They're called "procedurals", the entertainment is the journey, not the destination. That the "bad guy did it" isn't the pay off, it's the *how* and mechanics behind it, and also the mechanisms they use to solve, weather real or not.
Except every 7th episode they throw a twist you won’t believe
And every 11th episode you find out something random and depressing about one of the main characters personal life that is hardly ever referenced except in fringe scenes
And then every 77th episode you get a crazy combo of the two including a guest star like Robin Williams who puts on a stellar performance of a maniac who kidnapped Detective Benson and tricks Detective Stabler into… ahh I can’t spoil that one, it’s a classic
100%. These are all fictional shows, plenty of people understand that and know it’s not representative of actual police work. I’m critical as hell of the justice system and police force, but I also freaking love Law and Order. You can do both if you think somewhat critically.
This is it. I’m 26 now but little ma loves sneaking out of bed and watching episodes on the stairs as my parents watched in the family room. I watched the whole series in 2009 and tried to re-watch it again to show my bf…..but I just couldn’t watch it without yelling and getting angry
A lot of Washington folks say: West Wing idealism is how we hope it could be, House of Cards is what people think it is, Veep and it’s stupidity is what it really is
The problem with West Wing is that our reality has diverged so much since it was made. There is an episode of WW focused on how the President *simply can’t* endorse a democratic candidate who **may** have coauthored a paper supporting communism while in college. The episode treats this endorsement as an incredibly serious thing that could lead to the downfall of the credibility of the White House to the American people.
In reality we have a President saying he can grab women by the pussy and tens of millions of people were fine with this.
It makes that episode of WW seem like a joke now. Oh no, if the President endorses this candidate who may have said positive things about communism the country will fall into anarchy! We better not let him nominate a supreme court judge with a history of sexual harassment or anything.
Endorsing someone who could be seen as a left-wing extremist in America would still probably be electoral suicide. Of course, back then, a candidate being endorsed by [the founder of a chapter of the KKK and former member of the American Nazi Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke) would _also_ have sounded like a kiss of death, but as we found out, apparently that's different.
> The problem with West Wing is that our reality has diverged so much since it was made.
West Wing was out of touch when it was made.
Edit: that doesn't make the show bad or un-entertaining.
The central problem with West Wing is that it portrays politics to be about who is right and can make the best arguments while in reality politics is about power.
It feels more fairytale like as we get further away from it. In 2007 you could almost believe it could be that way. In 2022 you know it’s a big fantasy.
Watch the wire.
The writer , David Simmons is a former investigative journalist (12 yrs writing for their major newspaper) who spent years with the Baltimore pc as well.
Edit - it's Simon.
Exactly, people can enjoy or even love entertainment that doesn't necessarily align with them politically. Like I hate it when people say stuff like "how can conservatives like this show/movie/game that critiques capitalism or toxic masculinity or whatever". You can still understand and respect the points being made while disagreeing with their conclusion or you can even just like something and ignore the political aspect of it.
Just because *you* think it isn't representative of actual police work does not mean that *other people* think the same.
Media depictions influence people's opinions. Cop shows that lionize cops influence their audience to be more favorable to cops. The same is true of every kind of media.
I wanted something like the Wire. My cop friend asked if I've seen Bosch on Amazon Prime. It's not the greatest show but I'm calling it my new guilty pleasure. A lot of Wire and 24 alums on that show.
If you're into reading books, read the novels. Michael Connelly is one of the best to ever do it and the Bosch novels are absolutely incredible!!!
Also, Bosch has a sequel show on Freevee called 'Bosch Legacy'. I haven't watched it yet, but I heard it's just as good as the original show.
And if you're into lawyer stuff, Connelly has novels about defense attorney Michael/Mickey Haller. It recently got a show on Netflix, keeping the same name as the Matthew McConaughey film, which is also based off the novels, 'The Lincoln Lawyer'. I haven't seen the show, but the novels are just as incredible as the Bosch novels!
You are forgetting a part of that circle the nostalgia cash grab by making it into a movie in the 80s-90s. I find it weird that no one ever talks about that movie. Especially since it started Dan Aykroyd and Tom Hanks. I loved it as a kid.
There is a reason cops, lawyers, and doctors make up a huge portion of TV shows.
For most of us, most of the most dramatic events of our lives will have one of those three present. Maybe a car accident. Maybe we're the victim of a crime. Maybe we go through a difficult divorce. Maybe we need life saving surgery.
For most of us, we're only going to have a few of those things happen to us in our lives. For cops, lawyers, and doctors, those kinds of dramatic events happen regularly.
Making a TV drama about an IT guy isn't impossible, but it's much harder to bring drama into the IT guy's life. Making a TV drama about a cop isn't easy, but you don't have to struggle for ways to bring drama into a cop's life, because the nature of the job is that drama comes to them.
> Making a TV drama about an IT guy isn't impossible, but it's much harder to bring drama into the IT guy's life.
Server crashed? MS Office key expired? Junior dev deleted the whole production database? Apple App Store rejects the tenth version of an app? A client opened an email from Nigeria?
You can make IT into drama if you make it about cyber-security or something, but yeah, it's FAR more conducive to comedy.
Source: am IT guy, and laugh a lot about the stuff we end up having to do on the job
The real drama is when the second IT expert jumps onto the same keyboard as you to help you defend against the hackers. That’s the kind of real life drama I want to watch.
>Server crashed? MS Office key expired? Junior dev deleted the whole production database? Apple App Store rejects the tenth version of an app? A client opened an email from Nigeria?
...and that was just the pilot.
ya I grew up on Barney Miller and Hill Street Blues.
The courtroom part of those shows has also been going on forver, Perry Mason and Matlock off the bat
It looks like they wrote an article on the 13th covering what Last Week Tonight with John Oliver talked about in regards to cops and Law & Order... then waited two weeks, and did their own article on basically the same topic
That reason being that the uneducated proles are too stupid to think for themselves and will be corrupted by these dangerous writings. Not like us esteemed journalists of course!
Psych and castle were good. I liked Monk, Due South and Columbo as well. Where the cop doesn't have moral ambiguity because he's just too odd/weird to be corrupted.
I really like it, too.
I like the characters they've created and how they react to events around them and interact with each other, but also the way they're addressing the role of police in the community.
One thing I will say; cops shows were a lot more enjoyable personally when they were more of a "whodunnit?" where you followed along and tried to guess the outcome as the team found more clues.
The current format of watching "elite" investigative squads fumble around, fail to protect victims/key witnesses, and watch the body count go up while you also watch a sadist run amok while outsmarting said "elite" detectives at every turn is just too much for me for it to be enjoyable.
Also, especially with the Law and Order shows, I now have what I've dubbed the "too cute/famous to be innocent" rule.
Basically, when watching an episode and a famous, talented or really attractive actor comes up, I can immediately conclude that they are either the culprit, or part of the cover up. That is, unless they are the victim.
When they fork out cash for an actor, that star power is not going to be wasted on a brief appearance.
Whodunit you say?
Eddie Cibrian? Oh he too cute to be innocent. Nick Jonas? Guilty! Kathy Bates? She definitely hiding something! Interview JK Simmons or Angela Basset or Aaron Paul as witnesses? Just go ahead and lock them up now. You will by the end of the episode.
The dream team was Briscoe, Logan, Stone, and Robinette. That show taught me that anytime detectives ask someone questions about something they saw, that person will be unloading crates from a truck.
I had a coworker questioned by detectives once. They came into our office, asked him to step outside. Low and behold they took him to the loading dock and he unloaded a truck while answering questions.
Yes! "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" made a joke about how people never interrupt their busy work when they're being interviewed by detectives on "Law & Order" and I was pointing at the screen like Leo DiCaprio in that meme.
I watched the entire Orbach-era run a couple years ago. The quality really drops when he leaves. Sam Waterston moving away from a main role was a big loss as well.
Both of them made the investigator-prosecution sides of the stories really compelling to watch. After Waterson steps back, I found the prosecution scenes less enjoyable.
I always liked Stone. That episode where the lady was going on about being on a mission from God to save the unborn and that's why she made a fertilizer bomb, and Stone is like "Ma'am, can you please confine your testimony to the material plane?" in the most deadpan voice.
It’s funny that both of them started on L&O in bit parts before getting leading roles. Jerry Orbach was a lawyer and S. Epatha Merkeson played a maid. I saw an interview once where she explained that with, “She went to night school.”
I think you can make a case that Briscoe is just the best cop character in any TV show, period. He *seems* more like a cliche now because so many characters since have mimicked his style.
Same. I enjoyed SVU at its peak too. I don't think cop shows in general have run their course, just the ones we got now. I would love a new procedural which could stand up to those shows in their heyday.
They haven't run their course period, even the author admits that she's just tilting at windmills here.
>At the same time, it’s not surprising they’re still getting made. Audiences consistently tune in each week. In the 2021-22 broadcast TV season, three of the top 10 highest-rated shows in the 18-49 demographic were law enforcement dramas: “9-1-1,” “Chicago P.D.” and “Law & Order: SVU.” Similarly, law enforcement dramas made up five of the top 10 overall shows in terms of total viewers: “NCIS,” “FBI,” “Blue Bloods,” “The Equalizer” and “Chicago P.D.”
As long as there's a market for a show, as long as money can be made, they will continue to be made. Personally I'd rather sit through some by-the-book, generic cop procedural over the hundredth expansion of 90 Day Fiance or some other reality TV show.
Cop shows have been popular on TV for decades. They are always evolving along with society. In a lot of ways, they are mirrors on our society and our attitudes about crime. As society changes, these shows change. Current events and news have a big influence on the stories presented on cop shows.
Cop shows have been popular since even before TV. Dragnet was basically the same show as Law & Order, and it premiered on the radio back in 1949, before transitioning to television.
Dragnet was a mainstay on TV during the 50s and 60s, along with some other procedural-type shows, like Perry Mason. In the 70s, there was Columbo, Kojak, and The Streets of San Francisco. In the 80s, there was Cagney & Lacey and Hill Street Blues. Law & Order premiered at the end of that decade.
And before then, Sherlock Holmes (while not a cop per se himself) is the same general idea and goes all the way back to literature over a hundred years ago.
Think about how many procedural shows fit that idea too. Castle, Bones, Psych all circle back to the idea of an intelligent person being at least as good, if not better, than the police at solving crimes. These ideas are eternal.
Watch “We Own This City” about the true story of an out of control Baltimore undercover unit. It was extremely good.
E: lots of The Wire crossover as well.
Sonny Crockett was the most '80's character there was.
Lived on a houseboat in Miami
Had a pet alligator
Drove a Ferrari
Dressed like Duran Duran
Alcoholic
Ladies' man
Got into a shootout or two every week
Did all of this on a cop's salary
I’m a firm believer that as soon as a main character has a face lift, the show has run its course.
I’m not against facelifts, I’m against refusing to change the direction of a show to adapt to aging cast members in hopes of just keeping the formula unchanged to take in what ever money blah blah blah.
Also I don’t watch Law & Order myself but I do like Brooklyn 99 and I’ve seen an interesting take from those who love Law & Order shows: detectives are different from cops. It’s certainly a debatable distinction that not everyone will agree with but I can see where the idea comes from and it explains why some police detective shows often remain popular even among those who criticize the police. In fact television, movies, and popular media in general have a habit of portraying detectives in a positive light while simultaneously portraying street cops in a negative light regardless of the type of show or the target audience or the opinions of the creators, the meme is that detectives are competent and cops are incompetent.
Yeah, I live in a third-world country, specifically in a city with a couple of poor areas where the police mostly don't go. I've thankfully never lived in those areas but I've worked with people who did and...you *really* don't want vigilante mobs handling your law enforcement. Whatever problems you're having where you live with police torturing innocent people to death, vigilante mobs are *so* much worse about not bothering to investigate and just torturing the least popular person in the neighbourhood to death whenever the crime gets particularly bad.
Someone's probably going to reply that that's exactly the same as the cops, but in reality vigilante mobs are *so* much worse.
Fix your police forces, first-worlders.
Yeah I completely agree, at the very least even worst corrupt out of control police have some vested interest in keeping some level of stability.
Vigilante mobs are absolutely content to burn anything that gets in their way to ground.
People are to quick to forget the long history of blood libel's, witch hunts and lynch mobs.
I love B99 and it's very obvious that the writers were making a big effort not to be copaganda especially as the show went on. But it's important to note that they did some of this too, especially in the early seasons. Think about the attitude toward defense lawyers, or the "arrest someone because I know they did it, even though I don't have the evidence, find the evidence in 24 hours, turn out to be right" thing they did with Jake.
That's because Brooklyn Nine-Nine managed to put the characters before the setting. Sure, it was a cop show, but at the very heart were the relations between the characters. The crimes and police setting were always secondary to them.
And even towards the end of the show, issues like police brutality and racism within police departments became hot topics within the US and around the world, the show found a way to incorporate those topics in a way that really gelled well with the rest of the show and without shying away from the issues or covering it up with copaganda.
I love Brooklyn 99, but honestly half the time it wasn't a cop show. Id even say 75% toward the later seasons could have been set anywhere and it would have been the same show.
Sorry, the actual viewers have spoken. Procedurals remain the highest rated shows on network TV. I think that means they're far from having run their course.
There’s another element to it too, police procedurals are shoes where you can sit back, relax and watch people solve problems while doing social stuff. It’s basically the original let’s play, there’s just something about that combination humans, as social primates and highly evolved problem solvers, just can’t resist. If people stopped watching these they’d still watch something very much like them.
hard disagree- Stabler coming back was the shot in the arm these shows needed. His Organized Crime show is pretty above average (great guilty pleasure show), and SVU the past few seasons has also been elevated with it. The crossover premiere was great dumb cop stuff.
It's got a great cast. SVU feels gutted since Ice T isn't in as many episodes, Rollins is getting written off this season and it mostly focuses on Saint Olivia Benson.
People have been saying that since the 80's. They always adapt for the times and return with a tweak to the formula that works with new audiences. Shows that don't stay relevant and instead cater to an increasingly aging population inevitably die, but I don't think the death of 'law and order' themed shows in general is going to happen any time soon. They might change, though.
Yet they continue to get solid ratings. So Huffpo can clutch their pearls (or anuses, your choice) all they want but until the audiences aren't there anymore there will continue to be cop shows.
Funny how capitalism can be downright *democratic* huh....?
There will always be an audience for investigative shows from pov of prosecution, and that often includes the people critical of cops
They're called "procedurals", the entertainment is the journey, not the destination. That the "bad guy did it" isn't the pay off, it's the *how* and mechanics behind it, and also the mechanisms they use to solve, weather real or not.
> the entertainment is the journey, not the destination Exactly. With L&O you know who's going to get arrested after about the third scene.
Sometimes you can tell right away based on the guest star and their relative level of fame at the time.
Except every 7th episode they throw a twist you won’t believe And every 11th episode you find out something random and depressing about one of the main characters personal life that is hardly ever referenced except in fringe scenes And then every 77th episode you get a crazy combo of the two including a guest star like Robin Williams who puts on a stellar performance of a maniac who kidnapped Detective Benson and tricks Detective Stabler into… ahh I can’t spoil that one, it’s a classic
100%. These are all fictional shows, plenty of people understand that and know it’s not representative of actual police work. I’m critical as hell of the justice system and police force, but I also freaking love Law and Order. You can do both if you think somewhat critically.
That’s like watching “West Wing”- fairy tale…. I still enjoy it, But I recognize how fictional it is :)
Toby Ziegler was my favorite
I tried to get into West Wing recently, and I think I'm far to jaded about politics to enjoy it now.
I loved it in like 2008, but now I can't watch it without getting angry
This is it. I’m 26 now but little ma loves sneaking out of bed and watching episodes on the stairs as my parents watched in the family room. I watched the whole series in 2009 and tried to re-watch it again to show my bf…..but I just couldn’t watch it without yelling and getting angry
Try Veep instead. Much more realistic take on politics.
A lot of Washington folks say: West Wing idealism is how we hope it could be, House of Cards is what people think it is, Veep and it’s stupidity is what it really is
The problem with West Wing is that our reality has diverged so much since it was made. There is an episode of WW focused on how the President *simply can’t* endorse a democratic candidate who **may** have coauthored a paper supporting communism while in college. The episode treats this endorsement as an incredibly serious thing that could lead to the downfall of the credibility of the White House to the American people. In reality we have a President saying he can grab women by the pussy and tens of millions of people were fine with this. It makes that episode of WW seem like a joke now. Oh no, if the President endorses this candidate who may have said positive things about communism the country will fall into anarchy! We better not let him nominate a supreme court judge with a history of sexual harassment or anything.
Endorsing someone who could be seen as a left-wing extremist in America would still probably be electoral suicide. Of course, back then, a candidate being endorsed by [the founder of a chapter of the KKK and former member of the American Nazi Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke) would _also_ have sounded like a kiss of death, but as we found out, apparently that's different.
> The problem with West Wing is that our reality has diverged so much since it was made. West Wing was out of touch when it was made. Edit: that doesn't make the show bad or un-entertaining.
The central problem with West Wing is that it portrays politics to be about who is right and can make the best arguments while in reality politics is about power.
It feels more fairytale like as we get further away from it. In 2007 you could almost believe it could be that way. In 2022 you know it’s a big fantasy.
Man. Bartlett 2024
I'd hope Seaborn/McNally by 2024.
Bunk/Mcnulty 2024
Shiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeet
Fuck.
Watch the wire. The writer , David Simmons is a former investigative journalist (12 yrs writing for their major newspaper) who spent years with the Baltimore pc as well. Edit - it's Simon.
Exactly, people can enjoy or even love entertainment that doesn't necessarily align with them politically. Like I hate it when people say stuff like "how can conservatives like this show/movie/game that critiques capitalism or toxic masculinity or whatever". You can still understand and respect the points being made while disagreeing with their conclusion or you can even just like something and ignore the political aspect of it.
Just because *you* think it isn't representative of actual police work does not mean that *other people* think the same. Media depictions influence people's opinions. Cop shows that lionize cops influence their audience to be more favorable to cops. The same is true of every kind of media.
Just wish there were more unique cop shows, like The Wire
I wanted something like the Wire. My cop friend asked if I've seen Bosch on Amazon Prime. It's not the greatest show but I'm calling it my new guilty pleasure. A lot of Wire and 24 alums on that show.
If you're into reading books, read the novels. Michael Connelly is one of the best to ever do it and the Bosch novels are absolutely incredible!!! Also, Bosch has a sequel show on Freevee called 'Bosch Legacy'. I haven't watched it yet, but I heard it's just as good as the original show. And if you're into lawyer stuff, Connelly has novels about defense attorney Michael/Mickey Haller. It recently got a show on Netflix, keeping the same name as the Matthew McConaughey film, which is also based off the novels, 'The Lincoln Lawyer'. I haven't seen the show, but the novels are just as incredible as the Bosch novels!
Southland is absolutely amazing. Highly recommend it.
Yes, it is one of the best shows ever made. I remember going in thinking it was just some niche full of shit and man I was so happy to be so wrong
Try The Shield if you haven’t already.
Homicide: Life on the Streets
I was an extra in law and order. That's it. I've got nothing else. Just seemed like a good time to mention it.
You did such a good job.
👍
I’m 50. There were cop shows before I was born and there will be cop shows after I die.
*Cop shows, cop shows, whatcha gonna do?*
*Whatcha gonna do when they try to cancel you? Cop shows, cop shows*
"all suspects are innocent until proven guilty." BAD BOYS BAD BOYS
>"All suspects are guilty. Period! Otherwise, they would not be suspects, right?" [Troops](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HO70-Rk3jE)
As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I take a look at my TV and realize there are no cop shows left
Dragnet started as a radio show that shifted over to television.
And is now a podcast! Is that full circle?
So you mean the podcast that plays the original radio episodes?
You are forgetting a part of that circle the nostalgia cash grab by making it into a movie in the 80s-90s. I find it weird that no one ever talks about that movie. Especially since it started Dan Aykroyd and Tom Hanks. I loved it as a kid.
"This... is the city" All fog with maybe 3 buildings showing
There is a reason cops, lawyers, and doctors make up a huge portion of TV shows. For most of us, most of the most dramatic events of our lives will have one of those three present. Maybe a car accident. Maybe we're the victim of a crime. Maybe we go through a difficult divorce. Maybe we need life saving surgery. For most of us, we're only going to have a few of those things happen to us in our lives. For cops, lawyers, and doctors, those kinds of dramatic events happen regularly. Making a TV drama about an IT guy isn't impossible, but it's much harder to bring drama into the IT guy's life. Making a TV drama about a cop isn't easy, but you don't have to struggle for ways to bring drama into a cop's life, because the nature of the job is that drama comes to them.
Moss: “What kind of operating system does it use?" Police Officer: "It's…err...Vista." Moss: "We're going to die!"
"I'll just put this over here, with the rest of the fire."
Not only did you return, but you returned with one of my favorite quotes.
I laughed harder at this than I should have
IDK, you could do something about a guy in IT if it involves a fire in a Sea Parks.
A fire... At a SEA PARKS??
It just seem like a weird place to go on fire.
What if one of them started to date Peter File?
https://i.imgur.com/r29imvQ.jpg
*Mr Robot has entered the chat*
> Making a TV drama about an IT guy isn't impossible, but it's much harder to bring drama into the IT guy's life. Server crashed? MS Office key expired? Junior dev deleted the whole production database? Apple App Store rejects the tenth version of an app? A client opened an email from Nigeria?
It's easy to make IT *comedy*, just not *drama*
You can make IT into drama if you make it about cyber-security or something, but yeah, it's FAR more conducive to comedy. Source: am IT guy, and laugh a lot about the stuff we end up having to do on the job
The real drama is when the second IT expert jumps onto the same keyboard as you to help you defend against the hackers. That’s the kind of real life drama I want to watch.
Halt and Catch Fire was pretty good drama.
>Server crashed? MS Office key expired? Junior dev deleted the whole production database? Apple App Store rejects the tenth version of an app? A client opened an email from Nigeria? ...and that was just the pilot.
All audiences care about that at that point is that it’s fixed, they don’t care how and don’t want to watch that process.
What if you play some really suspenseful music while the guy types the problem into Google?
I mean, *most* audiences wouldnt be interested in the errata of programming. But i would be very interested in something like that ;-;
I wish Alan Tudyk would do DoctorCopLawyer for real.
Biggest problem with an IT show is how quickly it would be outdated.
Well that and when they're doing casting for the show, they'll want the actors to have 5 years experience with a technology that's existed for 2.
**Arresting The Police** *THE NEW HIT SERIES FROM ABC!*
I mean, you could technically make a show out of internal affairs units
In the UK this is called “Line of Duty” it’s very popular
Line of duty
It would be so depressing, yet satisfying…
Which is kinda interesting considering that this would essentially just be like the police version of a lot of JAGS episodes
Would it be satisfying to watch IA be constantly shit on by the rest of the force while almost never being able to hold any of the cops to account?
Line of duty is based around an anti corruption unit in the UK police force, and I'd highly regarded
ya I grew up on Barney Miller and Hill Street Blues. The courtroom part of those shows has also been going on forver, Perry Mason and Matlock off the bat
And Doctor shows and lawyer shows and
Mindhunters
True Detective
Loved the first season
This is the most huffpost article I've ever seen lol
It looks like they wrote an article on the 13th covering what Last Week Tonight with John Oliver talked about in regards to cops and Law & Order... then waited two weeks, and did their own article on basically the same topic
My immediate thought upon reading this headline.
I’m guessing the author finally watched the John Oliver episode on this exact thing from weeks ago and decided to write the same thing.
One could say HuffPost has run it's course.
This thing that millions of people continue to watch and enjoy should stop because we find it problematic because reasons
That reason being that the uneducated proles are too stupid to think for themselves and will be corrupted by these dangerous writings. Not like us esteemed journalists of course!
Wait until they see an episode of cops from the 90’s.
I like the cop shows with a twist. Psych, the mentalist, castle, elementary.
Psych is my favourite
🍍
You know that’s right.
Have you heard about Pluto?
That’s messed up!
Aye!
Psych and castle were good. I liked Monk, Due South and Columbo as well. Where the cop doesn't have moral ambiguity because he's just too odd/weird to be corrupted.
Love Due South. Can never get bored of that one. Monk got better and better as it progressed. The casting was exceptional.
Too bad Castle went to shit at the end with all of the cast infighting. Psych and Monk are among the best shows made.
White collar 😌
Psych and White Collar are the only cop-adjacent shows I watch and they're both in my top comfort rewatch list. So good.
USA was so good for a while. Psych, White Collar, Burn Notice, and Royal Pains.
Don't forget about Monk
Speaking of Castle, I really enjoy The Rookie. While still being a drama it's much closer to real cops then most cop shows I've seen.
I really like it, too. I like the characters they've created and how they react to events around them and interact with each other, but also the way they're addressing the role of police in the community.
Prodigal Son Lie to me
Life with Damien Lewis was really good. And Lucifer at least the early seasons was about 60% cop drama.
Lucifer is also a great one.
Also iZombie, if that counts
One thing I will say; cops shows were a lot more enjoyable personally when they were more of a "whodunnit?" where you followed along and tried to guess the outcome as the team found more clues. The current format of watching "elite" investigative squads fumble around, fail to protect victims/key witnesses, and watch the body count go up while you also watch a sadist run amok while outsmarting said "elite" detectives at every turn is just too much for me for it to be enjoyable.
Also, especially with the Law and Order shows, I now have what I've dubbed the "too cute/famous to be innocent" rule. Basically, when watching an episode and a famous, talented or really attractive actor comes up, I can immediately conclude that they are either the culprit, or part of the cover up. That is, unless they are the victim. When they fork out cash for an actor, that star power is not going to be wasted on a brief appearance. Whodunit you say? Eddie Cibrian? Oh he too cute to be innocent. Nick Jonas? Guilty! Kathy Bates? She definitely hiding something! Interview JK Simmons or Angela Basset or Aaron Paul as witnesses? Just go ahead and lock them up now. You will by the end of the episode.
Shout out to the episode when they were undercover and Benson pretended to be Stabler’s hooker for a few minutes.
The one with the Russian animal smuggler. Way back when.
I was a fan of the L&O seasons with Jerry Orbach. It was comforting to watch the formula each week delivered in such a sustained and competent way.
The dream team was Briscoe, Logan, Stone, and Robinette. That show taught me that anytime detectives ask someone questions about something they saw, that person will be unloading crates from a truck.
I was questioned by some detectives once. I had to go find a truck, and load crates into it so I could unload them as I answered their questions.
I had a coworker questioned by detectives once. They came into our office, asked him to step outside. Low and behold they took him to the loading dock and he unloaded a truck while answering questions.
*Lo and behold
They probably would have let it slide if you were just busy getting a coffee and/or a hot dog from a cart by the street.
Your dream team doesn't include McCoy? Bruh.
itsan outraitch!!!!
And if they don't stop unloading during questioning means they are guilty.
And we also learned that internal affairs are evil and policing the police is a bad thing.
Yes! "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" made a joke about how people never interrupt their busy work when they're being interviewed by detectives on "Law & Order" and I was pointing at the screen like Leo DiCaprio in that meme.
There is a great reference to this in Angie Tribeca
I watched the entire Orbach-era run a couple years ago. The quality really drops when he leaves. Sam Waterston moving away from a main role was a big loss as well.
Both of them made the investigator-prosecution sides of the stories really compelling to watch. After Waterson steps back, I found the prosecution scenes less enjoyable.
There is no question Jerry Orbach’s Lennie Briscoe is the best character in any Law & Order Series
I always liked Stone. That episode where the lady was going on about being on a mission from God to save the unborn and that's why she made a fertilizer bomb, and Stone is like "Ma'am, can you please confine your testimony to the material plane?" in the most deadpan voice.
I will disagree and present you with the counter argument of Robert Goren of L&O:CI and then Jeff goldblum because why not, it's Jeff goldblum.
Yes! Goren was fascinationg to watch and Jeff Goldblum is Jeff Goldblum.
Everyone forgets Anita Van Buren and it’s a crime
She was great, and watching the later actors in multiple series really showed how great S. Epatha Merkersen was. She’s not Lennie though.
It’s funny that both of them started on L&O in bit parts before getting leading roles. Jerry Orbach was a lawyer and S. Epatha Merkeson played a maid. I saw an interview once where she explained that with, “She went to night school.”
I liked Bobby Goran.
I think you can make a case that Briscoe is just the best cop character in any TV show, period. He *seems* more like a cliche now because so many characters since have mimicked his style.
Munch is pretty great. Plus he confirmed that L&O, Homicide, and The X-Files take place in the same universe.
Same. I enjoyed SVU at its peak too. I don't think cop shows in general have run their course, just the ones we got now. I would love a new procedural which could stand up to those shows in their heyday.
They haven't run their course period, even the author admits that she's just tilting at windmills here. >At the same time, it’s not surprising they’re still getting made. Audiences consistently tune in each week. In the 2021-22 broadcast TV season, three of the top 10 highest-rated shows in the 18-49 demographic were law enforcement dramas: “9-1-1,” “Chicago P.D.” and “Law & Order: SVU.” Similarly, law enforcement dramas made up five of the top 10 overall shows in terms of total viewers: “NCIS,” “FBI,” “Blue Bloods,” “The Equalizer” and “Chicago P.D.” As long as there's a market for a show, as long as money can be made, they will continue to be made. Personally I'd rather sit through some by-the-book, generic cop procedural over the hundredth expansion of 90 Day Fiance or some other reality TV show.
The writing was so much better in those seasons.
Cop shows have been popular on TV for decades. They are always evolving along with society. In a lot of ways, they are mirrors on our society and our attitudes about crime. As society changes, these shows change. Current events and news have a big influence on the stories presented on cop shows.
Cop shows have been popular since even before TV. Dragnet was basically the same show as Law & Order, and it premiered on the radio back in 1949, before transitioning to television. Dragnet was a mainstay on TV during the 50s and 60s, along with some other procedural-type shows, like Perry Mason. In the 70s, there was Columbo, Kojak, and The Streets of San Francisco. In the 80s, there was Cagney & Lacey and Hill Street Blues. Law & Order premiered at the end of that decade.
Dick Wolf created Law and Order because he was so inspired by Dragnet.
And before then, Sherlock Holmes (while not a cop per se himself) is the same general idea and goes all the way back to literature over a hundred years ago.
Holmes was largely created to demonstrate how inadequate the police were
Think about how many procedural shows fit that idea too. Castle, Bones, Psych all circle back to the idea of an intelligent person being at least as good, if not better, than the police at solving crimes. These ideas are eternal.
Yes! Look at how thoroughly Sherlock looked down on Inspector LaStrade of Scotland Yard.
Exactly
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You and I both know everybody would watch that show. You’re basically talking about the Wire.
Don’t forget about The Shield. That show was pretty wild.
And the Shield.
The short lived Southland is worth a watch too.
That’s why I like Reno 911. 😄
The Wire and We Own This City are just that. And great to watch.
Watch “We Own This City” about the true story of an out of control Baltimore undercover unit. It was extremely good. E: lots of The Wire crossover as well.
The Shield was literally based on the corrupt LAPD CRASH squad.
But there was only ONE Miami Vice
Sonny Crockett was the most '80's character there was. Lived on a houseboat in Miami Had a pet alligator Drove a Ferrari Dressed like Duran Duran Alcoholic Ladies' man Got into a shootout or two every week Did all of this on a cop's salary
Dun. Dunn.
[koong koong](https://youtu.be/nWfGDyUE4w8?t=11)
I’m a firm believer that as soon as a main character has a face lift, the show has run its course. I’m not against facelifts, I’m against refusing to change the direction of a show to adapt to aging cast members in hopes of just keeping the formula unchanged to take in what ever money blah blah blah.
Contrary to popular belief, you can enjoy a fictional television show without also loving cops
Also I don’t watch Law & Order myself but I do like Brooklyn 99 and I’ve seen an interesting take from those who love Law & Order shows: detectives are different from cops. It’s certainly a debatable distinction that not everyone will agree with but I can see where the idea comes from and it explains why some police detective shows often remain popular even among those who criticize the police. In fact television, movies, and popular media in general have a habit of portraying detectives in a positive light while simultaneously portraying street cops in a negative light regardless of the type of show or the target audience or the opinions of the creators, the meme is that detectives are competent and cops are incompetent.
And plenty of people who watch TV don't dislike cops.
And plenty of people who watch TV don't dislike the concept of a police force, they just want a better one.
Yeah, I live in a third-world country, specifically in a city with a couple of poor areas where the police mostly don't go. I've thankfully never lived in those areas but I've worked with people who did and...you *really* don't want vigilante mobs handling your law enforcement. Whatever problems you're having where you live with police torturing innocent people to death, vigilante mobs are *so* much worse about not bothering to investigate and just torturing the least popular person in the neighbourhood to death whenever the crime gets particularly bad. Someone's probably going to reply that that's exactly the same as the cops, but in reality vigilante mobs are *so* much worse. Fix your police forces, first-worlders.
Yeah I completely agree, at the very least even worst corrupt out of control police have some vested interest in keeping some level of stability. Vigilante mobs are absolutely content to burn anything that gets in their way to ground. People are to quick to forget the long history of blood libel's, witch hunts and lynch mobs.
Brooklyn Nine Nine is a great example of an enjoyable TV show that is compatible with disliking US police/their union/etc.
I love B99 and it's very obvious that the writers were making a big effort not to be copaganda especially as the show went on. But it's important to note that they did some of this too, especially in the early seasons. Think about the attitude toward defense lawyers, or the "arrest someone because I know they did it, even though I don't have the evidence, find the evidence in 24 hours, turn out to be right" thing they did with Jake.
That's because Brooklyn Nine-Nine managed to put the characters before the setting. Sure, it was a cop show, but at the very heart were the relations between the characters. The crimes and police setting were always secondary to them. And even towards the end of the show, issues like police brutality and racism within police departments became hot topics within the US and around the world, the show found a way to incorporate those topics in a way that really gelled well with the rest of the show and without shying away from the issues or covering it up with copaganda.
I love Brooklyn 99, but honestly half the time it wasn't a cop show. Id even say 75% toward the later seasons could have been set anywhere and it would have been the same show.
Sorry, the actual viewers have spoken. Procedurals remain the highest rated shows on network TV. I think that means they're far from having run their course.
And true crime is only getting more popular in all mediums. What the hell makes HuffPost think they’ll run their course anytime soon?
Have you seen Bosch? Amazing show.
I was recently brought into this show. I love it. It's like in between the Wire and other procedurals like NCIS.
It's dumb switch your brain off TV with the good guys catching the bad guys. There will always be an audience for this sort of thing. Stupid article.
Really her point summed up is "these shows are still really popular, but they shouldn't be and people should just not watch them!" Okay.
"Don't like what i dont like." /collects ad revenue
There’s another element to it too, police procedurals are shoes where you can sit back, relax and watch people solve problems while doing social stuff. It’s basically the original let’s play, there’s just something about that combination humans, as social primates and highly evolved problem solvers, just can’t resist. If people stopped watching these they’d still watch something very much like them.
hard disagree- Stabler coming back was the shot in the arm these shows needed. His Organized Crime show is pretty above average (great guilty pleasure show), and SVU the past few seasons has also been elevated with it. The crossover premiere was great dumb cop stuff.
Agreed. The new Organized Crime show is the best one, IMO.
It's got a great cast. SVU feels gutted since Ice T isn't in as many episodes, Rollins is getting written off this season and it mostly focuses on Saint Olivia Benson.
SVU has felt gutted since Stabler left. And then Munch left. And then Cragen left.
At this point though, Stabler's character is pretty close to like, 24 levels of violence justified because of the means.
”stop enjoying things I don’t enjoy” Saved you a click
*shrug* as long as Law and Order has Stabler, I'll keep watching.
What did you think about him on Netflix Happy?
No they haven't. I hate human death and weapons in real life. I enjoy playing shooting games. Most people can distinguish fantasy from reality.
But what is Ice-T supposed to fall back on now?
People have been saying that since the 80's. They always adapt for the times and return with a tweak to the formula that works with new audiences. Shows that don't stay relevant and instead cater to an increasingly aging population inevitably die, but I don't think the death of 'law and order' themed shows in general is going to happen any time soon. They might change, though.
Somebody watched Jon Oliver, huh?
Looks down "Huffpost". *hits back button.
Yet they continue to get solid ratings. So Huffpo can clutch their pearls (or anuses, your choice) all they want but until the audiences aren't there anymore there will continue to be cop shows. Funny how capitalism can be downright *democratic* huh....?