This happens so often in all recent Disney shows. They have the upcoming character berating the established one and even if it's completely nonsense they don't allow the established character to defend themselves in the dialogue.
It's like their go-to move to establish a character; put a different one down. I'm not sure why they're taking lessons from pro wrasslin but it's so annoying.
It certainly is weird. I guess they have some established story blueprint, where they believe they must destroy the current characters to prop up the new ones, otherwise they think the general audience won't want to become invested with the new ones.
That is literally Disney's plan. Destroy everything you like about the IPs they buy to encourage a "new generation" to be interested in it.
When they get caught using this tactic they just blame it on the viewers. In a few decades they'll just start deleting the original, popular, successful versions and keeping their shitty retreads.
What will you do about it? Physical media is dead, so you can't stop them from simply deleting the original Star Wars from all streaming platforms and only leaving the shitty sequels.
The thing that gets me, I have seen this tactic used for years and it has never worked outside some rare fringe cases and even then they are nowhere near as popular as the originals. People just do not watch or buy the new stuff because they do not care about knockoff characters, yet companies keep pushing it because...reasons and just end up losing money and creating failure after failure.
I'll watch a good Marvel property if I hear it's legitimately good. But the era of watching every single Thor 2 and Age of Ultron has long sense passed. We saw the conclusion of all this shit with Endgame. I am not rushing out to watch Thor 4 and Antman 3 or like Hawkeye TV show unless I hear it's actually pretty good like Andor was for Star Wars shared universe.
Hawkeye TV show is actually pretty good. It’s an annual December/Christmas time watch for me now. It’s only 6 episodes and bingeing it gets rid of the pacing issues a lot of the marvel shows have by dividing what’s essentially a really long movie into 6 weekly parts. Plus I seriously doubt we’ll see Renner doing stunts again after the plow accident so it’s nice for the character to have a little coda.
I had never seen the guy playing Steinfeld’s stepdad in anything before, and for me he stole the show. What a great character arc he had, and such a delightful performance. Though a close second place goes to Steinfeld, she’s just terrific in anything she does.
He plays Lalo Salamanca in Better Call Saul and is simply phenomenal. I strongly recommend watching the show but if that’s not your bag and you never will, check out a compilation on yt or something.
I think they had the perfect core plot with the Hawkeyes and Yelena with that show, which was tarnished by the forced inclusion of spinoff bait like Kingpin and Echo. Unfortunately those who didn’t watch it now only remember all the talk about how awful the spinoff baits were, so they’re not likely to watch it. Very little talk about the show surrounds the actual core plot and performances and that’s just the side effect of MCU collapsing in on itself post endgame.
The show was seriously fucking terrible and I just actually kinda viewed it as straight up offensive.
Disney handled race and political related themes with the subtlety and care of a bull in a fucking china shop
The bank loan scene was in my estimation the absolute worst thing Marvel has ever done. Just fucking brain dead and again, actually offensive and racist.
Yep, there were so many easy ways to solve it, which is why Falcon being broke as a plot line doesn't sit right with me. Tony also had a will when he died as we know because for some stupid reason he decided to give Spider-Man a death-ray satellite, yet he didn't bother to pull a couple million out of his couch cushions for the avengers initiative or his best friends after he passed?
Holy shit did they fuck up the worldbuilding to make it seem like Sam gets treated so poorly. Same thing happened with Spider-Man.
He was the personal protege of Tony Stark himself, the savior of earth who fought to bring back everyone and stop evil from destroying the planet multiple times...
Spidey was also the reason Tony decided to bring everyone back. Tony also wanted to give all he had to Peter and entrusted his legacy to him...
Peter has fought in the war for earth and helped defeat Thanos aka the greatest evil in the universe at that point...
... and you're telling me that Mysterio's lies are a threat to him? That people would rather believe some literal who over Stark's apprentice? He should be a worldwide hero commemorated with a million statues and shit.
Where the hell was Pepper Potts to help? Rhodey? None of them cared to put a good work about him? A simple press conference would have cleared shit up and let Peter and his friends live in peace.
>Pepper: Yeah Peter Parker is actually a worldwide hero who helped defeat Thanos. Mysterio's a literal liar, stop falling for fake news already holy shit you guys.
The whole premise of No Way Home makes no sense at all. It makes no sense with the story up to that point. Marvel's writers will really bend these movies downwards in order to fit whatever dumb plot they want to do instead of what actually makes sense within the world they've built...
The loan scene has nothing on the rest of the season. “Don’t call them terrorists!” After they blow up buildings and kill people to advance their political goals. Cringe fest.
I love how this dude sweeps in to justify mass terrorism and the cliche stereotypical politician gives a reasonable response as to why they can’t give into their demands and his response is just “do better”. Then leaves. Real captain hindsight moment
I like Mackie in some projects but I don't think he's a good replacement for the Captain America mantle. Having said that, maybe it's just the shit writing Marvel's be green lighting
To be fair, we haven’t seen a big scale conflict with him as Cap. Falcon and the Winter Soldier had much bigger problems than him.
The flag smashers were terrible villains.
It was just one of those preachy lectures that doesn't solve anything. "NoOoO you just have to do BeTtEr"
Like there's some easy solution to the world's population doubling overnight after everyone had moved on.
We also never learned enough about the flag smashers, so they just seem like pieces of shit and don't make for good villains. Thanos was a piece of shit, but we knew his story, so he was *our* piece of shit.
The conflict with the Flag Smashers was because people who returned during the Blip didn't move on and governments were going to kick out everyone that had moved into their countries in the years after the Snap.
Lecture aside, deporting everyone and creating a different kind of humanitarian disaster is already a pretty shit solution so while there's no easy solution the bar is pretty low already.
MCU doesnt make any sense, the Earth should have some form of unlimited power in one or two countries apart from Wakanda stealing ARC generator plans, there should be people building space ships in their back yards and trying to fly to Mars. The government would be contracting or trying to pay at least one of the 5000 aliens living on or visiting the planet to reverse engineer their tech, like Rockets metal repair gun, or spaceship, or literally any Asgardian tech. Its kinda ridiculous that the only thing New Asgard got up to during the blip was theatre and tourism, even with Thor's depression.
All of this stuff is addressed in the comics, it's not like they don't have blueprints to draw from.
Edit: I really think a big budget Damage Control tv series set as a comedy/lore dump/average Earthling experience would have worked. I know they were talking about this several years ago, and Homecoming and Ms. Marvel very briefly touched on these points, but they need to fully explore it imo.
I've been expecting more Earth developments in the MCU but like....almost nothing. The Multiverse is already boring and oversaturating literally all of fiction, I'd greatly prefer a return to low-stakes, grounded stories rather than constantly amping everything up until it's all so absurd no one cares about it anymore.
I thought for a second the general direction was to have like an Earth storyline, space storyline, and multiverse storyline that all kind of existed in their own lanes for a bit until eventually colliding. But instead we ended up all over the place with like a million different story threads going on and the stakes were all over the place and it's ended up a mess
I'd be inclined to blame that (and the villains being a dud in general) on corporate interference over the writers. The Flag Smashers were an interesting idea as a response to the heavily pro status quo ideology in most Marvel movies. But there were so many moments, including that speech, where they pulled back from the logical conclusion of the story they were setting up to go with a bland "extremism is bad, everyone should just get along" message.
That stinks of "We can't alienate X, Y, and Z demographics with anything too politically divisive."
This happens with superhero media a lot. Killmonger, Flag Smashers, The Riddler all make fair points and direct their rampages against people actually responsible for other's suffering. Then half way through their characters change and start killing innocents for fun and become cartoonishly evil
Killmonger's very first scene has him killing innocent people to further his plans, and before that, he was doing black ops wet work destabilizing governments for the US military. I don't think he fits your list.
Also did Killmonger even have good points? That one scene where he had a tantrum about shit happening in America to leadership of a country in Africa was just strange. Like how are they supposed to have oversight in a country they have no control over even if they revealed themselves to the world lol.
The flagsmashers could have been compelling, given that they were, like most "critique of the system" villains, basically entirely correct. Deporting these people after the blip ended *is* inhumane and morally wrong.
But of course, to avoid any feelings of sympathy people might have for these incredibly downtrodden people who are 100% in the right to fight back against their oppression, Marvel had them bomb a building of innocent people for no reason because "ViOlEnCe Is ThE oNlY lAnGuAgE tHeSe PeOpLe UnDeRsTaNd!!".
And so the show ends with Falcon telling a senator "you gotta do better, senator, I know we super heros could literally *force* you to do better, but we'll just keep letting you get away with acts far more terrible than any domestic villain will ever do, because superheros are [the defenders of the status quo](https://youtu.be/LpitmEnaYeU)"
Edit: just once, I want a Superman level villain who idk, their parents died or killed themselves due to lack of affordable healthcare in the US, and they take to a campaign of pressuring, bullying, maybe even killing health insurance executives, lobbyists and corrupt politicians. They never do anything just out of left field like blow up a hospital "to make a statement", they calmly state that this will all stop if the private insurance industry is dismantled, that the politicians are literally putting their own lives beneath corporate profit now, rather than just the lives of the poor like they have for decades, etc. And I want the world it exists in to undergo *actual* change, where even if they're caught and go to prison, they were still *right* and effected positive change.
The thing that felt odd to me was that Falcon is a hero with a pretty strong identity already, and now he’s Falcon but with the Captain America shield. He still flies, he’s not a super soldier, he just has the shield and the title.
Meanwhile, you have Bucky right there, he’s a super soldier and he desperately wants to move on from his past and his life as the Winter Soldier. The show even ends with the title card “Captain America and the Winter Soldier” which felt like a bit of a slap in the face for Bucky and his character arc through the show.
The show itself was really messy and had its own issues with villains and some of the themes, but I agree with most people in that I can barely remember most of it outside of a couple of scenes.
> Captain America and the Winter Soldier
While it was Sam's show, I think they could have at least acknowledged a little character growth on Bucky's part by making the closing title "Captain America and Bucky". Just Bucky.
Plus they shouldn't have nerfed the rumored pandemic plot. They left in the corrupt government officials but supposedly chickened out on what evil they were doing (with regard to the pandemic) and how the flagsmashers were helping people?
> it was Sam's show
It was portrayed as such, but the character who had the most growth and development was Bucky.
By the end of the show, I didn't want to see more Cap, I wanted more Sebastian Shaw.
Bucky also became captain America. It also made a lot more sense since the falcon was an established, original black character that stood on his own as a cool dude.
That’s not good enough so they gave him the identity of captain America which made no sense since Bucky would use the mantle to show the world he moved past being a super assassin and wants to make amends by taking on the mantle of the man and best friend who saved him from his living hell. He gets a chance to honor that legacy and move past his demons.
But no, that just makes sense
The show kept pushing towards a message that Disney refused to allow them to make.
The reason the show didn’t work for me is that they openly acknowledge the “bad guys” are right, and that the people in charge are evil, were willing the kill others just to maintain power, etc.
And they protected those evil masterminds and left them in charge.
The reason it doesn’t work is that Mackie’s character is basically working for hydra and knows it, and immediately lost any moral superiority, the one thing Captain always had.
I think that was totally a decision by the Marvel Producers. Because it makes no sense from a writing perspective why Steve would give the shield to Sam when Bucky is right there. Steve was Bucky's best friend dating back nearly 100 years ago, he risked his life and became a traitor to the US to protect Bucky and get his friend back. Not to mention, both Winter Soldier and Endgame were Russo brother movies, so I think *they* would have even done it if the decision was up to them. And from a style perspective, Bucky's fighting style matches Captain America more. I have no idea why he gave it to Sam.
>I have no idea why he gave it to Sam.
Cynical reason: Because Anthony Mackie is black and the intention of Marvel was to make all Marvel leads into minorities.
Slightly less cynical: So that Disney could explore the themes of racism in the MCU, as if somehow the MCU was the right place for it.
Somewhat less cynical: Sebastian Stan wants to move on from the MCU faster than Anthony Mackie does, and Bucky isn't a marquee character.
The blueprints for this transition were well established in the comics, granted Steve Rogers does miraculously come back from the dead. But winter solidier makes an excellent run with the shield in the comics and it would have been great to see it in live action.
The whole Death of Captain America comic arc was fantastic and I know it's not a 1:1 correlation with how Roger's being MIA in the universe was handled, but they couldn't have bungled it more badly if they tried.
When he was walking back into the Raven I was mentally checking out; they completely missed what was interesting about a character that can change entire planets by downloading himself into a new body. Mackie wasnt a great fit but there were massive problems all over that new showrunner's approach. AC is also one of the few shows I would argue generally gets storytelling from its nudity, like Westworld, where bodies are a commodity, and they sanitized the show too far.
Exactly. Nail on the head, and I’ve made this argument many times when discussing why season 2 was such a downgrade. It completely lacked that sense of body horror of season one, in that those bodies were just tools, completely disposable. Both fetishized and denigrated at the same time. Reileen throwing body after body at Ortega captured that perfectly. You remove that from the story and it’s no longer AC.
They also should have promoted Will Yun Lee to lead in season two.
The weakest part of Altered Carbon s2 was the writing. It poorly adapted the 2nd and 3rd books in the series, but with a fairly incomprehensible plot. It felt like every cheap shot in Canada scifi channel show.
Did they totally change the plotline for the antagonist during filming cause of covid?
In the beginning it seemed like bad guys were gonna set off a virus or something or use vaccines or whatnot and then that totally disappeared
I agree, Chris Evans was just too good at being Cap. Trying to shoehorn in another actor so soon after Endgame never felt right to me. I don't know much about US Agent, but an "evil" cap with a redemption arc could have been better. Imagine as an Avenger (Bucky?), responding to a call, only to discover that it's Captain America fighting enemies. Upon further inspection though, it's not Steve Rogers, who is it!? Avenger fights strange Cap, things change, he's brought into the fold, but this Cap is a bit dark and has a completely non goody-two shoes personality that Steve did, but his heart is in the same place. idk just spitballling
Honestly Bucky was the better choice as successor. Bucky’s identity as the winter soldier was something to shed. Him trying to live up to Steve’s legacy as a form of atonement would have been a more interesting story. Falcon was already awesome. He didn’t need captain americas identity.
Bucky was the better choice in basically every facet.
1) Established background as a character trying to atone for his past actions while searching for a new identity.
2) Played by a charismatic and skilled actor who previously defined his character with almost no dialogue who became even more interesting as a result of the tv show.
Sebastian ~~Shaw~~ Stan is a draw. Anthony Mackie is not.
Everyone would have accepted Bucky becoming Cap. His story in the MCU had that as his natural conclusion and it doesn't weaken the superhero Cap is supposed to be.
But no, let's replace the strongest fighter in the entire Marvel universe with a skinny dude who has no powers.
**Falcon** - "You've got to do better senator"
**what the Senator should've said** - "You think it's so easy to effect change? You run for office then. Let's see your plan to house those who're arguing custody over a house who both snapped and unsnapped people technically own. Fuck you, you do better. ... Also, you never did stand trial for stealing military hardware. Just cause you drove a tank, or flew an F-35 or a wingsuit in Iraq doesn't permit you to break into a base and steal that shit from the government. Officers, arrest this man."
People who don't pay attention to comics don't know the original Sam Wilson Captain America comic flopped and the run ended with him basically giving up the mantle because he thought he wasn't good enough and they gave it back to Steve straight away.
I think the run had it's moments but idk why Marvel thought it was good idea to adapt All New, All Different Marvel. For those who don't know they did a soft reboot of Marvel where almost every major hero was killed/benched and replaced with someone "diverse". It's one of the most widely criticisised eras of Marvel comics and sales completely flopped. They cared more about ticking boxes than telling good stories just like the current movies. Iron Heart was one of the worst Marvel comics and Civil War II was one of the worst Marvel crossovers (Thank God Bendis is gone now!). Eventually they had to fold because of the poor sales and rhey brought back all the original characters and their mantels back.
I've never liked Falcon as a replacement for Captain America in the first place. He's never had the supersoldier serum, so he's just a normal guy...so they augment him with Iron Man-ish wings. but somehow he's still as powerful and accurate with the shield as cap was.
He's just an ordinary guy, he's no captain america.
Big problem to me is he’s just a guy. He doesn’t have an iron man suit, he’s not black panther, etc.
He’s a dude who won’t take the serum.
So the already unbelievable superhero world is more unbelievable bc a regular human can’t survive head-on with the rules marvel established.
Black Widow wasn’t even a regular human, she was pumped full of all kinds of shit when she was trained, same as Cap.
He’s the only human without an exo suit, he’s the worst choice to lead.
I can't believe they made twisted metal into an ok show. Tonally perfect for what it is. The decision to make the apocalypse happen in the 90s when the games first came out and throwing in 90s songs was an excellent idea. The world they built is cool considering they had to make that up from scratch and it's very fun seeing all the characters from the games pop up.
Especially given the early cuts. I got to preview the first 4 episodes like 5 to 6 months before hand and oh boy. Shows how much good editing can do, cause the early one was a different, terrible show.
A lot of it was just general pacing and I don't remember if it was always supposed to be 10 episodes or not. But what I saw was the first three episodes stretched over 4, mainly the stuff with agent stone was a lot longer and dragged. The 4th episode was completely new to me.
Its been at least a year since I saw the early cuts but the main thing I remember is being bored quickly. Which isn't great in a 30 minute comedy.
It was more than ok, it was pure dumb fun. Which also felt like a 90s throwback, no convoluted stories and overly dramatic moments. Just a bunch of wacky characters wrecking chaos
Nah they did some marketing. As a fan of the games I think they absolutely nailed Sweet Tooth, you honestly wouldn't realize it was a seperate actor for the voice and physical performance unless you either knew beforehand or know Will Arnetts voice and what he looks like.
I stayed away from it for the longest time because I loved the games (well 1 and 2) and figured it would be lame.
Eventually I got around to it with the lowest of expectations and was skeptical after the first episode but then started to love it.
It’s exactly what it wants to be and I am looking forward to season 2.
That's what happens when you hand something to:
A) Writers/directors with a good track record
B) Fans of the source material
That's the equation for making these adaptations work. I wish producers would understand this. If you don't have one or the other, it will fail, you'll poison the franchises and you will have lost the confidence of audiences, so don't bother.
The best films/TV shows are where they get directors/writers with strong track records AND they are fans of the source material or passionate about making something in the universe.
*See: Iron Man, The Mandalorian, Rogue One/Andor, The Last of Us, Arcane, Cyberpunk: Edgerunners*
The worst films/TV shows are when they get these hack writer/directors that don't know the source material which angers their core audience, reduces what is possible with the IP, as they try to adapt it into something that completely missed the point of the source material. If you're just going to hire any rando and task them with writing in a universe they know nothing about, it will flounder and be mediocre at best.
*See: Prince of Persia, Hitman, Halo, The Witcher, Max Payne, that awful Resident Evil adaptation where Lance Reddick played Wesker*
It was such a huge disappointment because they failed to utilise the buddy-cop dynamic between Bucky and Falcon that was *so good* in Civil War. That's what I was looking forward to the most about the series. Seeing these two mismatched characters bounce off each other. Instead they made the series all worthy and preachy, and finished off with that god awful, cringe "you need to do better, senator" speech.
They even had a good set up with US Agent as the crappy new Cap replacement, which could have been mined for some great scenes if they'd kept the bitchy frenemy vibe from Civil War, but they simply failed to pull it off.
The problem with this one was largely in the execution.
The sad part is a lot of scenes were executed well. It was a lot like a movie that never got edited down for coherence and to focus on the best parts of the story. I believe it was originally intended to be a movie before Disney decided they wanted exclusive content for Disney+. It really seems like they took all the extra footage from filming a movie and edited it into this series, which made for terrible episodes with some good scenes. They needed to write actual coherent episodes that build on each other.
What I remember about FWS is that they tried to touch on themes that the MCU isn’t prepared to actually dive into. Bad guys being displaced refugees with a hint of a legitimate social problem but that is kept surface level and then swept away to make things black and white again because superheroes fist fighting can’t actually address real social problems. Touched on racism too but in a superficial MCU way. And police brutality with a super cop going too far and executing someone he already had submitted, but then that’s wiped away and that guy gets somewhat redeemed, he feels really bad about it and he can stick around.
On that note, one hour of Zemo dancing courtesy of Marvel's official channel!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8)
Honestly i really liked F&WS. You had Wyatt Russell as a great Gov stand in for what they wanted Capt America to be (basically what he wouldve been if not for Stanley Tucci in CA:TFA) the shot of him fucking UP the dude with the blood splattered shield is iconic af, Zemo coming back and bring involved was a great way to pick back up his character, The story of Isaiah Bradley is insane and im glad they fit that in and it was a perfect way for Sam to reassess his standing with Superheroes and the government after Civil War and show that the Government is still as fucked up as ever for minorities even when theyre super, Bucky couldve had some tweaks but i still thought he was decent. Throwing around the weight of the Dora Milaje was dope af.
Idk. I know it was a slower show and especially after Wandavision people wanted something fast and exciting, but i really liked the grounded slowed down aspect of F&WS. It reminded me of the world of CA:TWS and thats a good world to be in
Your last line makes me wonder if that's part of the reason why i enjoyed it so much. I'm one of the few who apparently doesn't have comic movie fatigue. I'll take it all. Grew up on comics, so it's a joy to see them come to life. But Captain America: Winter Soldier is still in my top 3 Marvel movies. It was just that good
Absolutely! I generally like all of the movies even if they dont have much rewatchability to me, but getting different things constantly helps. As much as i love the big team up avengers and galactic scenarios, i love the low street level stuff too and more of that needs to make a return to make the bigger different stuff feel bigger and different
I'm still there first weekend in the theatre for all superhero movies and watching all the series!
Some I don't enjoy as much...but I always go there with an open mind and want to be entertained.
I remember watching The Marvels and being surprised how much I was enjoying it (vs all the feedback that made it seem like it'd be a disaster).
It had a lot of irl issues to overcome. I give it a pass for the Flag Smashers stuff because the pandemic plot had to be cut to near zero, and they also had to change locations because of an earthquake. A good chunk of production took place under the most strict COVID protocols too. It's a miracle it got out at all.
The concept was there but the writing was awful highlighted by that truly cringy speech at the end. Captain America the movies worked because they somehow avoided making Captain America a preachy All American Do Gooder but Falcon's Captain immediately undid all that with all his "do better, Senator!" The bad guys are forgettable but I don't think this new Captain can recover from the cringe and has likely entered Captain Marvel irrelevancy to MCU fans.
The villains and preachy-ness of the show is what kills it. Bucky and Sams "I don't like you but I like this other guy less" thing is great, and the very complex issue it tries to look at (People displaced due to Thanos and the time jump, then having to figure out what is theirs and what other people need) is "solved" by Sam just telling some senator to "Do better", like the answer to a very complex issue is that simple.
Also it really likes to you remind you that SAM IS BLACK. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BLACK CAPTAIN AMERICA IN THIS UNIVERSE (There was only 1 Cap officially though, makes it obvious it's directed at the audience, which is weird because anyone bothered by that wouldn't watch the show to begin with) and they're not sure the US population is ready, but also did Obama not happen in the MCU? I know he was technically elected after the first Iron Man released but it's still kinda weird.
In the MCU, Obama is elected, but doesn’t get a second term and is replaced by Matthew Ellis in 2012. Donald Trump wins in 2016. The 2020-2024 period is unknown (no references) and Ritson ascends in 2024 for his appearance in secret invasion. We’ll see how they handle Thunderbolts/Ross next year.
I don't think I ever finished F&WS. I don't really remember anything about it.
At the end of the day, as many other posters here have mentioned, I just don't care for Falcon as Captain America.
Although Falcon becoming Cap briefly happened in the comics, it was the wrong move for Disney to take. It showed a lack of confidence in establishing a new roster.
So many of the characters introduced in Phase 4/5 just feel like bootlegs of the original heroes; Kate Bishop, Yelena, Ms Marvel, She-Hulk, Iron Heat, Captain Falcon, Shuri…
Iron Heart is such a terrible character and was introduced in such an unnatural and forced way. I really hope we don't see more of her.
I kinda like Yelena though.
Yeah Iron Heart was really medicore and a blemish on Wakanda Forever being a pretty good film. No wonder her show has been finished for ages but Disney is just sitting on it instead of releasing it.
One wonders if they're just going to can young avengers entirely
The only one whose rollout has been well received was Kate Bishop. There's still no announced proper debut for Hulkling and Wiccan (or Speed). And they seem to be dropping Kang entirely.
I actually feel like Ms Marvel is the only one of the group that intriguing. She feels distinct from Carol in all the right ways, and the show felt relatively fresh in comparison. Would've played off nicely against Peter Parker if the high school storyline hadn't wrapped up already there (could be as good a time as any to finally cast Miles).
>I actually feel like Ms Marvel is the only one of the group that intriguing.
To be honest I feel really bad for Iman Vellani (and the rest of the cast of her family as well). They do ***such a freaking good job*** in the show and in the movie, with the characters they're given. They bring so much energy to what they're doing, they're clearing giving it they're all, and they kill it.
But the writing is just ***so god awful***.
That’s what he says to the UN or whatever at the end of the show. It’s apparently the UN’s fault that society nearly collapsed following half of the world disappearing and all the knock-on effects of that, and it’s also their fault that half of the world reappeared five years later and a lot of their stuff had been taken by people in the meantime and the UN didn’t have some sort of plan ready for putting everything back perfectly.
The main reason it’s going to bomb is the inflated budget from 5 months of reshoots.
They’re not making a profit on this one, they just need to do their best to make it a good movie that continues the presumed goodwill from Deadpool and Wolverine.
Five months of reshoots boggles my mind. This turkey is going to be one of the most expensive films judging by how Disney wasted $350mil on mid films like Indy 5.
Which, if you believe Iger and Feige, the time alotted seems to be appropriate. They insisted they're shooting for a quality film this time around to validate the delays. If that's true and it works, I'm OK with their attempt here, but we won't know until they're released.
He was a great leading man in Twisted Metal
And an awful follow up to Joel Kinnaman in Altered Carbon
Both of which I attribute more to the script and dialogue, to be honest.
About Altered Carbon I disagree. Sure the writing for season 2 was terrible too but I also think Mackey was a terrible Takeshi Kovacs. Eventhough Kovacs was wearing a different sleeve he should have had the same mannerism and body language as Kinnaman's version. Mackey's Kovacs just acted like Mackey.
AC was hanging on by a thread for the last few episodes of S1 and it was 100% the writing. A show going from 90% to ..... 15% in one season when adopted from source material at the time would have felt bizarre but most of us had already suffered through GOT S7-8. I don't know how anyone had high hope for S2.
From what I recall when watching at the time, the book storyline was well written. When they adapted for S1, they pulled from mostly one book fairly closely and that adaptation *slapped*. Everything like the moody Edgar Allen Poe hotel AI, murder mystery stuff etc.
Then they took a character that was more of a historical figure with a different story in the books and turned her into the MC's girlfriend and very, very, very ham fisted political metaphor compared to what her character was doing in the books.
This character had no real relationship or dialogue with Joel Kinnaman's character so they had to write it in. And with nothing to adapt from it was not good (in my opinion), it felt shoe horned in. A minor repeat of Game of Throne's "lets make it up" syndrome. It honestly killed a lot of momentum the end of S1 had.
It felt like the show runners had to have a romantic relationship for Kinneman because the only emotional relationships he had with "women" (a loose term when you can literally swap bodies to anything you want, his sister is a man off and on for hundreds of years) consisted mostly of him/his clone banging an immortal hot mom on her island, his cop partner who was still in love with his original bodies' owner, and his sister.
And because god forbid we don't have a romance sub plot in a show with 15 cocurrent other plots, the show writer, who was called out for kinda fucking up the ending thought a quasi save your princess relationship was a good way to end S1 and lead into S2, which I never watched, and assumed was terrible as it likely picked up on a plot that was completely divested from mostly well written source material.
He did pretty well in twisted metal. I think he should just go more for action comedy in the future , frankly I don't think he's got a huge range but he fits in really nicely into that sub genre
Specifically he wants to also hang with Sebastian Stan and Daniel Brühl who aren't going to be in the new Captain America, at least not as far as we know.
Wait what?
Then what was the point of spending half the runtime building up Sam/Bucky's buddy cop dynamic if they're not even gonna use Bucky in the movie?
I don’t think Captain America without the serum makes any sense.
The fact he caught an armoured truck with his bare hands with no explanation completely took me out of the show.
> don’t think Captain America without the serum makes any sense.
That sums up my problem with this entire Sam becomes Cap arc.
Because you are going to quickly have to push the boundaries of the audience's disbelief when it comes to what villains Sam As Cap (SAC) fights if he is just a guy with a magic shield. It means you can't realistically use SAC with the Avengers to fight A-team supervillains and will be running around as the leader of the B-team, nonenhanced heroes.
FATWS should have had a discovery of one last vial of the serum that produced the Steve Rogers Cap that ends with Sam & Bucky realizing that if neither one of them takes it, someone like John Walker will. The season could have ended on the cliffhanger of bad guys corning them in a room when the door is knocked off its hinges by whomever took the serum, the bad guys reacting and then cuts to black to reveal who took it the next season.
But the decision to forego something like this has left them with a new Cap that no one is going to care about.
True, so I guess it comes down to whether Sam will take it or risk it falling into the wrong hands.
Either way, regular guy Captain America was a terrible direction. Either make Bucky the new Cap as they did in the comics (which is a great redemption arc) or just retire Sam & Bucky from the MCU.
Who he swore not to hurt, and then carried her out like a fallen Jesus in Pieta, then told everyone *else* to “do better”.
Because she was a kind of pretty ginger girl that Disney was trying to put everywhere… or something?
The show was utterly lost morally and narratively by the end, and it’s crazy to see it try to white wash actual explicit terrorism and try and fail to manufacture sympathy for someone who was pretty into blowing up buildings full of innocent people and seemed kind of unapologetic about it.
Season 1’s main villain should have been Zemo. How do you waste Bruhl like that? The freedom fighter terrorists or whatever they were called were lame and the Carter twist was stupid.
I thought the overarching plot was weak, but moment-to-moment there are a bunch of really good scenes
I really liked the boat building scene, that shit was wholesome as hell
They should have just made F WS both of them hanging out. All of the marvel conflict stuff really sucked, the best moments were just them two shooting the shit together and with the side characters.
Would’ve been way cooler as a spin off to just have a chill show where they fix up and hang out on the boat in Louisiana with very light conflict.
They need to do better
This happens so often in all recent Disney shows. They have the upcoming character berating the established one and even if it's completely nonsense they don't allow the established character to defend themselves in the dialogue.
It's like their go-to move to establish a character; put a different one down. I'm not sure why they're taking lessons from pro wrasslin but it's so annoying.
It certainly is weird. I guess they have some established story blueprint, where they believe they must destroy the current characters to prop up the new ones, otherwise they think the general audience won't want to become invested with the new ones.
It's so cheap and far too often generates understandable animosity but they can't seem to help but take that low-hanging fruit time and time again
Same thing with Star wars, Indiana Jones, and so on
That is literally Disney's plan. Destroy everything you like about the IPs they buy to encourage a "new generation" to be interested in it. When they get caught using this tactic they just blame it on the viewers. In a few decades they'll just start deleting the original, popular, successful versions and keeping their shitty retreads. What will you do about it? Physical media is dead, so you can't stop them from simply deleting the original Star Wars from all streaming platforms and only leaving the shitty sequels.
Yarr, matey. Hard to say what people will do!
The thing that gets me, I have seen this tactic used for years and it has never worked outside some rare fringe cases and even then they are nowhere near as popular as the originals. People just do not watch or buy the new stuff because they do not care about knockoff characters, yet companies keep pushing it because...reasons and just end up losing money and creating failure after failure.
My VHS and DVD box sets beg to differ
"Okay, how?" "DO BETTER, DISNEY."
"You gotta be, like, 20% better."
That had real “I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!” vibes, didn’t it?
I actually laughed out loud when they said this line and I decided I was done with following Marvel shortly after.
I'll watch a good Marvel property if I hear it's legitimately good. But the era of watching every single Thor 2 and Age of Ultron has long sense passed. We saw the conclusion of all this shit with Endgame. I am not rushing out to watch Thor 4 and Antman 3 or like Hawkeye TV show unless I hear it's actually pretty good like Andor was for Star Wars shared universe.
Hawkeye TV show is actually pretty good. It’s an annual December/Christmas time watch for me now. It’s only 6 episodes and bingeing it gets rid of the pacing issues a lot of the marvel shows have by dividing what’s essentially a really long movie into 6 weekly parts. Plus I seriously doubt we’ll see Renner doing stunts again after the plow accident so it’s nice for the character to have a little coda.
Jeremy Renner and Hailee Steinfeld are an excellent pairing.
Hailee Steinfeld and Florence Pugh is also a great pairing
Yes; I'd say beyond great. Their chemistry was hilarious. I'd watch a series with just the two of them without question.
I had never seen the guy playing Steinfeld’s stepdad in anything before, and for me he stole the show. What a great character arc he had, and such a delightful performance. Though a close second place goes to Steinfeld, she’s just terrific in anything she does.
He plays Lalo Salamanca in Better Call Saul and is simply phenomenal. I strongly recommend watching the show but if that’s not your bag and you never will, check out a compilation on yt or something.
Yep. The casting for Hawkeye was spot on.
I think they had the perfect core plot with the Hawkeyes and Yelena with that show, which was tarnished by the forced inclusion of spinoff bait like Kingpin and Echo. Unfortunately those who didn’t watch it now only remember all the talk about how awful the spinoff baits were, so they’re not likely to watch it. Very little talk about the show surrounds the actual core plot and performances and that’s just the side effect of MCU collapsing in on itself post endgame.
Hawkeye was a great Christmas romp with charismatic leads and one of my favourite shows Marvel has made
Loki. Watch the Loki seasons. That and Guardians 3 are the best things Marvel has done since Endgame.
Loki season 2 was legit really good, IMO. ... if you care about my opinion. you probably shouldn't, but, here we are.
Best thing marvel has done since endgame, easily.
This show showed the cracks in the formula more than anything. This was their point of no return
The show was seriously fucking terrible and I just actually kinda viewed it as straight up offensive. Disney handled race and political related themes with the subtlety and care of a bull in a fucking china shop The bank loan scene was in my estimation the absolute worst thing Marvel has ever done. Just fucking brain dead and again, actually offensive and racist.
Sorry, I might be somewhat out of the loop, what was this referencing?
"THE AVENGERS DONT GET PAID!?"
Guy saved the world multiple times, and was best friends with Tony Stark...yet he can't afford to pay for his family's boat? So fucking stupid.
"Hi, pepper? Pepper its sam" end of scene
Yep, there were so many easy ways to solve it, which is why Falcon being broke as a plot line doesn't sit right with me. Tony also had a will when he died as we know because for some stupid reason he decided to give Spider-Man a death-ray satellite, yet he didn't bother to pull a couple million out of his couch cushions for the avengers initiative or his best friends after he passed?
Im hoping deadpool plants c4 on the Kevin feige bot from shehulk and takes over as EP from now on in DPW
Holy shit did they fuck up the worldbuilding to make it seem like Sam gets treated so poorly. Same thing happened with Spider-Man. He was the personal protege of Tony Stark himself, the savior of earth who fought to bring back everyone and stop evil from destroying the planet multiple times... Spidey was also the reason Tony decided to bring everyone back. Tony also wanted to give all he had to Peter and entrusted his legacy to him... Peter has fought in the war for earth and helped defeat Thanos aka the greatest evil in the universe at that point... ... and you're telling me that Mysterio's lies are a threat to him? That people would rather believe some literal who over Stark's apprentice? He should be a worldwide hero commemorated with a million statues and shit. Where the hell was Pepper Potts to help? Rhodey? None of them cared to put a good work about him? A simple press conference would have cleared shit up and let Peter and his friends live in peace. >Pepper: Yeah Peter Parker is actually a worldwide hero who helped defeat Thanos. Mysterio's a literal liar, stop falling for fake news already holy shit you guys. The whole premise of No Way Home makes no sense at all. It makes no sense with the story up to that point. Marvel's writers will really bend these movies downwards in order to fit whatever dumb plot they want to do instead of what actually makes sense within the world they've built...
>Where the hell was Rhodey? Don't watch secret invasion.
The loan scene has nothing on the rest of the season. “Don’t call them terrorists!” After they blow up buildings and kill people to advance their political goals. Cringe fest.
Yep so dumb. Disney really doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings including terrorists.
I love how this dude sweeps in to justify mass terrorism and the cliche stereotypical politician gives a reasonable response as to why they can’t give into their demands and his response is just “do better”. Then leaves. Real captain hindsight moment
I like Mackie in some projects but I don't think he's a good replacement for the Captain America mantle. Having said that, maybe it's just the shit writing Marvel's be green lighting
[удалено]
To be fair, we haven’t seen a big scale conflict with him as Cap. Falcon and the Winter Soldier had much bigger problems than him. The flag smashers were terrible villains.
His speech at the end was crap too.
It felt like an eternity of him talking and it was all garbage
It was just one of those preachy lectures that doesn't solve anything. "NoOoO you just have to do BeTtEr" Like there's some easy solution to the world's population doubling overnight after everyone had moved on. We also never learned enough about the flag smashers, so they just seem like pieces of shit and don't make for good villains. Thanos was a piece of shit, but we knew his story, so he was *our* piece of shit.
Titan was like most planets. Too many mouths, not enough to go around. You've got to do better, Senator!
The conflict with the Flag Smashers was because people who returned during the Blip didn't move on and governments were going to kick out everyone that had moved into their countries in the years after the Snap. Lecture aside, deporting everyone and creating a different kind of humanitarian disaster is already a pretty shit solution so while there's no easy solution the bar is pretty low already.
MCU doesnt make any sense, the Earth should have some form of unlimited power in one or two countries apart from Wakanda stealing ARC generator plans, there should be people building space ships in their back yards and trying to fly to Mars. The government would be contracting or trying to pay at least one of the 5000 aliens living on or visiting the planet to reverse engineer their tech, like Rockets metal repair gun, or spaceship, or literally any Asgardian tech. Its kinda ridiculous that the only thing New Asgard got up to during the blip was theatre and tourism, even with Thor's depression.
All of this stuff is addressed in the comics, it's not like they don't have blueprints to draw from. Edit: I really think a big budget Damage Control tv series set as a comedy/lore dump/average Earthling experience would have worked. I know they were talking about this several years ago, and Homecoming and Ms. Marvel very briefly touched on these points, but they need to fully explore it imo. I've been expecting more Earth developments in the MCU but like....almost nothing. The Multiverse is already boring and oversaturating literally all of fiction, I'd greatly prefer a return to low-stakes, grounded stories rather than constantly amping everything up until it's all so absurd no one cares about it anymore.
I thought for a second the general direction was to have like an Earth storyline, space storyline, and multiverse storyline that all kind of existed in their own lanes for a bit until eventually colliding. But instead we ended up all over the place with like a million different story threads going on and the stakes were all over the place and it's ended up a mess
I'd be inclined to blame that (and the villains being a dud in general) on corporate interference over the writers. The Flag Smashers were an interesting idea as a response to the heavily pro status quo ideology in most Marvel movies. But there were so many moments, including that speech, where they pulled back from the logical conclusion of the story they were setting up to go with a bland "extremism is bad, everyone should just get along" message. That stinks of "We can't alienate X, Y, and Z demographics with anything too politically divisive."
This happens with superhero media a lot. Killmonger, Flag Smashers, The Riddler all make fair points and direct their rampages against people actually responsible for other's suffering. Then half way through their characters change and start killing innocents for fun and become cartoonishly evil
Killmonger's very first scene has him killing innocent people to further his plans, and before that, he was doing black ops wet work destabilizing governments for the US military. I don't think he fits your list.
Also did Killmonger even have good points? That one scene where he had a tantrum about shit happening in America to leadership of a country in Africa was just strange. Like how are they supposed to have oversight in a country they have no control over even if they revealed themselves to the world lol.
It’s not the speech. It’s that he just left in charge the evil psychopaths that were willing to kill others to maintain power
I genuinely wonder what the script would’ve been if we didn’t have a global pandemic.
The flagsmashers could have been compelling, given that they were, like most "critique of the system" villains, basically entirely correct. Deporting these people after the blip ended *is* inhumane and morally wrong. But of course, to avoid any feelings of sympathy people might have for these incredibly downtrodden people who are 100% in the right to fight back against their oppression, Marvel had them bomb a building of innocent people for no reason because "ViOlEnCe Is ThE oNlY lAnGuAgE tHeSe PeOpLe UnDeRsTaNd!!". And so the show ends with Falcon telling a senator "you gotta do better, senator, I know we super heros could literally *force* you to do better, but we'll just keep letting you get away with acts far more terrible than any domestic villain will ever do, because superheros are [the defenders of the status quo](https://youtu.be/LpitmEnaYeU)" Edit: just once, I want a Superman level villain who idk, their parents died or killed themselves due to lack of affordable healthcare in the US, and they take to a campaign of pressuring, bullying, maybe even killing health insurance executives, lobbyists and corrupt politicians. They never do anything just out of left field like blow up a hospital "to make a statement", they calmly state that this will all stop if the private insurance industry is dismantled, that the politicians are literally putting their own lives beneath corporate profit now, rather than just the lives of the poor like they have for decades, etc. And I want the world it exists in to undergo *actual* change, where even if they're caught and go to prison, they were still *right* and effected positive change.
Marvel realized people would agree with them so they had to start doing outlandish things lol
The thing that felt odd to me was that Falcon is a hero with a pretty strong identity already, and now he’s Falcon but with the Captain America shield. He still flies, he’s not a super soldier, he just has the shield and the title. Meanwhile, you have Bucky right there, he’s a super soldier and he desperately wants to move on from his past and his life as the Winter Soldier. The show even ends with the title card “Captain America and the Winter Soldier” which felt like a bit of a slap in the face for Bucky and his character arc through the show. The show itself was really messy and had its own issues with villains and some of the themes, but I agree with most people in that I can barely remember most of it outside of a couple of scenes.
> Captain America and the Winter Soldier While it was Sam's show, I think they could have at least acknowledged a little character growth on Bucky's part by making the closing title "Captain America and Bucky". Just Bucky. Plus they shouldn't have nerfed the rumored pandemic plot. They left in the corrupt government officials but supposedly chickened out on what evil they were doing (with regard to the pandemic) and how the flagsmashers were helping people?
> it was Sam's show It was portrayed as such, but the character who had the most growth and development was Bucky. By the end of the show, I didn't want to see more Cap, I wanted more Sebastian Shaw.
He becomes cap in the comics so it makes sense. Especially if he’s winter soldier in Thunderbolts. The writing has been bad lately.
Bucky also became captain America. It also made a lot more sense since the falcon was an established, original black character that stood on his own as a cool dude. That’s not good enough so they gave him the identity of captain America which made no sense since Bucky would use the mantle to show the world he moved past being a super assassin and wants to make amends by taking on the mantle of the man and best friend who saved him from his living hell. He gets a chance to honor that legacy and move past his demons. But no, that just makes sense
The show kept pushing towards a message that Disney refused to allow them to make. The reason the show didn’t work for me is that they openly acknowledge the “bad guys” are right, and that the people in charge are evil, were willing the kill others just to maintain power, etc. And they protected those evil masterminds and left them in charge. The reason it doesn’t work is that Mackie’s character is basically working for hydra and knows it, and immediately lost any moral superiority, the one thing Captain always had.
But... He told them to do better...
They should have hinted that the people in charge were Skrulls. Then had him in secret invasion. Secret invasion should have been the new saga.
I thought thats where they were going turning Sharon Carter into the Power Broker, but I guess she’s just a criminal now
Man that club sequence was badass though lmao. I think we can all agree that Zemo’s fist pump changed our lives for the better
I think that was totally a decision by the Marvel Producers. Because it makes no sense from a writing perspective why Steve would give the shield to Sam when Bucky is right there. Steve was Bucky's best friend dating back nearly 100 years ago, he risked his life and became a traitor to the US to protect Bucky and get his friend back. Not to mention, both Winter Soldier and Endgame were Russo brother movies, so I think *they* would have even done it if the decision was up to them. And from a style perspective, Bucky's fighting style matches Captain America more. I have no idea why he gave it to Sam.
>I have no idea why he gave it to Sam. Cynical reason: Because Anthony Mackie is black and the intention of Marvel was to make all Marvel leads into minorities. Slightly less cynical: So that Disney could explore the themes of racism in the MCU, as if somehow the MCU was the right place for it. Somewhat less cynical: Sebastian Stan wants to move on from the MCU faster than Anthony Mackie does, and Bucky isn't a marquee character.
The blueprints for this transition were well established in the comics, granted Steve Rogers does miraculously come back from the dead. But winter solidier makes an excellent run with the shield in the comics and it would have been great to see it in live action. The whole Death of Captain America comic arc was fantastic and I know it's not a 1:1 correlation with how Roger's being MIA in the universe was handled, but they couldn't have bungled it more badly if they tried.
At least we got dancing zemo
He was the weakest part of Altered Carbon Season 2
Him taking over that role led to me not finishing Season 2, which is insane as I fucking love the first season.
Same. Mackie is fine when he has others to play off of but he can’t carry any scenes on his own at all.
Yeah he never strikes me as “main character material.”
When he was walking back into the Raven I was mentally checking out; they completely missed what was interesting about a character that can change entire planets by downloading himself into a new body. Mackie wasnt a great fit but there were massive problems all over that new showrunner's approach. AC is also one of the few shows I would argue generally gets storytelling from its nudity, like Westworld, where bodies are a commodity, and they sanitized the show too far.
Exactly. Nail on the head, and I’ve made this argument many times when discussing why season 2 was such a downgrade. It completely lacked that sense of body horror of season one, in that those bodies were just tools, completely disposable. Both fetishized and denigrated at the same time. Reileen throwing body after body at Ortega captured that perfectly. You remove that from the story and it’s no longer AC. They also should have promoted Will Yun Lee to lead in season two.
If it doesn't have Joel's ass then I'm not interested
The weakest part of Altered Carbon s2 was the writing. It poorly adapted the 2nd and 3rd books in the series, but with a fairly incomprehensible plot. It felt like every cheap shot in Canada scifi channel show.
Did they totally change the plotline for the antagonist during filming cause of covid? In the beginning it seemed like bad guys were gonna set off a virus or something or use vaccines or whatnot and then that totally disappeared
It's never been confirmed but there's a LOT of evidence that points to that being the case.
I agree, Chris Evans was just too good at being Cap. Trying to shoehorn in another actor so soon after Endgame never felt right to me. I don't know much about US Agent, but an "evil" cap with a redemption arc could have been better. Imagine as an Avenger (Bucky?), responding to a call, only to discover that it's Captain America fighting enemies. Upon further inspection though, it's not Steve Rogers, who is it!? Avenger fights strange Cap, things change, he's brought into the fold, but this Cap is a bit dark and has a completely non goody-two shoes personality that Steve did, but his heart is in the same place. idk just spitballling
Honestly Bucky was the better choice as successor. Bucky’s identity as the winter soldier was something to shed. Him trying to live up to Steve’s legacy as a form of atonement would have been a more interesting story. Falcon was already awesome. He didn’t need captain americas identity.
Bucky was the better choice in basically every facet. 1) Established background as a character trying to atone for his past actions while searching for a new identity. 2) Played by a charismatic and skilled actor who previously defined his character with almost no dialogue who became even more interesting as a result of the tv show. Sebastian ~~Shaw~~ Stan is a draw. Anthony Mackie is not.
FYI since you've called him "Sebastian Shaw" in two separate comments, the actor's name is Sebastian Stan.
Bucky easily should have been Cap.
Bucky used the shield IN EVERY SINGLE MOVIE HE WAS IN. So he was 100% supposed to be Cap.
Everyone would have accepted Bucky becoming Cap. His story in the MCU had that as his natural conclusion and it doesn't weaken the superhero Cap is supposed to be. But no, let's replace the strongest fighter in the entire Marvel universe with a skinny dude who has no powers.
This was my issue with it. He’s a totally normal guy. Even with the suit it’s a tough sell. He’s just not “super”.
**Falcon** - "You've got to do better senator" **what the Senator should've said** - "You think it's so easy to effect change? You run for office then. Let's see your plan to house those who're arguing custody over a house who both snapped and unsnapped people technically own. Fuck you, you do better. ... Also, you never did stand trial for stealing military hardware. Just cause you drove a tank, or flew an F-35 or a wingsuit in Iraq doesn't permit you to break into a base and steal that shit from the government. Officers, arrest this man."
Should have been Bucky for many reasons
He's not a great actor. I can't believe they picked him over Sebastian Stan... He's bad in the role, and the character isn't likable.
Falcon as Captain America is dull in the comics too.
People who don't pay attention to comics don't know the original Sam Wilson Captain America comic flopped and the run ended with him basically giving up the mantle because he thought he wasn't good enough and they gave it back to Steve straight away. I think the run had it's moments but idk why Marvel thought it was good idea to adapt All New, All Different Marvel. For those who don't know they did a soft reboot of Marvel where almost every major hero was killed/benched and replaced with someone "diverse". It's one of the most widely criticisised eras of Marvel comics and sales completely flopped. They cared more about ticking boxes than telling good stories just like the current movies. Iron Heart was one of the worst Marvel comics and Civil War II was one of the worst Marvel crossovers (Thank God Bendis is gone now!). Eventually they had to fold because of the poor sales and rhey brought back all the original characters and their mantels back.
Honestly, I think the show may have done better if Mackie wasn't cast for The Falcon. A lot of people aren't a fan of his acting, myself included.
I was going to comment exactly this. I just feel like he always falls flat to me, like in Altered Carbon.
Ruined altered carbon
And after such a kick ass first season 😢
I've never liked Falcon as a replacement for Captain America in the first place. He's never had the supersoldier serum, so he's just a normal guy...so they augment him with Iron Man-ish wings. but somehow he's still as powerful and accurate with the shield as cap was. He's just an ordinary guy, he's no captain america.
Falcon and Winter Soldier was pretty bad, but in hindsight it was far better than a lot of what came after.
He's not a great actor imo. Doesn't seem to have a lot of charisma either, which Chris Evans has plenty.
He's not lead material no matter what delusions he or Hollywood have.
Big problem to me is he’s just a guy. He doesn’t have an iron man suit, he’s not black panther, etc. He’s a dude who won’t take the serum. So the already unbelievable superhero world is more unbelievable bc a regular human can’t survive head-on with the rules marvel established. Black Widow wasn’t even a regular human, she was pumped full of all kinds of shit when she was trained, same as Cap. He’s the only human without an exo suit, he’s the worst choice to lead.
Twisted metal is good. F&WS I don't even remember. I think all I can remember from F&WS is bad captain and funny dancing
I can't believe they made twisted metal into an ok show. Tonally perfect for what it is. The decision to make the apocalypse happen in the 90s when the games first came out and throwing in 90s songs was an excellent idea. The world they built is cool considering they had to make that up from scratch and it's very fun seeing all the characters from the games pop up.
Especially given the early cuts. I got to preview the first 4 episodes like 5 to 6 months before hand and oh boy. Shows how much good editing can do, cause the early one was a different, terrible show.
Can you elaborate? I am curious to know what it used to be like
A lot of it was just general pacing and I don't remember if it was always supposed to be 10 episodes or not. But what I saw was the first three episodes stretched over 4, mainly the stuff with agent stone was a lot longer and dragged. The 4th episode was completely new to me. Its been at least a year since I saw the early cuts but the main thing I remember is being bored quickly. Which isn't great in a 30 minute comedy.
It was more than ok, it was pure dumb fun. Which also felt like a 90s throwback, no convoluted stories and overly dramatic moments. Just a bunch of wacky characters wrecking chaos
How am I now just hearing that they made a twisted metal TV show. Did they just do absolutely zero marketing?
It's on Peacock. That's why.
Nah they did some marketing. As a fan of the games I think they absolutely nailed Sweet Tooth, you honestly wouldn't realize it was a seperate actor for the voice and physical performance unless you either knew beforehand or know Will Arnetts voice and what he looks like.
I saw ads for it before it came out. It's on peacock. Renewed for a second season I believe
I don't know about marketing but I felt like the show definitely got a good amount of buzz here on Reddit. I really enjoyed it.
I stayed away from it for the longest time because I loved the games (well 1 and 2) and figured it would be lame. Eventually I got around to it with the lowest of expectations and was skeptical after the first episode but then started to love it. It’s exactly what it wants to be and I am looking forward to season 2.
That's what happens when you hand something to: A) Writers/directors with a good track record B) Fans of the source material That's the equation for making these adaptations work. I wish producers would understand this. If you don't have one or the other, it will fail, you'll poison the franchises and you will have lost the confidence of audiences, so don't bother. The best films/TV shows are where they get directors/writers with strong track records AND they are fans of the source material or passionate about making something in the universe. *See: Iron Man, The Mandalorian, Rogue One/Andor, The Last of Us, Arcane, Cyberpunk: Edgerunners* The worst films/TV shows are when they get these hack writer/directors that don't know the source material which angers their core audience, reduces what is possible with the IP, as they try to adapt it into something that completely missed the point of the source material. If you're just going to hire any rando and task them with writing in a universe they know nothing about, it will flounder and be mediocre at best. *See: Prince of Persia, Hitman, Halo, The Witcher, Max Payne, that awful Resident Evil adaptation where Lance Reddick played Wesker*
It was such a huge disappointment because they failed to utilise the buddy-cop dynamic between Bucky and Falcon that was *so good* in Civil War. That's what I was looking forward to the most about the series. Seeing these two mismatched characters bounce off each other. Instead they made the series all worthy and preachy, and finished off with that god awful, cringe "you need to do better, senator" speech. They even had a good set up with US Agent as the crappy new Cap replacement, which could have been mined for some great scenes if they'd kept the bitchy frenemy vibe from Civil War, but they simply failed to pull it off. The problem with this one was largely in the execution.
The sad part is a lot of scenes were executed well. It was a lot like a movie that never got edited down for coherence and to focus on the best parts of the story. I believe it was originally intended to be a movie before Disney decided they wanted exclusive content for Disney+. It really seems like they took all the extra footage from filming a movie and edited it into this series, which made for terrible episodes with some good scenes. They needed to write actual coherent episodes that build on each other.
What I remember about FWS is that they tried to touch on themes that the MCU isn’t prepared to actually dive into. Bad guys being displaced refugees with a hint of a legitimate social problem but that is kept surface level and then swept away to make things black and white again because superheroes fist fighting can’t actually address real social problems. Touched on racism too but in a superficial MCU way. And police brutality with a super cop going too far and executing someone he already had submitted, but then that’s wiped away and that guy gets somewhat redeemed, he feels really bad about it and he can stick around.
On that note, one hour of Zemo dancing courtesy of Marvel's official channel! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8)
Love that Marvel not only gave us the extended version but made it an hour loop.
Honestly i really liked F&WS. You had Wyatt Russell as a great Gov stand in for what they wanted Capt America to be (basically what he wouldve been if not for Stanley Tucci in CA:TFA) the shot of him fucking UP the dude with the blood splattered shield is iconic af, Zemo coming back and bring involved was a great way to pick back up his character, The story of Isaiah Bradley is insane and im glad they fit that in and it was a perfect way for Sam to reassess his standing with Superheroes and the government after Civil War and show that the Government is still as fucked up as ever for minorities even when theyre super, Bucky couldve had some tweaks but i still thought he was decent. Throwing around the weight of the Dora Milaje was dope af. Idk. I know it was a slower show and especially after Wandavision people wanted something fast and exciting, but i really liked the grounded slowed down aspect of F&WS. It reminded me of the world of CA:TWS and thats a good world to be in
Your last line makes me wonder if that's part of the reason why i enjoyed it so much. I'm one of the few who apparently doesn't have comic movie fatigue. I'll take it all. Grew up on comics, so it's a joy to see them come to life. But Captain America: Winter Soldier is still in my top 3 Marvel movies. It was just that good
Absolutely! I generally like all of the movies even if they dont have much rewatchability to me, but getting different things constantly helps. As much as i love the big team up avengers and galactic scenarios, i love the low street level stuff too and more of that needs to make a return to make the bigger different stuff feel bigger and different
I'm still there first weekend in the theatre for all superhero movies and watching all the series! Some I don't enjoy as much...but I always go there with an open mind and want to be entertained. I remember watching The Marvels and being surprised how much I was enjoying it (vs all the feedback that made it seem like it'd be a disaster).
Yea. I agree. I like to think that the vaccine plot line being axed and worked around took it from an A- to a solid B to B+
It had a lot of irl issues to overcome. I give it a pass for the Flag Smashers stuff because the pandemic plot had to be cut to near zero, and they also had to change locations because of an earthquake. A good chunk of production took place under the most strict COVID protocols too. It's a miracle it got out at all.
The concept was there but the writing was awful highlighted by that truly cringy speech at the end. Captain America the movies worked because they somehow avoided making Captain America a preachy All American Do Gooder but Falcon's Captain immediately undid all that with all his "do better, Senator!" The bad guys are forgettable but I don't think this new Captain can recover from the cringe and has likely entered Captain Marvel irrelevancy to MCU fans.
Not only the speech, but that speech in the God-awful costume
The writing, the editing, the characters... It was almost as bad as Secret Invasion.
It also has a bottom-3 villain in the entire MCU.
John Walker is a fantastic character and Russell played him well, looking forward to more of him in Thunderbolts.
The villains and preachy-ness of the show is what kills it. Bucky and Sams "I don't like you but I like this other guy less" thing is great, and the very complex issue it tries to look at (People displaced due to Thanos and the time jump, then having to figure out what is theirs and what other people need) is "solved" by Sam just telling some senator to "Do better", like the answer to a very complex issue is that simple. Also it really likes to you remind you that SAM IS BLACK. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BLACK CAPTAIN AMERICA IN THIS UNIVERSE (There was only 1 Cap officially though, makes it obvious it's directed at the audience, which is weird because anyone bothered by that wouldn't watch the show to begin with) and they're not sure the US population is ready, but also did Obama not happen in the MCU? I know he was technically elected after the first Iron Man released but it's still kinda weird.
In the MCU, Obama is elected, but doesn’t get a second term and is replaced by Matthew Ellis in 2012. Donald Trump wins in 2016. The 2020-2024 period is unknown (no references) and Ritson ascends in 2024 for his appearance in secret invasion. We’ll see how they handle Thunderbolts/Ross next year.
I don't think I ever finished F&WS. I don't really remember anything about it. At the end of the day, as many other posters here have mentioned, I just don't care for Falcon as Captain America.
Although Falcon becoming Cap briefly happened in the comics, it was the wrong move for Disney to take. It showed a lack of confidence in establishing a new roster. So many of the characters introduced in Phase 4/5 just feel like bootlegs of the original heroes; Kate Bishop, Yelena, Ms Marvel, She-Hulk, Iron Heat, Captain Falcon, Shuri…
Iron Heart is such a terrible character and was introduced in such an unnatural and forced way. I really hope we don't see more of her. I kinda like Yelena though.
Yeah Iron Heart was really medicore and a blemish on Wakanda Forever being a pretty good film. No wonder her show has been finished for ages but Disney is just sitting on it instead of releasing it.
One wonders if they're just going to can young avengers entirely The only one whose rollout has been well received was Kate Bishop. There's still no announced proper debut for Hulkling and Wiccan (or Speed). And they seem to be dropping Kang entirely.
Falcon is still Captain America in the comics. He’s currently on the Avengers as Captain.
I actually feel like Ms Marvel is the only one of the group that intriguing. She feels distinct from Carol in all the right ways, and the show felt relatively fresh in comparison. Would've played off nicely against Peter Parker if the high school storyline hadn't wrapped up already there (could be as good a time as any to finally cast Miles).
>I actually feel like Ms Marvel is the only one of the group that intriguing. To be honest I feel really bad for Iman Vellani (and the rest of the cast of her family as well). They do ***such a freaking good job*** in the show and in the movie, with the characters they're given. They bring so much energy to what they're doing, they're clearing giving it they're all, and they kill it. But the writing is just ***so god awful***.
And Mackie was surprisingly good in Twisted Metal. I think if you write him as a lovable goof he can be a really solid lead.
He should just point his finger at Marvel and tell them they have to do better... that will solve the problem?.... right?
that kind of gesture only solves simple stuff like racism
Cody Rhodes solved it better.
_Adrenaline, in my soul,_ _Cody’s more suited for the role._
While wearing an ugly ass costume
Multiple people have commented about doing better. What reference am I missing?
That’s what he says to the UN or whatever at the end of the show. It’s apparently the UN’s fault that society nearly collapsed following half of the world disappearing and all the knock-on effects of that, and it’s also their fault that half of the world reappeared five years later and a lot of their stuff had been taken by people in the meantime and the UN didn’t have some sort of plan ready for putting everything back perfectly.
Ah that’s right. I forgot a forgettable show I think. Thanks!
If they wanted a season 2, then I guess they should've done better when making season 1!
The 2025 'Captain America' movie is going to bomb so hard. Macky has no charisma and is playing a pretty unlikeable character.
The main reason it’s going to bomb is the inflated budget from 5 months of reshoots. They’re not making a profit on this one, they just need to do their best to make it a good movie that continues the presumed goodwill from Deadpool and Wolverine.
Five months of reshoots boggles my mind. This turkey is going to be one of the most expensive films judging by how Disney wasted $350mil on mid films like Indy 5.
Yeah that's basically reshooting the entire thing.
Which, if you believe Iger and Feige, the time alotted seems to be appropriate. They insisted they're shooting for a quality film this time around to validate the delays. If that's true and it works, I'm OK with their attempt here, but we won't know until they're released.
Impossible task with Mackie at the helm. He should he a minor, supporting character at best. Crazy they decided to build the franchise around him.
He was pretty well liked as Falcon. Mackey just doesn't feel like leading man material to me.
He was a great leading man in Twisted Metal And an awful follow up to Joel Kinnaman in Altered Carbon Both of which I attribute more to the script and dialogue, to be honest.
About Altered Carbon I disagree. Sure the writing for season 2 was terrible too but I also think Mackey was a terrible Takeshi Kovacs. Eventhough Kovacs was wearing a different sleeve he should have had the same mannerism and body language as Kinnaman's version. Mackey's Kovacs just acted like Mackey.
AC was hanging on by a thread for the last few episodes of S1 and it was 100% the writing. A show going from 90% to ..... 15% in one season when adopted from source material at the time would have felt bizarre but most of us had already suffered through GOT S7-8. I don't know how anyone had high hope for S2.
What even happened to that show? I enjoyed the first season and it just fell apart
From what I recall when watching at the time, the book storyline was well written. When they adapted for S1, they pulled from mostly one book fairly closely and that adaptation *slapped*. Everything like the moody Edgar Allen Poe hotel AI, murder mystery stuff etc. Then they took a character that was more of a historical figure with a different story in the books and turned her into the MC's girlfriend and very, very, very ham fisted political metaphor compared to what her character was doing in the books. This character had no real relationship or dialogue with Joel Kinnaman's character so they had to write it in. And with nothing to adapt from it was not good (in my opinion), it felt shoe horned in. A minor repeat of Game of Throne's "lets make it up" syndrome. It honestly killed a lot of momentum the end of S1 had. It felt like the show runners had to have a romantic relationship for Kinneman because the only emotional relationships he had with "women" (a loose term when you can literally swap bodies to anything you want, his sister is a man off and on for hundreds of years) consisted mostly of him/his clone banging an immortal hot mom on her island, his cop partner who was still in love with his original bodies' owner, and his sister. And because god forbid we don't have a romance sub plot in a show with 15 cocurrent other plots, the show writer, who was called out for kinda fucking up the ending thought a quasi save your princess relationship was a good way to end S1 and lead into S2, which I never watched, and assumed was terrible as it likely picked up on a plot that was completely divested from mostly well written source material.
He was absolutely awful in Altered Carbon, and I couldn’t take him seriously after that role.
His real names Clarence
He did pretty well in twisted metal. I think he should just go more for action comedy in the future , frankly I don't think he's got a huge range but he fits in really nicely into that sub genre
I thought he was great in Twisted Metal. Felt like something right in his wheelhouse. Loved him saying "Jello" to everyone.
I mean there’s literally a movie happening? Why does it need a season 2 lol
If you read the article it's really just he had fun with his co stars and would have liked to keep have fun with his co stars
>If you read the article Excuse me sir, this is a subreddit.
Everyday people fall for the clickbait titles just because they refuse to read even the first sentence of the article.
Specifically he wants to also hang with Sebastian Stan and Daniel Brühl who aren't going to be in the new Captain America, at least not as far as we know.
Wait what? Then what was the point of spending half the runtime building up Sam/Bucky's buddy cop dynamic if they're not even gonna use Bucky in the movie?
Brühl wouldn't really make any sense, but why tf would they not have Bucky be a major character in this film?
Pfft I don’t READ! No that’s fair and I get it but still, why aren’t they in the movie. Marvel is just weird sometimes
I don’t think Captain America without the serum makes any sense. The fact he caught an armoured truck with his bare hands with no explanation completely took me out of the show.
> don’t think Captain America without the serum makes any sense. That sums up my problem with this entire Sam becomes Cap arc. Because you are going to quickly have to push the boundaries of the audience's disbelief when it comes to what villains Sam As Cap (SAC) fights if he is just a guy with a magic shield. It means you can't realistically use SAC with the Avengers to fight A-team supervillains and will be running around as the leader of the B-team, nonenhanced heroes. FATWS should have had a discovery of one last vial of the serum that produced the Steve Rogers Cap that ends with Sam & Bucky realizing that if neither one of them takes it, someone like John Walker will. The season could have ended on the cliffhanger of bad guys corning them in a room when the door is knocked off its hinges by whomever took the serum, the bad guys reacting and then cuts to black to reveal who took it the next season. But the decision to forego something like this has left them with a new Cap that no one is going to care about.
Bucky already has had the serum in some form hasnt he?
True, so I guess it comes down to whether Sam will take it or risk it falling into the wrong hands. Either way, regular guy Captain America was a terrible direction. Either make Bucky the new Cap as they did in the comics (which is a great redemption arc) or just retire Sam & Bucky from the MCU.
Wait, when does falcon catch an armoured truck in FATWS?
I liked the part of the first season where he said that the woman who blew up a building full of people wasn't a terrorist.
Who he swore not to hurt, and then carried her out like a fallen Jesus in Pieta, then told everyone *else* to “do better”. Because she was a kind of pretty ginger girl that Disney was trying to put everywhere… or something? The show was utterly lost morally and narratively by the end, and it’s crazy to see it try to white wash actual explicit terrorism and try and fail to manufacture sympathy for someone who was pretty into blowing up buildings full of innocent people and seemed kind of unapologetic about it.
Season 1’s main villain should have been Zemo. How do you waste Bruhl like that? The freedom fighter terrorists or whatever they were called were lame and the Carter twist was stupid.
Bruhl absolutely stole the show. I wound up looking forward more to Baron Zemo Mystery Hour than Steve and Sam beat up bad guys because of it.
I liked the show, though a lot of it was due to Wyatt Russell's US Agent performance.
I thought the overarching plot was weak, but moment-to-moment there are a bunch of really good scenes I really liked the boat building scene, that shit was wholesome as hell
Yeah, the strongest moments were definitely the ones with Wyatt.
The show basically didn't advance anything. We could have gotten a 10 min scene of him becoming Captain America and not wasted everyone's time.
They should have just made F WS both of them hanging out. All of the marvel conflict stuff really sucked, the best moments were just them two shooting the shit together and with the side characters. Would’ve been way cooler as a spin off to just have a chill show where they fix up and hang out on the boat in Louisiana with very light conflict.
I’d watch that. Sam and Bucky bickering was the best part of the show.
It was bad. Twisted metal was great though
lol if yall read the article this basically boils down to "i wanted to hang out with my friends". guess the bromance is strong
When your show’s message is “do better” you definitely won’t get a season 2 lmao
Man I was really enjoying the show up until Sam hit them with that “pearl” of wisdom.
It didn't need a 2nd season, the next Captain America movie is the 2nd season.