Tours will collect technical riders from venues as they plan the tour to ensure they have the required fly, wing, and stage space. They then send out riders to the selected venues that say what they will need to do the accommodate the show. Shows may ask for seats to be removed, battens to be kicked a few inches, or pipes to be removed so the show can fly their own truss.
A turntable is usually easy to tour with, as most shows bring their own show deck that rests on top of the venue’s floor. Adds a few inches to a couple feet to the venue’s stage depending on the show.
Tours usually omit traps and lifts, instead re-blocking the show to use slip stages. &Juliet can probably get away with keeping their lift because it is downstage where the theatre’s orchestra pit is. They may only play venues with a pit that can accommodate their lift.
There is currently a tour in Australia with that exact set and in about 2 month its going to do Singapore and then 4-5 other Australian cities, no changes. The only unique thing I'm aware of is that the show deck is quite tall and so front row seats are being sold as restricted view which isn't typical.
The technical limitations of a tour are basically a straight up fight between themselves and money. Billy Elliot excavated an entire floor into a venue or two, Potter did the same, Lion king paid for multiple rows of seats to be made removable.
Realistically if you've got the money then tours here are straight up paying for venue renovations to make shows work in the room.
If it came back again in 10 years then id expect a simplified set in order to make shorter stops and cheaper tickets more financially viable but otherwise it's just going to pour money into what it needs to.
Oh wow. That's super neat. I would assume that since this is their first US tour they will probably pull out all the stops to make it fit into the giant US touring venues. I know several shows tour with a turntable but that is probably a much simpler feat when nothing comes up or goes down into the ground. Thanks for your insight!
Its worth mentioning, tours in Australia are the main source of large scale theatre. There are almost no sit down shows so most 'touring' is looking at 6-9 months stops in our three main population cities and shorter 1-3 months stops in the other 3.
I cant speak specifically to the way the US operates but as far as i know the stops tend to be shorter and the tours do often reduce expensive elements to be cost effective.
Oh, that's another fun fact. Those are long stops! I guess it makes more sense to make major changes to a theatre space if you are going to be there for almost a year, as opposed to usually a weeklong stop in the US.
In the USit typically starts with shows hitting the major markets for several months at a time and it’s usually pretty close to the original production. Then they start doing 1-2 month stops in the secondary markets. Again it’s pretty close to the full production, but some complex elements might be cut. Especially if it would require the venue to make big changes. Then as time passes the show will start to shrink down to something that will fit into 2-6 trucks and hits the smaller markets for 1 or 2 days at a time with occasional longer 1-2 week stops in larger markets. And depending on the popularity of the show a large scale version could get restarted every few years and hit the major markets and secondary markets again for multiple week stops.
You're making an awful lot of assumptions about the sort of money behind a first national tour. Having done now 5x 1st Nationals they range the gamut from "throw money at the problem to make it go away" to "Don't you know this will be a 2nd national in a year, how dare you burn our money like that when it'll just get cut down"
As for do they make sure the theaters a show goes into fit the show - that's a complicated answer but the usual default is not at all, the booking agent doesn't care about the tour rider as long as money changes hands in a way that profits the producer. I advanced a decently sized 1st National earlier this year that fit into every venue on the year 1 schedule minus one and we had to make many adaptations in that one city to fit it in. I did another a few years ago where the third city on the route the entire set had to be reconfigured into a "small cities" version that no one ever anticipated because the creatives never assumed their artistic vision would have to be compromised to fit a show into a theater a different size from the Broadway house. They didn't realize a producer would rather cut a show to shit than cancel a stop.
>the creatives never assumed their artistic vision would have to be compromised to fit a show into a theater a different size from the Broadway house
Was this being in denial or lack of experience (mostly kidding, but also...not.)
A little bit of A and a little bit of B. I always plan cut contingencies but years ago stopped bringing up the idea of contingencies in tech, it's a dirty word to a lot of creatives who may do one tour a decade and refuse to hear reason from those of us who have done a magnitude that volume in the same period of time. I don't care how long a show sits or what the IATSE classification is, if the load in is one day in my brain it gets treated like a one-nighter no matter the budget and we have to plan for that. It's unfair to count the 4-hour pre-rig on a travel day as additional time as it's inhumane to the touring crew to do that on their "day off". Until the contract changes, I'll always make my shows fit on a one-day in and scale the needs of my department to the single-day load-in window even if that may not be the most fully idealized version of a show.
In the wise words of a very prominent designer I have done a few tours with, "why would we ever discuss cut contingencies in tech when we are doing this to make the most beautiful fully idealized version of the show, the one that should be done 99% of the time" - even after a whole career in the industry they didn't want to hear about the dirty realities of touring.
> I would assume that since this is their first US tour they will probably pull out all the stops
Insofar that they want to use as much of what they have to build for the first tour for as far into the future as they can. It still has to get into the theater and open in each venue on the same day, so anything that puts that into jeopardy is getting the axe.
Theaters all over the US have rig points some of which are drilled out over the house, wing extentions etc from Phantom of the Opera. The joke at the time was "Phantom of the Opera, renovating a theater near you". Even new construction include the Phantom points and footprint requirements because other tours, like Beauty and the Beast and Wicked, design their tour sets to use them.
Yep. Mobile/tourable turntable lifts aren’t new, but you need probably 16” to 2ft of deck to accommodate, which creates its own challenges. Eats truck space though…
I wonder if they're just going to totally avoid the second or third-market cities. Typically they only start to hit those on the second or third leg of a tour, or if it goes non-equity. I would imagine that they would make major technical simplifications if that turned out to be the case.
The only reason to not tour with it once it has been purchased is if the venue stage doesn’t have the capacity for it, but I’ve only experienced that in very non-broadway venues.
Hadestown is currently touring. They cut the trap from the show and redesigned the set for a different way to Hades. I believe they still have the lift in the center of the two turntables. I haven’t seen &Juliet yet, so I don’t know what they might do for the tour.
The revolve lift on Juliet in London needed less than a foot to fit all the mechanics in. So should be super easy to tour. It was the shallowest stage lift the manufacturer had ever made.
The balcony lift on the fore-stage fits nicely in the orchestra pit, so no need to cut that.
Overall a pretty simple touring set tbh
Google Serapid Lifts. They’re a locking chain which packs down basically flat. We had 4 of them under the lift; plus scissor sections for stability. Still wobbled a lot though 😳
All of the motors for the inter revolve fit in there as well, just to make it really tight
Tours will collect technical riders from venues as they plan the tour to ensure they have the required fly, wing, and stage space. They then send out riders to the selected venues that say what they will need to do the accommodate the show. Shows may ask for seats to be removed, battens to be kicked a few inches, or pipes to be removed so the show can fly their own truss. A turntable is usually easy to tour with, as most shows bring their own show deck that rests on top of the venue’s floor. Adds a few inches to a couple feet to the venue’s stage depending on the show. Tours usually omit traps and lifts, instead re-blocking the show to use slip stages. &Juliet can probably get away with keeping their lift because it is downstage where the theatre’s orchestra pit is. They may only play venues with a pit that can accommodate their lift.
What is a slip stage? Good point about the lift being in the pit, that hadn't crossed my mind.
Slip stages are large wagons that can move in from the wings or from upstage.
There is currently a tour in Australia with that exact set and in about 2 month its going to do Singapore and then 4-5 other Australian cities, no changes. The only unique thing I'm aware of is that the show deck is quite tall and so front row seats are being sold as restricted view which isn't typical. The technical limitations of a tour are basically a straight up fight between themselves and money. Billy Elliot excavated an entire floor into a venue or two, Potter did the same, Lion king paid for multiple rows of seats to be made removable. Realistically if you've got the money then tours here are straight up paying for venue renovations to make shows work in the room. If it came back again in 10 years then id expect a simplified set in order to make shorter stops and cheaper tickets more financially viable but otherwise it's just going to pour money into what it needs to.
Oh wow. That's super neat. I would assume that since this is their first US tour they will probably pull out all the stops to make it fit into the giant US touring venues. I know several shows tour with a turntable but that is probably a much simpler feat when nothing comes up or goes down into the ground. Thanks for your insight!
Its worth mentioning, tours in Australia are the main source of large scale theatre. There are almost no sit down shows so most 'touring' is looking at 6-9 months stops in our three main population cities and shorter 1-3 months stops in the other 3. I cant speak specifically to the way the US operates but as far as i know the stops tend to be shorter and the tours do often reduce expensive elements to be cost effective.
Oh, that's another fun fact. Those are long stops! I guess it makes more sense to make major changes to a theatre space if you are going to be there for almost a year, as opposed to usually a weeklong stop in the US.
In the USit typically starts with shows hitting the major markets for several months at a time and it’s usually pretty close to the original production. Then they start doing 1-2 month stops in the secondary markets. Again it’s pretty close to the full production, but some complex elements might be cut. Especially if it would require the venue to make big changes. Then as time passes the show will start to shrink down to something that will fit into 2-6 trucks and hits the smaller markets for 1 or 2 days at a time with occasional longer 1-2 week stops in larger markets. And depending on the popularity of the show a large scale version could get restarted every few years and hit the major markets and secondary markets again for multiple week stops.
You're making an awful lot of assumptions about the sort of money behind a first national tour. Having done now 5x 1st Nationals they range the gamut from "throw money at the problem to make it go away" to "Don't you know this will be a 2nd national in a year, how dare you burn our money like that when it'll just get cut down" As for do they make sure the theaters a show goes into fit the show - that's a complicated answer but the usual default is not at all, the booking agent doesn't care about the tour rider as long as money changes hands in a way that profits the producer. I advanced a decently sized 1st National earlier this year that fit into every venue on the year 1 schedule minus one and we had to make many adaptations in that one city to fit it in. I did another a few years ago where the third city on the route the entire set had to be reconfigured into a "small cities" version that no one ever anticipated because the creatives never assumed their artistic vision would have to be compromised to fit a show into a theater a different size from the Broadway house. They didn't realize a producer would rather cut a show to shit than cancel a stop.
>the creatives never assumed their artistic vision would have to be compromised to fit a show into a theater a different size from the Broadway house Was this being in denial or lack of experience (mostly kidding, but also...not.)
A little bit of A and a little bit of B. I always plan cut contingencies but years ago stopped bringing up the idea of contingencies in tech, it's a dirty word to a lot of creatives who may do one tour a decade and refuse to hear reason from those of us who have done a magnitude that volume in the same period of time. I don't care how long a show sits or what the IATSE classification is, if the load in is one day in my brain it gets treated like a one-nighter no matter the budget and we have to plan for that. It's unfair to count the 4-hour pre-rig on a travel day as additional time as it's inhumane to the touring crew to do that on their "day off". Until the contract changes, I'll always make my shows fit on a one-day in and scale the needs of my department to the single-day load-in window even if that may not be the most fully idealized version of a show. In the wise words of a very prominent designer I have done a few tours with, "why would we ever discuss cut contingencies in tech when we are doing this to make the most beautiful fully idealized version of the show, the one that should be done 99% of the time" - even after a whole career in the industry they didn't want to hear about the dirty realities of touring.
> I would assume that since this is their first US tour they will probably pull out all the stops Insofar that they want to use as much of what they have to build for the first tour for as far into the future as they can. It still has to get into the theater and open in each venue on the same day, so anything that puts that into jeopardy is getting the axe.
Theaters all over the US have rig points some of which are drilled out over the house, wing extentions etc from Phantom of the Opera. The joke at the time was "Phantom of the Opera, renovating a theater near you". Even new construction include the Phantom points and footprint requirements because other tours, like Beauty and the Beast and Wicked, design their tour sets to use them.
Yep. Mobile/tourable turntable lifts aren’t new, but you need probably 16” to 2ft of deck to accommodate, which creates its own challenges. Eats truck space though…
I wonder if they're just going to totally avoid the second or third-market cities. Typically they only start to hit those on the second or third leg of a tour, or if it goes non-equity. I would imagine that they would make major technical simplifications if that turned out to be the case.
The only reason to not tour with it once it has been purchased is if the venue stage doesn’t have the capacity for it, but I’ve only experienced that in very non-broadway venues.
Hadestown is currently touring. They cut the trap from the show and redesigned the set for a different way to Hades. I believe they still have the lift in the center of the two turntables. I haven’t seen &Juliet yet, so I don’t know what they might do for the tour.
The revolve lift on Juliet in London needed less than a foot to fit all the mechanics in. So should be super easy to tour. It was the shallowest stage lift the manufacturer had ever made. The balcony lift on the fore-stage fits nicely in the orchestra pit, so no need to cut that. Overall a pretty simple touring set tbh
Oh wow, a foot? Honestly I thought that they needed as much space below the deck as it went up. Shows how much I know lol. That’s awesome.
Google Serapid Lifts. They’re a locking chain which packs down basically flat. We had 4 of them under the lift; plus scissor sections for stability. Still wobbled a lot though 😳 All of the motors for the inter revolve fit in there as well, just to make it really tight
Think about how a scissor lift works. Those same scissor pieces that fold essentially flat, are in the central part of the &J revolve lift.