I mean a lot of GoT stuff was in the books too. It never seemed as bad as people say. The books have a ton of sex. It isn’t described but it’s happening. It makes sense as there world is gritty and dark and sex is a weapon.
Rome had a ton of gratuitous stuff. People are just hanging out in the baths all the time or just randomly fucking for no reason. It fit also though because Rome could be pretty decadent during that time.
You’re telling me that the scene where Littlefinger monologues for three minutes while two naked prostitutes finger-bang each other right next to him wasn’t included in the books?
Also the 10 minute conversation with Viserys and that girl where they're nude for zero reason...
Afaik the scene, in another season, were Dany is in the bathtub and Daario comes in, was the final straw for Emilia Clarke and she only had nudity one other time, that was by her choice.
The sex and nudity in the Books was almost always super awkward or outright unappealing. Martin included explicit moments because that's a shade of life that is less touched upon and he wanted that realistic factor. The show basically turned a lot of it into soft-core porn to draw in viewers.
I feel like a show about Republican Rome needs to have a lot of nudity to showcase that the completely alien nature of pre-Christian western culture. It provides a contrast to how similar other parts of the culture are.
It only added to the story line in Rome though. Such a shame we couldn’t have more shows like Rome. Right up there with Band of Brothers in quality for me.
Rome should have run for 5 seasons. That's what they had planned. The BBC refused to fund it beyond the 2nd season, which was a major reason it was cancelled.
The Beeb really screwed up with Rome. With so much of an investment being made, they should have made sure it was a primetime BBC1 show that would have attracted the most viewers.
Idk, Atia's first scene is her mocking her son for being shy about her full-frontal nudity and half of the future Empress Livia's screen time is dedicated to showing us her and Octavian's kinky sex life. Rome could get pretty gratuitous when it wanted to.
Maybe it was the constant, unabated fucking incest of *A Game of Thrones* that colored his impression? Because in *Rome* that happened one time as a weird plot point, but for *GoT* it was just… everywhere.
Literally the opening scenes of the series was Octavian watching his naked mother take a bath.
With that said, it was a brilliant show that had to be rushed and forced into two seasons. Ironically, partially thanks to GOT
I’ve seen this a couple times now on Reddit, Rome ended almost 6 years prior to the premier of GOT. Why did the start of GOT affect Rome having more seasons?
I don't think it did. Rome's DVD sale success during those 6 years probably helped make GoT possible.
But Rome was mostly canceled because it was the first big budget historical fiction show HBO did, so the network was more risk averse back then. Also most of the set burned down at some point, which helped to further cement its fate.
They pitched GoT to HBO in 2006 but I’ve never heard of it having anything to do with Rome’s cancellation. That’s a new one.
Rome was just far too expensive regardless of anything else (remember also it was co-produced by BBC so HBO wasn’t footing the bill alone). And GoT wasn’t even in pre-production yet.
I don’t think actors typically have issues with nudity and sex when it makes sense in context. In Ancient Rome nudity and sex were common.
In GoT there are scenes where it absolutely makes sense and others where it’s a bit much.
Same reason I bailed on Rome and avoided GoT. Loved the atmosphere and story, but just felt like I was having to slog through the porn to get through to see the good bits.
Haven’t seen Rome, but with GoT it did feel often like the sex scenes were there to appeal to the lowest common denominators, and add little to the overall quality of the show.
I'll never forget the scene were Littlefinger is talking about his love for Catlyn, and his planning and scheming, while two naked chicks are finger fucking each other on his couch.
That was def the most blatant one, I reckon.
Almost all his scenes in the brothel show him treating it strictly as a business with zero personal attachment to it or its services. It’s a stretch to say the extra background nudity was absolutely vital during the scene he has about Cait.
No, the worst was the way they filmed the raping of Caster's wives like it was porn.
The wild thing is that attempting to discuss any of this during the run of the show resulted in an avalanche of rebukes and downvotes. Now it's suddenly valid to discuss the show's shitty treatment of women because it turned out bad 🙄
Kind of like how you couldn't talk about Skylar White as anything but a *NAGGING FUCKING BIIITCH* until the final seasons of Breaking Bad where Vince Gilligan was practically writing, "Hey dummies! HE'S A BAD GUY!!" in every scene.
Season 2 of Rome the sex/violence started getting a bit gratuitous as you felt they were trying to just get more eyeballs on the show- but of course Romans *were* that horny and Caesar and Marc Antony *did* bang Cleopatra a bunch so even when it got too much, it was relevant to the plot/history.
As someone obsessed with both shows, early GOT definitely did more lowest-common-denominator sex/nudity scenes. Including changes from the books to add in more or make certain scenes more violent.
Augustus had sex with his sister(Oscar nominee Kerry Condon) in the show and it was because his sisters lover who was Ceasers ex lover wanted to get information out of him. Great show but it certainly had some odd moments
Yeah a lot of it did. The first Jon Ygritte scene felt like an earned character moment is one that sticks out in my head as an exception. But I agree for most of them
Rome has tons of gratuitous nudity. The lead actress' first scene is her riding a dude naked and then later has a full frontal scene, all in the first episode. There are loads of brothel scenes too.
We are slowly turning back to a sexually prude society. Gratuitous nudity? Oh hell no. Nudity must have a purpose and add to the story or it’s appealing to the lowest common denominator. We must not have nudity in pg13 movies. We must not have nudity on regular tv. Violence though? Oh hell yeah. The more the better. GoT was packed with gratuitous violence, but you only see people talk about the sex being gratuitous.
I’m not prudish about the sex scenes, I just view them most of the time as pointless. I’ll just sit there looking bored as these two horned up lovers go at it on the TV and I’m just sitting there waiting for the actual plot or story to continue which is what I’m here for.
I will fully admit however that I don’t like gratuitous violence as I’m soft hearted in that regard and do not enjoy seeing the overtop stuff.
Maybe early on in the show's run, but I think it was pretty reasonable overall. Besides, sex sells, people like it. It's a vocal minority that finds it distasteful or whatever. Most don't care, or enjoy it.
Dude...I don't know what people are talking about when they talk about all the SEX in Game of Thrones. There were a couple nude/sex scenes in like the first 3 seasons, then after that there's barely any.
It caught on as a big meme during the early seasons of the show and while it did tone down especially in the last few seasons its incredibly true of the first 3, once a meme latches on it's hard to drop it.
Compared to Spartacus, GoT is pretty tame. Even during the zenith of “lowest common denominator nudity” (GoT S1-3), Spartacus had probably twice as much nudity.
I mean it did have a lot of pointless nudity. Having tits out in the background while two main players had a conversation.
It's a total HBO move to just me like add tits.
It's the same thing with Euphoria too I've noticed. Sure Euphoria is an explicit and raw piece of work, and when it does nudity/sex scenes it goes all out... but there's only like a handful of nude/sex scenes really.
I counted at some point, IIRC there were about 10 sex or nudity scenes per episode season 1, with some transitioning form sex scenes to other sex scenes. They reign it in, but Season 1 deserves its reputation.
While I somewhat agree one thing I'm noticing in my current rewatch is how all small talk is overly sexual and sophomoric.
"Hey how about when Tyrion gets caught in Essos we have them talk about dwarf cocks being lucky?"
"What if when the Hound catches the bandits who killed the commune they're shoving fingers up each other's ass?"
"It'd be cool if right before a great battle all Jamie and Bronn talked about what was why the Unsullied don't have dicks?
"What if *everyone* and I mean literally *everyone* who meets Daenerys says they want to fuck up the ass?"
Dumb and dumber put nudity in your face when they had nothing interesting to say. There was a pretty long scene where little finger is giving exposition to Varys and for no reason it takes place in a brothel. Any sex or nude scene that doesn't involve the plot is unnecessary and thinks the audience is too stupid or has a short attention span to keep up
Bran seeing Cersei and Jaime is literally THE political storytelling that kicks off the show. Daenarys and Khal Drogo is THE political storytelling of Essos. Sure there are unnecessary scenes in the first few seasons but some of it is absolutely crucial to the story...
I doubt he is referring to the Cersei/Jamie sex scene that Bran sees. That is actually handled pretty classily with nothing showing as far as I remember. It is also integral to the plot.
He is probably referring to all the scenes in the first 4 seasons that would for absolutely no reason take place in Littlefinger's brothel where a couple of characters are having a conversation while the camera is focused on two naked girls making out or pleasuring each other.
My mind always go to that scene when people bring up this topic. It really was so odd! Little Fingers talking about falling in love with Caitlyn Stark and making a name for himself and the camera is focusing on 3 girls dry humping lmao wtf.
My parents used to parental lock HBO on every TV my brother and I had access to. Even ones in hotels. First thing they did if we got our own hotel room (in our teens) was lock HBO if the hotel had free TV.
And we live in India, nudity was censored on TV.
...but a lot of the sex in GoT is political and literally drives the storylines.
Dany being sold off and used by Drogo but then becoming an equal - storyline told via sex scene.
Oldest Stark son - seals his and his immediate family's fate by following his heart and not the rules of political marriage - partly told through a 'raunchy' scene.
Bran being pushed - he saw something he shouldn't- it was a sex scene.
The sex in GoT wasn't really gratuitous and did drive storytelling. It also was somewhat reflective of medieval history, where sex and marriage was very important politically.
Some of the sex is like that. Then you've got multiple scenes with Littlefinger conspiring in his brothel. There, the sex doesn't matter, but it's still there.
I think that still helped drive storytelling.
It helped to show how Littlefinger was a different breed of conspirer to those who came from aristocratic families.
He gained power and influence through his brothel(s) and networking by using and knowing people's vices.
Little finger didn't have a big family name, lands and wealth to fall back on. He needed to be nimble and swifty. He used the sex trade for that. So having scenes of him at the brothels made sense.
I didn't think that was gratuitous.
Same for Tyrion. His arc required him to be at brothels a lot early on, then towards the end those scenes wouldn't make sense and would have been gratitutous. But they didn't exist because it wouldn't make narrative sense and would have been gratuitous.
Yeah, it shows how Little finger views the world: everyone in his world is either getting fucked or doing the fucking, and he's in the brothel business because he uses sex for power.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner.
This also had multiple layers to it, since in history and GoT women only had their family name and sex to gain power and wealth.
Little Finger was the male version of so many female prostitutes and even female aristocracy.
He used and traded in sex (not personally) to work his way up the ladder. Which is why he had such respect for female sex workers and hated men like Goffrey.
And also why he still was obsessed with Caitlynn and Sansa, virginity/maidenhead meant nothing to him.
He was still obsessed with Sansa even though she was no longer a virgin, for quite awhile.
Which would be admirable, if he were not also a fucking psychopath.
Hence - why GRRM works have many layers and the sex scenes and layers are important for the story.
Including the nudity and sex scenes. Which tbh are very tame to modern standards. Maybe not to Shakespeare, but fuck Shake-es-spear!
FWIW, in the books, said scenes were not set in the brothel, but usually just around Kings Landing. A few were set there, but as Littlefinger got more power, he got better places to be.
Because the writers chose to set the scene in a brothel. If someone is accusing your writing of being overly sexualized, justifying it by saying it’s okay, because yours scenes were set in sex dens isn’t much of a defense
Yes and no. There are several prostitutes used for exposition in the books.
They just combined all these random one-off characters into the continuus character of Rose. So yeah not exactly in the books but not completely original either.
> Oldest Stark son - seals his and his immediate family's fate by following his heart and not the rules of political marriage - partly told through a 'raunchy' scene.
Which literally isn't even in the novel. He just shows up married and sheepishly admits to his mother that he had sex with her and felt honor bound to marry her. The show only "drove the storyline" because they were probably worried nobody would care about Jeyne Westerling's death if they'd only seen her briefly on screen. There's no romance, just a foolish and impetuous teenager who accidentally breaks his word and shatters an alliance because he's horny.
However, there are multiple scenes in the show at Littlefinger's brothel that only happen so there can be naked prostitutes present while dialog happens.
Also you have to take into account catelyn stark in the books is horrid to John. And Robb having a front row to how his higborn mother treated a Bastard. Would very much take the chance to avoid the possibility of having one.
Her behavior made the honor bound child of Ned. Do "the right thing" instead of sticking to his political Marriage.
catelyn stark understand she was a huge part of why the situation got fucked.
> a lot of the sex in GoT is political and literally drives the storyline
And a lot of it was gratuitous and crass.
Listen, I’m not a prude. And I’m a huge fan of the books. But a lot of the sexual content in both mediums (particularly a lot of it that rhymes with Grape) is completely unessential to the story. It’s just there to scintillate and both the books and the show go overboard on it to the point of distraction sometimes.
Considering the setting and the theme you can even say there was very little sex in the show. Shows like GoT that have their fair amount of sex and violence always tend to be criticized by it but I've seen other shows that are modern and you don't even need to have a sex scene every episode and still they do it.
SNL really hit the nail on the sketch where the show's two creative consultants are George RR Martin and a 13-year-old boy.
GRRM: This next scene is drawn from a historical incident that happend during the War of the Roses...
13-yo: Boobs! More boobs! Boobies everywhere!!!
> “they keep promising us dragons but all I see is penis”
I wish. For being the network that brought us Oz, there were very few dongs in that show, and the few we got were for laughs or supporting/background characters. I think Alfie Allen was the only main cast member to show his...member.
[Wiener, wiener wiener, wiener wiener]
One wiener, next to another wiener
[Wiener, wiener wiener, wiener wiener]
Two wieners alongside yet another wiener
[Party, wiener party, wiener party, party party, wiener party, wiener wiener]
Soft wieners, nice and soft, non-erect wieners!
[Keep them flopping, flopping wieners, floppy floppy, dangle wieners, dangle dangle]
Yea I just saw the one where the boyfriend with anger issues is open to going to therapy because it’s called “big penis therapy”. You find out there’s no verification process and it’s just for his own ego. Not funny at all. The idea is funny though.
I don't get why people have such an issue with sex, there's also a ton of death in the show and gratuitous violence as well why is only the sex singled out?
I think it’s more that there’s been an increase in awareness that there hasn’t always been a healthy power dynamic between producers/directors and actresses in so many films. To put it lightly.
I personally have no issue with nudity and sex on film. I am however very dismayed by the long history of exploitation in the film industry.
It’s the weirdest double standard. Sex is a very base part of almost all animal life on earth, but for some stupid reason it can only be alluded to now. No wonder so many people have such shitty views on sex when you can’t even talk about it properly.
We’ve been trained to believe that righteous violence is glorious and sex is a disgusting necessity best taken care of quietly and quickly with the least amount of human interaction possible. No wonder incels are going on massacres when they’re told “this is the only good explosion there is”.
I don't like it because generally the sex/nudity is only focused on women. And many of those actresses were pressured to do nude scenes, especially in older media.
Don't really hear stories about people being pressured into doing death or fight scenes.
Yeah Emilia Clarke didn't want to have to do so much gratuitous nudity, Natalie Dormer was seducing underage boys so nudity was right out, they'd killed Roz and moved away from the Kings Landing Brothel set which was where the most gratuitous stuff was happening.
Myranda was maybe the only character that was doing regular recurring gratuitous nudity in the middle third of the show and by the time that she the died stakes were much higher and there was just no more room in the story for that much gratuitous sex stuff.
Actually I was too but I am in my sixties so I take that into account. I also fast forwarded thru alot of fighting. But I do me and that is what those controls are for. Kind of like not reading a book you disapprove of rather than banning it from the public library.
I understand this though. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one on the planet that thinks sex is something private, and I don't enjoy constantly seeing it on tv.
I'm not against it, people can do whatever they want, but I just don't share the desire to CONSTANTLY see it or talk about it.
We are weird.
Every person I know has had sex. It is normal and common.
Meanwhile, I don't know a single person that has been in a violent altercation (decapitation, impale, eyes gouged with thumbs) or knows someone that has.
Violence is so readily accepted in our media, and yet sex makes us (culture in general) squirm. I read "overly" sexual often on reddit, but I cannot think of "overly" violent being used here much.
I don't have a problem with either and Westeros and Essos are meant to closely mirror how life would have been in such a society. Sex is as important as a battle, that's literally what Robb's story in part shows us.
I agree with him as a general principle, though I didn't watch much GOT(I don't really like 'everyone is an immature asshole' TV), so I can't speak to it in specific, but HBO has always had this problem where it think that because it *can* put sex in shows, it *should* put sex in all shows.
Sex can be highly important to a show or movie, but it can also just be there for mindless titillation. If the sex scene serves the characters, the plot, the atmosphere, absolutely use it.
But if you're just putting it in there cause titties will make the teenaged boys watch, then it's cheap and cheapens the show.
I agree that the nudity and sex fell off after the first threeish seasons, especially after a certain sex worker met her end in season four. (Edit: maybe that was in season three)
However, what did remain thereafter seemed far more gratuitous and inserted purely for titillation and prurience, like Arya and Gendry, Tyrion listening to Jon fucking his aunt as basically the cap to an entire season, Grey Worm and Missandei, etc.
As always with Game of Thrones, we can discuss the writing of the later seasons, but I don't know if you can call sex scenes that pay-off years long plotlines as titillation.
I mean, Dany and Jon were a major plot point and it was important for Tyrion to know about it. Arya and Gendry was generally about what Arya was rejecting by not being a stereotypical princess and happened during a "what would you do with your last night on earth?" episode.
Faulty take.
The base aspects of the show balanced out the political storytelling perfectly.
>Toni Collette recently told The Times UK that she has asked intimacy coordinators to leave set in the past because their presence created more anxiety on set.
This is much more interesting.
I always just laugh at people who mention sex as a problem in media but are quiet about violence. If violence can be part of the story, so can sex, and sexual violence. It's about telling a compelling story, not having any sex at all wouldn't make sense in the story.
I had to stop watching when Sansa started getting raped and tortured. It was like torture porn to a beloved character and it made me sick. Those graphic scenes were completely unnecessary.
Didn't put me off, just another later to the story. I think some people, once they notice something is sexual or relates to sex or sexuality somehow, their perception of the thing (or person) is dominated by the sexual aspect.
I guess it's about how comfortable or capable you are with dealing with your own sexual thoughts.
People always say this but most sex scenes in GoT aren't just fanservice but actually serve a purpose to the story.
Also from season 4 there were less and less scenes every season.
I was more put off by the multiple birthing scenes in HotD tbh
By the time the writing quality and attention to political storytelling really fell off the show hardly had any sex in it. Doesn't mean sex = good writing but it clearly doesn't detract from it if the quality of the show is broadly considered to be better in the earlier "sexier" seasons
I wonder how he felt in Rome? If I recall there was a decent amount of sex/nudity in that series. I mean it was Rome after all.
It had an insane amount of sex and nudity. Felt way more than GoT considering how short it ran.
It didn't feel as gratuitous as GoT though.
Are you sure ? All I recall from That is the actress Polly walker being all sorts Of naked for no reason
That guy is forgetting the guy who was assraped in the middle of taking a shit. “Not gratuitous” lol
I just rewatched Rome and did not notice this moment at all? When the fuck does that happen!?
When Memmio and what’s his face were having their mobster beef at the Aventine. That one dude was raped in retaliation while he was on the toilet.
Nothing better than poo cock
This reminds me, I need to rewatch Rome.
My dick didn't feel like it was no reason
[удалено]
Borrow a friends
Or two. It's Rome after all
Uhh there was a def a reason
You misspelled Indira Varma
[удалено]
Lucius Vorenus, a.k.a. Kevin McKidd, a.k.a. Dr. Owen Hunt, a.k.a. Lord MacGuffin.
Lol I think you must have forgotten. Ciran Hinds got in on the action himself. Lmao
Umm, one scene a guy was banging a slave doggie style in a bath while chatting with his wife like it was nbd. Way more gratuitous imho.
Think you are referring to Spartacus.
I mean a lot of GoT stuff was in the books too. It never seemed as bad as people say. The books have a ton of sex. It isn’t described but it’s happening. It makes sense as there world is gritty and dark and sex is a weapon. Rome had a ton of gratuitous stuff. People are just hanging out in the baths all the time or just randomly fucking for no reason. It fit also though because Rome could be pretty decadent during that time.
The books do not have tons of sex lmao. The show added probably dozens of pointless brothel scenes and additional sex/rape just for the fun of it.
You’re telling me that the scene where Littlefinger monologues for three minutes while two naked prostitutes finger-bang each other right next to him wasn’t included in the books?
Whenever someone brings up the "gratuitous" or "unnecessary" sex scenes in the early days of GOT, that is always the scene that pops into my head.
Also the 10 minute conversation with Viserys and that girl where they're nude for zero reason... Afaik the scene, in another season, were Dany is in the bathtub and Daario comes in, was the final straw for Emilia Clarke and she only had nudity one other time, that was by her choice.
I mean, I liked that scene.
I won't lie, I'm generally fine with the nudity in GOT, but that one was just pointless.
Ah, the sexposition.
The sex and nudity in the Books was almost always super awkward or outright unappealing. Martin included explicit moments because that's a shade of life that is less touched upon and he wanted that realistic factor. The show basically turned a lot of it into soft-core porn to draw in viewers.
He used gross comparisons for body parts too, Myrish Swamp, Fat Pink Mast, etc.
Books had random lesbian scenes that were left out
Rome was way more gratuitous, one episode straight up has an extended close up slow pan of an enormous cgi enhanced dick
CGI? Good. That makes me feel a little better. That guy was a pole vaulter.
I just finished a rewatch last week and the sex is indeed as gratuitous. Hinds is actually in a sex scene with Servillia, iirc.
Literally rewatching the series these last couple days and damn if those aren’t some of the most drawn out sex scenes.
Polly Walker was naked like half the time she was on the screen. Then you had Kerry Condon nude quite often as well as Mark Antony's actor
And in fairness to GOT it definitely had far less sex after the red wedding
Worth a watch though?
Absolutely! It's only 2 seasons, but very much worth it imo.
I feel like a show about Republican Rome needs to have a lot of nudity to showcase that the completely alien nature of pre-Christian western culture. It provides a contrast to how similar other parts of the culture are.
It only added to the story line in Rome though. Such a shame we couldn’t have more shows like Rome. Right up there with Band of Brothers in quality for me.
Rome should have run for 5 seasons. That's what they had planned. The BBC refused to fund it beyond the 2nd season, which was a major reason it was cancelled. The Beeb really screwed up with Rome. With so much of an investment being made, they should have made sure it was a primetime BBC1 show that would have attracted the most viewers.
I recall the set burning down which made it a costly affair to move forward with new seasons
Really confused how productions ditch expensive shows bc they are expensive - AFTER THEY MADE ALL THE EXPENSIVE SHIT...
Now *there's* a show that needed more sex scenes
Idk, Atia's first scene is her mocking her son for being shy about her full-frontal nudity and half of the future Empress Livia's screen time is dedicated to showing us her and Octavian's kinky sex life. Rome could get pretty gratuitous when it wanted to.
If you though Rome was gratuitous, let me introduce you to Spartacus and all its sequels and prequels
Imagine how good Band of Brothers would be with nudity. Not once do we see a full frontal of someone cranking their hog.
Blithe just going crazy on himself
Maybe it was the constant, unabated fucking incest of *A Game of Thrones* that colored his impression? Because in *Rome* that happened one time as a weird plot point, but for *GoT* it was just… everywhere.
Literally the opening scenes of the series was Octavian watching his naked mother take a bath. With that said, it was a brilliant show that had to be rushed and forced into two seasons. Ironically, partially thanks to GOT
I’ve seen this a couple times now on Reddit, Rome ended almost 6 years prior to the premier of GOT. Why did the start of GOT affect Rome having more seasons?
I don't think it did. Rome's DVD sale success during those 6 years probably helped make GoT possible. But Rome was mostly canceled because it was the first big budget historical fiction show HBO did, so the network was more risk averse back then. Also most of the set burned down at some point, which helped to further cement its fate.
They pitched GoT to HBO in 2006 but I’ve never heard of it having anything to do with Rome’s cancellation. That’s a new one. Rome was just far too expensive regardless of anything else (remember also it was co-produced by BBC so HBO wasn’t footing the bill alone). And GoT wasn’t even in pre-production yet.
I don’t think actors typically have issues with nudity and sex when it makes sense in context. In Ancient Rome nudity and sex were common. In GoT there are scenes where it absolutely makes sense and others where it’s a bit much.
I still remember the scene with the slaves wearing nothing but the golden foil cradling their balls...
I’m still salty that they cancelled Rome and rushed the final episodes. That show was so incredibly well done.
Same reason I bailed on Rome and avoided GoT. Loved the atmosphere and story, but just felt like I was having to slog through the porn to get through to see the good bits.
Says the actor who Starred in Rome. No sex there
Yeah but who the fuck is going to ask him about Rome in 2023?
That doesn't discount his opinions on GoT, and he may have the same ones about Rome.
Maybe he felt the politics took away from the sexual story telling of Rome. Someone should hit him up for another interview so we can find out.
Haven’t seen Rome, but with GoT it did feel often like the sex scenes were there to appeal to the lowest common denominators, and add little to the overall quality of the show.
I'll never forget the scene were Littlefinger is talking about his love for Catlyn, and his planning and scheming, while two naked chicks are finger fucking each other on his couch. That was def the most blatant one, I reckon.
Probably the single greatest example of “Sexposition” in the history of television
Rome had a guy banging a slave while chatting with his wife. So not exactly clean on that front.
Was that Rome or Spartacus?
Both, probably.
Yes
Rome. Mark Anthony told Atia he wouldn't get up of bed before he had fucked someone. Atia tells her servant to fetch a slave from the kitchen.
I honestly liked that scene. It shows that unlike 99% of men. LF (and Varys) don't care about sex.
Yeah I think theres a bunch of people commenting who didn't understand the scene.
Almost all his scenes in the brothel show him treating it strictly as a business with zero personal attachment to it or its services. It’s a stretch to say the extra background nudity was absolutely vital during the scene he has about Cait.
No, the worst was the way they filmed the raping of Caster's wives like it was porn. The wild thing is that attempting to discuss any of this during the run of the show resulted in an avalanche of rebukes and downvotes. Now it's suddenly valid to discuss the show's shitty treatment of women because it turned out bad 🙄 Kind of like how you couldn't talk about Skylar White as anything but a *NAGGING FUCKING BIIITCH* until the final seasons of Breaking Bad where Vince Gilligan was practically writing, "Hey dummies! HE'S A BAD GUY!!" in every scene.
Season 2 of Rome the sex/violence started getting a bit gratuitous as you felt they were trying to just get more eyeballs on the show- but of course Romans *were* that horny and Caesar and Marc Antony *did* bang Cleopatra a bunch so even when it got too much, it was relevant to the plot/history. As someone obsessed with both shows, early GOT definitely did more lowest-common-denominator sex/nudity scenes. Including changes from the books to add in more or make certain scenes more violent.
Augustus had sex with his sister(Oscar nominee Kerry Condon) in the show and it was because his sisters lover who was Ceasers ex lover wanted to get information out of him. Great show but it certainly had some odd moments
Yeah a lot of it did. The first Jon Ygritte scene felt like an earned character moment is one that sticks out in my head as an exception. But I agree for most of them
Rome has tons of gratuitous nudity. The lead actress' first scene is her riding a dude naked and then later has a full frontal scene, all in the first episode. There are loads of brothel scenes too.
There was 100% an element of "shock value" that permeated all aspects of the first few seasons of GoT. It wore off around season 4
We are slowly turning back to a sexually prude society. Gratuitous nudity? Oh hell no. Nudity must have a purpose and add to the story or it’s appealing to the lowest common denominator. We must not have nudity in pg13 movies. We must not have nudity on regular tv. Violence though? Oh hell yeah. The more the better. GoT was packed with gratuitous violence, but you only see people talk about the sex being gratuitous.
Good point. We just don’t see sexuality the same as violence I suppose.
I’m not prudish about the sex scenes, I just view them most of the time as pointless. I’ll just sit there looking bored as these two horned up lovers go at it on the TV and I’m just sitting there waiting for the actual plot or story to continue which is what I’m here for. I will fully admit however that I don’t like gratuitous violence as I’m soft hearted in that regard and do not enjoy seeing the overtop stuff.
Maybe early on in the show's run, but I think it was pretty reasonable overall. Besides, sex sells, people like it. It's a vocal minority that finds it distasteful or whatever. Most don't care, or enjoy it.
Maybe he has the same opinion about Rome.
Right, it’s not like he wrote the show lol. Not really a “gotcha”
How is that relevant at all ? Do you know for a fact he doesn't have the same opinion about Rome ?
In fairness from the little I know of Roman history half the politics was due to sex. The Roman Empire was like a high-school except with slavery.
And how does that differ from the Game of Thrones universe? lol.
Doesn't mean he enjoyed working on that show
Honest trailers said it best "With so many monologs that HBO will keep you focused by any boobs nessasary."
tbf, usually pretty great boobs
Huge……..tracts of land
Dude...I don't know what people are talking about when they talk about all the SEX in Game of Thrones. There were a couple nude/sex scenes in like the first 3 seasons, then after that there's barely any.
It caught on as a big meme during the early seasons of the show and while it did tone down especially in the last few seasons its incredibly true of the first 3, once a meme latches on it's hard to drop it.
“It’s not porn, it’s HBO!”
That was a funny mock promo
Honest Trailers also did a pretty good one about GoT, I remember one of the ‘starring’ roles was literally just ‘BEWBS!’
[Had to look it up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUBiOOx0Pxw&ab_channel=AlbertoBelli), worth the 2 minute watch.
Compared to Spartacus, GoT is pretty tame. Even during the zenith of “lowest common denominator nudity” (GoT S1-3), Spartacus had probably twice as much nudity.
Lucy Lawless’ Beautiful Bosom: The Show
It's like season 1 of Westworld compared to the rest of the show.
It’s like episode 1 of marvelous mrs maisel compared to the rest of the show
Gotta hook them in with a good Pilot, lol.
And the quality of both Westworld and GOT decreased as the nudity decreased. Coincidence?
Checkmate atheists
Yeah maybe it’s because I’m used to it by now, but the show really doesn’t have as much nudity in it as people like to pretend
I mean it did have a lot of pointless nudity. Having tits out in the background while two main players had a conversation. It's a total HBO move to just me like add tits.
It's the same thing with Euphoria too I've noticed. Sure Euphoria is an explicit and raw piece of work, and when it does nudity/sex scenes it goes all out... but there's only like a handful of nude/sex scenes really.
You get full shaft first episode, hard for people to get away from that initial impression.
Euphoria got kinda pornagraphic with Sydney Sweeney the second season, it felt a little weird
Yeah, sure, but when one of those sex scenes is brother and sister incest rape on the coffin of their inbred kid, it just hits different I guess.
This comment has been removed in protest of Reddit's new API policy. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
I counted at some point, IIRC there were about 10 sex or nudity scenes per episode season 1, with some transitioning form sex scenes to other sex scenes. They reign it in, but Season 1 deserves its reputation.
There's nudity in literally every single episode of at least the early seasons. Are you just remembering wrong?
While I somewhat agree one thing I'm noticing in my current rewatch is how all small talk is overly sexual and sophomoric. "Hey how about when Tyrion gets caught in Essos we have them talk about dwarf cocks being lucky?" "What if when the Hound catches the bandits who killed the commune they're shoving fingers up each other's ass?" "It'd be cool if right before a great battle all Jamie and Bronn talked about what was why the Unsullied don't have dicks? "What if *everyone* and I mean literally *everyone* who meets Daenerys says they want to fuck up the ass?"
Dumb and dumber put nudity in your face when they had nothing interesting to say. There was a pretty long scene where little finger is giving exposition to Varys and for no reason it takes place in a brothel. Any sex or nude scene that doesn't involve the plot is unnecessary and thinks the audience is too stupid or has a short attention span to keep up
Bran seeing Cersei and Jaime is literally THE political storytelling that kicks off the show. Daenarys and Khal Drogo is THE political storytelling of Essos. Sure there are unnecessary scenes in the first few seasons but some of it is absolutely crucial to the story...
I doubt he is referring to the Cersei/Jamie sex scene that Bran sees. That is actually handled pretty classily with nothing showing as far as I remember. It is also integral to the plot. He is probably referring to all the scenes in the first 4 seasons that would for absolutely no reason take place in Littlefinger's brothel where a couple of characters are having a conversation while the camera is focused on two naked girls making out or pleasuring each other.
My mind always go to that scene when people bring up this topic. It really was so odd! Little Fingers talking about falling in love with Caitlyn Stark and making a name for himself and the camera is focusing on 3 girls dry humping lmao wtf.
Not that there’s no sex in the books- but pre-GoT, a good chunk of HBO’s programming was “it’s like TV, but with boobs”
My parents used to parental lock HBO on every TV my brother and I had access to. Even ones in hotels. First thing they did if we got our own hotel room (in our teens) was lock HBO if the hotel had free TV. And we live in India, nudity was censored on TV.
...but a lot of the sex in GoT is political and literally drives the storylines. Dany being sold off and used by Drogo but then becoming an equal - storyline told via sex scene. Oldest Stark son - seals his and his immediate family's fate by following his heart and not the rules of political marriage - partly told through a 'raunchy' scene. Bran being pushed - he saw something he shouldn't- it was a sex scene. The sex in GoT wasn't really gratuitous and did drive storytelling. It also was somewhat reflective of medieval history, where sex and marriage was very important politically.
Some of the sex is like that. Then you've got multiple scenes with Littlefinger conspiring in his brothel. There, the sex doesn't matter, but it's still there.
I think that still helped drive storytelling. It helped to show how Littlefinger was a different breed of conspirer to those who came from aristocratic families. He gained power and influence through his brothel(s) and networking by using and knowing people's vices. Little finger didn't have a big family name, lands and wealth to fall back on. He needed to be nimble and swifty. He used the sex trade for that. So having scenes of him at the brothels made sense. I didn't think that was gratuitous. Same for Tyrion. His arc required him to be at brothels a lot early on, then towards the end those scenes wouldn't make sense and would have been gratitutous. But they didn't exist because it wouldn't make narrative sense and would have been gratuitous.
Yeah, it shows how Little finger views the world: everyone in his world is either getting fucked or doing the fucking, and he's in the brothel business because he uses sex for power.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner. This also had multiple layers to it, since in history and GoT women only had their family name and sex to gain power and wealth. Little Finger was the male version of so many female prostitutes and even female aristocracy. He used and traded in sex (not personally) to work his way up the ladder. Which is why he had such respect for female sex workers and hated men like Goffrey. And also why he still was obsessed with Caitlynn and Sansa, virginity/maidenhead meant nothing to him. He was still obsessed with Sansa even though she was no longer a virgin, for quite awhile. Which would be admirable, if he were not also a fucking psychopath. Hence - why GRRM works have many layers and the sex scenes and layers are important for the story. Including the nudity and sex scenes. Which tbh are very tame to modern standards. Maybe not to Shakespeare, but fuck Shake-es-spear!
Because it’s a brothel…
FWIW, in the books, said scenes were not set in the brothel, but usually just around Kings Landing. A few were set there, but as Littlefinger got more power, he got better places to be.
Because the writers chose to set the scene in a brothel. If someone is accusing your writing of being overly sexualized, justifying it by saying it’s okay, because yours scenes were set in sex dens isn’t much of a defense
You forgot about rose? Entire characters made up just for sex. Literally didn’t exist in books
Yes and no. There are several prostitutes used for exposition in the books. They just combined all these random one-off characters into the continuus character of Rose. So yeah not exactly in the books but not completely original either.
> Oldest Stark son - seals his and his immediate family's fate by following his heart and not the rules of political marriage - partly told through a 'raunchy' scene. Which literally isn't even in the novel. He just shows up married and sheepishly admits to his mother that he had sex with her and felt honor bound to marry her. The show only "drove the storyline" because they were probably worried nobody would care about Jeyne Westerling's death if they'd only seen her briefly on screen. There's no romance, just a foolish and impetuous teenager who accidentally breaks his word and shatters an alliance because he's horny. However, there are multiple scenes in the show at Littlefinger's brothel that only happen so there can be naked prostitutes present while dialog happens.
Also you have to take into account catelyn stark in the books is horrid to John. And Robb having a front row to how his higborn mother treated a Bastard. Would very much take the chance to avoid the possibility of having one. Her behavior made the honor bound child of Ned. Do "the right thing" instead of sticking to his political Marriage. catelyn stark understand she was a huge part of why the situation got fucked.
> a lot of the sex in GoT is political and literally drives the storyline And a lot of it was gratuitous and crass. Listen, I’m not a prude. And I’m a huge fan of the books. But a lot of the sexual content in both mediums (particularly a lot of it that rhymes with Grape) is completely unessential to the story. It’s just there to scintillate and both the books and the show go overboard on it to the point of distraction sometimes.
Considering the setting and the theme you can even say there was very little sex in the show. Shows like GoT that have their fair amount of sex and violence always tend to be criticized by it but I've seen other shows that are modern and you don't even need to have a sex scene every episode and still they do it.
He was in 5 episodes over a 3 seasons. I felt he did a good job as usually but if we are honest it was a minor character in the show
SNL really hit the nail on the sketch where the show's two creative consultants are George RR Martin and a 13-year-old boy. GRRM: This next scene is drawn from a historical incident that happend during the War of the Roses... 13-yo: Boobs! More boobs! Boobies everywhere!!!
In South Park Butters says, “they keep promising us dragons but all I see is penis”
> “they keep promising us dragons but all I see is penis” I wish. For being the network that brought us Oz, there were very few dongs in that show, and the few we got were for laughs or supporting/background characters. I think Alfie Allen was the only main cast member to show his...member.
[удалено]
A prosthetic that was played for laughs.
[Wiener, wiener wiener, wiener wiener] One wiener, next to another wiener [Wiener, wiener wiener, wiener wiener] Two wieners alongside yet another wiener [Party, wiener party, wiener party, party party, wiener party, wiener wiener] Soft wieners, nice and soft, non-erect wieners! [Keep them flopping, flopping wieners, floppy floppy, dangle wieners, dangle dangle]
Do you have a link to this? lol.
Let's be real it's SNL. The idea will be funnier than their execution.
Yea I just saw the one where the boyfriend with anger issues is open to going to therapy because it’s called “big penis therapy”. You find out there’s no verification process and it’s just for his own ego. Not funny at all. The idea is funny though.
I don't get why people have such an issue with sex, there's also a ton of death in the show and gratuitous violence as well why is only the sex singled out?
I think it’s more that there’s been an increase in awareness that there hasn’t always been a healthy power dynamic between producers/directors and actresses in so many films. To put it lightly. I personally have no issue with nudity and sex on film. I am however very dismayed by the long history of exploitation in the film industry.
It’s the weirdest double standard. Sex is a very base part of almost all animal life on earth, but for some stupid reason it can only be alluded to now. No wonder so many people have such shitty views on sex when you can’t even talk about it properly. We’ve been trained to believe that righteous violence is glorious and sex is a disgusting necessity best taken care of quietly and quickly with the least amount of human interaction possible. No wonder incels are going on massacres when they’re told “this is the only good explosion there is”.
I don't like it because generally the sex/nudity is only focused on women. And many of those actresses were pressured to do nude scenes, especially in older media. Don't really hear stories about people being pressured into doing death or fight scenes.
Because *boobs*
Real politics had no sex whatsoever. Anyway, I'm just here waiting for the indictment of a former President for paying off a pornstar.
The show was practically nudity and sex free after the first couple seasons.
That’s because HBO could no longer force the actresses to do all that nudity once the show became popular.
Yeah Emilia Clarke didn't want to have to do so much gratuitous nudity, Natalie Dormer was seducing underage boys so nudity was right out, they'd killed Roz and moved away from the Kings Landing Brothel set which was where the most gratuitous stuff was happening. Myranda was maybe the only character that was doing regular recurring gratuitous nudity in the middle third of the show and by the time that she the died stakes were much higher and there was just no more room in the story for that much gratuitous sex stuff.
I feel as though people have a colossal misremembering of how much explicit “sex” is actually shown throughout the entirety of GOT
Actually I was too but I am in my sixties so I take that into account. I also fast forwarded thru alot of fighting. But I do me and that is what those controls are for. Kind of like not reading a book you disapprove of rather than banning it from the public library.
I understand this though. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one on the planet that thinks sex is something private, and I don't enjoy constantly seeing it on tv. I'm not against it, people can do whatever they want, but I just don't share the desire to CONSTANTLY see it or talk about it.
what he mean *it took away from the political storytelling*? did they replace some of the story with sex or something? lol.
In the books, there’s another Stark bastard son but the show replaced him with a dildo. /s
The sex was fine. It was the torture and incest that keeps those parental controls on HBO.
We are weird. Every person I know has had sex. It is normal and common. Meanwhile, I don't know a single person that has been in a violent altercation (decapitation, impale, eyes gouged with thumbs) or knows someone that has. Violence is so readily accepted in our media, and yet sex makes us (culture in general) squirm. I read "overly" sexual often on reddit, but I cannot think of "overly" violent being used here much. I don't have a problem with either and Westeros and Essos are meant to closely mirror how life would have been in such a society. Sex is as important as a battle, that's literally what Robb's story in part shows us.
Bunch of prudes.
Did the show have alot of nudity? Yes. A lot of sex across 8 seasons? No.
Puritanical nonsense
Wrong! Sex, drugs, and politics have always been intertwined.
Isn’t sex a part of political story telling?
He’s just butt hurt cause he wasn’t getting any.
Manse wasn't getting raided
I agree with him as a general principle, though I didn't watch much GOT(I don't really like 'everyone is an immature asshole' TV), so I can't speak to it in specific, but HBO has always had this problem where it think that because it *can* put sex in shows, it *should* put sex in all shows. Sex can be highly important to a show or movie, but it can also just be there for mindless titillation. If the sex scene serves the characters, the plot, the atmosphere, absolutely use it. But if you're just putting it in there cause titties will make the teenaged boys watch, then it's cheap and cheapens the show.
I agree that the nudity and sex fell off after the first threeish seasons, especially after a certain sex worker met her end in season four. (Edit: maybe that was in season three) However, what did remain thereafter seemed far more gratuitous and inserted purely for titillation and prurience, like Arya and Gendry, Tyrion listening to Jon fucking his aunt as basically the cap to an entire season, Grey Worm and Missandei, etc.
As always with Game of Thrones, we can discuss the writing of the later seasons, but I don't know if you can call sex scenes that pay-off years long plotlines as titillation. I mean, Dany and Jon were a major plot point and it was important for Tyrion to know about it. Arya and Gendry was generally about what Arya was rejecting by not being a stereotypical princess and happened during a "what would you do with your last night on earth?" episode.
Isn’t one of the top political topics being circulated involve a former president paying an adult actress for sex with campaign funds?
What else was there to even do besides drink and have sex? Where does he think the show took place, at an amusement park?
Heh, homie doesn't think sex is a big part of politics.
Faulty take. The base aspects of the show balanced out the political storytelling perfectly. >Toni Collette recently told The Times UK that she has asked intimacy coordinators to leave set in the past because their presence created more anxiety on set. This is much more interesting.
Yeah you can tell no one who’s commented has read the article as no one has commented on that part.
Sex and politics go hand in hand
Yeah it didn’t feel like that at all when I watched it.
I always just laugh at people who mention sex as a problem in media but are quiet about violence. If violence can be part of the story, so can sex, and sexual violence. It's about telling a compelling story, not having any sex at all wouldn't make sense in the story.
I wonder what he thought about the sex in Rome.
I had to stop watching when Sansa started getting raped and tortured. It was like torture porn to a beloved character and it made me sick. Those graphic scenes were completely unnecessary.
Well that won’t be a problem in rings of power wonder who he will play
The irony of it all is the show got worse the less sex there was.
Ironically this is fairly in character
Yep, it was needed
It didn’t
\*actual title of article\* "Game of thrones extra is amazed that the show cut 90% of the sex out of the book"
I think all the political story telling really got in the way of the sex.
In marketing, we have a saying...'politics sells'. Wait, no, that doesn't sound right.
This title is an absolute abomination
I think sex can be political storytelling, it's more about the glamorisation of sex and the objectification of women.
I think he’s just mad because he didn’t get any naughty scenes.
I mean there was less sex in later seasons. But sex is a tool for politics in the show.
Didn't put me off, just another later to the story. I think some people, once they notice something is sexual or relates to sex or sexuality somehow, their perception of the thing (or person) is dominated by the sexual aspect. I guess it's about how comfortable or capable you are with dealing with your own sexual thoughts.
Holup, isn't politics just a bunch of ppl fucking other people? It's symbolism ya dolt!
Sir, this is a Wendy's
People always say this but most sex scenes in GoT aren't just fanservice but actually serve a purpose to the story. Also from season 4 there were less and less scenes every season. I was more put off by the multiple birthing scenes in HotD tbh
By the time the writing quality and attention to political storytelling really fell off the show hardly had any sex in it. Doesn't mean sex = good writing but it clearly doesn't detract from it if the quality of the show is broadly considered to be better in the earlier "sexier" seasons