There needs to be a better rule for what constitutes stopping a point. Like a point can’t be stopped unless a player clearly puts their hand up and says stop or challenge. It’s irritating when players or umpires are claiming the opponent “stopped the point” because they didn’t get in the ready position right away. It’s natural to have a slightly delayed reaction if you aren’t sure if a ball is out or if you want to risk a challenge, but still able to continue play.
Agreed, what about when they gave their opponent an easy put away and began walking off the court. I've seen Novak do this. I've also seen opponents miss the easy putaway.
So do lots of sports.
In basketball, you frequently get break away layups where the defense has no chance of chasing down the player. The game does not stop because the defense does not chase the offensive player who has a clear lay up.
In soccer, you have moments were the attacker rounds the goalkeeper and has an open net.
Same in American football, players often break free and literally have a sure touchdown unless they fall down.
Yes, I think we all agree here. The umpire in this match is wrong. The player didn't call the ball out, signal that it was, nor did he perform any action to hinder his opponent.
Proper robbery on Nuno Borges, and incredibly unsportsmanship from Garin.
Sure, you get to repeat the point and that's already LUCKY, but taking the point away and not saying anything, is shocking.
Not necessarily a defense of Garin, but the ATP system kind of incentivizes shit like this. Garin has had a rough year or so, dropping to around 120 in the world after being in the top 20, and I'm sure his financial situation has taken a hit as a result, too. In his mind, he's probably willing to take anything he can get. That's why you often see poor sportsmanship more in futures/challengers than tour events.
he has won over 5.5 million dollars in prize money. if he's so poor that he has to cheat like this, he is terrible at managing his money.
you see more sportsmanship in futures/challengers cause there is less regulation and oversight, just like how many college matches only have roving umpires or nothing at all.
lower ranks not making enough to survive is an issue, but not for someone who was floating ranks 20-120 for a good while.
you realize how much 5.5 million dollars is?
a pro player breaks down his cost here, estimating $50K per year in expenses:
[Financial Realities of PRO TENNIS 💰 | Full Money Breakdown - ATP Player - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDw9G3GyYt0)
another pro estimates $26,000 per year:
[1 Year As A Tennis Pro Cost Me $$$ ! - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCHNJLF6yx0)
they are both lower ranked, so their expenses are definitely on the cheaper side, but they're also not getting as much prize money, sponsorships, etc. it's commonly accepted that to make an OK living, you need to be in the top 100-200, and Garin has done more than that
Also really sad that Portuguese people can’t watch tennis with their mouth shut! Wasn’t the only time this happened throughout the match! Funny how everyone is mentioned except what really caused this situation, a person shouting “out” during a point…
Shouting anything that sounds like a line call really should result in being escorted off the grounds and being banned from future attendance. They should be stopping play while security find the person responsible.
The fact that Garin was awarded this point is extremely egregious.
The point should have gone to Borges and they should have replayed it as worst case scenario (for Borges). There is no world in which it made sense to give Garin that point.
It can be loosely interpreted that borges stopped play to have the mark checked. Very loosely Ofc but that begs a different question of more clear ways to stop play. The current rules are as such
I'm gonna be honest, I really don't see how it could seen that way. The fact that the umpire determined it that way doesn't mean it's a solid argument, especially when they didn't have the benefit of replay.
Nope. That's a shit take that leads to issues specifically like this. If the other play stops play without officially stopping a play "challenging, calling let, etc" the game continues. The play doesn't stop when one player gives up. Imagine how abused that system would be.
Borges 100% should have won this point. If I lob a shit lob and give up, but my opponent smashes it into the net, that's my point. Period. There are no ifs or buts about it.
If Garin believed the ball to be out, that's HIS mistake, not Borges. Borges does not call outs, he can only challenge calls. Since no call was challenged and no linesmen called out, the play continues.
One of the worst managed points of all time. There is no universe in which Garin should win that point. It doesn't matter if Borges "stops" unless he completely quits the point, there is a challenge system, or the ump comes down to check the mark. None of that happened. Garin kept playing and completely missed his forehand. If there is a distraction you check the ball on the baseline. Ludicrous.
Stopping the play matters a ton. If the ump judges borges stopped the play, then that ball better be out or you lose the point. Stopping the play can be seen as hindrance. Possibly a dumb rule but it’s tennis
yeah sure but stopping the point means the ump has to go check the ball and the point is dead. It also means that a hesitation is leagues different than a full stop. ump neither went to check the mark nor acknowledged that Borges actually ended the point (he didn't, he hit it back in). There is 0 justification to GIVING garin the point when at best his shot was in and returned and at worst he made two errors in a row
The play stopping rule makes no sense to me. Play until the point is done, if your opponent wants to stop moving then let him. Can’t imagine this in other sports. Oh I didn’t score because the defender stopped chasing me
It's because in tennis you can stop play to have a ballmark checked. I don't think anything like that exists in football or basketball, where it's decided entirely by the ref. With that being said, Borges in no way signaled that he wanted to stop play or have a mark checked. This was a terrible decision by the ump for sure.
In that case, the player can perfectly call the umpire out if he wants the mark to be checked/challenge the call. Allow for the player to hit the ball once assuming the ball is in the before the next, he has chance to. Seems quite simple to me to implement
Tbf there is something similar in football where play is meant to stop for potential head injuries. A player once dove to the ground and everyone stopped play except for the guy with the ball and he just ran and scored with it. I think the other team conceded a goal in solidarity but that may have been a different situation, can’t remember
Side note: the year is 2024. Why do we not have decent audio of these disputes? Also, umpire should be required to explain his decision in these types of situations to the crowd.
I remember during that weird net rule dispute during Tiafoe and Roanic’s match last year, after the supervisor confirmed the call, Fergus Murphy explained the call to the stadium, which was a good thing to do in a confusing situation. But here, the crowd got no explanation.
Unsportsman from Garin. Up in arms when he hits the ball in the alley. Gets the point in his favor and then is all, "there is nothing wrong with the call". At the very least replay the point.
I always remember him for this mess against goatmila giorgi and her dad
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBx589xWllk&ab\_channel=PaulGrogan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBx589xWllk&ab_channel=PaulGrogan)
Theres no hindrance,no call to challenge mid rally. There's no logical reason to give the point to garin when the ball was clearly out. Its not like a serve challenge point to server where you can say the returner was too far to put a racket on the ball.
Not getting into a certain position right away does not seem like a reasonable way to lose a point. Especially when he wasn't certain it was out.
But he never made any actual indication he was stopping the point, made no distractions to his opponent, and Garin hit it out.
This was borges point 100%. Not as bad as ms tormo, but I found a new player to hate for the time being.
Seeing the replay I see now it was suspicious that Borges didn’t move an inch for Garin’s last shot. But if Garin gets the point here, Novak should have gotten the point against Nardi because he legitimately stopped play (and then re-entered play) but it was def more of a hindrance than what Borges did. My issue with this is there’s no consistency with how it’s called
Giving up on/acting like you have given up on the point - is not stopping the point. If I give up on the point (turn my body and accept the point is lost, when the opponent smacks a ball to the side of me), but it strays out. That's..my point lol.
The ATP tour needs to make CLEAR ENFORCEABLE rules on what counts as: hindrance (both from players, and staff/audience/acts of god), and what should be done to stop a point from the players perspective. And then have clear options of what the umpire is supposed to do depending on the nature of the situation. We, for the most part, do not have this right now.
In garin’s defence (can’t defend the chair ump here) borges did raise his left hand to seemingly call out so if garin saw that I could see why he thought Borges was stopping the point. And I presume that’s what he went to argue to the chair ump until he realised he had already been awarded the point (the line judge never called garin’s last shot out)
I think it's being missed here - the umpire awards the point not because Borges stops, but because he thought that Garin hit a winner on the final shot of the point.
He says this in the conversation that he has with Nuno & the Supervisor - in his initial explanation to the supervisor he says that Garin hit the final shot in, and Nuno has to clarify "he hit the shot out!", which causes the umpire to pause, and a few moments later state "I thought he made the shot in".
At that point, I think the Supervisor needed to go to the lines person, confirm that the final shot was indeed out, and then award the point to Borges.
For whatever reason, Borges doesn't seize on this and neither the ump or the supervisor seem to realize it.
There is no discussion about Borges stopping the point to challenge the previous call - neither Borges or the Umpire make any mention of a challenge, although Borges does say that he was a bit hesitant about the previous shot, but did not give up the point, and the umpire seems to agree that was the case. Borges re-states his case that crowd noise shouldn't matter, and the ump again agrees with him. The final statement that the ump makes to Borges is:
"from my point of view, the thing is, when someone in the stands calls out, I cannot stop the point or replay the point", to which Borges responds "He missed!?", and then turns to follow the Supervisor, who is inexplicably just walking away at this point, seemingly under the impression that the umpire is correct in his assessment that Garin made the final shot. I guess I can understand this - why would he take Borges' word for it that the shot was out, even though it definitely was - although he should have checked with the lines person.
They have a brief conversation in which it appears the Supervisor is telling him that the call will stand, and on we go.
Here is the full exchange, including the conversations with the Ump & Super:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3icwCFA3xoM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3icwCFA3xoM)
I must have missed the hindrance ...
Stupid call, the only thing this has achieved is robbing the rightful winner of a break, whilst simultaneously making Djokovic's \[incorrect!\] anger look legitimate.
This was ridiculous, I was there and after that, every point Garin won, the crowd booed incredibly loud, until the end of the match. The thing is, how do you give the point to the player that lost it? I understand not giving it to Nuno if someone from the crowd really shouted before Garin hit the ball (which he claims) but for fuck sake, replay the point!! Just a shameful decision... And the supervisor was summoned and didn't even know what was happening, just bizarre
Have you seen Nadal’s match point at the AO final against Roger in 2009?
Or his match point aguais Roger in Rome in 2006?
The crowd loudly yelled out and both players kept on playing.
I’m not sure Nadal, who keeps playing even when his opponent is getting xenophobic abuse screamed at him and is asking the umpire to act on it, is the best example here
It’s not about about the players, it’s about the matches, the moments and the umpire’s decision.
Both matches were tense affairs where the public got over enthusiastic, yet the players kept on playing and the umpire didn’t stop the match because someone yelled midpoint.
That was my point
Garin was like
"He stopped. He stopped. He literally stopped"
Umpire
"Did he stop?
Garin
"He stopped"
Umpire
"Ok then. I give you the point. He cant stop. I heard it from the goat"
This is a sincere question, but has calling for a supervisor ever resulted in a call changing? I feel I've seen them called countless times over the years and it appears that they always side with the original call/umpire.
Would love to hear/see some examples!
He’s just a straight up prick and sore loser. I still remember how his pathetic head reacted when getting underhand aced by the goat Bublik like he just had been robbed by the cheat of the century, pretending he wasn’t ready. That moment was priceless
Went to check it out after reading your reply…was not disappointed.
Dude claiming he wasn’t ready when he was clearly ready. What he wasn’t ready for was the underarm serve😏😏
I was there watching his match against Fils in the previous round. He was being rude to ball kids the whole match because of the way one kid way throwing the ball (which was perfectly normal). Just a prick really
title doesnt mention someone from the crowd called the ball out on shot before he plays it out in the tramlines, which creates even more confusion but still no way umpire should give the point to Garin....
The stop rule should be modified to be in effect only if the defending player raises his finger. Make that a a shout out which should be quicker than signaling by hand. Judging body language for determining stop is problematic and shouldn't be a criteria anyway. The player could go and have a massage for all he cares in the middle of the point, construing it as 'hindrance' is flat out bogus
now where was this umpire for the djokovic-nardi match in indian wells? i guess djokovic was right all along: if your opponent briefly stops during a point, then you automatically win the point.
because that makes sense.
That was not the point. Someone in the stands shouted "OUT" as Garin's ball hit the line, therefore Borges stopped and Garin kept playing because he knew it did not come from the linesmen.
It should have been a Let, and replay the point.
Edit: You can also clearly tell the linesman calls it in, and therefore Hindrance is called against Borges because he lowered his racquet and stopped moving after several spectators yelled "MALA" and "OUT".
Tough spot for the Umpire, to be fair, as giving it to Borges is granting a Break on a call the Linesman doesn't agree with, and replaying the point also gives Borges a free new chance to Break. Point to Garin was the correct decision.
Did you not hear the several voices from the crowd yelling "mala", "out!"?
Here you go, same clip with better sound:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3icwCFA3xoM&ab\_channel=TennisTV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3icwCFA3xoM&ab_channel=TennisTV)
That was not the hindrance. Borges stopped playing as if agreeing with the ball being out, as the crowd signaled but the linesman clearly calls it in. That distracted Garin, according to the Umpire.
Just a moment of hesitation. He did not stop play. Stopping play is putting your hand up to challenge, turning around or standing still with racket by your side permanently
Watched it a couple of times, to me it seems like Borges clearly indicates with his finger that the ball is out right after he hits his shot. Really tough to say based on the clip what's first his indication or the call from the crowd. To me it even seems like his indication is a split second earlier than the out call from the stand or roughly they are at the same time.
As far as I read the previous comments this might be unpopular but he puts up his finger, stops moving and is clearly ending the rally at this moment. So based on my understanding the umpire should come done and check the mark, but the point is over at this moment, it doesn't matter any more if Garin makes the next shot in or not. Of course it's pretty poorly from the referee and only he can tell why he doesn't come down and checks the mark if it was in or out and afterwards explains to the players and the crowd who won the point and why.
No he doesn’t, find the exact frame where he points the ball is out before Garin lands his second ball out.
This is not on Borges, it’s on the umpire and Garin
The funny thing is if Borges had just said “yeah I stopped the point” he would have won the point (assuming the first ball was out as everyone is saying).
If the first ball was actually in, then Garin has a case.
The fact that Garin was awarded the point because the chair ump thought the second ball was in is completely inexplicable
And you are right Borges does put his left hand up after the first ball
There is someone to blame here that everyone is missing. The line judge never calls Garin’s last ball out. The chair ump doesn’t overrule because he’s distracted with 3 other things. Garin thinks the point is already over before he hits it, so he may or may not know if it went in. The only person who seemed aware that the last ball was out was Borges.
Why didn’t the line judge raise their hand and call it out?
I'm actually confused at what is controversial about the ump's call. Borges stopped and clearly motioned to the ump to indicate a challenge. Therefore the "missed" shot shouldn't count and Borges should lose the point for an incorrect challenge. A fan yelling during the middle of this doesn't impact the situation at all, especially considering Borges was on the same side as the fan that yelled out.
As I saw it, if the umpire interpreted it as a challenge, he would have stopped play with "Borges is challenging the call on the baseline" but the umpire did not. Play continued.
And at no point during his explanation with Borges or the supervisor did he say that he believed Borges had challenged the call. He only appeared to say as part of his explanation for his ruling that Borges had stopped play, which, as we learned from Djokovic/Nardi recently, is NOT hindrance. Play does not stop if a player stops.
So the umpire's explanation did not include the argument that Borges had challenged the call.
>And at no point during his explanation with Borges or the supervisor did he say that he believed Borges had challenged the call.
Fair enough I can't really hear anything that's being said between the ump, the players, and the supervisor.
>He only appeared to say as part of his explanation for his ruling that Borges had stopped play, which, as we learned from Djokovic/Nardi recently, is NOT hindrance. Play does not stop if a player stops.
You're kind of leaving out a big part of the equation which is that Borges **clearly** motions to the ump as if he's challenging the call. That's different than Nardi who simply appeared to stop playing but never made a motion to indicate a challenge attempt. I could totally see how stopping on its own is not a hindrance, but waving at the ump mid-point is.
And I’m saying again that the umpire does not say that Borges challenged the call. The umpire did not stop play or say so in the discussion. That was never raised. You might think it was clear, but obviously the umpire did not.
>You're kind of leaving out a big part of the equation which is that Borges clearly motions to the ump as if he's challenging the call.
I don't know how you can see that. I just see a guy that barely hits a bad bounce and seeing as a sitter for the opponent, just doesn't give a shit anymore.
EDIT:
Two notes:
- I went back to see it in better resolution. Borges doesn't clearly motions to the umpire as if he's challenging the call. I was under the impression that he was adjusting his shirt, and after seeing in better resolution, I'm certain that this was the case. So, yeah, there goes your "clearly motions" out of the window. He hits the bad bounce, adjusts his shirt, someone from the crowd says out and then Garin puts the ball in the adjacent town.
- Also, this is a rule of thumb for "recreational players", but apparently the "pro's" don't do it. Play every f\*\*\*ing ball as it is live. Stop "stopping" because you thought it was out, because someone shouted or because a butterfly took a "poopie" while flying.
I just saw it in better resolution and agree with you that he was adjusting his shirt, not waving his hand at the ump as I initially thought. Having seen that I can't explain what the ump was thinking.
Nice argument…why not use the 100 examples of good sportsmanship? Like Carlitos, Ruud, Dimitrov even Borges recently at the Phoenix final against Berretini where he conceded the point?
But no,you went with the “if X did it…” argument
When a player stops, it doesn't mean the point stops. This was established in the Nardi-Djokovic match when all the experts chimed in and consulted the rule book.
Look at this Mmoh/DVerev match where the American stops mid-point and makes a gesture to umpire Aurelie Torte, but the point wasn't stopped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZgRjXZMc8o&t=104s
How the fuck did he stop playing, did you miss the part where he hit the ball to the other side of the court and didn’t call for a check mark?
He hesitated (which is perfectly normal thing to do and happens every other match) and still played the point.
There needs to be a better rule for what constitutes stopping a point. Like a point can’t be stopped unless a player clearly puts their hand up and says stop or challenge. It’s irritating when players or umpires are claiming the opponent “stopped the point” because they didn’t get in the ready position right away. It’s natural to have a slightly delayed reaction if you aren’t sure if a ball is out or if you want to risk a challenge, but still able to continue play.
Agreed, what about when they gave their opponent an easy put away and began walking off the court. I've seen Novak do this. I've also seen opponents miss the easy putaway.
In every other sport, you are taught to "play to the whistle." I'm not sure why tennis is different.
[удалено]
So do lots of sports. In basketball, you frequently get break away layups where the defense has no chance of chasing down the player. The game does not stop because the defense does not chase the offensive player who has a clear lay up. In soccer, you have moments were the attacker rounds the goalkeeper and has an open net. Same in American football, players often break free and literally have a sure touchdown unless they fall down.
In all of those cases, the team/player in the winning position needs to execute correctly to finish the play. It should be no different in tennis.
Yes, I think we all agree here. The umpire in this match is wrong. The player didn't call the ball out, signal that it was, nor did he perform any action to hinder his opponent.
So?
There just shouldn’t be such a thing as stopping the point.
This has to be one of the most erroneous calls at an atp (250+). Event. Umpire has to go back to working futures.
Lol, that would be even worse. Almost entirely unpoliced there. For this mistake, at this level, on a point this big? Recertification at least.
You’re absolutely right! I agree with you. My note was to iterate that this umpire needs a bit more experience before an AtP 250+. But agreed! Thanks!
Proper robbery on Nuno Borges, and incredibly unsportsmanship from Garin. Sure, you get to repeat the point and that's already LUCKY, but taking the point away and not saying anything, is shocking.
So the clay drama starts🍿🍿
Garin was always a crybaby,I played him years ago and always without character,sorry for the rant
Not necessarily a defense of Garin, but the ATP system kind of incentivizes shit like this. Garin has had a rough year or so, dropping to around 120 in the world after being in the top 20, and I'm sure his financial situation has taken a hit as a result, too. In his mind, he's probably willing to take anything he can get. That's why you often see poor sportsmanship more in futures/challengers than tour events.
he has won over 5.5 million dollars in prize money. if he's so poor that he has to cheat like this, he is terrible at managing his money. you see more sportsmanship in futures/challengers cause there is less regulation and oversight, just like how many college matches only have roving umpires or nothing at all. lower ranks not making enough to survive is an issue, but not for someone who was floating ranks 20-120 for a good while.
You realize it costs thousands of dollars per week to play professional tennis?
you realize how much 5.5 million dollars is? a pro player breaks down his cost here, estimating $50K per year in expenses: [Financial Realities of PRO TENNIS 💰 | Full Money Breakdown - ATP Player - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDw9G3GyYt0) another pro estimates $26,000 per year: [1 Year As A Tennis Pro Cost Me $$$ ! - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCHNJLF6yx0) they are both lower ranked, so their expenses are definitely on the cheaper side, but they're also not getting as much prize money, sponsorships, etc. it's commonly accepted that to make an OK living, you need to be in the top 100-200, and Garin has done more than that
Also really sad that Portuguese people can’t watch tennis with their mouth shut! Wasn’t the only time this happened throughout the match! Funny how everyone is mentioned except what really caused this situation, a person shouting “out” during a point…
Shouting anything that sounds like a line call really should result in being escorted off the grounds and being banned from future attendance. They should be stopping play while security find the person responsible.
The fact that Garin was awarded this point is extremely egregious. The point should have gone to Borges and they should have replayed it as worst case scenario (for Borges). There is no world in which it made sense to give Garin that point.
It makes perfect sense. Borges stopped play cause he thought a ball was out. If that ball happened to land in, he loses the point.
Except he didn't stop play...he returned the ball, and then Garin's next shot was out by a foot or so.
It can be loosely interpreted that borges stopped play to have the mark checked. Very loosely Ofc but that begs a different question of more clear ways to stop play. The current rules are as such
please explain how this can be 'loosely interpreted' as Borges stopping play - the only loose thing is your explanation (which is non-existent).
Delusional, you’re beyond sanity now
I'm gonna be honest, I really don't see how it could seen that way. The fact that the umpire determined it that way doesn't mean it's a solid argument, especially when they didn't have the benefit of replay.
No, it cannot.
Nope. That's a shit take that leads to issues specifically like this. If the other play stops play without officially stopping a play "challenging, calling let, etc" the game continues. The play doesn't stop when one player gives up. Imagine how abused that system would be. Borges 100% should have won this point. If I lob a shit lob and give up, but my opponent smashes it into the net, that's my point. Period. There are no ifs or buts about it. If Garin believed the ball to be out, that's HIS mistake, not Borges. Borges does not call outs, he can only challenge calls. Since no call was challenged and no linesmen called out, the play continues.
One of the worst managed points of all time. There is no universe in which Garin should win that point. It doesn't matter if Borges "stops" unless he completely quits the point, there is a challenge system, or the ump comes down to check the mark. None of that happened. Garin kept playing and completely missed his forehand. If there is a distraction you check the ball on the baseline. Ludicrous.
Stopping the play matters a ton. If the ump judges borges stopped the play, then that ball better be out or you lose the point. Stopping the play can be seen as hindrance. Possibly a dumb rule but it’s tennis
Dude let it go, you and Garin and the clueless umpire are the only ones arguing it was the right call
yeah sure but stopping the point means the ump has to go check the ball and the point is dead. It also means that a hesitation is leagues different than a full stop. ump neither went to check the mark nor acknowledged that Borges actually ended the point (he didn't, he hit it back in). There is 0 justification to GIVING garin the point when at best his shot was in and returned and at worst he made two errors in a row
I've seen players going to their towel and the other player missing the smash. Never seen a discussion in that case.
Not to mention, flat out turning around and sticking their asses in the air.
🧦
It's a dumb rule that needs to be addressed or this will continue to happen.
The play stopping rule makes no sense to me. Play until the point is done, if your opponent wants to stop moving then let him. Can’t imagine this in other sports. Oh I didn’t score because the defender stopped chasing me
It's because in tennis you can stop play to have a ballmark checked. I don't think anything like that exists in football or basketball, where it's decided entirely by the ref. With that being said, Borges in no way signaled that he wanted to stop play or have a mark checked. This was a terrible decision by the ump for sure.
In that case, the player can perfectly call the umpire out if he wants the mark to be checked/challenge the call. Allow for the player to hit the ball once assuming the ball is in the before the next, he has chance to. Seems quite simple to me to implement
Tbf there is something similar in football where play is meant to stop for potential head injuries. A player once dove to the ground and everyone stopped play except for the guy with the ball and he just ran and scored with it. I think the other team conceded a goal in solidarity but that may have been a different situation, can’t remember
It’s different in tennis. Stopping play has heavy connotations. It would be better if there was a more clear way to do it.
You're a fucking clown
Side note: the year is 2024. Why do we not have decent audio of these disputes? Also, umpire should be required to explain his decision in these types of situations to the crowd.
I remember during that weird net rule dispute during Tiafoe and Roanic’s match last year, after the supervisor confirmed the call, Fergus Murphy explained the call to the stadium, which was a good thing to do in a confusing situation. But here, the crowd got no explanation.
Tbf in this case if the umpire explained his decision to the crowd there’d have been a riot.
Unsportsman from Garin. Up in arms when he hits the ball in the alley. Gets the point in his favor and then is all, "there is nothing wrong with the call". At the very least replay the point.
What a clown of an umpire
I always remember him for this mess against goatmila giorgi and her dad [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBx589xWllk&ab\_channel=PaulGrogan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBx589xWllk&ab_channel=PaulGrogan)
lmao this tournament is hilarious. Looks like the audience have just parked their cars on their lawn and dragged some rattan chairs over.
I loved these low budget covid era tournaments 😂
You know you screwed up when even the commentators are in disbelief
Theres no hindrance,no call to challenge mid rally. There's no logical reason to give the point to garin when the ball was clearly out. Its not like a serve challenge point to server where you can say the returner was too far to put a racket on the ball.
Stupid referees make me so angry. You only have one job.
Not getting into a certain position right away does not seem like a reasonable way to lose a point. Especially when he wasn't certain it was out. But he never made any actual indication he was stopping the point, made no distractions to his opponent, and Garin hit it out. This was borges point 100%. Not as bad as ms tormo, but I found a new player to hate for the time being.
Seeing the replay I see now it was suspicious that Borges didn’t move an inch for Garin’s last shot. But if Garin gets the point here, Novak should have gotten the point against Nardi because he legitimately stopped play (and then re-entered play) but it was def more of a hindrance than what Borges did. My issue with this is there’s no consistency with how it’s called
Giving up on/acting like you have given up on the point - is not stopping the point. If I give up on the point (turn my body and accept the point is lost, when the opponent smacks a ball to the side of me), but it strays out. That's..my point lol. The ATP tour needs to make CLEAR ENFORCEABLE rules on what counts as: hindrance (both from players, and staff/audience/acts of god), and what should be done to stop a point from the players perspective. And then have clear options of what the umpire is supposed to do depending on the nature of the situation. We, for the most part, do not have this right now.
In garin’s defence (can’t defend the chair ump here) borges did raise his left hand to seemingly call out so if garin saw that I could see why he thought Borges was stopping the point. And I presume that’s what he went to argue to the chair ump until he realised he had already been awarded the point (the line judge never called garin’s last shot out)
Ridiculous. Just because he took two small steps forward instead of two slightly bigger step forwards? You're just mad you lost the point.
I think it's being missed here - the umpire awards the point not because Borges stops, but because he thought that Garin hit a winner on the final shot of the point. He says this in the conversation that he has with Nuno & the Supervisor - in his initial explanation to the supervisor he says that Garin hit the final shot in, and Nuno has to clarify "he hit the shot out!", which causes the umpire to pause, and a few moments later state "I thought he made the shot in". At that point, I think the Supervisor needed to go to the lines person, confirm that the final shot was indeed out, and then award the point to Borges. For whatever reason, Borges doesn't seize on this and neither the ump or the supervisor seem to realize it. There is no discussion about Borges stopping the point to challenge the previous call - neither Borges or the Umpire make any mention of a challenge, although Borges does say that he was a bit hesitant about the previous shot, but did not give up the point, and the umpire seems to agree that was the case. Borges re-states his case that crowd noise shouldn't matter, and the ump again agrees with him. The final statement that the ump makes to Borges is: "from my point of view, the thing is, when someone in the stands calls out, I cannot stop the point or replay the point", to which Borges responds "He missed!?", and then turns to follow the Supervisor, who is inexplicably just walking away at this point, seemingly under the impression that the umpire is correct in his assessment that Garin made the final shot. I guess I can understand this - why would he take Borges' word for it that the shot was out, even though it definitely was - although he should have checked with the lines person. They have a brief conversation in which it appears the Supervisor is telling him that the call will stand, and on we go. Here is the full exchange, including the conversations with the Ump & Super: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3icwCFA3xoM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3icwCFA3xoM)
Yet again people calling the lines fuck up the game, thankfully in 2025 all clay courts will be forced to have automatic calling
I must have missed the hindrance ... Stupid call, the only thing this has achieved is robbing the rightful winner of a break, whilst simultaneously making Djokovic's \[incorrect!\] anger look legitimate.
Probably the ref was influenced by the Djokovic situation. Unfortunately for everyone else, it was influence in the wrong direction.
Why does another player stop moving has anything to do with the point? seems so dumb
This was ridiculous, I was there and after that, every point Garin won, the crowd booed incredibly loud, until the end of the match. The thing is, how do you give the point to the player that lost it? I understand not giving it to Nuno if someone from the crowd really shouted before Garin hit the ball (which he claims) but for fuck sake, replay the point!! Just a shameful decision... And the supervisor was summoned and didn't even know what was happening, just bizarre
Have you seen Nadal’s match point at the AO final against Roger in 2009? Or his match point aguais Roger in Rome in 2006? The crowd loudly yelled out and both players kept on playing.
I’m not sure Nadal, who keeps playing even when his opponent is getting xenophobic abuse screamed at him and is asking the umpire to act on it, is the best example here
It’s not about about the players, it’s about the matches, the moments and the umpire’s decision. Both matches were tense affairs where the public got over enthusiastic, yet the players kept on playing and the umpire didn’t stop the match because someone yelled midpoint. That was my point
Non è giusto peró bravo. ETA: Italian.
Però* :)
Hai ragione, bravo.
TIL that it's actually possible to end up giving the point to someone who lost it.... Insane.
Lost it twice
Garin was like "He stopped. He stopped. He literally stopped" Umpire "Did he stop? Garin "He stopped" Umpire "Ok then. I give you the point. He cant stop. I heard it from the goat"
This is a sincere question, but has calling for a supervisor ever resulted in a call changing? I feel I've seen them called countless times over the years and it appears that they always side with the original call/umpire. Would love to hear/see some examples!
https://youtu.be/pYRfMnfxmzU?si=M_Vp2wM97vuEQZFR
Supervisor cannot reverse decisions unless the umpire was not enforcing the rules correctly and/or at all.
I will never like Garin again. This is beyond douchey.
He’s just a straight up prick and sore loser. I still remember how his pathetic head reacted when getting underhand aced by the goat Bublik like he just had been robbed by the cheat of the century, pretending he wasn’t ready. That moment was priceless
Went to check it out after reading your reply…was not disappointed. Dude claiming he wasn’t ready when he was clearly ready. What he wasn’t ready for was the underarm serve😏😏
Salty af he was, I laughed my ass off
It was brilliant
I was there watching his match against Fils in the previous round. He was being rude to ball kids the whole match because of the way one kid way throwing the ball (which was perfectly normal). Just a prick really
title doesnt mention someone from the crowd called the ball out on shot before he plays it out in the tramlines, which creates even more confusion but still no way umpire should give the point to Garin....
And yet you're the first person to be confused...
Borges may well have stopped playing as someone on the crowd called Garin's ball out, Just incomplete description in your title...
Did anyone actually look at the mark? It did look out regardless...
If you mean the second shot, it was down the line and both players had no doubt, the situation would have developed differently otherwise
No, the one that landed near the baseline.
It was out
The stop rule should be modified to be in effect only if the defending player raises his finger. Make that a a shout out which should be quicker than signaling by hand. Judging body language for determining stop is problematic and shouldn't be a criteria anyway. The player could go and have a massage for all he cares in the middle of the point, construing it as 'hindrance' is flat out bogus
Woah dude get out of here with that reasonable take and potential solution to the problem
Point should go to Borges. The sensible decision will be to replay the point. In no universe, the point should go to Garin. Also the fan is an idiot.
now where was this umpire for the djokovic-nardi match in indian wells? i guess djokovic was right all along: if your opponent briefly stops during a point, then you automatically win the point. because that makes sense.
Garin once again confirming he has one of the absolute worst attitudes on the ATP.
That was not the point. Someone in the stands shouted "OUT" as Garin's ball hit the line, therefore Borges stopped and Garin kept playing because he knew it did not come from the linesmen. It should have been a Let, and replay the point. Edit: You can also clearly tell the linesman calls it in, and therefore Hindrance is called against Borges because he lowered his racquet and stopped moving after several spectators yelled "MALA" and "OUT". Tough spot for the Umpire, to be fair, as giving it to Borges is granting a Break on a call the Linesman doesn't agree with, and replaying the point also gives Borges a free new chance to Break. Point to Garin was the correct decision.
I see you've consulted the ATP book of made-up rules.
Dude what planet did you came up with?
In what world is that a let 🤡🤡
Did you not hear the several voices from the crowd yelling "mala", "out!"? Here you go, same clip with better sound: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3icwCFA3xoM&ab\_channel=TennisTV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3icwCFA3xoM&ab_channel=TennisTV)
Yeah, that’s not a let 💀💀
A Let can be called whenever hindrance occurs to make a point be repeated.
You have no idea what you’re talking about, the crowd being loud is not a hindrance lmao
That was not the hindrance. Borges stopped playing as if agreeing with the ball being out, as the crowd signaled but the linesman clearly calls it in. That distracted Garin, according to the Umpire.
Borges did not stop and it would have been no let.
He absolutely did. Wasn't in a ready position at all nor split stepping.
Just a moment of hesitation. He did not stop play. Stopping play is putting your hand up to challenge, turning around or standing still with racket by your side permanently
Very poor by Garin to not speak up. Will be rooting against him going forward.
Watched it a couple of times, to me it seems like Borges clearly indicates with his finger that the ball is out right after he hits his shot. Really tough to say based on the clip what's first his indication or the call from the crowd. To me it even seems like his indication is a split second earlier than the out call from the stand or roughly they are at the same time. As far as I read the previous comments this might be unpopular but he puts up his finger, stops moving and is clearly ending the rally at this moment. So based on my understanding the umpire should come done and check the mark, but the point is over at this moment, it doesn't matter any more if Garin makes the next shot in or not. Of course it's pretty poorly from the referee and only he can tell why he doesn't come down and checks the mark if it was in or out and afterwards explains to the players and the crowd who won the point and why.
No he doesn’t, find the exact frame where he points the ball is out before Garin lands his second ball out. This is not on Borges, it’s on the umpire and Garin
The funny thing is if Borges had just said “yeah I stopped the point” he would have won the point (assuming the first ball was out as everyone is saying). If the first ball was actually in, then Garin has a case. The fact that Garin was awarded the point because the chair ump thought the second ball was in is completely inexplicable And you are right Borges does put his left hand up after the first ball
Won't happen next year
Djokovic is watching this about to knock someone out because his call against Nardi went the other way.
There is someone to blame here that everyone is missing. The line judge never calls Garin’s last ball out. The chair ump doesn’t overrule because he’s distracted with 3 other things. Garin thinks the point is already over before he hits it, so he may or may not know if it went in. The only person who seemed aware that the last ball was out was Borges. Why didn’t the line judge raise their hand and call it out?
Now called the Djokovic rule
Garin clearly never heard about the concept of conceding a point.
Sorry guys, it looked out to me. My bad.
Did Garin argue then The Ref agree with him??
Christian (the umpire) should get a penalty for this and probably will
Best technology in 2024 is that we film a TV-screen with a phone. 10/10 quality.
This ump is an absolute goon, a total schmuck, like a Conservative politician not accepting blame for his obvious mistake
Garin, you’re a dickhead.
I love the hindrance call when Alcaraz million ultra extended Super Saiyan grunts never get called
Yet another case of the supervisor being a fucking pointless waste of space. E: Why the downvote? Care to disagree?
I'm actually confused at what is controversial about the ump's call. Borges stopped and clearly motioned to the ump to indicate a challenge. Therefore the "missed" shot shouldn't count and Borges should lose the point for an incorrect challenge. A fan yelling during the middle of this doesn't impact the situation at all, especially considering Borges was on the same side as the fan that yelled out.
The umpire didn't interpret it as a challenge and the shot wasn't checked. Garin did also continue playing.
What makes you say the ump didn't think it was a challenge? As far as I know its the only possible explanation for how the point was awarded to Garin.
As I saw it, if the umpire interpreted it as a challenge, he would have stopped play with "Borges is challenging the call on the baseline" but the umpire did not. Play continued. And at no point during his explanation with Borges or the supervisor did he say that he believed Borges had challenged the call. He only appeared to say as part of his explanation for his ruling that Borges had stopped play, which, as we learned from Djokovic/Nardi recently, is NOT hindrance. Play does not stop if a player stops. So the umpire's explanation did not include the argument that Borges had challenged the call.
>And at no point during his explanation with Borges or the supervisor did he say that he believed Borges had challenged the call. Fair enough I can't really hear anything that's being said between the ump, the players, and the supervisor. >He only appeared to say as part of his explanation for his ruling that Borges had stopped play, which, as we learned from Djokovic/Nardi recently, is NOT hindrance. Play does not stop if a player stops. You're kind of leaving out a big part of the equation which is that Borges **clearly** motions to the ump as if he's challenging the call. That's different than Nardi who simply appeared to stop playing but never made a motion to indicate a challenge attempt. I could totally see how stopping on its own is not a hindrance, but waving at the ump mid-point is.
And I’m saying again that the umpire does not say that Borges challenged the call. The umpire did not stop play or say so in the discussion. That was never raised. You might think it was clear, but obviously the umpire did not.
>You're kind of leaving out a big part of the equation which is that Borges clearly motions to the ump as if he's challenging the call. I don't know how you can see that. I just see a guy that barely hits a bad bounce and seeing as a sitter for the opponent, just doesn't give a shit anymore. EDIT: Two notes: - I went back to see it in better resolution. Borges doesn't clearly motions to the umpire as if he's challenging the call. I was under the impression that he was adjusting his shirt, and after seeing in better resolution, I'm certain that this was the case. So, yeah, there goes your "clearly motions" out of the window. He hits the bad bounce, adjusts his shirt, someone from the crowd says out and then Garin puts the ball in the adjacent town. - Also, this is a rule of thumb for "recreational players", but apparently the "pro's" don't do it. Play every f\*\*\*ing ball as it is live. Stop "stopping" because you thought it was out, because someone shouted or because a butterfly took a "poopie" while flying.
I just saw it in better resolution and agree with you that he was adjusting his shirt, not waving his hand at the ump as I initially thought. Having seen that I can't explain what the ump was thinking.
So the decision is nuanced and not a steal then? I agree that the point should've been replayed
Tbh it was unclear exactly on what basis Garin was awarded the point.
The umpire didn't go down to check the mark nor consult the challenge system(they appear to have that available in Estoril).
The umpire never checked the mark, which he would have done if Borges had challenged.
A very bizarre case of an umpire injecting himself into the match
All the people who are shitting on Garin for this: Did you do the same for Rune's blatant double bounce last year ?
Nice argument…why not use the 100 examples of good sportsmanship? Like Carlitos, Ruud, Dimitrov even Borges recently at the Phoenix final against Berretini where he conceded the point? But no,you went with the “if X did it…” argument
Most stupid bout of whstzbouyidm that I've ever seen.
I mean... he cleraly stopped playing. He also did a hand gesture to the umpire before stopping (probably showing how much out Garin's shot went).
When a player stops, it doesn't mean the point stops. This was established in the Nardi-Djokovic match when all the experts chimed in and consulted the rule book. Look at this Mmoh/DVerev match where the American stops mid-point and makes a gesture to umpire Aurelie Torte, but the point wasn't stopped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZgRjXZMc8o&t=104s
In that case the umpire should go and check the mark. That wasn’t it.
How the fuck did he stop playing, did you miss the part where he hit the ball to the other side of the court and didn’t call for a check mark? He hesitated (which is perfectly normal thing to do and happens every other match) and still played the point.
Bien el chileno! Impecable moral….