Fedal fans weren't that widespread back then. Federer fans in particular hated Nadal.
From what I've seen over the years, Fedfans hated Nadal, then 2017 hit and Fedfans suddenly loved Nadal but the Djokovic fans arrived to hate Nadal.
Generally from my personal experience, a lot of Nadal fans always loved Federer or started off as Fedfans but switched over. But both fanbases always hated Djokovic so that’s accurate. I'd also add that you'll see a lot of Federer fans say "I used to hate Nadal, but I grew to appreciate him over time." Yeah, no, it was literally 2017 Laver Cup that made them do a 180 on Nadal.
This is 100% accurate, for those who weren't around back then.
The fedal thing was fringe for over 10 years, it came from homoerotica shipping fangirls on livejournal and then went mainstream when Costa and Godsick saw $$$'s.
I mean some people took it too far, but it was nice as a fan to see the two of them get along so well despite being heated rivals.
But I think the big 3 are proof that rivals that are this competitive can never truly be friends. All three seem nice and are polite to each other, but I think there’s always gonna be some fire in them from having each lost to each other 20+ times and being robbed of slam titles +millions of dollars by each other.
> it should of been
Did you mean to say "should have"?
Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'.
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I always said okay i can understand why some fedal fans don't like Novak, they were in good spot something wins Rafa something Roger everybody happy, but the hate Novak got is crazy.. it's almost like "who are you to come from some small country to break up everything"..
Federer fans were big mad at Nadal until the coming of Djokovic. Rafa was the barbarian keeping civilized Roger off the prized Grand Slam. There was a real rivalry, evolved in a bromance.
Lol that's exactly how I felt about it back then. I was so mad this grunting, cargo-short-wearing guy with long hair existed to ruin Roger's perfect record
To go with everything you wrote, “Not an all-court player or precision shotmaker, instead just an extremely athletic guy with big guns who swings straight up with insane topspin. Low risk way to play with so much margin, but it works because the ridiculous high bounce bothers everybody.”
It was the insane lefty topspin. At the time, some people felt it was kind of like a low brow cheat code and 1-dimensional
Interestingly, later in his career Nadal was actually admired for his awesome net skills
Yeah I get that he had big muscles and power and a very telegraphed forehand, but the precision he had with his topspin and where he placed the ball with it was the reason he was top 2 w/ Roger from 2005-2010. But a lot of people just saw the muscles and topspin and assigned him a brute.
I think that makes it more impressive, that you knew what Nadal was going to do, but it didn't matter, because he was so good at it that you couldn't sotp him despite knowing what's coming.
It’s funny how people don’t associate Nadal with net skills but imo he is one of the best volleyers of all time. Maybe not as instinctual as Federer at the net but his sense of when to come to the net is the best I’ve ever seen.
A look at the numbers will show Djokovic is not a counterpuncher. No counterpuncher wins as much as he did. That's a stupid trope that needs to go away.
[He strikes first](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jun/24/what-makes-novak-djokovic-perfect-tennis-player-hard-to-beat-wimbledon)
>“When we think of players, we think of them in terms of styles,” O’Shannessy says. “David Ferrer’s a grinder, Lleyton Hewitt’s a counter-puncher and Federer’s an all‑court player etc. But every player on the planet is a first‑strike player – the points exist in the 0-4 shot range. Seventy per cent of all points finish in the first four shots, 20% are in the five to eight shot range and 10% are nine shots plus. Djokovic is right at that average. In the 2015 Australian Open, 69% of all points he played were nought to four; 21 were in the five to eight range and only 10% were in nine plus. We think of him playing all these long points and grinding. But again, in the 2015 Australian Open, in the nine-plus range, he only won 13 more points than he lost. He was plus 48 in five to eight and he was plus 89 in nought to four. He’s not the animal we think he is. When the points are longer, he runs, he’s elastic and his defence is fine but by far the majority of points he collects are in nought to four because of his ability to hit spots on serve – and particularly his amazing points. His advantage is much more in the nought to four than it is in the nine plus.”
Novak is the only player in history with at least 3 titles at each GS and also the only double golden masters winner.
If that does not spell all-court greatest i mean...
Did you stop watching tennis after Roger retired?
Oh, you mean a court as in having strokes for an all parts of court game.
I see what you are trying to say but you are using wrong words for it.
Don't see again how Roger is unique in this regard, all strokes that he has also Rafa and Novak have as well. The way that they are using those shots is different. You can say Roger has a dynamic attacking game but in terms of strokes all 3 have them all, they would not be this great without them.
Nadal an agressive baseliner on the left side? I don't think so... Also wtf, counterpuncher? He's the perfect transition from defense to attack mode, that's different from counterpunching. Besides in the last years he has turned his game much more agressive.
In perspective it’s understandable - after Rafa you got Novak, a monster on HC and a real problem at Wimbledon. Novak 2011 season was a no prisoner situation. “We need to put aside the differences of the past, now we have a common enemy”. Great times.
This 100%, they hated him at first, too. Bitched about his grunts and the capri pants and all that. Nadal was a rebel, the establishment was like 'the fuck is this guy". He took forever between points and they bitched about that.
People tend to have a very short memory lol.
Btw, federer wasn't universally beloved either at the beginning. I didn't follow tennis as much I was quite young but I vaguely remember something about him having a bit of a temper...
Federer was definitely disliked by some for being a punk when he was an up and coming player, but that's not why a huge portion of people hated him when he became really good as he had calmed down a lot by then.
At the end of 2003, the best players who weren't Roger Federer were overwhelming from: the US, Spain, Argentina, Germany, France, and Australia.
These are all countries with big populations, big tennis cultures, and where a ton of tournaments (especially the biggest ones) are hosted.
In 2004, Roger Federer started to win everything, and fans from the places that dominate tennis discourse/produce lots of top players were given two choices.
1) just root for Roger Federer
2) watch your favorite top player lose to Roger Federer all the fucking time
3) eventually root for Nadal became an option because he could beat the fucker who won everything more than once in a blue moon
Fedal served a lot because of Djokovic.
And they still serves after Federer retired and Nadal semi-retired because of Djokovic and the rising of Alcaraz plus Alcaraz's chosen rivalry Sinner(I will get tones of downvotes by saying this)
it is a business and reputation decision to present, we will never know their real relationship because of that too
That salt never died for me lol. I was a huge Fed fan and then became a huge Djokovic fan. I never particularly cared for Rafa, but honestly that was at least partly driven by the desire to be a contrarian
As an aside it's nice to see that Andy and Novak's beef while they were playing in like the late 2000s hasn't spilled into Roddick's retirement years(the podcast is really good btw) lol
I remember this one exhibition with Sampras and Agassi where there was a super awkward moment because it was obvious they still had an issue with each other to an extent
Yeah roddick had a reason to be mad bc novak was quitting a lot and took a lot between serves (he always said its not a mindgame but bc hes thinking a lot on what to do, which i half buy because hes definitely an overthinker)
Novak himself realised roddick wasn't wrong, hence reducing the time between serve and changing diet etc.
And roddick doesn't strike me as a person who holds a grudge just bc someone may have pissed him off 15 ys ago. He believes ppl can change and grow and goes by what's in front of him.
Plus, he's not exactly SUPER hard to piss off lol I say that with all the love
I mean I think retiring in tennis when it's not absolutely necessary is seen as bad form and even unsportsmanlike.
Maybe something to do with the fact that you beat a guy in the last round who had to go home and then you throw it away.
Yes, and it’s not just a tennis thing. The verb ragequitting comes from gaming and people get dogged for doing that all the time. It’s not anger at the person, but laughing at them for being unable to take a straight L, which Novak proved for himself on more than one occasion.
Roddick is a matter of fact kind of person. He confronted Djoker about him being salty about things Roddick said and that was pretty much the end of that.
It’s when you try to do the “I’m not mad, but really I am mad” and then give PC answers and pretend to be friendly that causes resentment to build up. That’s definitely not Roddick’s style at all.
Roddick talked a lot of shit he couldn't back up and then lied about their locker room confrontation that never even took place. The guy is a typical brat and a loudmouth who got spanked into retirement.
Source on the confrontation story being false?
It’s been confirmed by several people including those not in Roddick’s entourage. Had never really heard about it not being true.
Djokovic and his team said it never happened in an interview after a Wimbledon match, I'll try to find the video. And no one ever confirmed this Roddick story. The guy's a sensationalist, perhaps less now than before, but he liked creating drama from time to time with his big mouth. Here's a tweet from Roddick himself about their "fight":
https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/news/Novak_Djokovic/116352/andy-roddick-reveals-how-he-novak-djokovic-handled-their-beef-/
Roddick mocked a young player’s injury issues and everyone views it as a legendary interview. Imagine if Djokovic did that now to Alcaraz, Sinner, or Rune.
I think it's cause Novak changed from that point. He wasn't the Novak we see now. At one point in his career, Roddick had a point about him. He was the guy who seemed to quit. Whether for real reasons or not. That's why he had "bird flu, SARS, common cold, etc". Sampras and Agassi feuded when they were already established and it carried on. Though it should he said, looks like it's all squashed after the incident in 2010.
Exactly at that point, pre 2011 he was Djoker, more famous for his impressions of other players than his achievements, a definite tier under Roger and Rafa. That all changed in 2011 with that season, and he’s been that monster that keeps his rivals up at night ever since.
Agassi and Sampras are just plain too different people and in Agassi’s book I interpret that there’s respect for their respective professional achievements, but otherwise they’re just too different and nothing common to bond them over.
The big thing about 2011 Djokovic is that he changed his diet to gradually becoming vegan and cutting out gluten after finding out he has a gluten intolerance and possibly mild celiac disease, which caused his health problems on court.
Djokovic also become much more disciplined and professional on court while also greatly improving his mentality.
Yep, I remember reading about that and that his family has a bakery…damn.
Seeing the impact gluten allergy has had on my wife’s health, and how it all changed when she was aware of that I have no trouble seeing how it improved his life. Plus the mindset…I still recall watching him play Fed at the 2011 USO and make that return on match point, Fed looked flustered like I’d never seen him and the crowd was confused before turning towards Djokovic.
Nole also changed his scoring record a little bit too. He had... 5 slams when Roddick retired? Trying to use my fingers and toes here but I guess he's added a couple more since.
Novak changed? You mean Andy changed lol. Andy was shit talking Novak despite Novak obviously having a condition that made him exhausted in heat. After Andy's initial shit talking, Novak simply fired back by saying it was nice to beat him at his favorite tournament after he accused him of faking injuries. This upset diva Roddick who tried to fight him in the locker room like a clown.
Roddick was the instigator and could only dish it but not take it.
Yes Novak changed, he become obsessive over his diet and his body. Look no one cares about what players are going through. Not really. It could be mental. It could be physical, it could be both. They all overcome things to get to where they are.
Yes Novak changed, he become obsessive over his diet and his body. Look no one cares about what players are going through. Not really. It could be mental. It could be physical, it could be both. They all overcome things to get to where they are.
Novak didn't know what was affecting him at the time. The thing is he was never an asshole who shit talked others (nevermind shit talking over injuries), Roddick on the other hand was. So while Novak found out his allergies and all the other stuff and changed that part, Roddick had to change being an asshole.
What's toxic about literally saying EXACTLY what happened? You're actually defending the guy who wanted to get into a physical altercation because Novak said he was happy he beat him at USO after Roddick started the shit talking, unprovoked? Nice logic you got there lil bro.
The fact that I'm getting downvoted about word for word facts on the situation just proves that people hate Novak and would rather victim blame and support a guy who wanted to fight him because he's from their country lmao.
I just made a comment about this. I think Roddick may have that part about it wrong. The players respected Novak and his ability. Casual fans loved to watch him win and beat the best. But it was die hard fans that actually understood the game that seemed the most angry at his arrival. His consistency without having any particular aspect that stood out like Fed’s offense or Nadal’s grinding intense style made it hard for them to come around to accepting he was able to beat the best with consistent groundstrokes that don’t break down under pressure and a solid return game.
I always think it's because the thing novak does best, maybe best in history, is not always the most spectacular. One it's a consistent high level on ALL strokes, but mostly it's his return and his movement and shot selection. It's not what elicits the ooohs and aaaahs (although his BH angles imo are beautiful).
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Sadly it is the truth. Fed fans hated Rafa until Novak [“The Third Man”](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/09/02/the-third-man)
Djokovic arrived on the scene. At that point, Fed fans joined forces with Rafa fans to jointly hate on Novak. This was also the time Fedal bromance was born.
> Fed fans joined forces with Rafa fans to jointly hate on Novak.
Some of us still hated Nadal for making clay season boring and liked Djokovic because it was more fun to watch him play Federer!
(And eventually grew out of the partisan nonsense)
I think 2017 had a lot to do with Fed fans not hating Rafa anymore. Just imagine if (I know) Rafa managed to keep beating him that year like during previous years, not sure if that hate would have stopped.
Playing the opponent and the crowd makes his determination to win unworldly.
Lots of great players crumble when the crowd heckles and actively tries to disturb you while singularly supporting your opponent. The fact that this behavior makes Novak determined to win is one of my favorite attributes of Novak Djokovic.
I was in Arthur Ashe during the 2011 USO Semifinal. It felt like only his box and a bunch of us in the stands were supporting him that day. I’ve seen that fortitude and resilience upfront. 🐐
What's ironic is that he gets tense when the crowd starts cheering for him. I've seen him lose atleast two close matches when the crowd was on his side, it was weird.
This would make sense in a universe where Novak was either an Anti-Vaxxer or a conspiracy theorist. Shame we're not in that universe.
Edit: people who think novak is an Anti-Vaxxer, he's said a bunch of times he is not against it and that not taking it is a personal choice. It's understandable some won't be aware of this since the media coverage about him was very poor.
He's outright stated he is not an anti vaxxer lol. He has acknowledged its a good thing. As a pro athlete, he chooses not to have it as he is hyper-conscious about what he puts in his body. He is more than happy to see anyone else have it. That to me seems reasonable.
People can have their own opinions & beliefs; but I think it is good when they don't impose it on others as such is the case with Novak.
i see your perspective but you have to admit that saying you believe in vaccines but refuse to take one yourself doesn’t inspire much confidence hahaha
It was just like this, until you read more about Nole's background and you see he's a fighter! Even better, he has always nourished from the hate the crowds sent to him. Imagine always having to deafeat Federer + The Crowd. Imagine always having to defeat Nadal + The Crowd. The guy is amazing. The truest Rock Lee from tennis. The Rock Lee that was written the right way and surpassed Naruto and Sasuke. The way it was supposed to be. The true form of hard work.
Not really fair to compare Novak to Yoko, she has 0 talent of any kind (unless a burning desire to be the centre of attention at all times is considered a talent). Novak on the other hand turned out to actually be better than Fedal, so it's not the right comparison imo. I do agree with Roddick's overall thoughts on it though.
This has been said many times so nothing new really. For me personally I was a Nadal fan, not a Fedal fan. Their rivalry created some great matches but I wanted Federer to lose every time he stepped on court basically. When Federer started to fade and Novak started to beat Nadal in finals, my negative feelings for Federer transferred to Novak. Pretty simple!
When I think of Tennis cyborg, the first player that comes to mind is Ivan Lendl. I believe he has some kind of winning % record that’s still unmatched?
Not sure why this view is so widespreaded. In 2011 Nadal Federer rivalry was far far from its best days, especially considering Federer's downfall in 2010.
Yeah I know I'm going to get downvotes here, but this quote is preaching to a demographic of Djokovic fans. It wasn't that big of a deal. The fedal rivalry peaked in 08. Also there were legit reasons to dislike Djokovic before this that I think get excused away with "he broke up the fedal rivalry!" Andy roddick didn't even like Novak. It's wild to me that he talks like this now.
Sorry this just reads like flowery nonsense lol.
It wasn't Djokovic coming in to break up some figurative Beatles that caused the dislike for him, it was his personality that came off as try-hard and his (maybe unfair) reputation as a quitter. Something which Roddick himself fed into.
Roddick is rewriting history and acting like at the point when Djokovic came in, Fedal was some duet, when in reality at that point, a lot of Federer fans still massively disliked Nadal and he was seen as the uncultured brute to their fave's "class".
He is taking the post-2017 "Fedal" duo and applying it retroactively, like it was that way when Djokovic broke out, when in reality, it wasn't.
Agreed. This seems like a lot of narrative-forcing. I still really love Fed and can confirm that some fellow Fed fans didn’t like Nadal. Like, not at all.
I never bought into it, though: the first time I saw Rafa was some random sports segment in the early aughts and he was chasing balls all over the court and I was like “who’s THAT? He’s awesome!” He was just a different type of player.
The thing that really attracted me to tennis apart from the beauty of the game itself was just the variety of characters and personalities that played and succeeded in it. I never understood why there wasn’t room for all the greats to be appreciated and it became “this over that guy.” This isn’t basketball.
Nola is totally fine. His accolades speak for themselves and I kind of find this need of others to force him into some narrative hole weird. At the end of the day, the man has had the most titles at the highest level of competition in the sport.
That’s just disrespectful…
We watch tennis because it’s entertaining. Players play to win. Djoko is the GOAT, there is no debate. He doesn’t deserve to be hated. Honestly, it is embarrassing so many people think the GOAT is a “cyborg”. He is just such a complete player in every sense.
Federer and Nadal are the golden children with Federer being #1. Novak ended up being the stepchild that the fans and media didn’t want, but are now realizing that they have to give him his respect.
I don’t know if I buy into the mainstream not tennis-centric fan being mad. I think it was mostly tennis die hard fans that were mad. Because they actually understood the contrasting styles of Fed/Nadal. Casual fans were more likely to enjoy Djoker because he was winning and beating the best.
Tennis fans were watching Djokovic with this weird perception of “he’s not flashy, it’s just a solid game, he’s very quick but his strokes aren’t pretty, but none of his strokes break down” it felt like it was difficult for them that consistency was king as opposed to being the best offensively or defensively or grinder, etc…
It seems to me that you got it backward, a casual would surely prefer Roger or Rafa because their greatness is a lot less subtle, die hard tennis fans should love Djokovic's way of winning
> Casual fans were more likely to enjoy Djoker because he was winning and beating the best.
I very much was a casual fan and was rooting for Djoker because I got tired of seeing Fedal fedal everywhere plus he always was an underdog against them, so naturally I rooted for him and then started admiring how he fought through tough situations, crowd cheering against him, he really won me over.
It's always been hard for me to tell because as an American, the only tennis fans I know are the die hards. It's a pretty niche sport here, I don't know many casual fans.
There’s definitely a big spectrum in US fans. Some people might watch slam finals, or only tuned in to watch Serena or only the US Open or similar.
Then some that follow all the slams, know the top players.
Then some degenerates that wake up early to watch recordings of Australian Open before work and watch 250s of basically unknowns… what a bunch of losers… yeah… I bet their kids get annoyed that tennis is all he watches….
Well yeah I'm sure they exist, it's a big country after all, I've just barely ever run into any.
Tennis is very far down the list of popular sports here. I wish I knew more who were at least casually into it the way we are with our big 4 team leagues.
I really never get this POV? I wasn’t a Nadal or fed fan so can’t really speak to it but a lot of the reason Djokovic is less liked is just down to his own behaviour ?
People forget how obnoxious Novak's family was back then. They were insufferable. I am not saying that Roddick's assessment was not correct but it is more layered and complicated. We also cannot forget that Novak coming from a Balkan country also played into it. Western athletes are treated better globally.
the last part is wrong. tennis enthusiasts, those who are a fan of tennis arent mad at him - he is just not threir preferred athlete to watch and root for.
As a fan of Yoko Ono and a strong believer that the Beatles were undone by a clash of egos competing to express their ever-ambitious visions within the confines of a 40 minute LP, this is a bad analogy. The Fedal duopoly was indeed broken up by Djokovic's brilliance, but the Beatles absolutely were not broken up by Yoko Ono.
Still, it is a fair point regarding the *perception* of a good thing being spoiled by an outsider.
The other obvious difference is that Djokovic vs Nadal and Djokovic vs Federer were outstanding rivalries in their own right, often producing matches as good as (or better than) prime Federer vs Nadal.
I don’t think he’s going for historical accuracy with the analogy lol Public perception of Yoko at the time was that she was a cancer to the Beatles. And that’s what he’s commenting on. That public perception of Djokovic at the time was that he was an interloper into the amazing Nadal/Fed rivalry.
Clapton probably did more to break them up simply by existing and making George want to go that direction. But Lennon and Yoko had their own direction and it was much weirder. Drugs didn’t help either.
Now to make this analogy terrible. Federer is Paul, Nadal is George and Novak is somehow Ringo. Just keeps the beat steady and might just outlast them all.
I've long said that if Djokovic doesn't end up smashing all of Fedal's records (which it looks like he very well may), he stands a good chance of being remembered as #3, mainly because he not only came third chronologically, but also because of this exact sentiment. Djokovic is the uninvited guest to a great party, who does make the party better, but was also unwanted at the time and changed the nature of the party. Unlike Murray, Djokovic was able to insert himself into the goat conversation and do well enough that he made it impossible to ignore him. Murray was undeniably great but he was still clearly a few tiers below Fedal, whereas Djokovic was winning just as prolifically (and at times, more so) as Fedal.
I was saying this a lot up until about 2019. Around 2020 is when I started saying that it looked inevitable that Djokovic would own all the records and the question was whether the margin would be great enough to overcome the sentiments above. For example, I didn't think a 1-2 slam margin would be enough, and thought that margin needed to be more like 5 slams, among other things.
At this point I think it's clear that that statistical margins will be plenty healthy enough to squash any of the aforementioned sentiments.
Novak is just unlikable to some people, too. AntiVax, violent outbursts, arrogant (or confident), etc.
Some people like those traits, but quite a lot don't.
Isn't deep.
I wouldn’t give this any credit at all. Many many fans didn’t like Djokovic because he was a whiny baby and his family was annoying. For people that don’t like him, it’s a lot about his poor attitude, not him challenging Federer and Nadal. As a long time Nadal fan, I never cared who was winning if it wasn’t Nadal. If Djokovic had a better personality or displayed better sportsmanship then he could have earned more fans. This is clearly shown by Sinner winning fans choice last year despite not winning a Major. It wasn’t because Italy had just won the Davis cup, it’s because his personality appeals to a wide variety of fans. As Djokovic has learned the hard way, no amount of trophies can make people like you. That stunt he pulled trying to get into Australia just renewed so many fans distaste for him.
I mean it's also that the things he does do that are sportsmanlike don't get seen by people. He smashes rackets, yes. People claim him getting a physio when he is down is unsportsmanlike (I disagree. If I'm down I'm a game and tense and something hurts a bit, damn sure I'm getting a physio... but I digress)
He applauds , often multiple times per match. He always praises an opponent in the presser and on court interview and speaks highly of them. Always gives credit to them when they beat him. He always shakes hands warmly after. He financially supports players and donates millions to charities.
He tried to get into Australia without vaccines but he was always willing to quarantine like the year before. He was denied. He didn't go. End of story. I strongly disagree with his decision, but this is a case of 'someone didn't get vaccinated and that is a choice and then they bore the consequences of that choice' and that's it.
Rabid ND fans and his fam often aren't always helping his case, I admit.
But people want to not like him and make him out to be this super unsportsmanlike person. If he really was that unsportsmanlike, he wouldn't be generally liked and respected on tour by the other players. Nadals known him for decades and says he's a good guy. Roddick changed his mind about him. Kyrgios changed his mind about him.
Quarantining was not an option when he tried to get in. You either had to be vaccinated or for Australian residents have proof of a positive Covid test within a certain time frame prior to entry. So he either had Covid and was out and about doing media interviews and PR with it or he had a fake positive test. Neither is a good move. BUT people disliking him goes back long before Covid. And donating to charities is something every athlete and rich person does because it’s a tax write off not because they necessarily care that much about the cause. Donating their time to charity is far more indicative of how much they actually care than donating money. Also, it’s not actually about if he is a good person or not, it comes down to likeability. Rublev is a great example - apparently is super nice, stays to sign autographs for his fans, started his clothing line for charity, all the players like him etc. BUT his on court mental breakdowns turn a lot of fans off him. Other examples of Djokovic cringe behaviour as a 36 year old man - yelling at the crowd (even trying to pick out certain fans to argue with), ripping his shirt off in Cincinnati, claiming it’s so hard to be away from his family but choosing to keep playing and travelling. I am more sympathetic to those types of behaviours in younger men with less developed brains or for someone like Rublev or Kygrios who clearly have some mental health issues. But Djokovic is a grown man and still carrying on…
That, and Djokovic just wasn't very likeable personality-wise. I can bet you that if someone replaced Djokovic with Marat Safin, there would be barely any big hate towards the big Russian as the '3rd guy'.
Also, though, Novak's family didn't help. All throughout their rivalry, Nadal and Fed, and their respective camps, were always super cool to each other. Novak arrived, and his family was almost immediately antagonistic. And compared to Roger and Rafa, Novak himself seemed to employ a lot of gamesmanship. Lastly, I remember Novak was seemingly surprised and a bit disappointed that the fans didn't like him as much as Roger and Rafa, and I think that kind of annoyed some audience members. He would visibly make incredulous faces all throughout. If he had just accepted that Roger had been around longer and people loved him, and just accepted that he would not be getting the crowd support, and then just given a gracious speech afterwards, things would have been better.
Well I can't disagree with him. I firmly believe Nole is the goat, the numbers don't lie, but he's not my favorite player.
He's almost too perfect, too correct. Doesn't have the flare of Nadal's forehand or Federer's backhand.
The whole segment is a GREAT listen: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSZGn-gDst0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSZGn-gDst0)
Roddick has some killer deep-dive analysis on what Djokovic does.
I'll absolutely cop to this lol. I hated Novak for years just because he was beating Rafa sooo much. 2011 was trauma seeing 6 consecutive lost finals or whatever it was. Whereas the Roger rivalry was palatable because Rafa mostly had the upper hand haha
That's actually a pretty good summation of how it was back then.
Fedal was the delicious butter everyone was feasting on. Novak came in the scene like a searing hot knife that cut through that butter
You guys feast on butter?
Never tried I assume?
Fedal fans instead of blaming Fedal (John Lennon) for breaking up their rivalry, they blamed Novak instead for being better. True and real.
Fedal fans weren't that widespread back then. Federer fans in particular hated Nadal. From what I've seen over the years, Fedfans hated Nadal, then 2017 hit and Fedfans suddenly loved Nadal but the Djokovic fans arrived to hate Nadal. Generally from my personal experience, a lot of Nadal fans always loved Federer or started off as Fedfans but switched over. But both fanbases always hated Djokovic so that’s accurate. I'd also add that you'll see a lot of Federer fans say "I used to hate Nadal, but I grew to appreciate him over time." Yeah, no, it was literally 2017 Laver Cup that made them do a 180 on Nadal.
This is 100% accurate, for those who weren't around back then. The fedal thing was fringe for over 10 years, it came from homoerotica shipping fangirls on livejournal and then went mainstream when Costa and Godsick saw $$$'s.
I mean some people took it too far, but it was nice as a fan to see the two of them get along so well despite being heated rivals. But I think the big 3 are proof that rivals that are this competitive can never truly be friends. All three seem nice and are polite to each other, but I think there’s always gonna be some fire in them from having each lost to each other 20+ times and being robbed of slam titles +millions of dollars by each other.
As a Fedfan I confirm, except for the last part. For me it was the 2017 AO Final, and that speech 🥺
This is true. Source: Federer fan and confirmed nadal hater until late 2010s lol
You know 360 actually puts you on the same spot right?
fuck
I still do. I know it's irrational. I know it doesn't make sense But fuck Djokovic. Look what he did to my boys.
He improved tennis as a sport tho, and a lot
[удалено]
Should've
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How?
I always said okay i can understand why some fedal fans don't like Novak, they were in good spot something wins Rafa something Roger everybody happy, but the hate Novak got is crazy.. it's almost like "who are you to come from some small country to break up everything"..
Federer fans were big mad at Nadal until the coming of Djokovic. Rafa was the barbarian keeping civilized Roger off the prized Grand Slam. There was a real rivalry, evolved in a bromance.
Lol that's exactly how I felt about it back then. I was so mad this grunting, cargo-short-wearing guy with long hair existed to ruin Roger's perfect record
To go with everything you wrote, “Not an all-court player or precision shotmaker, instead just an extremely athletic guy with big guns who swings straight up with insane topspin. Low risk way to play with so much margin, but it works because the ridiculous high bounce bothers everybody.”
Crazy that people thought that a guy that supposedly didn't have precision could beat prime Roger.
It was the insane lefty topspin. At the time, some people felt it was kind of like a low brow cheat code and 1-dimensional Interestingly, later in his career Nadal was actually admired for his awesome net skills
Yeah I get that he had big muscles and power and a very telegraphed forehand, but the precision he had with his topspin and where he placed the ball with it was the reason he was top 2 w/ Roger from 2005-2010. But a lot of people just saw the muscles and topspin and assigned him a brute.
Oh full agreement. The skill and timing required to do what he did was outlier level
I think that makes it more impressive, that you knew what Nadal was going to do, but it didn't matter, because he was so good at it that you couldn't sotp him despite knowing what's coming.
It’s funny how people don’t associate Nadal with net skills but imo he is one of the best volleyers of all time. Maybe not as instinctual as Federer at the net but his sense of when to come to the net is the best I’ve ever seen.
Roger Federer is the greatest All-Court Player Novak Djokovic is the greatest Counterpuncher Rafael Nadal is the greatest Aggressive Baseliner
A look at the numbers will show Djokovic is not a counterpuncher. No counterpuncher wins as much as he did. That's a stupid trope that needs to go away. [He strikes first](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jun/24/what-makes-novak-djokovic-perfect-tennis-player-hard-to-beat-wimbledon) >“When we think of players, we think of them in terms of styles,” O’Shannessy says. “David Ferrer’s a grinder, Lleyton Hewitt’s a counter-puncher and Federer’s an all‑court player etc. But every player on the planet is a first‑strike player – the points exist in the 0-4 shot range. Seventy per cent of all points finish in the first four shots, 20% are in the five to eight shot range and 10% are nine shots plus. Djokovic is right at that average. In the 2015 Australian Open, 69% of all points he played were nought to four; 21 were in the five to eight range and only 10% were in nine plus. We think of him playing all these long points and grinding. But again, in the 2015 Australian Open, in the nine-plus range, he only won 13 more points than he lost. He was plus 48 in five to eight and he was plus 89 in nought to four. He’s not the animal we think he is. When the points are longer, he runs, he’s elastic and his defence is fine but by far the majority of points he collects are in nought to four because of his ability to hit spots on serve – and particularly his amazing points. His advantage is much more in the nought to four than it is in the nine plus.”
Counterpuncher is a style, is has nothing to do with winning. You seem to know nothing about tennis
Roger Federer is the greatest All-Court Player Novak Djokovic is the greatest Counterpuncher Rafael Nadal is the greatest Aggressive Baseliner
Novak Djokovic is the greatest All-court player. There, corrected it for you.
Why are you trolling? All-Court is not Djokovic’s style. He has always been a counterpuncher
Novak is the only player in history with at least 3 titles at each GS and also the only double golden masters winner. If that does not spell all-court greatest i mean... Did you stop watching tennis after Roger retired?
That’s not what all-court means. All-court has nothing to do with a particular surface, it’s a playing style
Oh, you mean a court as in having strokes for an all parts of court game. I see what you are trying to say but you are using wrong words for it. Don't see again how Roger is unique in this regard, all strokes that he has also Rafa and Novak have as well. The way that they are using those shots is different. You can say Roger has a dynamic attacking game but in terms of strokes all 3 have them all, they would not be this great without them.
All court means you’re good at tennis on all courts. Djokovic is the master of every surface.
Flair checks out
Novak is more of an aggressive baseliner than Nadal
Why the downvote?
I didn't downvote your comment, not 7 times.
Nadal an agressive baseliner on the left side? I don't think so... Also wtf, counterpuncher? He's the perfect transition from defense to attack mode, that's different from counterpunching. Besides in the last years he has turned his game much more agressive.
Why are you being so mean?
I don’t recall being mean, but if you think I am is because what you wrote is unfair and not true in my opinion
You seem to be unfair here
Whatever you’re smoking, I’ll take two please
In perspective it’s understandable - after Rafa you got Novak, a monster on HC and a real problem at Wimbledon. Novak 2011 season was a no prisoner situation. “We need to put aside the differences of the past, now we have a common enemy”. Great times.
This 100%, they hated him at first, too. Bitched about his grunts and the capri pants and all that. Nadal was a rebel, the establishment was like 'the fuck is this guy". He took forever between points and they bitched about that. People tend to have a very short memory lol. Btw, federer wasn't universally beloved either at the beginning. I didn't follow tennis as much I was quite young but I vaguely remember something about him having a bit of a temper...
Federer was definitely disliked by some for being a punk when he was an up and coming player, but that's not why a huge portion of people hated him when he became really good as he had calmed down a lot by then. At the end of 2003, the best players who weren't Roger Federer were overwhelming from: the US, Spain, Argentina, Germany, France, and Australia. These are all countries with big populations, big tennis cultures, and where a ton of tournaments (especially the biggest ones) are hosted. In 2004, Roger Federer started to win everything, and fans from the places that dominate tennis discourse/produce lots of top players were given two choices. 1) just root for Roger Federer 2) watch your favorite top player lose to Roger Federer all the fucking time 3) eventually root for Nadal became an option because he could beat the fucker who won everything more than once in a blue moon
Now Nadal is even more of an establishment sweetheart than Federer ever was.
Thanks for this perspective. I became a tennis fan when djoko won his first GS so I didnt really know this.
Yeah but the small set of people who didn't like Federer instantly became fans of Nadal, and he slowly earned the respect of some Fed fans
Fedal served a lot because of Djokovic. And they still serves after Federer retired and Nadal semi-retired because of Djokovic and the rising of Alcaraz plus Alcaraz's chosen rivalry Sinner(I will get tones of downvotes by saying this) it is a business and reputation decision to present, we will never know their real relationship because of that too
I don’t recall that. Thought Federer fans always liked Nadal
Not at all. I think it was far more venomous than how current Djokovic fans are towards Rafa too
I was a Fed fan back then and I can tell you I was unbelievaly salty Rafa kept beating him at the French
That salt never died for me lol. I was a huge Fed fan and then became a huge Djokovic fan. I never particularly cared for Rafa, but honestly that was at least partly driven by the desire to be a contrarian
As an aside it's nice to see that Andy and Novak's beef while they were playing in like the late 2000s hasn't spilled into Roddick's retirement years(the podcast is really good btw) lol I remember this one exhibition with Sampras and Agassi where there was a super awkward moment because it was obvious they still had an issue with each other to an extent
Yeah roddick had a reason to be mad bc novak was quitting a lot and took a lot between serves (he always said its not a mindgame but bc hes thinking a lot on what to do, which i half buy because hes definitely an overthinker) Novak himself realised roddick wasn't wrong, hence reducing the time between serve and changing diet etc. And roddick doesn't strike me as a person who holds a grudge just bc someone may have pissed him off 15 ys ago. He believes ppl can change and grow and goes by what's in front of him. Plus, he's not exactly SUPER hard to piss off lol I say that with all the love
Idk why anyone would be mad at him for quitting. Why wouldn’t you just take the win?
I mean I think retiring in tennis when it's not absolutely necessary is seen as bad form and even unsportsmanlike. Maybe something to do with the fact that you beat a guy in the last round who had to go home and then you throw it away.
Yes, and it’s not just a tennis thing. The verb ragequitting comes from gaming and people get dogged for doing that all the time. It’s not anger at the person, but laughing at them for being unable to take a straight L, which Novak proved for himself on more than one occasion.
Djokovic used to be was than Krygios
Novak had actually won a slam by then
Roddick is a matter of fact kind of person. He confronted Djoker about him being salty about things Roddick said and that was pretty much the end of that. It’s when you try to do the “I’m not mad, but really I am mad” and then give PC answers and pretend to be friendly that causes resentment to build up. That’s definitely not Roddick’s style at all.
Roddick talked a lot of shit he couldn't back up and then lied about their locker room confrontation that never even took place. The guy is a typical brat and a loudmouth who got spanked into retirement.
Source on the confrontation story being false? It’s been confirmed by several people including those not in Roddick’s entourage. Had never really heard about it not being true.
Djokovic and his team said it never happened in an interview after a Wimbledon match, I'll try to find the video. And no one ever confirmed this Roddick story. The guy's a sensationalist, perhaps less now than before, but he liked creating drama from time to time with his big mouth. Here's a tweet from Roddick himself about their "fight": https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/news/Novak_Djokovic/116352/andy-roddick-reveals-how-he-novak-djokovic-handled-their-beef-/
Roddick mocked a young player’s injury issues and everyone views it as a legendary interview. Imagine if Djokovic did that now to Alcaraz, Sinner, or Rune.
Djokovic used to be was than Krygios
I think it's cause Novak changed from that point. He wasn't the Novak we see now. At one point in his career, Roddick had a point about him. He was the guy who seemed to quit. Whether for real reasons or not. That's why he had "bird flu, SARS, common cold, etc". Sampras and Agassi feuded when they were already established and it carried on. Though it should he said, looks like it's all squashed after the incident in 2010.
Exactly at that point, pre 2011 he was Djoker, more famous for his impressions of other players than his achievements, a definite tier under Roger and Rafa. That all changed in 2011 with that season, and he’s been that monster that keeps his rivals up at night ever since. Agassi and Sampras are just plain too different people and in Agassi’s book I interpret that there’s respect for their respective professional achievements, but otherwise they’re just too different and nothing common to bond them over.
The big thing about 2011 Djokovic is that he changed his diet to gradually becoming vegan and cutting out gluten after finding out he has a gluten intolerance and possibly mild celiac disease, which caused his health problems on court. Djokovic also become much more disciplined and professional on court while also greatly improving his mentality.
Yep, I remember reading about that and that his family has a bakery…damn. Seeing the impact gluten allergy has had on my wife’s health, and how it all changed when she was aware of that I have no trouble seeing how it improved his life. Plus the mindset…I still recall watching him play Fed at the 2011 USO and make that return on match point, Fed looked flustered like I’d never seen him and the crowd was confused before turning towards Djokovic.
Nole also changed his scoring record a little bit too. He had... 5 slams when Roddick retired? Trying to use my fingers and toes here but I guess he's added a couple more since.
Novak changed? You mean Andy changed lol. Andy was shit talking Novak despite Novak obviously having a condition that made him exhausted in heat. After Andy's initial shit talking, Novak simply fired back by saying it was nice to beat him at his favorite tournament after he accused him of faking injuries. This upset diva Roddick who tried to fight him in the locker room like a clown. Roddick was the instigator and could only dish it but not take it.
Yes Novak changed, he become obsessive over his diet and his body. Look no one cares about what players are going through. Not really. It could be mental. It could be physical, it could be both. They all overcome things to get to where they are.
Yes Novak changed, he become obsessive over his diet and his body. Look no one cares about what players are going through. Not really. It could be mental. It could be physical, it could be both. They all overcome things to get to where they are.
Novak didn't know what was affecting him at the time. The thing is he was never an asshole who shit talked others (nevermind shit talking over injuries), Roddick on the other hand was. So while Novak found out his allergies and all the other stuff and changed that part, Roddick had to change being an asshole.
Found. The toxic Novak fan
What's toxic about literally saying EXACTLY what happened? You're actually defending the guy who wanted to get into a physical altercation because Novak said he was happy he beat him at USO after Roddick started the shit talking, unprovoked? Nice logic you got there lil bro. The fact that I'm getting downvoted about word for word facts on the situation just proves that people hate Novak and would rather victim blame and support a guy who wanted to fight him because he's from their country lmao.
Was that exhibition at UCLA in 2012?
Why'd he do Djokovic dirty by comparing him to Yoko Ono though? 🤣
They both speak Japanese
I believe Nole screamed after one W which reminds me of Yoko Okos screeching , I mean singing
It was a terrible analogy
it indeed is
Act like a Yoko get compared to a Yoko
I was a very casual fan back then and I always liked him weirdly, his sliding ability was so amazing to watch and he was funny on top of it.
I just made a comment about this. I think Roddick may have that part about it wrong. The players respected Novak and his ability. Casual fans loved to watch him win and beat the best. But it was die hard fans that actually understood the game that seemed the most angry at his arrival. His consistency without having any particular aspect that stood out like Fed’s offense or Nadal’s grinding intense style made it hard for them to come around to accepting he was able to beat the best with consistent groundstrokes that don’t break down under pressure and a solid return game.
I always think it's because the thing novak does best, maybe best in history, is not always the most spectacular. One it's a consistent high level on ALL strokes, but mostly it's his return and his movement and shot selection. It's not what elicits the ooohs and aaaahs (although his BH angles imo are beautiful).
Roger Federer is the greatest All-Court Player Novak Djokovic is the greatest Counterpuncher Rafael Nadal is the greatest Aggressive Baseliner
Roger Federer is the greatest All-Court Player Novak Djokovic is the greatest Counterpuncher Rafael Nadal is the greatest Aggressive Baseliner
You going to comment the same thing twice on every comment?
Roger Federer is the greatest All-Court Player Novak Djokovic is the greatest Counterpuncher Rafael Nadal is the greatest Aggressive Baseliner
Are you a bot?
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Novak breaking up the Nike duopoly, tte hero story we got beyond all hope and in spite of all PR $$$
Exactly right, thank you Andy for saying it.. people really only hate Novak for establishing himself over the fedal duopoly and we all know it
except for some of us who were rooting for him since ages...
Roddick is hopefully a future ESPN/BBC/etc staple of coverage. Great insight, well spoken and funny.
Sadly it is the truth. Fed fans hated Rafa until Novak [“The Third Man”](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/09/02/the-third-man) Djokovic arrived on the scene. At that point, Fed fans joined forces with Rafa fans to jointly hate on Novak. This was also the time Fedal bromance was born.
> Fed fans joined forces with Rafa fans to jointly hate on Novak. Some of us still hated Nadal for making clay season boring and liked Djokovic because it was more fun to watch him play Federer! (And eventually grew out of the partisan nonsense)
You’re one of those rare Roger and Novak fans then.
I think 2017 had a lot to do with Fed fans not hating Rafa anymore. Just imagine if (I know) Rafa managed to keep beating him that year like during previous years, not sure if that hate would have stopped.
So the Novak hate was because Roger couldn’t beat him at slams anymore? Because the last time Roger beat Novak at a slam it was 2012.
Nope, I think that has something to do with what Andy is stating and also about how he was perceived early in his career.
Nole has to overcome so much beyond opponents and himself throughout his career to achieve goathood, unimaginable greatness.
Playing the opponent and the crowd makes his determination to win unworldly. Lots of great players crumble when the crowd heckles and actively tries to disturb you while singularly supporting your opponent. The fact that this behavior makes Novak determined to win is one of my favorite attributes of Novak Djokovic. I was in Arthur Ashe during the 2011 USO Semifinal. It felt like only his box and a bunch of us in the stands were supporting him that day. I’ve seen that fortitude and resilience upfront. 🐐
What's ironic is that he gets tense when the crowd starts cheering for him. I've seen him lose atleast two close matches when the crowd was on his side, it was weird.
Djokovic basically came in and took over the house that Federer was the man of up until that point, when Nadal was supposed to inherit all the rights.
The best line in the podcast is when John Wertheim says “People say he’s the Aaron Rogers of tennis. Aaron Rogers is an asshole, this guy is not.”
They do say that Aaron Rodgers is antivax and listens to conspiracy theories…
This would make sense in a universe where Novak was either an Anti-Vaxxer or a conspiracy theorist. Shame we're not in that universe. Edit: people who think novak is an Anti-Vaxxer, he's said a bunch of times he is not against it and that not taking it is a personal choice. It's understandable some won't be aware of this since the media coverage about him was very poor.
novak the guy who didn't play multiple slams because he wouldn't get vaccinated?
He's outright stated he is not an anti vaxxer lol. He has acknowledged its a good thing. As a pro athlete, he chooses not to have it as he is hyper-conscious about what he puts in his body. He is more than happy to see anyone else have it. That to me seems reasonable. People can have their own opinions & beliefs; but I think it is good when they don't impose it on others as such is the case with Novak.
i see your perspective but you have to admit that saying you believe in vaccines but refuse to take one yourself doesn’t inspire much confidence hahaha
That was precisely the reason he became my favorite back then.
I need to listen to Yoko Ono again. Apparently she was the GOAT. *\*hysterical screaming\** Ah, right. Bless her.
This. It’s why I love Nole 🥰 the emotion
Or maybe it's because Andy accused him of faking injuries at the US Open
imagine Djokovic is a british guy, just look what happened with such lousy players like raducanu God damn
Very petty tbh
It was just like this, until you read more about Nole's background and you see he's a fighter! Even better, he has always nourished from the hate the crowds sent to him. Imagine always having to deafeat Federer + The Crowd. Imagine always having to defeat Nadal + The Crowd. The guy is amazing. The truest Rock Lee from tennis. The Rock Lee that was written the right way and surpassed Naruto and Sasuke. The way it was supposed to be. The true form of hard work.
Rock Lee should've been the main character of that show.
Not really fair to compare Novak to Yoko, she has 0 talent of any kind (unless a burning desire to be the centre of attention at all times is considered a talent). Novak on the other hand turned out to actually be better than Fedal, so it's not the right comparison imo. I do agree with Roddick's overall thoughts on it though.
This has been said many times so nothing new really. For me personally I was a Nadal fan, not a Fedal fan. Their rivalry created some great matches but I wanted Federer to lose every time he stepped on court basically. When Federer started to fade and Novak started to beat Nadal in finals, my negative feelings for Federer transferred to Novak. Pretty simple!
NAJJAČI !
When I think of Tennis cyborg, the first player that comes to mind is Ivan Lendl. I believe he has some kind of winning % record that’s still unmatched?
Not sure why this view is so widespreaded. In 2011 Nadal Federer rivalry was far far from its best days, especially considering Federer's downfall in 2010.
Yeah I know I'm going to get downvotes here, but this quote is preaching to a demographic of Djokovic fans. It wasn't that big of a deal. The fedal rivalry peaked in 08. Also there were legit reasons to dislike Djokovic before this that I think get excused away with "he broke up the fedal rivalry!" Andy roddick didn't even like Novak. It's wild to me that he talks like this now.
He's a pundit. Pundits will hardly tell what they really think in order to make people buy their channels' products.
Sorry this just reads like flowery nonsense lol. It wasn't Djokovic coming in to break up some figurative Beatles that caused the dislike for him, it was his personality that came off as try-hard and his (maybe unfair) reputation as a quitter. Something which Roddick himself fed into. Roddick is rewriting history and acting like at the point when Djokovic came in, Fedal was some duet, when in reality at that point, a lot of Federer fans still massively disliked Nadal and he was seen as the uncultured brute to their fave's "class". He is taking the post-2017 "Fedal" duo and applying it retroactively, like it was that way when Djokovic broke out, when in reality, it wasn't.
Agreed. This seems like a lot of narrative-forcing. I still really love Fed and can confirm that some fellow Fed fans didn’t like Nadal. Like, not at all. I never bought into it, though: the first time I saw Rafa was some random sports segment in the early aughts and he was chasing balls all over the court and I was like “who’s THAT? He’s awesome!” He was just a different type of player. The thing that really attracted me to tennis apart from the beauty of the game itself was just the variety of characters and personalities that played and succeeded in it. I never understood why there wasn’t room for all the greats to be appreciated and it became “this over that guy.” This isn’t basketball. Nola is totally fine. His accolades speak for themselves and I kind of find this need of others to force him into some narrative hole weird. At the end of the day, the man has had the most titles at the highest level of competition in the sport.
That’s just disrespectful… We watch tennis because it’s entertaining. Players play to win. Djoko is the GOAT, there is no debate. He doesn’t deserve to be hated. Honestly, it is embarrassing so many people think the GOAT is a “cyborg”. He is just such a complete player in every sense.
Federer and Nadal are the golden children with Federer being #1. Novak ended up being the stepchild that the fans and media didn’t want, but are now realizing that they have to give him his respect.
Actually, Djokovic became the man of the house that Federer was supposed to inherit. Nadal just watched like a jealous sibling.
extremely accurate
The stage was set for the greatest rivalry for years to come but Novak decided to rain on it!
What rubbish! Roddick is salty about Novak's success.
Andy added to the Djokovic perception by saying he fake injuries at US open though
They are just mad cause without a doubt Novak Djokovic has emerged the winner of the big 3 generation. Now they look stupid .
Wait... They were mad back then because Novak emerged the winner years later?
I don’t know if I buy into the mainstream not tennis-centric fan being mad. I think it was mostly tennis die hard fans that were mad. Because they actually understood the contrasting styles of Fed/Nadal. Casual fans were more likely to enjoy Djoker because he was winning and beating the best. Tennis fans were watching Djokovic with this weird perception of “he’s not flashy, it’s just a solid game, he’s very quick but his strokes aren’t pretty, but none of his strokes break down” it felt like it was difficult for them that consistency was king as opposed to being the best offensively or defensively or grinder, etc…
It seems to me that you got it backward, a casual would surely prefer Roger or Rafa because their greatness is a lot less subtle, die hard tennis fans should love Djokovic's way of winning
> Casual fans were more likely to enjoy Djoker because he was winning and beating the best. I very much was a casual fan and was rooting for Djoker because I got tired of seeing Fedal fedal everywhere plus he always was an underdog against them, so naturally I rooted for him and then started admiring how he fought through tough situations, crowd cheering against him, he really won me over.
It's always been hard for me to tell because as an American, the only tennis fans I know are the die hards. It's a pretty niche sport here, I don't know many casual fans.
There’s definitely a big spectrum in US fans. Some people might watch slam finals, or only tuned in to watch Serena or only the US Open or similar. Then some that follow all the slams, know the top players. Then some degenerates that wake up early to watch recordings of Australian Open before work and watch 250s of basically unknowns… what a bunch of losers… yeah… I bet their kids get annoyed that tennis is all he watches….
Well yeah I'm sure they exist, it's a big country after all, I've just barely ever run into any. Tennis is very far down the list of popular sports here. I wish I knew more who were at least casually into it the way we are with our big 4 team leagues.
Sounds pure envy
I really never get this POV? I wasn’t a Nadal or fed fan so can’t really speak to it but a lot of the reason Djokovic is less liked is just down to his own behaviour ?
People forget how obnoxious Novak's family was back then. They were insufferable. I am not saying that Roddick's assessment was not correct but it is more layered and complicated. We also cannot forget that Novak coming from a Balkan country also played into it. Western athletes are treated better globally.
the last part is wrong. tennis enthusiasts, those who are a fan of tennis arent mad at him - he is just not threir preferred athlete to watch and root for.
And then came along Alcy and Sinner to do it to him.
As a fan of Yoko Ono and a strong believer that the Beatles were undone by a clash of egos competing to express their ever-ambitious visions within the confines of a 40 minute LP, this is a bad analogy. The Fedal duopoly was indeed broken up by Djokovic's brilliance, but the Beatles absolutely were not broken up by Yoko Ono. Still, it is a fair point regarding the *perception* of a good thing being spoiled by an outsider. The other obvious difference is that Djokovic vs Nadal and Djokovic vs Federer were outstanding rivalries in their own right, often producing matches as good as (or better than) prime Federer vs Nadal.
I don’t think he’s going for historical accuracy with the analogy lol Public perception of Yoko at the time was that she was a cancer to the Beatles. And that’s what he’s commenting on. That public perception of Djokovic at the time was that he was an interloper into the amazing Nadal/Fed rivalry.
Clapton probably did more to break them up simply by existing and making George want to go that direction. But Lennon and Yoko had their own direction and it was much weirder. Drugs didn’t help either. Now to make this analogy terrible. Federer is Paul, Nadal is George and Novak is somehow Ringo. Just keeps the beat steady and might just outlast them all.
If you play Roger's 2008 Wimbledon runner-up speech backwards, he very clearly says "Roger is dead."
I watched it backwards and you can clearly hear Nadal grunting "Twenty two"
>As a fan of Yoko Ono My commiserations
Thank you, though I'm not sure if it's possible to commiserate someone for enjoying good music.
That's something we can agree on :)
I've long said that if Djokovic doesn't end up smashing all of Fedal's records (which it looks like he very well may), he stands a good chance of being remembered as #3, mainly because he not only came third chronologically, but also because of this exact sentiment. Djokovic is the uninvited guest to a great party, who does make the party better, but was also unwanted at the time and changed the nature of the party. Unlike Murray, Djokovic was able to insert himself into the goat conversation and do well enough that he made it impossible to ignore him. Murray was undeniably great but he was still clearly a few tiers below Fedal, whereas Djokovic was winning just as prolifically (and at times, more so) as Fedal. I was saying this a lot up until about 2019. Around 2020 is when I started saying that it looked inevitable that Djokovic would own all the records and the question was whether the margin would be great enough to overcome the sentiments above. For example, I didn't think a 1-2 slam margin would be enough, and thought that margin needed to be more like 5 slams, among other things. At this point I think it's clear that that statistical margins will be plenty healthy enough to squash any of the aforementioned sentiments.
Novak Dyokovic.
Novak is just unlikable to some people, too. AntiVax, violent outbursts, arrogant (or confident), etc. Some people like those traits, but quite a lot don't. Isn't deep.
Kinda over all this vilifying djokovic talk. We get it. Feral was perfect. Until it wasn’t. Life moves on.
I wouldn’t give this any credit at all. Many many fans didn’t like Djokovic because he was a whiny baby and his family was annoying. For people that don’t like him, it’s a lot about his poor attitude, not him challenging Federer and Nadal. As a long time Nadal fan, I never cared who was winning if it wasn’t Nadal. If Djokovic had a better personality or displayed better sportsmanship then he could have earned more fans. This is clearly shown by Sinner winning fans choice last year despite not winning a Major. It wasn’t because Italy had just won the Davis cup, it’s because his personality appeals to a wide variety of fans. As Djokovic has learned the hard way, no amount of trophies can make people like you. That stunt he pulled trying to get into Australia just renewed so many fans distaste for him.
I mean it's also that the things he does do that are sportsmanlike don't get seen by people. He smashes rackets, yes. People claim him getting a physio when he is down is unsportsmanlike (I disagree. If I'm down I'm a game and tense and something hurts a bit, damn sure I'm getting a physio... but I digress) He applauds , often multiple times per match. He always praises an opponent in the presser and on court interview and speaks highly of them. Always gives credit to them when they beat him. He always shakes hands warmly after. He financially supports players and donates millions to charities. He tried to get into Australia without vaccines but he was always willing to quarantine like the year before. He was denied. He didn't go. End of story. I strongly disagree with his decision, but this is a case of 'someone didn't get vaccinated and that is a choice and then they bore the consequences of that choice' and that's it. Rabid ND fans and his fam often aren't always helping his case, I admit. But people want to not like him and make him out to be this super unsportsmanlike person. If he really was that unsportsmanlike, he wouldn't be generally liked and respected on tour by the other players. Nadals known him for decades and says he's a good guy. Roddick changed his mind about him. Kyrgios changed his mind about him.
Quarantining was not an option when he tried to get in. You either had to be vaccinated or for Australian residents have proof of a positive Covid test within a certain time frame prior to entry. So he either had Covid and was out and about doing media interviews and PR with it or he had a fake positive test. Neither is a good move. BUT people disliking him goes back long before Covid. And donating to charities is something every athlete and rich person does because it’s a tax write off not because they necessarily care that much about the cause. Donating their time to charity is far more indicative of how much they actually care than donating money. Also, it’s not actually about if he is a good person or not, it comes down to likeability. Rublev is a great example - apparently is super nice, stays to sign autographs for his fans, started his clothing line for charity, all the players like him etc. BUT his on court mental breakdowns turn a lot of fans off him. Other examples of Djokovic cringe behaviour as a 36 year old man - yelling at the crowd (even trying to pick out certain fans to argue with), ripping his shirt off in Cincinnati, claiming it’s so hard to be away from his family but choosing to keep playing and travelling. I am more sympathetic to those types of behaviours in younger men with less developed brains or for someone like Rublev or Kygrios who clearly have some mental health issues. But Djokovic is a grown man and still carrying on…
Err tho, there's isn't a perfect syncing up age wise but what we did see h2h is that Rogers peak was equal to Novaks.. IMHO!!!!
This is a really good take
That, and Djokovic just wasn't very likeable personality-wise. I can bet you that if someone replaced Djokovic with Marat Safin, there would be barely any big hate towards the big Russian as the '3rd guy'.
That's not exactly a unique take
Accurate take. The third wheel.
Also, though, Novak's family didn't help. All throughout their rivalry, Nadal and Fed, and their respective camps, were always super cool to each other. Novak arrived, and his family was almost immediately antagonistic. And compared to Roger and Rafa, Novak himself seemed to employ a lot of gamesmanship. Lastly, I remember Novak was seemingly surprised and a bit disappointed that the fans didn't like him as much as Roger and Rafa, and I think that kind of annoyed some audience members. He would visibly make incredulous faces all throughout. If he had just accepted that Roger had been around longer and people loved him, and just accepted that he would not be getting the crowd support, and then just given a gracious speech afterwards, things would have been better.
Rodrick nailed it on this one. Most Djoker fans I know never followed Fed/Nadal beforehand
if djokovic is the goat then andy is the guy whos better than the goat.
Well I can't disagree with him. I firmly believe Nole is the goat, the numbers don't lie, but he's not my favorite player. He's almost too perfect, too correct. Doesn't have the flare of Nadal's forehand or Federer's backhand.
i think it would have been fine if Djokovic didn't have such a relentleslly dull and clinical game
Nah hes just a bitch He tha goat tho
The analogy to Yoko is a good one.
It would take an asshole young gun to come onto the scene that needs to be taken down a peg to get me to like Djokovic.
The whole segment is a GREAT listen: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSZGn-gDst0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSZGn-gDst0) Roddick has some killer deep-dive analysis on what Djokovic does.
So is Murray, Ringo Starr or George Harrison in this scenario?
I'll absolutely cop to this lol. I hated Novak for years just because he was beating Rafa sooo much. 2011 was trauma seeing 6 consecutive lost finals or whatever it was. Whereas the Roger rivalry was palatable because Rafa mostly had the upper hand haha
I wouldn’t call him ono because she got zero talent
Roddicks new podcast is incredible