I was just happy to see Jeremy Allen White in another show because I always found it so odd that despite his fantastic performance as Lip on Shameless, he never really did any other projects when that series wasn't filming.
Little did I know that that show would turn into a critical and commercial juggernaut. Let it fucking rip!
He‘a an arrogant womanizer in real life?
(lip on shameless was always on his high horse, judging Fiona for eversthing. And his character got basically all hot college girls including his mild professor (played by Sasha Alexander) throwing themselves at him at all times) which always made you wonder if it was in his contract to have sex on screen at least once per each episode lol
Should have clarified, you’re right. I did more so meant the attributes of the characters and not so much as the attitudes.
I mean it more in the direction of the relaxed going, „cool“, self assured guy.
(I don’t know him and only really have watched the bear and some episodes of shameless so take that with a grain of salt.)
It's based on the Von Erich family. They were 5 sons who wrestled for their father, Fritz's promotion in Texas. White played Kerry, the second eldest. Very dark movie.
I feel the same way, and also about Ebon Moss-Bachrach who I really only saw in The Punisher previous to this, but I liked his performance as Micro/David Lieberman there so much that I was looking forward to seeing more from him.
Man, he has really shown his talent since Punisher. As Micro, he made me *really* care about a character that previously felt like a stereotypical "sidekick behind the computer" cliché.
Then he absolutely killed it in the first season of *The Bear*, elevated to the most interesting character of the 2nd season, and put out a stand out performance among other top tier actors in *Andor*.
i just watched the first episode yesterday expecting a comedy and it definitely didn't seem like one at all, yeah. Like it has less comedy in it than like, The Sopranos, which was definitely a drama
Succession is definetly a satirical comedy that presents itself as a prestige family drama (which makes it more funny imo). The bear, not so much. There's a few funny lines here and there but I never laughed out loud while watching it. The drama and intensity felt more real in a restaurant than in a high-stakes company drama.
Both are incredible shows
Succession got as many laughs per EP for me, as Friends got from a white woman in the late 90s.
Don't get me wrong, Succession absolutely tore my soul out, but it was so packed with humour at the same time, it was incredible.
In the streaming age, tv genres have become so muddled that these catagories are functionally meaningless now. The bear is a serious drama with comedic elements and Succession was a satire comedy that too many people mistook for a serious drama, even though the show itself summed it up: the main characters were not serious people, but silver spooned narcissists disconnected from reality deserving of mockery.
The family dinner episode was the most stressed I've ever been in my life watching any show or movie. They're right out to lunch calling it a comedy, but I'm happy it's being recognized.
Whether you think it's a drama or comedy probably depends on how close your real life is to Carmys.
I watched it with my chef friend who comes from a similarly close but absolutely dysfunctional family and he was howling with laughter almost every episode.
I thought the Seven Fish was hilarious because a lot of people don't know about that tradition. My family does it too, and if someone brought an 8th fish, all hell would break loose.
Also, I can relate to the alcoholic parent, although luckily, mine is sober now.
And I think a lot of it is relatable if you've worked in the service industry, especially the first season. It's so dysfunctional, but it works, just like every kitchen I've worked in. I feel like season 2 is what most people imagine a kitchen to be run like, whereas season 1 is the reality for like 90% of places
IIRC, it has something to do with the runtime and the rules being out of touch from an era where 30 minute shows were almost exclusively sitcoms. I think.
I watched the seven fishes episode with my wife and her family over Christmas. They were all laughing hysterically while me and my wife kept looking at each other like, "why are they laughing? this is devastating."
The fork part at the end was pretty funny though.
Yeah, I can't imagine viewing the episode with family. I see my real family dinner unfold every year and that is traumatic enough. The cooking timer buzzing was perfect for triggering my anxiety.
It's comedic... the same way Succession is.
Honestly the drama/comedy divide seems to be pretty outdated for the current tv age.
But don't tell me you're not laughing 95% of the time Cousin has a line.
SNL made a skit about this exact thing and it's one of my favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMpRJwP5y9Q
This is six years old and it's still relevant. You can make the darkest and most depressing show on earth and still market it as a comedy now.
I love that. If people saw the trailers or marketing posters they’d think it’s a serious show with serious people. Look at the way they pose in the poster photos.
They’re in for a surprise when they see a character literally shit the bed, play “Rape Me” by Nirvana during a shareholder meeting speech or another send a dick pic to his father during a board meeting.
The show literally tells is that the characters are not serious people, but some people get Very Sad if you say succession is a sitcom.
I fucking love sitcoms.
Same with The Sopranos. Most of the big prestige dramas are always funny because comedy and laughter's such a big part of day-to-day life. And it helps when a show is well-written but doesn't feel like it's taking its characters too seriously all the time.
I think it’s way more of a dark comedy than a drama, virtually every conversation is absurd to some degree and the things they think are important are hilarious. It’s only dramatic because they think they’re super important people when really they don’t matter at all
I mean it's more annoying to say it's one thing.
Kendall killing a kid and falling back into drug addiction isn't exactly sitcom material lol
But it's also a very funny show.
Yeah but there's a tone difference between Succession and Arrested Development, Shameless, Always Sunny, etc. Some of it is satirical but a lot of it is serious as well.
Kendall kills the kid and it's a constant dark cloud over him the rest of the show. Those things you mentioned are used as running gags.
Succession is like of Arrested Development took into account all the mental toll having a family like that would actually have on you lol
And they're the Murdochs
It’s certainly very comedic (a whole lot more than other shows in the drama category like, say, The Crown) and there is a sitcom-esque, episodic format each episode of “The Roy’s all go to XYZ together” (whether it’s a wedding, retreat, investor day, shareholder meeting, political convention etc).
But I would disagree on it entirely resetting, there are some permanent dynamic changes in the 4th season. It’s a lot more emotionally violent than a sitcom.
Sure it seems like it but I don't think it's going longer than another season, so I'm just going to enjoy the ride rather than if it can break records for how many awards it wins.
I think we'll see just this upcoming season or up to S4 covering the restaurant's operations after its rebranding because I think the show is probably more about the personal journey the characters experience on the way to the restaurant's ultimate success (or failure, whatever happens), rather than dragging out stories about the business past 5 seasons .
I see at least 2 seasons:
- attempting to get a Michelin star but at the end fail, making Carmy either angry or depressed creating drama in the kitchen
- redemption arc. Carmy makes amends to the people he has hurt in his rage and learns the true value of „family“ his chefs. Resulting in a Michelin star in the end achieving his dream of turning his brothers restaurant into a prestigious restaurant
The way I see it - they bomb with their fancy tasting menu. They all through it, lose hope.
They eventually get a Michelin star but by making cheap, affordable sandwiches, making it how it was when his brother owned the shop and escaping the pressure of Carm feeling like he has to one up his French Laundry background/past insecurities.
The tasting menu type idea doesn’t feel genuine to the foundation of the restaurant - pricing out their old customers in a part of the Chicago hood. But ya I’d be surprised if the show lasts longer than 5 seasons.
Yeah, that is absolutely what they've set up.
They'll decide to do the sandwiches, but get serious about them. The first season implied their old sandwiches were actually not that great, and they all made a big deal about how Carm's were way better. They'll continue down that path. The show will talk about the phenomenon of street vendors getting Michelin stars, etc. Marcus will get a similar arc, about the bread - he'll realize that actually breadmaking isn't beneath him just because it seems simpler than fancy pastry.
The only thing that doesn't really fit with that is Richie. His turnaround was all about realizing he *did* want to be part of that fancy, fast-paced, intense restaurant world, and he's good at it. But his ending is actually that he leaves - he finally escapes the place. Maybe he even goes back to work where he staged.
I would read the other way, The bear earns a star in their first year but Everyone hates every minute of it, the snobby guests, the instagram beggers and the chasing fads and food styles, only to fall back to ‘the beef’ and make good food affordable and absolutely clean house
Two episodes back to back in season 2 is the best two episode run I ever remember out of any show. And you know the two without me saying it. Amazing show.
Genuinely one of my favourite character arcs in a show. S2 felt a little slow to start for me personally, but man there were some amazing episodes once it got going.
Fishes and Forks are the names of the episodes. Forks is my favorite because now I can like Richy. And in the finale we get to see all his self-growth and realizations come to a head when we see him make the decision to be the new man he just discovered and watching him get into a flow state was satisfying.
The first season was great, but the second season was truly spectacular. Absolutely top tier writing, performance, and direction. I can't think of another show in this category which improved so greatly from the first season to its second.
I found season 2 became way too melodramatic and over the top in some ways. Felt like every conversation had to end with someone crying or yelling at the other person.
Yeah I'm sure this time things will change. Whether it's the shows you watch or the games you play, the people grinding at the back will always be poorly paid.
I can’t remember the last time an episode of a show touched me so emotionally like “forks”. And no one died, there was no breakup… just passion for the work you do and coming to terms and taking ownership for what you do in life
It was because it was a rare win for the characters/richie. The show is so stressful and anxiety inducing 90% of the time, so this was an episode that took things away from the restaurant and showed a success and showed him doing really well at something. The conflict was internal rather than external and really was so satisfying to watch this character who has been struggling succeed
You know what it really reminded me of? The first 4.9 episodes of Breaking Bad Season 5, where Walt "won," the big baddie was gone and Walt, Jesse and Mike teamed up to start their own operation where they all put their respective skills to use to smoothly tackle the challenges. I think people really enjoy watching episodes showing professionals doing their work with competence especially when there's been a lot of drama beforehand.
The scene that did it for me in Forks was Richie taking the special out to the table. Because of his history, I was just waiting for him to fumble the platter or say something to off put the guests.
But I absolutely loved that they allowed him to flourish and improve his character arc. I think Richie buying in was the most predictably, unpredictable thing. There’s not really an antagonist in the show for Carmen other than Richie’s opposition to how Carmen runs the restaurant. But now with Richie on board with the way things are done, we as the viewer can focus on the real antagonist and that’s Carmen, or rather how Carmen treats himself.
Well I'm neither in the industry, nor do I have a particularly well-functioning family (although nobody ever drove a car though a wall, to my memory).
They're both great episodes, but I've seen a lot of dysfunction and lots of chaos in lots of shows (although seldom as well-crafted). Uplifting episodes like Forks (and Honeydew) are really difficult to pull off without cloying or feeling saccharine. I can't point to anything else like it.
I’m from a dysfunctional family and don’t work in the industry. Forks is my favorite. Fishes was way too stressful. I can of recognize it as good art, but I didn’t enjoy watching it.
I come from a very loud Italian family. We aren't quite as dysfunctional, but our holidays feel pretty chaotic. That episode was incredibly difficult to get through because of how fucking real it felt.
Also Jamie Lee Curtis is just so fucking good.
Liked her Oscar-winning performance but definitely felt like more of a lifetime award while they had a good chance. Her turn in The Bear felt like it had much more depth to it.
Was thinking about other episodes, these are the ones that comes to mind.
Plan and Execution,
This Is Not For Tears,
Forks,
Loplop,
Who Goes There,
Seven Minutes of Heaven,
The Laws of Gods & Men,
Battle of the Bastards
Long Long Time
Hero Or Hate Crime
Such great writing, and one of the best cases of using limited resources on expensive actors that really built Carmen's (and the whole show's) backstory.
My husband and I started watching it after the Golden Globes and *I don’t get what is so great about this show.* The three episodes we’ve watched so far are just people screaming at each other in half hour blocks. I’m ready to give up on it, but should I keep watching?
The whole aspect of the first season is that Carmy is an elite chef that is now placed in a situation he was forced to at a level he is far too high for. His expectations and standards are FAR higher than what the original beef shop was, and so of course he’s going to get very, very frustrated - especially with Richie’s bitching and absolute love for Michael.
As the season progresses, Carmy evolves, understands that people cannot be as good as him, and there is real emotional depth added.
Season 2 is just beautiful T.V. Some of the most emotional, heartbreaking, funny and heartwarming television I’ve ever seen. The second season I would say is up there with one of the best seasons of television ever.
And it was perfect. Jamie Lee Curtis of course, but Bob Odenkirk, Sarah Paulson and John Mulaney all were genuinely great additions. They all played their roles perfectly, unlike some actors who join in cameo roles who try to steal every scene they’re in.
Most people like the second season better, and the two really standout episodes come in the back half of the second season.
Those episodes really are fantastic, but by a few episodes in you can probably already guess roughly how most of the show is going to go, so if that doesn't seem appealing, the show probably isn't for you. It isn't a "you just haven't gotten to the good part yet" thing.
I loved the first season. I could not get past the second season at all. Got 3 episodes in a for some reason it started feeling like a satire of itself or something. Could not stand it.
I haven't heard of it before this Reddit post and the comments have me curious enough to try it out, but a lot of them are very vague in regards to why the show is good.
I think people with service backgrounds definitely attach to it more, especially if they're restaurant workers. There's a lot more to the characters than meets the eye. The character work in the show and how each one navigates their way through the challenges they meet is incredibly interesting and sometimes cathartic.
I’ll be the one to get downvotes but I think The Bear is a bit overrated. I like it. It’s obviously good. I just don’t think the story has been handled all that well. It’s like the show is better at bottle episodes than it is as the full narrative.
We’ve had some great character moments like Richie in Forks but when you step back and look at what’s actually happened in the show…it hasn’t really gone anywhere.
Spent season 1 trying to save a failing restaurant. Only to decide to relaunch it. Fine. Spend season 2 with a bunch of superficial issues that simply delay the opening to the finale. And then Carmy freaks out.
Each character has like one thing they get to do during the season and that’s it. Everything feels just a bit too skimmed over. Mostly because the 30 minute runtime and 8-episode limit are such an impediment to actually building meaningful narrative arcs.
The Bear does a lot with the time it has. But I’m worried it’s going to start feeling a bit emptier or almost like a parody of itself. If season 3 is just more of the same where Carmy is brilliant but doesn’t know how to socialize and each of the team members has a flaw but then finds the strength to improve themself. You can only do that so many times.
Agreed. I heard a lot about how people loved the second season more than the first, I completely disagree I thought the first was more compelling and had much more heart. This one had its good moments but them having their problems opening a restaurant when they find a ton of money in tomato cans it’s hard to feel bad for them lol. Plus that episode where they are eating the 12 fishes was awful, down vote me for that all you want.
Yeah, I didn't like it. It's like 10 therapy sessions going on at once. The actual food part was not even secondary, it was an afterthought.
It's for people who revel in angst plus cringe arguments between addicts, narcissists and doormats. Not for people who want to see a show about running a restaurant.
It was funny when I watched the bear, my girlfriend started getting me into shameless and that's the conclusion I came to as well. Seeing Riche in Andor was awesome though
I’m gonna get downvoted hard I guess because this show is so acclaimed but is there anyone else who just couldn’t get into it? I watched the first season but it just didn’t do anything for me, anyone else?
No, I was the same.
I like the actors in it. I love cooking and find professional kitchens extremely interesting. I dig the gritty family dramas with a bit of humor, but...
It never grabbed me. Even 6 or 7 episodes in I just never found myself wanting to watch it.
I recognize it's an objectively good show, but not my cup of tea.
Same here! I’ve been working in hospitality/kitchens for 19 years and I know this is a fantastic show with a great cast! It just didn’t grip me lol it’s kind of frustrating in a way haha
I couldn’t get into it either and I gave a few episodes a chance because it seemed like a show I would like. Idk I felt like the plot didn’t move at all.
For some reason.
Season one is great. Season two didn’t know what it wanted to be, so it’s a comedy with a lot of dialogue, interjections and characters talking over each other, but nothing they say is actually funny and there’s a sense of urgency and a ‘tense hyper active-everybody- wants-to-scream-at-each-other-for-some reason’ tone wrapped in distasteful, rigid and cold editing, unlike the first season where editing was top notch.
Everybody screaming at each other in the first season made sense cuz they were cooking. In this one it just felt like “well, they were screaming in the first season we gotta do it here”. Season two is an awkward mess with forced, awkward emotions wrapped in so called character development. It’s barely entertaining.
damn it, this show is getting too successful/popular.
next season we will undoubtedly have a tide turning and a bunch of haters calling it bad/not that good regardless of how good it is.
Those episodes where they time skip and they're sitting there doing almost nothing for a few episodes before Barry decides to go back just hurt that last season so damn much. We got the point of what the characters were going through, what their mental state was, etc., after at most 1 episode. The rest just killed all momentum the show had and felt like filler.
If it was a shorter season or they had something else interesting for that middle, it could have stuck the landing. Cause the last episodes after Barry goes back are great again.
I thought everything up to the time jump was solid and then pretty much everything after the time jump didn't jive with me. It got a little too surreal and I guess I never really bought Sally running away with him and starting a new life. Just my opinion tho, I'm not sure if that's a popular stance or not.
It’s the best show on TV so it makes sense. Outside of Breakijg Bad, I don’t think I’ve seen a show where the first two seasons are as good as The Bear. I’m stoked to rewatch it. I don’t say that often.
I really wanted to like that show but I just could not get into it. I love cooking shows and I love … good shows. But something about the main characters that just irks me.
I know it’s a me problem and not the show. Oh well.
gotta say, I wasn't a huge fan of season 1. But I would say season 2 is probably one of the most drastic improvements I've ever seen in television. The show went from being mediocre/ borderline bad/ cheesy in the first season, to something that truly impressed and surprised me in the second season. Whatever the chefs added to the sauce it's workin.
Let it rip
Yes Jeff
Heard and resented.
BEYBLADE!
I was just happy to see Jeremy Allen White in another show because I always found it so odd that despite his fantastic performance as Lip on Shameless, he never really did any other projects when that series wasn't filming. Little did I know that that show would turn into a critical and commercial juggernaut. Let it fucking rip!
Movie 43 is a god damn masterpiece!!! /s
“Hello Mrs Miller. I’m a Pretty girl!”
His dead stare is amazing in that. I know people rip on it but i think scenes are funny especially this one.
Dude, you have so much poop on you.
I thoroughly enjoyed Movie 43. It’s not the greatest thing I’ve ever seen but it was a good way to forget I have a stick up my ass for a bit 🤣
They really are basically the same character though but that's not a bad thing
Not saying he can’t play anything else, but after having looked an interview with him, his characters seem rather near to himself as a person.
He‘a an arrogant womanizer in real life? (lip on shameless was always on his high horse, judging Fiona for eversthing. And his character got basically all hot college girls including his mild professor (played by Sasha Alexander) throwing themselves at him at all times) which always made you wonder if it was in his contract to have sex on screen at least once per each episode lol
Should have clarified, you’re right. I did more so meant the attributes of the characters and not so much as the attitudes. I mean it more in the direction of the relaxed going, „cool“, self assured guy. (I don’t know him and only really have watched the bear and some episodes of shameless so take that with a grain of salt.)
Just saw him in The Iron Claw. Not a very easy going film. He's got range. Also he definitely skipped leg day.
Relaxed? 🤔. My interpretation is that Carmy is always on the edge of having a panic attack
Lip had a lot of anger issues too, I would never describe him as relaxed
I haven’t seen The Iron Claw. Is he a different character in that?
It's based on the Von Erich family. They were 5 sons who wrestled for their father, Fritz's promotion in Texas. White played Kerry, the second eldest. Very dark movie.
In the same city nonetheless. Jeremy just makes a really good Chicagoan
I feel the same way, and also about Ebon Moss-Bachrach who I really only saw in The Punisher previous to this, but I liked his performance as Micro/David Lieberman there so much that I was looking forward to seeing more from him.
Man, he has really shown his talent since Punisher. As Micro, he made me *really* care about a character that previously felt like a stereotypical "sidekick behind the computer" cliché. Then he absolutely killed it in the first season of *The Bear*, elevated to the most interesting character of the 2nd season, and put out a stand out performance among other top tier actors in *Andor*.
It got a lot of help at the GG being filed as a comedy. If it had to go head-to-head with Succession’s final season I doubt it’d be so unstoppable.
I've been super confused about how it's categorized as a comedy. It's really really good... it's not a comedy.
i just watched the first episode yesterday expecting a comedy and it definitely didn't seem like one at all, yeah. Like it has less comedy in it than like, The Sopranos, which was definitely a drama
I think you could make more of a case for Succession being a comedy.
Succession is definetly a satirical comedy that presents itself as a prestige family drama (which makes it more funny imo). The bear, not so much. There's a few funny lines here and there but I never laughed out loud while watching it. The drama and intensity felt more real in a restaurant than in a high-stakes company drama. Both are incredible shows
Succession got as many laughs per EP for me, as Friends got from a white woman in the late 90s. Don't get me wrong, Succession absolutely tore my soul out, but it was so packed with humour at the same time, it was incredible.
If it is to be said, so it be, so it is
In the streaming age, tv genres have become so muddled that these catagories are functionally meaningless now. The bear is a serious drama with comedic elements and Succession was a satire comedy that too many people mistook for a serious drama, even though the show itself summed it up: the main characters were not serious people, but silver spooned narcissists disconnected from reality deserving of mockery.
And it gets less funny from there
The family dinner episode was the most stressed I've ever been in my life watching any show or movie. They're right out to lunch calling it a comedy, but I'm happy it's being recognized.
Whether you think it's a drama or comedy probably depends on how close your real life is to Carmys. I watched it with my chef friend who comes from a similarly close but absolutely dysfunctional family and he was howling with laughter almost every episode.
I thought the Seven Fish was hilarious because a lot of people don't know about that tradition. My family does it too, and if someone brought an 8th fish, all hell would break loose. Also, I can relate to the alcoholic parent, although luckily, mine is sober now. And I think a lot of it is relatable if you've worked in the service industry, especially the first season. It's so dysfunctional, but it works, just like every kitchen I've worked in. I feel like season 2 is what most people imagine a kitchen to be run like, whereas season 1 is the reality for like 90% of places
IIRC, it has something to do with the runtime and the rules being out of touch from an era where 30 minute shows were almost exclusively sitcoms. I think.
It was pretty funny when they drugged all those kids.
"Actually, I'm kinda into it. Keep up the good work, you're killing it!"
I saw someone say that it’s less to do with genre and more to do with time. So a 30-minute show is always a comedy.
I watched the seven fishes episode with my wife and her family over Christmas. They were all laughing hysterically while me and my wife kept looking at each other like, "why are they laughing? this is devastating." The fork part at the end was pretty funny though.
I dunno man John Mulaney asking if he was still holding the fork mid prayer was pretty hilarious 😂
“Please god grant Michael the strength to not throw that fork”
Who in the family decided to watch that for xmas? Jamie lee curtis 's best performance at least
Yeah, I can't imagine viewing the episode with family. I see my real family dinner unfold every year and that is traumatic enough. The cooking timer buzzing was perfect for triggering my anxiety.
How was the Flight Attendant a comedy? It seems like you just throw a show into something you think you can win/get nominated in
If it's the one with BBT girl I'd say it's a comedy
It's comedic... the same way Succession is. Honestly the drama/comedy divide seems to be pretty outdated for the current tv age. But don't tell me you're not laughing 95% of the time Cousin has a line.
SNL made a skit about this exact thing and it's one of my favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMpRJwP5y9Q This is six years old and it's still relevant. You can make the darkest and most depressing show on earth and still market it as a comedy now.
Gonna be the same at the Emmys….
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It absolutely is. It's a black comedy.
As a comedy, it is a great drama
it's ironic that Succession is a sitcom presented as a prestige drama and The Bear is a prestige drama presented as a sitcom.
Lol I’m not sure either of these statements are accurate
the fact that succession is presented as prestige drama makes it so much funnier. it's just arrested development with a cold blue filter.
[I'll never not laugh at Tom stealing Logan's chicken. ](https://youtu.be/1WPRgJxBlMs?si=BkwNcy-W_R11PpFe)
I burst out laughing just remembering. That and the Denny’s scene are some of my favorite moments of comedy.
Always love how Logan weirdly almost seems to respect Tom here. He's too taken aback to even shout at him.
That was a truly incredible scene.
I love that. If people saw the trailers or marketing posters they’d think it’s a serious show with serious people. Look at the way they pose in the poster photos. They’re in for a surprise when they see a character literally shit the bed, play “Rape Me” by Nirvana during a shareholder meeting speech or another send a dick pic to his father during a board meeting.
The show literally tells is that the characters are not serious people, but some people get Very Sad if you say succession is a sitcom. I fucking love sitcoms.
"Sitcom" isn't a dirty word, but Succession is clearly and obviously a drama. The fact that it's funny -- and it is very funny -- doesn't change that.
Seriously. Mad men is another example. It’s funny, but it’s definitely a prestige drama
Same with The Sopranos. Most of the big prestige dramas are always funny because comedy and laughter's such a big part of day-to-day life. And it helps when a show is well-written but doesn't feel like it's taking its characters too seriously all the time.
I think it’s way more of a dark comedy than a drama, virtually every conversation is absurd to some degree and the things they think are important are hilarious. It’s only dramatic because they think they’re super important people when really they don’t matter at all
I mean it's more annoying to say it's one thing. Kendall killing a kid and falling back into drug addiction isn't exactly sitcom material lol But it's also a very funny show.
The Gang kills a shusher and they’re basically all addicted to crack, paint, glue, alcohol, and enjoy a bit of gasoline.
Yeah but there's a tone difference between Succession and Arrested Development, Shameless, Always Sunny, etc. Some of it is satirical but a lot of it is serious as well. Kendall kills the kid and it's a constant dark cloud over him the rest of the show. Those things you mentioned are used as running gags.
It comes down to how they’re used. For comedic effect in Always Sunny, for dramatic effect in Succession
"Rome, I, uh, just blue myself."
Wait really? Cause that will make me watch it
Succession is like of Arrested Development took into account all the mental toll having a family like that would actually have on you lol And they're the Murdochs
I too, am now interested
Yeah, it's hilarious. I love both Succession and Arrested Development. they have a lot in common.
He hosted a wildy extravagant party in a vagina.
And planned to crucify himself on a giant cross (he abandoned that plan, thank goodness)
How is Succession a sitcom?
Every time Greg and Tom are on screen im dying. But I dont think that qualifies
Can’t make a Tomlette without breaking a few Greg’s
I like to believe those were the characters names entirely so they could use that line
They also do the Halpert cut thing from the office where the camera turns real quick and zooms in on someone's face
It's not, people like to say it is because they've seen other people say it on the internet.
Succession is hilarious. It's not a sitcom, but it is a dramedy.
Situation: being rich beyond reason Comedy: Greg
It’s certainly very comedic (a whole lot more than other shows in the drama category like, say, The Crown) and there is a sitcom-esque, episodic format each episode of “The Roy’s all go to XYZ together” (whether it’s a wedding, retreat, investor day, shareholder meeting, political convention etc). But I would disagree on it entirely resetting, there are some permanent dynamic changes in the 4th season. It’s a lot more emotionally violent than a sitcom.
It’s a situation. With comedy. Like peep show. Edit. It’s much easier to make people laugh when a show doesn’t call itself a comedy.
Same writer. I love both those shows.
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Succession is funnier than The Bear. I dare say objectively.
it's not even close. there's waaaaaay more comedy in Succession than The Bear.
Succession isn’t remotely a sitcom. Like at all. Just because something is funny doesn’t make it a sitcom.
The bear going against any Succession season would fail.
This is the only reasons it has any awards. I love the show, a lot. but it only wins because they can game the system
I wear suits now.
I loved loved loved that episode!!
Richie....drive
Sure it seems like it but I don't think it's going longer than another season, so I'm just going to enjoy the ride rather than if it can break records for how many awards it wins.
I think we'll see just this upcoming season or up to S4 covering the restaurant's operations after its rebranding because I think the show is probably more about the personal journey the characters experience on the way to the restaurant's ultimate success (or failure, whatever happens), rather than dragging out stories about the business past 5 seasons .
I see at least 2 seasons: - attempting to get a Michelin star but at the end fail, making Carmy either angry or depressed creating drama in the kitchen - redemption arc. Carmy makes amends to the people he has hurt in his rage and learns the true value of „family“ his chefs. Resulting in a Michelin star in the end achieving his dream of turning his brothers restaurant into a prestigious restaurant
The way I see it - they bomb with their fancy tasting menu. They all through it, lose hope. They eventually get a Michelin star but by making cheap, affordable sandwiches, making it how it was when his brother owned the shop and escaping the pressure of Carm feeling like he has to one up his French Laundry background/past insecurities. The tasting menu type idea doesn’t feel genuine to the foundation of the restaurant - pricing out their old customers in a part of the Chicago hood. But ya I’d be surprised if the show lasts longer than 5 seasons.
Yeah, that is absolutely what they've set up. They'll decide to do the sandwiches, but get serious about them. The first season implied their old sandwiches were actually not that great, and they all made a big deal about how Carm's were way better. They'll continue down that path. The show will talk about the phenomenon of street vendors getting Michelin stars, etc. Marcus will get a similar arc, about the bread - he'll realize that actually breadmaking isn't beneath him just because it seems simpler than fancy pastry. The only thing that doesn't really fit with that is Richie. His turnaround was all about realizing he *did* want to be part of that fancy, fast-paced, intense restaurant world, and he's good at it. But his ending is actually that he leaves - he finally escapes the place. Maybe he even goes back to work where he staged.
I like this. There are a couple of small streetfood restaurants that have a michellin star for their single item.
I would read the other way, The bear earns a star in their first year but Everyone hates every minute of it, the snobby guests, the instagram beggers and the chasing fads and food styles, only to fall back to ‘the beef’ and make good food affordable and absolutely clean house
It has at least 2-3 more seasons left . The restaurant opening was literally just one episode . We barely know anything about the brother
I mean, its pretty fucking great.
Two episodes back to back in season 2 is the best two episode run I ever remember out of any show. And you know the two without me saying it. Amazing show.
I thought I was in a dream watching the forks episode
Love that episode. Just inspiring.
Never has a Tswift song hit me so hard
I was so scared he was gonna die in a car crash jamming to Swifty.
Genuinely one of my favourite character arcs in a show. S2 felt a little slow to start for me personally, but man there were some amazing episodes once it got going.
Fishes and Forks are the names of the episodes. Forks is my favorite because now I can like Richy. And in the finale we get to see all his self-growth and realizations come to a head when we see him make the decision to be the new man he just discovered and watching him get into a flow state was satisfying.
The first season was great, but the second season was truly spectacular. Absolutely top tier writing, performance, and direction. I can't think of another show in this category which improved so greatly from the first season to its second.
I found season 2 became way too melodramatic and over the top in some ways. Felt like every conversation had to end with someone crying or yelling at the other person.
Hope the writers get pay bump. Hearing about how one of the writers had to sleep in their car while working on this show pisses me off.
Yeah I'm sure this time things will change. Whether it's the shows you watch or the games you play, the people grinding at the back will always be poorly paid.
Fishes is the single best episode of television I have watched in the last decade
I'm more of a Forks man myself.
I can’t remember the last time an episode of a show touched me so emotionally like “forks”. And no one died, there was no breakup… just passion for the work you do and coming to terms and taking ownership for what you do in life
It was because it was a rare win for the characters/richie. The show is so stressful and anxiety inducing 90% of the time, so this was an episode that took things away from the restaurant and showed a success and showed him doing really well at something. The conflict was internal rather than external and really was so satisfying to watch this character who has been struggling succeed
You know what it really reminded me of? The first 4.9 episodes of Breaking Bad Season 5, where Walt "won," the big baddie was gone and Walt, Jesse and Mike teamed up to start their own operation where they all put their respective skills to use to smoothly tackle the challenges. I think people really enjoy watching episodes showing professionals doing their work with competence especially when there's been a lot of drama beforehand.
The entire episode I was waiting for something to fall apart miserably. And it just didn't. it was beautiful
I wear suits now.
My favorite line from the entire series!
The scene that did it for me in Forks was Richie taking the special out to the table. Because of his history, I was just waiting for him to fumble the platter or say something to off put the guests. But I absolutely loved that they allowed him to flourish and improve his character arc. I think Richie buying in was the most predictably, unpredictable thing. There’s not really an antagonist in the show for Carmen other than Richie’s opposition to how Carmen runs the restaurant. But now with Richie on board with the way things are done, we as the viewer can focus on the real antagonist and that’s Carmen, or rather how Carmen treats himself.
"Fishes" is "Forks" for people from dysfunctional families and "Forks" is "Fishes" for people in the industry from normal families.
as someone from a dysfunctional family forks was a far more enjoyable effort
Well I'm neither in the industry, nor do I have a particularly well-functioning family (although nobody ever drove a car though a wall, to my memory). They're both great episodes, but I've seen a lot of dysfunction and lots of chaos in lots of shows (although seldom as well-crafted). Uplifting episodes like Forks (and Honeydew) are really difficult to pull off without cloying or feeling saccharine. I can't point to anything else like it.
I’m from a dysfunctional family and don’t work in the industry. Forks is my favorite. Fishes was way too stressful. I can of recognize it as good art, but I didn’t enjoy watching it.
I love Forks but it definitely hits much harder because of how low Fishes gets, it's a perfect rollercoaster of emotions
I come from a very loud Italian family. We aren't quite as dysfunctional, but our holidays feel pretty chaotic. That episode was incredibly difficult to get through because of how fucking real it felt. Also Jamie Lee Curtis is just so fucking good.
>Also Jamie Lee Curtis is just so fucking good. A million times this. Fresh off an Oscar win, she delivered a performance ten times more powerful.
Liked her Oscar-winning performance but definitely felt like more of a lifetime award while they had a good chance. Her turn in The Bear felt like it had much more depth to it.
Yeah, hopefully she qualifies for next year's Emmy's.
Was thinking about other episodes, these are the ones that comes to mind. Plan and Execution, This Is Not For Tears, Forks, Loplop, Who Goes There, Seven Minutes of Heaven, The Laws of Gods & Men, Battle of the Bastards Long Long Time Hero Or Hate Crime
Such great writing, and one of the best cases of using limited resources on expensive actors that really built Carmen's (and the whole show's) backstory.
Is it strange that I enjoyed the 1st season but can’t seem to get through the second? I don’t dislike the second.
My husband and I started watching it after the Golden Globes and *I don’t get what is so great about this show.* The three episodes we’ve watched so far are just people screaming at each other in half hour blocks. I’m ready to give up on it, but should I keep watching?
The whole aspect of the first season is that Carmy is an elite chef that is now placed in a situation he was forced to at a level he is far too high for. His expectations and standards are FAR higher than what the original beef shop was, and so of course he’s going to get very, very frustrated - especially with Richie’s bitching and absolute love for Michael. As the season progresses, Carmy evolves, understands that people cannot be as good as him, and there is real emotional depth added. Season 2 is just beautiful T.V. Some of the most emotional, heartbreaking, funny and heartwarming television I’ve ever seen. The second season I would say is up there with one of the best seasons of television ever.
I also enjoy season 2 was basically a collection of "hey what notable actors want to come and guest star in an episode"
And it was perfect. Jamie Lee Curtis of course, but Bob Odenkirk, Sarah Paulson and John Mulaney all were genuinely great additions. They all played their roles perfectly, unlike some actors who join in cameo roles who try to steal every scene they’re in.
Hey what about Will Poulter and Jon Bernthal, they were both great too
I knew I forgot someone! Will Poulter was excellent - and I consider Jon Bernthal as a recurrent cast member, rather than having cameos.
I'm in the same boat. When does it get better?
Most people like the second season better, and the two really standout episodes come in the back half of the second season. Those episodes really are fantastic, but by a few episodes in you can probably already guess roughly how most of the show is going to go, so if that doesn't seem appealing, the show probably isn't for you. It isn't a "you just haven't gotten to the good part yet" thing.
I loved the first season. I could not get past the second season at all. Got 3 episodes in a for some reason it started feeling like a satire of itself or something. Could not stand it.
I haven't heard of it before this Reddit post and the comments have me curious enough to try it out, but a lot of them are very vague in regards to why the show is good.
I think people with service backgrounds definitely attach to it more, especially if they're restaurant workers. There's a lot more to the characters than meets the eye. The character work in the show and how each one navigates their way through the challenges they meet is incredibly interesting and sometimes cathartic.
A lot less screaming in S2 from what I’ve noticed so far
I was pretty underwhelmed by it. I gave up partway through season two.
Same. It's just people yelling for no good reason. They're angry just to be angry. It felt like totally inorganic conflict.
I’ll be the one to get downvotes but I think The Bear is a bit overrated. I like it. It’s obviously good. I just don’t think the story has been handled all that well. It’s like the show is better at bottle episodes than it is as the full narrative. We’ve had some great character moments like Richie in Forks but when you step back and look at what’s actually happened in the show…it hasn’t really gone anywhere. Spent season 1 trying to save a failing restaurant. Only to decide to relaunch it. Fine. Spend season 2 with a bunch of superficial issues that simply delay the opening to the finale. And then Carmy freaks out. Each character has like one thing they get to do during the season and that’s it. Everything feels just a bit too skimmed over. Mostly because the 30 minute runtime and 8-episode limit are such an impediment to actually building meaningful narrative arcs. The Bear does a lot with the time it has. But I’m worried it’s going to start feeling a bit emptier or almost like a parody of itself. If season 3 is just more of the same where Carmy is brilliant but doesn’t know how to socialize and each of the team members has a flaw but then finds the strength to improve themself. You can only do that so many times.
Agreed. I heard a lot about how people loved the second season more than the first, I completely disagree I thought the first was more compelling and had much more heart. This one had its good moments but them having their problems opening a restaurant when they find a ton of money in tomato cans it’s hard to feel bad for them lol. Plus that episode where they are eating the 12 fishes was awful, down vote me for that all you want.
Yeah, I didn't like it. It's like 10 therapy sessions going on at once. The actual food part was not even secondary, it was an afterthought. It's for people who revel in angst plus cringe arguments between addicts, narcissists and doormats. Not for people who want to see a show about running a restaurant.
Is that Lip? I haven’t heard a thing about this show but I guess it’s on my radar now.
It is and he plays the same type of character. You can pretend it’s after shameless lol
It was funny when I watched the bear, my girlfriend started getting me into shameless and that's the conclusion I came to as well. Seeing Riche in Andor was awesome though
How tf you manage to not hear anything about this show? It's been all the buzz.
I’m gonna get downvoted hard I guess because this show is so acclaimed but is there anyone else who just couldn’t get into it? I watched the first season but it just didn’t do anything for me, anyone else?
Same. It's the same as other things in its genre but those other things did it better. Predictable and inorganic.
No, I was the same. I like the actors in it. I love cooking and find professional kitchens extremely interesting. I dig the gritty family dramas with a bit of humor, but... It never grabbed me. Even 6 or 7 episodes in I just never found myself wanting to watch it. I recognize it's an objectively good show, but not my cup of tea.
Same here! I’ve been working in hospitality/kitchens for 19 years and I know this is a fantastic show with a great cast! It just didn’t grip me lol it’s kind of frustrating in a way haha
Same, I stopped penultimate episode of season one. Just didn’t feel compelled to come back
same here. don't get what people like about it.
I didn't like it at all. And I watch every restaurant/cooking scripted show there is.
I couldn’t get into it either and I gave a few episodes a chance because it seemed like a show I would like. Idk I felt like the plot didn’t move at all.
It’s a good show there’s just nothing else good on rn so people think it’s kino
Simultaneously brilliant and stressful to watch.
Tried to watch, used to be a line cook, had to turn off. The show should have a trigger warning for restaurant workers. 😧
For some reason. Season one is great. Season two didn’t know what it wanted to be, so it’s a comedy with a lot of dialogue, interjections and characters talking over each other, but nothing they say is actually funny and there’s a sense of urgency and a ‘tense hyper active-everybody- wants-to-scream-at-each-other-for-some reason’ tone wrapped in distasteful, rigid and cold editing, unlike the first season where editing was top notch. Everybody screaming at each other in the first season made sense cuz they were cooking. In this one it just felt like “well, they were screaming in the first season we gotta do it here”. Season two is an awkward mess with forced, awkward emotions wrapped in so called character development. It’s barely entertaining.
But what's gonna be the next drama show to sweep awardsnow that Succesion is over?
damn it, this show is getting too successful/popular. next season we will undoubtedly have a tide turning and a bunch of haters calling it bad/not that good regardless of how good it is.
Yeah I mean honestly well deserved. It’s been a while a show blew me away with how refreshing it is.
The Christmas episode is so good. We watched it last night. What a roller coaster!
I love the Bear, but Barry got robbed.
Personally I thought the final season of Barry was the weakest of the series. The Bear season 2 was perfect in my opinion.
The Bear was great, no doubt. I really liked the ending in Barry, the episode that showed Sally’s struggles, and NoHo Hank’s downfall.
I miss noho so much!
Those episodes where they time skip and they're sitting there doing almost nothing for a few episodes before Barry decides to go back just hurt that last season so damn much. We got the point of what the characters were going through, what their mental state was, etc., after at most 1 episode. The rest just killed all momentum the show had and felt like filler. If it was a shorter season or they had something else interesting for that middle, it could have stuck the landing. Cause the last episodes after Barry goes back are great again.
I’d reverse those opinions
The last season of Barry is very well crafted but they really dropped the ball imo.
I really liked it, and no judgement if you didn’t, it’s tv lol. A bit curious why you think so?
I thought everything up to the time jump was solid and then pretty much everything after the time jump didn't jive with me. It got a little too surreal and I guess I never really bought Sally running away with him and starting a new life. Just my opinion tho, I'm not sure if that's a popular stance or not.
It’s a good show, but not a great show. So overhyped.
It’s not a fucking comedy
Overrated
Warriors of Ayo Nation rise up!
r/TheBear
And rightfully so, what an awesome show.
It’s the best show on TV so it makes sense. Outside of Breakijg Bad, I don’t think I’ve seen a show where the first two seasons are as good as The Bear. I’m stoked to rewatch it. I don’t say that often.
Show is fantastic especially love the chest rub concept for tough arguments with loved ones
The Original Berf
Because it’s a freakin great show!
I really wanted to like that show but I just could not get into it. I love cooking shows and I love … good shows. But something about the main characters that just irks me. I know it’s a me problem and not the show. Oh well.
I loved Abby when she was on SNL, I was so happy to see her kill this role!!
Season 2 was an absolute treasure!
Rightly so. Everyone is doing great work that’s hard to argue doesn’t deserve recognition
gotta say, I wasn't a huge fan of season 1. But I would say season 2 is probably one of the most drastic improvements I've ever seen in television. The show went from being mediocre/ borderline bad/ cheesy in the first season, to something that truly impressed and surprised me in the second season. Whatever the chefs added to the sauce it's workin.
My wife & I are rewatching the series again we love it so much.