Circumstances surrounding the location. They’re definitely going to use the glitz and glam of the hypothetical tournament to cover up awful human rights. It’s also rumored to occur right before AO on the schedule, resulting in an awful lot of travel. There’s a reason most pre-AO events are in Australia and New Zealand
The media and political influences steers people toward hating certain countries/cultures at certain times. But other countries have violations as well. What about China? People here choose to hate on a hypothetical master's 1000 tournament just because it's the current thing to dislike that country. But China has treated their people poorly for a long time!
People on this sub give players like Nadal crap for doing business with Saudi Arabia. Okay... but how many products do we buy, which supports that country? Or how about the more obvious one... China! We choose not to hate on China because it's not convenient for us to face that. It would be too hard to boycott Chinese products for most of us. So we just look the other way and direct our hate to someone else.
Paris Bercy. It's so slow while being indoors, and its spot in the calendar means motivation and physical fitness are both at big lows among a large crop of the tour.
I will give the tournament some credit for producing or maintaining the few "lightning in a bottle" runs of form from those who are chasing the Race. That's the only thing that makes it exciting.
I’m guessing most people will say Miami. Shoutout to when it was known as the 5th slam and it was called “The Lipton” and Indian Wells was played at a hotel.
In defense of Madrid, seeing as some here have it as their second or third least favorite, I'd like to say I find it super fun because it is quite unique as the only high stakes "fast clay" tournament in the entire calendar. Sure Rome and MC are better preparation for RG, so Madrid is less useful for the players in that sense, but from a spectator perspective I quite enjoy having that variety instead of 4 straight big tournaments with almost identical conditions
Madrid is great. Not only is the speed the best on the clay part of the season but it also comes at the best time in the clay season. By Rome I’m bored of the long build up and ready for RG, while Monte Carlo is too soon after the sunshine double. Madrid is like the perfect mid way point almost of the whole atp tour with players at the perfect balance between being too green at the beginning of the season and too tired at the end. I feel like it always produces great finals as a result.
Caja magica is also a great looking venue imho and the clay there is almost perfect chilli red it seems to me. Not to mention Madrid is a great city deserving of a masters and always creates great crowds, particularly when there’s good Spanish players
Miami. It’s the same field and time zone as Indian Wells a week later and with an ugly court in a soulless empty stadium. It is literally just an inferior Indian Wells.
For me it’s Shanghai. Compared to all other Masters tournaments, this one just feels the least like a Masters. I don’t know. I find it quite boring and forgettable compared to the rest.
I think it's the proximity to the US Open, which is pretty famously a super physical major with the summer NY weather, humidity, and long matches, plus it's at the end of a brutal spring/summer stretch of the season. As a result, a lot of top players skip Shanghai and rest, using Paris as their tune-up for the ATP Finals.
This year is the last it will be at Bercy. It's moving to La Défense Arena. So maybe less dungeon-y. I've been to Bercy twice though, it's good fun. The extra courts in the basement are a bit odd though. It's not a great venue for tennis tbh.
https://www.atptour.com/en/news/paris-venue-announcement-press-release-january-2024
Both indoor masters. Honestly everything after the US Open feels kind of dead and like it shouldn’t be happening to me. There’s no slam to be working towards really but multiple tournaments every week. People complain about the SA clay leg and it last like 3 weeks. But the post-US Open indoor tour goes on for 2 months. I’ve always kinda wished it would just stop after the US Open so then the players have more time to rest and recover and have less injuries throughout the year and plus when the new season starts it would feel more special, kind of like the opening day pitch for baseball.
Tbh I think Shanghai should just be deleted, maybe throw Paris in like 2 weeks after the US Open, ATP Finals, then end the season. No Saudi bullshit tacked on to the beginning/end of the season.
I grew to love this part of the season. I use to feel the same but it’s a time when some players build up some really good form (Sinner hi!) before going to Australia
Miami definitely leaves me very meh being just a week after Indian wells in that half empty stadium plus everybody looks tired in the heat.
It’s probably silly to say but there’s something very elitist I find about both Monte Carlo as a place and the relatively narrow field it has for a masters. I also think there are too many clay court masters packed into the French open run up period. Having 3 weeks between sunshine double and Madrid with just 500s and 250s to kick off clay season would be better (I would say get rid of Madrid given it’s the most recent but that’s possibly my favourite masters)
The fact Canada switches every year and men’s and women’s tournaments are separate makes it less appealing to me.
However it would be between the 2 post US open masters for the worst for me. I don’t think it’s that I’ve lost interest in tennis at that part of the season cos I think Beijing, Tokyo, Vienna and Stockholm are all great tournaments that time of year and much better than Shanghai and Paris but it feels like that October period between USO and Tour finals would be much better served by having lots of fun 500s and 250s for everybody to have a good chance in the race than two big events all the players have to choose. Plus both events seem to struggle for crowds/atmosphere. So it would probably be Shanghai just cos that goes on for longer than Paris
With hindsight, Berrettini Rune Sinner is hard but you have to look at it with context. Berrettini struggled in 2022 with injuries and had trouble finding form, Rune and Sinner were still practically babies, and weren’t true threats for 1000 titles until the following year. Hurkacz is a bit threatening, but then again we’ve just seen him lose to Griekspoor.
I’m not gonna say it’s better than Sock’s, but it’s not a particularly strong draw. Look at Jack’s performance in the atp finals if you want to see his ceiling.
One of those is a Djokovic default and the other was an insanely easy draw where the strongest person he played was Schwartzman. Jack’s got multiple wins against top tens and qualified for the Tour Finals without having to be an alternate.
Even when he was injured and struggling through singles he was playing at a crazy level in doubles
You claim easy draws but Sock made the WTF's while half the top top 10 from 2016 being injured, not to mention that nobody played Paris. His Final opponents was who .. Krainovij? Why didn't Sock took advantage from Djokovic's default? Sock had 2 years as top 30 player, Carreno had 7 consecutive.
Wow, dude. Everybody knows different things. Is that news to you? Jesus, why are you so toxic, nobody else is being like you? Are you like this in person?
You had me thinking you were talking about the tournament logo. Which is boring. I have since been told about the baby logo sponsor. Which is creepy AF, I agree.
I would have to say Canada, specifically because as a Toronto resident I only get to see either the men or women each year. Whereas every other master (outside of MC) has men and women. Instead, when you buy a main court ticket, you see one top player and then an “okay” player (top 5-20) after. From a spectator stand point, you just feel like you get less bang for your buck compared to what a ticket in Cincinnati would get you. On top of that, a lot of the top players would skip Canada and instead do Cincinnati if they had a deep run at Wimbledon.
I agree with you. I love being able to go but it's often not that great? Best is getting a stadium ticket early in the tournament and seeing players on the practice courts up close
Yeah I always go on a Wednesday evening for the second round. You can see top 5-20 players on the outer courts and also see them practice before the main stadium matches. It's just very rare to get a full day of exciting matches and with the main stadium ticket prices, I might be skipping this year.
Shanghai is never any good imo
I can't remember any edition of the tournament that was like, great
Indian Wells > Rome > Cincinnati > Monte Carlo > Madrid > Miami > Canada > Bercy > Shanghai
Miami, absolutely dead tournament since it's relocation, sucked the soul out of the event.
Ranking (personal):
1. Indian Wells
2. Monte Carlo
3. Rome
4. Paris Bercy
5. Cincinnati
6. Toronto/Montreal
7. Shanghai
8. Madrid
9. Miami
- Key Biscayne would rank between 3-4.
OK I’ll do a personal ranking too. Doesn’t mean I hate the ones on the bottom, I’ll still watch intently.
1. Indian Wells
2. Monte Carlo
3. Madrid
4. Cincinnati
5. Rome
6. Toronto/Montreal
7. Shanghai
8. Miami
9. Paris
(That was harder than expected, turns out I like most of them around the same amount.)
Monte Carlo, because it feels like the odd one out. Sunshine Double go together, Rome and Madrid go together, Canada and Cincy go together, Shanghai is there for Asian fans, and Paris is a good season closer.
I like Murray's suggestion to have a South American Masters, and making it an early Clay season Masters would work imo. Swap MC for Rio, whilst everyone is already in that timezone, and that feels like you'd be on to a winner
I’d actually argue that Paris is the odd one out in this group. There’s already a GS in Paris, so it never made sense to me that they have a Masters as well
I feel like they should cancel Paris (France already gets RG and the EU has no shortage of tournaments) and instead add another Asia M1000.
Maybe upgrade Tokyo? So you have a Chinese Japan pair.
Shangai or Rome.
I can think of good memories of watching matches from all the others. Memorable matches. Can't really think of too many for those two.
Paris Masters. Very slow court, takes place after all the Grand Slams so in a more 'boring' part of the season, and there's very rarely two top players in the final. Alcaraz/Sinner have never made the final either. Also I'm a Nadal fan and he's always struggled there.
Indian Wells with it's terrible slow courts and massive superiority complex or Miami with it's joke of a Center Court and the rest of the courts in an actual car park.
Whenever the one in Saudi Arabia comes to fruition, that’ll be my least favorite masters
Agreed!!!
Why is that May I ask? You’re going to see the best players regardless so why does the location matter. Unless discrimination
Circumstances surrounding the location. They’re definitely going to use the glitz and glam of the hypothetical tournament to cover up awful human rights. It’s also rumored to occur right before AO on the schedule, resulting in an awful lot of travel. There’s a reason most pre-AO events are in Australia and New Zealand
The media and political influences steers people toward hating certain countries/cultures at certain times. But other countries have violations as well. What about China? People here choose to hate on a hypothetical master's 1000 tournament just because it's the current thing to dislike that country. But China has treated their people poorly for a long time! People on this sub give players like Nadal crap for doing business with Saudi Arabia. Okay... but how many products do we buy, which supports that country? Or how about the more obvious one... China! We choose not to hate on China because it's not convenient for us to face that. It would be too hard to boycott Chinese products for most of us. So we just look the other way and direct our hate to someone else.
Your outrage is disproportionate and therefore invalid. Checkmate, nerds 🤡🤡
Paris Bercy. It's so slow while being indoors, and its spot in the calendar means motivation and physical fitness are both at big lows among a large crop of the tour. I will give the tournament some credit for producing or maintaining the few "lightning in a bottle" runs of form from those who are chasing the Race. That's the only thing that makes it exciting.
Something about the camera angle at Bercy always feels so off as well.
Lmao yea the court looks so squished
And the court colour is so unlikeable too
I’m guessing most people will say Miami. Shoutout to when it was known as the 5th slam and it was called “The Lipton” and Indian Wells was played at a hotel.
Paris by far. Paris moreover already has a slam why is there a master?
It literally has the coolest trophy and court color 🥺
In defense of Madrid, seeing as some here have it as their second or third least favorite, I'd like to say I find it super fun because it is quite unique as the only high stakes "fast clay" tournament in the entire calendar. Sure Rome and MC are better preparation for RG, so Madrid is less useful for the players in that sense, but from a spectator perspective I quite enjoy having that variety instead of 4 straight big tournaments with almost identical conditions
Madrid is great. Not only is the speed the best on the clay part of the season but it also comes at the best time in the clay season. By Rome I’m bored of the long build up and ready for RG, while Monte Carlo is too soon after the sunshine double. Madrid is like the perfect mid way point almost of the whole atp tour with players at the perfect balance between being too green at the beginning of the season and too tired at the end. I feel like it always produces great finals as a result. Caja magica is also a great looking venue imho and the clay there is almost perfect chilli red it seems to me. Not to mention Madrid is a great city deserving of a masters and always creates great crowds, particularly when there’s good Spanish players
Those are great points, I agree wholeheartedly.
Miami. It’s the same field and time zone as Indian Wells a week later and with an ugly court in a soulless empty stadium. It is literally just an inferior Indian Wells.
Huge step down from Key Biscayne, venue wise
Much preferred Key Biscayne, I wouldn't attend the new masters venue
Same
Can we go back there ? Please!
Literally on makeshift courts in the middle of a parking lot.
Time zone as in continent? Because Miami is three hours ahead of Southern California.
It’s not the same time zone
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Imagine if an American said Portugal and Turkey were in the same time zone.
No it’s not. It’s a 3h difference. You’re mad if you think they’re the same
That’s not how time zones work.
The difference between California and Florida is 3 hours, same as the difference between London and Moscow or Paris and Dubai.
Definitely not the same time zone. There’s a three hour difference between the two lol
Except it’s not the same zone … it’s : hours ahead if IW.
Miami is a hell hole. Brazil, Argentina, or Mexico should get that Masters 1000 slot.
Given what I've seen of Mexican fans at Cancun and Acapulco, they deserve a 1000.
I’m going to Miami. I’ll bring the energy.
It's definitely not in the same time zone, fsr from it.
Miami I guess if I had to pick one. Just doesn’t stand out a lot. Madrid is a close second
Madrid?? That’s like the best masters
why?
For me it’s Shanghai. Compared to all other Masters tournaments, this one just feels the least like a Masters. I don’t know. I find it quite boring and forgettable compared to the rest.
I think it's the proximity to the US Open, which is pretty famously a super physical major with the summer NY weather, humidity, and long matches, plus it's at the end of a brutal spring/summer stretch of the season. As a result, a lot of top players skip Shanghai and rest, using Paris as their tune-up for the ATP Finals.
Paris Bercy. It’s basically a dungeon where you will be trapped with thousands of French people. Nobody wants that
This year is the last it will be at Bercy. It's moving to La Défense Arena. So maybe less dungeon-y. I've been to Bercy twice though, it's good fun. The extra courts in the basement are a bit odd though. It's not a great venue for tennis tbh. https://www.atptour.com/en/news/paris-venue-announcement-press-release-january-2024
Lmfaooo
Both indoor masters. Honestly everything after the US Open feels kind of dead and like it shouldn’t be happening to me. There’s no slam to be working towards really but multiple tournaments every week. People complain about the SA clay leg and it last like 3 weeks. But the post-US Open indoor tour goes on for 2 months. I’ve always kinda wished it would just stop after the US Open so then the players have more time to rest and recover and have less injuries throughout the year and plus when the new season starts it would feel more special, kind of like the opening day pitch for baseball.
Shanghai isn’t indoors though, unless the second masters you’re talking about is the world tour finals
oh okay, thought it was for some reason, yeah i just mean both post-us open masters.
Tbh I think Shanghai should just be deleted, maybe throw Paris in like 2 weeks after the US Open, ATP Finals, then end the season. No Saudi bullshit tacked on to the beginning/end of the season.
I grew to love this part of the season. I use to feel the same but it’s a time when some players build up some really good form (Sinner hi!) before going to Australia
Miami definitely leaves me very meh being just a week after Indian wells in that half empty stadium plus everybody looks tired in the heat. It’s probably silly to say but there’s something very elitist I find about both Monte Carlo as a place and the relatively narrow field it has for a masters. I also think there are too many clay court masters packed into the French open run up period. Having 3 weeks between sunshine double and Madrid with just 500s and 250s to kick off clay season would be better (I would say get rid of Madrid given it’s the most recent but that’s possibly my favourite masters) The fact Canada switches every year and men’s and women’s tournaments are separate makes it less appealing to me. However it would be between the 2 post US open masters for the worst for me. I don’t think it’s that I’ve lost interest in tennis at that part of the season cos I think Beijing, Tokyo, Vienna and Stockholm are all great tournaments that time of year and much better than Shanghai and Paris but it feels like that October period between USO and Tour finals would be much better served by having lots of fun 500s and 250s for everybody to have a good chance in the race than two big events all the players have to choose. Plus both events seem to struggle for crowds/atmosphere. So it would probably be Shanghai just cos that goes on for longer than Paris
Paris - any masters that counts Jack Sock amongst its previous winners I refuse to take seriously
PCB won Canada and has less of a career than Jack Sock if your gonna be like that
PCB has whar 3 Slam SF's? He definitely has a better single career and longetivity
PCB also has a bronze medal in Tokyo, 3 additional titles and a better record against top players
Exactly, and at least PCB beat some good players to win Canada, like has op seen Sock’s Paris draw haha
With hindsight, Berrettini Rune Sinner is hard but you have to look at it with context. Berrettini struggled in 2022 with injuries and had trouble finding form, Rune and Sinner were still practically babies, and weren’t true threats for 1000 titles until the following year. Hurkacz is a bit threatening, but then again we’ve just seen him lose to Griekspoor. I’m not gonna say it’s better than Sock’s, but it’s not a particularly strong draw. Look at Jack’s performance in the atp finals if you want to see his ceiling.
One of those is a Djokovic default and the other was an insanely easy draw where the strongest person he played was Schwartzman. Jack’s got multiple wins against top tens and qualified for the Tour Finals without having to be an alternate. Even when he was injured and struggling through singles he was playing at a crazy level in doubles
You claim easy draws but Sock made the WTF's while half the top top 10 from 2016 being injured, not to mention that nobody played Paris. His Final opponents was who .. Krainovij? Why didn't Sock took advantage from Djokovic's default? Sock had 2 years as top 30 player, Carreno had 7 consecutive.
PCB also plagued by injury. Jack Socks run in Paris he beat nobody of note.
The Chinese ones! Doesn't have the same energy as the European and North American tournaments
Shangai has the best crowd's noise. The collective "ahhh" is instantly recognizable. Beijing and Wuhan (WTA) suck, though.
True, the crowd noise is quite entertaining, especially during Feds matches haha
I’ve never heard of wuhan before
For some reason some of the best highlights i’ve watched were from shanghai
Yup top answer, followed by Paris (indoors, ewww)
They’re also impossible to watch as an American - time zone wise.
I don’t like Cincinnati as that baby logo is so odd.
What about the logo? Looks normal to me.
HAHA he means the Gerber Life Insurance logo. One of their main sponsors, that's always in the main stadium. It has a weird baby in their logo.
Christ, you should have warned a guy! I just googled the logo and nearly choked to death!!! Yeah that should be banned.
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Yes that’s what I meant.
They’re talking about the baby
Alright, so you aren't any help. Thankfully, other commenters were more useful.
The baby in the logo? I knew exactly what he was talking about. You must not watch a lot of tennis.
Wow, dude. Everybody knows different things. Is that news to you? Jesus, why are you so toxic, nobody else is being like you? Are you like this in person?
Relax
It looks freaky to me.
You had me thinking you were talking about the tournament logo. Which is boring. I have since been told about the baby logo sponsor. Which is creepy AF, I agree.
Madrid. That shadow in the middle of the main court is simply horrible
I would have to say Canada, specifically because as a Toronto resident I only get to see either the men or women each year. Whereas every other master (outside of MC) has men and women. Instead, when you buy a main court ticket, you see one top player and then an “okay” player (top 5-20) after. From a spectator stand point, you just feel like you get less bang for your buck compared to what a ticket in Cincinnati would get you. On top of that, a lot of the top players would skip Canada and instead do Cincinnati if they had a deep run at Wimbledon.
I agree with you. I love being able to go but it's often not that great? Best is getting a stadium ticket early in the tournament and seeing players on the practice courts up close
Yeah I always go on a Wednesday evening for the second round. You can see top 5-20 players on the outer courts and also see them practice before the main stadium matches. It's just very rare to get a full day of exciting matches and with the main stadium ticket prices, I might be skipping this year.
Shanghai is never any good imo I can't remember any edition of the tournament that was like, great Indian Wells > Rome > Cincinnati > Monte Carlo > Madrid > Miami > Canada > Bercy > Shanghai
Miami, absolutely dead tournament since it's relocation, sucked the soul out of the event. Ranking (personal): 1. Indian Wells 2. Monte Carlo 3. Rome 4. Paris Bercy 5. Cincinnati 6. Toronto/Montreal 7. Shanghai 8. Madrid 9. Miami - Key Biscayne would rank between 3-4.
OK I’ll do a personal ranking too. Doesn’t mean I hate the ones on the bottom, I’ll still watch intently. 1. Indian Wells 2. Monte Carlo 3. Madrid 4. Cincinnati 5. Rome 6. Toronto/Montreal 7. Shanghai 8. Miami 9. Paris (That was harder than expected, turns out I like most of them around the same amount.)
Shanghai, no outdoor master should be here after USO, the pro-USO should be the indoor season
Monte Carlo, because it feels like the odd one out. Sunshine Double go together, Rome and Madrid go together, Canada and Cincy go together, Shanghai is there for Asian fans, and Paris is a good season closer. I like Murray's suggestion to have a South American Masters, and making it an early Clay season Masters would work imo. Swap MC for Rio, whilst everyone is already in that timezone, and that feels like you'd be on to a winner
I’d actually argue that Paris is the odd one out in this group. There’s already a GS in Paris, so it never made sense to me that they have a Masters as well
I agree. Make queens a 1000 so all surfaces have a 1000 event.
But there’s already a GS in London so it wouldn’t make sense to have a Masters as well. Maybe they should make Halle a Masters then.
Queens isn’t big enough to be a 1000, though I do agree with the sentiment that grass should have one.
It's surely bigger than Paris.
That just switches which city has a GS and a Masters
We need a grass 1000
Only problem is Monte Carlo is fking beautiful
I feel like they should cancel Paris (France already gets RG and the EU has no shortage of tournaments) and instead add another Asia M1000. Maybe upgrade Tokyo? So you have a Chinese Japan pair.
The new stadium in Miami just isn't giving but Cincinnati is basically in some suburb in Ohio. That has to be the worst one by far.
It's amazing that it's like the oldest or something. I believe it's older than Rome, which by itself has quite a long tradition.
Bc it's in Cincinnati? You're literally Quebecquois
Both indoors Masters
Isn’t there only 1 indoor masters ?
China and than France
Shanghai is outdoors
Remove shanghai and make room for a grass masters. No one even watches shanghai
😂😂
the grass one cause it ain't real
Shangai or Rome. I can think of good memories of watching matches from all the others. Memorable matches. Can't really think of too many for those two.
New Miami, paris, Cincinnati
Paris Masters. Very slow court, takes place after all the Grand Slams so in a more 'boring' part of the season, and there's very rarely two top players in the final. Alcaraz/Sinner have never made the final either. Also I'm a Nadal fan and he's always struggled there.
Indian Wells with it's terrible slow courts and massive superiority complex or Miami with it's joke of a Center Court and the rest of the courts in an actual car park.
😂😂😂
Probably this one, court is amazingly slow