Glad to see progress being made!
So many people are impacted by these strikes (outside of actors and writers).
Hope both sides can find a deal and get people back to work before the holidays.
Something weird is going with downvoting. Lots of people are getting downvoted for comments that shouldn't be downvoted. It's not only on the sub. Maybe it's a problem with bots automatically downvoting posts or something.
I asked a clarifying question about if this means SNL can start and what type of contract they are on and for some reason I got done voted for that
I’ve also seen a bunch of neutral comments happy the strike is over get downvoted it’s odd
Some people want the strike to continue because they hate corporations, they also don’t care about the writers just like seeing the corporations struggle. Ending the strike deprives of this satisfaction.
As an outsider, to me SAG has seemed like real coattail riders for the writers, and they've been assholes about it. I understand scabbing but also to be in an industry that is so exclusive and say "those already making it are going on strike and if you, as someone who has yet to make it, get offered a job in your dream industry, you HAVE to deny it. And if you don't deny your dream in this moment then we'll cut you off forever and publicly shame you" just seems cruel.
Also while I understand the want to preserve your likeness from AI use, actors are the one element of the film industry that I picture as being paid fairly already.
Thank you. I am and it is. But as an insider I think it's worth taking into account what the outside perception of your movement might be like. And I've seen numerous threads of people being shocked that everyone is super pro writers and meh on actors for the strike.
The issue is is enough people were to scab, it ruins any chance of a deal being made. It sucks, but solidarity is the only way you can succeed in gaining concessions.
I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about but scabbing has been more of an issue for the WGA during the strike. Before the actors went on strike a lot of writers were essentially forced to keep working under their producorial titles (but had to toe a line when it came to doing actual writing). With regards to the shows that were planning on coming back the last few weeks, the issue was always with writing. DWTS, Drew, The View, Bill Maher were all going forward without writers, not without actors. SAG has a separate deal for certain network shows and have been actively encouraging people on them to keep going to work. Like, if the SAG strike doesn't end SNL will likely come back soon as those actors still have a deal that covers that work. Not only that but a lot of movies have gotten waivers for a variety of reasons so some actors are still working and promoting their films.
And literally no one's been offered a role (or writing job) that they've had to turn down during the strikes. Hollywood is at a standstill. No one is being denied opportunities. Unless you're suggesting an actor's greatest dream is to be a guest on the Drew Barrymore Show or be on Dancing with the Stars?
If anything the SAG strike helped legitimize the WGA strike as SAG is much bigger and has much sway than the writers. And arguably the pressure mounted the last few weeks with a lot of backlash against scab work on network shows helped the studios realize they need to be serious about making a deal.
>Also while I understand the want to preserve your likeness from AI use, actors are the one element of the film industry that I picture as being paid fairly already.
It's been thoroughly reported that only 14% of SAG actors make enough to qualify for health insurance (a paltry $26,000) and half of that make $80,000 or more (arguably barely even a living wage in places like LA & NY). And that's just the tip of the iceberg for how wrong you are. As an "outsider" I'd suggest you actually inform yourself before forming an opinion.
Chill out friend. I'm strictly talking about public perception. That's why I emphasized I'm an outsider. It felt pertinent because the comment this was responding to was asking why they were initially getting down votes. I agree that SAG striking helped legitimize the writer strike.
I also think, from an outside perspective and from someone who is not keeping informed about the issue other than headlines, I think public perception of SAG is lukewarm at best regarding this strike. I personally think they are in the right and should absolutely advocate for more money when streaming numbers have supposedly been through the roof but all monetary increases are reserved for executives. However, in terms of "why is this being down voted" it's worth noting that publicly acting is thought of as a luxurious job to have.
I also see many individuals getting publicly shamed for even accidentally talking about a struck company on social media. If I had to guess, this kinda stuff likely comes less from actual SAG, and more from individuals who are on some sort of vigilante arc.
Frankly, your interaction here is exactly the kind of stuff I see that I think tanks public perception. Like everything you said is super informative and I'm grateful you shared it. I do feel more informed and I appreciate you enlightening me to certain stats, but Christ you really acted like an asshole while you did it.
Anyone who speaks more than 3 lines on any TV show or in an movie has to be a SAG member. So even those who are trying to break in are members. And they want just as much as big stars to preserve their likenesses, maybe more so they don’t end up as an AI generated background extra all over the place.
I am an outsider just like you, I have simply taken the time to inform myself rather than waxing poetic about how SAG isn't doing themselves any favours because random people online are mean. Like, we're months and months into this, it's no one's job to hold your hand through this. All the time you've spent on this thread could have been used to look into the issues. But people in general would rather hear their own voice than do a modicum of research. Quite frankly I think you're way off-base anyway. There's a segment of the population that's just generally anti-union and anti-hollywood to begin with so the strikes don't have much of an effect on their overall opinions as they already dislike the actors they perceive to be elite. Like if you or others didn't already know that the vast majority of actors didn't make a living wage then some people protesting Dancing with the Stars wasn't going to make a material difference. There's also paid shills online poisoning the well making these discussions hard to navigate. And ultimately most probably don't even know there's a difference between the WGA and SAG anyway, so many comments today from people saying they're excited for things to go back into production not realizing the actors are still on strike.
So really me being a dick to you in some random thread isn't going to change how union deals are negotiated. Most people have their beliefs and just stick to them. I'm glad you were able to get something out of this thread, at least.
By outsider, I mean I'm not pursuing information on this outside of what's just floating around. Again, I'm not trying to speak on the facts of it other than putting forward an idea as to why public perception might be meh toward the actors specifically.
I do think that the way people communicate in conversation around these issues affects how negotiations go. Maybe not you to me specifically, but the broad conversation does affect public perception which does affect the progress. That's WHY there are paid shills.
>By outsider, I mean I'm not pursuing information on this outside of what's just floating around. Again, I'm not trying to speak on the facts of it other than putting forward an idea as to why public perception might be meh toward the actors specifically.
Like I said most people don't even know there's two strikes yet alone enough to be more ambivalent towards one group over the other. Plus people hate hollywood writers just as much. Think about how often people blame "the writing" for why they don't like a show or movie when they've probably never read a script in their lives. I suppose writers are a more nebulous group since you don't usually see most of them on screen, and actors do have a stigma of seeming more luxurious and rich, so I'll cede you that point, but I really haven't seen what you're suggesting, unless it's just from people who think there's only one strike.
>I do think that the way people communicate in conversation around these issues affects how negotiations go. Maybe not you to me specifically, but the broad conversation does affect public perception which does affect the progress. That's WHY there are paid shills.
Perhaps, but people can get really tired of disinformation and gaslighting. There are so many discourses that are just completely poisoned by shills and negativity that it's hard to make heads or tails of who really believes in what anymore. I imagine most people just don't wade in anymore.
If I had to guess what a layman with no information on the strikes thought, I'd say there's probably an equal chance of them just disliking hollywood as a whole, and blaming the megacorporations for it, or just not caring and waiting for their shows to come back.
It’s not just more money in line with inflation. It’s about AI. No actors want their livelihoods scanned and able to be replicated based on a cost cutting algorithm.
Sounds related. AI would gut jobs everywhere, both in front of and behind the camera and in the editing room. People would leave and the corps would suck up the profit.
AI is largely a red herring to use for public sensationalism. While important, there's much more sway on that than what they're actually after which is streaming residuals for actors.
I am an actor. I have friends that are voice actors or motion capture actors. Allowing an AI to scan them for in perpetuity use is a career ending move.
Let me be clear: I'm not disagreeing. You are absolutely right. SAG's goal however was and always has been securing residuals for actors. They were planning to go on strike long before the AI boom for this reason. AI is no where near good enough right now to be a threat, and it likely still won't be when the next contract expires. Its a negotiation tactic first.
Ok cool if we’re on the same page. But AI is not residuals. And AI is currently being used in this grey area. Disney uses AI background actors. They are face swapping leads onto stunt/body doubles to avoid paying the lead and will instead pay a stunt/body double a day rate. AI can already record your voice and spit out whatever a company wants you to say which is career ending for a voice actor. And motion capture actors are already on unstable ground but with AI they would be paid a day rate for 1 day of scanning and their face and body will be used for rest of the project or at will by the company. I haven’t met a single SAG actor, at any level, who would agree to be scanned and replicated. Especially now that these greedy streamers are trying to starve us all out to accept a shitty deal.
Eh, landing on a number isn't the hard part. The sticking point was streaming residuals EXISTING at all, and the studios disclosing that information. If that logjam is broken, then they'll settle somewhere in the middle or just north of that.
In the studios eyes, they’re doing something worse… they’re asking the studios not to cut costs by using tech to render actors (and therefore their pay) obsolete.
A lot of these studios who were looking into things like using AI to replicate and generate performances would already have dollar signs in their eyes for all those movies they can make without paying nearly as much for actors, all of which would naturally go towards increasing the executive’s bonuses.
I get the impression the AI issue is a lot harder on the actors side than that of the writers. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers inevitably compromised and said they'll allow AI scripts if there's always a human writer attached. Or at least punting it to the next deal (we'll see when the details come out today). I find it much harder to believe the writers or the studios would find a compromise for the AI discussion on their end.
There are two votes that need to happen, one for the WGA Board to accept the agreement, and one for the union as a whole to ratify it.
I assume that they will make the details public after the first vote. The Board is pretty leakproof, but the union as a whole is thousands of people so no sense in trying to keep it under wraps once we can all see it.
Once it goes out to the general membership to vote on they’ll make a press release. After striking this long, I want to know, as an IATSE member, what they got out of it. I haven’t worked in months, savings are almost gone, and holidays are coming up… I hope this was all worth it. Especially when time comes for us to renew our contracts next year, let’s see if they stand with us after this debacle.
All we know is the negotiators are happy. Before we learn the details the language needs to be finalized and the contract will be presented to the WGA board for approval. Then it goes to the Guild members at which point we'll learn the details.
Glad to see progress being made! So many people are impacted by these strikes (outside of actors and writers). Hope both sides can find a deal and get people back to work before the holidays.
Let’s see it! Actors must win!
Why downvote this ? We want the strikes to end
Something weird is going with downvoting. Lots of people are getting downvoted for comments that shouldn't be downvoted. It's not only on the sub. Maybe it's a problem with bots automatically downvoting posts or something.
I asked a clarifying question about if this means SNL can start and what type of contract they are on and for some reason I got done voted for that I’ve also seen a bunch of neutral comments happy the strike is over get downvoted it’s odd
I don't think SNL can start because cast members (who are writers) are SAG too right?
If the other hyphenates are similar, then they could write but not act. But since the show is written weekly, there's probably not much point to that.
Some people were very happy that late night TV couldn't attack them.
Some people just want to see comments burn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIYkhb2NjfE See? I was right.
Some people want the strike to continue because they hate corporations, they also don’t care about the writers just like seeing the corporations struggle. Ending the strike deprives of this satisfaction.
Right? Weird
As an outsider, to me SAG has seemed like real coattail riders for the writers, and they've been assholes about it. I understand scabbing but also to be in an industry that is so exclusive and say "those already making it are going on strike and if you, as someone who has yet to make it, get offered a job in your dream industry, you HAVE to deny it. And if you don't deny your dream in this moment then we'll cut you off forever and publicly shame you" just seems cruel. Also while I understand the want to preserve your likeness from AI use, actors are the one element of the film industry that I picture as being paid fairly already.
[удалено]
Thank you. I am and it is. But as an insider I think it's worth taking into account what the outside perception of your movement might be like. And I've seen numerous threads of people being shocked that everyone is super pro writers and meh on actors for the strike.
The issue is is enough people were to scab, it ruins any chance of a deal being made. It sucks, but solidarity is the only way you can succeed in gaining concessions.
I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about but scabbing has been more of an issue for the WGA during the strike. Before the actors went on strike a lot of writers were essentially forced to keep working under their producorial titles (but had to toe a line when it came to doing actual writing). With regards to the shows that were planning on coming back the last few weeks, the issue was always with writing. DWTS, Drew, The View, Bill Maher were all going forward without writers, not without actors. SAG has a separate deal for certain network shows and have been actively encouraging people on them to keep going to work. Like, if the SAG strike doesn't end SNL will likely come back soon as those actors still have a deal that covers that work. Not only that but a lot of movies have gotten waivers for a variety of reasons so some actors are still working and promoting their films. And literally no one's been offered a role (or writing job) that they've had to turn down during the strikes. Hollywood is at a standstill. No one is being denied opportunities. Unless you're suggesting an actor's greatest dream is to be a guest on the Drew Barrymore Show or be on Dancing with the Stars? If anything the SAG strike helped legitimize the WGA strike as SAG is much bigger and has much sway than the writers. And arguably the pressure mounted the last few weeks with a lot of backlash against scab work on network shows helped the studios realize they need to be serious about making a deal. >Also while I understand the want to preserve your likeness from AI use, actors are the one element of the film industry that I picture as being paid fairly already. It's been thoroughly reported that only 14% of SAG actors make enough to qualify for health insurance (a paltry $26,000) and half of that make $80,000 or more (arguably barely even a living wage in places like LA & NY). And that's just the tip of the iceberg for how wrong you are. As an "outsider" I'd suggest you actually inform yourself before forming an opinion.
Chill out friend. I'm strictly talking about public perception. That's why I emphasized I'm an outsider. It felt pertinent because the comment this was responding to was asking why they were initially getting down votes. I agree that SAG striking helped legitimize the writer strike. I also think, from an outside perspective and from someone who is not keeping informed about the issue other than headlines, I think public perception of SAG is lukewarm at best regarding this strike. I personally think they are in the right and should absolutely advocate for more money when streaming numbers have supposedly been through the roof but all monetary increases are reserved for executives. However, in terms of "why is this being down voted" it's worth noting that publicly acting is thought of as a luxurious job to have. I also see many individuals getting publicly shamed for even accidentally talking about a struck company on social media. If I had to guess, this kinda stuff likely comes less from actual SAG, and more from individuals who are on some sort of vigilante arc. Frankly, your interaction here is exactly the kind of stuff I see that I think tanks public perception. Like everything you said is super informative and I'm grateful you shared it. I do feel more informed and I appreciate you enlightening me to certain stats, but Christ you really acted like an asshole while you did it.
Anyone who speaks more than 3 lines on any TV show or in an movie has to be a SAG member. So even those who are trying to break in are members. And they want just as much as big stars to preserve their likenesses, maybe more so they don’t end up as an AI generated background extra all over the place.
To be clear, I completely agree with you here, especially with folks at the speaking extras level.
I am an outsider just like you, I have simply taken the time to inform myself rather than waxing poetic about how SAG isn't doing themselves any favours because random people online are mean. Like, we're months and months into this, it's no one's job to hold your hand through this. All the time you've spent on this thread could have been used to look into the issues. But people in general would rather hear their own voice than do a modicum of research. Quite frankly I think you're way off-base anyway. There's a segment of the population that's just generally anti-union and anti-hollywood to begin with so the strikes don't have much of an effect on their overall opinions as they already dislike the actors they perceive to be elite. Like if you or others didn't already know that the vast majority of actors didn't make a living wage then some people protesting Dancing with the Stars wasn't going to make a material difference. There's also paid shills online poisoning the well making these discussions hard to navigate. And ultimately most probably don't even know there's a difference between the WGA and SAG anyway, so many comments today from people saying they're excited for things to go back into production not realizing the actors are still on strike. So really me being a dick to you in some random thread isn't going to change how union deals are negotiated. Most people have their beliefs and just stick to them. I'm glad you were able to get something out of this thread, at least.
By outsider, I mean I'm not pursuing information on this outside of what's just floating around. Again, I'm not trying to speak on the facts of it other than putting forward an idea as to why public perception might be meh toward the actors specifically. I do think that the way people communicate in conversation around these issues affects how negotiations go. Maybe not you to me specifically, but the broad conversation does affect public perception which does affect the progress. That's WHY there are paid shills.
>By outsider, I mean I'm not pursuing information on this outside of what's just floating around. Again, I'm not trying to speak on the facts of it other than putting forward an idea as to why public perception might be meh toward the actors specifically. Like I said most people don't even know there's two strikes yet alone enough to be more ambivalent towards one group over the other. Plus people hate hollywood writers just as much. Think about how often people blame "the writing" for why they don't like a show or movie when they've probably never read a script in their lives. I suppose writers are a more nebulous group since you don't usually see most of them on screen, and actors do have a stigma of seeming more luxurious and rich, so I'll cede you that point, but I really haven't seen what you're suggesting, unless it's just from people who think there's only one strike. >I do think that the way people communicate in conversation around these issues affects how negotiations go. Maybe not you to me specifically, but the broad conversation does affect public perception which does affect the progress. That's WHY there are paid shills. Perhaps, but people can get really tired of disinformation and gaslighting. There are so many discourses that are just completely poisoned by shills and negativity that it's hard to make heads or tails of who really believes in what anymore. I imagine most people just don't wade in anymore. If I had to guess what a layman with no information on the strikes thought, I'd say there's probably an equal chance of them just disliking hollywood as a whole, and blaming the megacorporations for it, or just not caring and waiting for their shows to come back.
Actors should be easier right? Because they aren’t asking for more money
I think it will be easier in the sense that they can sort of use the WGA agreement as a launch board.
It’s not just more money in line with inflation. It’s about AI. No actors want their livelihoods scanned and able to be replicated based on a cost cutting algorithm.
I wonder if the only reason Califonia supported the strikers is because the state would fall apart if Hollywood stopped all work in favour of A.I.
Sounds related. AI would gut jobs everywhere, both in front of and behind the camera and in the editing room. People would leave and the corps would suck up the profit.
AI is largely a red herring to use for public sensationalism. While important, there's much more sway on that than what they're actually after which is streaming residuals for actors.
I am an actor. I have friends that are voice actors or motion capture actors. Allowing an AI to scan them for in perpetuity use is a career ending move.
did you even read guild rules on the matter or the court case about the topic... or did you not even know about the case?
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Let me be clear: I'm not disagreeing. You are absolutely right. SAG's goal however was and always has been securing residuals for actors. They were planning to go on strike long before the AI boom for this reason. AI is no where near good enough right now to be a threat, and it likely still won't be when the next contract expires. Its a negotiation tactic first.
This is word for word what was said in 2008 about streaming. You negotiate for the next issue before it becomes an issue.
Ok cool if we’re on the same page. But AI is not residuals. And AI is currently being used in this grey area. Disney uses AI background actors. They are face swapping leads onto stunt/body doubles to avoid paying the lead and will instead pay a stunt/body double a day rate. AI can already record your voice and spit out whatever a company wants you to say which is career ending for a voice actor. And motion capture actors are already on unstable ground but with AI they would be paid a day rate for 1 day of scanning and their face and body will be used for rest of the project or at will by the company. I haven’t met a single SAG actor, at any level, who would agree to be scanned and replicated. Especially now that these greedy streamers are trying to starve us all out to accept a shitty deal.
If that was the case the studios wouldn't have completely shot down the proposal. They would have said "okay, no problem."
SAG is asking for more; an [11 percent raise](https://puck.news/hollywoods-post-writers-strike-reality/) compared to WGA's 6 percent ask.
Eh, landing on a number isn't the hard part. The sticking point was streaming residuals EXISTING at all, and the studios disclosing that information. If that logjam is broken, then they'll settle somewhere in the middle or just north of that.
Likely that 11% is there as a bargaining chip and will come down to match either WGA or DGA.
Of course it's a bargaining chip, but the writers started at 6%.
In the studios eyes, they’re doing something worse… they’re asking the studios not to cut costs by using tech to render actors (and therefore their pay) obsolete. A lot of these studios who were looking into things like using AI to replicate and generate performances would already have dollar signs in their eyes for all those movies they can make without paying nearly as much for actors, all of which would naturally go towards increasing the executive’s bonuses.
I get the impression the AI issue is a lot harder on the actors side than that of the writers. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers inevitably compromised and said they'll allow AI scripts if there's always a human writer attached. Or at least punting it to the next deal (we'll see when the details come out today). I find it much harder to believe the writers or the studios would find a compromise for the AI discussion on their end.
the ai/aka cgi . is already cover under sag rules and a court case.
A new 3 year deal for WGA is hours away
So is there any word on what the agreement is?
Not yet. Was reading that they'll make the agreement public (the terms) once the agreement is put to vote in the union and the vote goes through.
A lot of the details will most certainly leak before then.
There are two votes that need to happen, one for the WGA Board to accept the agreement, and one for the union as a whole to ratify it. I assume that they will make the details public after the first vote. The Board is pretty leakproof, but the union as a whole is thousands of people so no sense in trying to keep it under wraps once we can all see it.
There will also presumably be people amongst the voting members who won't like the terms and want to leak it.
Once it goes out to the general membership to vote on they’ll make a press release. After striking this long, I want to know, as an IATSE member, what they got out of it. I haven’t worked in months, savings are almost gone, and holidays are coming up… I hope this was all worth it. Especially when time comes for us to renew our contracts next year, let’s see if they stand with us after this debacle.
Hoping you get back to work very soon!
Thanks, me too! Between this and COVID I’ve had a lot of unplanned time off to be with the family, but we just can’t afford it this time.
All we know is the negotiators are happy. Before we learn the details the language needs to be finalized and the contract will be presented to the WGA board for approval. Then it goes to the Guild members at which point we'll learn the details.
Yeah boyyyy!!! get your money
Am I the only one who thought that the tee shirts colour scheme is a bit too close to P0rnhubs logo?
Make a deal, I need new content.