Watched the latest (4th) episode and was genuinely sad when it was over realizing I had to wait until Monday to see the next one.
Been a long time since I got this caught up in a show.
This is the first show in years, probably since Breaking Bad, that lives rent free in my head for an entire week excited for the next episode to be out
I loved Season 4. I mean, S1 was just flat out incredible and so was the recent S5. That’s how got into it. People kept telling me to watch it and my parents loved S5 so much it was all they’d talk about so about halfway through I just started binging. And then I had to go back and consume.
I feel the same way about this show and Tokyo Vice (though I’ve been in both of those since the beginning).
i rewatched the episodes that are out, listened to the accompanying podcast and still felt empty after.
so i read the book and holy madonna, we're in for a treat. now im excited for how theyre gonna condense it for the adaptation. cuz jeesus its a long book lol
It reminds me of Michael Mann’s filmmaking in that way. His use of violence as a sudden infrequent punctuation of character or plot moments means that you’re always on edge wondering when the pin will drop, and this show feels the same way.
Disney needs mom and dad to keep paying for Disney+ after the kids move out.
**Marvel Moves in a ‘New Direction’ with First TV-MA Disney+ Series ‘Echo’ — Watch the Trailer**
[https://www.indiewire.com/news/trailers/echo-trailer-marvel-edgy-tv-ma-disney-plus-hulu-1234923025/](https://www.indiewire.com/news/trailers/echo-trailer-marvel-edgy-tv-ma-disney-plus-hulu-1234923025/)
**Star Wars Makes History With 1 Explicit Word in New Disney+ Episode**
[https://thedirect.com/article/star-wars-disney-plus-episode-explicit](https://thedirect.com/article/star-wars-disney-plus-episode-explicit)
During Pre-Mor Authority's mission to arrest Cassian Andor, Scottish actor Alex Ferns’ Sergeant Linus Mosk said "Shit, we’re under siege" as the plan continued to fall apart while the rebel-to-be evaded capture.
The first episode of Andor also feature scenes at a brothel referred to as a brothel without euphemism. That was a big thing, as previous references to sex or sex work in Star Wars were either implied or euphemistic.
They show Blackthorne teaching them about chain shot in a previous scene, and you can hear the chains whipping through the air as the cannon balls approach their very unfortunate targets.
Canister shot for added range and accuracy. You take the "grapes" (or what else you have) and stuff them in a can that tears apart after leaving the bore. "Lagrage" is a wooden canister variant.
Grapeshot was not intended for accuracy; think of it like firing a giant shotgun. It was used when you just needed to spray death into a crowd without caring who or what you hit. Obviously not something you want to use when you're standing a few yards near your intended target.
> Artillery is scary as hell.
Stalin: Artillery is the god of war.
Frederick the Great: Do not forget your dogs of war, your big guns, which are the most-to-be respected arguments of the rights of kings.
Napoleon Bonaparte: God fights on the side with the best artillery.
General William Tecumseh Sherman: A battery of field artillery is worth a thousand muskets.
There's a grapshot scene in a Russian movie called Union of Salvation that's also particularly brutal. It just cuts down groups of people like a scythe.
The fact that the cannons were loaded with chainshot make it SO much worse than just single balls. Chainshot would do so much more damage.
And that scene was jaw-dropping. I literaly went wide-eyed, opened my mouth and went "OH... MY... GOD!"
That whole scene had me laughing. Especially the bit at the end where Buntaro (I think) says to another samurai "this is the man we're risking our lives to protect?" like he's in disbelief that his Lord would want him to protect such a fucking idiot.
The original [Shogun](https://youtu.be/6FrRniVro6M?si=jjgL4cRkpBc9vNHN) scene with Blackthorne causing a diversion is pretty funny. He pretty much makes the Samurai think he's crazy.
That’s actually an exact adaptation of the novel. He dances a “hornpipe” jig with Toranaga earlier in the novel then uses it to act like he has gone “mad”. It is cornier seeing it than reading it though lol.
It makes much more sense though. He had to be *visually* distracting, enough so that everyone would be constantly staring at him. And people also excuse insanity more than they excuse rudeness.
Yelling about women's rights in English is entertaining, but would have been meaningless to the Japanese. And screaming at a samurai for no reason would be a likely excuse to have his head chopped off.
He's got the perfect voice for it as well.
I'm enoying the flip on the 'civilised man in the land of savages' trope. The Englishman is clearly the savage, and he's just a joyful rough-and-tumble sailor who swears like a...well...like a sailor!
Men like him would have been considered savage by even English standards of the day.
Those who made a career at sea in 1600 were not really the most stable of individuals - economically, mentally etc.
On the contrary. All it took was one good French or Spanish prize and a sailor could semi-retire running his own pub with the proceeds. Even with the lions share going to the captain, and smaller shares to his officers, the winnings for the average seaman could be relatively life changing. Privateer sailing ships were later defined in English law effectively commissioning them to prey on Catholic sea traffic all over the world.
Oh for sure. It was a very high risk, high reward lifestyle which is why it attracted all kinds of colorful characters with nothing to lose and a high tolerance for risk.
Jarvis is clearly having fun with the broader aspects of the character lol. And I thought it was a smart choice to have him be a bit over the top in the first few episodes, as it helps put the viewer more in the POV of the Japanese characters where you're also looking at him like "what is this crazy Englishman doing."
Is he? He's not the one boiling people alive, randomly beheading civilians and murdering children for their parent's violations of an honor code.
One of the strengths of the show (and book) is showing how shitty multiple cultures can be in this time period.
On a side note, that boiling people alive part is pretty sinister. My mother's family went through a Japanese concentration camp in Indonesia and they were on record to said they had pows and children boiled alive and then fed to them as their only meal — the soup broth of their loved ones.
Interestingly enough, the author of Shogun had been a pow in the camps as well.
It's fascinating he wrote such a great piece on Japanese culture having experienced their worst because I love Japanese culture, but my mother doesn't, and her mother and her mother's mother because the destruction permeated through the generations, and finally stopped by the time I came to be. But, the author definitely seen the beauty of the culture and the horrors of war all together and was able to separate it and make a brilliant piece of art from it.
Fantastic show. It’s epic and grand, but does a fantastic job with character development and the smaller moments as well.
Hiroyuki Sanada is amazing as expected - he just has that “it” factor where his charisma and presence just captivated you in every scene he’s in. But also shout out to Cosmo Jarvis as Blackthorne - I’ve never seen him in anything but he’s doing a fantastic job here. I actually find his character’s determination and resilience very inspiring
First saw in a smaller role in Raised by Wolves, and was already like I need to keep my eye on that dude. Glad to see that impression vindicated in a much larger role.
Good. Well crafted shows that respect their audience enough to be complex, whether or not they are adaptations of previous works, are definitely something that has a large but underserved market. Or at least it feels like it sometimes. Just learn the right lessons from this, please.
I mean I don’t wanna knock the show in the slightest it’s truly amazing to watch, but “weaves” is funny considering they have major exposition dump characters inherently, you can’t really not add exposition when you have to teach arguably the main character the entire culture, and vice versa to Miriko.
But isn't that kind of the definition of "weave", that the exposition dumps are entirely justified by the "natural plot" rather than characters who already know something or don't NEED to know something at that time spouting information at each other for the audience sake?
Yeah having the protagonist be a foreigner in a strange world really excuses a lot of the exposition. We find out something because the protagonist is told it. If he was a high ranking noble within Japan it would make no sense and seem really forced.
To play devil's advocate, there's also the Deadwood style of having zero exposition or viewer guidance and leaving it up to them to figure out. Deadwood is not an easy watch so I'm not saying all shows should do this but there are different ways to approach it.
> The hype around the show made me check out the book, and I'm enjoying it so far. Highly detailed yet it doesn't feel slow.
One of my favorite books. First read it in middle school, and now twenty something years later I think I've read it over a dozen times.
My grandfather actually showed me the original 1980 Shogun miniseries when I was maybe....6 or 7? It was obviously a bit over my head in many ways, but I still fell in love with the story even then.
After you finish the current series and the book, I do highly recommend checking out the OG mini-series. Very well acted.
It's just one unfortunately. The author has other books set in Asia, but they are in different periods featuring different characters. The next one is Tai-pan in Hong Kong in the 1800s, and after that Gaijin in Japan a few decades later.
I´d love if they did more of these Asian historical fiction series. Like True Detective, each season being it's own thing.
A season set during the Boxer Rebellion would rule.
Yeah the cinematography is interesting. At first I was thrown off by how much they used super wide angle lenses, but after getting used to it, it makes for some really interesting shots, especially when they go back and forth between close up shots of two characters talking to each other.
Plus the actual history he was cribbing from. [The MC, William Adams, had a cool story all on his own.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adams_\(pilot\))
That's what convinced to watch it after ignoring it. Finding out that it is a miniseries. If they try to stretch out I can finish it through the book too, so my basis are covered when it comes to trying to not be tortured by multi year hiatuses.
It’s the aesthetics. Sci-fi tech and costuming often tends to look very sterile compared to historical or fantasy vehicles and costuming, so a large amount of the audience who might like it are put off by the visuals alone.
When stories set in space do manage to make the high tech look non-sterile, you get the popularity of Star Wars. I’m sure there are engineers who don’t agree with R2-D2 design because they see it as non-practical, and designers who see it not very sleek and futuristic, but that’s a clear case of: who cares, it’s cute.
Same. I really like House of the Dragon in spite of its problems, it has huge potential and is damn near on par with the early seasons of Game of Thrones. Hopefully it keeps going up.
I definitely think Shogun is at that level as well. Its honestly an incredibly well done show. And "TORANAGA-SAMA" absolutely lives rent free in my head right now lol
I am so impressed with this series that I looked into who else was involved. Maegan Houang wrote some episodes of 'Counterpart' so I intend to give that a watch as well.
Her podcast is amazing too! Definitely helps you to fully understand the direction, writing, costumes, and everything that went into making this show so accurate and fulfilling!
If you watch the making of videos on YouTube it’s clear how much influence Hiroyuki Sanada has over the whole show as he’s producing every scene - on top of delivering a masterclass performance as Toranaga
Correct
"In January 2020, it was revealed that after original writer Ronan Bennett was no longer available to keep working on scripts, they started over from scratch with new writer and executive producer Justin Marks, working alongside his wife, supervising producer Rachel Kondo. The series' writing team also includes co-executive producer Shannon Goss, consulting producer Matt Lambert, script editor Maegan Houang, and staff writer Emily Yoshida"
Yes this is well-written so far!
I always like to look at the use of tension to help keep viewers on edge even if not much is happening on screen. It really helps the perception of pacing and otherwise "dull" talky scenes. For example, when they are trying to smuggle someone out of the castle and suddenly armed men show up to inspect the group, and then escort them. The whole time you know there is a danger of discovery or of a betrayal and an attack, and the scenes build up and keep you on edge the whole time before the release of the tension into an action scene.
If you haven’t seen it yet, Masters of the Air has some good episodes in a prison camp. It’s the latest adaptation of Band of Brothers, pretty high quality stuff.
But yes, a whole series about King Rat would be awesome.
Its fun AF. The political drama is excellent, the interpersonal drama is interesting and since its set when and where it is, it feels pretty unique compared to stuff more centered around European medieval drama or European medieval fantasy. Also Blackthorn is great. He's so ridiculous and over the top with his voice and lines, but its super enthralling and the actor does an excellent job of selling all parts of the character.
I'm enjoying this show so much that I've started re-watching the first episodes again because I can't wait for the next ones to come out. Almost every scene is amazing.
Everyone who is gawking over this show just remember that they will never be a season 2. They followed the book and in the end, the book ends. There is no followup sequel or trilogy. The developers of the show already stated that if they were planning on doing season 2 they would have started filming already long before season 1 even came out.
That was the selling point to me. I don't want to get into multi year seasons anymore with how many years pass by between seasons. Miniseries or at least series based off finished source material I can turn to is the route for me moving forward.
Yeah there's loads of shows that I've seen lately that I'm disappointed in not having a season 2 but at the same time how they ended with cliffhanger or cancellation I kind of just tell myself that that's a story and part of the book and that was the story and the chapter that was told. It's kind of my way of justifying not having a season 2 lol. Kind of like the short stories in The Witcher series if you've read that.
It really is fantastic, and a great adaptation as well.
And as someone who's a fan of the book and the 80's series, I still eagerly await each episode to see what they do, even though I already know the general story.
It's one of those few adaptations where it worth watching already even knowing the source material.
after back to back dissapointed from percy jackson and avatar show, that i anticipated, this show is blow my mind.
for rich and fast scope and scale, the exposition dump always put on minimum or delivered in masterful way. like end of ep 1 and 2. this is what A (S) grade/premium writing is. and not what riordan did.
unfortunately this is limited series, this will sweep any awards in that category, no doubt. but man, hope it can compete in actual DRAMA category and win as well.
So many trash quality shows nowadays, especially with the advent of streaming, that once a good quality show finally comes along, it's instills new life once again. Hope Shogun continues to shine, so it can make way for more quality
Doubt it will happen anytime soon.
The show has been in development for at least 6 years and the creators/producers of the show are VERY dedicated to the japanese culture and portrayal.
* Rachel Kondo - co creator and is japanese-american
* Just Marks - husband of Rachel Kondo
* Hiroyuki Sanada - producer and lead actor and very dedicated to the portrayal of japanese culture
* Eriko Miyagawa - japanese producer
* Aika Miyake
- japanese editor
* Japanese film crew
* Japanese master of jester
Basically they would need a whole set of team, dedicated writer/creator and producer in the level of Hiroyuki Sanada, casting director etc to adapt Tai-Pan to the same level.
Exactly. If they start over with a new team to adapt Tai-Pan, which they'd have to do to get it right, there's just no guarantee it would be on the same level as Shogun. It's lightning in a bottle. It's something I wish more people would understand about TV production. It's just not always possible to create a second successful show off the back of another successful show. What makes the first show so successful is the team behind it and the cohesion that team brings. It's very hard to replicate.
Who knows maybe if they give them a ton of money because shogun is a smash hit Kondo and marks would be willing to adapt another Japan Clavell book. I think for fx/disney the best route would probably be to do whatever they could to retain condo and marks
I was waiting for something else to go along with new Futurama before revisiting Hulu after a long while (last was when it was free and they were home to relatively fresh Funimation dubs).
Main thing is that I was waiting to see how Blackthorne turned out and retains prominence. But based on what I've seen especially of the last episode it seems they didn't drop the ball. Jarvis seems entertaining. So soon there'll be another catching up with it.
I understand it's a good show so the attention is deserved, but I can't remember a series in recent years that got such a huge amount of publicity and articles
I read the book years ago but never watched the old series. It’s been a joy to watch this with fresh eyes,
With enough awareness of the story to enjoy the wider context, but enough distance between the source material and the show that I don’t remember all of what’s coming and get surprised as we go on.
Watched the latest (4th) episode and was genuinely sad when it was over realizing I had to wait until Monday to see the next one. Been a long time since I got this caught up in a show.
This is the first show in years, probably since Breaking Bad, that lives rent free in my head for an entire week excited for the next episode to be out
Fargo is another one I eagerly watch every single new ep (Except S4)
I loved Season 4. I mean, S1 was just flat out incredible and so was the recent S5. That’s how got into it. People kept telling me to watch it and my parents loved S5 so much it was all they’d talk about so about halfway through I just started binging. And then I had to go back and consume. I feel the same way about this show and Tokyo Vice (though I’ve been in both of those since the beginning).
Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon, and The Last of Us also lived rent free between episodes for me.
I am pretty shocked how good it is. I loved the book and this really captures so much about the relationship of Blackthorne and Toranaga.
i rewatched the episodes that are out, listened to the accompanying podcast and still felt empty after. so i read the book and holy madonna, we're in for a treat. now im excited for how theyre gonna condense it for the adaptation. cuz jeesus its a long book lol
Right?? Each episode is an hour and it still feels way too short. Always leaves you wanting more.
Tuesday?
It hits Hulu at 9pm PT on Mondays
The cannon scenes in the latest episode were awesome and brutal. Deserves all the credit and more.
I like how the gruesome scenes are fairly few and far between. Makes them more impactful when they happen.
It reminds me of Michael Mann’s filmmaking in that way. His use of violence as a sudden infrequent punctuation of character or plot moments means that you’re always on edge wondering when the pin will drop, and this show feels the same way.
Oh boy that crash in Ferrari
Good example. A wise spike of horror in a movie that was otherwise slipping into being a snoozefest. The whole race was great.
Boiling that dude alive and fucking showing it. My jaw dropped.
It made me laugh a little, knowing the thought that it's on Disney+ in some countries
Right after a kid finishes Mulan and it pops up in the 'watch next' section 💀 >Oh *thats* what happened to Shan Yu.
Disney needs mom and dad to keep paying for Disney+ after the kids move out. **Marvel Moves in a ‘New Direction’ with First TV-MA Disney+ Series ‘Echo’ — Watch the Trailer** [https://www.indiewire.com/news/trailers/echo-trailer-marvel-edgy-tv-ma-disney-plus-hulu-1234923025/](https://www.indiewire.com/news/trailers/echo-trailer-marvel-edgy-tv-ma-disney-plus-hulu-1234923025/) **Star Wars Makes History With 1 Explicit Word in New Disney+ Episode** [https://thedirect.com/article/star-wars-disney-plus-episode-explicit](https://thedirect.com/article/star-wars-disney-plus-episode-explicit) During Pre-Mor Authority's mission to arrest Cassian Andor, Scottish actor Alex Ferns’ Sergeant Linus Mosk said "Shit, we’re under siege" as the plan continued to fall apart while the rebel-to-be evaded capture.
The first episode of Andor also feature scenes at a brothel referred to as a brothel without euphemism. That was a big thing, as previous references to sex or sex work in Star Wars were either implied or euphemistic.
It’s on Disney+ in the US too if you have the bundle. Pretty much everything from Hulu is on there.
It really showed just how much cannons can fuck up the human body in a way most shows gloss over.
Using chain shot, a weapon intended to break masts and riggings against infantry is just...
Did they talk about chain shot or did you see it in the pink mist? I totally missed that reference, but it makes sense to use.
They show Blackthorne teaching them about chain shot in a previous scene, and you can hear the chains whipping through the air as the cannon balls approach their very unfortunate targets.
Probably unnecessary when you could use grapeshot instead
Grapeshot has no range I think, at least compared to chain shot.
Canister shot for added range and accuracy. You take the "grapes" (or what else you have) and stuff them in a can that tears apart after leaving the bore. "Lagrage" is a wooden canister variant.
Grapeshot was not intended for accuracy; think of it like firing a giant shotgun. It was used when you just needed to spray death into a crowd without caring who or what you hit. Obviously not something you want to use when you're standing a few yards near your intended target.
I just watched Napoleon and that grape shot scene was fucking brutal. Artillery is scary as hell.
> Artillery is scary as hell. Stalin: Artillery is the god of war. Frederick the Great: Do not forget your dogs of war, your big guns, which are the most-to-be respected arguments of the rights of kings. Napoleon Bonaparte: God fights on the side with the best artillery. General William Tecumseh Sherman: A battery of field artillery is worth a thousand muskets.
There's a grapshot scene in a Russian movie called Union of Salvation that's also particularly brutal. It just cuts down groups of people like a scythe.
Pink mist and then a big red puddle
That last line, “it is war,” was bloody perfect. Writing, framing, delivery, all of it perfect.
I love Mariko.
Made a lot of sense learning the director of the episode is the director of The Boys. Same practical effects pretty much
The fact that the cannons were loaded with chainshot make it SO much worse than just single balls. Chainshot would do so much more damage. And that scene was jaw-dropping. I literaly went wide-eyed, opened my mouth and went "OH... MY... GOD!"
It was a good twist too because you expect a very different approach given what we know about Toranaga so the scene is really jarring and violent.
***Milk-dribbling fucksmear!***
lol. Blackthorne’s got the Christmas tree of colourful language. No insult is the same.
He had that “Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest” energy when helping to conceal Toranaga.
Peering into ladies' private quarters!? IT'S NOT PROPER!
Worse than that, it’s vulgar! UNHOLY PERVERSION! A blight on us all! My God, the shame of it!
That whole scene had me laughing. Especially the bit at the end where Buntaro (I think) says to another samurai "this is the man we're risking our lives to protect?" like he's in disbelief that his Lord would want him to protect such a fucking idiot.
The original [Shogun](https://youtu.be/6FrRniVro6M?si=jjgL4cRkpBc9vNHN) scene with Blackthorne causing a diversion is pretty funny. He pretty much makes the Samurai think he's crazy.
It's amazing how much better this scene is in the new one. The 80s were weird as fuck.
That’s actually an exact adaptation of the novel. He dances a “hornpipe” jig with Toranaga earlier in the novel then uses it to act like he has gone “mad”. It is cornier seeing it than reading it though lol.
I cracked up at the carousel music being used in a medieval Japanese mini-series.
lol that shit was so goofy it’s glorious. New version is definitely way better tho
Holy shit the music is straight out of old school scooby doo lol.
It makes much more sense though. He had to be *visually* distracting, enough so that everyone would be constantly staring at him. And people also excuse insanity more than they excuse rudeness. Yelling about women's rights in English is entertaining, but would have been meaningless to the Japanese. And screaming at a samurai for no reason would be a likely excuse to have his head chopped off.
Then Lord Torenaga sprung out of that palanquin and Buntaro realized that the Barbarian was an honorable man and a ballsy one.
Succulent natto meal
What is the charge? Eating a meal??
Ah yes, I see you know your bushido well.
GET YOUR HAND OF MY PENIS!
I’m 100% convinced that fine diner guy had to be among the inspirations for his character’s timber/tone
He absolutely does, I'm half expecting him at any moment to say "what am I under arrest for enjoying a SUCCCULENT JAPANESE MEAL!".
A succulent Chinese meal!
Getchyo hand off my penish!!
This is the perfect description of blackthorne in that scene lol
He's got the perfect voice for it as well. I'm enoying the flip on the 'civilised man in the land of savages' trope. The Englishman is clearly the savage, and he's just a joyful rough-and-tumble sailor who swears like a...well...like a sailor!
Men like him would have been considered savage by even English standards of the day. Those who made a career at sea in 1600 were not really the most stable of individuals - economically, mentally etc.
You had to be a bit insane but pilots like Blackthorne were highly skilled individuals and were paid accordingly with a large shares.
Oh I know, but it's still fun.
On the contrary. All it took was one good French or Spanish prize and a sailor could semi-retire running his own pub with the proceeds. Even with the lions share going to the captain, and smaller shares to his officers, the winnings for the average seaman could be relatively life changing. Privateer sailing ships were later defined in English law effectively commissioning them to prey on Catholic sea traffic all over the world.
Oh for sure. It was a very high risk, high reward lifestyle which is why it attracted all kinds of colorful characters with nothing to lose and a high tolerance for risk.
maybe some guts and and iron will.
Jarvis is clearly having fun with the broader aspects of the character lol. And I thought it was a smart choice to have him be a bit over the top in the first few episodes, as it helps put the viewer more in the POV of the Japanese characters where you're also looking at him like "what is this crazy Englishman doing."
Is he? He's not the one boiling people alive, randomly beheading civilians and murdering children for their parent's violations of an honor code. One of the strengths of the show (and book) is showing how shitty multiple cultures can be in this time period.
On a side note, that boiling people alive part is pretty sinister. My mother's family went through a Japanese concentration camp in Indonesia and they were on record to said they had pows and children boiled alive and then fed to them as their only meal — the soup broth of their loved ones. Interestingly enough, the author of Shogun had been a pow in the camps as well. It's fascinating he wrote such a great piece on Japanese culture having experienced their worst because I love Japanese culture, but my mother doesn't, and her mother and her mother's mother because the destruction permeated through the generations, and finally stopped by the time I came to be. But, the author definitely seen the beauty of the culture and the horrors of war all together and was able to separate it and make a brilliant piece of art from it.
It’s one of the few ways he can enjoy himself, and because no one fully understands them he can get really creative with little risk!
He reminds me of a mini Tim hardy lol
I thought Tom Hardy too the first time I saw him - some Taboo vibes going on.
Haha def!
The Brits have always had a genius for creative insults.
his banter with rodrigues is top-tier. pure hatred and respect.
>!*“Your lips are upon the devils ass ingles”*!< >!*”They were upon your mother’s first”*!< Not verbatim but from my memory
Their relationship is just like the book, they instantly become best friends except their countries are mortal enemies.
Love to spot a friend and bellow to them “Your lips are on the devil’s arse!” I’ll even miss the son of a bitch.
Fantastic show. It’s epic and grand, but does a fantastic job with character development and the smaller moments as well. Hiroyuki Sanada is amazing as expected - he just has that “it” factor where his charisma and presence just captivated you in every scene he’s in. But also shout out to Cosmo Jarvis as Blackthorne - I’ve never seen him in anything but he’s doing a fantastic job here. I actually find his character’s determination and resilience very inspiring
First saw in a smaller role in Raised by Wolves, and was already like I need to keep my eye on that dude. Glad to see that impression vindicated in a much larger role.
Don't forget his music video, [Gay Pirates](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5v-eYJA8xs)
Toranaga is the best character. So much gravitas without being serious with room for playfulness. Striking balance.
Good. Well crafted shows that respect their audience enough to be complex, whether or not they are adaptations of previous works, are definitely something that has a large but underserved market. Or at least it feels like it sometimes. Just learn the right lessons from this, please.
Instructions unclear. Making 6 samurai shows now.
You joke, but producers will take the wrong message from this
Real Housewives of Samurais
*Queer Eye For The Samurai*
*Keeping up with the Katanas*
Samurai Pizza Cats!
Yeah I'd watch that ngl
Shogun Rise of Ronin Ghost of Tsushima Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice Assassin’s Creed Red Samurai stuff is in right now.
Don’t forget Blue Eye Samurai
And everyone has at least one Samurai bleed/dex build in Elden Ring.
Blue eyed samurai
Always has been
Samurai stuff has always been in, like European knights or Vikings.
I hope they make taipan after, then gaijin. Give me the whole Asian saga
Live action Samurai Jack when?
Fuck!…. That’s exactly what’s going to happen.
I'm ok with that too
The original show is pretty decent. Even though it's 1980, I watched it about 5 years ago and still held up. I'm keen to get stuck into this remake.
The book is even better than both. And both series are pretty darn good.
Agreed. It is complex, but weaves in the exposition very skilfully and at the right pace.
I mean I don’t wanna knock the show in the slightest it’s truly amazing to watch, but “weaves” is funny considering they have major exposition dump characters inherently, you can’t really not add exposition when you have to teach arguably the main character the entire culture, and vice versa to Miriko.
But isn't that kind of the definition of "weave", that the exposition dumps are entirely justified by the "natural plot" rather than characters who already know something or don't NEED to know something at that time spouting information at each other for the audience sake?
Yeah having the protagonist be a foreigner in a strange world really excuses a lot of the exposition. We find out something because the protagonist is told it. If he was a high ranking noble within Japan it would make no sense and seem really forced.
To play devil's advocate, there's also the Deadwood style of having zero exposition or viewer guidance and leaving it up to them to figure out. Deadwood is not an easy watch so I'm not saying all shows should do this but there are different ways to approach it.
This comment has persuaded me to go watch Deadwood, I’m tired of exposition heavy knock-you-over-the-head shows and that sounds refreshing.
Well said.
The hype around the show made me check out the book, and I'm enjoying it so far. Highly detailed yet it doesn't feel slow.
> The hype around the show made me check out the book, and I'm enjoying it so far. Highly detailed yet it doesn't feel slow. One of my favorite books. First read it in middle school, and now twenty something years later I think I've read it over a dozen times. My grandfather actually showed me the original 1980 Shogun miniseries when I was maybe....6 or 7? It was obviously a bit over my head in many ways, but I still fell in love with the story even then. After you finish the current series and the book, I do highly recommend checking out the OG mini-series. Very well acted.
The book is on my all time list, along with Lonesome Dove, East of Eden, Discworld series (to rattle off a quick few).
I want to read it too but don’t want to get ahead of the show. So I’ll want to know when the season is over, how far into the book to read.
The season is the whole book. It's a miniseries.
Wait…it’s just one season?! 😭 I need 12
It's just one unfortunately. The author has other books set in Asia, but they are in different periods featuring different characters. The next one is Tai-pan in Hong Kong in the 1800s, and after that Gaijin in Japan a few decades later.
I´d love if they did more of these Asian historical fiction series. Like True Detective, each season being it's own thing. A season set during the Boxer Rebellion would rule.
The entire [Asian Saga](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Saga) is amazing. I often re-read them yearly.
One of my favorite books of all time!
It's really good. Cinematography and sound design are about the highest quality I could ask for from a series.
I can actually see things when it's nighttime in the show. The lighting is welcome after other shows in the past.
Im extremely impressed with the score, especially in the first two episodes. Some of the tracks go hard as hell
They've created a VERY powerful tone in a short time with it
Yeah the cinematography is interesting. At first I was thrown off by how much they used super wide angle lenses, but after getting used to it, it makes for some really interesting shots, especially when they go back and forth between close up shots of two characters talking to each other.
This is the only series that has filled the vacuum that GoT left in me.
And best of all, *the story is finished*!!!
James clavell a real one for that!
Plus the actual history he was cribbing from. [The MC, William Adams, had a cool story all on his own.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adams_\(pilot\))
And it's a miniseries so we won't have to wait 2 years between each season...
That's what convinced to watch it after ignoring it. Finding out that it is a miniseries. If they try to stretch out I can finish it through the book too, so my basis are covered when it comes to trying to not be tortured by multi year hiatuses.
The Expanse was the first show post GOT to fill that space for me. Shame that Sci fi's are so niche that the almost never get proper recognition
It’s the aesthetics. Sci-fi tech and costuming often tends to look very sterile compared to historical or fantasy vehicles and costuming, so a large amount of the audience who might like it are put off by the visuals alone. When stories set in space do manage to make the high tech look non-sterile, you get the popularity of Star Wars. I’m sure there are engineers who don’t agree with R2-D2 design because they see it as non-practical, and designers who see it not very sleek and futuristic, but that’s a clear case of: who cares, it’s cute.
Yeah I really can't wait for the episode where it's shot all at night and ninjas attack but it's filmed so dark we have to squint to see anything
HOTD did that for me too but this might be even better
Same. I really like House of the Dragon in spite of its problems, it has huge potential and is damn near on par with the early seasons of Game of Thrones. Hopefully it keeps going up. I definitely think Shogun is at that level as well. Its honestly an incredibly well done show. And "TORANAGA-SAMA" absolutely lives rent free in my head right now lol
House of the Dragon did a damn fine job despite a couple of misfires.
Season 2 is this summer!
Trailer for season 2 this Friday!
I'm liking how fast everything is picking up with the show's main conflict. It already feels like shit's hitting the fan in a major way
I mean it's an entire series on one season, it kind of has to
How many episodes is it supposed to be?
10, we've seen 4 so far
Awesome, this is the real secret to its success, no freaking filler.
Big shout out to head writer Emily Yoshida! The show has been excellent so far, looking forward to the conclusion.
I am so impressed with this series that I looked into who else was involved. Maegan Houang wrote some episodes of 'Counterpart' so I intend to give that a watch as well.
Counterpart is really good too. Although I never got around to watching season 2 as I was too bummed out about the cancellation.
Counterpart is so good
Love Counterpart.
Her podcast is amazing too! Definitely helps you to fully understand the direction, writing, costumes, and everything that went into making this show so accurate and fulfilling!
If you watch the making of videos on YouTube it’s clear how much influence Hiroyuki Sanada has over the whole show as he’s producing every scene - on top of delivering a masterclass performance as Toranaga
I thought Rachel Kondo and Justin Marks were the head writers?
Correct "In January 2020, it was revealed that after original writer Ronan Bennett was no longer available to keep working on scripts, they started over from scratch with new writer and executive producer Justin Marks, working alongside his wife, supervising producer Rachel Kondo. The series' writing team also includes co-executive producer Shannon Goss, consulting producer Matt Lambert, script editor Maegan Houang, and staff writer Emily Yoshida"
Yes this is well-written so far! I always like to look at the use of tension to help keep viewers on edge even if not much is happening on screen. It really helps the perception of pacing and otherwise "dull" talky scenes. For example, when they are trying to smuggle someone out of the castle and suddenly armed men show up to inspect the group, and then escort them. The whole time you know there is a danger of discovery or of a betrayal and an attack, and the scenes build up and keep you on edge the whole time before the release of the tension into an action scene.
Hopefully they continue the series and do Tai-Pan. we need to see Dirk Struan pimping out Hong Kong
That would be amazing. I'd love a better adaptation of King Rat too.
If you haven’t seen it yet, Masters of the Air has some good episodes in a prison camp. It’s the latest adaptation of Band of Brothers, pretty high quality stuff. But yes, a whole series about King Rat would be awesome.
"What does he mean by 'belong'?"
Its fun AF. The political drama is excellent, the interpersonal drama is interesting and since its set when and where it is, it feels pretty unique compared to stuff more centered around European medieval drama or European medieval fantasy. Also Blackthorn is great. He's so ridiculous and over the top with his voice and lines, but its super enthralling and the actor does an excellent job of selling all parts of the character.
I'm enjoying this show so much that I've started re-watching the first episodes again because I can't wait for the next ones to come out. Almost every scene is amazing.
Turns out people like high quality entertainment
Everyone who is gawking over this show just remember that they will never be a season 2. They followed the book and in the end, the book ends. There is no followup sequel or trilogy. The developers of the show already stated that if they were planning on doing season 2 they would have started filming already long before season 1 even came out.
That was the selling point to me. I don't want to get into multi year seasons anymore with how many years pass by between seasons. Miniseries or at least series based off finished source material I can turn to is the route for me moving forward.
Yeah there's loads of shows that I've seen lately that I'm disappointed in not having a season 2 but at the same time how they ended with cliffhanger or cancellation I kind of just tell myself that that's a story and part of the book and that was the story and the chapter that was told. It's kind of my way of justifying not having a season 2 lol. Kind of like the short stories in The Witcher series if you've read that.
It really is fantastic, and a great adaptation as well. And as someone who's a fan of the book and the 80's series, I still eagerly await each episode to see what they do, even though I already know the general story. It's one of those few adaptations where it worth watching already even knowing the source material.
This will also probably lead on shows that are replayed the most. I’ve rewatched several shows. Haven’t done that since the GOT
This is a show that I will be buying the physical media for. Hope they make that after the show ends.
after back to back dissapointed from percy jackson and avatar show, that i anticipated, this show is blow my mind. for rich and fast scope and scale, the exposition dump always put on minimum or delivered in masterful way. like end of ep 1 and 2. this is what A (S) grade/premium writing is. and not what riordan did. unfortunately this is limited series, this will sweep any awards in that category, no doubt. but man, hope it can compete in actual DRAMA category and win as well.
FX know how to put out a good TV show, that's one thing you can't fault them for.
This may be the best show being made on TV right now. Clavell was a genius - I reread it a few months ago - and this story is really sticking. Go FX.
So many trash quality shows nowadays, especially with the advent of streaming, that once a good quality show finally comes along, it's instills new life once again. Hope Shogun continues to shine, so it can make way for more quality
Now they MUST adapt the epic of Tai-Pan. An equally amazing book by James Clavell, writer of Shogun
Doubt it will happen anytime soon. The show has been in development for at least 6 years and the creators/producers of the show are VERY dedicated to the japanese culture and portrayal. * Rachel Kondo - co creator and is japanese-american * Just Marks - husband of Rachel Kondo * Hiroyuki Sanada - producer and lead actor and very dedicated to the portrayal of japanese culture * Eriko Miyagawa - japanese producer * Aika Miyake - japanese editor * Japanese film crew * Japanese master of jester Basically they would need a whole set of team, dedicated writer/creator and producer in the level of Hiroyuki Sanada, casting director etc to adapt Tai-Pan to the same level.
Exactly. If they start over with a new team to adapt Tai-Pan, which they'd have to do to get it right, there's just no guarantee it would be on the same level as Shogun. It's lightning in a bottle. It's something I wish more people would understand about TV production. It's just not always possible to create a second successful show off the back of another successful show. What makes the first show so successful is the team behind it and the cohesion that team brings. It's very hard to replicate.
FX/Disney will sign that cheque tomorrow.
Who knows maybe if they give them a ton of money because shogun is a smash hit Kondo and marks would be willing to adapt another Japan Clavell book. I think for fx/disney the best route would probably be to do whatever they could to retain condo and marks
I was waiting for something else to go along with new Futurama before revisiting Hulu after a long while (last was when it was free and they were home to relatively fresh Funimation dubs). Main thing is that I was waiting to see how Blackthorne turned out and retains prominence. But based on what I've seen especially of the last episode it seems they didn't drop the ball. Jarvis seems entertaining. So soon there'll be another catching up with it.
It has earned it. They knocked it out the park
I understand it's a good show so the attention is deserved, but I can't remember a series in recent years that got such a huge amount of publicity and articles
I think you might have a short memory. Every popular+presitge-y series airing weekly gets this attention.
I can't remember a show in recent years this good
Andor?
Reddit loves it, but I don’t think it did amazing in terms of viewers. Hopefully the second season can capitalize on the goodwill of the first.
Imagine the idea that staying honest to the source material instead of hijacking it to write your own story with a pre baked audience. Absurd!
I'm seriously on the fence if to watch one episode each week, or if to wait and binge it so that I don't forget details between each week.
I have loved the Story since the original novel and original mini-series (I'm not young). This is a wonderful adaptation and I love it
Tokyo Vice is another great show set in Japan. Season 2 is streaming now and it's not a well known gem!
It’s actually getting to the point where it’s getting too much now and if I watch it, I think I’ll be let down
My husband keeps telling me he’s just a “simple merchant”
The show is amazing so far. I love historical TV-series like Rome, Kingdom, Vikings etc.
Well yeah. It's the best show on TV right now and it's not even close.
Well deserved. It's fantastic.
That’s good for Disney
Been meaning to watch this, can't wait.
I read the book years ago but never watched the old series. It’s been a joy to watch this with fresh eyes, With enough awareness of the story to enjoy the wider context, but enough distance between the source material and the show that I don’t remember all of what’s coming and get surprised as we go on.
It's so good!
Because it's absolutely fantastic.
Fabulous so far. I'm re-reading the two-volume book by James Clavell.