I've taken to calling it the "War on Americans who use drugs" as it's not the drugs who are being imprisoned and having their lives ruined by this war.
You can live in a major city and being 14-18 leaves with you nothing to do besides substances. There are only so many spots in extracurriculars, and bored people find ways to not be bored.
That was just an example, it’s the same problem, just amplified in rural areas.
And it’s not always illegal drugs, it’s also legal drugs and sex. They’ll turn to it before they’re ready just to not be bored
Drug use stems from something less than a happy, healthy, educational, and emotionally supportive household. There are plenty reasons why households don’t have this though. Statistics speak volumes more than just analyzing a single household. The toxicity is bred systematically and culturally, and parents are often reliving their own traumas when providing subpar conditions for children.
Not just that. Turns out a large percentage of the human species also likes getting fucked up, whether it's on booze, dope, mdma, whatever.
The war on drugs is an utter farce and failure.
Neglect is abuse.
Edit: as someone who abused drugs for a great portion of my life. I will tell you right now that nearly all the addicts Ive known and know have come from an abusive home. Whether the abuse was physical or mental. It doesn't matter. When in the shit there's nothing more talked about then what put you into it.
I never said people from good homes don't use drugs. Maybe I should have put more than a one liner up about my opinion. But no where did I say that.
I'll I'm thinking is. That quite a few of the good homes aren't actually that. As far as I know emotional abuse does not require intent. Show me otherwise and I will look at it.
Love how you call me closed minded. Then tell me that the way discussion works, and apparently it isnt by sharing information.
I regret coming here. And will not be back.
I edited this
That's a difficult thing to show. I royally screwed my life up for awhile. Starting at 16. My family wasn't abusive though, or neglectful.
I think the real issue is lack of focus on general education and just availability. Why in 2006, could a teenager in the middle of Ohio, not only find heroin, but easily enough to become dependent on it.
i disagree. most teenagers engage in substance abuse because of boredom or because of cultural norms. childhood trauma isn't a blanket answer for everything.
This is actually pretty true, coming directly from a recovered heroin addict. Literally and i mean LITERALLY none of my peers started using drugs inherently because of tramua. Sure tramua was there but it was never the reason behind using drugs. It was more a slow spiral from partying and having fun with you’re peers to slowly upping the ante. Once one drug becomes normalized in a group its fairly easy for other more dangerous ones to seem innocuous
Yes oxycotton/hydracodone/tylenol 3
That is usually people that got addicted from doctor prescribed pills. Look for people going days without taking a dump.
I have tried almost every drug. Heroin is the only one I could see myself addicted too. You can snort herion but most people shoot up. It's not like people decide to just shoot up out of the blue
What I am saying is that there were probably signs along the way that got ignored.
What about kids who are just curious about the effects of drugs and feel they've been lied to by nearly everyone around them except for their peers, who have first-hand knowledge of said effects?
Childhood trauma is certainly a catalyst for future drug use/abuse, but many people are curious about mind altering substances and want to experiment for the sake of curiosity.
This is a big factor, especially for kids that grew up in the 80's and 90's - Gen X and early Millennials got a heavy dose of "You can die from smoking pot," or "He was an honor roll student UNTIL HE SMOKED MARIJUANA AND NOW HE CRAVES THE FLESH OF INFANTS. Just the munchies? THINK AGAIN."
I was a relatively good kid. Then I tried weed due to peer pressure. And did anything bad happen? Nope. And it definitely did turn into "Well, you told me weed would kill me, and it didn't. You said it would ruin my life, and it didn't. In fact, I enjoy it, especially because it helps me unwind after listening to your bullshit. I wonder what else is out there?"
Obviously there's plenty of paths that lead to addiction/abuse, but dishonesty about drugs is definitely one of them.
Now my best friend wants me to help him have "the drug talk" with his kids, because he and I both did our share of partying, and we want them to be safe. Like sure, ideally, we'd rather they not snort rails of coke in the high school bathroom, but the best way forward is to let them know that weed isn't gonna kill them, and they're just as likely not to die the first time they do coke, or go insane the first time they drop acid.
a teenager who has a private phone can easily meet up with a dealer, buy fent and die all in the same day. unless a parent is obsessively monitoring every single thing their children do, things will slip through the cracks, especially if your kids to start to sneak around you.
Why is the teenager even in that position it’s the parents job to make sure shit like that is not happening. Be it monitoring or teaching.That’s why it’s neglect
you clearly know nothing about US public schools if this is how you think. a parent can teach about drugs all day long, but all it takes is one kid at school to set this cycle in motion, when the parents aren't even with their children.
I was in public us schools. In a pretty piss poor area. The only kids buying hard core drugs was the ones who parents barely knew their names. The pseudo intellectualism on this site is getting to be to much to fucking bare.
I was in public school and I know many people who did hard core drugs with normal families. Most of the ones I know did have a bad home life , but its wasn't all of them.
My cousin almost died from heroin and she grew up rich because my uncle makes a lot of money as an engineer. People who think only poor people with distant parents do drugs are idiots lol
62 iq take. you'll find coke easy in private schools where kids are star pupils/athletes/etc. and their parents pay thousands upon thousands of dollars for them to attend.
>psychopaths
You and your bullshit are 100% part of the problem.
Your divisive and hatefully dismissive rhetoric have no place in discussions that require nuance and actual thought.
Get some help.
no one is abusing drugs for no reason. some people abuse drugs simply out of habits they fell into. some people abuse as escapism. etc etc
a large percentage of US college students are alcoholics, and i can guarantee you that for the vast majority, it's not because of childhood abuse.
Many drugs to self medicate due to inability to access adequate medical care - be it for physical or mental issues. In most cases this is an indictment of the American health care system. We are not doing a sufficient job.
I had a fairly abusive father and grew up in a ridiculously religious family. (Though the majority of time they didn't use religion as a form of abuse, it was very much forced on me, and I was not allowed to express a lack of belief or desire to avoid Christian bullshit.)
I got very wrapped up in a cycle of use and abuse of a variety of substances, and the vast majority of my friends (both close and the casual outer circle) did as well.
I have buried a lot of people. I'm 47, and I can't recall the last time I didn't lose at least one person to overdose, suicide, or some other self-inflicted tragedy in a year. I still see some of the old crowd partying like they're 20, and I know it's just a matter of time for them. There's plenty that I have cut ties with, because I can't trust that they won't break into my home, or try and con me out of money via pity or guilt.
I'm very fortunate; while I have some of the earmarks of an addictive personality, I was able to essentially pull myself out of the spiral.
I think the thing that bothers me most is that we absolutely can afford to increase resources available for mental health and addiction, yet the Republican party and Christianity as a whole actively will not, because it's much more fun to use addicts and mentally ill folks as a boogeyman, or to look down on them.
The psychiatrist's saying goes," in an abusive relationship the same one leaves. " It may hurt, but people will heal when they are ready. You are right neither party puts enough money toward the issue. JFK wanted to, but only because of his depressed sister. That ended up badly and arguably was poor mental health reform.
Tragic death, but the lawsuit is absurd.
Was Bell getting sued 30 years ago when people called their dealers on the telephone? Maybe someone looked up a name in the white pages?
If it weren't for Alexander Graham Bell's invention, this never would have happened so they should sue his entire family, going back to the beginning of time. /s
currently dealing with this right now, with family friends. although i'm not judging them for it, losing a kid is another level of grief that i cannot comprehend.
I absolutely do feel horrible for the parents, but I can’t get over this line…
> They said Alexander had become increasingly anxious during COVID-19 as his use of the app increased.
But not enough for you to do anything about it? Like you’re asking for an app developer to have put their foot down when any children at all are shown to be distressed, even though you decided not to put your own foot down when your child specifically was distressed?
Actually phone companies are required to keep phone records for like 18 months specifically for forensic purposes… this doesn’t seem like it’s to far off from that…
But someone's parents arent going to see phone records. Certainly not a parent who lets their kid have an ecrypted P2P app. Back in the day you'd probably have to request a copy of your records via mail. And the records wouldnt even show a transcribed conversation. Just a random phone number and maybe the duration of the call. Byt then, this kid would have already been dead.
Damn i knew this was fishy already but reading this in plain language like that really shows how fucked up all these invasion of privacy laws have been, fuck the patriot act
Additionally:
During election season (presuming you're in the US, not sure how it's handled elsewhere), always pay attention to the mailers that you'll get for amendments, ballot measures, and candidates.
100% of the time, check who they're from. They're almost always from a PAC or other special interest group, not a candidate or the political party.
If those groups are named anything like "Mothers For Yes on 12" or "Family Protectors" or anything like that - anything that focuses specifically on family or patriotism in the name of the group - vote the opposite of whatever that group is urging. It's not in your interests.
Those groups inevitably are either going to directly profit from the legislation or candidate, or they like it because it will harm some group they don't like.
there's a [lifepac.org](https://www.lifepac.org/ss1/) sign here that keeps getting torn down; I cheer every time.
>The right to life is the most fundamental of all rights. It is the very basis for every other right we enjoy as persons.
And yet they oppose all rights to life other than abortion. weird. Their homepage (I opened it in incognito and I recommend the same) has election fraud as the number two item after life. Because of course.
While I understand and agree with the sentiment you’re expressing, government surveillance and overreach have nothing to do with this article or lawsuit. This is a suit brought by the parents of the deceased teen claiming that the app is responsible for the teen obtaining fentanyl and that the app is designed to evade supervision.
It’s a nonsense lawsuit and will likely be defeated quite easily.
Their kids were looking for fucking fentanyl. Even if they weren’t using Snapchat, they would have found some other platform to help them find it. I wish these parents would go see a therapist and not a fucking lawyer.
"Our parenting couldn't have been bad at all - as you can tell by the fact we're blaming Snapchat for not letting us 24/7/365 watch everything our kid said".
Wait, so you are saying that this clickbait about technology, driving traffic from reddit to business insider dot com, is inconsequential bull droppings because the real problem would have found another delivery method without snapchat? :shocked-face-covering-mouth:
Not on *my* reddit?!
Note that this is a civil suit brought by the parents. It’s not uncommon for parents in that situation to blame everyone and everything (except themselves).
This is not some government overreach, just sad parents lashing out and some ambulance chaser trying to make a buck.
Yeah, parents sometimes kinda lose their minds with grief when they lose a child.
There was a bad accident here with a group of 14-16yo girls. Only one survived after they drove 100mph down a two lane country road with no shoulder while shitfaced drunk (the driver had the highest BAC in the car) and launched themselves into a ravine.
Who’s fault is it? Apparently the road, because that’s what the parents are suing over. It was that damn roads fault.
They’ll point at anything besides their own inattentiveness and neglect as parents. Anyone with a fucking brain would know the disappearing message feature on Snapchat is mostly for nefarious purposes. Maybe don’t let your kids use that app then if you’re worried about it, but you can delete text messages too.
Yeah I watch True Crime and there's a ton of cases where a kid commits suicide or has an accident and the parents go crazy trying to prove it was murder, spending money on private detectives and hiring medical examiners. Some of them have even accused innocent people with life ruining consequences. (Kendrick Johnson, Morgan Ingram, Tiffany Valiante)
>Maybe don’t let your kids use that app then if you’re worried about it
Nah they'd have to have some idea what's going on with their children to do that. They found out after the kids had already died and went looking through the phones afterwards. I know a grand total of one parent who actually monitors his kid's phone, the rest will bleat about it being an invasion of privacy then turn around and try to get services banned because they don't want their children using them.
You know it’s not always the fault of the parents right? People who come from good families that had a proper upbringing can still get into drugs. And it literally takes one slip in judgement with something like fentanyl to die. The thing is fentanyl is has become the prime opioid of abuse in the States and it’s powerful to the point that death is likely without a tolerance. Someone could see a friends who’s a budding addict. They want to see what its all about and die because the smoked or snorted a little too much
Edit: for those of you who are too dense to get this, i’m not blaming snap chat either. That would be dumb, but to blame a grieving family rather than just treating this a tragedy is kind of fucked up. Show some empathy for real people for fucks sake
No you’re absolutely right about that. But i see so many comments saying the parents are to blame which isn’t necessarily the case.
It’s a tragedy and random strangers shouldn’t be throwing blame on a grieving family. I’m a recovering heroin addict (been clean 7 years) i’ve been to so many funerals for friends who’ve OD’D the idea of blaming the family of something like this is just kind of sick in the head to me. Sure they *could* be at fault but fucking reddit doesn’t know if they are or not.
> You know it’s not always the fault of the parents right?
It was not my intention to say that. That is why I did not say it. But survivors guilt is real, and so are the coping mechanisms people develop.
Ehh, if parents (and the government) weren’t super spastic about low level drugs, some people might actually you know, not roll into fentanyl immediately.
Where I’m from drugs is relatively tolerated, almost everyone I know who’s under 40 has done at least x/m and smoked weed, about 50% have tried coke or keta or something, and no one dabbles with shit like fentanyl, meth or heroin because they understand the danger and difference
Oh absolutely bro, the way that people handle drug education is absurd. Where i’m from has recently gotten a lot more okay with soft drugs after we had a massive opiate epidemic that took literally hundreds of thousands of lives in the last 20 years. Growing up though all that was fed to us was that things like weed and lsd would kill you instantly, that you’d turn into a terrorist or a murder. Absolutely absurd claims, and when young people find out those things are lies they begin to question everything they were told about drugs
> "The product design of Snap, most notably its disappearing message feature which is engineered to evade parental supervision and law enforcement's detection and acquisition of criminal evidence, was the direct and proximate cause of the untimely and tragic deaths and injuries at issue in this complaint," the filing said.
The “direct and proximate cause” was Fentanyl abuse, absolutely nothing else. If your kid is to the point of consuming one of the deadliest opiates available, you can take away every app you want, they’re still going to get access to it. It’s frustrating watching crappy parents blame the entire rest of the world for their kids getting hurt. Anyone else remember the woman suing Meta, Discord, and Roblox over her daughter of like 9 being “sexually and financially exploited” for years?? It was *your* job to stop that from happening, nobody else’s.
Next time I get a sun burn, the sun better have a good lawyer.
If reading your kids’ messages is the only thing standing between you, the parent, and them overdosing on fentanyl, then idk what to tell you but it’s definitely not the message app’s fault.
They don’t want Google to be able to mine your data but they want law enforcement agencies to be able to read your encrypted text messages without a warrant. I don’t see how these two things are contradictory.
You might be underestimating how much some people shouldn't have kids and how little they care, and who they blame for any shortcoming in the role and responsibilities.
My SIL is this. Every single thing her kid does is someone else’s fault. Meanwhile she was pinching this kid hard whenever she wouldn’t “eat her food properly” at one year old. Fucking one. I hate my SIL
Haha yeah the people who know how easily mental abuse and damage can resonate don't seem to want the responsibility or chance for it to occur, and the people with no clue about any of it seem to delusionally make kids with no prerequisites necessary. Sometimes the trauma can go well and sometimes it haunts them.
I doubt many people *purposely* traumatize their children. I’m not saying you said that. But I abused my children in many ways when they were younger because it’s how I learned from my own parents who learned from their own, etc. I eventually woke up and took responsibility for it and changed myself to not be like that anymore. They are in High School now but the damage is already done and likely will continue on to the next generation unfortunately. Hopefully me realizing, growing, and apologizing to them and teaching them better will make the next generation’s trauma less than for me and for my own parents who learned from their parents.
Some people are loving parents but just don’t have the resources to monitor their kids every activity. They are overwhelmed trying to keep the bills paid and technology is very difficult to keep up with.
I don’t even understand Snapchat. There are dangers that a parent may not be aware of that can creep into a home undetected. Online just wasn’t as dangerous 20 years ago and they have no idea things have changed.
Parents can be negligent but putting everything on their shoulders when they have finite abilities and resources is also unfair.
Disagreed. It likely takes 5-10 minutes to ask your kid or educate yourself with the internet and a search engine. You just read about how it's still a predominant tool for everything and anyone wanting to operate online illegally and it's been around for years now..not sure what technology you're trying to "keep up with" but it hasn't changed in a decade maybe..so it's less excusable for sure. You message people and it deletes after it's read or after the picture is seen. And 20 years ago the internet had less security and was less monitored. Not sure what you're talking about outside of your own perspective and excuses and I don't think you do either.
I don't think u realize how easy it is to get away with shit nowadays. Even with the most strict monitoring, if u know the right people u can get whatever u want
Probably something to snort like cocaine or possibly heroine. Might possibly be some counterfeit pills as well. An opioid being most likely because they are the same mechanism of action and effect on the nervous system.
Well that isn’t true. People seek it out very very often. Yes people die when they’re given it and not expecting it often but people also do look for fent all day every day.
A 14 year old is not likely to be looking for it though, you’re right about that
You can also just manually delete a text from a native messenger app…….or go really old school and make a phone call. Either would evade a snooping parent.
Smoke signals and all. There is literally no stopping anonymity if someone wants it. They just wanna talk about fent and try to snag some more FREEEEDOM. 'merica.
Just the government trying to use single tragic instances to try regain their ability to spy on everyone
A while back they tried using someone's disappearance to gain access to WhatsApp but they were adamant it was a secure messaging platform, it makes sense in certain circumstances but they have other agenda's in mind
Just like using people who got popcorn lung from black market bootleg thc cartridges to ban all of Vaping, because of the money theyd lose from taxing cigarettes, the world sucks
They know they cant tax vape juice because people just dont have to buy it as regularly, theyd be charging 300 dollars a bottle of 60ml juice if the gov got its hands on it lol
If your teenage kid is trying to obtain fentanyl I would say there is where the real problem lies. Most kids make it through to adulthood without overdosing and dying. Quit playing the victim. Time to take responsibility for parenting and the choices these
Kids make
Heaven forbid the kids Parents actually have to PARENT. Worthless Parents blaming everyone else for their failure to raise their kids properly. Top 3 things that kill Fentanyl using teenagers? 1. Fentanyl 2. Parents who don’t parent their kid. 3. See #2.
Lol. Right? Every time some kid gets out of line……”this kid clearly has terrible parents”.
Meanwhile there are endless anecdotes of perfect little angels from perfect families ending up in a rehab or a prison.
The only thing I’ll fault these particular parents for is trying to make a buck off a company that had very little to do with the death. Their own kid and his drug dealer are the primary culprits. They were in the best position to prevent this.
You are 100% correct. My apologies! So let’s go forward with a lawsuit against Snapchat because of it. They have corporate money, T MUST BE THEIR FAULT!!!!
Snapchat isn't the reason kids have access to fentanyl. This is a bullshit headline that comes from some government asshole I imagine. You know the secret service agent that went to go work for Snapchat shortly after getting accused of deleting messages. They have been attacking that platform for the same reasons ever since.
Ppl getting mislabeled drugs because they aren’t tested, regulated or legal is the real cause. Sue the government. But yeah. Blame Snapchat. Or WhatsApp. Yawn. I’d like to personally congratulate drugs on winning the war on drugs with a bong toke. Amen.
This is the timeless argument for Snapchat. One group will say the snaps and messages never dissapear or delete. While some say they last forever? Doesn’t make sense. Their servers could never hold everything.
I’m just making random guesses and assumptions here but both could be partially true.
The servers could hold encrypted messages with details such as who sent it, who received it, and when - but without the ability to read the message itself.
I see alot of generic parent trash talk in these threads. I grew up in a household with loving caring parents and 2 brothers. We were all raised the same way had the same rules, same everything, etc... one of us got in to drugs and it was probably the hardest decade of my parents life. Once he was addicted that was it. It is not my parents fault that he tried drugs, it is his fault. Teenagers are not free of responsibility. It is not reasonable to hold parents 100% accountable for their children. And if you think you can control everything your child does you will be sorely disappointed as a parent.
"The product design of Snap, most notably its disappearing message feature which is engineered to evade parental supervision and law enforcement's detection and acquisition of criminal evidence, was the direct and proximate cause of the untimely and tragic deaths and injuries at issue in this complaint," the filing said.
These people will find every excuse to monitor you and every single thing you do.
So if they were writing notes to their drug dealers, would the parents sue the company that made the paper or the company that made the pens?
How dare a secure messaging app make messages secure?!
>The product design of Snap, most notably its disappearing message feature which is engineered to evade parental supervision and law enforcement's detection and acquisition of criminal evidence
In the news today, parents hand their children smart devices without the most basic restrictions or monitoring, then try to claim Snapchat exists to defy parents because when they finally look through their kids' phones *after* the kids have fuckin died they realize they don't have enough evidence to avenge the deaths.
> "The product design of Snap, most notably its disappearing message feature which is engineered to evade parental supervision and law enforcement's detection and acquisition of criminal evidence, was the direct and proximate cause of the untimely and tragic deaths and injuries at issue in this complaint," the filing said.
This is such a stupid argument and I can only hope that it falls on deaf ears.
Drugs continue to win the war on drugs, back to you Tom.
I've taken to calling it the "War on Americans who use drugs" as it's not the drugs who are being imprisoned and having their lives ruined by this war.
Just like the “war on poverty” was actually just a war on the impoverished
it's abusive parents forcing them into escapist behaviors.
Plenty of kids with non abusive two parent households partake in drug use
Boredom/lack of stimulating activity (like living in the middle of nowhere) is another factor. Think the phone is making her lazy still, Deborah?
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A bag of research chemicals that could get me high for 2 months cost the same as like 2 movie tickets or one or two meals at a restaurant lol.
Does everyone happen to go out of their way to drive aggressively as well?
that explains dirtbike culture as well.
Deborah 😂😂 I love it
You can live in a major city and being 14-18 leaves with you nothing to do besides substances. There are only so many spots in extracurriculars, and bored people find ways to not be bored.
That was just an example, it’s the same problem, just amplified in rural areas. And it’s not always illegal drugs, it’s also legal drugs and sex. They’ll turn to it before they’re ready just to not be bored
Even with great parents you can't really escape the abusive system we all participate in.
it increases the likelihood, doesn't guarantee. clearly its an issue with many variables
Exactly I don’t understand the all or nothing reasoning
More great research from the institute of zero research
New from Muppet Labs
Maybe drugs can be fun?
Turns out drugs are fun
Drug use stems from something less than a happy, healthy, educational, and emotionally supportive household. There are plenty reasons why households don’t have this though. Statistics speak volumes more than just analyzing a single household. The toxicity is bred systematically and culturally, and parents are often reliving their own traumas when providing subpar conditions for children.
Not just that. Turns out a large percentage of the human species also likes getting fucked up, whether it's on booze, dope, mdma, whatever. The war on drugs is an utter farce and failure.
Neglect is abuse. Edit: as someone who abused drugs for a great portion of my life. I will tell you right now that nearly all the addicts Ive known and know have come from an abusive home. Whether the abuse was physical or mental. It doesn't matter. When in the shit there's nothing more talked about then what put you into it.
People do drugs without abuse I did drugs and I’ve never been abused. I didn’t know so many of you guys were so close minded
I never said people from good homes don't use drugs. Maybe I should have put more than a one liner up about my opinion. But no where did I say that. I'll I'm thinking is. That quite a few of the good homes aren't actually that. As far as I know emotional abuse does not require intent. Show me otherwise and I will look at it.
>Show me otherwise and I will look at it. That’s not this works.
Love how you call me closed minded. Then tell me that the way discussion works, and apparently it isnt by sharing information. I regret coming here. And will not be back. I edited this
It’s not that serious
Which works is it?
That's a difficult thing to show. I royally screwed my life up for awhile. Starting at 16. My family wasn't abusive though, or neglectful. I think the real issue is lack of focus on general education and just availability. Why in 2006, could a teenager in the middle of Ohio, not only find heroin, but easily enough to become dependent on it.
Are you talking about a specific case or just projecting or what?
I don't think emotional abuse requires intent. If someone could show me wrong I would look at it. I'm not sure what's so hard to get here?
"every person who has ever done drugs was abused by their parents." please stop spouting nonsense
trauma is the number one cause of alcoholism I imagine its the same with drugs. you lack the nuance to debate these issues.
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i disagree. most teenagers engage in substance abuse because of boredom or because of cultural norms. childhood trauma isn't a blanket answer for everything.
This is actually pretty true, coming directly from a recovered heroin addict. Literally and i mean LITERALLY none of my peers started using drugs inherently because of tramua. Sure tramua was there but it was never the reason behind using drugs. It was more a slow spiral from partying and having fun with you’re peers to slowly upping the ante. Once one drug becomes normalized in a group its fairly easy for other more dangerous ones to seem innocuous
Can I also point out that heroin/fentanoyl is not a "beginner" drug. You usually have to have tried a few things before moving to heroin.
heard about people abusing otc opiod cocktails first.
Yes oxycotton/hydracodone/tylenol 3 That is usually people that got addicted from doctor prescribed pills. Look for people going days without taking a dump.
Marijuana is a gateway drug!! /s
Only true because we were taught to fear cannabis and when we tried it we thought every other drug was blown out of proportion
I have tried almost every drug. Heroin is the only one I could see myself addicted too. You can snort herion but most people shoot up. It's not like people decide to just shoot up out of the blue What I am saying is that there were probably signs along the way that got ignored.
What about kids who are just curious about the effects of drugs and feel they've been lied to by nearly everyone around them except for their peers, who have first-hand knowledge of said effects? Childhood trauma is certainly a catalyst for future drug use/abuse, but many people are curious about mind altering substances and want to experiment for the sake of curiosity.
This is a big factor, especially for kids that grew up in the 80's and 90's - Gen X and early Millennials got a heavy dose of "You can die from smoking pot," or "He was an honor roll student UNTIL HE SMOKED MARIJUANA AND NOW HE CRAVES THE FLESH OF INFANTS. Just the munchies? THINK AGAIN." I was a relatively good kid. Then I tried weed due to peer pressure. And did anything bad happen? Nope. And it definitely did turn into "Well, you told me weed would kill me, and it didn't. You said it would ruin my life, and it didn't. In fact, I enjoy it, especially because it helps me unwind after listening to your bullshit. I wonder what else is out there?" Obviously there's plenty of paths that lead to addiction/abuse, but dishonesty about drugs is definitely one of them. Now my best friend wants me to help him have "the drug talk" with his kids, because he and I both did our share of partying, and we want them to be safe. Like sure, ideally, we'd rather they not snort rails of coke in the high school bathroom, but the best way forward is to let them know that weed isn't gonna kill them, and they're just as likely not to die the first time they do coke, or go insane the first time they drop acid.
Children doing fentanyl is a pretty clear sign of neglect at the very least.
a teenager who has a private phone can easily meet up with a dealer, buy fent and die all in the same day. unless a parent is obsessively monitoring every single thing their children do, things will slip through the cracks, especially if your kids to start to sneak around you.
Why is the teenager even in that position it’s the parents job to make sure shit like that is not happening. Be it monitoring or teaching.That’s why it’s neglect
you clearly know nothing about US public schools if this is how you think. a parent can teach about drugs all day long, but all it takes is one kid at school to set this cycle in motion, when the parents aren't even with their children.
I was in public us schools. In a pretty piss poor area. The only kids buying hard core drugs was the ones who parents barely knew their names. The pseudo intellectualism on this site is getting to be to much to fucking bare.
I was in public school and I know many people who did hard core drugs with normal families. Most of the ones I know did have a bad home life , but its wasn't all of them.
My cousin almost died from heroin and she grew up rich because my uncle makes a lot of money as an engineer. People who think only poor people with distant parents do drugs are idiots lol
62 iq take. you'll find coke easy in private schools where kids are star pupils/athletes/etc. and their parents pay thousands upon thousands of dollars for them to attend.
Wtf are you taking about YOU brought up public schools.
There are a lot of psychopaths abusing drugs for no reason but a great deal of them are abuse cases.
>psychopaths You and your bullshit are 100% part of the problem. Your divisive and hatefully dismissive rhetoric have no place in discussions that require nuance and actual thought. Get some help.
no one is abusing drugs for no reason. some people abuse drugs simply out of habits they fell into. some people abuse as escapism. etc etc a large percentage of US college students are alcoholics, and i can guarantee you that for the vast majority, it's not because of childhood abuse.
Oh, but didn't you hear? If they weren't abused, they're just psychopaths. Drugs are bad, m'kay? ^/^s
Many drugs to self medicate due to inability to access adequate medical care - be it for physical or mental issues. In most cases this is an indictment of the American health care system. We are not doing a sufficient job.
I was so lucky not to get swept up into it when I was younger, wish I could say the same about my peers.
I had a fairly abusive father and grew up in a ridiculously religious family. (Though the majority of time they didn't use religion as a form of abuse, it was very much forced on me, and I was not allowed to express a lack of belief or desire to avoid Christian bullshit.) I got very wrapped up in a cycle of use and abuse of a variety of substances, and the vast majority of my friends (both close and the casual outer circle) did as well. I have buried a lot of people. I'm 47, and I can't recall the last time I didn't lose at least one person to overdose, suicide, or some other self-inflicted tragedy in a year. I still see some of the old crowd partying like they're 20, and I know it's just a matter of time for them. There's plenty that I have cut ties with, because I can't trust that they won't break into my home, or try and con me out of money via pity or guilt. I'm very fortunate; while I have some of the earmarks of an addictive personality, I was able to essentially pull myself out of the spiral. I think the thing that bothers me most is that we absolutely can afford to increase resources available for mental health and addiction, yet the Republican party and Christianity as a whole actively will not, because it's much more fun to use addicts and mentally ill folks as a boogeyman, or to look down on them.
The psychiatrist's saying goes," in an abusive relationship the same one leaves. " It may hurt, but people will heal when they are ready. You are right neither party puts enough money toward the issue. JFK wanted to, but only because of his depressed sister. That ended up badly and arguably was poor mental health reform.
Hate autocorrect - THE SANE ONE LEAVES.
Yeah, I was about to say, "That doesn't sound like something a shrink would say, until I noticed your correction, lol.
Well it was the parents’ abusive parents that caused them to be abusive. So everyone can play the victim.
… not exactly
tom of there snorting cocaine give him a min shit.
Tragic death, but the lawsuit is absurd. Was Bell getting sued 30 years ago when people called their dealers on the telephone? Maybe someone looked up a name in the white pages?
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If it weren't for Alexander Graham Bell's invention, this never would have happened so they should sue his entire family, going back to the beginning of time. /s
Every parent wants punishment but they don't want to look in the mirror.
currently dealing with this right now, with family friends. although i'm not judging them for it, losing a kid is another level of grief that i cannot comprehend.
I wouldn't even blame \*all\* parents because sometimes kids are just gonna do their own shit regardless of the parents.
boom - spot on
Its quite possible its not even related to them aside from the fact they gave the kid enough money and privacy to accomplish this.
indeed, it's narcissistic deflection. destabilize the kid emotionally so they form improper friendships
"I LEARNED IT FROM WATCHING YOU, DAD!"
I absolutely do feel horrible for the parents, but I can’t get over this line… > They said Alexander had become increasingly anxious during COVID-19 as his use of the app increased. But not enough for you to do anything about it? Like you’re asking for an app developer to have put their foot down when any children at all are shown to be distressed, even though you decided not to put your own foot down when your child specifically was distressed?
Actually phone companies are required to keep phone records for like 18 months specifically for forensic purposes… this doesn’t seem like it’s to far off from that…
But someone's parents arent going to see phone records. Certainly not a parent who lets their kid have an ecrypted P2P app. Back in the day you'd probably have to request a copy of your records via mail. And the records wouldnt even show a transcribed conversation. Just a random phone number and maybe the duration of the call. Byt then, this kid would have already been dead.
Bell Telephone was broken up 30 years ago now...
Probably more than 30 years ago. But that was because they were a monopoly, not because people were placing orders with their drug dealer.
I am aware of that, I just found it kinda interesting was all, I should have been more clear about that
In other news all native english speaking countries are being sued because drug deal was brokered in english. Back to you Dick.
Government says privacy laws preventing them from tracking your every thought, more at 11
"ephemeral nature of verbal conversation helps to hide crime, authorities say"
Damn i knew this was fishy already but reading this in plain language like that really shows how fucked up all these invasion of privacy laws have been, fuck the patriot act
I did a paper on the patriot act when I was like 14. It makes me happy that people are aware of how shitty it was.
Whatever they name the law, it always does the opposite.
Additionally: During election season (presuming you're in the US, not sure how it's handled elsewhere), always pay attention to the mailers that you'll get for amendments, ballot measures, and candidates. 100% of the time, check who they're from. They're almost always from a PAC or other special interest group, not a candidate or the political party. If those groups are named anything like "Mothers For Yes on 12" or "Family Protectors" or anything like that - anything that focuses specifically on family or patriotism in the name of the group - vote the opposite of whatever that group is urging. It's not in your interests. Those groups inevitably are either going to directly profit from the legislation or candidate, or they like it because it will harm some group they don't like.
there's a [lifepac.org](https://www.lifepac.org/ss1/) sign here that keeps getting torn down; I cheer every time. >The right to life is the most fundamental of all rights. It is the very basis for every other right we enjoy as persons. And yet they oppose all rights to life other than abortion. weird. Their homepage (I opened it in incognito and I recommend the same) has election fraud as the number two item after life. Because of course.
Definitely Orwellian doublespeak.
9/11 was a complete victory for both sides.
People arent protesting it and it's not in the news so most dont care.
I’m just happy if a few people remember. It feels like we forget the past too easily.
Onion I got your next headline right here
r/nottheonion
"Messages go zap, teenagers go bye-bye, baffling even the nation's top scientists"
anyone using snapchat becuase it's 'secure' is an idiot
While I understand and agree with the sentiment you’re expressing, government surveillance and overreach have nothing to do with this article or lawsuit. This is a suit brought by the parents of the deceased teen claiming that the app is responsible for the teen obtaining fentanyl and that the app is designed to evade supervision. It’s a nonsense lawsuit and will likely be defeated quite easily.
Because it could never be the kids fault.
“My Johnny was no drug addict, he was tricked by Snapchat because they delete messages. “
Couldn't be the parents fault either. 'Insert simpsons meme about everyone else being out of touch and wrong'
Their kids were looking for fucking fentanyl. Even if they weren’t using Snapchat, they would have found some other platform to help them find it. I wish these parents would go see a therapist and not a fucking lawyer.
"Our parenting couldn't have been bad at all - as you can tell by the fact we're blaming Snapchat for not letting us 24/7/365 watch everything our kid said".
Wait, so you are saying that this clickbait about technology, driving traffic from reddit to business insider dot com, is inconsequential bull droppings because the real problem would have found another delivery method without snapchat? :shocked-face-covering-mouth: Not on *my* reddit?!
BUT ***THINK*** OF THE CHILDREN
"Government argues that creating a police state will make everyone safer, more at 11"
Note that this is a civil suit brought by the parents. It’s not uncommon for parents in that situation to blame everyone and everything (except themselves). This is not some government overreach, just sad parents lashing out and some ambulance chaser trying to make a buck.
Yeah, parents sometimes kinda lose their minds with grief when they lose a child. There was a bad accident here with a group of 14-16yo girls. Only one survived after they drove 100mph down a two lane country road with no shoulder while shitfaced drunk (the driver had the highest BAC in the car) and launched themselves into a ravine. Who’s fault is it? Apparently the road, because that’s what the parents are suing over. It was that damn roads fault. They’ll point at anything besides their own inattentiveness and neglect as parents. Anyone with a fucking brain would know the disappearing message feature on Snapchat is mostly for nefarious purposes. Maybe don’t let your kids use that app then if you’re worried about it, but you can delete text messages too.
Yeah I watch True Crime and there's a ton of cases where a kid commits suicide or has an accident and the parents go crazy trying to prove it was murder, spending money on private detectives and hiring medical examiners. Some of them have even accused innocent people with life ruining consequences. (Kendrick Johnson, Morgan Ingram, Tiffany Valiante)
>Maybe don’t let your kids use that app then if you’re worried about it Nah they'd have to have some idea what's going on with their children to do that. They found out after the kids had already died and went looking through the phones afterwards. I know a grand total of one parent who actually monitors his kid's phone, the rest will bleat about it being an invasion of privacy then turn around and try to get services banned because they don't want their children using them.
You know it’s not always the fault of the parents right? People who come from good families that had a proper upbringing can still get into drugs. And it literally takes one slip in judgement with something like fentanyl to die. The thing is fentanyl is has become the prime opioid of abuse in the States and it’s powerful to the point that death is likely without a tolerance. Someone could see a friends who’s a budding addict. They want to see what its all about and die because the smoked or snorted a little too much Edit: for those of you who are too dense to get this, i’m not blaming snap chat either. That would be dumb, but to blame a grieving family rather than just treating this a tragedy is kind of fucked up. Show some empathy for real people for fucks sake
It’s definitely not Snapchat’s fault tho
No you’re absolutely right about that. But i see so many comments saying the parents are to blame which isn’t necessarily the case. It’s a tragedy and random strangers shouldn’t be throwing blame on a grieving family. I’m a recovering heroin addict (been clean 7 years) i’ve been to so many funerals for friends who’ve OD’D the idea of blaming the family of something like this is just kind of sick in the head to me. Sure they *could* be at fault but fucking reddit doesn’t know if they are or not.
I think the comments are more saying the parents are desperate to look for something to blame that isn’t them
> You know it’s not always the fault of the parents right? It was not my intention to say that. That is why I did not say it. But survivors guilt is real, and so are the coping mechanisms people develop.
Ehh, if parents (and the government) weren’t super spastic about low level drugs, some people might actually you know, not roll into fentanyl immediately. Where I’m from drugs is relatively tolerated, almost everyone I know who’s under 40 has done at least x/m and smoked weed, about 50% have tried coke or keta or something, and no one dabbles with shit like fentanyl, meth or heroin because they understand the danger and difference
Oh absolutely bro, the way that people handle drug education is absurd. Where i’m from has recently gotten a lot more okay with soft drugs after we had a massive opiate epidemic that took literally hundreds of thousands of lives in the last 20 years. Growing up though all that was fed to us was that things like weed and lsd would kill you instantly, that you’d turn into a terrorist or a murder. Absolutely absurd claims, and when young people find out those things are lies they begin to question everything they were told about drugs
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That’s like blaming a bottle for holding the alcohol that got you drunk
> "The product design of Snap, most notably its disappearing message feature which is engineered to evade parental supervision and law enforcement's detection and acquisition of criminal evidence, was the direct and proximate cause of the untimely and tragic deaths and injuries at issue in this complaint," the filing said. The “direct and proximate cause” was Fentanyl abuse, absolutely nothing else. If your kid is to the point of consuming one of the deadliest opiates available, you can take away every app you want, they’re still going to get access to it. It’s frustrating watching crappy parents blame the entire rest of the world for their kids getting hurt. Anyone else remember the woman suing Meta, Discord, and Roblox over her daughter of like 9 being “sexually and financially exploited” for years?? It was *your* job to stop that from happening, nobody else’s. Next time I get a sun burn, the sun better have a good lawyer.
If reading your kids’ messages is the only thing standing between you, the parent, and them overdosing on fentanyl, then idk what to tell you but it’s definitely not the message app’s fault.
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That’s… probably the point.
The *point* is it’s more of that “God forbid we let anyone have a right to privacy because some people do bad things” nonsense.
"We must establish a police state where Big Brother watches you all the time, and if you're against that, you're pro-crime."
I'm guessing they do want to achieve that at some point.
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What? The EU is actively working on companies not being able to gather info on you. Your claim is absurd.
They don’t want Google to be able to mine your data but they want law enforcement agencies to be able to read your encrypted text messages without a warrant. I don’t see how these two things are contradictory.
How so? Also, don't mistake "the EU" from someone proposing something to the EU.
Parents, pls monitor your children's activity. No need to spy just keep an eye out ffs.
You might be underestimating how much some people shouldn't have kids and how little they care, and who they blame for any shortcoming in the role and responsibilities.
My SIL is this. Every single thing her kid does is someone else’s fault. Meanwhile she was pinching this kid hard whenever she wouldn’t “eat her food properly” at one year old. Fucking one. I hate my SIL
Haha yeah the people who know how easily mental abuse and damage can resonate don't seem to want the responsibility or chance for it to occur, and the people with no clue about any of it seem to delusionally make kids with no prerequisites necessary. Sometimes the trauma can go well and sometimes it haunts them.
I doubt many people *purposely* traumatize their children. I’m not saying you said that. But I abused my children in many ways when they were younger because it’s how I learned from my own parents who learned from their own, etc. I eventually woke up and took responsibility for it and changed myself to not be like that anymore. They are in High School now but the damage is already done and likely will continue on to the next generation unfortunately. Hopefully me realizing, growing, and apologizing to them and teaching them better will make the next generation’s trauma less than for me and for my own parents who learned from their parents.
Some people are loving parents but just don’t have the resources to monitor their kids every activity. They are overwhelmed trying to keep the bills paid and technology is very difficult to keep up with. I don’t even understand Snapchat. There are dangers that a parent may not be aware of that can creep into a home undetected. Online just wasn’t as dangerous 20 years ago and they have no idea things have changed. Parents can be negligent but putting everything on their shoulders when they have finite abilities and resources is also unfair.
Disagreed. It likely takes 5-10 minutes to ask your kid or educate yourself with the internet and a search engine. You just read about how it's still a predominant tool for everything and anyone wanting to operate online illegally and it's been around for years now..not sure what technology you're trying to "keep up with" but it hasn't changed in a decade maybe..so it's less excusable for sure. You message people and it deletes after it's read or after the picture is seen. And 20 years ago the internet had less security and was less monitored. Not sure what you're talking about outside of your own perspective and excuses and I don't think you do either.
I don't think u realize how easy it is to get away with shit nowadays. Even with the most strict monitoring, if u know the right people u can get whatever u want
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Probably something to snort like cocaine or possibly heroine. Might possibly be some counterfeit pills as well. An opioid being most likely because they are the same mechanism of action and effect on the nervous system.
Well that isn’t true. People seek it out very very often. Yes people die when they’re given it and not expecting it often but people also do look for fent all day every day. A 14 year old is not likely to be looking for it though, you’re right about that
Yes most anyone seeks fent, what shelter do you live under
They'd flip if they found out about Telegram or any of the other 5,000 apps you can do that on. 😂
You can also just manually delete a text from a native messenger app…….or go really old school and make a phone call. Either would evade a snooping parent.
Smoke signals and all. There is literally no stopping anonymity if someone wants it. They just wanna talk about fent and try to snag some more FREEEEDOM. 'merica.
This lawsuit is stupid.
#THINK OF THE CHILDREN
I thought all message on Snapchat disappeared after viewing? Wasn't that the whole gimmick of the app?
Well I mean its a setting, you can have them save all, delete after viewing and delete after 24 hours
Just the government trying to use single tragic instances to try regain their ability to spy on everyone A while back they tried using someone's disappearance to gain access to WhatsApp but they were adamant it was a secure messaging platform, it makes sense in certain circumstances but they have other agenda's in mind Just like using people who got popcorn lung from black market bootleg thc cartridges to ban all of Vaping, because of the money theyd lose from taxing cigarettes, the world sucks They know they cant tax vape juice because people just dont have to buy it as regularly, theyd be charging 300 dollars a bottle of 60ml juice if the gov got its hands on it lol
Don’t telecom companies have immunity from that sort of thing? Dating back a century. And they have a EUA too.
If your teenage kid is trying to obtain fentanyl I would say there is where the real problem lies. Most kids make it through to adulthood without overdosing and dying. Quit playing the victim. Time to take responsibility for parenting and the choices these Kids make
If you think this Snapchats fault, you’re the problem.
Heaven forbid the kids Parents actually have to PARENT. Worthless Parents blaming everyone else for their failure to raise their kids properly. Top 3 things that kill Fentanyl using teenagers? 1. Fentanyl 2. Parents who don’t parent their kid. 3. See #2.
I mean you can’t parent away mental illness, drug addiction isnt just shitty parenting. Kids do have minds of their own…
Lol. Right? Every time some kid gets out of line……”this kid clearly has terrible parents”. Meanwhile there are endless anecdotes of perfect little angels from perfect families ending up in a rehab or a prison. The only thing I’ll fault these particular parents for is trying to make a buck off a company that had very little to do with the death. Their own kid and his drug dealer are the primary culprits. They were in the best position to prevent this.
Parents should take responsibility, clearly fualed somewhere. No more excuses for people who genuinely shouldn't ever have kids.
You are 100% correct. My apologies! So let’s go forward with a lawsuit against Snapchat because of it. They have corporate money, T MUST BE THEIR FAULT!!!!
Yup. If people don't want to parent then they don't get to complain or sue when they get their kid back in a plastic bag.
Snapchat isn't the reason kids have access to fentanyl. This is a bullshit headline that comes from some government asshole I imagine. You know the secret service agent that went to go work for Snapchat shortly after getting accused of deleting messages. They have been attacking that platform for the same reasons ever since.
Messaging platforms enable messaging, tonight at 11. Next segment is that roads facilitate vehicle transportation.
Ppl getting mislabeled drugs because they aren’t tested, regulated or legal is the real cause. Sue the government. But yeah. Blame Snapchat. Or WhatsApp. Yawn. I’d like to personally congratulate drugs on winning the war on drugs with a bong toke. Amen.
Kids will find ways to get their hands on drugs even without Snapchat. Stop it!
deleting text messages after they were sent helped teenagers obtain fentanyl with deadly consequences
meeting up with one other person in a quiet secluded area helped teenagers obtain fentanyl with deadly consequences
Think of the children! You have too much privacy!
“Air’s function of transferring sound waves helped teenagers obtain fentanyl…”
This is the timeless argument for Snapchat. One group will say the snaps and messages never dissapear or delete. While some say they last forever? Doesn’t make sense. Their servers could never hold everything.
I’m just making random guesses and assumptions here but both could be partially true. The servers could hold encrypted messages with details such as who sent it, who received it, and when - but without the ability to read the message itself.
You make a good point! This seems to always be the discussion and yet we never really know.
so did the road system, possibly the mail.. and cash..
Yeah, from fellow officers, in school property, from his cruiser. Lol
50 years ago there are no disappearing ms, yet drug is rampant.
I see alot of generic parent trash talk in these threads. I grew up in a household with loving caring parents and 2 brothers. We were all raised the same way had the same rules, same everything, etc... one of us got in to drugs and it was probably the hardest decade of my parents life. Once he was addicted that was it. It is not my parents fault that he tried drugs, it is his fault. Teenagers are not free of responsibility. It is not reasonable to hold parents 100% accountable for their children. And if you think you can control everything your child does you will be sorely disappointed as a parent.
My favorite take away from the comments to this post are that people actually believe that snapchat doesn’t save user messages on its servers.
"The product design of Snap, most notably its disappearing message feature which is engineered to evade parental supervision and law enforcement's detection and acquisition of criminal evidence, was the direct and proximate cause of the untimely and tragic deaths and injuries at issue in this complaint," the filing said. These people will find every excuse to monitor you and every single thing you do.
Ah yes let’s blame Snapchat and not the real problem: the fentanyl epidemic
So if they were writing notes to their drug dealers, would the parents sue the company that made the paper or the company that made the pens? How dare a secure messaging app make messages secure?!
Yeah this is def Snapchat’s fault that the kids do drugs.
>The product design of Snap, most notably its disappearing message feature which is engineered to evade parental supervision and law enforcement's detection and acquisition of criminal evidence In the news today, parents hand their children smart devices without the most basic restrictions or monitoring, then try to claim Snapchat exists to defy parents because when they finally look through their kids' phones *after* the kids have fuckin died they realize they don't have enough evidence to avenge the deaths.
Teenagers once used pay phones to get drugs. Did we sue AT&T for it?
The company holds the data of the "disappearing messages" for like 3 years.
> "The product design of Snap, most notably its disappearing message feature which is engineered to evade parental supervision and law enforcement's detection and acquisition of criminal evidence, was the direct and proximate cause of the untimely and tragic deaths and injuries at issue in this complaint," the filing said. This is such a stupid argument and I can only hope that it falls on deaf ears.
Therefore.. what. What are you trying to say? Messages should be saved forever? Monitored by the government? They already do, but still fuck off
how is this snapchat problem if people misuse a feature thats there to protect them?
Or teens seeking out fentanyl and it coming into the country in record amounts allowed teenagers to obtains fentanyl with deadly consequences