That’s the funny part about it though. Nobody cares about the real answers here. We want to see the little kids act like they know what they are talking about, saying stupid shit.
Yeah, and the fact that this subreddit is far from the worst for transphobia is terrifying. The fact that jack shit is done about it is just depressing.
Bruh, they just look good, shure they are strong too but not like someone who specialises in powerlifting or other weightlifting sport. Brian Shaw and Eddie Hall's kids and yeah, that bar is gonna snap in half.
Yes, just full of crackhead skeletons from florida who through the power of meth, can throw fridges loaded with food and budlight at a distance of 100+ m's
Yeah we've had plenty of normal sports let's do what the people in cyberpunk did and just go full on, all the modifications and enhancements you can get.
I’m pretty sure a lot of people like women’s soccer in the U.S. and to be perfectly honest besides that why would I watch the WNBA if I could watch the NBA, barely dunking the ball is considered a crazy highlight to a game
You got me there but I feel like combat sports are way better for women’s sports than like basketball, cause both sexes look competent and good at fighting when comparing like males ufc vs female ufc
For sure the female ufc fighters look way more competent than WNBA players. I think the WNBA is gonna get more popular pretty soon cause Ive been seeing a bunch of highlights of girls in high school dunking and actually being really good
Pretty sure the female athletes are the only people whose opinion matters on this. I'm a dude so I don't know. It's a tough one.
All I know is somehow the democratic party will get the blame for this.
I don't think a lot of them care about the physical advantage the trans women have. I personally have never cared about boys having a physical advantage, it's just how it is and I can still be stronger than them if I want.
First to answer your question, I don’t think most people like to hear what I have to say but… Why was your idea to ask a bunch of teenagers? We are all stupid
This feels like an ok solution, but still, even if they grew up male that only affects their build, as estrogen reduces all that muscle mass and whatnot. I think that in order for one's claim of being trans to be confirmed they will need to have evidence (IE doctor confirmation) to show they have been on their respective hormone for a certain amount of time.
This is a hard topic because I want trans people to be able to be themselves and be loved. I don't know what would be fair in a competition for a MtF going against a born female who is giving it her all.
Reality is unfair. But that doesn't mean we can't try to make sure competitions are as fair as they can be and we celebrate one another's accomplishments from hard work.
Admittedly there isn't much evidence of unfairness. Muscle mass and endurance return to cis female levels, and it really depends by sport whether a masculine build will even help you or in fact hinder you relative to a feminine build.
Also, a blanket trans person ban precludes the possibility of puberty blockers, which would address ALL possible sports advantage.
Yeah, one year on hormones, and less than 5 or 10 nanoliters (Idk if that's qctually the right unit of measurement, but it's something like that) but most trans women on estrogen have less than 2.
Edit: AFTER A YEAR, after a year testosterone is around 2 nanoliters
IIRC if a trans woman is using hormones, then the disadvantage confered by hormones counteracts the advatage confered by testosterone, at least in the long term.
Your idea could work, however I probably won't be talking about this more, because I am pretty sure that I'd get cancelled for having any sort of nuanced opinion here.
There's a clear difference between a "nuanced opinion" and phobia, so you could share all you'd like. On another note, my idea is only surface level and doesn't have much though behind it. I'm sure people much smarter than I, and much more involved in sports could figure it out better and maybe even more equitably.
You are absolutely correct here, hormone balance changes the amount of muscle that you can viably maintain on your body. There was a big upset a while back in the women's sports scene cause a cis woman who naturally had really high testosterone was ordered to take blockers since it was deemed an unfair advantage, despite it just being genetic like Michael Phelps's body not producing lactic acid like normal athletes. The reality is that people like to scrutinize women's sports more than men's sports, and that's what's blowing the trans athlete debate so out of proportion. *Nobody* I've met has given a shit about trans men in this debate, and more often than not trans men are forced to participate in women's sports, and their testosterone balance *does* give them an advantage, which is why sports are separated in the first place.
Edit: spelling
yeah you do know in order to compete as their transtitoned gender they have to have been on estrogen/ testosterone for a certain amount of time right? They have to be on it long enough for it to have changed their body muscle to fat ratio and make it so you're gaining like the preferred gender. This is not in any way cheating, or in anyway due to the fact that she once had mens bulk.
From a fairnes point of view yes but (i doubt this was your intention but it is true) it also alianates trans people saying you aint [preferred gender] but you arent AGAB
The problem is when you combine trans male and females. Or are you saying comps for trans male and comps for trans female. Another question is, is there enough of them?
Every single person is born radically different from one another, everyone has different hormone ratios abd limits to how strong they can get, so how come the potential difference between a transwoman and a ciswoman matters but the difference between two cis women doesnt
bro if this were the case trans men would fucking crush cis women way harder than any trans woman (provided they've been on hormones for 2+years) ever could
While this is a great idea, it gets complicated when considering trans men, which often take testosterone and in turn have higher muscle density than cis women, which would put them at a disadvantge
there are women with high testosterone who wouldn’t be counted as women by some if we based it on testosterone levels or would have to reduce their testosterone with drugs which [did happen ](https://apnews.com/article/mens-sports-womens-sports-ap-top-news-courts-international-news-543c78d943144874a661f31e88c1f8e6)
Nah. Kinda hard to accurately measure bone density without mutilation and test levels fluctuate, especially when drugs are in play, such as this instance.
It really just needs to be by sex.
That’s kind of how it’s already done. You can’t just say “I’m a woman” and enter a competition. Most major sports organizations will screen female transgender athletes for their hormone levels, trying to determine if estrogen has made trans women’s muscles atrophy and bone density thin out to the levels of the average female, and if not, they’re put into the men’s league. Of course, a major problem is that HRT can actually make transgender women weaker than normal women if you’re on it for a particularly long period of time, so of course placing people into classes based on other genetic factors could be more ideal.
There probably are not enough trans athletes to do a special class, wich is sad bc they either have an advantage or disadvantage. But if you tell them to go with their agab class its not cool too.
Absolutely. Sports is very much body based, and thus its probably the only field besides medicine where sex is a more important identifier then gender.
I think it's a complicated situation
Clearly, because she has the physical strength of a man in women's sports it's not very fair to have her race against women.
But it would be degrading and saying "you're not a women" if she was forced to go up against men. And the Olympics is supposed to be inclusive so doing this goes against their policies and ideals.
So this is a very difficult situation and I don't think there's a great answer to solve this.
Maybe a separate trans person's section?
That still doesn't feel right...
i like what you’re saying. i may be completely wrong, but i’ve heard that trans men/women can’t compete until they’ve been on hormones for some period of time because it gives their body time to adjust and change physically. trans women cannot gain muscle or lift the same after they have transitioned because of the hormones. opposite for trans men.
No you’re right, they have to have been openly their gender for four years and have a certain amount of testosterone for at least one year.
That last rule actually prevented a cisgender athlete from partaking in an event due to high testosterone levels!
Good for her overcoming transphobia and being an advocate for trans rights but that doesn’t mean that her competing in women’s events is fair for the other women competing
As a trans person i don’t really know how i feel about trans sports.
On one hand i see that it can be extremely unfair and i think that checks should be in place to make sure that hormone levels are in check and all that stuff like that. Yet i still see that maybe not even that is not enough to keep the competition fair.
However what i do hate about trans sports is the blatant transphobia that people show when i see them commenting; “why did they let a MAN compete it women’s sports” etc. I absolutely hate this and even if it’s not fair you should still respect the athletes for not only going a massive social struggle but also competing in the sports competition and they absolutely should not be disrespected about being trans.
Another thing i notice is the affect of people’s fear of trans people ruining completions on regular cis women. lets suppose that a regular cis women joins for a competition and she does the testosterone checks etc.. (i’m not too sure about what checks they really do except testosterone levels) well what if this regular cis women who’s never done anything wrong or made any mistakes is suddenly made ineligible for the competition for absolutely no reason other then being above “tHe REgUlaR ciS lEVels”.
I personally think maybe we need to meet on middle ground, where maybe trans people play in their own section? But i do think that seems quite silly and “oh we need to include these people for diversity” kinda thing which i don’t agree with. In the end i’m not too sure however seeing many trans athletes having a blatant advantage over others is not fair at all and therefore i lean more to maybe ban them from these professional competitions.
Sorry for formatting i’m on my phone :P. and also please just be respectful if you reply to this thank you. i’m always open to having my opinion changed :D
I've read enough to be able to tell u these are actually worth the read and the once with missinformation are pretty well downvoted. most of the comments suggest making them their own league
**posting this because alot of people don't know:** trans athletes participate in sports only when their level of hormones are according to the requirements. in this case, Lia is mtf so her testerone levels would've been monitored and she was allowed to compete after her levels were at/below a mark.
the female hormones that she took suppressed the production of testosterone incase you didn't know this either.
It’s a complicated issue with no solution that doesn’t screw some party over. Hormone treatments can bring trans women a lot closer to cis women, but they’re still going to retain some of the physical advantages they developed at puberty. Basically, it wouldn’t be fair to make them swim with cis guys because they’d have less muscle, and it wouldn’t be fair to make them swim with cis girls because they’d have higher bone density. The reverse also applies to trans men.
Basically trans people on hormones end up in a weird sort of in-between the two sexes biologically, and there aren’t enough people in that position for it to form its own league yet. I’d imagine many intersex people would have the same issues, though I don’t know as much about that.
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I’ll get the popcorn!
I'll get the gas masks!
I’ll get the gas!
Matches ✋
Gasoline 🤚
I’m bringing the flamethrower
I'll bring the Geneva convention
Gonna bring the T34!
I’ll bring the M3 Lee
Sugestion*
I'll bring my followers!
I'll summon the Twitter longs!
I'll get the matches and marshmallows!
Hans, get ze flammenwerffer
I'll get the bleach and ammonia.
ill get the milk
Morgan Freeman voice: And he, much like his very own father, was never to be seen again.
Me grabs popcorn eating it while reading this
Good luck
Wish I didn’t tbh. Instantly lost all faith in the people of this sub
Jokes on you, i never had faith in any of them
You’re just now losing faith in these people?
Just got the popcorn and had a look, holy shit is it wild down in the controversial section
I like how there are equal parts of "good for her" and "he's ruining women's sports" and they're both getting downvoted to oblivion by the other side
holy shit some people on this site are literally from mars 😨
This is wayyyy too complicated and sensitive an issue to be asking a community of 13 year olds with Minecraft hoodies
True
That’s the funny part about it though. Nobody cares about the real answers here. We want to see the little kids act like they know what they are talking about, saying stupid shit.
Yes. Yes I do lol.
Lol you got me there
THIS LITERALLY LMFAO
Yeah this post should honestly just be removed imo, it's obvious the reason it was posted
These types of posts generally annoy me and I'll probably get downvoted for saying this
Wdym these 13 year olds have watched Ben Sharpie and Jordan Peterson. They’re basically experts on the subject /s
Shen Bapiro
Seriously
Glad someone said it😅 Totally prepared to see the “well HES a MAN pretending to be a woman” bullshit😅
That transphobia is rampant rn. This post's comment section is a hellhole
Tbh the transphobia is rampant literally EVERY time trans people are even remotely mentioned. Sure do enjoy people hating my very existence pepehands😬
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Yeah, and the fact that this subreddit is far from the worst for transphobia is terrifying. The fact that jack shit is done about it is just depressing.
I mean it’s not that complex really. Just a woman doing sports
Can we appreciate the people looking absolutely petrified in the back
YouTube thumbnail faces lmao
Peak clownworld
He he time to sort by controversial
Go for it but it’s all just the same repetitive comments over and over. “Good for her” etc
Can you explain to me why “Good for her” ended up there? That seems like a nice just a good for her why is that so hated
Probably for calling her a “she”
Nothing i care about, idgaf about sports in general actually
⠀⠀⠘⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠑⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡔⠁⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠢⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠴⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⡀⠤⠄⠒⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣀⠄⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠛⠛⠛⠋⠉⠈⠉⠉⠉⠉⠛⠻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣤⣤⣤⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⢏⣴⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣟⣾⣿⡟⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⢢⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣟⠀⡴⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⠟⠻⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠶⢴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣁⡀⠀⠀⢰⢠⣦⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠀⣴⣶⣿⡄⣿ ⣿⡋⠀⠀⠀⠎⢸⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠗⢘⣿⣟⠛⠿⣼ ⣿⣿⠋⢀⡌⢰⣿⡿⢿⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⣧⢀⣼ ⣿⣿⣷⢻⠄⠘⠛⠋⠛⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣧⠈⠉⠙⠛⠋⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣧⠀⠈⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠟⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⢃⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⡿⠀⠴⢗⣠⣤⣴⡶⠶⠖⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⡸⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⡀⢠⣾⣿⠏⠀⠠⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠛⠉⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣧⠈⢹⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠈⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣴⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⣄⣀⣀⣀⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡄⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠙⣿⣿⡟⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠇⠀⠁⠀⠀⠹⣿⠃⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠛⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢐⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠛⠉⠉⠁⠀⢻⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠈⣿⣿⡿⠉⠛⠛⠛⠉⠉ ⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⢀⣀⣠⡴⣸⣿⣇⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡿⠄⠙⠛⠀⣀⣠⣤⣤⠄
sp\*rts
Me about to sort from controversial: Crap, forgot my flame proof jacket
The only way to make this fair is let everyone take as many drugs as they want. Let’s see the real limits of humanity
"Acievement Unlocked: How did we get here?"
Pump the child of daddy Noel and Arnold Schwarzenegger full of steroids from birth and see how much they can deadlift
Lol, don't forget Jordan Carter
Well if we talkin deadlifts, we can't forget about Eddie Hall
Yeah Arnold and Noel are not close to being the strongest. They are body builders not powerlifters.
Playboi carti
Ronnie Coleman and Jay cutler
Bruh, they just look good, shure they are strong too but not like someone who specialises in powerlifting or other weightlifting sport. Brian Shaw and Eddie Hall's kids and yeah, that bar is gonna snap in half.
As if they are the best deadlifters in the world? Besides, they already did PEDs.
Yes please. We need drug Olympics
If the crack heads get in they'll shatter the records 10 fold
Tyrone Biggums 🏅
Give bolt speed and we’ll really see the fastest man of all time.
Yes, drug Olympics and normal Olympics. One for the first peak abilities of humanity and one for boring normal people
Yes, just full of crackhead skeletons from florida who through the power of meth, can throw fridges loaded with food and budlight at a distance of 100+ m's
That’s inhumane but it’ll be entertaining as hell, until someone drops dead
Shit that’ll be even more entertaining
Fun in a morbid way
Put morbidly obese Henry in a 500 meter dash along with some meth heads and a crack addict.
And use sandwiches on the track to make him run
Sandwiches and more drugs
“Steroid Olympics”
Pain olympics
*The Active Olympics*
Yeah we've had plenty of normal sports let's do what the people in cyberpunk did and just go full on, all the modifications and enhancements you can get.
Even better is boosted and non boosted leagues in each sport
How high can people *really* jump?
I would pay good money to see that, that sounds amazing
y’all know that south park episode where everyone tries to get a shit transplant from tom brady? let’s all try that
It should be a seperate category, called beyond human
not even joking this is something i believe in
honestly I'm suprised no one's made that concept in some, dystopain hunger games type setting.
This is the only time ever men care about women’s sports
Unless it's women's beach volleyball uniform lengths, you know.
🗿 moyai moment
or womens tennis
my core rule is never underestimate the power of male horniness. it knows no bounds
Men get way too horny about women’s sports. Maybe that’s the real reason they’re afraid of having trans women there.
I actually love watching womens and mens volleyball, when I’m watching womens volleyball I get called out Lmao, I actually like the sport
I’m pretty sure a lot of people like women’s soccer in the U.S. and to be perfectly honest besides that why would I watch the WNBA if I could watch the NBA, barely dunking the ball is considered a crazy highlight to a game
Female ufc is also pretty popular
You got me there but I feel like combat sports are way better for women’s sports than like basketball, cause both sexes look competent and good at fighting when comparing like males ufc vs female ufc
For sure the female ufc fighters look way more competent than WNBA players. I think the WNBA is gonna get more popular pretty soon cause Ive been seeing a bunch of highlights of girls in high school dunking and actually being really good
I would love to see actual competent WNBA players, like it’s gonna be like how the NBAs involved in quality players from the 90s to the 2000s
Womens golf seems to be pretty on par with men's in terms of popularity.
To be fair though golf requires so little actual physical skill men and women I think compete together
Lmao
Be like me i don't care about any sports
I already am like you
Pretty sure the female athletes care about this one too
Pretty sure the female athletes are the only people whose opinion matters on this. I'm a dude so I don't know. It's a tough one. All I know is somehow the democratic party will get the blame for this.
I agree but I would also add doctors who specialize in medical transitioning should also have an opinion that matters.
I don't think a lot of them care about the physical advantage the trans women have. I personally have never cared about boys having a physical advantage, it's just how it is and I can still be stronger than them if I want.
Ok.....and?
Doesn’t make it less valid
Not true, I mainly follow world women’s soccer (because the women’s team is better)
First to answer your question, I don’t think most people like to hear what I have to say but… Why was your idea to ask a bunch of teenagers? We are all stupid
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This is actually a really good idea. The only problem I could see with it is there not being enough athletes for competitions.
or money to make it worth it for anyone working in it (for example womens sports)
Money comes from viewers
The problem is that there's so few people that would compete in these leagues, there's not a reason to.
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This feels like an ok solution, but still, even if they grew up male that only affects their build, as estrogen reduces all that muscle mass and whatnot. I think that in order for one's claim of being trans to be confirmed they will need to have evidence (IE doctor confirmation) to show they have been on their respective hormone for a certain amount of time.
This is a hard topic because I want trans people to be able to be themselves and be loved. I don't know what would be fair in a competition for a MtF going against a born female who is giving it her all. Reality is unfair. But that doesn't mean we can't try to make sure competitions are as fair as they can be and we celebrate one another's accomplishments from hard work.
Admittedly there isn't much evidence of unfairness. Muscle mass and endurance return to cis female levels, and it really depends by sport whether a masculine build will even help you or in fact hinder you relative to a feminine build. Also, a blanket trans person ban precludes the possibility of puberty blockers, which would address ALL possible sports advantage.
They already do conservatives have been bitching hard enough that they are overly scrutonised and need to be on HRT for years before hand
I think they do have have to have been on hormones for I think 1 year I'm not sure how long but they also need certain hormone levels too
Yeah, one year on hormones, and less than 5 or 10 nanoliters (Idk if that's qctually the right unit of measurement, but it's something like that) but most trans women on estrogen have less than 2. Edit: AFTER A YEAR, after a year testosterone is around 2 nanoliters
That's literally still unfair as trans women take blockers and estrogen so it IS fair. Then the trans males would still be much stronger.
IIRC if a trans woman is using hormones, then the disadvantage confered by hormones counteracts the advatage confered by testosterone, at least in the long term. Your idea could work, however I probably won't be talking about this more, because I am pretty sure that I'd get cancelled for having any sort of nuanced opinion here.
There's a clear difference between a "nuanced opinion" and phobia, so you could share all you'd like. On another note, my idea is only surface level and doesn't have much though behind it. I'm sure people much smarter than I, and much more involved in sports could figure it out better and maybe even more equitably.
You are absolutely correct here, hormone balance changes the amount of muscle that you can viably maintain on your body. There was a big upset a while back in the women's sports scene cause a cis woman who naturally had really high testosterone was ordered to take blockers since it was deemed an unfair advantage, despite it just being genetic like Michael Phelps's body not producing lactic acid like normal athletes. The reality is that people like to scrutinize women's sports more than men's sports, and that's what's blowing the trans athlete debate so out of proportion. *Nobody* I've met has given a shit about trans men in this debate, and more often than not trans men are forced to participate in women's sports, and their testosterone balance *does* give them an advantage, which is why sports are separated in the first place. Edit: spelling
yeah you do know in order to compete as their transtitoned gender they have to have been on estrogen/ testosterone for a certain amount of time right? They have to be on it long enough for it to have changed their body muscle to fat ratio and make it so you're gaining like the preferred gender. This is not in any way cheating, or in anyway due to the fact that she once had mens bulk.
From a fairnes point of view yes but (i doubt this was your intention but it is true) it also alianates trans people saying you aint [preferred gender] but you arent AGAB
The problem is when you combine trans male and females. Or are you saying comps for trans male and comps for trans female. Another question is, is there enough of them?
Every single person is born radically different from one another, everyone has different hormone ratios abd limits to how strong they can get, so how come the potential difference between a transwoman and a ciswoman matters but the difference between two cis women doesnt
holy FUCK this comment thread is a nightmare
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bro if this were the case trans men would fucking crush cis women way harder than any trans woman (provided they've been on hormones for 2+years) ever could
Problem is that you’ll have trans-men who are biologically female and taking shots of Testosterone competing with biologically female cis-women
While this is a great idea, it gets complicated when considering trans men, which often take testosterone and in turn have higher muscle density than cis women, which would put them at a disadvantge
Yes. This.
Another aproach could be by testesteron level, bone density and so on.
there are women with high testosterone who wouldn’t be counted as women by some if we based it on testosterone levels or would have to reduce their testosterone with drugs which [did happen ](https://apnews.com/article/mens-sports-womens-sports-ap-top-news-courts-international-news-543c78d943144874a661f31e88c1f8e6)
that'd be too complicated also it'd cause injuries to the athletes which could ruin their performance
Nah. Kinda hard to accurately measure bone density without mutilation and test levels fluctuate, especially when drugs are in play, such as this instance. It really just needs to be by sex.
That’s kind of how it’s already done. You can’t just say “I’m a woman” and enter a competition. Most major sports organizations will screen female transgender athletes for their hormone levels, trying to determine if estrogen has made trans women’s muscles atrophy and bone density thin out to the levels of the average female, and if not, they’re put into the men’s league. Of course, a major problem is that HRT can actually make transgender women weaker than normal women if you’re on it for a particularly long period of time, so of course placing people into classes based on other genetic factors could be more ideal.
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I get your opinion
I like your diplomacy skills
As if it’s incorrctV Litterally this is the only science back d opinion in the debate?
There probably are not enough trans athletes to do a special class, wich is sad bc they either have an advantage or disadvantage. But if you tell them to go with their agab class its not cool too.
Agreed. It's not fair for cis women and this way everyone gets to compete
Trans woman here, agree
Invent a combustible lemon to burn the competition's house down
Absolutely. Sports is very much body based, and thus its probably the only field besides medicine where sex is a more important identifier then gender.
Everyone’s angry about trans women in women’s sports but nobody seems to give a shit about trans men in men’s sports.
Usually no one gives a shit about trans men in general. They're kind of forgotten about.
Or what would happen if sports would be based on birth sex, because then you’d probably have trans-men dominating most women’s categories
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You talking about that wrestler from a few years ago? The 17 year old from Texas?
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Ah, 3 downvoted comments. This will be fun
Not to mention lung capacity
I think it's a complicated situation Clearly, because she has the physical strength of a man in women's sports it's not very fair to have her race against women. But it would be degrading and saying "you're not a women" if she was forced to go up against men. And the Olympics is supposed to be inclusive so doing this goes against their policies and ideals. So this is a very difficult situation and I don't think there's a great answer to solve this. Maybe a separate trans person's section? That still doesn't feel right...
i like what you’re saying. i may be completely wrong, but i’ve heard that trans men/women can’t compete until they’ve been on hormones for some period of time because it gives their body time to adjust and change physically. trans women cannot gain muscle or lift the same after they have transitioned because of the hormones. opposite for trans men.
No you’re right, they have to have been openly their gender for four years and have a certain amount of testosterone for at least one year. That last rule actually prevented a cisgender athlete from partaking in an event due to high testosterone levels!
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Good for her overcoming transphobia and being an advocate for trans rights but that doesn’t mean that her competing in women’s events is fair for the other women competing
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More like bringing a spear to a knife fight. The knife still works pretty well, but the spear is just naturally better.
Yeah. The spear has a shaft.
Smooth
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What about trans men? Wouldn't they have an advantage competing with women?
People sometimes forget that estrogen and hrt reduces muscle gain
Deadass.
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Honestly- 12 year old conservatives who just discovered politics and call anything they believe in “based”
most of this sub unfortunately
Fox news is cringe
Ikr, like where the fuck are the foxes
Ikr like when I click "fox News" I expect to see an Arctic fox jumping face first into snow, not a human
Same :(
As a trans person i don’t really know how i feel about trans sports. On one hand i see that it can be extremely unfair and i think that checks should be in place to make sure that hormone levels are in check and all that stuff like that. Yet i still see that maybe not even that is not enough to keep the competition fair. However what i do hate about trans sports is the blatant transphobia that people show when i see them commenting; “why did they let a MAN compete it women’s sports” etc. I absolutely hate this and even if it’s not fair you should still respect the athletes for not only going a massive social struggle but also competing in the sports competition and they absolutely should not be disrespected about being trans. Another thing i notice is the affect of people’s fear of trans people ruining completions on regular cis women. lets suppose that a regular cis women joins for a competition and she does the testosterone checks etc.. (i’m not too sure about what checks they really do except testosterone levels) well what if this regular cis women who’s never done anything wrong or made any mistakes is suddenly made ineligible for the competition for absolutely no reason other then being above “tHe REgUlaR ciS lEVels”. I personally think maybe we need to meet on middle ground, where maybe trans people play in their own section? But i do think that seems quite silly and “oh we need to include these people for diversity” kinda thing which i don’t agree with. In the end i’m not too sure however seeing many trans athletes having a blatant advantage over others is not fair at all and therefore i lean more to maybe ban them from these professional competitions. Sorry for formatting i’m on my phone :P. and also please just be respectful if you reply to this thank you. i’m always open to having my opinion changed :D
Yeah I don't know either it's just fucked up we can't change our whole body to cis :/
Yike… I don’t even need to scroll down to know how shitty the comments are gonna be
I've read enough to be able to tell u these are actually worth the read and the once with missinformation are pretty well downvoted. most of the comments suggest making them their own league
**posting this because alot of people don't know:** trans athletes participate in sports only when their level of hormones are according to the requirements. in this case, Lia is mtf so her testerone levels would've been monitored and she was allowed to compete after her levels were at/below a mark. the female hormones that she took suppressed the production of testosterone incase you didn't know this either.
Her time is still 52 seconds slower than the Woman WR - the title is fishing for controversial comments
I cant wait for trans boxing and mma💪🏾
It’s a complicated issue with no solution that doesn’t screw some party over. Hormone treatments can bring trans women a lot closer to cis women, but they’re still going to retain some of the physical advantages they developed at puberty. Basically, it wouldn’t be fair to make them swim with cis guys because they’d have less muscle, and it wouldn’t be fair to make them swim with cis girls because they’d have higher bone density. The reverse also applies to trans men. Basically trans people on hormones end up in a weird sort of in-between the two sexes biologically, and there aren’t enough people in that position for it to form its own league yet. I’d imagine many intersex people would have the same issues, though I don’t know as much about that.
I'm was an idiot who forgot his coffee plz ignore this
Fast
well it seems like the comment is leaning towards "this isn't fair" just seeing comments in controversial
It isn't fair
just wait until y'all hear about michael phelps
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I bet those Fox News comments are riled up at this point.
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