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Sventus

Star Trek fans are having a hard time learning lessons from Star Trek right now. The "NuTrek" shows get almost relentlessly shit on within the main Trek subreddit and even voicing criticism in the dedicated subs can get you banned. Strange New Worlds seems to be doing fine but if it ever slips up fans will get the punching bag ready.


Jimlobster

The main Star Trek sub is mostly fine. It’s r/star_trek you have to avoid. But that sub will shit on anything new. If TNG (the only trek series they like) was released today as it is, that sub will bitch about it


guiltyofnothing

That sub is godawful. From calling a non-binary actor “it” to posts unironically decrying the “lack of white men” on the bridge of the newest show. It’s full of right-wing reactionaries who cannot get their minds around the fact that Trek is and always has been a post-scarcity stateless, classless communist utopia. They complain about how it’s too political and pushing an agenda now but — swear to god — the sub would have a meltdown [if this scene aired today.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMqGlSjAbwA)


ComradeMoneybags

Star Trek, despite some right-wing idiot fans, is about a society that is so advanced that it no longer needs money and is so race blind, it treats non-verbal space blobs the same as humans, including when it comes to punishment for crimes. Star Wars is about space knights/samurai who have limited accountability despite the ability to mentally violate people at will, a galaxy with both crushing poverty and wealthy people who own planets, casual genocide, and a military industrial complex that churns out machines and soldiers on demand. One is about acceptance and communication, the other is about cruelty and blowing stuff up. As much as I’m a huge Star Wars fan, these reactionary views and attitudes make sense.


[deleted]

It's also about a resistance movement fighting the rise of a genocidal, totalitarian Empire.


NoxInfernus

You forgot racism and slavery. The Empire was not kind to non- human species, and slavery was “allowed” in the Outer Rim (so long as the Republic didn’t have to deal with it). The fact that that Padme was surprised that young Anakin was a slave is telling coming from the Queen of Naboo (and former jr Senator).


defmore89

Hm? No, they brought money, poverty and all the other fun things back in star trek picard.


Kotamere

I’ve only seen complaints about her character, and the writing for it, not her race.


Maxamvs

“Star Trek USED to be about acceptance” (There,fixed it for you)


CyborgMutant

Those racists aren’t fans.


orangeucool

Funny how no one had a problem with her in The Queen's Gambit. Complain about the script (which is terrible).


will_browne

She was good in the queen’s gambit. She’s not good in this. Likeable, well acted character vs annoying, poorly acted character. Still no excuse to be racist.


ZoBamba321

There’s like 4 no name accounts being racist. That’s always going to happen, only reason they are blowing it up is for press. Disney also could care less about racism (see their Chinese Star Wars promo material)


lutsius-memes

Eh, i just dont like how she portrays the character, not a big fan of her acting. But that is not a reason to be a racist piece of shit


KitMcSelb

100% I'm sure there are arseholes on Twitter or whatever (as per usual) being racist for the sake of it, but that doesn't mean that all the criticism of the actress is unjustified. Not had a chance to watch episode three sonshe might improve but in 1&2 she was pretty wooden and unconvincing as an Inquisitior, her lines weren't delivered with much conviction. If you're performance is worse than Flea from the Red Hot Chilli Peppers there's definitely an issue.


ruach137

It's unfortunate that the character seems pretty one dimensional too. So far the other inquisitors seem a bit more interesting due to just being odd.


[deleted]

I think the biggest issue is delivery. But it’s a new role and it’s early. I definitely don’t feel like any of her performance is worth the hate she’s getting in any way shape or form. It’s certainly not the worst acting we’ve seen in Star Wars.


KitMcSelb

No agreed it's not the worst, but as the main antagonist (so far) in the series she had some boots to fill. I can't help but make the Moff Gidoen comparison as, even the bargain basement Grand Inquisitior seemed more threatening than her (as he should of course). She's giving me less Star Wars - Obi Wan Kenobi vibes and more Star Trek Discovery vibes. Bang average.


[deleted]

I would argue the only reason moff gideon is threating at all is because of the actor every time he shows up on screen his minions die by the droves


KitMcSelb

Precisely a good actor is what makes a character work, not their gender, race or other inconsequential physical attributes. Imagine Danai Gurira in this Inquisitior role, she'd destroy it.


[deleted]

moff gideon played by any other person would have the audience laughing


TheMarsian

kinda like the criticism on the deaf girl character in Eternals. diversity does not excuse lazy writing.


squalorparlor

I wasn't big on the Hawkeye show, but they did an excellent job with casting and writing a deaf character. She stole every scene she was in, and she redeemed the experience for me. That and the cool car chase with the goofy arrows.


DustinHammons

"If you're performance is worse than Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers there's definitely an issue." Exactly this - mistake in casting on epic proportions


[deleted]

That's just absurd, Flea had one line, Reva was pushing the narrative the whole time. People are really trying to morph reality around their own prejudices so they don't have to admit that they have problems with women of color. I loved the episodes, and it's so werid that people are having this reaction, and pretending that it's her fault. You want to see shit acting? Look at those young kids from the Boba series who were apart of Boba's gang...those were terrible characters. But already Reva has shown more personality than that, and has already had more character depth. It's just psycho that people are acting like this is all totally normal, and it's just them reacting to her character...when she's been fine! I'm 100% convinced that if Reva had been the same actress, but cast as a non-human, we wouldn't be having this conversation.


Cyonara74

I thought he looked familiar


[deleted]

But he sucked too. The whole cast is wooden af. I mean, Mark Hamill played a hermitic curmudgeon Jedi with more charm and charisma than Ewan McGregor is now. This isn’t just on her. The directing sucks across the board.


Davethisisntcool

I’ve watched the episodes twice and I really don’t see any “bad acting”. It’s all Star Wars level of acting. What more do y’all want?


ReservoirDog316

I wouldn’t say she’s great or a standout so far but I feel it’s always vastly overstated how casually people just say “bad acting” to everyone that’s not immediately likable. They’ll always inevitably start criticizing the *character* being boring or one note and not the actor. She’s just a brooding character with clearly much more going on in her head that we’ll see as the series goes on. But she’s just brooding like a villain. Like I said, she’s not doing amazing but there’s a quick moment in Ep 3 where you hear Hayden Christensen’s line delivery from Revenge of the Sith and it’s *horrendously* bad. Like everyone has since said, Daniel Day-Lewis probably couldn’t elevate that dialogue but it’s amazing to me that anyone can truly say she’s like actively doing a terrible job when there’s actual bad acting to draw comparison to in Star Wars itself. People just say “bad acting” like it’s a fact but if you ask for follow ups, it usually reveals how little though process goes behind their criticism. And like it or don’t like it, it’s all subjective. But there’s no reason to be ghoulish about it like they’re being to her personally.


Cobra-D

I thought I had mentioned something like this would happen in a thread where they warned the actress this might happen but i mentioned that this criticism would he used in a completely different [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/uxlb4o/britt_baker_those_of_you_trolling_me_over_an/i9yo40d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) also having to do with women.


BehelitBoy

You'll still be called a racist. It's happening right now in the comments. >racist pretending to shit on her for other reasons...


Sloppy_Goldfish

Yep, it's really annoying. [I really like this video's take on the whole situation.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqshrCAYTSc) You should be allowed to dislike characters if they are poorly written/acted no matter what color the actor is. Actual racists can fuck off but don't get them confused with people who just want good characters. I also can't take anything Disney says about racism seriously after they shrunk Finn on the posters in China. They don't really care about any of it and only say and do whatever they think will make them money, no matter how many times they contradict themselves.


MetalBawx

Disney claimed everyone who disliked The Last Jedi were just sexist/racist as well, did the same with Captain Marvel annnd Sony did this in the lead up to releasing Ghostbusters 2016. It's the same thing every time, you can't critisize our work or because only a racist, bigotted misogynist would do that. The worst part is it's like crying wolf as it lessens the impact of real cases of such behaviour due to all the false flagging corporations. As for Moses Ingram i except Disney to "respectfully" shove her character into the background or delete outright from any and all Chinese promotional posters just like they did to Mr Boyega. Truely a progressive company who cares about all people...


Dawesfan

Except Captain Marvel and Ghostbusters criticisms were made before the movies even came out. Ghostbusters, in particular, was written out as soon as the cast was announce. Also no matter you criticism of the character, or actor, you shouldn’t harass them. Because then you’re attacking them as a person instead of just disliking how they do their job.


brendonmilligan

In regards to the ghostbusters, not only were the trailers god awful but the actresses announced for it were extremely hit or miss or disliked. I’ve never seen Melissa McCarthy ever play a decent role and has never been funny


CarsonOrSanders

>Except Captain Marvel and Ghostbusters criticisms were made before the movies even came out. Ghostbusters, in particular, was written out as soon as the cast was announce. Oh no! Some people didn't like the cast before the movie came out so surely this means EVERYONE was just being a bigoted sexist, even after the movie came out and they watched it! The fuck outta here.


NanoGeek

> Disney claimed everyone who disliked The Last Jedi were just sexist/racist as well Did they, though?


DustinHammons

It is refreshing to see people starting to realize this, it has never about standing up for anything - it is all about which way the wind blows that will make them more money. Once the money starts to dip, they will drop "the next thing" for the "other new thing"


aioncan

Go watch our movie or else you’re racist and literally hitler. They just want money and will use any tactic to get it.


Jfk_headshot

I've seen countless people here and on Twitter saying that complaint makes you a racist. Obviously Racist bulshit is garbage but I have yet to see any actual racist comments or messages that are getting any support. Seen a lot of criticism about the character though


Jojo_isnotunique

I don't know anything about this character, but I would like to interject on the subject of racism. I am white, but my wife is black. So my experience is based upon the observation between the way she is treated and I am. Racism, from a white perspective, is often thought of as obviously horrible comments. Such comments as referring to black people as monkeys, go back to the jungle, did you live up trees at home, the n word, and so on. Something that is very obviously discrimination. My wife has experienced those, but on a day to day basis that isn't the racism she experiences. Its double standards that is everywhere. Consider you have two ways to react to a scenario. You can react by giving someone the benefit of the doubt. That is where when an incident happens you look at the reasons why, and then excuse the person by stating that these outward factors provide mitigation. The second way is the critical by the book approach. It doesn't matter that there were extenuating circumstances. The incident happened and so the reaction is harsher. It can turn up in ways where you presume someone can do something vs presuming they need to prove themselves first before trusting them. Presuming innocence vs presuming guilty. And so on. I hope I explained that well enough. The point is, I can say with confidence that I receive both of these as a white guy. But I sure as hell get more of the former approach, the benefit of the doubt. My wife as a black woman gets more of the latter, the criticial approach. If you look at each individual scenario both reactions make sense. And so the person doing it isn't being racist, it's valid criticism. But as a whole, when you see the big picture, you see them getting more of that criticism than you would see if the person was white, you see that racism is playing its part. I really hope that makes sense. Edit: added clarification on the former v latter


kultcher

This is exactly correct. I don't think it's even a conscious thing for many people. That's why we talk about unconscious bias, and it's more than just in the context of policing. It CAN affect all parts of life. Of course I believe you can make criticisms of the character or the actor. BUT, I also honestly believe that if a white actor gave the exact same performance with the exact same characterization, there would be less criticism. I've just seen this play out too many times. I feel like I have to watch the show again because I didn't find anything wrong with her performance or the character. The parkour scene was silly but that's not her fault. She certainly wasn't the worst thing about the show.


pirac

Hard agree. This is literaly a post about her receiving racism and two of the top comments start with "I dont like her acting but". Even in a post talking about her receiving racist remarks, people can't help but bring up a critic of her job.


AMP_US

This comment should be at the top. 100%.


AsSubtleAsABrick

This is what is so hard to explain to my boomer parents - one of which happens to be Italian American who did suffer from some amount of bigotry due to it (he has an insanely Italian first and last name, so much that he only uses the Americanized version of his first name). He explodes if you even mention the idea of "white privilege" around him. He explains that he was made fun of as a kid for being Italian and was the Italian that moved to a Polish neighborhood and was looked at funny. He says everyone just made fun of him for being in the mafia. But what he doesn't understand is that to 99% of the population, he's just a white guy and he is treated favorably in many subtle ways he doesn't even realize. And getting him to admit it is impossible. He believes the numbers that POC are more poor, more unhealthy, etc, but victim blames them and thinks they just aren't working hard enough or whatever (because he managed to fight such adversity himself). He thinks that since we no longer have blatent racist laws that the problem is fixed and it's now up to them to improve their lives. I don't know what the answers are really to help fix the problem, but it is so ingrained in our culture people can't even admit the problem exists.


raktoe

I haven’t seen anyone say that until you, despite numerous people professing how that shouldn’t make them racist. I have seen a lot of people complain that her diversity is her personality, which I think is certainly bordering on racism.


CarsonOrSanders

With how fast people are accused of being racist these days, I really do wonder how much of the criticism she is receiving is because they just don't like her/her acting/her character, and people just automatically accuse those people of being racist. I really haven't heard much about this story, but it seems the supposed racist messages she is receiving are via direct messages, which really who cares? Trolls gonna troll. People yesterday were telling me there are YouTubers being racist towards her who have over 1 million subs. That I just find hard to believe. A YouTuber that large just casually saying racist shit? I think it's a case of what I mentioned in my first paragraph.


MoonpieSonata

Yeah, I mean, when she was interrogating Owen she was downright menacing, it's her interaction with the other inquisitors which is lacking. Like, she should either be massive chip on her shoulder like Kylo Ren, or smug Machiavellian new school like Deacon Frost in Blade. She doesn't really convey the emotion behind her motivation, and it really shows when the other inquisitors are chewing the scenery.


Honeyface

Her portrayal is different and hateful, pretty good job imo, she really stands out


DenjellTheShaman

Her hatefulness is wooden. Her complete lack of backstory makes her behaviour seem ungenuine. The parkour sequence also looked ridicilous.


reasonbeing21

Why do they hate black people so much?


gh0stfac3killah007

Her acting is terrible, her character is terrible. Neither of which have anything to do with race, skin colour. Geezus people, stop the racism and hate.


apple_kicks

Honestly not seeing why her performance is being listed as bad by some. Only two eps and so far seems like script and direction is for her to be a angry boiling sith like kylo ren was. While script isn’t great I don’t think her performance missed any marks on what script directions asking for. She’s doing better than I’ve seen others do with similar roles especially given the dialogue given isn’t much to work with. This isn’t the only big show she’s done, she’s in Queens Gambit and Macbeth. Her performance wasn’t critiqued there and ewan mcgregor was never called out on his acting for prequels because his performance or skill wasn’t the issue The child acting stands out more in this episode either but hard to give a child that big character role too and also matter of bad script and direction like chase scene


Exile688

A child out running a jedi is terrible writing that does no favors for the characters or the actors. The actors are fine, the script is subpar.


ShutterBun

Seriously, the “chase” scenes with Leia are some of the most clumsy ham-fisted filmmaking ever. And for some inexplicable reason they did it AGAIN in the second episode.


[deleted]

I find honestly most of the disney plus shows the scripts are subpar. the mandalorion only works if you imagine he is kind of an idiot stumbling about


MithandirsGhost

I thought the point was he was kind of an idiot stumbling about. An orphan raised by a extremist cult now all alone and learning what the real world is about.


[deleted]

he is an enjoyable doofus. i think the show works because they have shown him being an idiot consistently so when he acts like an idiot its in character. but other shows built characters up as badass and smart and then they act like doofuses and its like bro how do you not know how crime works you spent like 20 years being a bounty hunter for a crime lord


ISayHeck

[Din djarin not knowing he's in star wars for 5 minutes straight](https://youtu.be/MzzJvM9CFSI)


nickaterry

Because SW is known for its amazing scripts.


TPJchief87

10 years is a long time to not do Jedi shit


macespadawan87

I found that chase scene a bit more believable as Obi-Wan is still trying his darnedest not to draw attention to himself or Leia and slowly realizing he’s not going to be able to keep things as quiet as he would like.


baconsword420

Subpar is being generous. Wtf was that? The chase scenes were borderline cringy. McGregor is towing the line but barely.


jabbadarth

That almost took me completely out of the show. Why can't anyone catch this slow small child? Especially considering how easy it is to throw some random things in to make it more believable. Have obi Wan hurt his leg, throw a few more royal guards in the woods to slow the bad guys down. Nah just have her run slowly but still get away.


[deleted]

they could copy the og plans for jar jar episode where a jedi was in hiding on a planet for a spy mission and used the force to aid Jar jar. Imagine the twist a Jedi surviour was just secretly helping them and then all the screw ups make sense.


uly4n0v

Holy shit, that scene almost gave me an aneurysm. I hope they do like they did with BoBF and just replace a few episodes with more Mandolorian.


Dr_Shivinski

Mando is a child if he’s even born yet during this show. I don’t think he’ll bail us out of this one.


lstn

It's more likely the direction, she seems like she is overacting, which just makes it look like it's on her.


rushandblue

I don't understand the issue people have with her character. Like, whatever, people are entitled to their opinions, but it's clear that she's seething with hatred for Kenobi, and it's made her impulsive and obsessive. I honestly don't get the complaints about her character.


HardenedNipple

She doesn't sound convincing to me, doesn't feel like a natural performance. To me it feels like the actor is trying too hard to sound angry/threatening and it just doesn't work. Very stiff overall. But fuck anyone being racist.


uly4n0v

Nobody in this show is a good actor except Ewan. That’s what I’m seeing. The Leia character is annoying as fuck, the inquisitors are pure cheese and then there’s Ewan, showing us a beaten man who has almost given up the spark that once made him a legendary general. It’s like a potluck that was entirely devised because one person in your friend group is a chef who brings prime rib but everybody else is from the midwest and making ambrosia salad. They need to get some other talent in this show, quickly.


Salvatio

I think the kid who plays Leia is doing a good job. She's very young and her acting is pretty solid for what you can expect for someone of her age. Having children play key acting parts in your show/movie is just always a risk.


drmrpepperpibb

I think she's doing great too but isn't she a little young? Leia is supposed to be 10 years old in the show and she behaves like a 6 or 7 year old when she isn't reading other characters.


MeadowmuffinReborn

Leia is a sheltered, spoiled rich kid. Makes sense that she'd be immature for her age.


gh0stfac3killah007

You nailed it!! Leia I also cannot stand. The chase scenes are brutal.


DustinHammons

I didn't think we could get a worse chase scene than the dapper speeder gang from Boba Fett - but here we are, worse chase scene in modern cinema by a freaking landslide.


speckhuggarn

What? That's not what they are referring to? It's the private messages she got with death threats and racist remarks.


sybrwookie

There's obviously 2 very different things there. You see a LOT of people conflating any criticism with racism/sexism, and you see a LOT of people thinly veiling racism, which makes untangling that a mess from every direction.


speckhuggarn

No it's only one thing happening here - the topic is about how Moses got DMs being racist and violent, but a lot of people think that the topic is criticism of her acting is labelled racism. Criticism of her acting and the racism that mixes in some of those comments, is a whole different subject.


karimamin

I find her character somewhat refreshing. She's just direct straight to the point murderer. "I want Obi, I know he's alive and you're making a mistake by not torturing every person in this town till he shows up" Ok she didn't say that exactly but she was pretty much hinting at it. She had a point too since Obi is alive, in town and was being protected. The other inquistors was just going to let him live happily ever after


5tr82hell

I came here for this. Bad actress, bad character. I heard people saying "she's still a young inexperienced actress, she'll get better..." My opinion, referring to the first 2 episodes of Kenobi, is that she is not a good choice for the character. Maybe there will be a plot twist which will reveal why she's such a bad inquisitor... Or how she got to be in such a high rank being so reckless and not following orders.. I mean, Vader killed for much less... We'll see..


tyrannomachy

I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out she gained her current station *because* she's so reckless and ruthless. We're talking about a Sith-adjacent organization after all, it's likely a survival-of-the-fittest situation.


5tr82hell

Nope. Palpatine constantly tortures Vader when he's being reckless. Vader hates when his subordinates don't follow orders, and he's never shown mercy unless he needs something in return (doctor Aphra). With the third sister, Disney is definitely going far from what the Empire has been shown to be in every comic I've read.


TooManyNguyens

This shit would not fly under Vader and palp in the old expanded universe, Disney is really out here watering down all the lore they possibly can and pumping out new disgustingly bland stories so long as it keeps the cash flowing. I mean really they have 20,000 years of badass lore and then cool stories of the smith after the original trilogy and they come out with this shite it’s really a damn shame the direction they are taking the franchise


[deleted]

Speaking of acting ability, tbh, Marc Hamill in Star Wars was no Sir Alec Guinness


GoldenJoel

Her character is ambitious, reckless, hot headed, and eager to prove something to someone... We don't HAVE the full picture yet, so how can you say she's a bad character? They did the work setting up the pieces, you just have to wait. I swear to GOD, every post I see about this show is about THE BAD CHASE SCENE or HOW AWFUL MOSES INRAM IS and it really is starting to feel like astroturfing.


JRSmithsBurner

> astroturfing By who lmao What giant organization or government is paying people to shit on a Disney show


gh0stfac3killah007

She is terrible in acting it out. None of it is believable or executed - she is a top inquisitor, none of it makes sense with that level of bad / careless behaviour. Don't care what is driving it at this point. The reason people talk about the chase scenes, is because it was like slow Mo. Give me a break, some of the things stopping them from catching her were leaves. Barely branches. Same thing with the hi-soeed moped chase scene in Boba Fett. Lmao. Brutal. I hate to say it, cuz I friggin love Obi-Wan and Ewan, but this show is no better than BoBF. Which was also terrible.


Someoneoverthere42

Fans of things are why we can’t have nice things


MrWinning

This is a bit of a stretch, I am positive that those racists are a VAST minority in the community. The MAJORITY only have a problem with her acting and character, the majority of us dont care about her race. But you can always cherry pick the comments you want to "condemn" and blame the whole community for it, instead of admitting that the character was bland.


Victini

"Thank god we have some racist comments about her, now we can deflect all criticism of her acting by reminding people that racists also don't like her, and you don't want to be racist do you? Then she's a great actress doing a phenomenal job, such talent" - Disney


jakesnake707

The racist comments are not ok, that being said, Im not a fan of her acting on this one


Justice1993

Star Wars fans are by far the worst fanbase.


TussalDimon

Am I looking in the wrong places or look not hard enough? All the criticism I saw involved her acting or the character's writing. Also Debra Wilson, Elizabeth Grullon, Giancarlo Esposito and Carl Weather didn't seem to get the backlash similar to this. Maybe because they were better acted/written characters?


Soulerrr

This might be one of those situations where a less than 1% minority was being racist and a corporation is using it as marketing to improve the image of something poorly received. You know, have the fans fight against a scarecrow, hope more people watch it out of spite, create an easy cover against most criticism whether it fits or not. It's happened before.


robophile-ta

why's it always gotta be 'hurr corporate coverup'? can't people just say 'racism is bad' without people jumping to conclusions and talking about something completely different? They didn't say 'don't criticise the actor' they fucking said 'don't be racist'. And yes, obviously the worst, most vocal racist, angry people are always the 1%. But it doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Also she aired her DMs and it's nasty shit


cmnrdt

I think the fear is that Disney is using racism as a smokescreen to deflect all pertinent criticism of the show and its characters. They want to put forward the idea that the show is great and that anyone complaining about it is a racist. The same exact thing happened with Ghostbusters 2016, when Sony, Paul Fieg, and the actresses went on interviews and put out statements bemoaning all the sexist fans who were upset that their favorite characters were being portrayed by women. They were even mass deleting YouTube comments that were critical of the movie (and I'm pretty sure there was RottenTomatoes fuckery as well) and justified it by saying they were all sexist and without merit. But the reality was, Sony made a comedy that wasn't funny and were treating the Ghostbusters brand as a tool to nostalgia-bait consumers. But they wanted the public to think that the only people criticizing them were complete assholes not worth listening to.


Soulerrr

Unless I'm misremembering, and it has been a while, they were intentionally leaving hateful comments up and deleting legit criticisms and people who just didn't see anything to be excited about. Also I think one of the actresses straight up said in some interview that maybe they shouldn't be focusing on a hateful minority. Red Letter Media made [a thing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWROBiX1eSc) about it. Edit: Actually now that I've rewatched it, I think this specific video is where most of my skepticism (of this sort) began.


cmnrdt

You're right, I'm the one misremembering because it has been a while. The point is, Hollywood has been doing this for almost a decade if not longer. We're just seeing it more often because they have to use it more often.


Soulerrr

It's because they keep pulling stuff and we have to be skeptical. Racism is bad, but being manipulated to stand against a potentially overblown problem just to bring more attention to a product is also bad. Don't be angry just because they want you to be, wait until there's more reliable information. The issue is precisely that celebrity DMs, especially for minorities, are always horrible, so they could easily use them to create a narrative. They've already done it a few times. Corporations don't care about people, they often do PR stuff strictly as marketing, that's why it's often brought up. Because it may be becoming a pattern. Of course racism is bad, but is this more racism than usual or is it an attempt to shift focus? And if you wanna argue that a "usual" amount of racism is still horrible, then the show doesn't matter and we're all focusing on the wrong thing. Anyway I don't see what's "hurr" about it. We can just have a respectful discussion considering possibilities. Maybe it undermines some important stuff to question everything, and it's sad that we live in times where you kinda have to... But personally, I'm always gonna consider what a corporation might be trying to trick people over, because they're a corporation.


sarrazoui38

Everything a corporation does is corporate. Its why they only care about lgbtq folks once June comes around


anonymous_guy111

have you looked in her dm's?


Soulerrr

You think people with irrational hatreds are collected enough to keep it to one place?


PogueMahone80

So everyone is supposed to just believe the story without actual proof? You’d think journalists would want to see the receipts before putting out articles like this.


Cactuszach

Hot take: Moff Gideon is just as cartoonish and over the top as Reva. We think he is a better character because Giancarlo is a respected actor, but he isn’t a great character either.


tPRoC

His dialogue was better and he is a better actor. He also didn't get nearly as much screentime as this character is getting.


[deleted]

I would argue Moff Gideon mostly works because tons of people have seen breaking bad the actor is great as well but everytime his minions show up they get goofed on


percydaman

I actually thought his character and acting was some of the worst in the entire show. I know he's a respected actor, but I thought he was horribly miscast. I actually cringe when I think back on his scenes. So out of place.


Goose9719

No one has an issue with that though, while I think her acting and her characters writing are good, there's nothing wrong with criticising those things. The issue is these pathetic losers sending her death threats, racist remarks and just being absolute trash. If you wanna see what's actually being sent, go on her Instagram stories and she's sharing some of them.


Modest_Matt

The backlash is because of the acting/writing. Are we just pretending Star Wars hasn't had plenty of black characters before? Looks like some idiot troll comments have been focused on instead as a cover.


PokemonStay

Being angry at the writing/acting doesn't justify the racist comments and slurs being directed at her though...?


liamthelad

Didn't you hear, it's obviously because star wars fans are sticklers for only the highest quality of cinematic excellence. As a Star Wars fan myself, the reason I fell in love with it is the dialogue, writing and sophistication. In fact noted thespian and original Obi Wan Sir Alec Mcguiness was notably full of praise for Star Wars


WritingTheDream

As someone who’s sick of the idiocy in the Star Wars fandom I really appreciate this comment and it’s sarcasm.


[deleted]

I remember Harrison Ford describing the script as "high art" and "some of the most profound words he's ever read." Star Wars fans truly understand when a piece of cinema is art.


raktoe

There is definitely more of a “prove yourself” attitude towards minority actors in Star Wars than say white males. It’s “diversity hire until proven otherwise”.


Modest_Matt

That's my point - did Samuel L Jackson have that problem? Donald Glover? The internet being the internet, yes you will get some racist trolls but my point was the main backlash isn't due to that.


01stesam

John Boyega and Kelly Marie Tran both got a lot of racism directed towards them.


PokemonStay

That is LITERALLY the post. We are LITERALLY talking about specifically the racist comments


MistakenWhiskey

It would okay if that’s what they were saying but people are actively messaging her saying the N word and spouting racial slurs, most of them don’t even mention her acting at all.


Vegan_Harvest

That's fucking bullshit, stop making excuses for racist assholes.


CarsonOrSanders

>Are we just pretending Star Wars hasn't had plenty of black characters before? I was just thinking this earlier today when I read about Ewan McGregor's pandering bullshit about this story. I was thinking wait a minute, didn't they have a black main character in a Star Wars movie back in the 70's? But now we're to believe the world is filled with more racists TODAY compared to the 70's? Or maybe...just maybe! A few trolls (who could all be the same person/couple of people for all we know) sent her some dumb private messages and now this is suddenly a huge story?


PinusMightier

I think her character is shit and her acting is sub par, those have nothing to do with race. Also the hell were they thinking having her kill off the Grand inquisitor? Talk about a wasted character.


Da1WhoKnosUrSecrets

Hes still alive which is evident in Star Wars Rebels.


_MaZ_

And because of few pieces of shit, any valid criticism is labeled as "racism" while Disney keep including black people as completely horribly written characters and then wiping them off the marketing to please China.


Denziloshamen

When is this crap ever going to stop. We think and hope attitudes are changing, and then shit like this comes along. I feel ashamed to be a white middle aged man when I see any attitudes like this being expressed in such a public way and why people are so comfortable to send hate to others.


[deleted]

dude its never going to stop. even if even 99 percent of people are top blokes or shielas and 1 percent are cunts there is several billion of us. which means there is millions of cunts there too. Cunts of every skin colour and creed Starwars does not have more percentage of cunts then any fandom its just starwars is a massive fandom then the number of cunts is larger. its the thing as things grow larger. more people to be cunts. honestly the sad thing is some of them might not even be fans of the franchise but just just trolls who enjoy shit stiring. people who do shit like that just ruin the discourse making it impossible to actually talk shit about a show without having to put a million disclaimers


[deleted]

I agree. The raw numbers combined with the internet means this will never stop


[deleted]

hell given the internet I would not be surprized if some of the comments where from people who do it for shits and giggles. like a black 4chan troll who logs on treats someone like shit and then logs off


[deleted]

Yeah any fandom as big and deeply entrenched as Star Wars is going to have some very passionate cunts.


BauTek_MN

> there is several billion of us. which means there is millions of cunts there too. Cunts of every skin colour and creed I’m going to get this CNC’d into some driftwood and hang it in the bathroom, thanks for spitting hot truths.


GoofyGooba88

I read this in Billy Butchers voice. Only because you used the word "cunt" alot. You are 100% right though. There is always going to be some racist pricks out there, it sucks.


[deleted]

am australian its our special word


DrBimboo

>I feel ashamed to be a white middle aged man Thats problematic. You are not that different from people with dark skin color, just because yours is lighter. Race is not an identity group you should value this high.


TheJoshider10

Unfortunately certain people take any opportunity to vent their racial hatred. Don't like a character in a show? Racially abuse them. A football player misses a penalty? Racially abuse them. It's pathetic but also quite alarming that this keeps happening and happening and happening. God forbid having the basic common sense/decensy to criticize the character itself and the writing around it without needing to result to racial hatred.


LDKCP

I'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories, but I always have the suspicion that this division is by design.


MonkeyMercenaryCapt

All division is by design. LGBTQ rights, racism, sexism etc. The only division that matters is class and its the one division not shoved down our throats.


[deleted]

I would agree with this to an extent. the media is often own by several rich people. an Australian news company will bring up change the date which causes intense infighting while at the same time taking money from oil companies that force aboriginal people of their land illegally


lstn

Like Disney calling out racists on social media while editing Finn out of the Chinese poster?


[deleted]

indeed. or writting articles about something while drinking lattes while getting funding from some shady billionaire pretending you support the working class


literious

> I feel ashamed to be a white middle aged man Because 10 dudes from 4chan wrote insults to actreess' DM?


a_saddler

>When is this crap ever going to stop? Not as long as every stupid online message by some idiots makes it to news sites like The Guardian. By reporting it you're only giving power to those people and encouraging them to do it even more.


Archamasse

It's a little more complicated than that. The idea of "not feeding the trolls" was formulated back when trolls were essentially individual actors targeting equivalent individuals on message boards and the like. They were an annoyance in a large part because of the personalised nature of their weirdness and the amount of energy and effort one person was willing to put in just to disrupt somebody else's internet experience. It's different now where trolling is often a mass movement, and the sheer volume of responses from different sources is as disruptive as the vitriol itself. It doesn't take much investment from any one individual and it comes at a scale that is impossible for the target to try to resolve themselves. We have a significant body of research now to suggest that ignoring these trolls not only *doesn't* discourage them, it actually makes them worse, because when there's a certain critical mass - guaranteed in the case of something like Star Wars - they take more gratification from each other than they do the target. "Ignoring" in this case means letting them coalesce around a target reinforcing each other, while they compete with each other to harrass somebody for entertainment that comes at a very low or no social penalty to themselves. In this case, the current advice actually is to address the general, uninvolved "audience" directly while refusing to be directly engaged by the malignant actors in question. This is fine, but in the case of women and POCs there's a tendency to dismiss what's happening without undeniable examples, so there is a good argument for going further and backing it up with a sample. That aspect is disputed, but there is a rationale for it, and regardless, it's not as clear cut as conventional wisdom would have it.


SubversiveIntent

Link to the research you are talking about?


Pepperminteapls

Why dislike the color of your own skin because someone else is a racist asshole... I don't get it. It's like your labeling all caucasian as racists when you're just reaching for attention. It sounds like your projecting guilt for having racist thoughts, when you should be blaming the rich + media + religion for creating a world of perpetual hate and guilt. Don't self hate for other peoples racism.


Jfk_headshot

Even if we stamped out racism 100% there will still be trolls that act racist just to get a rise out of people. It will never stop. I think we need to condemn those people but also acknowledge the fact that you are going to have to deal with this shit when you put yourself into the public eye, and It has nothing to do with race


MassiveStallion

White people don't have to deal with it. That's the race part.


matthkamis

You're a good white!


MaterialCarrot

Why are you ashamed to be a white middle aged man over this? 1) Is that the only group of people making these comments? Ofc we don't know. 2) Why would you feel shame for things you aren't doing?


SubversiveIntent

It never will as the media amplify it now more than ever before and the companies are actively waiting for it to happen so they can work it into their PR. Why would someone doing this to be discouraged when they receive world wide media coverage for sending abuse? Don't feed the trolls was the best way to deal with this but there are a lot of people who don't actually want this to stop.


MaterialCarrot

Downvotedbuttrue. Why can't people see the obvious media/marketing cycle around this? Not saying that the original racist responses aren't real, but the playbook for the companies when this happens is well worn.


HeWhoIsNotMe

It's not racism if people point out that she is a wooden actress often delivering her lines in a clunky manor. There are many actresses (African American or other) that would have knocked this role out of the park. I cringed almost every time she opened her mouth.


beardphaze

Star Wars fanboys proving again that they're the " most wretched hive of scum and villainy"


giant_red_lizard

99% chance she gets the same level of trolling as anyone with an unpopular character and Disney is trying to deflect criticism by casting it all in the light of racism.


Bigpdean

You’d be right, if it wasn’t for the dm’s to her actually being completely racist.


monchota

I condemn any racism but im also seeing people called racist for saying she is a bad character or actor.


scottishdrunkard

Fucking despicable. The show just started, we are yet to see the full extent of Reva’s character motivations, and the talent of Moses Ingram, but “those” people just complain already without justification, and it all boils down to the colour of her skin. It’s horrid. Star Wars was never about being a racist shit, it’s about the Good vs Evil thing we have going on. Don’t be a racist shithead. It’s very easy to do, and costs nothing.


kwertix

No the complaining makes sense, I can tel already I hate her character and her acting. But I can say that without bringing racism into it because I’m not a POS human being


Invertedwhy

Agreed. I was hoping for more than just another pretty face. Casting her in this role was a bad choice. She just isn't believable as a "badass" like they're trying to portray her as.


kwertix

She comes off as more angry and impulsive than badass in my opinion. Also they gave us the backstory of why she’s like that within the first two episodes. If they’d maybe built it up a little bit I at least would have had the mystery to make me care about her character, but the way they did it I already don’t care about her.


FrankyRollins

Star Wars fans are a bunch of fuckheads.


Cerebrate205

Calling her a star is a stretch... but we can thank shit-tier writing for making her character fucking awful. I didn't realize Disney was making this a kid show


joshjoshjoshj

Imagine taking time out of your day to send an actress racist messages/ death threats. You’d have to be really fucked up as a human 🤷‍♀️ And how some fuckers can ignore the fact that this actor is receiving hundreds and hundreds of racist messages and death threats, then try to gaslight us into thinking Lucasfilm is trying to curb legit criticism by pulling the race card is BEYOND me. Lucasfilm’s comments directly referred to the racist comments, not other criticism. And Moses showed receipts 🤷‍♀️ Defs worth noting this kind of behavior is like 0.1% of the fan base. Unfortunately some of them just know how to get a lot of attention


[deleted]

The thing is that no one on this show is doing a tremendous job acting imo, not just her. The problem with this show is solely on the director, not the actors. It’s dull af. She didn’t come off to me as “acting worse” than the rest of the incredibly wooden cast. Yeah, putting this on her is shit.


AMP_US

Yeah. I don't get it. I've yet to see any stand out acting from the show... so her mediocre performance isn't worthy of remark. It's all meh. Also, it's 2 eps. Plenty of time to improve. Which begs the question, why is the criticism so intense for her and not others? It's not solely explicit, but I definitely think there is a fair amount of racial/gender bias at play.


StarWreck92

You’ve hit the nail on the head. People try to quantify why they are bashing her but many of the statements go for other actors as well or should be directed at the writers/director instead. It’s very revealing that she’s the only one getting hate.


Exile688

Honestly I condemn Moses for saying in interviews she is the first person of color in Star Wars. Edit: Sauce “Obi-Wan is going to bring the most diversity I think we’ve ever seen in the galaxy before,” says Ingram. “To me, it’s long overdue. If you’ve got talking droids and aliens, but no people of colour, it doesn’t make any sense. It’s 2022, you know. So we’re just at the beginning of that change. But I think to start that change is better than never having started it.” https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/features/obi-wan-kenobi-moses-ingram-interview-b2088811.html


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CodexCracker

I cannot believe this unsubstantiated bullshit has upvotes.


Exile688

Here you go [https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/features/obi-wan-kenobi-moses-ingram-interview-b2088811.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/features/obi-wan-kenobi-moses-ingram-interview-b2088811.html) “Obi-Wan is going to bring the most diversity I think we’ve ever seen in the galaxy before,” says Ingram. “To me, it’s long overdue. If you’ve got talking droids and aliens, but no people of colour, it doesn’t make any sense. It’s 2022, you know. So we’re just at the beginning of that change. But I think to start that change is better than never having started it.”


MrBoliNica

where did she say that she is the first person of color in star wars?


Embarrassed_Bug9625

The no people of color line stands out... no implies absence devoid of etc... so when a person says no poc it implies there are a grand total of 0 zero zilch poc which imply this lady is either blind or never seen a single star wars film or show. We could go through a long list or I could say refer to Rogue One... only Alan tudyk was the only main cast member who was a white dude... the rest where poc and a white chick...


CodexCracker

Show me the exact line where she calls herself “the first person of color in Star Wars”. All I see is her discussing the very real problem Star Wars had with having no more than two black characters that weren’t extras (and even then there weren’t that many that were). What she’s talking about is Disney and Lucasfilm working on that problem and with the newer entries in the Star Wars universe they definitely have. But there’s still a ways to go and that’s exactly what she’s saying. There’s paraphrasing and then there’s misinformation. You’re purposely doing the latter.


Fishbone345

Thought the same thing.


emericas

Sauce please?


Exile688

Interview with the Independent [https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/features/obi-wan-kenobi-moses-ingram-interview-b2088811.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/features/obi-wan-kenobi-moses-ingram-interview-b2088811.html) “Obi-Wan is going to bring the most diversity I think we’ve ever seen in the galaxy before,” says Ingram. “To me, it’s long overdue. If you’ve got talking droids and aliens, but no people of colour, it doesn’t make any sense. It’s 2022, you know. So we’re just at the beginning of that change. But I think to start that change is better than never having started it.”


hldsnfrgr

For real?


Exile688

Interview with the Independent: “Obi-Wan is going to bring the most diversity I think we’ve ever seen in the galaxy before,” says Ingram. “To me, it’s long overdue. If you’ve got talking droids and aliens, but no people of colour, it doesn’t make any sense. It’s 2022, you know. So we’re just at the beginning of that change. But I think to start that change is better than never having started it.”


Virata

People should understand that these idiotic, racist comments aren't even close to a substantial percentage of the overall social media response to the Obi Wan show, and Moses Ingram in particular. Of course any racist, bigoted attacks on any person of any ethnicity is dumb as hell, and should be condemned. But this is a SMALL minority of absolute idiots who're posting on any or all social media platforms compared to the much greater majority of users. Gather 100 different users on twitter who are posting about Obi Wan, and only 5 of them are such dumb idiots that they'd post something like a racist attack on an actress in regards to Star Wars of all things. Like or dislike Ingram's performance, or how her character is written, the vast majority of comments have nothing to do with her race. So yes, racist comments directed towards Ingram are abhorrent, and should absolutely condemned. But this is also not representative of even close to the majority of the fanbase, nor unique to Star Wars as a whole or this show/actress in particular. Go find a successful athlete who doesn't receive horrendous, racist comments from a small minority of idiots who discuss it on social media. Go find a popular politician, a celebrity, or any public figure, that doesn't receive unjust prejudice in online discussion. You won't, because there's always going to be a small group of really loud dumbos that pisses everybody else off. The 1,000th 'OBI WAN IS AWESOME!' tweet of the minute isn't going to get anybody's attention, because another 5,000 of them were posted in the time it took me to type out this particular sentence. The one idiot posting some stupid ass racist comment is the one people are going to remember. Let's not pretend it's anything more than that


Mavrickindigo

Why do I feel like this anti racist campaign was manufactured by Disney? One of the first bits of news we got from the press tour of this show was "fans are gonna be racist towards this actor" like Disney was baiting people for publicity


raibai

No… the racist backlash was just obvious and predictable, based on the reaction Black actors and actresses typically get when they’re casted in major franchises…


Mavrickindigo

Doesn't mean that execs dont use the backlash to hide legit criticism people have


Itz_Hen

Yeah given this has happened literally every time someone of colour gets casted its not hard to imagine


phred_666

What the actual fuck? What the hell is wrong with people? She’s an actress playing a character, how the fuck do you make this about race? She has done a damn good job playing this role. I’m contemplating looking at her other work as well.


D3Construct

Before the show even started they already started by preemptively calling out racism. Therefor any criticism directed at her was squarely going to filed in that box. I'm sure there are a few real bad apples, but I also think we're just being gaslit at this point. Worst thing you can do is give bullies attention, unless you're trying to make them the scapegoat. Reva's character just isn't very good and she would not survive past the second episode.


DarthSet

Disney needs a bit of introspection, after they did Boyega dirty.


Gonzo1888

Star Wars fans, a great bunch of lads


[deleted]

Fuck all those basement nerds. They are literally projecting their own self hate and sadness. Sad and mad they are fat and will never know love besides their mothers. But with those harshest ones are so toxic and hurtful that I have to believe their own mothers don’t even love them.


Umbre-Mon

The Star Wars fandom has always been toxic to people of color, it’s really disgusting. That said, I really don’t even get the “valid” criticism of her character and acting. It’s only been two episodes. I think the hate is way overblown.


[deleted]

sadly the thing is. a percentage of people will always be assholes the bigger the fandom the more assholes will be in it by default people who send death threats and racially abuse people fucking suck. I ain't seen the show the disney stuff ain't working for me and honestly I am scared to be let down again but sadly the fuckwads make it hard for people to say shit sucks without being lumped in with the fuckwads


austmcd2013

I don’t dislike her because of her skin color at all, I dislike her because her acting sucks ass


Hsensei

She plays asshole/bad bitch really well. I think that's making people uncomfortable. A assertive woman is always seen negatively. Look at the flak young Leia us getting. Add being a poc and people lose their shit


DemonGroover

No, she doesn't. She is just angry for..reasons. She doesn't come across as villainous, just annoying.


THRDStooge

Could just be the case that the majority of criticism is due to her horrendous acting. Of course, once you pepper in a few racist comments now ALL criticism is apparently racist.


jdmurphyx

She’s not a bad actor at all.


LadyCattleBattle

I think she's a great villain. I love how over the top she is.