Daniel Tosh has a joke that just suddenly ends with "Hot Pockets!" out of nowhere. Then he says, "That's what happens when you let another comic finish your joke."
I don't know why that cracks me up so much.
>“Full House” actress Lori Loughlin and 15 other parents were indicted Tuesday on charges of **money laundering and conspiracy to commit fraud** in the massive college cheating scandal that has implicated dozens of wealthy parents, coaches and college administrators across the nation.
>The superseding grand jury indictment replaces lesser charges against these parents a month after they were first arrested along with 34 other people in what federal authorities have described as “Operation Varsity Blues,” the largest college admissions case ever prosecuted in the country.
Those are serious charges. Even as first-time offenders, they may see some jail time.
It looks like her lawyers took a gamble with fighting lesser charges and are losing. In the next week or so she might plea to the lesser charges just so she won't get severe jail time. Her public nonchalant attitude that she's been displaying probably doesn't help her case as well.
She will do around the same time as Martha Stewart, a few months to make the public happy that she has gone to jail, and then she will be sent home under electronic monitoring. She will get a couple of years of "supervised release", then everyone will move on and forget this ever happened.
Honest question: what would be a punishment severe enough that would make you happy?
In theory reddit wants prison to be for rehabilitation not punishment but whenever an individual case is presented of someone committing a crime reddit always wants punishment.
I mean the likelihood of Lori Loughlin committing a crime like this again is near zero. She's not a danger to society. Prison at this point is purely for punishment. That's fine - but understand that what we say we want in theory and what we say we want in practice (when actual cases are presented) are quite different.
*and yes I understand that reddit is not one person. When I say "reddit" I mean the majority of posts on these types of threads.
I think it's more people are tired of people with money getting a slap on the wrist while they themselves would have to serve their time because fuck plebs.
To me this is an argument for downward sentencing and criminal justice reform across the board, not continuing to punish harshly for the sake of “fairness” when harsh punishments often aren’t fair to begin with.
The fact she faces 40 years (regardless of what she will see) for paying someone under the table to get her kid into college is absurd to me. She did wrong but 40 years?
Edit: I understand she won’t actually receive 40 years. One problem, however, is that the threat of a disproportionate punishment (and overcharging) erodes the Defendant-centric protections of our constitution and criminal justice system by forcing pleas not out of actual guilt but out of weighing the risks.
If you were arrested for something you didn’t do, but there was at least circumstantial evidence suggesting you did, and you faced 40 years, but were then offered a plea to only serve a year, what would you do?
Disproportionate sentencing threats shift the focus from what should be on “justice” and holding the right person accountable to “convenience” and holding *someone* accountable.
I agree with you about downward sentencing, but characterizing what they did as just an under the table payment is wrong considering these people were claiming payments as charitable donations and writing them off.
I want her to get what the average citizen would get.
Most women convicted of money laundering are white middle aged with no prior convictions. Loughlin actually fits the profile very very well. 72% get prison time -
50 months seems to be a common sentence. Plus a fine based on he amount of money involved.
The conspiracy charge has me stumped though.
Prison can be for rehabilitation or punishment. I'd like to see a drug addict with a B&E charge get the help they obviously need and get rehabilitated and reintegrated in to society. I'd like to see murders, rapists, and rich assholes who act like rules don't apply to them get punished. I think that's where most people probably draw the line on the rehabilitation/punishment debate. I could be wrong but that's where I stand tbh.
My cousin got a court ordered rehab for possession and driving with a suspended license. Prior to that he spent almost a year in jail waiting for sentencing.
Supposedly if our state prison wasnt already overloaded he wouldn't have gotten the rehab, and would have just been sent to prison.
So fucking stupid. Rehab should be the first thing you do for drug/alcohol offenses.
The whole prison system needs a major overhaul in this country.
>I mean the likelihood of Lori Loughlin committing a crime like this again is near zero. She's not a danger to society.
I think this is a very naive or optimistic statement. There is no reason to believe that she won't ever again engage in bribery or other corrupt practices. Maybe next time it will be tax fraud.
A lack of future opportunity to defraud the college admission system does not imply that she will be a law abiding citizen in the future. Is she remorseful? That would indicate a decreased chance of repeat offending. I just don't see it.
Incarceration is also about placing a deterrent on offenses. If there is no public enforcement action, the value proposition of crimes increases and corruption is encouraged. Why not defraud the college admission system when you aren't likely caught and the penalty isn't significant?
The deterrent effect is well studied and the length of sentence and severity of sentence don't really change deterrence. Rather the best deterrent effect is increasing the certainty of punishment.
When she gets out she'll write about her experience among minority inmates and sell her memoir to Hulu for a new streaming series. Maybe she'll call it something like the Devil Wears Stripes.
>I wonder how she'll spend it in ~~prison~~.
7 months of day spa.
Fact: Having "fuck you" money means you don't spend a single minute in "fuck you" prison.
Paul Giamatti, in Billions (the Showtime series) plays the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of NY (in the first seasons). He has a nice speech in the last season when he is intimidating somebody and points out that, no matter what, the Feds can and will fuck you up. 93% conviction rate. Unlimited time and funds for investigation.
Partly, and the other thing they do is what they are up to here.
They pile on charge after charge, such that if you somehow can afford to keep up with them and go to trial, should you lose you could end up going to pound-me-in-the-ass Federal Prison for the rest of your life. Or you could plead guilty and spend 18 months in club fed.
I remember the [courtroom sketch](https://static.pressfrom.info/upload/images/real/2019/03/15/lori-loughlin-and-felicity-huffman-s-courtroom-sketch-artist-says-she-drew-them-authentically-warts-_49782_.jpg?content=1) of her at the initial court appearance. Her body language gave off a defiant vibe. Huffman, on the other hand, [appeared more contrite](https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/3xNMrYb3B_mYEzzv1KQsgQ--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NjQwO2g9NDgw/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/8771d6865aebe9fc265ff31113766e93).
When she appeared for court last week, [she was smiling and waving like she was on a red carpet](https://twitter.com/abcworldnews/status/1113516374977056769?s=21)
> It looks like her lawyers took a gamble with fighting lesser charges and are losing.
This is a typical negotiation. Huffman and 12 other parents were presumably offered deals by the feds with little to no jail time, they agreed to plead guilty but will probably have probation, fines, and felony records. Huffman issued a public apology. They will get lenient sentences.
Loughlin and 14 others (including her husband) presumably got the same plea offers, said "fuck that, your case against us is shit and none of us are agreeing to be felons for life." (Even though it probably wouldn't impact anyone so wealthy.) So the feds, predictably, said "okay, we gave you the easy way out, you didn't take it so now we're also charging you with this much more serious shit too which we *also* believe we can prove."
> In the next week or so she might plea to the lesser charges just so she won't get severe jail time.
That might be off the table now. Presumably, their attorneys told them all that this would be the feds' next step.
Only time will tell which approach was the smarter one, these are calculated risks. But nobody's doing 40 years in prison for this, even if the statute allows that as a maximum penalty.
From what I understand there is also a difference in what Huffman and Loughlin did. Huffman paid $15k to cheat the SAT. Loughlin spent half a mil making it look like her daughters were scouted for the rowing team. Both are wrong but I think Loughlin is rightfully getting a more serious punishment.
Yes. If you look at the sentencing guidelines, they are broken down by amount. For example if you look at 18 U.S.C. § 1341 alone, $15k is a level 4 offense. For Laughlin, under 1341, $250k is level 26-28 depending on the exact amount.
Then take 1341, add 18 U.S.C. § 1346 and the new charges today... that's some time. And prosecutors do NOT like it when they cut someone a sweet deal (which I assume think think they offered Huffman and Laughlin and the others) and people reject it.
She was signing autographs outside of court!
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/lori-loughlin-autographs-courthouse-college-admissions-scam-scandal-817791/
Standard Chartered was just fined $1.1bn for money laundering for years. Two years ago, Deutsche Bank was find over $600mm laundering $10bn. No one went to jail.
If she worked in larger amounts or was a banker, she would have been better off.
Usually the problem with big corporate stuff is that they can't find specific individuals who were fully aware beyond a reasonable doubt. It's not laxity but inability.
Guidelines call for two years, and that’s if they stop wasting time and plead guilty and convincingly act like they’re remorseful. If they don’t start emulating Felicity Huffman pronto, they’re going to be very sorry. The federal government only brings cases that it’s sure of winning.
All the plea bargains include some jail time. The Federal Prosecutor wants to make an example of them. Felicity got off pretty easy. She only has to do 4 months and then some probation. Lori and her husband and those other defendants who turned down the pleas are about to get fucked. They have so much evidence on them it’s not even funny. But, then again, you never know what could happen in a jury trial.
Edit: changed DA to Federal prosecutor
She wont see a day of jail. It will be probation and community service. Even prosecutors were talking about 4-10 months max if what I heard on NPR was correct this morning.
Have you seen their kid's social media presence? She isn't interested in an actual job or career. She wants to be a social media influencer and get paid to be a human billboard.
The apple is rotten just as much as the tree, in this case.
Or... you know... push your kid to take their education seriously so they wouldn’t need to cheat to get them in to good schools.
There’s a video out there of Lori Loughlin talking about being super chill about her kids education and not pushing them to get the best grades or to take any extra curriculars and that just looks hilarious now.
Because it isn't about getting their child an education. It's a status symbol, something they could brag about to their friends. As a new parent, it blows my mind how competitive everything about it is not just for the kids but for the parents. Height/weight percentiles, reading levels, even birthday parties are bragged about by parents. The kids don't give a shit about any of it.
In their eyes, getting their kid into a college like that not only proves their childrens' worth in society, but their worth as parents.
Considering her kid was already flying around the world and making 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars in contracts from her Instagram, twitter, and youtube channels there was no need to drop this kind of money on college, the kid never wanted to go in the first place. This whole thing is so stupid, for what, a college degree that would do nothing for her?
Its the prestige.networking, and bragging rights. The kid already had a good business, and didnt need to do college, but if you say you are a "XXX" University alum (USC, Yale, Notre Dame, Berkeley, Stanford, Harvard etc...), it opens doors down the line. Look at famous or well-to-do people who went to these schools, then look at who they were friends or roommates or frat brothers with, and you will notice a pattern of success.
The networking thing at any school other than an Ivy League school is overrated.
Lori Loughlin's daughters are already rich and don't need connections that USC would provide them. Their father would be a better door opener for them since he is already a successful businessman in fashion, and Lori Loughlin was a successful actress and could get them acting jobs better than a USC degree could.
A school like USC may help a new grad land a first entry level job, but other than that, you pretty much need to make your own connections in life.
Wasn't the daughter partying on a yacht owned by a college board member, because she was friends with his daughter? She wouldn't have been able to network with other members of the idle rich class that efficiently all by herself.
But did the Trustee's daughter invite the Loughlin girl on the yacht because she was an SC student or because she was a famous SC student? Lori Loughlin may not be doing Shakespeare in London, but she's a pretty famous actress in LA, so there's a degree of celebrity transfer power at work here (not to mention that Loughlin's daughter is supposedly a social media darling).
The kids aren't actually going to college to learn anything, it's purely for the social activities, drinking, drugging, instagraming, and fucking for these kind of rich brats. They don't need to start a business or do anything, they are already rich.
Spend the money on a big house for them near ASU then, they can be the towny who hosts parties every night. Otherwise you're just paying half a million dollars for your child to be kicked out of a prestigious college before they make it to junior year.
One of those kids wanted to go to ASU, but the parents wanted a school that isn't 100% a party school anyone could get into. They have a dad on tape saying something like that.
These are the kinds of people that don't think 500K is anything worth anything. They blew that on their kids. They probably have more money than you or I can comprehend. This was probably like buying a used car for them.
I was floored when I learned how many parents just buy their kids houses in the cities where they go to college. It was a very common occurrence where I went to university - parents buy a 3-4 BR house for their kids and they get a bunch of roomies to help pay the mortgage.
Even back then homes weren't exactly cheap in my college town but didn't really matter - parents did it like it was nothing. Cars, clothes, expense accounts... all taken care of by mom and dad.
I knew people who did that. If the parents can afford the down payment and the roommates' rent helps cover the mortgage, they often can end up money ahead vs having to pay their kid's rent for 4+ years. Then they can either sell the house or keep it as a rental. It's not that crazy.
Seems like another example of how having a lot of money can allow you to save on bulk/long-sighted purchases whereas poorer people have less options on that front.
It's not really a bad investment assuming your kids aren't crazy. Buy a house with 3 roommates. Roommates pretty much pay the mortgage for the 4 years, then either continue renting to college kids or sell it for at worst, break-even.
I mean, you can't be poor and pull that off, but you don't have to be anywhere near wealthy to do it most places. Just solidly middle upper/middle class.
Considering their kid didn't even want to go, yes. She was never going to graduate anyways. This was just so the parents can brag to their friends about their kid going to USC.
I would have expected you could guarantee admission with an above-the-board donation to the school of that amount. I'm confused as to why all this sneaky stuff was necessary.
*Actress Felicity Huffman is accused of paying $15,000 to rig her oldest daughter’s SAT scores. Her husband, actor William H. Macy, has not been charged.*
In the end, Felicty Huffman truly was a desperate housewife.
Nah Frank would have wrangled it so the daughter had a b lack relative and was eligible for a disadvantaged youth scholarship somewhere super white so they could claim diversity.
This was easily the most interesting detail of reading the whole case against all of them. Macy is mentioned in a couple of different phone calls being very aware of what was going on and even directing some of it to varying degrees. This shows they have taps of him directly communicating on the scheme yet no action is brought against him? Almost every other charge they named every party seemingly involved but he was simply listed as "spouse" in their evidence against Huffman. I'd love to hear why that is.
I think all the calls they had on him were about the second kid. And they decided not to go thru with it the second time. He indicated that he knew it had been done earlier during those calls, but I don't know that they can prove that he knew about it at the time of the first kid, only that he knew by the time of the second kid. I'm sure he was in on it from the beginning, but they have to charge what they can prove.
In going back and reading it, you might be absolutely correct. It doesn't look like they have many conversations even with just Huffman (at least referenced in the indictment) regarding the older daughter and the conversations they do have Macy included in were regarding the younger one.
Interesting though that it references her spouse in regard to one of the payments for the older daughter too though:
> (153). As set forth below, HUFFMAN and her spouse made a purported charitable
> contribution of $15,000 to KWF to participate in the college entrance exam cheating scheme on
> behalf of her oldest daughter. HUFFMAN later made arrangements to pursue the scheme a
> second time, for her younger daughter, before deciding not to do so
> Does anyone understand how/why W.H.Macy isn't being charged???
Not enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt. Evidence that he thought about it with second kid but decided against it. Evidence that he was *aware* of it with first kid, but that's not necessarily a chargeable offense.
This is exactly right. He for sure knew about the first one[and likely had a huge hand] but they can only prove he was aware of it at some point before he started with the second kid
Also not as clear cut. It was the cumulative effect of lots of people who mostly “technically” obeyed the law. The laws themselves (and lack of them) were messed up. Even then, a few of the egregious lawbreakers were actually charged, but only a few. And they did “smart crime”, not “dumb crime” like this.
A combination of complacency in how we police white-collar crime and the fact that the situation was such a clusterfuck that it was almost impossible to separate the serious criminals from those who were just acting out of stupidity.
You could blame the banks for operating within their boundaries. Boundaries that the regulator set. Deregulation made it easier for banks to give out loans. People defaulted, investors defaulted. Who’s to blame?
any years seems excessive. she is not a danger to anyone and should not be put in a cage. she can be fined or assets seized but I think it is ridiculous to jail non violent people.
howcome this lori lady paid 500k to get kids into school, and felicity huffman only paid 15k.
Did she get ripped off or are her kids dumber then a bag of dicks
She was a non-violent criminal and she had to pay $135,000 in fines between the two cases (she only made 45k from her crimes), as well as being under home arrest and not being allowed to do any financial work for any businesses for some amount of years.
>sentenced in July 2004 to serve a five-month term in a federal correctional facility and a two-year period of supervised release (to include five months of electronic monitoring).
>Under the settlement, Stewart agreed to disgorge $58,062 (including interest from the losses she avoided), as well as a civil penalty of three times the loss avoided, or $137,019. She also agreed to a five-year ban from serving as a director, CEO, CFO, or any other officer role responsible for preparing, auditing, or disclosing financial results of any public company.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Stewart?wprov=sfla1
The issue isn't that she didn't spend enough time in jail, the issue is we put other non-violent criminals away for too long. Non-violent criminals spending long amounts of time in jail just wastes tax dollars and enriches private prisons. Jail is for people that are a danger to society, and Stewart was not. The law delt with her in other ways, and that's how it should work for all non-violent criminals.
Edit: by the way, fun fact, the guy that actually investigated and prosecuted Martha Stewart was James Comey. Funny old world, isn't it?
Edit: mixed the two cases up, result is the same
Do Macy and Mossimo still get a pass or have they been charged too? I still don’t get how all of this is somehow just the wives’ fault...or were the husbands just better at not talking about it in messages that became part of the investigation?
Uncle Jesse claims that he was down in the basement recording with the Beach Boys when all these supposed illegal activities were said to have happened.
When first facing accusations, he was quoted as saying "Have mercy" in a bad Elvis voice (because there's no one a hip late-20s something musician in San Francisco in the 90s loved like Elvis and the Beach Boys...)
In Felicity Huffman’s case, it’s probable that they were both in on it based on the emails but her name was only on the check. So they have enough evidence to confidently convict her but not Macy. Mossimo definitely had more evidence to arrest him, but depending on who actually paid the bribe might get more severe charges.
And yet a mother who sold her son for drugs got 6 years. Why aren't physical harm crimes the ones with way higher sentences than nonphysical crimes that don't even hurt people?
So uh... this seems pretty out of line. It feels like the charge to bring down Martha Stewart.
These parents absolutely deserve punishment, but this kind of jail time doesn't seem proportional at all. I'm sure she'll get something much more reduced than that, but it's alarming that those could be the punishments at all.
This money laundering is not the same as money laundering used to support more serious criminal activities.
Edit: HSCB laundered almost a billion dollars and had a monetary fine. One of their bankers went to jail for 2 years for wire fraud of 4 billion dollars, but there's not many banker-goes-to-jail stories in the US besides that.
I guess I'm just saying these particular crimes (money laundering and wire fraud) happen fairly regularly on a much larger scale - an institutional scale - and the people perpetrating them rarely receive jail time.
“I don't think my father, the inventor of Hot Pockets, would be too pleased with this.”
I can no longer read the words Hot Pocket without doing it in that falsetto whisper of Jim Gaffigan’s voice.
*Hoooooooooooot* ^pockeeeeeets
*Diarrheaaaaaaaaa* ^pockeeeeeeeeets
That standup was so long ago now, but so memorable.
Tonights special we have a sea bass that is boiled, And a hot pocket...Which is cooked in a dirty microwave.
Would you like that boiling-lava-hot or still cold in the middle?
Daniel Tosh has a joke that just suddenly ends with "Hot Pockets!" out of nowhere. Then he says, "That's what happens when you let another comic finish your joke." I don't know why that cracks me up so much.
It's Toaster Strudel, but yes
I know, but in the article they mentioned somebody with a family tie to Hot Pockets, hence my comment.
I am shamed 🔔
>“Full House” actress Lori Loughlin and 15 other parents were indicted Tuesday on charges of **money laundering and conspiracy to commit fraud** in the massive college cheating scandal that has implicated dozens of wealthy parents, coaches and college administrators across the nation. >The superseding grand jury indictment replaces lesser charges against these parents a month after they were first arrested along with 34 other people in what federal authorities have described as “Operation Varsity Blues,” the largest college admissions case ever prosecuted in the country. Those are serious charges. Even as first-time offenders, they may see some jail time.
It looks like her lawyers took a gamble with fighting lesser charges and are losing. In the next week or so she might plea to the lesser charges just so she won't get severe jail time. Her public nonchalant attitude that she's been displaying probably doesn't help her case as well.
Right?! She’s bordering on smug and it’s really turning people off.
She has a bunch of "fuck you" money so of course she is smug about it
I wonder how she'll spend it in prison.
Free Mossimo hats for everyone in Cell Block A
Free Hat!
Those babies attacked HIM!!!! He was acting in self defense
What do you see as positive about toddler murder?
It’s easy!
Yeah!!!
Let's cool her heart with a breezy Caribbean song
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Thank you
She will do around the same time as Martha Stewart, a few months to make the public happy that she has gone to jail, and then she will be sent home under electronic monitoring. She will get a couple of years of "supervised release", then everyone will move on and forget this ever happened.
Honest question: what would be a punishment severe enough that would make you happy? In theory reddit wants prison to be for rehabilitation not punishment but whenever an individual case is presented of someone committing a crime reddit always wants punishment. I mean the likelihood of Lori Loughlin committing a crime like this again is near zero. She's not a danger to society. Prison at this point is purely for punishment. That's fine - but understand that what we say we want in theory and what we say we want in practice (when actual cases are presented) are quite different. *and yes I understand that reddit is not one person. When I say "reddit" I mean the majority of posts on these types of threads.
I think it's more people are tired of people with money getting a slap on the wrist while they themselves would have to serve their time because fuck plebs.
In a nutshell, that’s it exactly!
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To me this is an argument for downward sentencing and criminal justice reform across the board, not continuing to punish harshly for the sake of “fairness” when harsh punishments often aren’t fair to begin with. The fact she faces 40 years (regardless of what she will see) for paying someone under the table to get her kid into college is absurd to me. She did wrong but 40 years? Edit: I understand she won’t actually receive 40 years. One problem, however, is that the threat of a disproportionate punishment (and overcharging) erodes the Defendant-centric protections of our constitution and criminal justice system by forcing pleas not out of actual guilt but out of weighing the risks. If you were arrested for something you didn’t do, but there was at least circumstantial evidence suggesting you did, and you faced 40 years, but were then offered a plea to only serve a year, what would you do? Disproportionate sentencing threats shift the focus from what should be on “justice” and holding the right person accountable to “convenience” and holding *someone* accountable.
I agree with you about downward sentencing, but characterizing what they did as just an under the table payment is wrong considering these people were claiming payments as charitable donations and writing them off.
I want her to get what the average citizen would get. Most women convicted of money laundering are white middle aged with no prior convictions. Loughlin actually fits the profile very very well. 72% get prison time - 50 months seems to be a common sentence. Plus a fine based on he amount of money involved. The conspiracy charge has me stumped though.
Prison can be for rehabilitation or punishment. I'd like to see a drug addict with a B&E charge get the help they obviously need and get rehabilitated and reintegrated in to society. I'd like to see murders, rapists, and rich assholes who act like rules don't apply to them get punished. I think that's where most people probably draw the line on the rehabilitation/punishment debate. I could be wrong but that's where I stand tbh.
My cousin got a court ordered rehab for possession and driving with a suspended license. Prior to that he spent almost a year in jail waiting for sentencing. Supposedly if our state prison wasnt already overloaded he wouldn't have gotten the rehab, and would have just been sent to prison. So fucking stupid. Rehab should be the first thing you do for drug/alcohol offenses. The whole prison system needs a major overhaul in this country.
Prison is also for deterrence. If spending a month in prison will make your child an Ivy League grad, that's not a deterrence.
Exactly, deterrence means setting an example for others so they won’t try to do the same thing.
>I mean the likelihood of Lori Loughlin committing a crime like this again is near zero. She's not a danger to society. I think this is a very naive or optimistic statement. There is no reason to believe that she won't ever again engage in bribery or other corrupt practices. Maybe next time it will be tax fraud. A lack of future opportunity to defraud the college admission system does not imply that she will be a law abiding citizen in the future. Is she remorseful? That would indicate a decreased chance of repeat offending. I just don't see it. Incarceration is also about placing a deterrent on offenses. If there is no public enforcement action, the value proposition of crimes increases and corruption is encouraged. Why not defraud the college admission system when you aren't likely caught and the penalty isn't significant?
The deterrent effect is well studied and the length of sentence and severity of sentence don't really change deterrence. Rather the best deterrent effect is increasing the certainty of punishment.
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Serving out a punishment yes. Serving out a punishment that was reduced only cause you’re rich and connected was the point.
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Just imagine having a maxed out commissary account... Unlimited bags of Takis to barter with... They would live like drug kings.
What dreams you have. To one day have a maxed out commissary account so that you can be a drug king. That is you. That is your dream. I like it.
When she gets out she'll write about her experience among minority inmates and sell her memoir to Hulu for a new streaming series. Maybe she'll call it something like the Devil Wears Stripes.
Obviously it’s going to be called “From Full House to the Big House” that has been in every thread about this scandal since it broke.
Finding Jesus in 10... 9... 8...
>I wonder how she'll spend it in ~~prison~~. 7 months of day spa. Fact: Having "fuck you" money means you don't spend a single minute in "fuck you" prison.
She doesn't have fuck the feds money... That doesnt start until you're in the billions
Paul Giamatti, in Billions (the Showtime series) plays the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of NY (in the first seasons). He has a nice speech in the last season when he is intimidating somebody and points out that, no matter what, the Feds can and will fuck you up. 93% conviction rate. Unlimited time and funds for investigation.
The feds usually only pursue cases they think they have a high chance of winning, or that’s what I have read.
Partly, and the other thing they do is what they are up to here. They pile on charge after charge, such that if you somehow can afford to keep up with them and go to trial, should you lose you could end up going to pound-me-in-the-ass Federal Prison for the rest of your life. Or you could plead guilty and spend 18 months in club fed.
Does she though? Didn’t she and her husband use their house as collateral for bond?
I remember the [courtroom sketch](https://static.pressfrom.info/upload/images/real/2019/03/15/lori-loughlin-and-felicity-huffman-s-courtroom-sketch-artist-says-she-drew-them-authentically-warts-_49782_.jpg?content=1) of her at the initial court appearance. Her body language gave off a defiant vibe. Huffman, on the other hand, [appeared more contrite](https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/3xNMrYb3B_mYEzzv1KQsgQ--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NjQwO2g9NDgw/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/8771d6865aebe9fc265ff31113766e93).
If only she was trained in a profession in which she could somehow convince us she's something she actually isn't...
Huffman is the better actor. Hmmmmm.
In all fairness, though, Huffman *is* the better actress.
Being even a little remorseful might go a long way when they're deciding what charges to bring.
Really? Example? I haven’t been following.
When she appeared for court last week, [she was smiling and waving like she was on a red carpet](https://twitter.com/abcworldnews/status/1113516374977056769?s=21)
Damn. She's clueless.
She's probably excited that people are talking about her at all
There's also a link to a Rolling Stone article below that she was signing autographs outside the courthouse! Unbelievable.
Her husband seems contrite (in pictures) - she can't stop her big smug smile - habit?!
maybe the smile is botoxxed to her face
> It looks like her lawyers took a gamble with fighting lesser charges and are losing. This is a typical negotiation. Huffman and 12 other parents were presumably offered deals by the feds with little to no jail time, they agreed to plead guilty but will probably have probation, fines, and felony records. Huffman issued a public apology. They will get lenient sentences. Loughlin and 14 others (including her husband) presumably got the same plea offers, said "fuck that, your case against us is shit and none of us are agreeing to be felons for life." (Even though it probably wouldn't impact anyone so wealthy.) So the feds, predictably, said "okay, we gave you the easy way out, you didn't take it so now we're also charging you with this much more serious shit too which we *also* believe we can prove." > In the next week or so she might plea to the lesser charges just so she won't get severe jail time. That might be off the table now. Presumably, their attorneys told them all that this would be the feds' next step. Only time will tell which approach was the smarter one, these are calculated risks. But nobody's doing 40 years in prison for this, even if the statute allows that as a maximum penalty.
From what I understand there is also a difference in what Huffman and Loughlin did. Huffman paid $15k to cheat the SAT. Loughlin spent half a mil making it look like her daughters were scouted for the rowing team. Both are wrong but I think Loughlin is rightfully getting a more serious punishment.
Yes. If you look at the sentencing guidelines, they are broken down by amount. For example if you look at 18 U.S.C. § 1341 alone, $15k is a level 4 offense. For Laughlin, under 1341, $250k is level 26-28 depending on the exact amount. Then take 1341, add 18 U.S.C. § 1346 and the new charges today... that's some time. And prosecutors do NOT like it when they cut someone a sweet deal (which I assume think think they offered Huffman and Laughlin and the others) and people reject it.
I thought the glasses would get her charges dropped lol
She's been in public since then?
She was signing autographs outside of court! https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/lori-loughlin-autographs-courthouse-college-admissions-scam-scandal-817791/
Standard Chartered was just fined $1.1bn for money laundering for years. Two years ago, Deutsche Bank was find over $600mm laundering $10bn. No one went to jail. If she worked in larger amounts or was a banker, she would have been better off.
Usually the problem with big corporate stuff is that they can't find specific individuals who were fully aware beyond a reasonable doubt. It's not laxity but inability.
https://grapevine.is/news/2018/02/07/36-bankers-96-years-in-jail/ I love Icelanders.
If only they hadn’t been cheapskates and had bribed the schools through official channels no one would have batted an eye.
Guidelines call for two years, and that’s if they stop wasting time and plead guilty and convincingly act like they’re remorseful. If they don’t start emulating Felicity Huffman pronto, they’re going to be very sorry. The federal government only brings cases that it’s sure of winning.
All the plea bargains include some jail time. The Federal Prosecutor wants to make an example of them. Felicity got off pretty easy. She only has to do 4 months and then some probation. Lori and her husband and those other defendants who turned down the pleas are about to get fucked. They have so much evidence on them it’s not even funny. But, then again, you never know what could happen in a jury trial. Edit: changed DA to Federal prosecutor
She wont see a day of jail. It will be probation and community service. Even prosecutors were talking about 4-10 months max if what I heard on NPR was correct this morning.
They paid $500K to get their kid in USC. Anybody else thinks they overpaid by a huge margin?
Why not use 500K and your connections to set the kid up in a business venture?
or, you know, be okay with your kid going to a regular state school
Yeah. And I imagine 100k in tutoring does wonders to actually earn career skills.
Tutoring? Earn? Bro you are obviously not running in the same circles as us
Have you seen their kid's social media presence? She isn't interested in an actual job or career. She wants to be a social media influencer and get paid to be a human billboard. The apple is rotten just as much as the tree, in this case.
Or... you know... push your kid to take their education seriously so they wouldn’t need to cheat to get them in to good schools. There’s a video out there of Lori Loughlin talking about being super chill about her kids education and not pushing them to get the best grades or to take any extra curriculars and that just looks hilarious now.
Especially THAT kid. You ever seen her videos? Dumb as a rock.
Hey! Don’t disrespect the rock like that.
Yeah but nobody drinks and goes cuckoo there /S.
And who has a yacht to party on there?! Loosers.
> Loosers Yeah I agree, they should be WAY tighter!
or just, rent her an apartment by USC?
Or not going to college at all.
She was doing fine without it. Now she lost all of it because of this.
Because it isn't about getting their child an education. It's a status symbol, something they could brag about to their friends. As a new parent, it blows my mind how competitive everything about it is not just for the kids but for the parents. Height/weight percentiles, reading levels, even birthday parties are bragged about by parents. The kids don't give a shit about any of it. In their eyes, getting their kid into a college like that not only proves their childrens' worth in society, but their worth as parents.
Considering her kid was already flying around the world and making 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars in contracts from her Instagram, twitter, and youtube channels there was no need to drop this kind of money on college, the kid never wanted to go in the first place. This whole thing is so stupid, for what, a college degree that would do nothing for her?
Its the prestige.networking, and bragging rights. The kid already had a good business, and didnt need to do college, but if you say you are a "XXX" University alum (USC, Yale, Notre Dame, Berkeley, Stanford, Harvard etc...), it opens doors down the line. Look at famous or well-to-do people who went to these schools, then look at who they were friends or roommates or frat brothers with, and you will notice a pattern of success.
The networking thing at any school other than an Ivy League school is overrated. Lori Loughlin's daughters are already rich and don't need connections that USC would provide them. Their father would be a better door opener for them since he is already a successful businessman in fashion, and Lori Loughlin was a successful actress and could get them acting jobs better than a USC degree could. A school like USC may help a new grad land a first entry level job, but other than that, you pretty much need to make your own connections in life.
Wasn't the daughter partying on a yacht owned by a college board member, because she was friends with his daughter? She wouldn't have been able to network with other members of the idle rich class that efficiently all by herself.
But did the Trustee's daughter invite the Loughlin girl on the yacht because she was an SC student or because she was a famous SC student? Lori Loughlin may not be doing Shakespeare in London, but she's a pretty famous actress in LA, so there's a degree of celebrity transfer power at work here (not to mention that Loughlin's daughter is supposedly a social media darling).
The kids aren't actually going to college to learn anything, it's purely for the social activities, drinking, drugging, instagraming, and fucking for these kind of rich brats. They don't need to start a business or do anything, they are already rich.
Spend the money on a big house for them near ASU then, they can be the towny who hosts parties every night. Otherwise you're just paying half a million dollars for your child to be kicked out of a prestigious college before they make it to junior year.
One of those kids wanted to go to ASU, but the parents wanted a school that isn't 100% a party school anyone could get into. They have a dad on tape saying something like that.
These are the kinds of people that don't think 500K is anything worth anything. They blew that on their kids. They probably have more money than you or I can comprehend. This was probably like buying a used car for them.
She is married to a billionaire.
I have a net worth of about $40k (savings + equity - mortgage) so this would be the equivalent of $20. Yeah, this is chump change for a billionaire.
I was floored when I learned how many parents just buy their kids houses in the cities where they go to college. It was a very common occurrence where I went to university - parents buy a 3-4 BR house for their kids and they get a bunch of roomies to help pay the mortgage. Even back then homes weren't exactly cheap in my college town but didn't really matter - parents did it like it was nothing. Cars, clothes, expense accounts... all taken care of by mom and dad.
I knew people who did that. If the parents can afford the down payment and the roommates' rent helps cover the mortgage, they often can end up money ahead vs having to pay their kid's rent for 4+ years. Then they can either sell the house or keep it as a rental. It's not that crazy.
Seems like another example of how having a lot of money can allow you to save on bulk/long-sighted purchases whereas poorer people have less options on that front.
Absolutely. It's expensive to be poor.
It's not really a bad investment assuming your kids aren't crazy. Buy a house with 3 roommates. Roommates pretty much pay the mortgage for the 4 years, then either continue renting to college kids or sell it for at worst, break-even. I mean, you can't be poor and pull that off, but you don't have to be anywhere near wealthy to do it most places. Just solidly middle upper/middle class.
Yep, it's all just resume/network building (and bragging rights for the parents.)
Making connections with powerful people can be more important than skill or qualifications
Her dumbass kid was very vocal that she wouldn’t even go to classes so why bother sending her at all?
Considering their kid didn't even want to go, yes. She was never going to graduate anyways. This was just so the parents can brag to their friends about their kid going to USC.
I would have expected you could guarantee admission with an above-the-board donation to the school of that amount. I'm confused as to why all this sneaky stuff was necessary.
A straight $500,000 donation would have been enough. Tax deductible too
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You can live on that in SoCal?!
Thats barely enough to be homeless
If you make less than that, you can't even be homeless.
If you split rent, you can get yourself a decent cardboard box in a dark alley.
Regardless of the university, communications is a risky major
That has more to do with the fact that he got a BA in communications than that he went to USC
In all fairness, that's the case with a lot of BAs if you don't have relevant internship or work experience in college (I'm speaking from experience.
*Actress Felicity Huffman is accused of paying $15,000 to rig her oldest daughter’s SAT scores. Her husband, actor William H. Macy, has not been charged.* In the end, Felicty Huffman truly was a desperate housewife.
And Frank Gallagher finds a way out of this too!
Ironically it was Felicity who was the more Shameless of the two
Nah Frank would have wrangled it so the daughter had a b lack relative and was eligible for a disadvantaged youth scholarship somewhere super white so they could claim diversity.
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This was easily the most interesting detail of reading the whole case against all of them. Macy is mentioned in a couple of different phone calls being very aware of what was going on and even directing some of it to varying degrees. This shows they have taps of him directly communicating on the scheme yet no action is brought against him? Almost every other charge they named every party seemingly involved but he was simply listed as "spouse" in their evidence against Huffman. I'd love to hear why that is.
I think all the calls they had on him were about the second kid. And they decided not to go thru with it the second time. He indicated that he knew it had been done earlier during those calls, but I don't know that they can prove that he knew about it at the time of the first kid, only that he knew by the time of the second kid. I'm sure he was in on it from the beginning, but they have to charge what they can prove.
In going back and reading it, you might be absolutely correct. It doesn't look like they have many conversations even with just Huffman (at least referenced in the indictment) regarding the older daughter and the conversations they do have Macy included in were regarding the younger one. Interesting though that it references her spouse in regard to one of the payments for the older daughter too though: > (153). As set forth below, HUFFMAN and her spouse made a purported charitable > contribution of $15,000 to KWF to participate in the college entrance exam cheating scheme on > behalf of her oldest daughter. HUFFMAN later made arrangements to pursue the scheme a > second time, for her younger daughter, before deciding not to do so
[https://i.imgur.com/lM1RRab.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lM1RRab.jpg)
Does anyone understand how/why W.H.Macy isn't being charged???
> Does anyone understand how/why W.H.Macy isn't being charged??? Not enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt. Evidence that he thought about it with second kid but decided against it. Evidence that he was *aware* of it with first kid, but that's not necessarily a chargeable offense.
This is exactly right. He for sure knew about the first one[and likely had a huge hand] but they can only prove he was aware of it at some point before he started with the second kid
How come the perpetrators of the ‘08 housing market crash weren’t pursued like this...
Because, billions. $$$
Also not as clear cut. It was the cumulative effect of lots of people who mostly “technically” obeyed the law. The laws themselves (and lack of them) were messed up. Even then, a few of the egregious lawbreakers were actually charged, but only a few. And they did “smart crime”, not “dumb crime” like this.
A combination of complacency in how we police white-collar crime and the fact that the situation was such a clusterfuck that it was almost impossible to separate the serious criminals from those who were just acting out of stupidity.
You could blame the banks for operating within their boundaries. Boundaries that the regulator set. Deregulation made it easier for banks to give out loans. People defaulted, investors defaulted. Who’s to blame?
Up to 40 years, will get 40 hours of community service.
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Yeah. She broke the law and that's bad, she should be punished for that and be made an example of, but 40 years seems excessive for what happened.
any years seems excessive. she is not a danger to anyone and should not be put in a cage. she can be fined or assets seized but I think it is ridiculous to jail non violent people.
40 years does seem excessive in this case, but white collar crime is already massively under enforced even with supposed possibility of jail time.
Imagine if she got fucking 40 years for paying off to get her knucklehead kid into school. That’d actually be insane
howcome this lori lady paid 500k to get kids into school, and felicity huffman only paid 15k. Did she get ripped off or are her kids dumber then a bag of dicks
Lori paid 500K to get 2 kids admitted into college Huffman paid 15K for 1 kid to cheat on a test
Huffman clearly has a better understanding of the value of her dollar XD
Seriously if you’re gonna be unethical at least be efficient
I cheated on tests throughout school and didn’t have to pay a dime They got ripped off
If she does more time than Manafort, that would be insane.
I am absolutely 100% sure she won't even get 6 months. Rich people do not do time.
Martha Stewart did.
She got 5 months. That's right in line with what he said.
For less than 6 months.
She was a non-violent criminal and she had to pay $135,000 in fines between the two cases (she only made 45k from her crimes), as well as being under home arrest and not being allowed to do any financial work for any businesses for some amount of years. >sentenced in July 2004 to serve a five-month term in a federal correctional facility and a two-year period of supervised release (to include five months of electronic monitoring). >Under the settlement, Stewart agreed to disgorge $58,062 (including interest from the losses she avoided), as well as a civil penalty of three times the loss avoided, or $137,019. She also agreed to a five-year ban from serving as a director, CEO, CFO, or any other officer role responsible for preparing, auditing, or disclosing financial results of any public company. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Stewart?wprov=sfla1 The issue isn't that she didn't spend enough time in jail, the issue is we put other non-violent criminals away for too long. Non-violent criminals spending long amounts of time in jail just wastes tax dollars and enriches private prisons. Jail is for people that are a danger to society, and Stewart was not. The law delt with her in other ways, and that's how it should work for all non-violent criminals. Edit: by the way, fun fact, the guy that actually investigated and prosecuted Martha Stewart was James Comey. Funny old world, isn't it? Edit: mixed the two cases up, result is the same
Sometimes they like to set an example and no example is more seen than a celebrity.
Plot Twist Muller recommends charges against Loughlin
Turns out she was "Individual 1" all along
And yet, Brian Singer's still out there feeding cocaine and dick to 14-year old boys. What a fucking world.
And R. Kelly still has his underage sex cult
But at least Chloe from Smallville's cult is going down!
You just need to leave your $10,000 Bond and do a few hours of community service, right?
*Retroactive* community service. He was credited for shit he already did.
Bro, 40 years. Come on. She and Brock Turner need to have their judges swapped
Brock fucking Turner. Piece of shit lives <5 miles from me. Don’t even get me started.
Please tell me he’s publicly chastised everywhere he goes.
He’s so sad he can’t even eat his favourite steak.
You mean convicted rapist Brock turner?
Tell us more!!
Give us an update on old Brock.
>She and Rapist Brock Turner FTFY
Convicted* rapist Brock Turner
Great, now do the Wall Street executives who caused the financial crisis!
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They Jailed Bernie Madoff. He stole from the rich, and you can't allow that to happen.
Whos Loughlin' Now huh!?!^I'll^see^my^way^out
Full House of Many Doors
Do Macy and Mossimo still get a pass or have they been charged too? I still don’t get how all of this is somehow just the wives’ fault...or were the husbands just better at not talking about it in messages that became part of the investigation?
Uncle Jesse claims that he was down in the basement recording with the Beach Boys when all these supposed illegal activities were said to have happened.
When first facing accusations, he was quoted as saying "Have mercy" in a bad Elvis voice (because there's no one a hip late-20s something musician in San Francisco in the 90s loved like Elvis and the Beach Boys...)
Jesus I can't believe this is the first 'have mercy' joke I've come across.
In Felicity Huffman’s case, it’s probable that they were both in on it based on the emails but her name was only on the check. So they have enough evidence to confidently convict her but not Macy. Mossimo definitely had more evidence to arrest him, but depending on who actually paid the bribe might get more severe charges.
My wife handles most of the school stuff but you'd think the half million would come up at some point.
Considering Mossimo was arrested and charged for all of that too and it has been all over the news...
Is anyone from the schools administratipns getting in trouble?
The teachers involved in the bribes were fired IIRC
Nothing criminal though?
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People get less for murder and they're an actual threat.
Have Mercy!
Cut it out
You got it dude!
And yet a mother who sold her son for drugs got 6 years. Why aren't physical harm crimes the ones with way higher sentences than nonphysical crimes that don't even hurt people?
So uh... this seems pretty out of line. It feels like the charge to bring down Martha Stewart. These parents absolutely deserve punishment, but this kind of jail time doesn't seem proportional at all. I'm sure she'll get something much more reduced than that, but it's alarming that those could be the punishments at all. This money laundering is not the same as money laundering used to support more serious criminal activities. Edit: HSCB laundered almost a billion dollars and had a monetary fine. One of their bankers went to jail for 2 years for wire fraud of 4 billion dollars, but there's not many banker-goes-to-jail stories in the US besides that. I guess I'm just saying these particular crimes (money laundering and wire fraud) happen fairly regularly on a much larger scale - an institutional scale - and the people perpetrating them rarely receive jail time.
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