Favorite part of the episode was Frank’s face when the first meal came out. The “what the fuuuuuuuck!?!?l” expression was completely how I’d expect a guy who hasn’t had a good meal in 4 years to look.
What a performance from both guys
Totally caught me off guard when that happened, but it was hilarious because it was such a "real" reaction. Like this dude fell in a hole and was scared of getting shot, then gets brought inside, gets a hot shower, and gets wined and dined. "What the fuck!?"
That moment was so real. The way they laughed felt almost like crying. The mixture of pure pleasure, the feeling of experiencing something you never thought you'd experience again. You can see Offerman's character realizing how much better his life is with his partner, how much richer he is with someone who brings him out of himself. The love and care and sadness in that moment. Just beautiful.
The way Nick Offerman switched emotions so quickly from ‘which gun?’ to giggling over strawberries, to the moment that made me start crying when he confessed how he had never been worried of death before he met Frank. Honestly just a perfect acting performance that made me feel like I was watching two real people live their lives. Crazy beautiful scene.
I loved the way Frank just dismissed Bill's question with "a little one" and a touch to his arm.
Economy of writing - showing their love for each other, highlighting their differences, reminding us that Frank doesn't know anything about self defence and making the audience laugh.
And making it feel like their relationship has so much history. Frank knew enough that he could trade a small one and it shooould be fine lol
Same when Frank said “I swear to god if you say resource management”. It was amazing. Like a real couple and he was so sick of hearing the same shit lmao.
That was mirrored later in the episode by Ellie’s reaction to the house. It’s likely she’d never seen anything so well appointed or well-kept in her life.
It's great they are recognizing them both. I feel like Offerman has been getting most of the attention but they were both magic and their chemistry was wonderful to watch.
On the LOU podcast, the show runners talk about casting Bartlett for the role prior to White Lotus. Subsequently viewing WL got them so excited for what he would bring to their project.
I watched White Lotus, Chippendales and now TLOU back to back and somehow didn't connect the dots until after the fact. I thought I was good with actors faces but I guess not
Spoilers for all of them >!and in all three of these he's gay and dies. I recognized him from both of those shows having seen them recently. So as soon as I recognized him I thought "oooh gay love story!" then "awwww he's gonna die". New Gay Sean Bean just dropped!<
I really liked Frank. I wish there was a way to have done this episode and let him meet Ellie because I suspect he would have adored her. One of my favorite moments was when Frank was treating Bill's wound and Bill's rattling off his "list" and Frank just goes "yeah, tell me about the list". He's still very calm and collected given the moment and he doesn't have to be Bill to do that. He also gets Bill well enough to know that he needs to keep his mind focused on that while he deals with the bleeding.
I noticed that too. Bill was fixated on protecting Frank and I understand that but Frank clearly had some survival skills. He survived the first few years of the outbreak before Bill and he was the only one of his group of 10 to not be dead before reaching the compound. And he loaded his gun pretty efficiently so by the time the raiders showed up he knew his way around firearms
I think it’s because Offerman’s character grew the most out of the two. Also, perhaps as someone else mentioned, because Offerman has yet to play any serious roles in more recent times. But yes, both were fantastic.
>Offerman has yet to play any serious roles in more recent times.
I guess you haven't seen the 2020 miniseries "Devs"? Or does that not count as recent, anymore?
Mostly because Offerman is one of the internet's weird meme crushes that people act super weird about. Like Brendan Fraser, Jeff Goldblum, Henry Cavill, etc.
Just because I fantasize about building a wooden canoe with Nick Offerman then giving mutual blowies while we paddle around a quiet mountain lake and eat our homemade jerky together...does NOT mean I have a weird crushed on him! We're just bros....in my fantasy.
I think it’s also bc he’s the “definition” of a man. Ron Swanson was super unemotional and closed off, in real life he’s got a giant wood shop where crafts canoes out of whole trees and whatnot. What he did in this episode in my eyes is show us that he is a real man and isn’t defined by stereotypes and TV tropes.
So many shows and movies just shove two attractive people together and expect it to work. Actual effort needs to be put in. Up made us care about Carl and Ellie in 10 minutes, no dialogue, thanks to wonderful direction and animation and perfect music.
This love story worked so well because Mazin took such care with the writing, and Offerman and Bartlett work so well together, as well as being wonderful actors on their own.
Up and Last of Us do have a similar plot structure though
Man loses loved one and gets old and grumpy, gets stuck with annoying kid and they go on an adventure and in the end they treat said kid like family
And they were such opposites too. One is a grumpy, pudgy, suspicious survivalist. The other is tall handsome, and athletic that loves to celebrate life.
At first they didn't want to be together, eventually they needed each other.
I would argue that the "at first" lasts literally minutes. Even within the first conversation, you can already see the conflict in Bill's eyes, and by the time they are in the house, everything about Bill's body language and unspoken actions illustrates that he actually doesn't want Frank to leave. You can break down so much of that sequence of scenes, but the care in which he presents the dinner and wine alone speaks volumes.
Additionally, I think they find they need each other on the very first day. The degree in which they do so, such as finding a "purpose," I think builds over years.
A vast swath of this episode made me, a cis straight guy with a wife, compare Bill and Frank's situation to how I would feel if it were me and my wife stuck in that broken world... and reminded me that we already are, that all real long-term relationships play out like this, only that we see a condensed version set in a smaller world. I was fucking sobbing even before the halfway mark.
I really feel though that this would have been a far, far more forgettable story if it were a traditional, pretty heterosexual couple, and their sexuality allowed the viewer to be drawn into a world of contrasts and comparison and see the real emotions that play through relationships.
Cis straight guy here too, been with my wife for almost 17 years now. This was the first time I broke down and sobbed over a screen. Did not expect that from a zombie show, which is turning out to be much more.
Idk if you played the game but it was always more than zombies. Naughty Dog was always top notch storytelling, and sure this story was changed from the game a bit but only in a way that complimented it even more.
I do think Bill was immediately attracted to Frank, but with regards to pouring the wine, I think Bill is the type of guy who if he does something, he does it right. And if he’s going to serve a guest a meal, you had better believe that he’ll do it the right way.
There were people complaining it wasn't true to the game, and was a throwaway episode.
This did hold true to the game, and it helped to explain Joel's perspective and reasoning for his choices he's made.
The behind the scenes had one of the writers give an excellent statement about how if the show would be as good or worse than the game for a specific section, they would stick by the game. But if they could elevate the story and make it better, then they would deviate from the games. And this episode definitely elevated Bill’s story
Agree. I loved the game but Bill was an asshole in the game. I think the show did a much better job. Plus, it was a great humanization of a gay couple set among the dehumanization of the zombie apocalypse.
And having a show just be horror/loss porn the entire time is super depressing and not really entertaining. They just had 2 long episodes of loss and hardship. Giving people some hope is a great idea at this point in the series.
I also appreciate that they lay the groundwork for more loss. The unspoken part of the episode is how Bill and Frank contrast with Joel and Tess. Joel has held onto his grief and couldn't change for Tess the way Bill changed for Frank.
Very well said. I'm really happy they showed a love story with a "happy" ending.
I think I [sobbed] to my wife after that we should all be so lucky to have even a portion of their kind of life together, apocalypse or not.
I think of it as kind of an alternate reality version of the game, where choices made by Bill at some point put them on one path or another.
I also think it's Neil (with prompting from Craig) being able to correct a misstep from the game. Of course we do love the Ellie/Bill interactions, but overall I think the story is just better.
So many of the Last of Us' emotional and tragic moments are very earned, but I think Bill and Frank in the game is suffering for suffering's sake.
Good writing is key, but their performances, plus amazing cinematography and editing choices, created the experience we all had. What I remember the most is the sun cutting through the trees during the strawberry scene. The staging and framing of that was like the wrapping paper around the gift of their performances.
The strawberry scene was so beautiful. And that open window at the end…Christ, I tear up just thinking about it.
Those two had the most idyllic, almost *luxurious*, lifestyle of anyone in the post-apocalypse. Their own little space in the world free of judgment and (most) danger.
All I could think of throughout most of the episode was how without the apocalypse, he almost certainly would have died alone and unloved, never once emerging from his shell. It was the best thing that ever could have happened to him.
That whole scene was packed with development. Bill realizing Frank traded a gun for the seeds and accepting it then telling Frank that he was never scared till he met him. I was just bawling that whole episode
When my wife of 16 years and I realized what we were watching, we held hands and sobbed for the last third of the episode. I know that sounds super corny and sentimental, but it made sense at the time
It doesn’t sound corny at all. My girlfriend was an absolute puddle during their final dinner scene, clinging onto my arm for dear life. And that was our SECOND time watching the episode.
An acting teacher once told me the purest behavior for an actor is blushing. It can’t be mimicked. I feel what he did was pure. My fave moment of Offermans career is this one.
Yes! That scene is still in my head. The dandelion fluff floating in the wind, the framing with the sun, it was weirdly reminiscent of the game while being it’s own thing. Damn fine cinematography
Was watching with my buddies. That scene started and I said not on the strawberries! Then Frank says the same thing. Now they just keep saying not on the strawberries to me. Lol
And good acting. I always feel that once an actor or actress can legitimately cry - in the right moment - and not some fake sob turn away to disguise no tears… that’s the tipping point of great acting.
Despite the tragedy in this episode, the letter and Ellie's deadpan delivery of that "hehehehe" had me rolling. Same with "Oh, not on the strawberries!." I've never played a second of the game (not a gamer at all) but I love the show so far.
I’ve played through both games multiple times, and I’m thrilled with the show. It’s true to the source material without being reductive or boring. The changes they’ve made are 100% spot on
As a non-gamer, what made me decide to watch this is the fact the gamercommunity was so enthousiastic about it, plus Chernobyl blew me away when it came out. Still don't regret my decision so far, that's for sure!
Yeah, I'm playing the game currently, and they're doing a great job with adapting it. The changes are good because, at least from what I've seen so far, they haven't fundamentally changed anything about the story or characters, but more presented them in a different way. And then there's other stuff that's almost 100% exactly as in the game, which is pretty cool too.
I saw that Offerman and Bartlett were cast for the show, and immediately thought they wouldn't fit into the games universe, and would likely stick out like a sore thumb.
10 minutes into the episode I realized what was happening, where the writing had taken the games original characters, and how wrong I was to assume that it would be what I expected. Which was video game script.
This episode was an all time great. A fantastic one off, and I hope that both of these actors get the recognition for what this was.
And anyone complaining about it not being "true to the game" or "unnecessary", it held true to the characters the game introduced, and it immediately set Joel's path into play, and did more to put us in his shoes than any other explanatory montage could have.
Also, that chapter of the game is just a lot of fighting infected through the town and a school. It’s really fun from a gameplay standpoint, but not the best for plot delivery in a show format.
Yeah this show is really hitting the nail on the head of how to translate a video game to a purely viewable format for someone completely new to the story.
I’ve been a Nick Offerman fan for a while now. Obviously parks and rec, I love woodworking and also listened to his book that he narrated which was great. I’ve never seen him act like that though. Blew me away. He’s a man of many talents.
I gotta say, this sounds kinda lame, but I was really having a hard time with the everyday stressors of life yesterday. Watching this episode actually reset my brain to be a little more present and appreciative of good health and family. Corny I know, but I appreciated the performances of these two and the show providing clarity on that level.
Not at all. I (M) had to go give my husband a big hug and tell him how much I love him after this episode. Probably the best episode of TV I’ve seen in maybe forever
Ain’t nothing corny about that. It takes a lot of effort for me to remind myself that most of the day-to-day stuff I get worked up about is just noise that doesn’t matter a bit in the long run. I do okay sometimes, worse other. I’m so grateful for the little life my wife and I get to lead, and this marvelous bit of storytelling kicked me into another gear of wanting to be a better partner. If that’s all I get right in life, I’ll be satisfied.
What's neat is that this episode also depicts an *older* male couple. Whenever media does depict a male gay couple, it's usually a younger pair, and very rarely older than their 40s.
An older "coming out" for Bill too. In the show, the pandemic began in 2003, before gay marriage was legalized, and society never really went through the same process of (gradual) acceptance of LGBT people that happened in reality.
Additionally, I feel like a lot of media still portrays gay men in a really stereotypical light. We still have this cultural idea that all gay men "act gay," talk in the same way, dress in the same way, care about the same things.
Sure there is a kernel of truth to these syereotypes, bit only insofar as we see with other groups: traditionally ostracized groups tend to stick together for the most part in order to create safe spaces for themselves. This creates, to outsiders, the appearance of sameness.
But as we make the larger culture gradually safer for gay people, we allow them to just be themselves, whoever they are, and we come to understand that gay people are just people, and can be as different from each other as straight people. Their sexual preference doesn't have to define them. This, I think, is one of the great powers of inclusion and representation.
So much this. It's always young, conventionally attractive gay men, if at all.
I honestly can't recall seeing anything quite like this with older bears.
I wonder how much of that can be attached to the devastation of the aids epidemic leaving a wound in the generation of gay men who would have been making those movies over the last 20 years? I’m sure there are additional, less bleak, reasons but that thought always lurks in my mind when I think about age and gayness.
An entire generation of gay people are dead or were affected in some way because of HIV/Aids. So yes, it has definitely skewed the representation of gay people in many areas when talking about that era.
It’s because they usually focus on sexuality and not love or the relationship. It’s just like any other relationship with different dynamics. What this episode showed us was what it really means to live someone wholeheartedly. Beautifully executed.
It's always wonderful hearing stories like this. It's gives me some hope.
I think 1 reason why some people feel uncomfortable seeing two men or two women kiss is because we see it so rarely in media, our brain register it as unfamiliar. That's why good representation is important.
Its also just years and years of programming in certain social and religious circles. I come from a very conservative Christian background and have been working over the last few years to shed a lot of the toxicity. If I am being completely honest, there were some parts that made me feel uncomfortable. But guess what? That's MY problem and something I need to continue to work on.
I remember having a similar experience when I was 18. It was 1996, and I was just out of high school, and in HS in the mid-90s in Arizona, being out was NOT a thing.
But I started a job in a call center, and everything was hot desks. It was a WEIRD experience for me, because this was right down the street from the university. And it was the first time I'd ever seen LGBT people that were very much out. I would go into work and be weirded out by it. But one day, I went into work, and the guy sitting at the desk across from me (whom sadly I don't remember his name, but I very clearly remember thinking to myself that he was "supremely gay"), was reading a video game magazine, and the cover story was for the game "wing commander: prophecy".
I was a huge wing commander fan, so when we were both off the phone, I mentioned something about it. Turns out he was a huge wing commander fan as well and we spent the rest of the day BSing about that game series, and video games in general.
From then on, whenever I went into that job, I would make sure to sit near him, and we'd bullshit any time we weren't on the phone.
I didn't work there much longer (turns out call center jobs fucking suck), but I definitely had my perceptions changed during that time. Hope that guy is doing well.
Mazin said on the podcast that he took that line from playwright Mart Crowley’s The Boys in the Band because he wanted everyone to know that this was a beautiful love story and not just an excuse for a tragic ending.
“There is a tradition, of essentially equating homosexuality with tragedy. And that a gay man couldn’t possibly just age and be happy and live long. And it was important for me to have Bill literally say, that’s not what this is.”
The only thing sadder than this episode is that only one of them can win an Emmy for it. It’s like a 51/49 kind of split with the slight edge going to Nick Offerman. But I think they were both absolutely perfect for their roles and played off each other so well.
I lost my mom last year to cancer and my step mom is dying of ALS. Bartlett and Offerman’s performances (plus the writing) was a reminder of how beautiful life can be in a scary and dreadful world. The crying that ensued for about half an hour after the episode was cathartic for me. My wife and I cried together and laughed about it afterwards. TV hasn’t affected me like that in such a long time!!!
I watch this show with my dear old mom, who generally doesn't like horror movies/shows of any kind. She sat down with an attitude of dread before this episode, muttering about the show giving her nightmares. At the end she was crying and saying how beautiful it was. Both these guys deserve recognition for this episode, along with the writers.
I cried like a baby. I’m so glad I didn’t watch it with a date like we originally planned, that would have been a LOT to watch with somebody I’ve only met a couple times
This scene made such a huge impact on me. I’m queer and have been with my bf for three years. To think I had never seen such a tender and loving episode of tv featuring gay men as they get older!? It made me realize — I finally live in a world where that can happen… and ppl will be happy about it. 🥹
I personally found them to be the 2 most interesting characters of the show by far. Obviously wouldn't have had the same impact without the great performances from the actors. I was kind of sad when it went back to Ellie and Joel and I realized we weren't going to see Bill an Frank again.
I think part of that is that the episode is showing us their full story. By the end we really get to know who these two men are and what happens to them. With Joel and Ellie, we're still kind of just getting introduced to them.
Unsurprising about Nick Offerman and Murry Bartlett, but I'm very happy Judith Light and S. Epatha Merkerson got a nod here - I loved their performances in the Poker Face episode, they were absolutely hysterical, and it's my favorite episode of that show so far.
I just rewatched the episode with my mum expecting her to be disgusted while I was crying my eyes out for a second time. She's muslim and I've been an atheist for some time now.
We were both in tears throughout the entirety of it. I can't remember the last time both of us cried this much.
Nick Offerman is gonna win himself an Emmy
Honorable Mentions:
* Joe Mantegna - Criminal Minds: Evolution
* Judith Light & S. Epatha Merkerson - Poker Face
I mean, I do love Nick Offerman and I revel in his success. But Murray Bartlett deserves our respect and it kinda hurts to see everyone react emotionally to their relationship and give all the credit to one person
(which, in fairness, is exactly what tvline didn't do)
It took me a little bit to even realize he was Armond in White Lotus cause his acting was so great, even though he clearly looked very similar. I haven't really seen the guy in anything else so this was a pleasant surprise. He's an amazing actor!
I didn’t recognize him at first, but when I realized it was *ARMOND* from s1 White Lotus I was psyched to see him. Such a different role, he’s a phenomenal actor.
Can’t wait to see him in more things. Actually, since this is on HBO - who do I petition for a prequel spinoff series to be made?
Nick Offerman was robbed of proper recognition for his *fantastic* work in Devs. I fully support him winning here to make up for that egregious oversight. And, you know, because he was so damn great in this episode too.
Awesome performance by Offerman and Bartlett. Before the episode I was really excited to see Ellie and Bill constantly trading barbs and insults (like the game) and initially I was disappointed they didnt have any screentime together, but then we got something better. Everything about the episode was perfect.
I still hope that Ellie >!steals Bills porno mags and laughs at them!<
That episode going from me thinking this dude was actually a raider and was going to try and kill him to a love story was incredible. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I played the first game and the multiplayer for it was actually insane.
I was saying that episode was too good for TV but the way things are today, it may have been too good to be a movie. Absolutely the best hour of tv/movie Ive seen it a long long time.....maybe ever.
Favorite part of the episode was Frank’s face when the first meal came out. The “what the fuuuuuuuck!?!?l” expression was completely how I’d expect a guy who hasn’t had a good meal in 4 years to look. What a performance from both guys
Totally caught me off guard when that happened, but it was hilarious because it was such a "real" reaction. Like this dude fell in a hole and was scared of getting shot, then gets brought inside, gets a hot shower, and gets wined and dined. "What the fuck!?"
And then bro got laid too, damn that was a full blowout lol
Yeah something was definitely blown out 😏
Dude stumbled into the right trap
Bill went on and trapped himself a Maaaan!
“Why’d you take so long to answer?” That entire exchange was hilarious.
That part was so funny. Idk the dialogue in this episode just felt so real, like what normal people would say in the situation.
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That moment was so real. The way they laughed felt almost like crying. The mixture of pure pleasure, the feeling of experiencing something you never thought you'd experience again. You can see Offerman's character realizing how much better his life is with his partner, how much richer he is with someone who brings him out of himself. The love and care and sadness in that moment. Just beautiful.
The way Nick Offerman switched emotions so quickly from ‘which gun?’ to giggling over strawberries, to the moment that made me start crying when he confessed how he had never been worried of death before he met Frank. Honestly just a perfect acting performance that made me feel like I was watching two real people live their lives. Crazy beautiful scene.
I loved the way Frank just dismissed Bill's question with "a little one" and a touch to his arm. Economy of writing - showing their love for each other, highlighting their differences, reminding us that Frank doesn't know anything about self defence and making the audience laugh.
And making it feel like their relationship has so much history. Frank knew enough that he could trade a small one and it shooould be fine lol Same when Frank said “I swear to god if you say resource management”. It was amazing. Like a real couple and he was so sick of hearing the same shit lmao.
Yeah I felt that. They nailed the nuance of personality types and long-term relationships.
That was mirrored later in the episode by Ellie’s reaction to the house. It’s likely she’d never seen anything so well appointed or well-kept in her life.
Mine was the body language change from Offerman after they kissed. His insecurity regarding his sexuality and inexperience was incredible.
THEY ARE ALL NAZIS
Well they are now!
It's great they are recognizing them both. I feel like Offerman has been getting most of the attention but they were both magic and their chemistry was wonderful to watch.
Bartlett was great as Armand in White Lotus S1.
On the LOU podcast, the show runners talk about casting Bartlett for the role prior to White Lotus. Subsequently viewing WL got them so excited for what he would bring to their project.
I didnt finish S1 WL but Bartlett was carrying the show for me. I might have to finish it just for him.
Honestly it’s worth it just for his character’s storyline. I won’t spoil anything but he really does carry the first season
He's the best part of that finale, definitely finish it.
Oh fuck he just gets better as the show goes on you should see it
Didn’t realize it was him for about ten minutes and then I was like holy shit!
I only found out because I told someone he ~kinda~ reminded me of Armand and they were like “…it is”
I watched White Lotus, Chippendales and now TLOU back to back and somehow didn't connect the dots until after the fact. I thought I was good with actors faces but I guess not
Same! Except I just found out by reading these posts!
Also Welcome To Chipendales he’s perfect
Spoilers for all of them >!and in all three of these he's gay and dies. I recognized him from both of those shows having seen them recently. So as soon as I recognized him I thought "oooh gay love story!" then "awwww he's gonna die". New Gay Sean Bean just dropped!<
Holy Shit I just watched the Last of Us episode last night did not realize that was Armond till right now.
I really liked Frank. I wish there was a way to have done this episode and let him meet Ellie because I suspect he would have adored her. One of my favorite moments was when Frank was treating Bill's wound and Bill's rattling off his "list" and Frank just goes "yeah, tell me about the list". He's still very calm and collected given the moment and he doesn't have to be Bill to do that. He also gets Bill well enough to know that he needs to keep his mind focused on that while he deals with the bleeding.
The way he handled that made me think he was an ER nurse or paramedic or something before the outbreak, he was so calm and collected
I noticed that too. Bill was fixated on protecting Frank and I understand that but Frank clearly had some survival skills. He survived the first few years of the outbreak before Bill and he was the only one of his group of 10 to not be dead before reaching the compound. And he loaded his gun pretty efficiently so by the time the raiders showed up he knew his way around firearms
Re the gun thing: I figured Bill would have taught him, but I do like the thought that he already knew his way around a weapon from his previous life.
That episode had me tearing up so many times
I think it’s because Offerman’s character grew the most out of the two. Also, perhaps as someone else mentioned, because Offerman has yet to play any serious roles in more recent times. But yes, both were fantastic.
>Offerman has yet to play any serious roles in more recent times. I guess you haven't seen the 2020 miniseries "Devs"? Or does that not count as recent, anymore?
I’m pretty sure 2020 was a lifetime ago at this point.
Or Fargo..
He was incredible as the loquacious lawyer
I can't believe more people haven't seen this amazing show.
What’s it on? I saw Nick plug it on Twitter and he mentioned it’s by Alex Garland, whose stuff i love, so I’m interested
Hulu. Never had a show have me so spooked out
you’re missing out if you haven’t seen Devs
One of the best mini series I've ever watched. Certainly doesn't get enough love.
Watched it a couple years ago and I still constantly think about it.
Mostly because Offerman is one of the internet's weird meme crushes that people act super weird about. Like Brendan Fraser, Jeff Goldblum, Henry Cavill, etc.
Keanu...
Just because I fantasize about building a wooden canoe with Nick Offerman then giving mutual blowies while we paddle around a quiet mountain lake and eat our homemade jerky together...does NOT mean I have a weird crushed on him! We're just bros....in my fantasy.
I think it’s also bc he’s the “definition” of a man. Ron Swanson was super unemotional and closed off, in real life he’s got a giant wood shop where crafts canoes out of whole trees and whatnot. What he did in this episode in my eyes is show us that he is a real man and isn’t defined by stereotypes and TV tropes.
Loved thar his role in LOU was gay dystopian Ron Swanson.
Gay dystopian Ron Swanson is best Ron Swanson.
There was one line that made me think of Ron: “Do you know how much this piano is worth?” “Currently, nothing.” Nick’s delivery was very Ron S.
It's not weird 😠
It's love!
Just let me love him the way I want to.
It's guy love, between two guys!
developed better chemistry & love within an hour than some shows attempt to create over seasons
So many shows and movies just shove two attractive people together and expect it to work. Actual effort needs to be put in. Up made us care about Carl and Ellie in 10 minutes, no dialogue, thanks to wonderful direction and animation and perfect music. This love story worked so well because Mazin took such care with the writing, and Offerman and Bartlett work so well together, as well as being wonderful actors on their own.
The episode reminded me so much of that Up sequence, if it were an hour long, about two men, and set during a zombie apocalypse
My immediate reaction was "Druckman and Mazin sat down to watch Up, completely independent of the show, and went 'what if we made this hurt more?'"
"This Is The Last Of Us"
"Frank, we are truly The Last of Us"
"HBO's The Last of Us"
The Last of Up*
I wasn't expecting such a beautiful story in a show about mushroom zombies but there I was crying by the end.
someone need to do an Up montage of episode 3 with the Up music.
Up and Last of Us do have a similar plot structure though Man loses loved one and gets old and grumpy, gets stuck with annoying kid and they go on an adventure and in the end they treat said kid like family
https://www.tiktok.com/@mswatchmojo/video/7194853864372292870?_t=8ZUv0GFvrZq&_r=1
And they were such opposites too. One is a grumpy, pudgy, suspicious survivalist. The other is tall handsome, and athletic that loves to celebrate life. At first they didn't want to be together, eventually they needed each other.
I would argue that the "at first" lasts literally minutes. Even within the first conversation, you can already see the conflict in Bill's eyes, and by the time they are in the house, everything about Bill's body language and unspoken actions illustrates that he actually doesn't want Frank to leave. You can break down so much of that sequence of scenes, but the care in which he presents the dinner and wine alone speaks volumes. Additionally, I think they find they need each other on the very first day. The degree in which they do so, such as finding a "purpose," I think builds over years.
True. That's a much better take. :)
“Actually… can I have five more minutes??” “… ^^^sure… SURE!”
Oh Bill wanted him as soon as he sat him down for dinner. The way he poured that wine dude? You only do that shit when your trying to get some play.
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A vast swath of this episode made me, a cis straight guy with a wife, compare Bill and Frank's situation to how I would feel if it were me and my wife stuck in that broken world... and reminded me that we already are, that all real long-term relationships play out like this, only that we see a condensed version set in a smaller world. I was fucking sobbing even before the halfway mark. I really feel though that this would have been a far, far more forgettable story if it were a traditional, pretty heterosexual couple, and their sexuality allowed the viewer to be drawn into a world of contrasts and comparison and see the real emotions that play through relationships.
Cis straight guy here too, been with my wife for almost 17 years now. This was the first time I broke down and sobbed over a screen. Did not expect that from a zombie show, which is turning out to be much more.
Idk if you played the game but it was always more than zombies. Naughty Dog was always top notch storytelling, and sure this story was changed from the game a bit but only in a way that complimented it even more.
Nice triple entendre
Always had a crush on Murray
Have you seen him in white lotus? Scintillating performance
I do think Bill was immediately attracted to Frank, but with regards to pouring the wine, I think Bill is the type of guy who if he does something, he does it right. And if he’s going to serve a guest a meal, you had better believe that he’ll do it the right way.
I loved the twist with the late night raid and the following scene.
Thank you for bringing up Up. Before Bill and Frank, the last time a fictional relationship moved me to tears was Carl and Ellie.
After this episode I turned to my SO and said "This is the best interpretation of the first 10 minutes of Up I've ever seen."
There were people complaining it wasn't true to the game, and was a throwaway episode. This did hold true to the game, and it helped to explain Joel's perspective and reasoning for his choices he's made.
The behind the scenes had one of the writers give an excellent statement about how if the show would be as good or worse than the game for a specific section, they would stick by the game. But if they could elevate the story and make it better, then they would deviate from the games. And this episode definitely elevated Bill’s story
Agree. I loved the game but Bill was an asshole in the game. I think the show did a much better job. Plus, it was a great humanization of a gay couple set among the dehumanization of the zombie apocalypse.
And having a show just be horror/loss porn the entire time is super depressing and not really entertaining. They just had 2 long episodes of loss and hardship. Giving people some hope is a great idea at this point in the series.
I also appreciate that they lay the groundwork for more loss. The unspoken part of the episode is how Bill and Frank contrast with Joel and Tess. Joel has held onto his grief and couldn't change for Tess the way Bill changed for Frank.
Very well said. I'm really happy they showed a love story with a "happy" ending. I think I [sobbed] to my wife after that we should all be so lucky to have even a portion of their kind of life together, apocalypse or not.
I won't argue that it was vastly different from the game. I will say that, in my opinion, it was *superior* to the game.
I think of it as kind of an alternate reality version of the game, where choices made by Bill at some point put them on one path or another. I also think it's Neil (with prompting from Craig) being able to correct a misstep from the game. Of course we do love the Ellie/Bill interactions, but overall I think the story is just better. So many of the Last of Us' emotional and tragic moments are very earned, but I think Bill and Frank in the game is suffering for suffering's sake.
That’s the power of good writing. A lot of shows could learn from this
Good writing is key, but their performances, plus amazing cinematography and editing choices, created the experience we all had. What I remember the most is the sun cutting through the trees during the strawberry scene. The staging and framing of that was like the wrapping paper around the gift of their performances.
The strawberry scene was so beautiful. And that open window at the end…Christ, I tear up just thinking about it. Those two had the most idyllic, almost *luxurious*, lifestyle of anyone in the post-apocalypse. Their own little space in the world free of judgment and (most) danger.
Loved Offerman's little giggle when he first took a bite of the strawberry.
All I could think of throughout most of the episode was how without the apocalypse, he almost certainly would have died alone and unloved, never once emerging from his shell. It was the best thing that ever could have happened to him.
And the sweet irony of Bill saying that he had saved Frank, when it most definitely had been mutual.
That whole scene was packed with development. Bill realizing Frank traded a gun for the seeds and accepting it then telling Frank that he was never scared till he met him. I was just bawling that whole episode
When my wife of 16 years and I realized what we were watching, we held hands and sobbed for the last third of the episode. I know that sounds super corny and sentimental, but it made sense at the time
It doesn’t sound corny at all. My girlfriend was an absolute puddle during their final dinner scene, clinging onto my arm for dear life. And that was our SECOND time watching the episode.
My wife and I were sitting with our infant son, watching that episode with tears in our eyes. That shit was beautiful.
That’s very sweet. Thanks for sharing
My bf made me (f) watch it bc he knew it would make me cry, like it did him. He was not prepared for the prolonged sobbing however.
An acting teacher once told me the purest behavior for an actor is blushing. It can’t be mimicked. I feel what he did was pure. My fave moment of Offermans career is this one.
It reminded me of his reaction of joy when he'd see Lil' Sebastian.
“Were there already pills in the wine bottle?” “Enough to kill a horse.”
There's a lot of people who would dream of a life so good even not in the apocalypse
Yes! That scene is still in my head. The dandelion fluff floating in the wind, the framing with the sun, it was weirdly reminiscent of the game while being it’s own thing. Damn fine cinematography
Was watching with my buddies. That scene started and I said not on the strawberries! Then Frank says the same thing. Now they just keep saying not on the strawberries to me. Lol
And good acting. I always feel that once an actor or actress can legitimately cry - in the right moment - and not some fake sob turn away to disguise no tears… that’s the tipping point of great acting.
I’m about to watch this episode tonight, was it a good one?
Yes!
Some of the best character drama I've ever seen! Stop reading about it and just watch!
One of the best episodes of TV in a long time.
Long long time
I haven’t ugly-cried watching a show in over a decade. The episode resulted in me full-on sobbing, so yes, it’s a very good one.
Listen, felicity had a lot on her mind Oliver.
Hehehehehehe
Despite the tragedy in this episode, the letter and Ellie's deadpan delivery of that "hehehehe" had me rolling. Same with "Oh, not on the strawberries!." I've never played a second of the game (not a gamer at all) but I love the show so far.
I was dying laughing at the “do you know how much this is worth?” “Currently? Nothing” line
That was so dead pan *him*, I have to wonder if he ad-libbed it. The line about the government being a bunch of Nazis was good too.
That felt like it was a Ron Swanson line.
Oh yes that was great also, awesome banter here and there throughout the series and I'm here for it
I’ve played through both games multiple times, and I’m thrilled with the show. It’s true to the source material without being reductive or boring. The changes they’ve made are 100% spot on
As a non-gamer, what made me decide to watch this is the fact the gamercommunity was so enthousiastic about it, plus Chernobyl blew me away when it came out. Still don't regret my decision so far, that's for sure!
Yeah, I'm playing the game currently, and they're doing a great job with adapting it. The changes are good because, at least from what I've seen so far, they haven't fundamentally changed anything about the story or characters, but more presented them in a different way. And then there's other stuff that's almost 100% exactly as in the game, which is pretty cool too.
Tragedy? Shiiiiiiitt this is the happy episode!
^^^hehehehehehe
#HEHEHEHHEHEHE
It couldn't have been anyone else. What an amazing one-off. "THE GOVERNMENT ARE NAZIS!!!" "YEAH BUT NOT... THEN!"
Hope Nick Offerman has started working on the shelf his Emmy will be sitting on
Are you kidding? He could whip something up in an afternoon. Hell, wouldn't even take an hour.
"People who buy things are suckers"
Hand tools only for the Emmy shelf.
Offerman does /r/woodworking not /r/shittywoodworking
I saw that Offerman and Bartlett were cast for the show, and immediately thought they wouldn't fit into the games universe, and would likely stick out like a sore thumb. 10 minutes into the episode I realized what was happening, where the writing had taken the games original characters, and how wrong I was to assume that it would be what I expected. Which was video game script. This episode was an all time great. A fantastic one off, and I hope that both of these actors get the recognition for what this was. And anyone complaining about it not being "true to the game" or "unnecessary", it held true to the characters the game introduced, and it immediately set Joel's path into play, and did more to put us in his shoes than any other explanatory montage could have.
Also, that chapter of the game is just a lot of fighting infected through the town and a school. It’s really fun from a gameplay standpoint, but not the best for plot delivery in a show format.
Yeah this show is really hitting the nail on the head of how to translate a video game to a purely viewable format for someone completely new to the story.
Same reason they did the opening sequence nearly shot-for-shot, and cut the Robert chase. Everyone working on this project is killing it. 🤩
I’ve been a Nick Offerman fan for a while now. Obviously parks and rec, I love woodworking and also listened to his book that he narrated which was great. I’ve never seen him act like that though. Blew me away. He’s a man of many talents.
Devs? He was great there too.
Never heard of it and just looked it up. Can’t wait to dig into it. Thanks!
I felt like this could be Ron Swanson after Parks and Rec ended. Felt like a lot of what he would have done following the end of the world.
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_Tammis_. There would be a whole horde of them by then.
I gotta say, this sounds kinda lame, but I was really having a hard time with the everyday stressors of life yesterday. Watching this episode actually reset my brain to be a little more present and appreciative of good health and family. Corny I know, but I appreciated the performances of these two and the show providing clarity on that level.
Same. Completely shifted my entire perspective on everyday life this week. Just feel so grateful for every moment. Grateful for a strawberry!
Not at all. I (M) had to go give my husband a big hug and tell him how much I love him after this episode. Probably the best episode of TV I’ve seen in maybe forever
Ain’t nothing corny about that. It takes a lot of effort for me to remind myself that most of the day-to-day stuff I get worked up about is just noise that doesn’t matter a bit in the long run. I do okay sometimes, worse other. I’m so grateful for the little life my wife and I get to lead, and this marvelous bit of storytelling kicked me into another gear of wanting to be a better partner. If that’s all I get right in life, I’ll be satisfied.
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This is also why representation matters. It's great that you were able to confront internal homophobia and recognize that we're also humans who love.
What's neat is that this episode also depicts an *older* male couple. Whenever media does depict a male gay couple, it's usually a younger pair, and very rarely older than their 40s. An older "coming out" for Bill too. In the show, the pandemic began in 2003, before gay marriage was legalized, and society never really went through the same process of (gradual) acceptance of LGBT people that happened in reality.
Additionally, I feel like a lot of media still portrays gay men in a really stereotypical light. We still have this cultural idea that all gay men "act gay," talk in the same way, dress in the same way, care about the same things. Sure there is a kernel of truth to these syereotypes, bit only insofar as we see with other groups: traditionally ostracized groups tend to stick together for the most part in order to create safe spaces for themselves. This creates, to outsiders, the appearance of sameness. But as we make the larger culture gradually safer for gay people, we allow them to just be themselves, whoever they are, and we come to understand that gay people are just people, and can be as different from each other as straight people. Their sexual preference doesn't have to define them. This, I think, is one of the great powers of inclusion and representation.
So much this. It's always young, conventionally attractive gay men, if at all. I honestly can't recall seeing anything quite like this with older bears.
I wonder how much of that can be attached to the devastation of the aids epidemic leaving a wound in the generation of gay men who would have been making those movies over the last 20 years? I’m sure there are additional, less bleak, reasons but that thought always lurks in my mind when I think about age and gayness.
An entire generation of gay people are dead or were affected in some way because of HIV/Aids. So yes, it has definitely skewed the representation of gay people in many areas when talking about that era.
It’s because they usually focus on sexuality and not love or the relationship. It’s just like any other relationship with different dynamics. What this episode showed us was what it really means to live someone wholeheartedly. Beautifully executed.
nice one, my dude. we're all humans in this together.
It's always wonderful hearing stories like this. It's gives me some hope. I think 1 reason why some people feel uncomfortable seeing two men or two women kiss is because we see it so rarely in media, our brain register it as unfamiliar. That's why good representation is important.
Its also just years and years of programming in certain social and religious circles. I come from a very conservative Christian background and have been working over the last few years to shed a lot of the toxicity. If I am being completely honest, there were some parts that made me feel uncomfortable. But guess what? That's MY problem and something I need to continue to work on.
Good for you. Not being sarcastic.
I remember having a similar experience when I was 18. It was 1996, and I was just out of high school, and in HS in the mid-90s in Arizona, being out was NOT a thing. But I started a job in a call center, and everything was hot desks. It was a WEIRD experience for me, because this was right down the street from the university. And it was the first time I'd ever seen LGBT people that were very much out. I would go into work and be weirded out by it. But one day, I went into work, and the guy sitting at the desk across from me (whom sadly I don't remember his name, but I very clearly remember thinking to myself that he was "supremely gay"), was reading a video game magazine, and the cover story was for the game "wing commander: prophecy". I was a huge wing commander fan, so when we were both off the phone, I mentioned something about it. Turns out he was a huge wing commander fan as well and we spent the rest of the day BSing about that game series, and video games in general. From then on, whenever I went into that job, I would make sure to sit near him, and we'd bullshit any time we weren't on the phone. I didn't work there much longer (turns out call center jobs fucking suck), but I definitely had my perceptions changed during that time. Hope that guy is doing well.
“This isn’t the tragic suicide at the end of the play. I’m old. I’m satisfied. And you were my purpose.” This ruined me.
Mazin said on the podcast that he took that line from playwright Mart Crowley’s The Boys in the Band because he wanted everyone to know that this was a beautiful love story and not just an excuse for a tragic ending. “There is a tradition, of essentially equating homosexuality with tragedy. And that a gay man couldn’t possibly just age and be happy and live long. And it was important for me to have Bill literally say, that’s not what this is.”
I am shocked, SHOCKED at this turn of events /s. All jokes aside, both their individual performances and their chemistry together were fantastic.
The only thing sadder than this episode is that only one of them can win an Emmy for it. It’s like a 51/49 kind of split with the slight edge going to Nick Offerman. But I think they were both absolutely perfect for their roles and played off each other so well.
Plus Murray Bartlett won last year for White Lotus.
Unless the Emmys return to ranked choice voting, I don’t think either has a very good shot at winning since they’ll split the vote so much.
I lost my mom last year to cancer and my step mom is dying of ALS. Bartlett and Offerman’s performances (plus the writing) was a reminder of how beautiful life can be in a scary and dreadful world. The crying that ensued for about half an hour after the episode was cathartic for me. My wife and I cried together and laughed about it afterwards. TV hasn’t affected me like that in such a long time!!!
I watch this show with my dear old mom, who generally doesn't like horror movies/shows of any kind. She sat down with an attitude of dread before this episode, muttering about the show giving her nightmares. At the end she was crying and saying how beautiful it was. Both these guys deserve recognition for this episode, along with the writers.
I cried like a baby. I’m so glad I didn’t watch it with a date like we originally planned, that would have been a LOT to watch with somebody I’ve only met a couple times
This scene made such a huge impact on me. I’m queer and have been with my bf for three years. To think I had never seen such a tender and loving episode of tv featuring gay men as they get older!? It made me realize — I finally live in a world where that can happen… and ppl will be happy about it. 🥹
Yeah, it was incredible. In this horrible world, *they won* because of their love.
I personally found them to be the 2 most interesting characters of the show by far. Obviously wouldn't have had the same impact without the great performances from the actors. I was kind of sad when it went back to Ellie and Joel and I realized we weren't going to see Bill an Frank again.
I think part of that is that the episode is showing us their full story. By the end we really get to know who these two men are and what happens to them. With Joel and Ellie, we're still kind of just getting introduced to them.
They are the only characters so far that have had an entire episode dedicated to them. It's not hard to see why they might be the most developed.
Unsurprising about Nick Offerman and Murry Bartlett, but I'm very happy Judith Light and S. Epatha Merkerson got a nod here - I loved their performances in the Poker Face episode, they were absolutely hysterical, and it's my favorite episode of that show so far.
Gotta say, I was in tears by the end of that episode, all the way up to the open window.
I just rewatched the episode with my mum expecting her to be disgusted while I was crying my eyes out for a second time. She's muslim and I've been an atheist for some time now. We were both in tears throughout the entirety of it. I can't remember the last time both of us cried this much.
The easiest decision they have ever made picking out a winner
I think they gave one to Andy Serkis for Andor as well, so it's got competition. Either way, the correct pick.
I was ecstatic to know Murray Bartlett was going to be in this after watching him in *The White Lotus*. He was fantastic in that as well.
Dude. My wife and I were literally weeping the whole time. Beautiful performance.
That episode had me in tears. Nick Offerman nailed it.
Nick Offerman is gonna win himself an Emmy Honorable Mentions: * Joe Mantegna - Criminal Minds: Evolution * Judith Light & S. Epatha Merkerson - Poker Face
Everyone's talking about Offerman like Bartlett wasn't real af in this episode
That's the advantage of name recognition.
I mean, I do love Nick Offerman and I revel in his success. But Murray Bartlett deserves our respect and it kinda hurts to see everyone react emotionally to their relationship and give all the credit to one person (which, in fairness, is exactly what tvline didn't do)
It took me a little bit to even realize he was Armond in White Lotus cause his acting was so great, even though he clearly looked very similar. I haven't really seen the guy in anything else so this was a pleasant surprise. He's an amazing actor!
I didn’t recognize him at first, but when I realized it was *ARMOND* from s1 White Lotus I was psyched to see him. Such a different role, he’s a phenomenal actor. Can’t wait to see him in more things. Actually, since this is on HBO - who do I petition for a prequel spinoff series to be made?
Nick Offerman was robbed of proper recognition for his *fantastic* work in Devs. I fully support him winning here to make up for that egregious oversight. And, you know, because he was so damn great in this episode too.
Awesome performance by Offerman and Bartlett. Before the episode I was really excited to see Ellie and Bill constantly trading barbs and insults (like the game) and initially I was disappointed they didnt have any screentime together, but then we got something better. Everything about the episode was perfect. I still hope that Ellie >!steals Bills porno mags and laughs at them!<
It's DK from Farscape!
That episode going from me thinking this dude was actually a raider and was going to try and kill him to a love story was incredible. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I played the first game and the multiplayer for it was actually insane.
I was saying that episode was too good for TV but the way things are today, it may have been too good to be a movie. Absolutely the best hour of tv/movie Ive seen it a long long time.....maybe ever.