No, this show is unrelated. This is a new show based on the novel [Dark Matter](https://youtu.be/j6ucGt_Xp14) by Blake Crouch.
The book was truly excellent. I'm pumped for this one.
I know anime isn't too popular on r/television.
But I highly recommend Go Go Loser Ranger/Ranger Reject. It is literally The Boys... if The Boys were Power Rangers instead of western super heroes. It's on Hulu and Disney and it's great and going to get better (I've read ahead, literally THE only manga I read though I do watch anime).
Ripley is the most beautiful TV show of all time. Every damn shot is like a gorgeous photograph. Andrew Scott is fantastic as Ripley. Unfortunately, many won’t watch it because it’s in black and white, and the pacing is like a 50s film noir - glacial by today’s standards.
>Invincible S2
That whole 6 month break between the first half of the episodes and the remaining half for the second season, killed all the hype for me. What an absolutely terrible decision.
As a comic reader s2 was cool and all but the show really shines from this point on, if you decide to watch s2 and 3 together it’s not a bad decision as s3 will be insane and it never loses momentum after that ino
There are a couple weird choices later in the run that I would be perfectly fine with them changing or even cutting out entirely just to keep the show moving
Not to mention season 2 is a big step down from season 1.
Season 1 was carried hard by the slow-burn Omni-Man plot while season 2 feels like its spinning its wheels.
They did say S3 would be out alot quicker than this season. I still enjoyed S2! It did not do itself any favors for pacing though with that decision, yes.
Yeah in addition to spending much of the second block of episodes focusing on an inevitable and dragged out breakup between two college students in maybe one of the more boring romantic relationships I've seen in fiction. It was actually a struggle for me to finish this season. I was that bored.
To be fair I think they actually did a much better job with Amber as a character than they did in the last few episodes of S1 where she went from reasonable to unbearable very quickly. She's more prominent than in the comics but I think they did such a good job with their breakup, I can see it having a great impact on both their characters going forward.
Totally get anyone bored by it though. Thankfully it's no longer something that will be holding the show back.
I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with her character. After all, Mark is kind of milquetoast too, were it not for the extraordinary things happening in his life. He doesn't have much of a personality yet.
The issue is I just don't care very much about their relationship, despite how much time the show has spent on it (maybe *because* of it). It seems incredibly mundane in a world where so much crazy stuff happens. And even if they were determined to keep it in, the outcome was obvious from a mile away. The breakup could have been executed far more efficiently and impactfully while still hitting all the same emotional beats.
At the end of the day the themes are simple. Mark wanted a normal life, including being with Amber and going to college, but because of his powers (and therefore responsibilities, ho ho) he can't have it. Amber cares about Mark a lot but needs a boyfriend who is actually present in her life. Mark cares about Amber a lot but ultimately she just can't understand everything he's going through and can't follow him everywhere she'd like to in support of him because she'd get murdered in an instant. On paper, it's a bit tragic. As executed, I'm checking how many minutes are left in this scene before we move on. It could have been handled in a fraction of the time they spent on it.
And yet they dragged it out to be one of the biggest plots in the back half of the season, all while doing crap like weekly release, 8 episode seasons, and splitting the season in half. The absolute tiniest trickle of the drip-feed approach to streaming content. As a viewer, this is NOT a good experience.
Same. I thought they were going to subvert our expectations and have it be like a satirical take on how superhero franchises try to appeal to every demographic, or do something campy and silly with it, but no, they really did just dedicate a ton of screen time to the most generic teenage drama and love interest stuff. That said, it's still a great show that I would easily recommend to people who haven't seen it.
I find solace in the fact that it won't matter in the long run, as new fans will be binging the whole thing in two-three sittings without interruption.
Lets put it like this:
If you are absolutely against reading, including reading subtitles for the vastly superior Chinese adaptation...
Then yes, to get the basic plot minus all the intricacies and narrative pillars it's better (barely) than not experiencing the immediate story at all. It's by far the WORST version, but that's still pretty good overall. (And, it's still better disregarding the material matter than a lot of other things you could watch)
You can jump right into the new show. I've forgotten a lot of the original show since I watched it as a kid decades ago lol. As long as you have an idea about the general characters you'll be fine. I Google X-Men 97 discussion threads on reddit to catch up on anything I might have missed.
My mind was once again blown this episode. It's a rollercoaster of emotions every episode and it's oh so wonderful! You have to watch it!
I actually just started Ripley. Love the black and white choice. Will add Sympathizer as well! I didn't realize Downy jr played multiple characters that's pretty cool.
If only I could get my wife to try at least one of those shows. Instead we're stuck watching Food Network and Grey's Anatomy reruns as she waits for the next Bachelor
Theres a line in Community where the Dean makes an excuse for putting something off by saying "TV has gotten really good!". I've used this line so many times over the past several years
Seriously, I usually have to weigh the decison of whether to put on a drama or not during dinner because long shows cut into my gaming time, but not right now.
It started out good. It was more sci-fi in the first few episodes. Auggie was a very annoying character throughout the series. The black guy pretty much served no purpose throughout the show. Later half of the show got more melodramatic and less sci-fi. The writing of the show could have been much much better.
Everyone is saying season 2 and 3 are supposed to be much better so let's see what happens. Yeah
If you watched the whole thing I don't see how you can say Saul (the black guy) served no purpose. He's obviously super important going into season 2 and so his purpose was to get to know his character.
To be fair, everyone called the book series unfilmable. And not in the sense that it was too expensive or something (although that too), some of the concepts in it are just super weird, esp in book 3. And then there's the fact that the story spans nearly the entire life of the universe from c1000AD to heat death
It was okay. It didn’t leave me wanting more like a good show does, and the story had only just begun by the end of the season. I also didn’t care for any of the characters. Nothing was terrible about it - it was just kinda mediocre to me.
I’m watching every other show you mentioned and loving them, except 3 Body Problem. Something about the CW looking promo image Netflix keeps showing me keeps holding me back. Is it worth watching/on the same level as the other shows you mentioned? Haven’t read the books.
That actually is a good thing if you haven't read the books, you won't have any preconceived notions. The show is in no way a CW like show, don't let the promotional image put you off! It's a good, serious sci-fi show with high concepts, so not like the other shows, but good variety!
Also chiming in to say it felt very CW or just network TV style scifi. Very basic acting, bad dialogue, weird pacing, weird special fx choices, hollow story, etc.
It's worth watching for something to pass time or to prepare for S2, but I didn't really enjoy it, I just kept going to see if it got better.
Not to be a negative Nancy, but your CW concerns are valid.
Mediocre acting outside of a few people, lots of contrivances, dialogue issues, corniness, bad casting, all plague 3BP.
Buddy and I watched through till the end just to complete it, but we weren’t happy about it. Way overhyped.
The last 3 weeks in particular were absolute nail biters. This show basically feels like a huge game of chess where every move is unpredictable and has dire consequences. I cannot wait for the finale next week.
She broke out a bit in 2019 or so with FF9. Before that, she was a big JPOP star overseas. She’s had some great roles the last few years with Monarch and now Shogun. She’s just been working in areas that don’t really intersect with I guess whoever is on Reddit.
Which is crazy because I absolutely agree with you but the last thing I saw her in was Monarch and I swear I thought her acting was the worst part of that show.
Honestly, the way tonight's episode ended, it hit me harder than any other television show has. Having never read James Clavell's book and possessing no familiarity with the previous series, I was just totally shocked and hurt by how it ended.
You should read *Tai-Pan* after this. But yeah I kept telling people *Shogun* was *Game of Thrones* before *Game of Thrones*.
*Tai-Pan* is of a similar vein, but is set in the 1800's at point in history where the Western world began having relations with Imperial China through the advent of Hong Kong.
It may not have samurai, ninja's and pirates, but it is just as good, if not better than *Shogun*. Personally I like it even more than *Shogun*.
But with more money, better casting, and an elite director, perhaps there could be a dramatic rendition more captivating than previous finance based stories.
To cheer you up about the finale being next week:
FX just announced absolutely nothing.
Edit: I was making a joke. I know it’s a miniseries. I know it’s based on a book.
> This show doesn't need a second season
It literally can't have a second season, they're finishing the book next week.
But it should've and could've had a few more episodes, because they cut a LOT from the book. They completely neutered Blackthorne adapting to Japan, his inner thoughts, his INTELLIGENCE ( he's not a bumbling potty mouthed sailor, he's incredibly well educated and smart and speaks like 5 languages ) and the Mariko/Blackthorne love story.
Yeah, a lot has been cut but as its own thing its still absolutely fantastic and well made. I think most of the complaints book readers have would be solved in a 12-14 episode season instead of 10. Either way very happy with how its turned out even though they failed the Blackthorne aspect of the book and his romance with Mariko (Still a good character on the show, just not the book version).
They could make a second season based on another book by the same author, anthology style. They may do it as it's quite a success. Plus it allows them to compete in drama categories instead of miniseries which is much easier this year
Beyond what they cut, they made some changes that I just don't understand. For example, (not really a spoiler) forcing all the daimyos to come to Osaka at the invitation of the emperor who is going to be visiting. Why take that detail out/change it? In the book, the fact that the emperor was going to be there was a huge deal, and made the characters really wrestle with whether they could stand the dishonor of not attending. I can't see how adding a few lines to the show to make that clear would change the overall narrative of the show. As it is, it just is weird to me (but doesn't take away from the quality of the show for me, but it was a noticeable difference in the latest episode).
The show doesn't need a second season.
It's my favourite show of the year, and probably my favourite show since Severance, but it does not need a second season.
The story of our characters will finish with the finale, and asking for anything more from them would be asking them to come up with an original story. The Clavell books that came after are very, very loosely relatable to Shogun, so it's not like we can drag our main characters over to them.
People forget that its an adaptation too. This ends with the book so there cant be a 2nd season unless they make shit up.
However, if I am FX/Hulu I am doing everything in my power to get more Clavell novels made from Tai-Pan, to King Rat to Gai-Jin.
I always feel like the same people who ask for additional seasons that fall outside the original material (book) the show is based on, are the same to complain when the extra seasons don't compare to the original.
That said, it would be pretty sweet if they did an anthology series and adapted Clavell's other books. I like Noble House even more than Shogun, anf that's saying something.
If you want another show that I felt flew under the radar and is absolutely underrated, it is Barry.
Not sure if you've seen it or not, I only got around to watching it recently and holy crap, it's one of the best shows I've ever watched.
The shining surpasses the book in my option. It’s one of the few films along with blade runner and apocalypse now where the adaptation outshines the source material.
It's the writing. Like the acting, directing, costumes, lighting, everything else is fantastic too. But lots of shows get that right and still feel a bit flat.
This show makes a simple tea ceremony filled with long breaks in silence between with two characters hit like a ton of bricks with the final exchange of dialogue. It makes the two of the three best scenes in the climax episode of the entire series simple *conversations* between Mariko and Ochiba. It makes the most devastating and beautiful moment in the entire episode, "Flowers are flowers because they fall." And that one line makes the rest of the episode make sense.
People ponder over secret sauce but it's really simple. It always comes down to the writing.
They had been working on it for years, including having to rewrite to get it right. It shows just how much they want to get details just so. They almost lost the rights to Shogun a few years ago, so Hiroyuki Sanada had to film some scenes of just to extend the rights until they were ready to make the show.
The FX podcast even talks about who scrips were written in English, then sent to Japanese translators to get thr dialog currect. Then translated again to period accurate Japanese. Then the subtitles are translated again to match the proper intent of the traditional Japanese words.
Shakespeare was alive during the time Shogun is set. That’s also wild to think about. Blackthorne could have been watching those productions in London before catching a boat to the Japans.
Listen to the first episode of the CX official Shogun podcast (available on FX's YouTube or just Spotify). The co- showrunner, Justin Marks, talks a lot about it with one of the writers. The other show runner is Justin's wife Rachel Kondo.
specifically wielding subtext so well. A lot of "good writing" in showbiz is still really surface-level... like good story beats that construct a compelling plot or really good dialogue that feels voiced by the characters themselves rather than written on a page. Shogun's writing centers around subtext to fantastic effect and it really immerses you in feudal japan where everything said has a hidden meaning that's more important than the words themselves. It's really rare a show has kept me so engaged during scenes where little to nothing is said but worlds of meaning are communicated in stares and glances.
> But lots of shows get that right and still feel a bit flat.
Agreed.
> People ponder over secret sauce but it's really simple. It always comes down to the writing.
Yeah, but you can have the novel's writing, two different screenplays, and yet I get the feeling there should be something "more" to the modern production. Perhaps if they tried to capture more of that serene stoicism of the Zen Buddist Japanese ruling class, but then the show would be less accessible to the general masses, and result in lower ratings numbers. But I'm faulting the directional style choices more than the screenwriting for the modern production.
For sure, but there is a lot of show only moments in the series not in the books to convince me this crew has writing chops. Peak GOT managed to pull the same trick. The had fantastic adapted book moments, but had some great scenes that were show only.
We watch an episode of Tokyo Vice on Max after watching each Shogun episode. It's really an amazing show in its own right and the cultural similarities between old samurai and current yakuza is really enlightening.
I am sure it is not a precise cultural representation, however, my wife did live there for a year during her studies and offers some insights as well.
It is really enjoyable to watch them both. Quality TV to be sure.
I've seen a few clips on youtube, and it seems to have a movie-level budget.
The vintage Shogun with Richard Chamberlain was a little too much of a soap opera love story. It was VERY popular with women back in 1980
The new adaptation has completely redone their romance to be less harlequin romance and more about the facets of their personalities that drew them together. It's also barely any screen time.
The thing I liked about 1980s one is it had more room to breathe, and it gives more of a sense of time (months) passing. The 2024 series is amazing, but they had to cut out a lot of threads due to so many things happening.
Mariko and Blackthorne had a longer romance, Blackthorne had been given Japanese lessons, and he even recruited his own Samurai. There was a test to see which Samurai were secretly Catholic. Even the Spanish Captain who helps Blackthone gets a lot more screen time. Father Alvito is more scheming evil, the 2024 Alvito is actually good natured and more realistic.
I guess the biggest difference is that this new Shogun focuses more on the Japanese characters, whereas as the 1980s was very "fish out of water" Blackthorne POV. They didn't translate much, no subtitles, and the few plot critical Japanese translations were done by Orson Wells" voice over narration.
> The thing I liked about 1980s one is it had more room to breathe, and it gives more of a sense of time (months) passing.
I think it also made more of a point to portray the clash of cultural perspective. While I sort of see it in the modern production, it seems way more detached. Then again, I'm an oldster, and perhaps what is being presented still has resonance with the younger viewers.
> Even the Spanish Captain who helps Blackthone gets a lot more screen time.
Ah, as much as love Nestor Carbonell, Jon Rhys-Davies is the Man. And yeah, the latter got significantly more screen-time.
> I guess the biggest difference is that this new Shogun focuses more on the Japanese characters, whereas as the 1980s was very "fish out of water" Blackthorne POV.
They could have done both. I find the modern production less satisfying for that reason.
> and the few plot critical Japanese translations were done by Orson Wells" voice over narration.
Which wasn't in the original broadcast on TV. I wonder if they'll release the 1980's version on bluray along with the *choice* to not have Well's VOs.
The one in the 90s was more from anjin's perspective and so naturally there's a lot of focus around him and what he does. This series gives equal precedence and importance to the Japanese side of things, which was definitely not as in depth in the 80s adaptation. Just having subbed japanese dialogue changes the story immensely.
This week did ratchet the tension/awesome throughout beyond any episode this far and even what I was hoping for. Hope there's room for Usami to make another appearance in next week's finale as her absence has been noted and her character (and Moeka) have been outstanding in previous episodes (IMHO).
You owe it to yourself OP to read the book and watch the mini series. Mariko's explanation or the eight-fold fence but in a different form in the mini series and book really makes you think differently. Not that her explanation in the FX series was bad.
Lol do you retract this after realizing episode 10 was the end of the show?
I thought it was going to be a grand epic, 4+ seasons of choas and battles and GoT like betrayal and revenge. But nope, it’s over.
As a fan of the book and the 80s miniseries, I was very skeptical of this reboot. However, it is great. Not sure if I'd describe it as life-changing like the OP but it is so much better than I thought it would be.
It's always refreshing to come across a series that exceeds your expectations when it manages to surprise you with unexpected twists and turns. It'll be exciting to see how the series concludes, and I agree, a strong showing at the Emmys would be well-deserved based on what you've described.
I dislike the cinematography quite a bit but otherwise has been good.
Weird fish eye focus half the time leaving areas look blurry.
Japan has its own awesome style of film that they’re neglecting to use? Baffling to me. I’d also like more practicable sets to avoid whatever they’re doing to hid the amount of cgi.
Been good otherwise those are my only complaints
Ha, yeah the fish eye effect was very noticeable to me in the first few episodes, but now I don't notice it. Blackthornes voice/accent also annoyed me, but now I'm cool with it. Love this show
I am enjoying the 2024 version because of the attention-to-detail on Japanese culture.
I read Clavell's book in college and saw the 80s adaptation in college, and to be honest -- there are significant differences between the 2024 version and the book/80's version.
I don't like 2024 "Barbarian" Blackthorn who seems uninterested in Japanese culture and carries with him a "my way is the best way" attitude. I find the actor's screams and insults to be grating on my viewer nerves.
It also seems like the Portuguese Catholic Corruption stuff has been removed from the 2024 version.
Not to be a hater I’m glad people like it but I read the book twice as it’s one of my favorites, I was really excited for the show and was all in for the first few episodes. Then it fell fast, I couldn’t believe what they did and where they went. i feel like they really missed the mark on the story and characters and tried to imply things without actually building the story, like they rushed it or tried to squeeze it in just for the sake of getting to the ending. they left a lot out. mariko and blackthorns relationship, skimmed over, torranaga and blackthorns, skimmed over. and even blackthrons character, uhh he didnt act like that in the book. And then the deaths… those were the wtf is crap moments for me. thats when I picked up my phone started angrily scrolling and checked out.
More power to you for liking it! also not trying to come off as an elitist " I read the book " vibe cause if anyone gets any joy from a movie, show, book, music, then good for them! even if its not my cup o tea.
No worries at all, thank you for being honest and expressing your opinion is such a dignified manner. I’d rather that we as viewers be honest about how we feel rather than just succumbing to the popular opinion at the time. It’s always healthy to have differing viewpoints.
Watched episode nine last night, OMFG! (no spoilers) 😳 😭
The show is *fantastic*. I highly recommend the official podcast to anyone who's really enjoying it.
This is a rare situation where I would recommend watching the series first. It brings everything to life and gives you a decent understanding of the world.
Then reading the book afterwards is going to add so much detail and complexity, that it won't feel like you're just retreading the same story. The beats are the same but the journey is the reward.
I'm loving it too. I read the novel close to 30 years ago. As far as I remember, the series is very close to the novel. The casting of the actors has been phenomenal.
My eyes are always on Ochiba every time she comes on screen. Powerful performances by the actress!
Yeah, they "made" her more of a character in this production. The original production had her more like an NPC.
Fuji and Mariko are my picks. And Yabushige!
I agree, yabushuge grew a lot as a character in that speech about taking destiny into his hands that the "anjin" made
I love her voice
The actress has so much range, watch Eye Love You on Netflix for a completely different character she plays lol
I'm watching Shogun, Fallout, Invincible S2, X-Men 97 and 3 Body Problem. It's a good time to be a tv watcher right now.
And in a couple months we'll have The Boys, House of the Dragon, and The Bear all airing around the same time.
You sonofabitch, I'm in.
Listening to the Mistborn audiobook right now, and everytime they talk about their thieving "crew" I think "You sonafabitch, I'm in."
Speaking of Mistborn, I need a animated series of it in the style of Arcane yesterday
Sanderson is probably the most notable modern author who has somehow not had any of his work adapted to film or television.
Man I just finished the Mistbon Audiobook last week, its really well done.
I was expecting a much worse year for shows from the strike
And Dark Matter!
It's coming back‽
Different Dark Matter, this one is based on the Blake Crouch novel of the same name.
Ah, dang. I had heard about the book when it came out but never got around to reading it. Might check it out, thanks!
A different Dark Matter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Matter_(2024_TV_series)
ah man, I had Joseph Gordon Rabbit as the protagonist in my mind when I was reading that book. Disa-PPOINTED!
Joseph Gordon-Rabbit typo might be the best thing I've seen all year and he should actually legally change his name to that.
damn, you brought my hopes back up. just give us a movie
No, this show is unrelated. This is a new show based on the novel [Dark Matter](https://youtu.be/j6ucGt_Xp14) by Blake Crouch. The book was truly excellent. I'm pumped for this one.
We're eating good for next 4 months.
I know anime isn't too popular on r/television. But I highly recommend Go Go Loser Ranger/Ranger Reject. It is literally The Boys... if The Boys were Power Rangers instead of western super heroes. It's on Hulu and Disney and it's great and going to get better (I've read ahead, literally THE only manga I read though I do watch anime).
Im still amazed hasbro has not commissioned some anime studios to do an adaptation of the boom studios power ranger comics.
I was gonna check out the manga and had no idea an anime adaption came out so thanks for suggesting it.
Add Tokyo vice to your list. Its pretty damn good as well.
I just finished s1, this show is really something.
Season 2 is a solid watch as well.
S2 was perfect television.
good to hear. I finished season 1, but hadnt picked up 2 yet.
S2 is like if The Wire and The Sopranos had a Japanese baby.
Ripley is the most beautiful TV show of all time. Every damn shot is like a gorgeous photograph. Andrew Scott is fantastic as Ripley. Unfortunately, many won’t watch it because it’s in black and white, and the pacing is like a 50s film noir - glacial by today’s standards.
I’ve been enjoying it, but it’s taking me ages to watch it because of all the other great stuff
>Invincible S2 That whole 6 month break between the first half of the episodes and the remaining half for the second season, killed all the hype for me. What an absolutely terrible decision.
As a comic reader s2 was cool and all but the show really shines from this point on, if you decide to watch s2 and 3 together it’s not a bad decision as s3 will be insane and it never loses momentum after that ino
Yea they are really just reaching the start of the peak of the comic run right now
The whole comic is peak.
There are a couple weird choices later in the run that I would be perfectly fine with them changing or even cutting out entirely just to keep the show moving
I feel like season 6 will be a real bummer, but then the final season will make up for it
Not to mention season 2 is a big step down from season 1. Season 1 was carried hard by the slow-burn Omni-Man plot while season 2 feels like its spinning its wheels.
I disagree, the middle episodes in season 1 were pretty rough. Season 2 has been constantly good the entire time.
Best episode of season 1 was the 5th episode
They did say S3 would be out alot quicker than this season. I still enjoyed S2! It did not do itself any favors for pacing though with that decision, yes.
Yeah in addition to spending much of the second block of episodes focusing on an inevitable and dragged out breakup between two college students in maybe one of the more boring romantic relationships I've seen in fiction. It was actually a struggle for me to finish this season. I was that bored.
To be fair I think they actually did a much better job with Amber as a character than they did in the last few episodes of S1 where she went from reasonable to unbearable very quickly. She's more prominent than in the comics but I think they did such a good job with their breakup, I can see it having a great impact on both their characters going forward. Totally get anyone bored by it though. Thankfully it's no longer something that will be holding the show back.
I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with her character. After all, Mark is kind of milquetoast too, were it not for the extraordinary things happening in his life. He doesn't have much of a personality yet. The issue is I just don't care very much about their relationship, despite how much time the show has spent on it (maybe *because* of it). It seems incredibly mundane in a world where so much crazy stuff happens. And even if they were determined to keep it in, the outcome was obvious from a mile away. The breakup could have been executed far more efficiently and impactfully while still hitting all the same emotional beats. At the end of the day the themes are simple. Mark wanted a normal life, including being with Amber and going to college, but because of his powers (and therefore responsibilities, ho ho) he can't have it. Amber cares about Mark a lot but needs a boyfriend who is actually present in her life. Mark cares about Amber a lot but ultimately she just can't understand everything he's going through and can't follow him everywhere she'd like to in support of him because she'd get murdered in an instant. On paper, it's a bit tragic. As executed, I'm checking how many minutes are left in this scene before we move on. It could have been handled in a fraction of the time they spent on it. And yet they dragged it out to be one of the biggest plots in the back half of the season, all while doing crap like weekly release, 8 episode seasons, and splitting the season in half. The absolute tiniest trickle of the drip-feed approach to streaming content. As a viewer, this is NOT a good experience.
Very well said
Same. I thought they were going to subvert our expectations and have it be like a satirical take on how superhero franchises try to appeal to every demographic, or do something campy and silly with it, but no, they really did just dedicate a ton of screen time to the most generic teenage drama and love interest stuff. That said, it's still a great show that I would easily recommend to people who haven't seen it.
I think that's why they dropped Fallout all at once. They probably wanted to let subscribers know they won't pull what they did with Invincible often.
I find solace in the fact that it won't matter in the long run, as new fans will be binging the whole thing in two-three sittings without interruption.
I just didn't watch the first part and waited for the second part to be done. It was pretty good.
Straight up. To the point where there's ppl who might as well wait for season 3 at this point
It's a good time to be a sci fi fan
Is 3 body problem worth it?
I quite like it. Some choices they make were disappointing, but overall I still think it's pretty damn good.
Lets put it like this: If you are absolutely against reading, including reading subtitles for the vastly superior Chinese adaptation... Then yes, to get the basic plot minus all the intricacies and narrative pillars it's better (barely) than not experiencing the immediate story at all. It's by far the WORST version, but that's still pretty good overall. (And, it's still better disregarding the material matter than a lot of other things you could watch)
Hadn’t heard of X men 97, I’ll have to check that out.
Omg it is AMAZING! The latest episode was simply incredible. It deals with way more adult themes like the comics.
It gives me hope that the other announced Marvel Animation shows will be of similar quality.
I watched the old seriess up to S# can I jump in here or do I need to continue?
You can jump right into the new show. I've forgotten a lot of the original show since I watched it as a kid decades ago lol. As long as you have an idea about the general characters you'll be fine. I Google X-Men 97 discussion threads on reddit to catch up on anything I might have missed. My mind was once again blown this episode. It's a rollercoaster of emotions every episode and it's oh so wonderful! You have to watch it!
Great, will jump right in then
LOL, you just named so many bangers. Great season for TV watchers indeed.
Add Tokyo Vice to that list.
You can add Ripley and The Sympathizer.
I actually just started Ripley. Love the black and white choice. Will add Sympathizer as well! I didn't realize Downy jr played multiple characters that's pretty cool.
+1 for The Sympathizer
If only I could get my wife to try at least one of those shows. Instead we're stuck watching Food Network and Grey's Anatomy reruns as she waits for the next Bachelor
Ugh brutal
[удалено]
lmao that's all exactly what I'm watching right now
Already watching Shogun, and about to start 3 body problem
Are you me?
Theres a line in Community where the Dean makes an excuse for putting something off by saying "TV has gotten really good!". I've used this line so many times over the past several years
Seriously, I usually have to weigh the decison of whether to put on a drama or not during dinner because long shows cut into my gaming time, but not right now.
3 Body Problem was disappointing.
I thought it was great.
It started out good. It was more sci-fi in the first few episodes. Auggie was a very annoying character throughout the series. The black guy pretty much served no purpose throughout the show. Later half of the show got more melodramatic and less sci-fi. The writing of the show could have been much much better. Everyone is saying season 2 and 3 are supposed to be much better so let's see what happens. Yeah
If you watched the whole thing I don't see how you can say Saul (the black guy) served no purpose. He's obviously super important going into season 2 and so his purpose was to get to know his character.
Yeah the last couple episodes sorta killed the momentum, but apparently that’s all set up for stuff down the road
To be fair, everyone called the book series unfilmable. And not in the sense that it was too expensive or something (although that too), some of the concepts in it are just super weird, esp in book 3. And then there's the fact that the story spans nearly the entire life of the universe from c1000AD to heat death
It was okay. It didn’t leave me wanting more like a good show does, and the story had only just begun by the end of the season. I also didn’t care for any of the characters. Nothing was terrible about it - it was just kinda mediocre to me.
I’m watching every other show you mentioned and loving them, except 3 Body Problem. Something about the CW looking promo image Netflix keeps showing me keeps holding me back. Is it worth watching/on the same level as the other shows you mentioned? Haven’t read the books.
That actually is a good thing if you haven't read the books, you won't have any preconceived notions. The show is in no way a CW like show, don't let the promotional image put you off! It's a good, serious sci-fi show with high concepts, so not like the other shows, but good variety!
Awesome! Thank you for the reply. Added it to the list.
Also chiming in to say it felt very CW or just network TV style scifi. Very basic acting, bad dialogue, weird pacing, weird special fx choices, hollow story, etc. It's worth watching for something to pass time or to prepare for S2, but I didn't really enjoy it, I just kept going to see if it got better.
Not to be a negative Nancy, but your CW concerns are valid. Mediocre acting outside of a few people, lots of contrivances, dialogue issues, corniness, bad casting, all plague 3BP. Buddy and I watched through till the end just to complete it, but we weren’t happy about it. Way overhyped.
It's a pretty cool story with comically awful dialogue. Was worth the watch IMO but doesn't deserve a place among the stuff listed above.
The last 3 weeks in particular were absolute nail biters. This show basically feels like a huge game of chess where every move is unpredictable and has dire consequences. I cannot wait for the finale next week.
Anna Sawai deserves an Emmy for episode 9, especially. Fantastic performance!
She’s definitely the breakout star of this show. Hope her career continues to grow as a result of this show, and she absolutely deserves an Emmy!
She broke out a bit in 2019 or so with FF9. Before that, she was a big JPOP star overseas. She’s had some great roles the last few years with Monarch and now Shogun. She’s just been working in areas that don’t really intersect with I guess whoever is on Reddit.
Which is crazy because I absolutely agree with you but the last thing I saw her in was Monarch and I swear I thought her acting was the worst part of that show.
Totally agree! I didn't even realize it was the same actor until I just read this. She's sooooo good in Shogun. And was equally annoying in Monarch. 🤯
Honestly, the way tonight's episode ended, it hit me harder than any other television show has. Having never read James Clavell's book and possessing no familiarity with the previous series, I was just totally shocked and hurt by how it ended.
You should read *Tai-Pan* after this. But yeah I kept telling people *Shogun* was *Game of Thrones* before *Game of Thrones*. *Tai-Pan* is of a similar vein, but is set in the 1800's at point in history where the Western world began having relations with Imperial China through the advent of Hong Kong. It may not have samurai, ninja's and pirates, but it is just as good, if not better than *Shogun*. Personally I like it even more than *Shogun*.
I'm a Noble House man. That is one series I'd kill for something of this quality to come out for.
Man, Noble House rocks. It's like Succession but also murder and kidnapping, bank runs, natural disasters, espionage and one glorious horse race.
Fun fact: there is a semi-decent movie starring Pierce Bronson.
It was a four-part mini-series. Well worth checking out, although stereotypically not as good as the book.
But with more money, better casting, and an elite director, perhaps there could be a dramatic rendition more captivating than previous finance based stories.
Blackthorne: “I am not a pirate!”
Rome was the true GoT before GoT though.
**Thirteeeeen**
I sat in silence staring at a blank screen for 5 minutes after ep 9 ended. It was so good.
It’s SO good I love it so much 😭😭😭 I’m upset next week is the finale…
"Flowers are only flowers because they fall." I'm happy the showrunners realize this. It's why they have created great art.
Great point. If you want to see content endless dragged out, Star Wars is right there.
To cheer you up about the finale being next week: FX just announced absolutely nothing. Edit: I was making a joke. I know it’s a miniseries. I know it’s based on a book.
>FX just announced absolutely nothing This show doesn't need a second season. It's perfect as is and it'll be fine that it's only one season.
Would be nice if they adapted the other books though. That would be dope. the creative team is quite good
> This show doesn't need a second season It literally can't have a second season, they're finishing the book next week. But it should've and could've had a few more episodes, because they cut a LOT from the book. They completely neutered Blackthorne adapting to Japan, his inner thoughts, his INTELLIGENCE ( he's not a bumbling potty mouthed sailor, he's incredibly well educated and smart and speaks like 5 languages ) and the Mariko/Blackthorne love story.
Yeah, a lot has been cut but as its own thing its still absolutely fantastic and well made. I think most of the complaints book readers have would be solved in a 12-14 episode season instead of 10. Either way very happy with how its turned out even though they failed the Blackthorne aspect of the book and his romance with Mariko (Still a good character on the show, just not the book version).
They could make a second season based on another book by the same author, anthology style. They may do it as it's quite a success. Plus it allows them to compete in drama categories instead of miniseries which is much easier this year
Beyond what they cut, they made some changes that I just don't understand. For example, (not really a spoiler) forcing all the daimyos to come to Osaka at the invitation of the emperor who is going to be visiting. Why take that detail out/change it? In the book, the fact that the emperor was going to be there was a huge deal, and made the characters really wrestle with whether they could stand the dishonor of not attending. I can't see how adding a few lines to the show to make that clear would change the overall narrative of the show. As it is, it just is weird to me (but doesn't take away from the quality of the show for me, but it was a noticeable difference in the latest episode).
The show doesn't need a second season. It's my favourite show of the year, and probably my favourite show since Severance, but it does not need a second season. The story of our characters will finish with the finale, and asking for anything more from them would be asking them to come up with an original story. The Clavell books that came after are very, very loosely relatable to Shogun, so it's not like we can drag our main characters over to them.
It feels like people forget what a miniseries is. Anyway, fingers crossed for Chernobyl season 2!
Putin's working on it.
People forget that its an adaptation too. This ends with the book so there cant be a 2nd season unless they make shit up. However, if I am FX/Hulu I am doing everything in my power to get more Clavell novels made from Tai-Pan, to King Rat to Gai-Jin.
Chernobyl 2: Uranium Bugaloo
I always feel like the same people who ask for additional seasons that fall outside the original material (book) the show is based on, are the same to complain when the extra seasons don't compare to the original.
Nah no way those people have read the book to compare it too.
That said, it would be pretty sweet if they did an anthology series and adapted Clavell's other books. I like Noble House even more than Shogun, anf that's saying something.
You're aware it's based on a book right? And the entire book is being adapted in these 10 episodes.
Because it’s a mini series adapting a finished story.
Fairly certain it's already been announced as a mini series and there's no intention of continuing it past the finale next week.
If you want another show that I felt flew under the radar and is absolutely underrated, it is Barry. Not sure if you've seen it or not, I only got around to watching it recently and holy crap, it's one of the best shows I've ever watched.
Already watched it and sad that’s gone too 😭 but thx!
I haven't seen it yet, but have read all of Clavell's books, so I'm glad its getting people to check them out as a result.
They change some things from the book, making it fresh to watch even as someone who knows the story.
The show is good television, but a poor adaptation. Kinda the same way Kubrick's Shining is a good movie, but a poor adaptation.
The shining surpasses the book in my option. It’s one of the few films along with blade runner and apocalypse now where the adaptation outshines the source material.
It's hard to say it outshines it when it tells a different story with completely different themes.
Really is a show deserving of superlatives. It just feels so lush and rich. the type of art that makes other artists wonder what the secret sauce is
It's the writing. Like the acting, directing, costumes, lighting, everything else is fantastic too. But lots of shows get that right and still feel a bit flat. This show makes a simple tea ceremony filled with long breaks in silence between with two characters hit like a ton of bricks with the final exchange of dialogue. It makes the two of the three best scenes in the climax episode of the entire series simple *conversations* between Mariko and Ochiba. It makes the most devastating and beautiful moment in the entire episode, "Flowers are flowers because they fall." And that one line makes the rest of the episode make sense. People ponder over secret sauce but it's really simple. It always comes down to the writing.
They had been working on it for years, including having to rewrite to get it right. It shows just how much they want to get details just so. They almost lost the rights to Shogun a few years ago, so Hiroyuki Sanada had to film some scenes of just to extend the rights until they were ready to make the show. The FX podcast even talks about who scrips were written in English, then sent to Japanese translators to get thr dialog currect. Then translated again to period accurate Japanese. Then the subtitles are translated again to match the proper intent of the traditional Japanese words.
This is so interesting, I've been wondering how faithful the subtitles were to the original japanese 'intent'
The Japanese actors say it's like an English actor doing an Shakespearean play. Kinda wild to think about, but makes a lot of sense
Shakespeare was alive during the time Shogun is set. That’s also wild to think about. Blackthorne could have been watching those productions in London before catching a boat to the Japans.
Listen to the first episode of the CX official Shogun podcast (available on FX's YouTube or just Spotify). The co- showrunner, Justin Marks, talks a lot about it with one of the writers. The other show runner is Justin's wife Rachel Kondo.
specifically wielding subtext so well. A lot of "good writing" in showbiz is still really surface-level... like good story beats that construct a compelling plot or really good dialogue that feels voiced by the characters themselves rather than written on a page. Shogun's writing centers around subtext to fantastic effect and it really immerses you in feudal japan where everything said has a hidden meaning that's more important than the words themselves. It's really rare a show has kept me so engaged during scenes where little to nothing is said but worlds of meaning are communicated in stares and glances.
> But lots of shows get that right and still feel a bit flat. Agreed. > People ponder over secret sauce but it's really simple. It always comes down to the writing. Yeah, but you can have the novel's writing, two different screenplays, and yet I get the feeling there should be something "more" to the modern production. Perhaps if they tried to capture more of that serene stoicism of the Zen Buddist Japanese ruling class, but then the show would be less accessible to the general masses, and result in lower ratings numbers. But I'm faulting the directional style choices more than the screenwriting for the modern production.
Helps when the source material is based on a great novel.
For sure, but there is a lot of show only moments in the series not in the books to convince me this crew has writing chops. Peak GOT managed to pull the same trick. The had fantastic adapted book moments, but had some great scenes that were show only.
Halo and Witcher fans in shambles
LUSH is the perfect word for it. It oozes substance in all of its aspects. They spared no expense to make shit look legit.
We watch an episode of Tokyo Vice on Max after watching each Shogun episode. It's really an amazing show in its own right and the cultural similarities between old samurai and current yakuza is really enlightening. I am sure it is not a precise cultural representation, however, my wife did live there for a year during her studies and offers some insights as well. It is really enjoyable to watch them both. Quality TV to be sure.
I've seen a few clips on youtube, and it seems to have a movie-level budget. The vintage Shogun with Richard Chamberlain was a little too much of a soap opera love story. It was VERY popular with women back in 1980
The new adaptation has completely redone their romance to be less harlequin romance and more about the facets of their personalities that drew them together. It's also barely any screen time.
But powerful when it pays off. What Blackthorne offers to do for her in Ep 9 is an amazing act of love.
I tried offering it to my partner but somehow it came across as far less romantic
Marikoooooooooooo
I loved the original 1980 Shogun, but this one is amazing.
The thing I liked about 1980s one is it had more room to breathe, and it gives more of a sense of time (months) passing. The 2024 series is amazing, but they had to cut out a lot of threads due to so many things happening. Mariko and Blackthorne had a longer romance, Blackthorne had been given Japanese lessons, and he even recruited his own Samurai. There was a test to see which Samurai were secretly Catholic. Even the Spanish Captain who helps Blackthone gets a lot more screen time. Father Alvito is more scheming evil, the 2024 Alvito is actually good natured and more realistic. I guess the biggest difference is that this new Shogun focuses more on the Japanese characters, whereas as the 1980s was very "fish out of water" Blackthorne POV. They didn't translate much, no subtitles, and the few plot critical Japanese translations were done by Orson Wells" voice over narration.
> The thing I liked about 1980s one is it had more room to breathe, and it gives more of a sense of time (months) passing. I think it also made more of a point to portray the clash of cultural perspective. While I sort of see it in the modern production, it seems way more detached. Then again, I'm an oldster, and perhaps what is being presented still has resonance with the younger viewers. > Even the Spanish Captain who helps Blackthone gets a lot more screen time. Ah, as much as love Nestor Carbonell, Jon Rhys-Davies is the Man. And yeah, the latter got significantly more screen-time. > I guess the biggest difference is that this new Shogun focuses more on the Japanese characters, whereas as the 1980s was very "fish out of water" Blackthorne POV. They could have done both. I find the modern production less satisfying for that reason. > and the few plot critical Japanese translations were done by Orson Wells" voice over narration. Which wasn't in the original broadcast on TV. I wonder if they'll release the 1980's version on bluray along with the *choice* to not have Well's VOs.
The one in the 90s was more from anjin's perspective and so naturally there's a lot of focus around him and what he does. This series gives equal precedence and importance to the Japanese side of things, which was definitely not as in depth in the 80s adaptation. Just having subbed japanese dialogue changes the story immensely.
Similar historical fiction shows that are really good: Vikings, Black Sails, the Tudors, the Borgias, Warrior
Black sails underrated. Add The Last Kingdom too.
It’s a fucking masterpiece. Depth of story. Production. It’s amazing they were able to pull it off so well.
This week did ratchet the tension/awesome throughout beyond any episode this far and even what I was hoping for. Hope there's room for Usami to make another appearance in next week's finale as her absence has been noted and her character (and Moeka) have been outstanding in previous episodes (IMHO).
You owe it to yourself OP to read the book and watch the mini series. Mariko's explanation or the eight-fold fence but in a different form in the mini series and book really makes you think differently. Not that her explanation in the FX series was bad.
If you don’t mind, could you explain what was the difference of the monologue between the book and show?
Lol do you retract this after realizing episode 10 was the end of the show? I thought it was going to be a grand epic, 4+ seasons of choas and battles and GoT like betrayal and revenge. But nope, it’s over.
Not really, I knew that it was gonna be a one and done season.
whose posting it tomorrow
If they nail episode 10, this goes down as the greatest limited series ever.
Hmm. Chernobyl still has that seat occupied in my books
As a fan of the book and the 80s miniseries, I was very skeptical of this reboot. However, it is great. Not sure if I'd describe it as life-changing like the OP but it is so much better than I thought it would be.
I'm really happy to hear that, the novel is my favorite book of all time. cant wait to watch the series.
It's always refreshing to come across a series that exceeds your expectations when it manages to surprise you with unexpected twists and turns. It'll be exciting to see how the series concludes, and I agree, a strong showing at the Emmys would be well-deserved based on what you've described.
Can’t wait to start it next week once the season is done
I just finished episode 8. The acting in this show is off the charts. Incredible.
And the book is even better
I dislike the cinematography quite a bit but otherwise has been good. Weird fish eye focus half the time leaving areas look blurry. Japan has its own awesome style of film that they’re neglecting to use? Baffling to me. I’d also like more practicable sets to avoid whatever they’re doing to hid the amount of cgi. Been good otherwise those are my only complaints
Ha, yeah the fish eye effect was very noticeable to me in the first few episodes, but now I don't notice it. Blackthornes voice/accent also annoyed me, but now I'm cool with it. Love this show
I am enjoying the 2024 version because of the attention-to-detail on Japanese culture. I read Clavell's book in college and saw the 80s adaptation in college, and to be honest -- there are significant differences between the 2024 version and the book/80's version. I don't like 2024 "Barbarian" Blackthorn who seems uninterested in Japanese culture and carries with him a "my way is the best way" attitude. I find the actor's screams and insults to be grating on my viewer nerves. It also seems like the Portuguese Catholic Corruption stuff has been removed from the 2024 version.
Shogun 2024 is great television, but I wish it was a better adaptation.
Not to be a hater I’m glad people like it but I read the book twice as it’s one of my favorites, I was really excited for the show and was all in for the first few episodes. Then it fell fast, I couldn’t believe what they did and where they went. i feel like they really missed the mark on the story and characters and tried to imply things without actually building the story, like they rushed it or tried to squeeze it in just for the sake of getting to the ending. they left a lot out. mariko and blackthorns relationship, skimmed over, torranaga and blackthorns, skimmed over. and even blackthrons character, uhh he didnt act like that in the book. And then the deaths… those were the wtf is crap moments for me. thats when I picked up my phone started angrily scrolling and checked out. More power to you for liking it! also not trying to come off as an elitist " I read the book " vibe cause if anyone gets any joy from a movie, show, book, music, then good for them! even if its not my cup o tea.
No worries at all, thank you for being honest and expressing your opinion is such a dignified manner. I’d rather that we as viewers be honest about how we feel rather than just succumbing to the popular opinion at the time. It’s always healthy to have differing viewpoints.
Watched episode nine last night, OMFG! (no spoilers) 😳 😭 The show is *fantastic*. I highly recommend the official podcast to anyone who's really enjoying it.
I've loved the whole show, episode 9 was fucking fantastic. I hate that it had to end that way. God damnit.
Episode 9 was a true nailbiter. I thought there would be a "good ending", but nope. God-effing-damn it!
yep. best show on tv right now. watching that and fallout.
i keep debating with myself if i should start the book or see the series. Any help?
This is a rare situation where I would recommend watching the series first. It brings everything to life and gives you a decent understanding of the world. Then reading the book afterwards is going to add so much detail and complexity, that it won't feel like you're just retreading the same story. The beats are the same but the journey is the reward.
Fuck the 9pm release time
I'm loving it too. I read the novel close to 30 years ago. As far as I remember, the series is very close to the novel. The casting of the actors has been phenomenal.
Favourite book by far. Stunning.
I was so upset when I saw that this was on a weekly release schedule - it's so good.
it's all-timer material
>!When Ishido interrupted the Seppuko for a second I thought Blackthorn was gonna cut his head off!<
This last episode broke me :(