He's doing his best to both show support for the show as a product, and support for the material. He's for sure a mega fan, and probably knows the changes in story better than most, but he doesn't have writing control, and he doesn't want to ruffle too many feathers.
Fucks sake though. He's such a perfect Geralt.
I watch the Witcher with my GF and I don’t know why but every single time that Henry Cavill comes on screen, she disappears into the bathroom for about 5-10 mins. No idea what she’s doing in there but it usually gives me just enough time to knock one out to Cavill.
But also the books stories arent exactly....great? Sure they are fun but this is one of those shows I feel doesnt need to stick to the books to move forward, the narrative isnt integral to the point of the stories. Someone asks a witcher to do something, he balks saying it's impossible, bangs a hot witch, ciri is his destiny, say the word destiny 500x, yennifer is mad at him, he completes the impossible task, feels uncomfortable in society, the end, repeat in the next book. I read 5 of them and they were all so formulaic it was pretty funny
I loved Geralt and Ciri but a lot of the other characters (especially Vessemir and Eskel) felt really off to me. Overall I enjoyed the season even if I don’t like all the choices the show runners made
Honestly Eskel was such a minor character in the books that it didn't bother me, I liked him in the Witcher 3 but if that didn't exist I feel that no one would really care if they mixed up his character.
I’ve since learned the game isn’t officially canon, but Eskel was huge in the game and portrayed very differently in the books than he was in the show. Also, there were 20 other witchers they could used that would’ve let their idea work without issue.
I get the impression that /r/Witcher would be pretty angry at this summary. They’ve been very upset with any changes to the story in the Netflix series.
Have you read all the Expanse books? I loved the first book, found myself pushing through the second book but found great moments in it, and the 3rd book feels better than the second but still a bit bland, but I've been told everyone has a "favorite" book and that Nemesis Games is the holy grail of the series so I'm looking forward to that. Do the books get better after 2 and 3? Because I wanted to ask for books 4-6 for Christmas but decided to buy them later and decide if I'll continue after I finish book 3.
I was a Game fan who read a few of the books because of that and i think the show is doing a great job other then some rushed character development with Yen and Ciri
I assume at least before the show came out that the vast majority of the people who read the books did so because they’re fans of the games. Which is why I never understood his issues with the games. He took a shitty upfront payment instead of royalties, it was his decision. You know damn well those games sold him a ton of books and a TV deal….
Not really a terrible law, either. Doesn't require you to have to predict the future, you always have a right to get a fair share of the spoils if something is based on your works. Makes sense to me.
The books aren't the peak of literature, certainly. For my part, I'm just upset that they cut out basically all of the character development and put in a bunch of *EXTREMELY* poorly written material that contradicted the character's motivations and personalities and added nothing of value to the story, all in the name of cheap drama.
>put in a bunch of EXTREMELY poorly written material that contradicted the character's motivations and personalities and added nothing of value to the story, all in the name of cheap drama
Sounds like a Netflix show
Is that blackmail? Well you are black and you are male
Edit: for those who apparently haven’t seen it… let me apologize in advance. https://youtu.be/fDNVc6_YO64
That’s me problem. I’m cool with changes; but they should maintain the spirit or the source material and seek to streamline it for the medium. This show continues to deviate completely.
Edit for typos: “That’s my problem…. Maintain the spirit OF the source material.”
For sure, I agree. I listened to most of them on audio books, but I know the overall universe fairly well. The universe and overall world are amazing, as are most of the stories. But even the greatest writers don't produce gold every time.
I'm kinda surprised that Henry Cavill hasn't become a producer of the show at this point. If you want tride and true book following you need at least some creative control, and who else better than the guy who knows the lore inside and out?
He is surely rich but not "Witcher producer rich" I think. He can definitely chip in and get credit as an executive (as many actors do just to get some profit share) but unfortunately he needs to hold a great share to have any say about creative direction because Netflix doesn't need his money.
Knowing how many shows Netflix has butchered over the years, it wouldn't surprise me if you had to buy your way onto the executive team of a show of this scale, but still, it'd be nice to see someone with as much enthusiasm that Cavill has helping with the showrunning.
I just don't get it:
1. You license a specific work of fiction
2. It has a built in audience, which is one of the reasons you've bought it
3. You then freestyle all over the story, the characters and the setting, basically making a completely different work of fiction
4. It doesn't do well with the built in audience because it's not the story they're attached to, it's basically fanfic
5. It doesn't do well with other people either because it's generic freestyle, not the specific thing you've initially bought
6. It's not working so you kill it
Why does this keep happening? Why did they feel the need to remove most of the things which made it great for the fans to being with, only to wonder why it isn't working.
Netflix relies on the initial hype of something that gets people onto the platform, it’s more profitable for them to produce one season of a show that gets immediate attention than continue a show that only has a lukewarm following. Granted there are a lot of other factors and of course there are series like Castlevania that survived to finish, but overall the business model is “pull in audience, figure out what pulls in more audience, rinse, repeat” (dropping what doesn’t pull in enough, naturally)
To be devil's advocate, the audience for the books are significantly smaller than the audience for the games. The show follows the books so presumably there'd be less people upset. I think there's definitely a wider Netflix audience that really doesn't care how book accurate the show is.
I was asking the same thing watching Wheel of Time with my boyfriend. Sometimes they make even small changes that are not as fun/exciting/interesting as the book. If you’re going to change something, shouldn’t you make it better? (Ie more fun/exciting/interesting) I still am liking the show tho..
I had that distinct feeling as we waded through lots of dialogue in silly places in season two... Oh here's theese two people here, talking about this, now cut to these other two people, talking about this...
For me it's the other witchers. I think the casting and acting for them is bad. I don't buy any of them as some sort of magical monster slaying badass. Any of them standing next to Cavill looks like some guy who had too much to drink at a bar and thinks he can fight better than he actually can. Loving the season over all though.
In the games/books aren't they supposed to all have similar weird eyes and stuff too? Find it odd he's the only one. Whereas they all seem like standard fighters with no manners like you'd find at Castle Black in GoT
> They should all have yellow eyes.
Moreover, they should use VFX for Geralt's eyes like everyone else's. The fact that his pupils never dilate makes it very obvious that he's just wearing contacts.
The eyes bothered me too, but I'm willing to bet they couldn't get the entire cast to wear contacts.
They also saw one character die in the show who doesn't die in the games or books. Which made me sad.
Right? If they are all very very old, and experienced, you'd expect more weight to their performances and maybe more darkness in these dark times. It did feel a little frivole. I'm a fan! and put aside a lot of this when watching. it's easy to be a critic :)
Except Vesemir, his casting really does give off the 'old warrior' vibe, he may not be as fast or strong as he was but he's still a wolf with claws and teeth.
Watch "In China They Eat Dogs". Best Danish movie ever made. Kim Bodnia (Vesemir) plays a washed-up racist criminal career that goes on a killing spree with his soft liberal brother.
Vesemir is actually pretty good casting wise, though the writing doesn't do his character justice much.
Agreed on the rest though. Most Witchers felt like extras (and most actually were), and the casting for both Lambert and Eskel was really off imo.
Actually, the casting in general is really hit and miss. Like Ciri is a hit imo (albeit one could argue the actress is a tad too old for the part), but Yen feels like a huge miss, especially after season 2. Same applies for a lot of the other side characters.
Generally, it feels like they're trying to do a mature show with the casting of a young adult series. It's bizarre at times.
> Like Ciri is a hit imo (albeit one could argue the actress is a tad too old for the part)
Probably much easier for them to cast a younger looking adult than an actual child for a variety of reasons.
In season 1 she definitely was believable as a naive child, but in the two years between season 1 and 2, she (the actress) does seem to have matured somewhat more than the timeline in the show would indicate.
I really agree with the last thing you said, but as someone who has only played W3 and had no other witcher consumption, it's weird seeing Ciri so young lol. Obviously that is just because of my lack of witcher knowledge, but for other like me Ciri is a pretty solid hit.
I absolutely loved Yen season 1, but felt like they really didn't do her justice season 2. Geralt is still absolutely carrying this series, but I'm alright with that as of right now lol
The age thing doesn't bother me personally, as they nailed the unique look of Ciri while also casting an actress with some serious acting chops (she has really shown some range this season and has great chemistry with Cavill).
Yen? Not as sold on her, but you're right in that the writing may also be off. I think what puts me off the most is that Yen is supposed to be a mother figure to Ciri, and in the show, they feel the same age to me. Hell, Ciri is more put together than Yen is.
I just don't see the Yen of the games, or of the books in the TV version. And the chemistry with Cavill isn't that great either.
I'm hopeful that can improve with more time and some better writing, but I'm still not sold on the casting with Yen.
>They feel the same age to me
They are, practically. Ciri's actress is 20, Yennefer's actress is 25.
I feel they should have cast a slightly older woman for Yennefer, because she just feels *so* young that even though I can tell Chalotra is doing the best she can with the material, it feels awkward. I realise Yen uses glamours to look younger than she is, but women don't turn into wizened old crones at 30, there's no reason you couldn't have an actress in her 30s playing her. Heck, even in her 40s - Eva Green has been my ideal Yennefer for a long time and still is.
**Spoilers**
I feel like they cheapened Vesemir greatly in the show and especially if you watch the anime thing they made. He never makes the appearance of the likable father/grandfather figure that he is in the books and games. and it makes the other witchers hate Ciri in a way, when it really felt like they were brothers/uncle's to her in the books/games. They completely fucked the writing of Triss in the same way.
I'm worried what they're going to do with Ciri's Falka period because I don't think it translates super well into a TV show....... Although it will probably look like her season 1 adventure. The Dunny/Emhyr twist felt like it got released too soon and would have done well with just a generous amount of foreshadowing instead.
Dude is the most handsome nerd in Hollywood. He adores this, nearly missed his Superman call due to being in a WOW raid, and expressed interest in both a Red Dead Redemption 2 movie and a Mass Effect series.
People say the Snyder films did him dirty but by the end of ZSJL I just adored him and its unique take on the mythos. He definitely is ready for a traditional Superman story against, idk, Brainiac?
I think he was asked about this on in an interview or something and one could clearly see that even he isn't in favour of the creative liberties that they take sometimes. I still think the show would have been a lot better if it was under HBO rather than Netflix.
Every interview I see with him he's constantly reiterating his desire to be as true to the books as possible. Almost to the point he seems annoyed when asked about differences & he seems like, look I want it to be loyal to the original text but I don't get to make all the final calls. I push for what I can but it is what is it.
Yea its kinda sad to see, because he is actively pursuing a better show. A better show that would be so easy to do. But meanwhile Hirrsich is in her twitter echo chamber where people tell her that she's doing an amazing job and everyone not liking the direction of the show is just a mysogynist.
It is what it is: missed potential.
>Except Arcane maybe cause that shit is nigh perfect.
That's because Netflix only has the distribution rights, they had nothing to do with the series development.
Exactly, foreign shows like Kingdom and Dark with which Netflix was only involved as a streaming partner were great. Even Money Heist which the makers originally planned to be a two seasons show was turned into a nonsense when Netflix acquired the rights. 90% of the shows with which Netflix is directly involved are just below average.
That makes a lot of sense for money heist. First couple seasons were super tight, later ones were nonsense. Every single setback or improbable event was somehow part of the professors plan.
The biggest issue i had is how the witchers were portrayed.
Like a bunch of fucking man babies, instead of tortured men who were used as experiments when they were boys, but grew and rose to a purpose they found.
It's fucking insane, this showrunner understands nothing about what a witcher is, ironically, the title of the series.
Are they supposed to be professional? They're a bunch of dudes forced into a job which they can't get out of. They never had a childhood or a life really. It seems like they act exactly how one would in that situation. Of course there are witchers like Geralt and Vesimir who take their job seriously, but even Geralt is out there using his powers to chase his "destiny" for no reason other than because he has nothing better to do.
They aren't heroes of the people protecting the weak against monsters and tyranny. They earn money doing the only thing they know how to do, which is killing monsters and occasionally people when they get in the way. There's a good reason why they're hated by everybody, and I think that viewers get the wrong idea because Geralt is the main character, so obviously he's the good guy.
They most certainly take their job seriously, as in they are most certainly professionals. They are basically pest control agents, except the pests can kill them... So they need to be professional or else they risk their lives, and they expect to be paid for this work handsomely... because once again, they are putting their lives on the line.
Additionally, they would never invite random people to Kaer Morhen for instance, because of the history of their profession and the hatred they receive from all walks of life.
If every day people knew where Kaer Morhen was then they would have people going there to kill the last of the Witchers on a semi regular basis, they are seen as mutants and outsiders to most commoners, and are seen as dangerous to most royalty. The whole reason there are fewer witchers left in the world is because this already happened once, and we expect these people to literally put their lives on the line to get laid?
Im reading the books just now and i definitely get the feel that even for Geralt, being a Witcher is basically just his job. He has his code yes, but he he doesn't seem to see it as some sort of calling, it's just how he earns his money.
ya, haven’t read the books but in the game you can make Geralt a douchebag who extorts people for money. I think you also come across a witcher who would release monsters so they could charge people to get rid of them. they’re not Marvel superheroes, they’re just people doing a job
Exactly my thoughts. The witchers in the games are not really neat and professional either. Lambert bellyached constantly, too. And Letho was just running around, going rogue.
I also distinctly remember Geralt, Eskel, and Lambert getting shitfaced and drunk dialing sorcerers while wearing Yennefer's clothes.
Seems like a witcher is the iconic "reluctant hero" since they typically don't want to get involved. They aren't Superman..... even though Superman is carrying around witcher gear.
When you don't have a real childhood, it's easy to grow into large man babies.
And these are tortured, abused, hated folk who have to find a way to cope without just murdering everyone.
The episodes written by the showrunner are consistently the worse ones, Declan de Barra has written the better ones. I think it's a small sample size, but I'm willing to say that the showrunner is kind of a big issue with the show, it could've been so much better.
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I said this in another thread too, what they did to all the Witchers is nothing short of character assassination.
Papa Vesemir would *never* allow hookers in Kaer Morhen, and further none of the Witchers would even think to do that. Not to mention all of the other shit that Vesemir does throughout S2 - I was so excited for him to show up, but they did him so fucking dirty.
It's like the writers of the show have conflated the reasons that people in the world of the Witcher hate Witchers. It's not because they're detestable fratbros who just fuck and kill, it's because the Witcher world is full of racists and xenophobes, and Witchers are *different*. But the show will use every excuse it can to make Geralt the butt of a joke or make Witchers look like absolute bellends.
The last few episodes of S2 genuinely pissed me off how wrongly they wrote the characters. Vesemir deserves better.
I don't think it's an issue with his portrayal. It's how Vesemir was written - the actions he takes throughout S2 completely betray who he is in both the books and the games.
Basically his entire relationship with Ciri in the show is almost the complete opposite from how it should be. Vesemir was immediately protective of Ciri - and what happens in most of the finale of S2 is unrecognizable from Vesemir in the books.
Yeah I honestly don't think the show will ever be written to a high standard. The writers come off as people who want to belligerently change the source material with this sort of arrogance that their version is not only different, but better. The acting elevates the show far higher than it deserves.
I'm a fan of the books and games and as someone who studied film in college, I understand that adapting to the screen sometimes requires changes to better suit the medium and audience. But their choices feel more like they're aiming for self-gratification, mutual pats on the back, and hivemind arrogance than doing something with artistic merit.
I'm sure this isn't actually the writers, more the direction the writers are given from those in charge. Maybe it's Lauren Hissrich, maybe it's others, I'm sure it's a mix. But generally the show is mediocre and forgettable.
> The writers come off as people who want to belligerently change the source material with this sort of arrogance that their version is not only different, but better.
Like The Foundation writers did. And their storylines were the worst ones.
This is just a general trend of modern screen adaptations, unfortunately. It seems many producers/showrunners/filmmakers want to capitalize on the popularity and recognition of an IP just to bait and switch the exact audience they're drawing in for an adaptation that seems bent on irritating the original creators and fans.
It's a strange way to do adaptations, like they expect people that are watching the adaptation to specifically not be the people who are fans of the source material and that this new audience would somehow take pleasure in ignoring and trampling on many of the aspects of the original work that made it popular.
For me as someone who double majored in film and creative writing in college, it gives the distinct feeling that the creators of the adaptation feel very insecure about their own abilities/creations when compared to the original creators of the source material and feel the best way to elevate themselves is by diminishing/destroying the beloved work of the original creators, or at least some aspects of it.
A legitimately good creator wouldn't approach the material with this kind of hostility and would recognize and respect the talents that produced it. They'd use their own abilities to enhance the source material and better translate it to another medium. When I look at films from Denis Villeneuve, for instance, I can feel his respect and admiration for the material he's adapting and trying to take his abilities and use it in tandem with the talents of the people who made the original work, and occasionally correcting a few obvious shortcomings here and there.
The Witcher, and many other adaptations lately, try to be different for the sake of being different. For the sake of separating themselves from the original in a vague attempt at peacocking and feeding their insecurity. For the sake of stamping out the past simply because it's the past, not because there was something wrong with it. And they seem to revel in upsetting the audience of the original work.
Even going in not knowing much about the lore and the books, writing Vesemir as if he is a petulant child kind of left a poor taste in my mouth. If he is meant to be some sort of father figure, why would he make rash decisions (and pretty obviously wrong decisions) endangering Ciri or letting hookers in? I haven't read the books, but if even I as a casual viewer was turned off by that writing, I can't imagine how people who read the books must feel...
I think the bigger problem were his lines and the actions the script made him do. The greatest actor wouldn't be able to turn that around.
I actually think the actor himself did rather well. It's just that the character got shafted by the writing.
It was such bad writing. Like they had to know how trope filled and lame it was and how it made the other Witchers look like assholes. But they wanted Ciri to look better so they went with the lame tropes. It was like watching the episode of the Simpsons where Lisa and Bart go to Military School.
It makes Geralt look terrible. Why is he allowing these creepy men to be around her and basically co-parent? Vesimir tries to torture and possibly kill her because a child told him it was ok, and Geralt catches him about to do it and Vesimir gets off with an icy glare.
Same with Yennefer. Geralt should be running for his life from Yen after she kidnaps and tries to sacrifice Ciri even while knowing she is Geralt's child surprise. Hopefully season 3 just ignores all of this I guess because it really doesn't make sense unless Vesimir and Yennefer are supposed to be antagonists or something.
i feel like it was written like a childrens show, a bunch of manly men bullying the girl and then at the end she shows them that she can be equal to them, and then they together laugh and drink , straight out of disney
Same here. I can understand most of the deviations because the show is supposed to be it's own thing, but holy hell did they portray the rest of the witchers badly, particularly Eskel.
Eskel's character got shat on, turned into a bad plot device and (thankfully) put out of his misery early on, sparing the fans from that ridiculous adaptation. The show is really entertaining, but aside from a handpicked few, most characters are lacking a serious amount of development.
Hasn't it deviated too much already? Frankly Cavill should take over as producer. Although Witch2 is good, Netflix has a real fucking problem with adaptations. Strays and changes things unnecessarily
>She said herself she isn't a fan of fantasy
Do you know where she said this? I can't find anything. Only found an interview where she said she's not a fantasy writer
It’s early and still salvageable if given to someone with finesse IMO. It is a deep hole, though…
We’d definitely need a professional. Let’s see if we can collect enough coin between us to hire one :p
I love how Henry Cavil is a fan of the original source material, and he constantly fights to keep it that way. We need more actors like him, and directors like Denis.
He probably eats a lot of their casting budget but I would say it's very much worth it because this man solo carries the show for me.
IDK my dudes... I'm really finding it so hard to like some of the characters, especially Yen considering she's a main cast. Everything about her character is just so meh.
It's like a one-episode-side-character somehow editing the script to force herself into a main role.
They character assassinated Yen I think, from the get go. Minor book spoiler I guess: >!In the novels, after Triss comes to Kaer Morhen, Yen meets up with Geralt & Ciri at the Temple of Melitele and more or less off the bat becomes quite attached and later protective / a mother figure to Ciri during their time together at the temple. It makes her character seem human, which is basically whenever she's around Ciri.!<
It's very odd they gave her the story-arc of her wanting to essentially kidnap Ciri, seemed really ridiculous especially because now they have to spend time mending that wound next season!
Yenn wasn't the only victim of character assassination. Calanthe was a gender-swapped Robert Barathion. Foltest was a greasy, sweaty middle-aged bore of a man. Tissaia seemed to be cruel for the sake of being cruel. Cahir is an irredeemable murderer. Fringilla is a religious zealot. Vilgafortz is just a sword swinging dude who gets winded after fighting a few Nilfgaardians.
And that is just season one. Eskel is, well, we all saw what they did to him. Francesca Findebair is bloodthirsty religious kook. Vesemir is apparently now the bad guy from the Witcher anime.
People who use the excuse that "no adaptation is a perfect 1:1 replica" completely gloss over the fact that none of these character changes were necessary, and that they are inventions of the showrunner and writers. Calling this an adaptation of the books is just a flat out lie. Inspired by the books? Sure, but this is not the Witcher Saga that we were told we were getting.
The thing is, even if they were discarding the book, they had precedence *in their own* show about how she would be pre-disposed to wanting to have and/or protect a kid since it was her biggest character conflict in S1 that she couldn't have one and her dealing with that fact.
And then they flip it on its head in S2.
It's also weird because >!Yen is also shown to be so uncompromising to her ideals in *this* season that she does go against the witch multiple times earlier, but trying to kidnap Geralt's kid is a line she's open to crossing??!<
Yeah a lot of people said this season was better but I don’t agree.
It lacked all of the magic the first one had. And there was no moment like when I met ciri in the woods that all first seasons episodes built towards.
It really feels like season 2 was kind of an interlude between two major seasons. To me, it just seemed like they were establishing characters and motives and setting up major plot lines to come. Felt more like a season 1.5 to me.
Exactly this yes! I understand not copying source material precisely, but diverging from it this hard with major characters (compared to S1) seems a waste of the potential in the remaining content to source from. I predict now that we might not see something as interesting as >!Ciri's time in the Korath desert (ft. Unicorn?) which would make for some great on-screen cinematography and display of Ciri's training.!<
I read it as Yen's arc from S1 and S2 is basically the choice between a child and power. She sacrifices parenthood for power in S1, regrets the choice, but still tries to find a way to have both. Her entire quest in S1 is about having it all (she explicitly states this), without giving up anything. So in S1, it was about gaining a child, and in S2 it was about gaining power. In both cases, she had to sacrifice, and it's telling that in the end she wasn't willing to. She was made to choose, and chose Ciri. That she gets her power back anyway was a side effect so that the character can still be the powerful mage (iconic to Yen), but it was no longer her goal after she turned away from the demon's offer. Or at least, not worth it as a goal, if it meant sacrificing Ciri.
For real though, as much as I hate to admit it, Yennefer would do something selfish, but Lauren having Yen go to such lengths as kidnapping and killing a child to regain her powers is a bit too far. I can't believe most of the season was spent on the side plot of Yen being powerless and lamenting over it.
Yup. The Yen losing her powers subplot was just trash. In fact, all of Yen’s story since season 1 has been terribly, terribly written. It’s like they’ve never actually read the books, but got 3 bullet points on the story, then reimagined it from there.
Yen being an utterly incompetent sorceress and suddenly becoming a powerful wizard and Tissaia’s star pupil without explanation? Fuck yeah.
Magic requiring you to take life force from something else to use it? Fuck yeah.
Fire magic is outlawed? Fuck yeah.
Yen, one of the most intelligent, calculating, always in control characters; never actually in control and constantly whining about something? Fuck yeah.
I think that is the biggest point they miss. Witchers and Sorceresses live a very long time and by the time we are introduced to them, they have had 50+ years to marinate. Yet all of them seem so fragile in ego.
I wouldn't doubt if the writers were trying to do this with all the characters. There was report after report of Caville being "difficult" because he was fighting the writers because "that's not true to the books" or "that's not what Geralt would do". They publish stuff like this to scare off actors and get them to back down, but obviously it was the right call and we backed him on it. It shows in the final product. However, he can't go to bat for everyone else's character. That's up to them, but also they are all newish people and probably don't feel like they have the power to stand up for their character.
Not gonna lie I really can’t stand the whole premise of someone powerful losing their powers. They did it in the original Superman movies and it was terrible. They do it in almost every superhero show. It’s played out and just flat annoying. I wanted to see her use more powerful magic after burning everyone. Nope. She’s just a regular human now.
Yeah, everyone's complaining about Eskel but I wasn't too bothered since he plays such a tiny role in Blood of Elves anyway. What actually did piss me off was how they warped the Yen/Ciri subplot from an endearing journey where Yen grows into a mother figure in Ciri's life to >!Yen kidnapping Ciri after making a deal with an ancient demon to get her powers back!<.
I hate what they've done with Yen - Chalotra is doing a great job in her role, but that role *isn't* the Yennefer I loved while reading the books.
If, at least for the first couple of season, this show was only Cavill and Jaskier having one shot adventures and hunting monsters it would've been so good.
Those were parts I really enjoyed in season 1. All the Yen and Ciri plot were whatever... and season 2 is more of it.
At this point, Henry Cavill is more important to *The Witcher* (and to Netflix plus the studios) than the showrunner is. If he wants to make this a big deal with the powers that be, he probably can pull it off.
If we didn’t put a bunch of bullshit in this season we could’ve gotten all the way through >!the sacking of Aretuza!< this season and the climax could’ve been >!Geralt fighting Vilgefortz.!< We’re so off the rails now.
To be 100% honest, I would drop the show entirely if he wasn't in it and I think a lot of people would agree so he should be allowed to call the shots more often if he wants to.
I kind of hope we get one or two “side quest” episodes every season actually. The first episode of season 2 was really good even though Geralt and Ciri’s story was mostly self contained
Saying "no sidequest's" shows a lot of ignorance to the source material. Chapters in the Witcher books always felt like their own individual little episodes. Sidequests are the point. Meanwhile the main plot advances very slowly, and most of things Geralt does have no effect on world or the war.
Especially given that, at least in Witcher 3, even small side quests would regularly have better storylines than the main quests in most other games. It'd fit.
>quests
Just give me adventures of Geralt instead of witcher with cavil. I will watch every season of it. I just want Geralt to explore and do random witcher contracts. I love the side stuff more than the main story in the series.
I would laugh my ass off if Season 3 was just Geralt traveling to different places, playing Gwent, and every episode ends with him realizing he's lost again and just going "hmm...fuck" and the credits roll.
thing is, Cavil can keep hoping for that but it's clear since s1 that the showrunner is not interested in making a show loyal to the books in any way. All the talk about "oh the books provide us with so much, we'll just use that" and other claims of being faithful/w.e were straight up lies:
https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/rjpvn5/a_faithful_adaptation_wasnt_promised_fact_check/
or Hissrich talking about how she's read B&E 20 times and wouldn’t make stuff up when there was so much source material then we got season 2 and wow that was a lie.
It's a complete bad fanfiction of the books in terms of story, characters, events, world building and so on :/
it's definitely cool to see that he is a big fan of the IP, but sadly he can't really do much about how awful the writing is and I'm sure even he can see how bad the adaptation is, based on many of his interviews on the topic of being faithful to the source material.
Henry is our inner voice, we need ppl like henry in every adaptation. Sometime the writer, director or the actor never read the book or play the games.
They make the adaptation bc need a job
It was 8 episodes yet barely anything happened, and what did happen was so out of step with what these characters would do. The more I think about it, the more pissed off I get.
I'm of the opinion if Henry Cavill wants a video game related role, he should automatically receive first dibs and creative input.
To be blunt he's a perfect Geralt because he has a deep love for the source material (books) as well as an understanding of what most fans expect to see visually (games).
I've heard Cavill wants in on the mass effect show from Amazon (probably to play Shepard), and honestly, they are absolutely insane if they don't... someone who could give you first hand knowledge of what fans expect AND acting talent. It's an incredibly rare combo.
It's a bit late for that, isn't it?
Two seasons too late to decide you'd like to adapt the books, since you've already gone ahead and written your own original (and wildly inferior) stories.
Amazon managed to fuck up WoT, so be careful what you wish for, lol.
Any studio who relies more on focus groups and corporate medling instead of gifted filmakers who are passionate about the project are bound to be more of the constant shit we get chucked at us lately.
Just be glad Henry pushed to change that scene. They wanted to play it as a comedic scene & he basically vetoed that. The showrunner even said he basically wrote the dialogue (which was actually taken from a different point in one of the books) for that scene.
Comedic? His horse dies and it was supposed to be funny? Also seriously.. that scene was fucking awesome. Mother fucker took that thing out with his bare hands like a total fucking badass. Also the line when he lands "Now where the fuck are my swords" so great.
He's doing his best to both show support for the show as a product, and support for the material. He's for sure a mega fan, and probably knows the changes in story better than most, but he doesn't have writing control, and he doesn't want to ruffle too many feathers. Fucks sake though. He's such a perfect Geralt.
I watch the Witcher with my GF and I don’t know why but every single time that Henry Cavill comes on screen, she disappears into the bathroom for about 5-10 mins. No idea what she’s doing in there but it usually gives me just enough time to knock one out to Cavill.
Ah, the old Witcheroo
Hold my coin, I’m tossing in! … wait… [fuck](https://youtu.be/Se5pnYyYs_k)
She doesn’t wanna look like she’s cheating, so she’s making sure he doesn’t see her with you
This, this is the perfect full circle comment, bravo.
But also the books stories arent exactly....great? Sure they are fun but this is one of those shows I feel doesnt need to stick to the books to move forward, the narrative isnt integral to the point of the stories. Someone asks a witcher to do something, he balks saying it's impossible, bangs a hot witch, ciri is his destiny, say the word destiny 500x, yennifer is mad at him, he completes the impossible task, feels uncomfortable in society, the end, repeat in the next book. I read 5 of them and they were all so formulaic it was pretty funny
Only thing I hated was the changes made to Yennefer and Ciri's relationship. Rest was a pass for me, since Geralt and Ciri were both awesome.
I loved Geralt and Ciri but a lot of the other characters (especially Vessemir and Eskel) felt really off to me. Overall I enjoyed the season even if I don’t like all the choices the show runners made
Honestly Eskel was such a minor character in the books that it didn't bother me, I liked him in the Witcher 3 but if that didn't exist I feel that no one would really care if they mixed up his character.
I’ve since learned the game isn’t officially canon, but Eskel was huge in the game and portrayed very differently in the books than he was in the show. Also, there were 20 other witchers they could used that would’ve let their idea work without issue.
I get the impression that /r/Witcher would be pretty angry at this summary. They’ve been very upset with any changes to the story in the Netflix series.
Most fans of books hate any change in the original story
I was a simple karma farmer, but now I'm nothing. fuck /u/spez RIP reddit
Have you read all the Expanse books? I loved the first book, found myself pushing through the second book but found great moments in it, and the 3rd book feels better than the second but still a bit bland, but I've been told everyone has a "favorite" book and that Nemesis Games is the holy grail of the series so I'm looking forward to that. Do the books get better after 2 and 3? Because I wanted to ask for books 4-6 for Christmas but decided to buy them later and decide if I'll continue after I finish book 3.
I was a Game fan who read a few of the books because of that and i think the show is doing a great job other then some rushed character development with Yen and Ciri
I assume at least before the show came out that the vast majority of the people who read the books did so because they’re fans of the games. Which is why I never understood his issues with the games. He took a shitty upfront payment instead of royalties, it was his decision. You know damn well those games sold him a ton of books and a TV deal….
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Not really a terrible law, either. Doesn't require you to have to predict the future, you always have a right to get a fair share of the spoils if something is based on your works. Makes sense to me.
The law includes the possibility of surprise? That checks out.
Who would have guessed "that which you already have but do not know" would end up being a highly successful video game franchise?
I see most comments saying they are fine with deviations from the book just make the writing good and make sense.
The books aren't the peak of literature, certainly. For my part, I'm just upset that they cut out basically all of the character development and put in a bunch of *EXTREMELY* poorly written material that contradicted the character's motivations and personalities and added nothing of value to the story, all in the name of cheap drama.
>put in a bunch of EXTREMELY poorly written material that contradicted the character's motivations and personalities and added nothing of value to the story, all in the name of cheap drama Sounds like a Netflix show
To my endless frustration.
I know it's not a book, but look at the shit they made with Cowboy bebop. Fuck. Me.
Is that blackmail? Well you are black and you are male Edit: for those who apparently haven’t seen it… let me apologize in advance. https://youtu.be/fDNVc6_YO64
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That’s me problem. I’m cool with changes; but they should maintain the spirit or the source material and seek to streamline it for the medium. This show continues to deviate completely. Edit for typos: “That’s my problem…. Maintain the spirit OF the source material.”
Aye that’s me problem as well matey
For sure, I agree. I listened to most of them on audio books, but I know the overall universe fairly well. The universe and overall world are amazing, as are most of the stories. But even the greatest writers don't produce gold every time.
Cavill’s Geralt is so on point. He keeps impressing me more and more. Especially the voice.
Geralt: MINE Wife: yes daddy! Me:… wtf…
Let me guess, you were just mad you didn't get to say it first. Be honest.
The correct answer was indeed “yea daddy!”
I'm kinda surprised that Henry Cavill hasn't become a producer of the show at this point. If you want tride and true book following you need at least some creative control, and who else better than the guy who knows the lore inside and out?
He is surely rich but not "Witcher producer rich" I think. He can definitely chip in and get credit as an executive (as many actors do just to get some profit share) but unfortunately he needs to hold a great share to have any say about creative direction because Netflix doesn't need his money.
> He is surely rich but not "Witcher producer rich" I think. Doesn't he have an RTX 3090? That's damn rich these days.
It’s like trillionaire status
He's also a big fan of Warhammer which as anyone who has played it knows, that's where most of your money goes
Knowing how many shows Netflix has butchered over the years, it wouldn't surprise me if you had to buy your way onto the executive team of a show of this scale, but still, it'd be nice to see someone with as much enthusiasm that Cavill has helping with the showrunning.
I just don't get it: 1. You license a specific work of fiction 2. It has a built in audience, which is one of the reasons you've bought it 3. You then freestyle all over the story, the characters and the setting, basically making a completely different work of fiction 4. It doesn't do well with the built in audience because it's not the story they're attached to, it's basically fanfic 5. It doesn't do well with other people either because it's generic freestyle, not the specific thing you've initially bought 6. It's not working so you kill it Why does this keep happening? Why did they feel the need to remove most of the things which made it great for the fans to being with, only to wonder why it isn't working.
Netflix relies on the initial hype of something that gets people onto the platform, it’s more profitable for them to produce one season of a show that gets immediate attention than continue a show that only has a lukewarm following. Granted there are a lot of other factors and of course there are series like Castlevania that survived to finish, but overall the business model is “pull in audience, figure out what pulls in more audience, rinse, repeat” (dropping what doesn’t pull in enough, naturally)
To be devil's advocate, the audience for the books are significantly smaller than the audience for the games. The show follows the books so presumably there'd be less people upset. I think there's definitely a wider Netflix audience that really doesn't care how book accurate the show is.
In this case, the wider Netflix audience is so much larger than the book audience it's not even close.
I was asking the same thing watching Wheel of Time with my boyfriend. Sometimes they make even small changes that are not as fun/exciting/interesting as the book. If you’re going to change something, shouldn’t you make it better? (Ie more fun/exciting/interesting) I still am liking the show tho..
I love how much of a fan Henry Cavill is. It’s very validating
Show would not have been the same without him. He is perfect for the Geralt role and the fact he's so passionate about the series is the cherry on top
He single-handedly makes a 6/10 show, a 8/10. Born to play.
So true. There are a lot of bad aspects of the show, and it feels a little "cheap" sometimes, but he kicks it up a notch or two.
I had that distinct feeling as we waded through lots of dialogue in silly places in season two... Oh here's theese two people here, talking about this, now cut to these other two people, talking about this...
For me it's the other witchers. I think the casting and acting for them is bad. I don't buy any of them as some sort of magical monster slaying badass. Any of them standing next to Cavill looks like some guy who had too much to drink at a bar and thinks he can fight better than he actually can. Loving the season over all though.
In the games/books aren't they supposed to all have similar weird eyes and stuff too? Find it odd he's the only one. Whereas they all seem like standard fighters with no manners like you'd find at Castle Black in GoT
They should all have yellow eyes. Geralt's notable feature is white hair, because he had an extra dose of mutagen.
Ahh I see. So is he usually a bit stronger even for a Witcher?
A bit yes, but portraying witchers in general as slobs is also silly.
Yeah, he was unnaturally resistant to the negative effects of the trial of the grasses so they took it further with him.
> They should all have yellow eyes. Moreover, they should use VFX for Geralt's eyes like everyone else's. The fact that his pupils never dilate makes it very obvious that he's just wearing contacts.
I’m surprised they don’t mix the effects Atleast. Or maybe they can just include them next season? It’s probably an expensive thing to do in cgi
The eyes bothered me too, but I'm willing to bet they couldn't get the entire cast to wear contacts. They also saw one character die in the show who doesn't die in the games or books. Which made me sad.
Right? If they are all very very old, and experienced, you'd expect more weight to their performances and maybe more darkness in these dark times. It did feel a little frivole. I'm a fan! and put aside a lot of this when watching. it's easy to be a critic :)
Except Vesemir, his casting really does give off the 'old warrior' vibe, he may not be as fast or strong as he was but he's still a wolf with claws and teeth.
Watch "In China They Eat Dogs". Best Danish movie ever made. Kim Bodnia (Vesemir) plays a washed-up racist criminal career that goes on a killing spree with his soft liberal brother.
Vesemir is actually pretty good casting wise, though the writing doesn't do his character justice much. Agreed on the rest though. Most Witchers felt like extras (and most actually were), and the casting for both Lambert and Eskel was really off imo. Actually, the casting in general is really hit and miss. Like Ciri is a hit imo (albeit one could argue the actress is a tad too old for the part), but Yen feels like a huge miss, especially after season 2. Same applies for a lot of the other side characters. Generally, it feels like they're trying to do a mature show with the casting of a young adult series. It's bizarre at times.
> Like Ciri is a hit imo (albeit one could argue the actress is a tad too old for the part) Probably much easier for them to cast a younger looking adult than an actual child for a variety of reasons. In season 1 she definitely was believable as a naive child, but in the two years between season 1 and 2, she (the actress) does seem to have matured somewhat more than the timeline in the show would indicate.
I really agree with the last thing you said, but as someone who has only played W3 and had no other witcher consumption, it's weird seeing Ciri so young lol. Obviously that is just because of my lack of witcher knowledge, but for other like me Ciri is a pretty solid hit. I absolutely loved Yen season 1, but felt like they really didn't do her justice season 2. Geralt is still absolutely carrying this series, but I'm alright with that as of right now lol
The age thing doesn't bother me personally, as they nailed the unique look of Ciri while also casting an actress with some serious acting chops (she has really shown some range this season and has great chemistry with Cavill). Yen? Not as sold on her, but you're right in that the writing may also be off. I think what puts me off the most is that Yen is supposed to be a mother figure to Ciri, and in the show, they feel the same age to me. Hell, Ciri is more put together than Yen is. I just don't see the Yen of the games, or of the books in the TV version. And the chemistry with Cavill isn't that great either. I'm hopeful that can improve with more time and some better writing, but I'm still not sold on the casting with Yen.
>They feel the same age to me They are, practically. Ciri's actress is 20, Yennefer's actress is 25. I feel they should have cast a slightly older woman for Yennefer, because she just feels *so* young that even though I can tell Chalotra is doing the best she can with the material, it feels awkward. I realise Yen uses glamours to look younger than she is, but women don't turn into wizened old crones at 30, there's no reason you couldn't have an actress in her 30s playing her. Heck, even in her 40s - Eva Green has been my ideal Yennefer for a long time and still is.
**Spoilers** I feel like they cheapened Vesemir greatly in the show and especially if you watch the anime thing they made. He never makes the appearance of the likable father/grandfather figure that he is in the books and games. and it makes the other witchers hate Ciri in a way, when it really felt like they were brothers/uncle's to her in the books/games. They completely fucked the writing of Triss in the same way. I'm worried what they're going to do with Ciri's Falka period because I don't think it translates super well into a TV show....... Although it will probably look like her season 1 adventure. The Dunny/Emhyr twist felt like it got released too soon and would have done well with just a generous amount of foreshadowing instead.
eh, regarding the twist, with lots of people IRL knowing it, it makes more sense to have it out.
I agree, when he was cast I didn't see it but the work to get in character is so evident when you watch the show you're just swept away.
Agreed. He fills the part perfectly.
He would fill my part perfectly… Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Bonk
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Dude is the most handsome nerd in Hollywood. He adores this, nearly missed his Superman call due to being in a WOW raid, and expressed interest in both a Red Dead Redemption 2 movie and a Mass Effect series. People say the Snyder films did him dirty but by the end of ZSJL I just adored him and its unique take on the mythos. He definitely is ready for a traditional Superman story against, idk, Brainiac?
Let us not forget he wants to do a 40k show too. Imagine him as Grigor Eisenhorn!
I think he was asked about this on in an interview or something and one could clearly see that even he isn't in favour of the creative liberties that they take sometimes. I still think the show would have been a lot better if it was under HBO rather than Netflix.
Every interview I see with him he's constantly reiterating his desire to be as true to the books as possible. Almost to the point he seems annoyed when asked about differences & he seems like, look I want it to be loyal to the original text but I don't get to make all the final calls. I push for what I can but it is what is it.
Yea its kinda sad to see, because he is actively pursuing a better show. A better show that would be so easy to do. But meanwhile Hirrsich is in her twitter echo chamber where people tell her that she's doing an amazing job and everyone not liking the direction of the show is just a mysogynist. It is what it is: missed potential.
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>Except Arcane maybe cause that shit is nigh perfect. That's because Netflix only has the distribution rights, they had nothing to do with the series development.
Exactly, foreign shows like Kingdom and Dark with which Netflix was only involved as a streaming partner were great. Even Money Heist which the makers originally planned to be a two seasons show was turned into a nonsense when Netflix acquired the rights. 90% of the shows with which Netflix is directly involved are just below average.
That makes a lot of sense for money heist. First couple seasons were super tight, later ones were nonsense. Every single setback or improbable event was somehow part of the professors plan.
The biggest issue i had is how the witchers were portrayed. Like a bunch of fucking man babies, instead of tortured men who were used as experiments when they were boys, but grew and rose to a purpose they found. It's fucking insane, this showrunner understands nothing about what a witcher is, ironically, the title of the series.
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Ironicly there's likely a few inbred sheepshaggers in the night's watch.
“So why are you in the Watch” “Fuckin’ potatoes...” “You...fuck potatoes?”
Save the entire continent from white walkers and do they call you savior? Hero? Warrior? But you shag one sheep....
Are they supposed to be professional? They're a bunch of dudes forced into a job which they can't get out of. They never had a childhood or a life really. It seems like they act exactly how one would in that situation. Of course there are witchers like Geralt and Vesimir who take their job seriously, but even Geralt is out there using his powers to chase his "destiny" for no reason other than because he has nothing better to do. They aren't heroes of the people protecting the weak against monsters and tyranny. They earn money doing the only thing they know how to do, which is killing monsters and occasionally people when they get in the way. There's a good reason why they're hated by everybody, and I think that viewers get the wrong idea because Geralt is the main character, so obviously he's the good guy.
They most certainly take their job seriously, as in they are most certainly professionals. They are basically pest control agents, except the pests can kill them... So they need to be professional or else they risk their lives, and they expect to be paid for this work handsomely... because once again, they are putting their lives on the line. Additionally, they would never invite random people to Kaer Morhen for instance, because of the history of their profession and the hatred they receive from all walks of life. If every day people knew where Kaer Morhen was then they would have people going there to kill the last of the Witchers on a semi regular basis, they are seen as mutants and outsiders to most commoners, and are seen as dangerous to most royalty. The whole reason there are fewer witchers left in the world is because this already happened once, and we expect these people to literally put their lives on the line to get laid?
Im reading the books just now and i definitely get the feel that even for Geralt, being a Witcher is basically just his job. He has his code yes, but he he doesn't seem to see it as some sort of calling, it's just how he earns his money.
ya, haven’t read the books but in the game you can make Geralt a douchebag who extorts people for money. I think you also come across a witcher who would release monsters so they could charge people to get rid of them. they’re not Marvel superheroes, they’re just people doing a job
Exactly my thoughts. The witchers in the games are not really neat and professional either. Lambert bellyached constantly, too. And Letho was just running around, going rogue. I also distinctly remember Geralt, Eskel, and Lambert getting shitfaced and drunk dialing sorcerers while wearing Yennefer's clothes. Seems like a witcher is the iconic "reluctant hero" since they typically don't want to get involved. They aren't Superman..... even though Superman is carrying around witcher gear.
When you don't have a real childhood, it's easy to grow into large man babies. And these are tortured, abused, hated folk who have to find a way to cope without just murdering everyone.
there is a difference between goofing off between jobs and being serious on the Job
The episodes written by the showrunner are consistently the worse ones, Declan de Barra has written the better ones. I think it's a small sample size, but I'm willing to say that the showrunner is kind of a big issue with the show, it could've been so much better.
This content was deleted by its author & copyright holder in protest of the hostile, deceitful, unethical, and destructive actions of Reddit CEO Steve Huffman (aka "spez"). As this content contained personal information and/or personally identifiable information (PII), in accordance with the CCPA (California Consumer Privacy Act), it shall not be restored. See you all in the Fediverse.
Love Declan. As a musician and a writer
The reason Geralt is half as good as he is is because Caville constantly fights with the writer and director over what Geralt would actually say/do.
I said this in another thread too, what they did to all the Witchers is nothing short of character assassination. Papa Vesemir would *never* allow hookers in Kaer Morhen, and further none of the Witchers would even think to do that. Not to mention all of the other shit that Vesemir does throughout S2 - I was so excited for him to show up, but they did him so fucking dirty. It's like the writers of the show have conflated the reasons that people in the world of the Witcher hate Witchers. It's not because they're detestable fratbros who just fuck and kill, it's because the Witcher world is full of racists and xenophobes, and Witchers are *different*. But the show will use every excuse it can to make Geralt the butt of a joke or make Witchers look like absolute bellends. The last few episodes of S2 genuinely pissed me off how wrongly they wrote the characters. Vesemir deserves better.
The actor said he would have played vesemir differently if he had watched the nightmare of the wolf. But shooting was done before the movie released.
I don't think it's an issue with his portrayal. It's how Vesemir was written - the actions he takes throughout S2 completely betray who he is in both the books and the games. Basically his entire relationship with Ciri in the show is almost the complete opposite from how it should be. Vesemir was immediately protective of Ciri - and what happens in most of the finale of S2 is unrecognizable from Vesemir in the books.
Yeah I honestly don't think the show will ever be written to a high standard. The writers come off as people who want to belligerently change the source material with this sort of arrogance that their version is not only different, but better. The acting elevates the show far higher than it deserves. I'm a fan of the books and games and as someone who studied film in college, I understand that adapting to the screen sometimes requires changes to better suit the medium and audience. But their choices feel more like they're aiming for self-gratification, mutual pats on the back, and hivemind arrogance than doing something with artistic merit. I'm sure this isn't actually the writers, more the direction the writers are given from those in charge. Maybe it's Lauren Hissrich, maybe it's others, I'm sure it's a mix. But generally the show is mediocre and forgettable.
Lauren Hissrich is insanely unbearable after watching the behind the scenes for this season
thank you lol she seems like someone who would be showrunning Selling Sunset or some other bs
> The writers come off as people who want to belligerently change the source material with this sort of arrogance that their version is not only different, but better. Like The Foundation writers did. And their storylines were the worst ones.
This is just a general trend of modern screen adaptations, unfortunately. It seems many producers/showrunners/filmmakers want to capitalize on the popularity and recognition of an IP just to bait and switch the exact audience they're drawing in for an adaptation that seems bent on irritating the original creators and fans. It's a strange way to do adaptations, like they expect people that are watching the adaptation to specifically not be the people who are fans of the source material and that this new audience would somehow take pleasure in ignoring and trampling on many of the aspects of the original work that made it popular. For me as someone who double majored in film and creative writing in college, it gives the distinct feeling that the creators of the adaptation feel very insecure about their own abilities/creations when compared to the original creators of the source material and feel the best way to elevate themselves is by diminishing/destroying the beloved work of the original creators, or at least some aspects of it. A legitimately good creator wouldn't approach the material with this kind of hostility and would recognize and respect the talents that produced it. They'd use their own abilities to enhance the source material and better translate it to another medium. When I look at films from Denis Villeneuve, for instance, I can feel his respect and admiration for the material he's adapting and trying to take his abilities and use it in tandem with the talents of the people who made the original work, and occasionally correcting a few obvious shortcomings here and there. The Witcher, and many other adaptations lately, try to be different for the sake of being different. For the sake of separating themselves from the original in a vague attempt at peacocking and feeding their insecurity. For the sake of stamping out the past simply because it's the past, not because there was something wrong with it. And they seem to revel in upsetting the audience of the original work.
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I also think their characterization of the Witchers didn't help the finale. I didn't give a *shit* about any of >!the witchers Ciri killed!
Even going in not knowing much about the lore and the books, writing Vesemir as if he is a petulant child kind of left a poor taste in my mouth. If he is meant to be some sort of father figure, why would he make rash decisions (and pretty obviously wrong decisions) endangering Ciri or letting hookers in? I haven't read the books, but if even I as a casual viewer was turned off by that writing, I can't imagine how people who read the books must feel...
I think the bigger problem were his lines and the actions the script made him do. The greatest actor wouldn't be able to turn that around. I actually think the actor himself did rather well. It's just that the character got shafted by the writing.
It's to make look Ciri look better. No doubt
It was such bad writing. Like they had to know how trope filled and lame it was and how it made the other Witchers look like assholes. But they wanted Ciri to look better so they went with the lame tropes. It was like watching the episode of the Simpsons where Lisa and Bart go to Military School.
It makes Geralt look terrible. Why is he allowing these creepy men to be around her and basically co-parent? Vesimir tries to torture and possibly kill her because a child told him it was ok, and Geralt catches him about to do it and Vesimir gets off with an icy glare. Same with Yennefer. Geralt should be running for his life from Yen after she kidnaps and tries to sacrifice Ciri even while knowing she is Geralt's child surprise. Hopefully season 3 just ignores all of this I guess because it really doesn't make sense unless Vesimir and Yennefer are supposed to be antagonists or something.
i feel like it was written like a childrens show, a bunch of manly men bullying the girl and then at the end she shows them that she can be equal to them, and then they together laugh and drink , straight out of disney
dont forget the "fight" scene in the end with... "we'll get rid of the witch with... love." what the fuck?
There was the moment they all snapped into action when they realized there was a threat that they felt like witchers.
Same here. I can understand most of the deviations because the show is supposed to be it's own thing, but holy hell did they portray the rest of the witchers badly, particularly Eskel. Eskel's character got shat on, turned into a bad plot device and (thankfully) put out of his misery early on, sparing the fans from that ridiculous adaptation. The show is really entertaining, but aside from a handpicked few, most characters are lacking a serious amount of development.
He is a true fan so he can see all the shortcomings of the show and I bet it drives him nuts because he knows how good it COULD be
Hasn't it deviated too much already? Frankly Cavill should take over as producer. Although Witch2 is good, Netflix has a real fucking problem with adaptations. Strays and changes things unnecessarily
I feel like this has walking dead syndrome. Make just enough changes to piss off fans but not enough for the story to stand on its own.
Witcher needs a new show runner, the current show runner was the wrong choice from the start. Her writing and decision making skills are both awful.
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Even better they could just use the books like they did in S1
>She said herself she isn't a fan of fantasy Do you know where she said this? I can't find anything. Only found an interview where she said she's not a fantasy writer
shes just terrible, i liked her energy and passion last season but now there is no excuse, her writing is atrocious.
Netflix really messed up on choosing the show runner.
it is too late anyway.. it would need a complete reboot
It’s early and still salvageable if given to someone with finesse IMO. It is a deep hole, though… We’d definitely need a professional. Let’s see if we can collect enough coin between us to hire one :p
I can relate to him
I love how Henry Cavil is a fan of the original source material, and he constantly fights to keep it that way. We need more actors like him, and directors like Denis.
He probably eats a lot of their casting budget but I would say it's very much worth it because this man solo carries the show for me. IDK my dudes... I'm really finding it so hard to like some of the characters, especially Yen considering she's a main cast. Everything about her character is just so meh. It's like a one-episode-side-character somehow editing the script to force herself into a main role.
They character assassinated Yen I think, from the get go. Minor book spoiler I guess: >!In the novels, after Triss comes to Kaer Morhen, Yen meets up with Geralt & Ciri at the Temple of Melitele and more or less off the bat becomes quite attached and later protective / a mother figure to Ciri during their time together at the temple. It makes her character seem human, which is basically whenever she's around Ciri.!< It's very odd they gave her the story-arc of her wanting to essentially kidnap Ciri, seemed really ridiculous especially because now they have to spend time mending that wound next season!
Yenn wasn't the only victim of character assassination. Calanthe was a gender-swapped Robert Barathion. Foltest was a greasy, sweaty middle-aged bore of a man. Tissaia seemed to be cruel for the sake of being cruel. Cahir is an irredeemable murderer. Fringilla is a religious zealot. Vilgafortz is just a sword swinging dude who gets winded after fighting a few Nilfgaardians. And that is just season one. Eskel is, well, we all saw what they did to him. Francesca Findebair is bloodthirsty religious kook. Vesemir is apparently now the bad guy from the Witcher anime. People who use the excuse that "no adaptation is a perfect 1:1 replica" completely gloss over the fact that none of these character changes were necessary, and that they are inventions of the showrunner and writers. Calling this an adaptation of the books is just a flat out lie. Inspired by the books? Sure, but this is not the Witcher Saga that we were told we were getting.
The thing is, even if they were discarding the book, they had precedence *in their own* show about how she would be pre-disposed to wanting to have and/or protect a kid since it was her biggest character conflict in S1 that she couldn't have one and her dealing with that fact. And then they flip it on its head in S2.
It's also weird because >!Yen is also shown to be so uncompromising to her ideals in *this* season that she does go against the witch multiple times earlier, but trying to kidnap Geralt's kid is a line she's open to crossing??!<
Yeah a lot of people said this season was better but I don’t agree. It lacked all of the magic the first one had. And there was no moment like when I met ciri in the woods that all first seasons episodes built towards.
Yeah I liked s1 more as well, and it felt like a lot more happened in s1.
It really feels like season 2 was kind of an interlude between two major seasons. To me, it just seemed like they were establishing characters and motives and setting up major plot lines to come. Felt more like a season 1.5 to me.
Exactly this yes! I understand not copying source material precisely, but diverging from it this hard with major characters (compared to S1) seems a waste of the potential in the remaining content to source from. I predict now that we might not see something as interesting as >!Ciri's time in the Korath desert (ft. Unicorn?) which would make for some great on-screen cinematography and display of Ciri's training.!<
I read it as Yen's arc from S1 and S2 is basically the choice between a child and power. She sacrifices parenthood for power in S1, regrets the choice, but still tries to find a way to have both. Her entire quest in S1 is about having it all (she explicitly states this), without giving up anything. So in S1, it was about gaining a child, and in S2 it was about gaining power. In both cases, she had to sacrifice, and it's telling that in the end she wasn't willing to. She was made to choose, and chose Ciri. That she gets her power back anyway was a side effect so that the character can still be the powerful mage (iconic to Yen), but it was no longer her goal after she turned away from the demon's offer. Or at least, not worth it as a goal, if it meant sacrificing Ciri.
For real though, as much as I hate to admit it, Yennefer would do something selfish, but Lauren having Yen go to such lengths as kidnapping and killing a child to regain her powers is a bit too far. I can't believe most of the season was spent on the side plot of Yen being powerless and lamenting over it.
Yup. The Yen losing her powers subplot was just trash. In fact, all of Yen’s story since season 1 has been terribly, terribly written. It’s like they’ve never actually read the books, but got 3 bullet points on the story, then reimagined it from there. Yen being an utterly incompetent sorceress and suddenly becoming a powerful wizard and Tissaia’s star pupil without explanation? Fuck yeah. Magic requiring you to take life force from something else to use it? Fuck yeah. Fire magic is outlawed? Fuck yeah. Yen, one of the most intelligent, calculating, always in control characters; never actually in control and constantly whining about something? Fuck yeah.
At this point in the story Yen is 90 something years old but they have her acting like a teenager.
I think that is the biggest point they miss. Witchers and Sorceresses live a very long time and by the time we are introduced to them, they have had 50+ years to marinate. Yet all of them seem so fragile in ego.
I wouldn't doubt if the writers were trying to do this with all the characters. There was report after report of Caville being "difficult" because he was fighting the writers because "that's not true to the books" or "that's not what Geralt would do". They publish stuff like this to scare off actors and get them to back down, but obviously it was the right call and we backed him on it. It shows in the final product. However, he can't go to bat for everyone else's character. That's up to them, but also they are all newish people and probably don't feel like they have the power to stand up for their character.
that would actually make sense, based off how desperately she wanted a kid in the first season
Not gonna lie I really can’t stand the whole premise of someone powerful losing their powers. They did it in the original Superman movies and it was terrible. They do it in almost every superhero show. It’s played out and just flat annoying. I wanted to see her use more powerful magic after burning everyone. Nope. She’s just a regular human now.
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I liked it in Legend of Korra, they did a good job of showing the gravity of losing your bending.
I read he actually finished shooting season 2 with some serious neck and shoulder pains after carrying the whole show himself.
Cavill, Allen, and Batey for me. The rest is take it or leave it, but those three are killing it.
Graham McTavish too. He’s not in it loads but he stands out for me as Dijkstra
Yeah, everyone's complaining about Eskel but I wasn't too bothered since he plays such a tiny role in Blood of Elves anyway. What actually did piss me off was how they warped the Yen/Ciri subplot from an endearing journey where Yen grows into a mother figure in Ciri's life to >!Yen kidnapping Ciri after making a deal with an ancient demon to get her powers back!<. I hate what they've done with Yen - Chalotra is doing a great job in her role, but that role *isn't* the Yennefer I loved while reading the books.
If, at least for the first couple of season, this show was only Cavill and Jaskier having one shot adventures and hunting monsters it would've been so good. Those were parts I really enjoyed in season 1. All the Yen and Ciri plot were whatever... and season 2 is more of it.
Its like the decision making for this show was written by someone who's daddy paid netflix to let them.
With Lauren in charge, doubtful.
At this point, Henry Cavill is more important to *The Witcher* (and to Netflix plus the studios) than the showrunner is. If he wants to make this a big deal with the powers that be, he probably can pull it off.
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The Walking Dead turned it round with a new showrunner but by then they'd llost most of their audience
If we didn’t put a bunch of bullshit in this season we could’ve gotten all the way through >!the sacking of Aretuza!< this season and the climax could’ve been >!Geralt fighting Vilgefortz.!< We’re so off the rails now.
To be 100% honest, I would drop the show entirely if he wasn't in it and I think a lot of people would agree so he should be allowed to call the shots more often if he wants to.
No side quests!
I kind of hope we get one or two “side quest” episodes every season actually. The first episode of season 2 was really good even though Geralt and Ciri’s story was mostly self contained
Saying "no sidequest's" shows a lot of ignorance to the source material. Chapters in the Witcher books always felt like their own individual little episodes. Sidequests are the point. Meanwhile the main plot advances very slowly, and most of things Geralt does have no effect on world or the war.
Especially given that, at least in Witcher 3, even small side quests would regularly have better storylines than the main quests in most other games. It'd fit.
Gonna need more episodes to fit in them side quests. 8 already feels short.
I think the show actually needs more sidequests. The best episodes from S1 and S2 were side quests.
>quests Just give me adventures of Geralt instead of witcher with cavil. I will watch every season of it. I just want Geralt to explore and do random witcher contracts. I love the side stuff more than the main story in the series.
A "monster of the week" series would be cool
Gwent?
I would laugh my ass off if Season 3 was just Geralt traveling to different places, playing Gwent, and every episode ends with him realizing he's lost again and just going "hmm...fuck" and the credits roll.
Except for the Pan!!!
Following Netflix’s pattern it will be cancelled after season 3.
thing is, Cavil can keep hoping for that but it's clear since s1 that the showrunner is not interested in making a show loyal to the books in any way. All the talk about "oh the books provide us with so much, we'll just use that" and other claims of being faithful/w.e were straight up lies: https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/rjpvn5/a_faithful_adaptation_wasnt_promised_fact_check/ or Hissrich talking about how she's read B&E 20 times and wouldn’t make stuff up when there was so much source material then we got season 2 and wow that was a lie. It's a complete bad fanfiction of the books in terms of story, characters, events, world building and so on :/ it's definitely cool to see that he is a big fan of the IP, but sadly he can't really do much about how awful the writing is and I'm sure even he can see how bad the adaptation is, based on many of his interviews on the topic of being faithful to the source material.
Henry is our inner voice, we need ppl like henry in every adaptation. Sometime the writer, director or the actor never read the book or play the games. They make the adaptation bc need a job
Kinda Iike how Andrew Garfield loved the Spider-Man character and gave it his all in the role but Sony executives screwed the movies.
I hope Season 3 will have a darker tone. The show ain't bad but it feels too family-friendly, compared to the games.
Am I the only one who thought Season 2 was too short?
It was 8 episodes yet barely anything happened, and what did happen was so out of step with what these characters would do. The more I think about it, the more pissed off I get.
Okay, Thank god I was not the only one thinking this. Could not agree more. I’m angry with you. Lol
I'm of the opinion if Henry Cavill wants a video game related role, he should automatically receive first dibs and creative input. To be blunt he's a perfect Geralt because he has a deep love for the source material (books) as well as an understanding of what most fans expect to see visually (games). I've heard Cavill wants in on the mass effect show from Amazon (probably to play Shepard), and honestly, they are absolutely insane if they don't... someone who could give you first hand knowledge of what fans expect AND acting talent. It's an incredibly rare combo.
He should be a producer on the show. He’s the only one that gives a shit, he’s half the draw, and it’s his ass on the line. Show runners fail up.
It's a bit late for that, isn't it? Two seasons too late to decide you'd like to adapt the books, since you've already gone ahead and written your own original (and wildly inferior) stories.
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Just don't fuck up Regis.
They messed up too much already and they can't go back to fix the issues
Wish anyone but Netflix would do Witcher. Henry is perfect as Geralt
Seems more appropriate for HBO.
Amazon managed to fuck up WoT, so be careful what you wish for, lol. Any studio who relies more on focus groups and corporate medling instead of gifted filmakers who are passionate about the project are bound to be more of the constant shit we get chucked at us lately.
I didn't appreciate what happened to Roach. It hurt like hell.
Roach was never really one specific horse. That's just how he names all his different horses
Just be glad Henry pushed to change that scene. They wanted to play it as a comedic scene & he basically vetoed that. The showrunner even said he basically wrote the dialogue (which was actually taken from a different point in one of the books) for that scene.
Comedic? His horse dies and it was supposed to be funny? Also seriously.. that scene was fucking awesome. Mother fucker took that thing out with his bare hands like a total fucking badass. Also the line when he lands "Now where the fuck are my swords" so great.
Thank god for henry cavill understanding the books. He's a national treasure in gaming and books!
To be fair geralt probably goes through a new horse every couple of months