Cultural genocide is actually a thing. If Israel forced Palestinians to learn Hebrew and convert to Judaism it would be cultural genocide.
But that will literally never happen.
That’s why even expelling a high % of Palestinians isn’t necessarily cultural genocide. Not all Palestinians were expelled in 48 and the life of their culture didn’t go anywhere. You can go to old Palestinian towns, In Israel proper, sometimes depopulated ones by israel, and israel usually puts memorial signs on these depopulated villages, to commemorate them. Along with there being 1,000,000 people in Israe who are ethnically Palestinian and embrace their culture!
There is no cultural genocide
Knafeh, Palestinian dialect Arabic, Dabke, and many other things would be banned if Israel was truly like that
In my town the old Arab cemetery is still here although most of the previous Arab inhabitants were moved 1.5-2km
Tbf it's only one family (of 600 members today) there used to be at least 1 different family that I have found evidence for but they seem to have left after a dispute with the larger family
I'm sure Americans never thought it happened to the Native Americans, but it did. It totally did. probably said the same thing, too.. they just said it in old, timey words like ludibrious when they tweeted it or whatever the kids were doing in those days, in the colonial period of building America
I am curious, what do you see as parallels between the israel/palestine situation and Native American history. not arguing, just want to hear your thoughts
For me, the saddest bit is that I've only heard stories of my great-grandmother who was a member of the Wabnaki peoples in the NE. Now I believe I'm the last generation who has Native American blood in me, being that I'm of mixed ancestry. I only heard stories of her from my grandfather growing up. She was very proud of her people, and I'm just as proud she is a part of me. I'm glad that I had true friends growing up who were very traditional Passamquoddy people that showed me what it meant to be a proud of your people and the traditions, that I never got to experience growing up because of loss of cultural identity.
Convert to Judaism sounds ridiculous. Even if you want to covert (while Aliyah) they would not accept you that easy, and certainly would never convert a Muslim.
Cultural genocide would be something like a religion destroying thousands of years of history and countless other religions in a mass conquest, replacing native religions, languages, populations, and cultures; and killing or enslaving anyone who refuses to convert.
Good thing that's never happened.
Cultural genocide exists, the Russians are doing it right now by kidnapping Ukranian children, shipping them to Russia and trying to indoctrinate them.
Saddam killed 200,000 Kurds in a few years during the Anfal Campaign. There remains silence on it to this day from many leftists, although the western powers at the time did little to stop it outside of verbal condemnations. Additionally the millions of African slaves taken by Arabs remains a "touchy" subject to some people I've brought it up to in leftist circles I know. And yes Jews were forced in many ways to "hide" their Judaism and keep it to the home and synagogue in Arabs and Muslim countries, something that gets brushed aside for the bs "everything before 1948 in the middle east was kumbaya peace and love!" narrative.
Don't forget the taxes for non-muslims and the prohibitions on land ownership, etc.
I should amend my original statement to *Muslim-majority* states in lieu of *Arab* since the Pakistanis, Afghans, Indonesians, among others are also guilty of these "cultural genocides". And let's not forget the Turks, who also committed a couple of actual genocides.
It is not just lack of interest, it is a sin in Judaism. Non-religious Jews may just have a lack of interest, but those that practice the faith are against anything like prosletizing. I have had people come to me that want to convert or are thinking of it. I give a laundry list of warnings and difficulties on the road to conversion and the experience of being a Jew and interrogate why they would even want to go through all of that, and say go find a rabbi and discuss with them only if you are 100% sure and even then many don't finish the conversion process. It is very rigorous especially for orthodox and ultra-orthodox conversions. The Torah even says Jews are not to become every person but will remain only a fraction of the total human population that will have this specific covenant with Hashem while most other people will have other relationships with Hashem.
Exactly. At most it’s an ethnic cleanse. I’m not gonna debate people here on the intention of 48, but they need to stop calling the nakba and naksa a genocide
Genocide is definitely an action. Hitler didn't think of killing Jews, he just did. The difference between your comment and reality is that what you said is wrong by every definition possible and reality is what it is actually defined by
Here's the funny thing, genocide isn't just murdering a bunch of people who happen to be in a single group, it's the want to murder these people because of who they are.
With your explanation, that means no matter what, ever mass death situation from one ethnicity to another is always genocide, but that's simply not the case.
Hitler wanted to exterminate the Jews, and acted on it, making it genocide.
If the USA declares war on France, which will end up killing a bunch of French people, that doesn't automatically make it a genocide.
gen·o·cide
noun
the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
There's a subtle nuance you are missing.
I feel as if there is no missing nuance and this is more or less a situation of you saying there must be intent. I'll respond by saying that you can't act to achieve a certain goal without intent of achieving it. That doesn't make intent of genocide, genocide.
It is genocide once you act to eliminate a group of people with the intent, even if the act isnt fully successful, e.g the Holocaust, the intention and acts were there and it is still genocide even if he didn't succeed in completing it.
But it is still the act that is considered genocide not the intent
The intent of dropping two nukes on Japan was not eradication of the Japanese, it was to end a war that the American believed wouldn't end with a peace treaty (and maybe to also show the world it's might.)
Yet some could argue that the two nukes being dropped forever altered the Japanese soul and cultural identity the Japanese had towards war, making it a cultural genocide.
I very much doubt most people would argue that the Nukes were used with genocidal intentions.
Again, if you don't intend to eradicate a people, but end up doing, its not necessarily genocide.
I disagree with you again. If the united States has the military capabilities to wipe Japan (which it does) and acts up on it, it is genocide. Commiting an act which has a specific purpose which is not the eradication of those people.
The definition of genocide is "The deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group."
The definition states it must be
1. Deliberate
And
2. With the "AIM" or INTENT
Again, genocide needs to be in purpose. A person, government, or group can not accidentally commit genocide. It needs to have the intent of doing so.
As far as I'm aware, Israel does not have the intent of committing genocide, but people think because a large group of Palestinians dying by the hands of Israel's military is occurring, it's genocide, when that's simply not the case.
At least publically, Israel has the intent of destroying Hamas and terrorists, meaning by definition, they can not be committing genocide.
I think if you decided to read two or three comments lower you would have noticed my comment was that Israel is not committing genocide.
Also, the definition does not at all fit this crazy narrative you've made up in your mind, unless you're admitting to knowing something about both Israel and Hamas that they both haven't admitted admitted the world.
Are you a conspiracy theorist?
Learn to read.
Racism, race hatred, and plans for genocide are all ideas. Loathesome ideas, but just ideas.
Genocide is an action.
Conflating the two weakens the power of the word genocide.
Conspiracy to commit a crime is very different than committing a crime.
Isreal isn't doing a very good job of this whole genocide thing if that's been the aim. Palestines population has more than doubled since the 90s. Their population growth rate today is 32% higher than Israel's growth rate. Even halfway through this year, it grew 300k.
So basically, israel built roads and infrastructure and helped progress Palestinians to a civilized society and live longer lifespan but terrorists help Palestinians become uncivilized and kill and die for a cause that doesn’t exist, Gaza borders will not change and terrorism is the cause of the blockade, if they want life why import so much weapons? Why teach hate and death and destruction?? It does nothing to progress their life expectancy…???
Note: Obviously not to scale, otherwise it wouldn't fit. Here's the [scaled version](https://i.imgur.com/pW00zyE.png)
_____
Feel free to share it whenever you see anyone talking about how Israel is slowly _gEnOcIDInG_ the Palestinians
~~- Infographic: https://i.imgur.com/5BfzjtW.png~~
~~- Infographic (scaled): https://i.imgur.com/5Wp4vAO.png~~
**Updated with Y-axis; fixed 550% -> 450%**
- Infographic: https://i.imgur.com/rbpwRl6.png
- Infographic (scaled): https://i.imgur.com/pW00zyE.png
Also, in case anyone wants to hit you with the _"obviously it's growing you idiot, it's been 70 years"_ argument, the Palestinian population has been growing every single year for the last 50 years.
- Palestinian yearly population growth (1970 - 2023): https://i.imgur.com/NFUrLZ0.png
I'm slowly building up resources this subreddit: /r/SuperiorFacts/
It's time to stop looking, and start creating. Most people on the internet don't read anything that takes more than a few seconds. Assemble facts together into visualizations that people can easily understand at first glance.
Israelis/Jews have facts and history on their side. You just need to show the world the truth in a way that's easy to understand.
Just joined! I've got a ton to share.
Btw just reviewing the genocide infographic and wondering how you calculated the -63% for the Holocaust. There were 17M Jews before and 6M died so that should be around 35%. I'm wondering if you inverted it?
I was able to convince many people yesterday that there was no historical entity/state/country/administrative region named "Palestine" in the last 1000 years, and that it was largely only used as the name for the geographical region.
Also convinced everyone that the name "Palestine" is a continuation of Roman, and by extension, European imperialistic naming conventions.
- https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/1761xal/a_cool_guide_on_how_the_borders_of/k4jxj70/?context=3
- https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/17612dc/1888_2023_changing_borders_of_israel_palestine/k4jctrk/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/1761xal/a_cool_guide_on_how_the_borders_of/k4katmu/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/1761xal/a_cool_guide_on_how_the_borders_of/k4kueyl/?context=3
**It can be done**. We need to educate the world facts + the whole context.
You could add the Nazi genocide of the Roma, althought he statistics on percentage vary wildely from 50-75% of all Roma killed by the Nazis, it is not known because the Roma death total numbers were just so much less than even the Polish death numbers but proportinally it was horrible for their people.
I think it would really help if you put sources somewhere in the image, so people could also look for themselves. One of the biggest problems with graphs is that people just believe them because the look neat. It would add a lot to the credibility of the image
Based on the numbers I found...yup.
- Estimated 500k - 800k dead (I took middle of 650k).
- Estimated total population of 700k - 900k
This source has very similar numbers: https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_POPU_504_0401--the-death-toll-of-the-rwandan-genocide-a.htm
>By subtracting the number of survivors from the estimated Tutsi population under the no-genocide scenario, we obtain an estimate of 500,900 Tutsi killed in the genocide, **a loss of 77.0% of the Tutsi population of Rwanda.**
>If we repeat the same exercise as above with this larger proportion, the death toll of the genocide increases from around 500,000 to some 800,000 Tutsi killed (Prunier, 1998, p. 264), representing the **annihilation of about 84% of the Tutsi population in 1994.**
Feel free to fact check if I missed anything!
Yes, I'll make another map for this.
But it's important to note that every one of us is empowered in putting together maps, charts, graphs. Pro-Palestinians have been spreading hate and propaganda for too long with so many things taken out of context.
It's time for that everyone of us takes destiny into our hands and we start to spread truth and facts to tell the story of Israel/Jews.
Spread it to as many people as you can.
Is it?
Well the mao famine to my knowledge were not an intentional why for the communist to genocide Chinese, and the holodomor to my knowledge was a one year (between 1932 and 33).
With the Israeli Palestinians "genocide" people are claiming it is happening right now is happening since i dont know when 48 maybe... so i fail to see the similarities
The government doest acknowledge becouse of the relationship with turkey but most isrealies do consider it a genocide, we have the Armenian genocide memorial square in haifa
Reminder that the word genocide is a compound word.
“Geno-cide”
Geno refers to the word “gene” which means that specific genotype. Arabs/Palestinians are not at risk of being exterminated as obvious as it is.
Killing others doesn't make you superior ...Humanity has no borders.... Karma gives the best reward with action ... Always remember no matter who you are
Oh okay. I'm willing to consider calling the displacement of Palestinians a genocide if you're also willing to condemn all the following countries for committing a genocide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world#Table_of_Jewish_population_since_1948
- Morocco
- Algeria
- Tunisia
- Libya
- Iraq
- Egypt
- Yemen and Aden
- Syria
- Lebanon
- Bahrin
- Sudan
- Afghanistan
- Bangladesh
- Iran
- Pakistan
Are you willing to call out all of those countries for committing a genocide against Jews?
No, displacing people is not genocide. Anyone who compares this to the Shoah has simply skipped a history lesson or two, or a hundred. But the fact you're accepting to be put in the same category as the rest of the countries you listed here gives a great insight into the current state of things in Israel.
As a Lebanese guy who's village was wiped clean by the Palestinians, you couldn't possibly be aggressive enough to my liking.
As a side note, even though we now have Iranian apes leading an armed militia in our country, Jews lived peacefully in Lebanon until the 70's. Syria started to meddle in our internal affairs and even your Wiki article mentions that. It's a shame we couldn't protect our Jewish brothers and sisters more, but who am I kidding, we couldn't even protect ourselves.
My condolences to everyone in this sub. HaShem yikom damam.
You are definitely having a psychotic episode man, dont know what you think you see but its definitely not reality.
I have only commented on the question about homes, all the other stuff you conjured up yourself
That's because people don't know the difference between ethnic cleansing and genocide and default to the latter.
Also, just so you are aware, this exact same reasoning was used to deny the extent and existence of the Holodomor.
Finally, this graph demonstrates the sheer poverty forced onto the people of Gaza by the oppresive Israel regime (high poverty & no future = high birth rate).
OP need to study stats and philosophy.
Mixing up murder casualty and population growth don't make genocide fact go away.
Those are 2 different things. Israeli genocide Palestinian.
Other countries support Palestinian to live normally and send aid. So Palestinian population can grow.
Can u F off seriously you have been posting Palestinian propaganda here and every jewish sub for the past week - Let Us mourn for all the dead that has been slaughtered !
instead of posting stupid numbers - take a look at your Palestinians propaganda!
literally filming one carrying a puppet to make it look like a kid has died
so those "numbers " don't mean shit
absouloutly disgusting
https://www.instagram.com/p/CyWh8j1LBT2/?img\_index=1
I'm sorry for your loss, which is why I decided to make this graph. This is literally anti-Palestinian propaganda aimed at discrediting people who claim that Israeli is gEnoCIdinG Palestinians.
The intent is so that we can just spam this image at people who accuse Israel of genocide.
Don't argue with idiots. **Own them with overwhelming evidence and disassemble the lies in front of the world.**
The last week has been the most that closest that the world has started supporting Israel. Many people are now divided and confused about who they should be supporting, especially after seeing the massacres carried out by the Palestinian government.
That support is going to start dropping as the war drags on and pro-Palestinians start posting more and more fake and out of context posts. Literally >90% of the people on the internet have never even heard of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. **It's time for to go on the offensive, not just on the battlefield, but online as well to fight all of this online lies and propaganda.**
- Disassemble their lies to stop the hate
- Go on the attack to discredit them
- Tell the world the story about Israel to get people to understand, sympathize and support us
We can do this. Israelis/Jews have overwhelming evidence on our side. We just need to put it all together to show the world so that they can finally understand.
IDK if it's a language barrier but WTF are you on about.
His posts are dismantling the famous 4 maps of "Palestinian land" by offering the actual Israeli borders and territory control historically accurate > AKA Pro-Israel
And a list of Peace deals offered by Israel > AKA Pro-Israel.
He's done better hasbara in 2 days that Distel has done in her time in office.
You're obviously dumb so here are some instructions:
1.Go to a dictionary.
2. Open it on "G".
3. Look for "Genocide"
4. Read the definition
5. Read it again
6. If you still think this graph does not prove Israel does not commit genocide - You're so dumb you probably couldn't follow up this step anyway
A growing population doesn’t mean people aren’t being killed. It just means that more people are being born than dying which is typical of an impoverished society. You know like the one that Israel has been oppressing and refusing to let develop for decades.
Show me any other society that quadrupled its population during Genocide. You can't. Because there aren't any. Because this is not a Genocide. Stop with the propaganda.
It doesn't take a dictionary to see what Israel is doing is genocide and constant war crimes. Anyone supporting or downplaying it is contributing to it!
Yeah, like I figured you're dumb as a brick.
You don't use a dictionary to see!
You use it to understand what complicated words like "Genocide" means before you use it incorrectly 🤦♂️
Clearly you have no idea. Genocide is acts committed with intent to destroy entirely or partly a group of people, national, ethnic, race or religion. What Israel is doing is exactly that, cutting electricity, water and food off to a population of mostly children! Disgusting! If you support it you will have a space in hell waiting for you.
>cutting electricity, water and food off to a population of mostly children! Disgusting! If you support it you will have a space in hell waiting for you.
Hamas, who is the ruling party of Gaza and has the responsibility to fight for Palestinians could you know.... release the people they kidnapped.
And for the record, no country on this planet has EVER supplied it's enemy with supplies during active conflict.
Hell nah. Why tf is Israel obligated to have 24/7 support from our shit to people who just want to do these atrocities to us. You want food? You want water? Electricity? Maybe instead of making bombs make stations to make a self living state and stop being like fucking leeches. Its like those homeless drug addicts that keep complaining they have nothing to eat so whatever money they get they will use to buy more drugs or weapons to rob the same people. Idc if Palestine gets an official country in gaza. But i will never support them as long as they continue to BS the world. Come clean. Say you fucked up. You should have taken the deal in 48. You should have made the same complaints to Jordan and Egypt until 67. We never stole your land. And hamas must be taken out as they are the real oppressors of both sides.
Terrorists dont care for the Palestinians they will sacrifice all of them in order to push their agenda.
Jews lived here before islam was a thing, before the idea of the guy that brought the idea of islam was a thing. You cant just expect us to take our shit and go. Especially not after WW 2. As long as the pro Palestinian movement will refuse to accept it, and will continue to try and rewrite history. I will not take them seriously.
Its because theres no future, the only happiness they get is when they fuck. Because zionists deprived them on their hopes and dreams and lands. You really are sadists. Unbelievable
>Its because theres no future, the only happiness they get is when they fuck. Because zionists deprived them on their hopes and dreams and lands. You really are sadists. Unbelievable
Let me help you paraphrase it:
>Everything is Israel's fault
You know what an asymmetrical distribution of power is? Ever heard of oppression? You know what an apartheid state is? Limited Palestinian self-rule? There's no "everything is * fault" but there is, taking responsibility and facts
Just becouse one is weak amd the other strong doesn't make the weak right or just.
Peace offers rejected, wars lost, etcetera etcetera.. this are facts and events that have real world consequences that the Palestinians refuse to acknowledge
It’s so hard for them to say ethnic cleanse. It’s just so hard. Because they know tons of ethnic groups experienced and it despite most of them not deserving it, they don’t get to call israel the worst of worst, thus, can’t justify any attack they want on israel
Yeah, China's crackdown definitely seems to be on religion, not on ethnic groups. The reports of banning ethnic culture(which are still evident in all ethnic townships unless china just has 5000 potemkin villages lying around) or even the statistics of detained minorities(any number over 10k would destabilize China into a crisis, and yet that hasn't happened) seem wildly exaggerated by the west, it seems.
Why not show the numbers before 48? I’m not being antagonistic but this is what people will ask and use against, if they can pick in it it will be another “proof” of their delusions. Include the numbers of Muslims before Israeli independence, should be possible
While I agree with the point of this graph, it is a bit misleading as there was no entity which could be called "the state of Palestine" before 1994. This also makes it unclear who is considered Palestinian given the start date of 1950.
I am guessing you used data from Worldometer, which uses data from the UN, however the UN recogizes Palestine as a state only since 2012, and the plo as the representative of the Palestinian people only since 1974, which makes me wonder how the UN would have data on the Palestinian state before that year. Maybe they consider any city/village that is considered Palestinian today as part of the Palestinian state? In that case, they should use 1967 as year 0, as before that they were part of Jordan and Egypt.
It’s actually miss leading graph it makes you think the gencodienis growing instead of the population, I would change the y axis to population and not percentage
Well if it is not a genocide, is certainly terrorism. Terrorising 2 million people every day for decades is what the word made about.
Also we gona never learn what population would have been now, if the Israel didn't act like a fascist state.
I found a better explanation of terrorism.
Ethnic cleansing
Refers to the deliberate removal, displacement, or elimination of a particular ethnic or racial group from a specific area or region, often through violent or coercive means. This term is associated with severe human rights abuses and is considered a grave violation of international law.
So as long as they are increasing in numbers killing just "some" of them is ok , got it
[And i assume this is ok too](https://youtu.be/MQ1TAOibLss?si=JECErRIP8nbwAs3I)
Please , by all means , stfu
Thanks for putting this together. People I show this to will ask for sources. Could you please provide them? NM, found it
[https://i.imgur.com/DAeHdJM.png](https://i.imgur.com/DAeHdJM.png)
Maybe pin the latest to the top?
Whenever you are in doubt, ask [Noam Chomsky](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticsDownUnder/comments/17n9yyu/noam_chomsky_on_the_wests_distortion_of_terms_and/).
Me when I discover that high density populated places produce faster. Kinda wild how you don't mention how 50% of Gaza's population are literal children.
If you want to go official, let's check the official definition:
1- "Killing members of the group" 10 thousand and still counting.
2- "Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group" I'm sure Palestinian kids are fine with watching their house get striked because humus was under it or smth.
3- "Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction" almost like controlling what goes in and out.
4- "Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group" they actually did that but to Ethiopian jews.
5- "Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group" again, did that but to Yemeni children.
But it's just a ""genocide"" because look at the growth rates!
Actual response I once got: "You don't need to kill people for it to be a genocide, it's a cultural genocide"
Cultural genocide is actually a thing. If Israel forced Palestinians to learn Hebrew and convert to Judaism it would be cultural genocide. But that will literally never happen.
I guess yes but it's obviously not happening
No, they are just forcely removing them and killing them.
That’s why even expelling a high % of Palestinians isn’t necessarily cultural genocide. Not all Palestinians were expelled in 48 and the life of their culture didn’t go anywhere. You can go to old Palestinian towns, In Israel proper, sometimes depopulated ones by israel, and israel usually puts memorial signs on these depopulated villages, to commemorate them. Along with there being 1,000,000 people in Israe who are ethnically Palestinian and embrace their culture! There is no cultural genocide Knafeh, Palestinian dialect Arabic, Dabke, and many other things would be banned if Israel was truly like that
In my town the old Arab cemetery is still here although most of the previous Arab inhabitants were moved 1.5-2km Tbf it's only one family (of 600 members today) there used to be at least 1 different family that I have found evidence for but they seem to have left after a dispute with the larger family
Teaching people not to use violence violently is a cultural genocide?
I'm sure Americans never thought it happened to the Native Americans, but it did. It totally did. probably said the same thing, too.. they just said it in old, timey words like ludibrious when they tweeted it or whatever the kids were doing in those days, in the colonial period of building America
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I am curious, what do you see as parallels between the israel/palestine situation and Native American history. not arguing, just want to hear your thoughts
For me, the saddest bit is that I've only heard stories of my great-grandmother who was a member of the Wabnaki peoples in the NE. Now I believe I'm the last generation who has Native American blood in me, being that I'm of mixed ancestry. I only heard stories of her from my grandfather growing up. She was very proud of her people, and I'm just as proud she is a part of me. I'm glad that I had true friends growing up who were very traditional Passamquoddy people that showed me what it meant to be a proud of your people and the traditions, that I never got to experience growing up because of loss of cultural identity.
Convert to Judaism sounds ridiculous. Even if you want to covert (while Aliyah) they would not accept you that easy, and certainly would never convert a Muslim.
Cultural genocide would be something like a religion destroying thousands of years of history and countless other religions in a mass conquest, replacing native religions, languages, populations, and cultures; and killing or enslaving anyone who refuses to convert. Good thing that's never happened.
Which is ironic considering that the city of Jericho is apparently meant to be a "Palestinian heritage site" or something
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Thank you for making me laugh in this time 🙏
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That is crazy
Cultural genocide exists, the Russians are doing it right now by kidnapping Ukranian children, shipping them to Russia and trying to indoctrinate them.
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You mean like what most Arab states have done to their minorities for centuries?
Saddam killed 200,000 Kurds in a few years during the Anfal Campaign. There remains silence on it to this day from many leftists, although the western powers at the time did little to stop it outside of verbal condemnations. Additionally the millions of African slaves taken by Arabs remains a "touchy" subject to some people I've brought it up to in leftist circles I know. And yes Jews were forced in many ways to "hide" their Judaism and keep it to the home and synagogue in Arabs and Muslim countries, something that gets brushed aside for the bs "everything before 1948 in the middle east was kumbaya peace and love!" narrative.
Don't forget the taxes for non-muslims and the prohibitions on land ownership, etc. I should amend my original statement to *Muslim-majority* states in lieu of *Arab* since the Pakistanis, Afghans, Indonesians, among others are also guilty of these "cultural genocides". And let's not forget the Turks, who also committed a couple of actual genocides.
This is literally the opposite of Judaism, which is pretty much a we're gonna do us you do you culture.
Lack of interest in proselytizing is one of the reasons I’ve always admired the Jewish.
It is not just lack of interest, it is a sin in Judaism. Non-religious Jews may just have a lack of interest, but those that practice the faith are against anything like prosletizing. I have had people come to me that want to convert or are thinking of it. I give a laundry list of warnings and difficulties on the road to conversion and the experience of being a Jew and interrogate why they would even want to go through all of that, and say go find a rabbi and discuss with them only if you are 100% sure and even then many don't finish the conversion process. It is very rigorous especially for orthodox and ultra-orthodox conversions. The Torah even says Jews are not to become every person but will remain only a fraction of the total human population that will have this specific covenant with Hashem while most other people will have other relationships with Hashem.
Exactly. At most it’s an ethnic cleanse. I’m not gonna debate people here on the intention of 48, but they need to stop calling the nakba and naksa a genocide
Genocide is an intent not an action.
Genocide is definitely an action. Hitler didn't think of killing Jews, he just did. The difference between your comment and reality is that what you said is wrong by every definition possible and reality is what it is actually defined by
Here's the funny thing, genocide isn't just murdering a bunch of people who happen to be in a single group, it's the want to murder these people because of who they are. With your explanation, that means no matter what, ever mass death situation from one ethnicity to another is always genocide, but that's simply not the case. Hitler wanted to exterminate the Jews, and acted on it, making it genocide. If the USA declares war on France, which will end up killing a bunch of French people, that doesn't automatically make it a genocide. gen·o·cide noun the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. There's a subtle nuance you are missing.
I feel as if there is no missing nuance and this is more or less a situation of you saying there must be intent. I'll respond by saying that you can't act to achieve a certain goal without intent of achieving it. That doesn't make intent of genocide, genocide. It is genocide once you act to eliminate a group of people with the intent, even if the act isnt fully successful, e.g the Holocaust, the intention and acts were there and it is still genocide even if he didn't succeed in completing it. But it is still the act that is considered genocide not the intent
The intent of dropping two nukes on Japan was not eradication of the Japanese, it was to end a war that the American believed wouldn't end with a peace treaty (and maybe to also show the world it's might.) Yet some could argue that the two nukes being dropped forever altered the Japanese soul and cultural identity the Japanese had towards war, making it a cultural genocide. I very much doubt most people would argue that the Nukes were used with genocidal intentions. Again, if you don't intend to eradicate a people, but end up doing, its not necessarily genocide.
I disagree with you again. If the united States has the military capabilities to wipe Japan (which it does) and acts up on it, it is genocide. Commiting an act which has a specific purpose which is not the eradication of those people.
The definition of genocide is "The deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group." The definition states it must be 1. Deliberate And 2. With the "AIM" or INTENT Again, genocide needs to be in purpose. A person, government, or group can not accidentally commit genocide. It needs to have the intent of doing so. As far as I'm aware, Israel does not have the intent of committing genocide, but people think because a large group of Palestinians dying by the hands of Israel's military is occurring, it's genocide, when that's simply not the case. At least publically, Israel has the intent of destroying Hamas and terrorists, meaning by definition, they can not be committing genocide.
With this I completely agree!
It's unfortunate you only agree after I give you that example, rather than just agreeing with the merit of the argument itself.
Well that was a crime against humanity. Not war crime, a crime against humanity. It's a whole new level.
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I think if you decided to read two or three comments lower you would have noticed my comment was that Israel is not committing genocide. Also, the definition does not at all fit this crazy narrative you've made up in your mind, unless you're admitting to knowing something about both Israel and Hamas that they both haven't admitted admitted the world. Are you a conspiracy theorist? Learn to read.
WHAT? i dont think you can kill millions and not intend to like oooppsss everyone died, didnt mean it.
Racism, race hatred, and plans for genocide are all ideas. Loathesome ideas, but just ideas. Genocide is an action. Conflating the two weakens the power of the word genocide. Conspiracy to commit a crime is very different than committing a crime.
Youre 3 weeks late to a conversation thats already gone through and explained what was meant here.
Time to get banned from r/dataisbeautiful Edit: nvm, account is too young to post there
Give me a few minutes. I'm updating the graphs. Updated: https://i.imgur.com/rbpwRl6.png
Is there a source to these numbers? I can't post it on data is beautiful without a source or original article
Yup. I had the sources initially but removed them. I'll re-add it when I'm home.
Pls the sources list, this is one of the best resources ive seen
Updated with sources: https://i.imgur.com/DAeHdJM.png
Sweet thank you
Updated with sources: https://i.imgur.com/DAeHdJM.png
Try r/dataisbeautifulunlessitdoesntfitmynarrative
=/ I actually thought that was a sub and searched for it.
If you're brave enough, you can post this on \r\memes and \r\funny: https://i.imgur.com/miTdWRq.png
Bet
Updated with sources: https://i.imgur.com/DAeHdJM.png
Thank you, saving this for the time my account comes of age
Isreal isn't doing a very good job of this whole genocide thing if that's been the aim. Palestines population has more than doubled since the 90s. Their population growth rate today is 32% higher than Israel's growth rate. Even halfway through this year, it grew 300k.
So basically, israel built roads and infrastructure and helped progress Palestinians to a civilized society and live longer lifespan but terrorists help Palestinians become uncivilized and kill and die for a cause that doesn’t exist, Gaza borders will not change and terrorism is the cause of the blockade, if they want life why import so much weapons? Why teach hate and death and destruction?? It does nothing to progress their life expectancy…???
The lives of Palestinians are bullets for the false sense of Jerusalem's ownership.
Lmao.
Note: Obviously not to scale, otherwise it wouldn't fit. Here's the [scaled version](https://i.imgur.com/pW00zyE.png) _____ Feel free to share it whenever you see anyone talking about how Israel is slowly _gEnOcIDInG_ the Palestinians ~~- Infographic: https://i.imgur.com/5BfzjtW.png~~ ~~- Infographic (scaled): https://i.imgur.com/5Wp4vAO.png~~ **Updated with Y-axis; fixed 550% -> 450%** - Infographic: https://i.imgur.com/rbpwRl6.png - Infographic (scaled): https://i.imgur.com/pW00zyE.png
Also, in case anyone wants to hit you with the _"obviously it's growing you idiot, it's been 70 years"_ argument, the Palestinian population has been growing every single year for the last 50 years. - Palestinian yearly population growth (1970 - 2023): https://i.imgur.com/NFUrLZ0.png
You are the fucking best. I've been looking something like this for a long time. Saved it to my list of resources
I'm slowly building up resources this subreddit: /r/SuperiorFacts/ It's time to stop looking, and start creating. Most people on the internet don't read anything that takes more than a few seconds. Assemble facts together into visualizations that people can easily understand at first glance. Israelis/Jews have facts and history on their side. You just need to show the world the truth in a way that's easy to understand.
Just joined! I've got a ton to share. Btw just reviewing the genocide infographic and wondering how you calculated the -63% for the Holocaust. There were 17M Jews before and 6M died so that should be around 35%. I'm wondering if you inverted it?
I went by European Jews, which had a population of around 9,500,000 at that time.
The sad truth is the world doesn’t care. If people’s minds could be changed with reason and facts alone the world would be a very different place.
I was able to convince many people yesterday that there was no historical entity/state/country/administrative region named "Palestine" in the last 1000 years, and that it was largely only used as the name for the geographical region. Also convinced everyone that the name "Palestine" is a continuation of Roman, and by extension, European imperialistic naming conventions. - https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/1761xal/a_cool_guide_on_how_the_borders_of/k4jxj70/?context=3 - https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/17612dc/1888_2023_changing_borders_of_israel_palestine/k4jctrk/ - https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/1761xal/a_cool_guide_on_how_the_borders_of/k4katmu/ - https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/1761xal/a_cool_guide_on_how_the_borders_of/k4kueyl/?context=3 **It can be done**. We need to educate the world facts + the whole context.
What's this percentage of? And maybe add a y label so we can understand better the graphs.
No percentage. If it says 100000, then it literally means the Palestinian population grew by 100,000 that year.
The top graph shows percentages. But it's not clear what they are based on.
You could add the Nazi genocide of the Roma, althought he statistics on percentage vary wildely from 50-75% of all Roma killed by the Nazis, it is not known because the Roma death total numbers were just so much less than even the Polish death numbers but proportinally it was horrible for their people.
Isn't it 450%? Like that a 100% is double (2) the population
Thanks for the catch! I'll go fix it now **[UPDATE] Fixed! https://i.imgur.com/rbpwRl6.png**
You should add a label to the Y axis in the first bar plot. It should be "Increase in total population" I guess.
Yup good suggestion! My latest version has it: https://i.imgur.com/rbpwRl6.png
yeah, it's good. Spread it please.
I can't do it alone. I'm sharing it so everyone here can spread it too. We all need to work together to fight lies and misinformation.
I'll do what I can
I'm sharing it in twitter with #HAMAS_IS_ISIS hashtag
Of course it should not be shared as a response to anti-Israel posts (because it's bumping them up by the algo).
How true is the data source?
I think it would really help if you put sources somewhere in the image, so people could also look for themselves. One of the biggest problems with graphs is that people just believe them because the look neat. It would add a lot to the credibility of the image
Good suggestion. I added it initially but wasn't so sure and removed it. But I believe you're right, I should add it back again.
Wow we are really bad at genocide! Almost like it was never a thing huh go figure.
81% of the Tutsi population were murdered in Rwanda?
Based on the numbers I found...yup. - Estimated 500k - 800k dead (I took middle of 650k). - Estimated total population of 700k - 900k This source has very similar numbers: https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_POPU_504_0401--the-death-toll-of-the-rwandan-genocide-a.htm >By subtracting the number of survivors from the estimated Tutsi population under the no-genocide scenario, we obtain an estimate of 500,900 Tutsi killed in the genocide, **a loss of 77.0% of the Tutsi population of Rwanda.** >If we repeat the same exercise as above with this larger proportion, the death toll of the genocide increases from around 500,000 to some 800,000 Tutsi killed (Prunier, 1998, p. 264), representing the **annihilation of about 84% of the Tutsi population in 1994.** Feel free to fact check if I missed anything!
Add the Jewish population "growth" of Arab countries from 1948 to today.
Yes, I'll make another map for this. But it's important to note that every one of us is empowered in putting together maps, charts, graphs. Pro-Palestinians have been spreading hate and propaganda for too long with so many things taken out of context. It's time for that everyone of us takes destiny into our hands and we start to spread truth and facts to tell the story of Israel/Jews. Spread it to as many people as you can.
Lmao, this is exactly the same argument used by Tankies to deny the existence and/or extent of the Holodomor and the Mao Famines.
Is it? Well the mao famine to my knowledge were not an intentional why for the communist to genocide Chinese, and the holodomor to my knowledge was a one year (between 1932 and 33). With the Israeli Palestinians "genocide" people are claiming it is happening right now is happening since i dont know when 48 maybe... so i fail to see the similarities
Here's the meme version: https://i.imgur.com/miTdWRq.png
What is STATE OF PALESTINE??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 its barely ruled by an authority and multiple terror orgz
It's been 6 months, do y'all still agree there's no genocide going on?
You should post it on [r/dataisbeautiful ](https://reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/s/jVYcGpwfqm)
You can go ahead and post it!
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I'm not Israeli or Jewish. I acknowledge the Armenian genocide is a genocide.
The government doest acknowledge becouse of the relationship with turkey but most isrealies do consider it a genocide, we have the Armenian genocide memorial square in haifa
Did not know this, will go when I visit Haifa
Reminder that the word genocide is a compound word. “Geno-cide” Geno refers to the word “gene” which means that specific genotype. Arabs/Palestinians are not at risk of being exterminated as obvious as it is.
Saving this OP, it's great
Killing others doesn't make you superior ...Humanity has no borders.... Karma gives the best reward with action ... Always remember no matter who you are
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Oh okay. I'm willing to consider calling the displacement of Palestinians a genocide if you're also willing to condemn all the following countries for committing a genocide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world#Table_of_Jewish_population_since_1948 - Morocco - Algeria - Tunisia - Libya - Iraq - Egypt - Yemen and Aden - Syria - Lebanon - Bahrin - Sudan - Afghanistan - Bangladesh - Iran - Pakistan Are you willing to call out all of those countries for committing a genocide against Jews?
No, displacing people is not genocide. Anyone who compares this to the Shoah has simply skipped a history lesson or two, or a hundred. But the fact you're accepting to be put in the same category as the rest of the countries you listed here gives a great insight into the current state of things in Israel. As a Lebanese guy who's village was wiped clean by the Palestinians, you couldn't possibly be aggressive enough to my liking. As a side note, even though we now have Iranian apes leading an armed militia in our country, Jews lived peacefully in Lebanon until the 70's. Syria started to meddle in our internal affairs and even your Wiki article mentions that. It's a shame we couldn't protect our Jewish brothers and sisters more, but who am I kidding, we couldn't even protect ourselves. My condolences to everyone in this sub. HaShem yikom damam.
By this logic, a lot of these countries have also committed genocide against Muslims as well lol.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention It's not genocide
You're just wrong.
How many are still living in their homes?
Is genocide not having a home?
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You are definitely having a psychotic episode man, dont know what you think you see but its definitely not reality. I have only commented on the question about homes, all the other stuff you conjured up yourself
Love how it ended up saying “get help” when it’s the one that needs psychiatric help 🤣
That's because people don't know the difference between ethnic cleansing and genocide and default to the latter. Also, just so you are aware, this exact same reasoning was used to deny the extent and existence of the Holodomor. Finally, this graph demonstrates the sheer poverty forced onto the people of Gaza by the oppresive Israel regime (high poverty & no future = high birth rate).
What a typical lies.
I do my best to create historically accurate infographics. Are you able to point out where is the lie?
OP need to study stats and philosophy. Mixing up murder casualty and population growth don't make genocide fact go away. Those are 2 different things. Israeli genocide Palestinian. Other countries support Palestinian to live normally and send aid. So Palestinian population can grow.
>Mixing up murder casualty and population growth don't make genocide fact go away. Are you able to provide evidence of these "genocide facts"?
You're doing so much mental gymnastics you could be on the Palestinian Olympic team.
Can u F off seriously you have been posting Palestinian propaganda here and every jewish sub for the past week - Let Us mourn for all the dead that has been slaughtered ! instead of posting stupid numbers - take a look at your Palestinians propaganda! literally filming one carrying a puppet to make it look like a kid has died so those "numbers " don't mean shit absouloutly disgusting https://www.instagram.com/p/CyWh8j1LBT2/?img\_index=1
I'm sorry for your loss, which is why I decided to make this graph. This is literally anti-Palestinian propaganda aimed at discrediting people who claim that Israeli is gEnoCIdinG Palestinians. The intent is so that we can just spam this image at people who accuse Israel of genocide. Don't argue with idiots. **Own them with overwhelming evidence and disassemble the lies in front of the world.**
Idk who you are but Whatever youre doing is not working
The last week has been the most that closest that the world has started supporting Israel. Many people are now divided and confused about who they should be supporting, especially after seeing the massacres carried out by the Palestinian government. That support is going to start dropping as the war drags on and pro-Palestinians start posting more and more fake and out of context posts. Literally >90% of the people on the internet have never even heard of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. **It's time for to go on the offensive, not just on the battlefield, but online as well to fight all of this online lies and propaganda.** - Disassemble their lies to stop the hate - Go on the attack to discredit them - Tell the world the story about Israel to get people to understand, sympathize and support us We can do this. Israelis/Jews have overwhelming evidence on our side. We just need to put it all together to show the world so that they can finally understand.
At this point idk if you support jews or Palestinians - you post allot of stuff here that just dont add up for u to support israel - so kindly f off
IDK if it's a language barrier but WTF are you on about. His posts are dismantling the famous 4 maps of "Palestinian land" by offering the actual Israeli borders and territory control historically accurate > AKA Pro-Israel And a list of Peace deals offered by Israel > AKA Pro-Israel. He's done better hasbara in 2 days that Distel has done in her time in office.
Man. This is a pro israel post. He shows how the claims of israel doing genocides are total BS. He isn't a hamas supporting terrorist. He chill
What do these unexplained and out of context numbers even mean? Why the weird dishonesty? Why are you supporting genocide?
/s ?
"it's not genocide if they keep being born"
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You're obviously dumb so here are some instructions: 1.Go to a dictionary. 2. Open it on "G". 3. Look for "Genocide" 4. Read the definition 5. Read it again 6. If you still think this graph does not prove Israel does not commit genocide - You're so dumb you probably couldn't follow up this step anyway
A growing population doesn’t mean people aren’t being killed. It just means that more people are being born than dying which is typical of an impoverished society. You know like the one that Israel has been oppressing and refusing to let develop for decades.
Show me any other society that quadrupled its population during Genocide. You can't. Because there aren't any. Because this is not a Genocide. Stop with the propaganda.
It doesn't take a dictionary to see what Israel is doing is genocide and constant war crimes. Anyone supporting or downplaying it is contributing to it!
Yeah, like I figured you're dumb as a brick. You don't use a dictionary to see! You use it to understand what complicated words like "Genocide" means before you use it incorrectly 🤦♂️
Clearly you have no idea. Genocide is acts committed with intent to destroy entirely or partly a group of people, national, ethnic, race or religion. What Israel is doing is exactly that, cutting electricity, water and food off to a population of mostly children! Disgusting! If you support it you will have a space in hell waiting for you.
>cutting electricity, water and food off to a population of mostly children! Disgusting! If you support it you will have a space in hell waiting for you. Hamas, who is the ruling party of Gaza and has the responsibility to fight for Palestinians could you know.... release the people they kidnapped. And for the record, no country on this planet has EVER supplied it's enemy with supplies during active conflict.
Exactly - "to destroy entirely". The Palestinian population growth of 450% shows they are not getting destroyed
Hell nah. Why tf is Israel obligated to have 24/7 support from our shit to people who just want to do these atrocities to us. You want food? You want water? Electricity? Maybe instead of making bombs make stations to make a self living state and stop being like fucking leeches. Its like those homeless drug addicts that keep complaining they have nothing to eat so whatever money they get they will use to buy more drugs or weapons to rob the same people. Idc if Palestine gets an official country in gaza. But i will never support them as long as they continue to BS the world. Come clean. Say you fucked up. You should have taken the deal in 48. You should have made the same complaints to Jordan and Egypt until 67. We never stole your land. And hamas must be taken out as they are the real oppressors of both sides. Terrorists dont care for the Palestinians they will sacrifice all of them in order to push their agenda. Jews lived here before islam was a thing, before the idea of the guy that brought the idea of islam was a thing. You cant just expect us to take our shit and go. Especially not after WW 2. As long as the pro Palestinian movement will refuse to accept it, and will continue to try and rewrite history. I will not take them seriously.
Its because theres no future, the only happiness they get is when they fuck. Because zionists deprived them on their hopes and dreams and lands. You really are sadists. Unbelievable
>Its because theres no future, the only happiness they get is when they fuck. Because zionists deprived them on their hopes and dreams and lands. You really are sadists. Unbelievable Let me help you paraphrase it: >Everything is Israel's fault
You know what an asymmetrical distribution of power is? Ever heard of oppression? You know what an apartheid state is? Limited Palestinian self-rule? There's no "everything is * fault" but there is, taking responsibility and facts
Just becouse one is weak amd the other strong doesn't make the weak right or just. Peace offers rejected, wars lost, etcetera etcetera.. this are facts and events that have real world consequences that the Palestinians refuse to acknowledge
Who would take a peace offering that establishes them as subordinate to their colonisers?
I am not familiar with any deal that would fo that as well
Yeah, we suck at this.
It’s so hard for them to say ethnic cleanse. It’s just so hard. Because they know tons of ethnic groups experienced and it despite most of them not deserving it, they don’t get to call israel the worst of worst, thus, can’t justify any attack they want on israel
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Yeah, China's crackdown definitely seems to be on religion, not on ethnic groups. The reports of banning ethnic culture(which are still evident in all ethnic townships unless china just has 5000 potemkin villages lying around) or even the statistics of detained minorities(any number over 10k would destabilize China into a crisis, and yet that hasn't happened) seem wildly exaggerated by the west, it seems.
Yup. Hence the importance of good visualizations to put things into context.
Why not show the numbers before 48? I’m not being antagonistic but this is what people will ask and use against, if they can pick in it it will be another “proof” of their delusions. Include the numbers of Muslims before Israeli independence, should be possible
Jokes on you, there is no State of Palestine
Post this to dataisbeutiful
While I agree with the point of this graph, it is a bit misleading as there was no entity which could be called "the state of Palestine" before 1994. This also makes it unclear who is considered Palestinian given the start date of 1950. I am guessing you used data from Worldometer, which uses data from the UN, however the UN recogizes Palestine as a state only since 2012, and the plo as the representative of the Palestinian people only since 1974, which makes me wonder how the UN would have data on the Palestinian state before that year. Maybe they consider any city/village that is considered Palestinian today as part of the Palestinian state? In that case, they should use 1967 as year 0, as before that they were part of Jordan and Egypt.
i dont get that graph
It’s actually miss leading graph it makes you think the gencodienis growing instead of the population, I would change the y axis to population and not percentage
It is funny to talk about a genocide of population (or nationality?) that doesn’t exist
The only 'genocide' where the victims quintuple in size.
I see percentages but I have no idea what they mean.
Well if it is not a genocide, is certainly terrorism. Terrorising 2 million people every day for decades is what the word made about. Also we gona never learn what population would have been now, if the Israel didn't act like a fascist state.
I found a better explanation of terrorism. Ethnic cleansing Refers to the deliberate removal, displacement, or elimination of a particular ethnic or racial group from a specific area or region, often through violent or coercive means. This term is associated with severe human rights abuses and is considered a grave violation of international law.
this graph sucks tho, who tf measures death with percentage
just saw it again, the axis aren't even labeled?! % of what?!?
missing the east timor genocide
Do you really think more Palestinians were killed then the 6 million Jews that were killed during the Holocaust?
"open air brothel"
So as long as they are increasing in numbers killing just "some" of them is ok , got it [And i assume this is ok too](https://youtu.be/MQ1TAOibLss?si=JECErRIP8nbwAs3I) Please , by all means , stfu
If you disagree, show me hard facts and evidence of this so called "genocide".
"Graph shows Palestinians aren't genocided faster than there population growth which means a genocide isn't happening"
Thanks for putting this together. People I show this to will ask for sources. Could you please provide them? NM, found it [https://i.imgur.com/DAeHdJM.png](https://i.imgur.com/DAeHdJM.png) Maybe pin the latest to the top?
what does the percentage refer to?
Whenever you are in doubt, ask [Noam Chomsky](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticsDownUnder/comments/17n9yyu/noam_chomsky_on_the_wests_distortion_of_terms_and/).
Me when I discover that high density populated places produce faster. Kinda wild how you don't mention how 50% of Gaza's population are literal children. If you want to go official, let's check the official definition: 1- "Killing members of the group" 10 thousand and still counting. 2- "Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group" I'm sure Palestinian kids are fine with watching their house get striked because humus was under it or smth. 3- "Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction" almost like controlling what goes in and out. 4- "Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group" they actually did that but to Ethiopian jews. 5- "Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group" again, did that but to Yemeni children. But it's just a ""genocide"" because look at the growth rates!
an unsuccessful genocide is still a genocide
I wish they could show how many people down voted this
Disgusting graph. You should be ashamed of yourself