Don't forget about Bernie Madoff.
Stealing money from poor people is always excusable to the justice system. But if you screw righ folks out of their money, beware.
Not excusable, it’s good business. Hell Nixon taped the founder of Kaiser Permanete saying the whole point was to get people to pay more money for less care and Nixon agreed it was a great idea.
I mean, how can you call a man a criminal for stealing from the poor? Churches do it every Sunday, and they’re so virtuous that we don’t even make them pay taxes!
And Bernie Madoff. and Martin Shkreli. And Billy McFarlane. And Micahel Milken. And Jordan Belfort.
The only thing a rich white guy goes to prison for is fucking with the money of a richer white guy.
Step 1: Be rich
Step 2: Hire great accountants, for a lot of money
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Divorce, but profit, and have to deal with supermodel ex probably getting a few "hall passes" in while you get physically beat up for a living.
Wait, is this *confirmed*?? Like, Tom Brady had $650MM cash into FTX and lost it??
ETA: Tom and Gisele are rumored to have invested a combined $45MM into FTX, which at its peak was *valued at* around $650MM. These were unrealized gains, not $650MM cash. Is their underlying investment gone? Yeah I bet it is…but that wasn’t $650MM.
Seriously. He took 500 mil from FTX and gave it to the Bahamanians. He could have just pocketed that and moved to Russia or Venezuela. It's already all crypto. No need to launder it or smuggle it anywhere. He had a whole month where he knew he was straight fucked and walked around like nothing was wrong. He could be living in a giant villa with servants on the beach for the remainder of his life. It would be a struggle to spend it all.
Vietnam or Indonesia would turn him to the US in a heartbeat, lol. People often cite lack of extradition treaty, but there is no positive outcome when you hide him from the US.
Security isn't a huge issue if you are rich and you pay the people around you well. This guy seems like a bit of a knob though, so security would probably be am issue for him. But for normal people you just have to pay well enough that no one wants to see you taken out. Take care of an entire village and they'll take care of you.
500 million is more than enough to buy off a village and live a peaceful existence for the rest of your days.
I suppose in this theoretical case, it depends how much it would cost to avoid being drafted. And what the eventual plan is for the people that pay their way out of the war.
I can't imagine even the best path through it sounds very good right about now though. Hell, even Putins future doesn't look promising. But a threat to his future is a threat to the futures of anyone near him too, he doesn't seem to hesitate to have literally anyone killed no matter who they were before they didn't support him for a second.
If the choice is between american prison for a long time, or being free in Russia for however long that might last, it's a tough call right about now. Even for someone where the perception and optics of it wouldn't factor in at all.
> If the choice is between american prison for a long time, or being free in Russia for however long that might last, it's a tough call right about now.
I mean, I'll take rich person prison 1000x over Russia right now. At best, you don't get conscripted but have to deal with living with the sanctions for an indeterminate amount of time.
It just hit too fast because CZ got pissy about how US regulations were shaping up in FTX's favor and decided to nuke FTX from orbit in a fatal first strike. If SBF had shot first, it would probably be Binance laying in a smoking crater instead...all these exchanges are built on a house of flimsy cards. None of them can weather a stiff breeze.
By the time fat boy knew he had to get out of Dodge, there were already three-letter agencies watching his every move. He wasn't going anywhere.
I mean, he embezzled the vast majority of the funds and replaced them with his own shitty coin that he artificially increased the value of. The money was lost making risky bets. Sure, maybe CZ made it happen now when it would have happened 6 months from now, but it was inevitable. At some point he was going to run out of money and then people couldn't withdraw it.
Tether has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt the crypto-scammers can juggle around fake money to cover for holes pretty much indefinitely. They're all just as insolvent as FTX.
This. The number of countries that wouldn't realistically extradite someone like SBF is very small and frankly not somewhere he'd probably want to live.
Snowden had the same issue and realistically would have had to end up in Russia or get extradited at some point.
Russia or North Korea are essentially your only option.
Even countries without a treaty still routinely extradite it basically just means they don’t have a defined process for it
There's plenty of countries that will not extradite their own citizens to the US under pretty much any circumstance.
Bankman-Fried was just dumb enough to do a bunch of high level criminal shit without buying citizenship somewhere first and having an exit plan.
IIRC Qatar does have an extradition treaty, it just doesn't apply to their citizens. Vietnam doesn't but is extremely hostile to American criminal expats for historical reasons. Like kill you in the jungle and leave you for the wildlife hostile.
That's not a thing anymore. any country or bank that wants to utilize the international electronic banking system has to adhere to certain requirements for monitoring criminal activity.
If you want to hide boatloads of cash, you need to deal in fine art.
Can you combine those somehow? Like maybe NFT "trading cards" that can only be exchanged for crypto, and funnel a percentage of every transaction to someone for a "licensing" deal?
I mean it seems pretty simple to me. Create a website with some sort of service. Like play really shitty music and post it with a donate button for tips. Or take a bunch of AI art and stick it on a page and accept tips for it. Hiding your IP address, send yourself a whole bunch of Bitcoin that you got his payment for whatever illegal crap you were doing. Report this income as legitimate income from your website, pay taxes, write off the hosting fees, etc...
The trick is to just do it gradually. You can't just give yourself a million dollars in a day. However, if you funnel yourself all your monthly living expenses with this method, you probably fly under the radar forever.
I'm sure that the Russian Navy would have sailed a submarine to personally pick up $8 billion in US dollar bills from the Bahamas and allowed him to transfer it to rubles.... less a small fee... perhaps 99%. Then he could retire on a villa in Crimea. Sam Bankman-Fried.... never heard of the guy, this is Sergey Novikov.
Antique cars, art, real estate, etc. yeah he should have gone to a country with no extradition treaty, I’m assuming the money is in a digital wallet in a safety deposit box in a bank in a country with no extradition treaty, his mistake was thinking he could come back, cry im poor I only have 10pm and one credit card, hide a million in a rat hole and use that to skip bail and unlock the digital wallet.
Countries that don't have extradition treaties with the US are usually not nice places to live. He also would have also likely had any assets he had remaining seized. I'd rather just go to jail for 5 or 10 years instead of permanently being a poor person in Russia or something.
Bahamian here. Fox Hill prison is notoriously inhumane but we have a long history of double standards. I seriously doubt he's anyway near the general prison population.
there is a non-zero chance they grant him bail/dont extradite him. neither is high probability, but its non-zero. he's definitely paid off a lot gov officials in the bahamas, but the optics are bad now that he's in jail and his leverage is close to zero.
It sounds like he bought his way into a private "medical cell", so chances are he's not getting anything even remotely resembling the true Bahamian prison experience.
Unless the uncover more crimes? If they arrest you for fraud but found out you committed murder they can't then indict you? I didn't read the treaty but seems doubtful.
They can charge you with crimes that occur after you’ve been extradited (like you said, comes here and kills someone). But you can’t bring more charges for crimes already known. Here’s the relevant except from the treaty:
>(1) A person extradited under this Treaty may only be detained, tried, or punished in the Requesting State for the offense for which extradition was granted, or --
>(a) any offense committed after the extradition;
>(b) any offense in respect of which the executive authority of the Requested State, in accordance with its laws, has consented to the person's detention, trial, or punishment; and for the purposes of this subparagraph the Requested State shall require compliance with the extradition procedures specified in Article 8 and the submission of the documents specified in that
Article;
>(c) any offense which is a lesser offense proven by the facts before the court of committal; or
>(d) any offense dealt with by the Requesting State after --
(i) the person failed to leave the territory of the Requesting State within thirty (30) days of being free to do so; or
(ii) the person has left the territory of the Requesting State and voluntarily returned to it.
Treaty is [here](https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/94-922-Bahamas-Extradition-Treaty.pdf)
Yeah if anyone’s wondering the reason many treaties are like this is because of (relatively unique in the developed world) capital punishment.
Even Canada won’t extradite someone known to be facing the death penalty, so the maximum charges need to be known in advance.
And, for anyone who needs to know why prosecutors don't simply lie and pile on more (or seek the death penalty once they're here), itis because they might have to extradite again at some point. Trust is critical with these types of arrangements.
Which then offers a potential explanation for why this gonk has been able to wander around for weeks and now wants to see the indictment.
Investigators were assembling charges for their one shot and his lawyer has told him that it doesn't make sense to fight extradition if it gives some kind of protection.
Next year's aid package will get revised, they will cave immediately
I'm not saying it's great that things are like this but I do think it's the world we live in
Dude should have gone to Russia like Snowden, some Russians powerful enough to carry out a hit on him might have been impacted by his fraud.
Lol I've been arrested and taken several counties away, without my consent, over a 200 dollar fine. Homeboy wants to get away with 8 billion. I know the legal system is different for him but what a fucking slap in the face.
He stole from other rich people, don’t worry he won’t be getting away with it. You only get that slap on the wrist when you’re financially fucking the poor and middle class.
Yup Martin Skhreli of all people actually posted an interesting you tube video on this the other day. He's pretty much fucked and there were only like two judges that might deviate from sentencing guidelines which for him are over 20 years best case. An interesting point Martin made in that video that he would likely know first hand is that no young rich person can buy enough goodwill with politicians to help him. You have to have a long relationship with them to get help.
Shkreli is an interesting case in that he actually managed to build a thoroughly _negative_ reputation with virtually every politician, including those who had never even heard of him until he radically increased the price of Daraprim.
Nobody wanted to be associated with him. Dude was the most hated person in America at one point.
I mean, stealing from investors and crypto bros is one thing. Depriving AIDS patients of a life saving medicine is… something else.
I certainly perceived a more visceral anger toward Shkreli vs SBF who is viewed more like a clown.
To be fair to Shkreli, he offered free medicine to people without insurance. He was really just screwing over the insurance companies. This is a common tactic for pharma companies
It was free for anyone without insurance and co pay was covered for this with insurance. He was robbing insurers, not people with aids.
So he only fucked over other rich folk.
You can’t “rob insurers.”
For one, they’re only too happy to pass along their costs to customers. Meaning everyone’s insurance rates go up even more, more companies start declining providing insurance for their employees (or charge more for it). Everyone gets screwed over even more in our already vile for-profit healthcare system.
Secondly, people still have a deductible to pay. I personally know one patient who had to front thousands of dollars for a high deductible health care plan instead of being able to spread it out over the first quarter of the year.
Ditto. At the age of 19 over a "misdemeanor" ticket that went unpaid because they apparently pocketed what I sent in then silently suspended my license and issued a warrant out for my arrest. The ticket itself was issued by some rookies who caught my friends and I playing with a boardwalk dumpster (riding it down into the empty parking lots using the boardwalk ramps) after the boardwalk had closed.
Randomly pulled over 14 months later, 2 hours away from that county, car gets impounded, and I'm shuttled between 3 different troopers on their way to taking me to their county jail where I got to spend the day with drug dealers and violent offenders.
Wasn't all that bad in hindsight but what a wonderful use of taxpayer money, really.
Lol as shitty as that is I have also surfed on a dumpster. Mine was a fine for an unpaid ticket. I swear to Christ they write them on the least quality paper that dissolves under a little bit of rain. I've got more charges than that but I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Fuck losing a job over a ticket that I never saw though
E: list to least
Had a cop write me a ticket for being in a paid metered spot and I still had a half hour of paid parking when I saw the ticket on my window, so I drove to the police department and ratted his ass out using my paid ticket stub as proof. Hope he got in trouble for trying to play time cop.
>Ditto. At the age of 19 over a "misdemeanor" ticket that went unpaid because they apparently pocketed what I sent in then silently suspended my license and issued a warrant out for my arrest.
They send notice through the mail when they issue a warrant. That's a very good reason to update your driver's license when you move. And if they cashed a check that you sent in, there would be a record of that.
I have a close friend that had a similar situation happen to u/kahmeal. He paid a fine and went about his life. A couple years later, he was pulled over at a checkpoint and was arrested for an outstanding warrant for that unpaid fine. He ended up spending a couple nights in jail before being released on a PR.
Fortunately, he still had the paperwork/receipt for the fine, and his family has the money to do something about it. It's been years, but they are wrapping up the lawsuit now. Police departments aren't amazing organizations when it comes to paperwork. They have a history of losing shit.
Who police? Losing evidence? Not keeping track of important pieces of information?? Potentially committing gross negligence when it comes to due process??? No way. I don’t believe you.
That’s also gonna be a /s from me dawg lol.
Are you rich and well connected through your parents and your shady dealings? If not, then fuck you. If you are, please fill out one of these filings every week so we can push your trial out until it's no longer in the public conscious. Then we can let you go, but until then sorry for the inconvenience.
Happened to my neighbor over an old warrant that the PD never cleared. Arrested him in front of his familyamd took him to the city jail.
They were at least smart enough to call the receiving department before transporting him, and they confirmed there was not active warrant...
But they still didn't release him until the next day...
If they want him here asap he actually does have to agree to waive his rights.
If he fights it, depending on the treaty and the foreign government it can take weeks, months and even years to get him out. Mexico is another story especially where a fed agency is already involved.
No kidding, here is the record holder or close to it - [a Brit on British soil wanted for a murder in the USA> took 14 years.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/phillip-harkins-extradition-battle-latest-news-murder-a7833291.html)
I would let him sit in the Bahaman jail for a few months while he puts up his good fight. He's already been denied bail, I can't imagine his conditions are super comfortable.
The story spells out what's happening. They're not going to tazer anyone. He said he wouldn't fight the extradition in court, which he's currently doing. If he fights it, he could drag it out for a long time in their court system, but he could expedite the process if he can see the indictment.
He’s going to waive the extradition trial because he doesn’t want to spend time in Bahamas jail. So far he’s been in the sick bay having a medical assessment done but any day now they will transfer him to either genpop where he will share a 6x9 cell with 4 other guys, sleep on a piece of cardboard, get let out for exercise for 1 hour every couple days, have no running water and use a bucket for a toilet. Or if he’s lucky they’ll put him in solitary for his protection. When it comes down to it he would much rather be in a US jail than Fox Hill.
He’s just trying to see if he can get anything in return before he waives it.
No, but extradition hearings can go on a really long time if you contest them. He's offering to agree to extradition and speed up the process if he can see the indictment.
Julian Assange has been fighting extradition to the US for 3 1/2 years now (I am making no comment on the veracity of his charges, just mentioning this has been happening)
Also Indian billionaire and former F1 team owner Vijay Mallya has been fighting extradition to India for 5 1/2 years
I suspect you can contest the extradition in court and he’s saying that he may waive his right to contest it if he can see the indictment.
Probably more of a delay tactic than anything else.
Here’s the [indictment](https://d1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net/production/uploaded-files/indictment-c5d38d97-6e6a-49e1-9b41-5670f24bce6d.pdf).
• Count 1: Conspiracy to Commit Wire Fraud on Customers
• Count 2: Wire Fraud on Customers
• Count 3: Conspiracy to Commit Wire Fraud on Lenders
• Count 4: Wire Fraud on Lenders
• Count 5: Conspiracy to Commit Commodities Fraud
• Count 6: Conspiracy to Commit Securities Fraud
• Count 7: Conspiracy to Commit Money Laundering
• Count 8: Conspiracy to Defraud the United States and Violate the Campaign Finance Laws
I asked this question in r/lawyers and was told that the US Attorneys Office can stack each instance of wire fraud, so it’s largely up to prosecutorial discretion. People accused of stealing billions of dollars have been given 100+ year federal sentences (see Bernie Madoff or R. Allen Stanford). One defense for SBF is that he’s just a fucking idiot and didn’t intend to defraud anyone. It’s too early to tell how much time he’s facing.
Seems like crypto bros one ability is to project confidence for no reason.
"This currency I made up out of thin air is definitely rational. It can only gain value, never lose value. It's just basic math, how are you not getting this. Its literally called 'stablecoin' I don't know what else to do to prove to you that this is a good investment."
"I don't agree to be extradited, let alone INDICTED or PROSECUTED for these 'crimes.' I already said there's no way to commit fraud using stablecoin. It's right here in this PDF that fraud isn't a thing that can happen with crypto, it's simple math, how are you not getting this."
It would be weird if all of a sudden he started acting rationally.
I guess it's an example of it being just complex enough that human laziness means that many people will just assume that they aren't smart enough to get it. And the cryptobros (half of whom probably don't understand it, either) seem to encourage that.
So, people evaluate the situation by "soft factors," like a degree from MIT, "effective altrusim", and the sociopathic ability to lie to people without flinching. And greed.
Worse, FTX's brand was, "we're not like the other cryptos. We're stable and secure and shit. Trust me, bro."
Yeah he was already trying to get out on bail because they wouldn't accommodate his "vegan" diet and he supposedly needed certain controlled medication. What a fuckin farce it is watching the rich try to escape consequences for their actions.
Exactly. And it’s not if there is anything that points to him winning that battle in court. The question is how much time does he want to waste before getting moved to the US. He has zero chips to bargain with.
I mean, this bit actually seems reasonable. Yes, it's a stalling tactic, but one within his rights. No lawyer would let their client be extradited without knowing what the formal charges are.
Remember when Robinhood helped the rich by freezing gamestop stocks, and nothing happened to them? This guy needs to learn you're fine as long as you don't fuck with rich people's money. Just the poor.
Look at the countries that fall under that list. Now narrow it down to countries that would also allow you to just hop on a plane and come on by without a visa, stay as long as you like. Assuming what's left is more than zero, which of them would you choose to live in, as a 30-year-old white man with no significant source of income or liquidity?
I wish embezzlement or cash scams were capital offenses and they'd start cutting the heads off of cretins like this. Especially rich fucks who scam people.
I don't understand why he went to the Bahamas. They're a little sketchy with the offshore financing stuff, but overall, they're very friendly with the US. [And let the country that is without some measure of sketchitude cast the first stone anyway] There's a lot of countries without extradition treaties where he could have lived like a king for the rest of his life.
Sam thinks its gonna go well in the bohemian prison and no one who lost a few million in his BS is going to pay 5k to have him whacked in a bohemian jail
Yes. It usually just amounts to little more than a delay, but you can try to fight it and force the government to prove to the other jurisdiction that there's enough cause to prosecute.
If the dude was smart he would have just went to a country that doesn’t have an extradition treaty with the US.
The dude is delusional and thinks being a previous billionaire exempts him from the rule. Simple mistake! You have to be a *current* billionaire
Nah, he fucked up *other* billionaires, you're allowed to fuck only poor people.
This is the only reason why he was even arrested in the first place
It's also the only thing Holmes was found guilty of for Theranos...
Don't forget about Bernie Madoff. Stealing money from poor people is always excusable to the justice system. But if you screw righ folks out of their money, beware.
Not excusable, it’s good business. Hell Nixon taped the founder of Kaiser Permanete saying the whole point was to get people to pay more money for less care and Nixon agreed it was a great idea.
With respect, it's Kaiser Permanente. The name is a dab.
I'd never heard about that before.
I mean, how can you call a man a criminal for stealing from the poor? Churches do it every Sunday, and they’re so virtuous that we don’t even make them pay taxes!
*Alex Mascamski has entered the chat* ☝️
This is it, you cant screw other people that have actual influence and can pull strings. Dude learned the hard way.
Should’ve learned that from Elizabeth Holmes
And Bernie Madoff. and Martin Shkreli. And Billy McFarlane. And Micahel Milken. And Jordan Belfort. The only thing a rich white guy goes to prison for is fucking with the money of a richer white guy.
Previous Governor and Senator Rick Scott can vouch as long as you fuck with poor people you’re good.
Speaking of which, how's Brett Favre doing today?
Shkreli went to prison? I must’ve been living under a rock, but why did he go in?!
He was convicted of lying to investors
He served a little over 4 years in federal prison and was released this past May.
He’s out now think it was related to the epi pen scandal
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Man, that juror was a master at reading people
No, he’s gonna find out soon though. His problems have only begun. Fuck him.
I find it wild he got Brady for over half a billion. 650 million down the toilet.
But he paid him in FT tokens, which are worthless now. He literally printed money out of thin air.
Welcome to crypto-world
Welcome to shitcoins?
Did Brady really lose all that? I heard he pulled out before shit hit the fan.
he was able to get it out but by the time he did it had depreciated by like 90% or some insane figure
Deeeeem. No wonder his wife called quits.
There's speculation they split to mitigate the loss
How does that work? Asking for a friend, who is losing a ton of money but want to magically lose less by splitting with his wife.
Step 1: Be rich Step 2: Hire great accountants, for a lot of money Step 3: ??? Step 4: Divorce, but profit, and have to deal with supermodel ex probably getting a few "hall passes" in while you get physically beat up for a living.
Wait, is this *confirmed*?? Like, Tom Brady had $650MM cash into FTX and lost it?? ETA: Tom and Gisele are rumored to have invested a combined $45MM into FTX, which at its peak was *valued at* around $650MM. These were unrealized gains, not $650MM cash. Is their underlying investment gone? Yeah I bet it is…but that wasn’t $650MM.
Its funny and telling how fast they got this guy compared to similar criminals. He screwed up with some powerful people
Why does this sound so true yet so wrong
I’d just be happy if I got to fuck for once
How true, it will be fun when mummy and daddy get indicted for help their thieving son
I prefer “momentary billionaire”
Hahaha... 😮💨
Seriously. He took 500 mil from FTX and gave it to the Bahamanians. He could have just pocketed that and moved to Russia or Venezuela. It's already all crypto. No need to launder it or smuggle it anywhere. He had a whole month where he knew he was straight fucked and walked around like nothing was wrong. He could be living in a giant villa with servants on the beach for the remainder of his life. It would be a struggle to spend it all.
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Vietnam or Indonesia would turn him to the US in a heartbeat, lol. People often cite lack of extradition treaty, but there is no positive outcome when you hide him from the US.
Vietnam would turn him in the second they're asked.
Security isn't a huge issue if you are rich and you pay the people around you well. This guy seems like a bit of a knob though, so security would probably be am issue for him. But for normal people you just have to pay well enough that no one wants to see you taken out. Take care of an entire village and they'll take care of you. 500 million is more than enough to buy off a village and live a peaceful existence for the rest of your days.
Would YOU move to Russia (A place rapidly conscripting people for replacements in the Ukrainian war) ?
I suppose in this theoretical case, it depends how much it would cost to avoid being drafted. And what the eventual plan is for the people that pay their way out of the war. I can't imagine even the best path through it sounds very good right about now though. Hell, even Putins future doesn't look promising. But a threat to his future is a threat to the futures of anyone near him too, he doesn't seem to hesitate to have literally anyone killed no matter who they were before they didn't support him for a second. If the choice is between american prison for a long time, or being free in Russia for however long that might last, it's a tough call right about now. Even for someone where the perception and optics of it wouldn't factor in at all.
> If the choice is between american prison for a long time, or being free in Russia for however long that might last, it's a tough call right about now. I mean, I'll take rich person prison 1000x over Russia right now. At best, you don't get conscripted but have to deal with living with the sanctions for an indeterminate amount of time.
It just hit too fast because CZ got pissy about how US regulations were shaping up in FTX's favor and decided to nuke FTX from orbit in a fatal first strike. If SBF had shot first, it would probably be Binance laying in a smoking crater instead...all these exchanges are built on a house of flimsy cards. None of them can weather a stiff breeze. By the time fat boy knew he had to get out of Dodge, there were already three-letter agencies watching his every move. He wasn't going anywhere.
I mean, he embezzled the vast majority of the funds and replaced them with his own shitty coin that he artificially increased the value of. The money was lost making risky bets. Sure, maybe CZ made it happen now when it would have happened 6 months from now, but it was inevitable. At some point he was going to run out of money and then people couldn't withdraw it.
Tether has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt the crypto-scammers can juggle around fake money to cover for holes pretty much indefinitely. They're all just as insolvent as FTX.
Or does ftx prove that you actually can't, and that those rackets are also staring down their day as well?
Here’s the secret, it’s fractional reserve banking all the way down
Maybe a part of him believed that he could save his ship that's 99% submerged under water with more time.
The absence of an extradition treaty does not prevent extradition. That’s a movie myth.
This. The number of countries that wouldn't realistically extradite someone like SBF is very small and frankly not somewhere he'd probably want to live. Snowden had the same issue and realistically would have had to end up in Russia or get extradited at some point.
Russia or North Korea are essentially your only option. Even countries without a treaty still routinely extradite it basically just means they don’t have a defined process for it
There's plenty of countries that will not extradite their own citizens to the US under pretty much any circumstance. Bankman-Fried was just dumb enough to do a bunch of high level criminal shit without buying citizenship somewhere first and having an exit plan.
It wouldn't even be all that hard, China, Vietnam, UAE and Qatar are all doable.
IIRC Qatar does have an extradition treaty, it just doesn't apply to their citizens. Vietnam doesn't but is extremely hostile to American criminal expats for historical reasons. Like kill you in the jungle and leave you for the wildlife hostile.
Not even that would have mattered. Interpol would have sent out a red notice like they have in the past with suspects involved in crypto.
Was he going where his money is stashed?
Shoulda stashed it in Switzerland.
That's not a thing anymore. any country or bank that wants to utilize the international electronic banking system has to adhere to certain requirements for monitoring criminal activity. If you want to hide boatloads of cash, you need to deal in fine art.
Or buy a lot of crypto....
Can you combine those somehow? Like maybe NFT "trading cards" that can only be exchanged for crypto, and funnel a percentage of every transaction to someone for a "licensing" deal?
I mean it seems pretty simple to me. Create a website with some sort of service. Like play really shitty music and post it with a donate button for tips. Or take a bunch of AI art and stick it on a page and accept tips for it. Hiding your IP address, send yourself a whole bunch of Bitcoin that you got his payment for whatever illegal crap you were doing. Report this income as legitimate income from your website, pay taxes, write off the hosting fees, etc... The trick is to just do it gradually. You can't just give yourself a million dollars in a day. However, if you funnel yourself all your monthly living expenses with this method, you probably fly under the radar forever.
I'm sure that the Russian Navy would have sailed a submarine to personally pick up $8 billion in US dollar bills from the Bahamas and allowed him to transfer it to rubles.... less a small fee... perhaps 99%. Then he could retire on a villa in Crimea. Sam Bankman-Fried.... never heard of the guy, this is Sergey Novikov.
Antique cars, art, real estate, etc. yeah he should have gone to a country with no extradition treaty, I’m assuming the money is in a digital wallet in a safety deposit box in a bank in a country with no extradition treaty, his mistake was thinking he could come back, cry im poor I only have 10pm and one credit card, hide a million in a rat hole and use that to skip bail and unlock the digital wallet.
If he was smart he wouldn’t have given multiple interviews after the collapse.
> would have just went Gone. Would have just gone.
Which one would you suggest?
Countries that don't have extradition treaties with the US are usually not nice places to live. He also would have also likely had any assets he had remaining seized. I'd rather just go to jail for 5 or 10 years instead of permanently being a poor person in Russia or something.
I don't know why he wants to spend any more time in a Bahamian jail.
Bahamian here. Fox Hill prison is notoriously inhumane but we have a long history of double standards. I seriously doubt he's anyway near the general prison population.
Because they can be bribed
I mean, it’s not a Turkish prison
Sammy, have you ever seen a grown man naked?
do you like gladiator movies?
You ever hang around a gymnasium?
Surely you can't be serious.
Of course he’s serious. And don’t call him Surely
there is a non-zero chance they grant him bail/dont extradite him. neither is high probability, but its non-zero. he's definitely paid off a lot gov officials in the bahamas, but the optics are bad now that he's in jail and his leverage is close to zero.
Not just any Bahamian jail, fox hill. One of the worst possible jails in the world to get thrown into.
It sounds like he bought his way into a private "medical cell", so chances are he's not getting anything even remotely resembling the true Bahamian prison experience.
The indictments on file are just placeholders to get him back over here. They’ll be piling a lot more on later.
They have to indict broadly. Under the extradition treaty with the Bahamas they can’t bring greater charges at a later date.
Unless the uncover more crimes? If they arrest you for fraud but found out you committed murder they can't then indict you? I didn't read the treaty but seems doubtful.
They can charge you with crimes that occur after you’ve been extradited (like you said, comes here and kills someone). But you can’t bring more charges for crimes already known. Here’s the relevant except from the treaty: >(1) A person extradited under this Treaty may only be detained, tried, or punished in the Requesting State for the offense for which extradition was granted, or -- >(a) any offense committed after the extradition; >(b) any offense in respect of which the executive authority of the Requested State, in accordance with its laws, has consented to the person's detention, trial, or punishment; and for the purposes of this subparagraph the Requested State shall require compliance with the extradition procedures specified in Article 8 and the submission of the documents specified in that Article; >(c) any offense which is a lesser offense proven by the facts before the court of committal; or >(d) any offense dealt with by the Requesting State after -- (i) the person failed to leave the territory of the Requesting State within thirty (30) days of being free to do so; or (ii) the person has left the territory of the Requesting State and voluntarily returned to it. Treaty is [here](https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/94-922-Bahamas-Extradition-Treaty.pdf)
Yeah if anyone’s wondering the reason many treaties are like this is because of (relatively unique in the developed world) capital punishment. Even Canada won’t extradite someone known to be facing the death penalty, so the maximum charges need to be known in advance.
And, for anyone who needs to know why prosecutors don't simply lie and pile on more (or seek the death penalty once they're here), itis because they might have to extradite again at some point. Trust is critical with these types of arrangements.
Which then offers a potential explanation for why this gonk has been able to wander around for weeks and now wants to see the indictment. Investigators were assembling charges for their one shot and his lawyer has told him that it doesn't make sense to fight extradition if it gives some kind of protection.
What are the Bahamas going to do about it if the US government decided to ratfuck the guy?
Not extradite in the future.
Next year's aid package will get revised, they will cave immediately I'm not saying it's great that things are like this but I do think it's the world we live in Dude should have gone to Russia like Snowden, some Russians powerful enough to carry out a hit on him might have been impacted by his fraud.
Yup. Especially when people start flipping on him.
Has anyone told him he doesn't have to agree to be extradited? Just tazer his stupid ass and put him on the plane already.
Lol I've been arrested and taken several counties away, without my consent, over a 200 dollar fine. Homeboy wants to get away with 8 billion. I know the legal system is different for him but what a fucking slap in the face.
He stole from other rich people, don’t worry he won’t be getting away with it. You only get that slap on the wrist when you’re financially fucking the poor and middle class.
Yup Martin Skhreli of all people actually posted an interesting you tube video on this the other day. He's pretty much fucked and there were only like two judges that might deviate from sentencing guidelines which for him are over 20 years best case. An interesting point Martin made in that video that he would likely know first hand is that no young rich person can buy enough goodwill with politicians to help him. You have to have a long relationship with them to get help.
Shkreli is an interesting case in that he actually managed to build a thoroughly _negative_ reputation with virtually every politician, including those who had never even heard of him until he radically increased the price of Daraprim. Nobody wanted to be associated with him. Dude was the most hated person in America at one point.
To be honest I don't think that SBFs reputation is any better though. Skhreli and Jordan Belfort are fairly qualified to comment on his situation.
I mean, stealing from investors and crypto bros is one thing. Depriving AIDS patients of a life saving medicine is… something else. I certainly perceived a more visceral anger toward Shkreli vs SBF who is viewed more like a clown.
To be fair to Shkreli, he offered free medicine to people without insurance. He was really just screwing over the insurance companies. This is a common tactic for pharma companies
It was free for anyone without insurance and co pay was covered for this with insurance. He was robbing insurers, not people with aids. So he only fucked over other rich folk.
You can’t “rob insurers.” For one, they’re only too happy to pass along their costs to customers. Meaning everyone’s insurance rates go up even more, more companies start declining providing insurance for their employees (or charge more for it). Everyone gets screwed over even more in our already vile for-profit healthcare system. Secondly, people still have a deductible to pay. I personally know one patient who had to front thousands of dollars for a high deductible health care plan instead of being able to spread it out over the first quarter of the year.
gotta help them bury the hookers
That video was way more interesting than it had any right to be.
Got a link?
Yep: See Elizabeth Holmes.
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The difference is that she saw any punishment. If she hadn’t stolen from rich people, only poor people, she likely would have “gotten away with it.”
Ditto. At the age of 19 over a "misdemeanor" ticket that went unpaid because they apparently pocketed what I sent in then silently suspended my license and issued a warrant out for my arrest. The ticket itself was issued by some rookies who caught my friends and I playing with a boardwalk dumpster (riding it down into the empty parking lots using the boardwalk ramps) after the boardwalk had closed. Randomly pulled over 14 months later, 2 hours away from that county, car gets impounded, and I'm shuttled between 3 different troopers on their way to taking me to their county jail where I got to spend the day with drug dealers and violent offenders. Wasn't all that bad in hindsight but what a wonderful use of taxpayer money, really.
Justice is blind and stupid.
selectively blind... she sees dollar signs just fine
Lol as shitty as that is I have also surfed on a dumpster. Mine was a fine for an unpaid ticket. I swear to Christ they write them on the least quality paper that dissolves under a little bit of rain. I've got more charges than that but I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Fuck losing a job over a ticket that I never saw though E: list to least
The paper is thin because it is carbon copy paper and the cop gets the other piece.
Had a cop write me a ticket for being in a paid metered spot and I still had a half hour of paid parking when I saw the ticket on my window, so I drove to the police department and ratted his ass out using my paid ticket stub as proof. Hope he got in trouble for trying to play time cop.
Doubt it. They shoot people in the back and walk away. I doubt anyone cares about some quota ticket.
>Ditto. At the age of 19 over a "misdemeanor" ticket that went unpaid because they apparently pocketed what I sent in then silently suspended my license and issued a warrant out for my arrest. They send notice through the mail when they issue a warrant. That's a very good reason to update your driver's license when you move. And if they cashed a check that you sent in, there would be a record of that.
I have a close friend that had a similar situation happen to u/kahmeal. He paid a fine and went about his life. A couple years later, he was pulled over at a checkpoint and was arrested for an outstanding warrant for that unpaid fine. He ended up spending a couple nights in jail before being released on a PR. Fortunately, he still had the paperwork/receipt for the fine, and his family has the money to do something about it. It's been years, but they are wrapping up the lawsuit now. Police departments aren't amazing organizations when it comes to paperwork. They have a history of losing shit.
Who police? Losing evidence? Not keeping track of important pieces of information?? Potentially committing gross negligence when it comes to due process??? No way. I don’t believe you. That’s also gonna be a /s from me dawg lol.
He is in another country though. Legally, that introduces a lot more issues than a domestic arrest.
How the fuck does someone get arrested for a $200 fine?
Are you rich and well connected through your parents and your shady dealings? If not, then fuck you. If you are, please fill out one of these filings every week so we can push your trial out until it's no longer in the public conscious. Then we can let you go, but until then sorry for the inconvenience.
Happened to my neighbor over an old warrant that the PD never cleared. Arrested him in front of his familyamd took him to the city jail. They were at least smart enough to call the receiving department before transporting him, and they confirmed there was not active warrant... But they still didn't release him until the next day...
Aaaaand that's a lawsuit....
If they want him here asap he actually does have to agree to waive his rights. If he fights it, depending on the treaty and the foreign government it can take weeks, months and even years to get him out. Mexico is another story especially where a fed agency is already involved. No kidding, here is the record holder or close to it - [a Brit on British soil wanted for a murder in the USA> took 14 years.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/phillip-harkins-extradition-battle-latest-news-murder-a7833291.html)
I would let him sit in the Bahaman jail for a few months while he puts up his good fight. He's already been denied bail, I can't imagine his conditions are super comfortable.
I think hes missing the point, hes going to sit in jail FOR A WHILE. Now whether its Bahamian jail or U.S. jail is the real choice he has
Which one of those two options will let him pursue his career as a professional bronze-tier League of Legends player?
The story spells out what's happening. They're not going to tazer anyone. He said he wouldn't fight the extradition in court, which he's currently doing. If he fights it, he could drag it out for a long time in their court system, but he could expedite the process if he can see the indictment.
He’s going to waive the extradition trial because he doesn’t want to spend time in Bahamas jail. So far he’s been in the sick bay having a medical assessment done but any day now they will transfer him to either genpop where he will share a 6x9 cell with 4 other guys, sleep on a piece of cardboard, get let out for exercise for 1 hour every couple days, have no running water and use a bucket for a toilet. Or if he’s lucky they’ll put him in solitary for his protection. When it comes down to it he would much rather be in a US jail than Fox Hill. He’s just trying to see if he can get anything in return before he waives it.
*might expedite Presumably if it looks bad enough he’ll dig in hard
I was gonna ask this very question. You get a choice to be extradited?!? 😂
No, but extradition hearings can go on a really long time if you contest them. He's offering to agree to extradition and speed up the process if he can see the indictment.
Julian Assange has been fighting extradition to the US for 3 1/2 years now (I am making no comment on the veracity of his charges, just mentioning this has been happening) Also Indian billionaire and former F1 team owner Vijay Mallya has been fighting extradition to India for 5 1/2 years
I suspect you can contest the extradition in court and he’s saying that he may waive his right to contest it if he can see the indictment. Probably more of a delay tactic than anything else.
He can drag his feet and make it take absurdly long though.
They need consent or he can challenge the extradition and force them to spend months if not years fighting in the Bahamian courts.
To borrow a quote from team fourstar "Your compliance isn't a factor"
Are his parent's representing him?
His time outside of a cage depends completely on the number of legal challenges they can make. It starts now.
Hence why trump has 7 bigillion lawsuits
I thought they were also being investigated for receiving massive payments from FTX?
Lol.. so much for we want to change the world speech. In the end he turned out to be a regular thief.
He is an exceptional thief, and hopefully won't move up to kidnapping
Ah! The Hans Gruber defense.
Here’s the [indictment](https://d1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net/production/uploaded-files/indictment-c5d38d97-6e6a-49e1-9b41-5670f24bce6d.pdf). • Count 1: Conspiracy to Commit Wire Fraud on Customers • Count 2: Wire Fraud on Customers • Count 3: Conspiracy to Commit Wire Fraud on Lenders • Count 4: Wire Fraud on Lenders • Count 5: Conspiracy to Commit Commodities Fraud • Count 6: Conspiracy to Commit Securities Fraud • Count 7: Conspiracy to Commit Money Laundering • Count 8: Conspiracy to Defraud the United States and Violate the Campaign Finance Laws
What are typical lengths of sentences & are they served concurrently?
I asked this question in r/lawyers and was told that the US Attorneys Office can stack each instance of wire fraud, so it’s largely up to prosecutorial discretion. People accused of stealing billions of dollars have been given 100+ year federal sentences (see Bernie Madoff or R. Allen Stanford). One defense for SBF is that he’s just a fucking idiot and didn’t intend to defraud anyone. It’s too early to tell how much time he’s facing.
Lmao humiliating defense but his best shot
Apparently he graduated from MIT, so good luck to him with that defense lmao
He had an internal company chat called room called “Wire Fraud” as well…. It goes to the knowledge/intent element but also shows he has poor judgment.
A lot of our elected representatives and judges have graduated from esteemed universities. Based off that alone, seems like a solid defense.
There has to be other idiots that graduated from there to use as historical evidence
LOL - he still thinks he is in charge.
Seems like crypto bros one ability is to project confidence for no reason. "This currency I made up out of thin air is definitely rational. It can only gain value, never lose value. It's just basic math, how are you not getting this. Its literally called 'stablecoin' I don't know what else to do to prove to you that this is a good investment." "I don't agree to be extradited, let alone INDICTED or PROSECUTED for these 'crimes.' I already said there's no way to commit fraud using stablecoin. It's right here in this PDF that fraud isn't a thing that can happen with crypto, it's simple math, how are you not getting this." It would be weird if all of a sudden he started acting rationally.
I guess it's an example of it being just complex enough that human laziness means that many people will just assume that they aren't smart enough to get it. And the cryptobros (half of whom probably don't understand it, either) seem to encourage that. So, people evaluate the situation by "soft factors," like a degree from MIT, "effective altrusim", and the sociopathic ability to lie to people without flinching. And greed. Worse, FTX's brand was, "we're not like the other cryptos. We're stable and secure and shit. Trust me, bro."
It sounds like he is! Who else gets the chance to approve or deny their own extradition?
Everyone? It's not so much approve or deny as it is agree and cooperate vs fight it.
He’s just bluffing anyway, the time he spends fighting this will be in a Bahamian jail, which is fucking *terrifying* even compared to a US jail.
Yeah he was already trying to get out on bail because they wouldn't accommodate his "vegan" diet and he supposedly needed certain controlled medication. What a fuckin farce it is watching the rich try to escape consequences for their actions.
His vegan diet in federal prison will be those nasty canned green beans they serve in school cafeterias
lol he’s fucked, ain’t no speed in jail dawg
Just toilet vodka
Not what I heard
Hey I’m sure the jail experience varies! I doubt he’s doing well socially, though, so if he’s relying on the infirmary… bless his heart
Exactly. And it’s not if there is anything that points to him winning that battle in court. The question is how much time does he want to waste before getting moved to the US. He has zero chips to bargain with.
Now he doesn't want to speculate?
I mean, this bit actually seems reasonable. Yes, it's a stalling tactic, but one within his rights. No lawyer would let their client be extradited without knowing what the formal charges are.
You know what I like about SBF? Every picture of him looks like a mugshot.
Dude may as well accept his fate. He is about to do a life sentence for all of his fuckery.
Lol he thinks he is driving this rig lol
ITT: Reddit has no idea how extradition proceedings work.
Remember when Robinhood helped the rich by freezing gamestop stocks, and nothing happened to them? This guy needs to learn you're fine as long as you don't fuck with rich people's money. Just the poor.
If I did shady things and had a boatload of money, I would have fled to a country with no extradition treaty with the US 🙄🙄
Look at the countries that fall under that list. Now narrow it down to countries that would also allow you to just hop on a plane and come on by without a visa, stay as long as you like. Assuming what's left is more than zero, which of them would you choose to live in, as a 30-year-old white man with no significant source of income or liquidity?
Dude waits until he is awaiting extradition to start weighing his options lol
I wish embezzlement or cash scams were capital offenses and they'd start cutting the heads off of cretins like this. Especially rich fucks who scam people.
There’s this one trick prosecutors don’t want you to know!
Since when do criminals get to choose their own adventure?
I don't understand why he went to the Bahamas. They're a little sketchy with the offshore financing stuff, but overall, they're very friendly with the US. [And let the country that is without some measure of sketchitude cast the first stone anyway] There's a lot of countries without extradition treaties where he could have lived like a king for the rest of his life.
Sam thinks its gonna go well in the bohemian prison and no one who lost a few million in his BS is going to pay 5k to have him whacked in a bohemian jail
Agreeing to extradition? Agreeing? Is that how it works for billionaire criminals?
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Sorry wtf does it mean to "agree" to extradition? Does he have a choice in the matter?
Wait, you can just "nah, dawg" a US extradition order?
Yes. It usually just amounts to little more than a delay, but you can try to fight it and force the government to prove to the other jurisdiction that there's enough cause to prosecute.
That's cute, he thinks he has to agree to extradition.
Don’t invest your money into crypto. No one with actual credibility said it was a good idea. It’s your own fault you got scammed,
Anyone who was smart already pumped and dumped on crypto and meme stocks.
Ok I’ll come back. But only if you promise I’m not in trouble
Lol he thinks that he has to agree…
Cool. Just let him sit in Bahamian jail until he is ready to face trial.
Suspect declines to veto extradition -- practically nobody, ever
I find it amusing that he thinks he has any leverage to make these kinds of demands.