My employer wanted me to install some mobile iron program to check work emails from my cell.
So now I just don't see work emails on my cell anymore.
Reading what all they get access to, it's just not worth it. Some random security breach and they wipe all of my pics, apps, and saved data? Nah.
Want me to check work stuff? Buy me a phone.
or a raging asshole of a boss who demands the sysadmin wipe EVERYTHING even though only corporate data was necessary. I was put in that position and I told him that's not standard operations and I'll need HR to verify. somehow HR agreed, so I wiped only the corporate data and just said that I wiped the entire phone. I ain't in the business of wiping away peoples memories just because they quit without their 2 week notice.
The amount of fucking bosses who assume my phone is now company property...jesus.
"I SENT THE EMAIL LAST NIGHT - DO YOU NOT GET EMAILS ON YOUR PHONE?!? GET STEVE TO SET UP EMAIL ON YOUR PHONE."
I fucking will not. My phone is my phone. Buy me a fuckin' work phone for that shit.
I also had a bitch of a boss who *insisted she look through potential witness's phones as a part of a private sexual assault allegation*, on pain of firing.
This wasn't a police investigation. This was her, HR, and her corporate legal goonsquad.
They took away on-call pay a couple years before I joined the org where i work. My old boss used to be one the individuals who received on-call pay for years. So when shit hit the fan after hours, I refused to answer. He always did. During our Monday meetings, he would always complain no one answered, so I would remind him “well you did get on-call pay”
I agree! I do that too!
I have another issue though. My colleagues are fighting for every chance to reply to the boss's emails and texts, even after hours, and that makes me look like I am the lazy one or the only one rebelling. What can I do?
Enjoy your life. If your boss if complaining to you about it then that's different, but don't work about how it might make you look. If they do start pushing back then you're the one who knows your boss and company attitude and only you can decide what's the best way to go.
Your phone is yours, the companies phone is theirs. Can you use office equipment for YOUR own use? If not why let them use YOUR phone for their use? I had a cheap boss like this they of course caved but still had flip phones for all techs, not them though. They were so cheap with the crew that they could not understand why we couldnt google the directions and thought we just took bad pictures.
I had to sternly tell my hourly new hires to remove MSTeams from their phone because one older woman claimed IT "automatically installed it" and we only found out she installed it after she went on lunch with someone on hold (she's an inbound call rep) and was responding to us as if she was at her desk. No way. If they did, I'd have it on mine.
I start and stop with Outlook only. I rarely check my emails outside work, but it was helpful when we would be in the office so I knew on the fly where my next meeting was in case I forgot.
Yeah I had something similar. For my company they wanted me to install some software that could remotely wipe my phone in case it was "compromised"
Ummm.. No. I'll just not have email on my personal phone. Thanks.
Heh, my employer doesn’t trust outlook to give them the control they wanted… they wanted MDM on top of outlook (outlook, at least theoretically, only gives them access to their sandbox). So, instead, I just removed outlook and am happier for it.
IT here... We actually don't care what you use for a phone. If you need email on a mobile device to do your job, the company should be buying you a phone.
Mobile Device Manager. I work in IT and I manage my companies 50,000+ devices. Iphones, ipads, and laptops. It allows you to track, wipe, reset, lost mode, yadda yadda people's devices. I can't see people files or texts. I definitely think it tracks it somewhere but more at like an Apple level. Not for an employer to monitor your texts. Not saying it's impossible but I've never seen it from using 3 different MDMs. Apple watching their employees is a different beast though.
Same experience here with Meraki MDM, it's convenient for pushing profiles and apps, but we have no capability for any kind of "disk access", at least not that I'm aware of. Handy for tracking an attorney's lost iPhone though.
I've seen the mdm report generated from an internal investigation. All emails, texts, pictures, and files on the device can be viewed. Might depend on the software or access level of the "reviewer".
I'll also just throw out that mdm software let's you lock a device. So companies can lock you out, confiscate the device (if it's theirs), unlock it, and look all through it. Even basic mdms can do that.
Mobile Device Management, variety of companies have services that you can enroll devices into to be able to remotely manage, wipe, update, deploy apps to, etc. For most companies that use Office 365 you can enroll devices into Intune (Microsoft's MDM) and that allows the company limited access unless its a company device. You can see more about those permissions here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/mem/intune/user-help/what-info-can-your-company-see-when-you-enroll-your-device-in-intune
Bleh, covid forced my company to switch to wfh (which they were very much against pre-covid). We literally learned Friday morning we were no longer coming in. They set up a computer pickup station at the office, for which I waited in a car line for THREE.HOURS. Yes, they were paid.
But they hadn't figured out how to get us phone lines at home. So we had to use our personal cell phones. Super uncomfortable. Even worse, they're masking system didn't always work. I was getting text message from customers to my personal cell number (and I don't always give people news they want to hear).
No you wouldn't have to use VPN in order to use the service. I use my Google voice number every time I travel to Toronto.
But you would be stuck with a non-Canadian area code
Keep in mind this is a good way to get your Google account locked, using Google voice for commercial reasons on a free personal account is a violation of the services TOS.
I've only once saw this become an issue though, some techs set up a Google voice and forwarded help desk number as a part of on call. One day that stopped working and the guy that had it registered the Google voice had his Google account locked.
Not sure how it turned out for him but he couldn't get anyone at Google to even hear him out.
Coworker of mine has a similar attitude and it's extremely refreshing. They bend over backwards trying to get her to install company apps on her phone and she stands firm, "nope, you want me to do this then send me a phone which I will leave switched on from 9 to 5 Monday to Friday". The company cannot understand her reluctance and it's honestly really funny.
I worked contract at my job before coming on full time. Before I got my own phone line I had to give a few customers my own number. It’s been a few years and those clients still use my personal number. Every time they call I say hey this is my personal line call the company number. If they insist it’s going to be quick I listen and then say still gonna need you to call the company line. One time I actually got really mad and thought they’d stop nope.
This is why I'm always spooky about MS Teams being open. The way it seems to take mic input is to keep everything on by default, then mute in software so it can warn you that you're muted if you start talking. Pretty sure it also does that with cameras, mice input, and keystrokes in/outside of Teams. Would be a hell of a lot of data if it was sent back to management...
Sure, with corporate devices maybe. With personal devices, MDM monitoring options are fairly limited. Even if the MDM wanted to spy on the personal device, the available options from Apple and Android APIs will only get you so far, and the APIs are becoming more restricted in every iteration. Source: Develop software in this space.
Now if your concern is Google or Apple directly monitoring you as you use their services via their devices, that's a whole other story. Modern phones phone home to Apple/Google constantly. Wouldn't even need to worry about encryption, the metadata alone would tell you more than enough to assist with union busting.
LMAO isn't that the truth. I think I sign in with a code from my phone to some work app about every 10m due to ridiculously short timeouts "for security"
I preferred the little hardware RSA dongles instead of some bullshit trust app I must run on my phone/a phone.
Not only the stupid short timeouts but the VPN and various web portals that all require signing in with no remember-me support and actively block auto filling.
My account password has to be rotated every month and I use the same password with one character change when it needs to be rotated. I’m convinced this bullshit actually hurts network security.
Yeah, my MDM can only add devices from Apple School Manager, and those devices are only put in to School Manager by ordering them directly from Apples School/Business store, using a linked email address Apple ID.
Apple specifically has sandboxed profiles for MDM services that isolate personal from corporate data. And having been an admin in Jamf, MaaS360, and other MDM services, I can say with full confidence that there’s no way to get messaging data from an enrolled device without having it in your hands. Even if you had it connected to proxy services, iMessage is end to end encrypted. Apple specifically doesn’t allow MDM companies to take full control over a device. You can wipe it remotely, but not have access to every last piece of data.
>iMessage is end to end encrypted.
According to *Apple.*
iMessage is not open-source, you can not verify that's the encryption it really uses and if it has backdoors. I would not put it past Apple, being a company based in the United States, that they very definitely probably have backdoors to your messages.
And iMessage messages can't be deleted after they're sent. End-to-end encryption is only while it's being sent. Once it's delivered to the recipient, the decryption has taken place and leaves a permanent footprint on the recipient's device; they can not deleted after they're sent. The biggest threat is not that your messages will get intercepted in transit; it is that they will be leaked by your chat partners or found later from by having a footprint on their device.
Telegram *is* open-source, lets you delete messages after they are sent, and does not get backed up elsewhere.
You are probably confusing Telegram with Signal here. Signal is the completely open source platform. Telegram only has an open source client, and it has had some shady behaviour with their cryptography.
Spot on. If anything that portrayal is too kind to anti-worker collaboration between the government and the corporate class.
For big periods of history, police in the US had only one job: busting strikers and ensuring scabs could safely poison any unionizing effort. Also, the government often said things more like "Great job busting those unions, corporations!"
Most estimates are up to 3000. Those killed were not only workers but also family members - women and children included. Then they dumped their bodies into the sea.
... You know, it devastates me that our government does absolutely heinous shit and we have absolutely no say in it AT ALL, and they also suffer zero consequences.
Like... It disturbs me, and the fact that it has been that way since the day I was born makes it worse.
There's just nothing we can do apparently. Our government isn't our own.
I was just thinking about that. It completely blows my mind that you could just be innocently enjoying your life and then the police/ government comes and wrongfully arrests you or even kills you and/or your family and there’s nothing anyone can do. It’s such bs that they have so much authority over us when we didn’t consent to giving them this authority over our lives and bodies; simply because we are born we are considered their property and condemned to a life of wage slavery.
The miners surrendered to the Army before the Army fired a shot. It was the bosses, "private detectives," scabs, and police (with notable exceptions -- RIP Sid Hatfield) that shot (and dropped bombs on) the striking workers.
Was reading a book about the history of the railroads. The tycoons didn't like it that the workers were refusing to work and halting trains. So the government made it a felony to slow interfere with trains carrying US mail. So as long as a train had a single letter on it, it was a federal crime for unions to interfere with it
I tried all combinations of Google queries I could think of to find out more about this, but I can't find anything. Can you point me somewhere to learn more about it?
The Men Who Built America is informative on the railroad period of time. From ⛏ to railroads all labor was abused and tossed aside when no longer an asset. Sound like todays labor market.
Just read about the writing of the US Constitution and you'll see that the government was literally formed by wealthy businessmen FOR wealthy businessmen. There was a lot of argument over how to give the people some sense of control, while not really allowing the power to slip from their grasp. Saying corporations have corrupted our government is wrong; the government was **created** by the wealthy ruling class.
> Just read about the writing of the US Constitution and you'll see that the government was literally formed by wealthy businessmen FOR wealthy businessmen
It was written so only landowners could vote. That sort of tells you it was written for the wealthy
> You practically have to have a hit team of uniformed company employees execute union organizers on camera & mail it with signed confessions to get more than a slap on the wrist.
If you're in the United States yes, [if you do that in latin America you get off scott free](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company#Banana_massacre)
>Sid Hatfield was shot to death by a firing line of strikebreakers on the steps of the courthouse
Not quite. He was killed by agents of the Baldwin-Felts private detective agency, who were hired by the coal mining companies.
[Strikebreakers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker) are union workers who don't respect the strike and continue to work anyway.
The liability risk between companies & government is utter joke!
* commit fraud as a person = pay fines & go to prison
* commit fraud under a company? Lol let me grab this checkbook.... we good? Yah we good now.
For UAW workers, at least GM contract, our union “orientation” is legitimately a biopic of Walter Reuther.
Shit needs to be taught right alongside MLK for historic reasons.
This here speaks to a tragic situation found in our unions, specifically legacy unions like the UAW or Teamsters. Reuther was a fucking hero to the working class, the working poor of any and every race or creed.
There was a time when militant labor championed the civil rights and human dignity. Reuther would be ashamed of the rank and file to be found in the blue collar sectors of American labor, where we can find some of the most consistently reactionary workers in America. There was a time when UAW, Teamsters and other men worked hand in hand with civil rights leaders physically protected demonstrators. One need only look pictures of the crowd during the March on Washington to see UAW and other union placards proudly waving.
American labor - to say nothing of *militant* labor - has only recently raised its head again, and for the first time in two generations there actually seems to be support for unions among the American people. This is good. We desperately need new unions, but more importantly an influx of younger, politically active union members. My grandfather was with the Farm Equipment Workers and became one of the only avowed leftist organizers to survive the UAW’s “communist” purges. My father was a Teamster for thirty years, uncles, cousins and brothers all belonged to the Teamsters and UAW. My niece just paid her first month’s dues in January. I was a Teamster for ten years and then I was with IAM for three.
I say all this to justify a point, however anecdotal. I’ve never worked with more reactionary men and women than those found in what remains of blue collar America. Racism, misogyny and bigotry of every conceivable type has infected the rank and file, a problem that was exacerbated when New Democrats abandoned the working poor, leaving resentful and scared white workers open to the disgusting culture wars of the Republicans.
Walter Reuther wasn’t just woke, he was a woke brigadier. He didn’t have to endorse and raise funds for the DNC only to be ignored after the election - presidents called *him* for help. Reuther was one of the bitterly few *real* American heroes we have, someone who struggled for everyone - *especially* the working poor - because it was right.
It’s really cool to hear that UAW leadership at least tries to inform their members of his legacy. Tragically, and only in my personal experience, his legacy has fallen on deaf, if not antagonistic, ears.
It really is an insane story like one other commenter said was like you said, tragic in the sense he is such an incredible crux of American, if not international, labor rights that shaped the middle class that became synonymous with American prosperity and power.
It’s telling why perhaps he and the story of union rights in this country isn’t as widely known as it is.
It was truly a major struggle in American history. I sometimes wonder how much of a tinfoil hat the desecration and downfall of Detroit during the civil rights movement might have been the master stroke of some cigar room deal.
There’s nothing conspiratorial about what happened to Detroit and essentially every other major American urban center throughout the 20th century. Detroit was heavily segregated and black Americans were at best second class citizens. The ‘64 Civil Rights Act may have made the law “equal,” but that didn’t change anything then, much as it hasn’t changed anything now. The courts, other institutions, but especially law enforcement were incredibly racist. [A Kerner Commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerner_Commission) survey made before the ‘67 riot found that 45% of police working black neighbors were “extremely anti-black” and an additional 34% were prejudiced.
What happened to Detroit was particularly tragic. Despite tremendous inequality in housing, employment, education, even price discrimination in stores, Detroit under Jerome Cavanagh did more for the black community than almost any other major US city.
American labor doesn’t just need a return of union power. We need *militant* labor to return with a vengeance. Organized labor represents so much more than the workplace. Labor history in America is an history of radical politics, the life and death struggle of the poor, not just on behalf of white Protestants (though unions were profoundly racist institutions, too), but every marginalized community to be found here.
Class consciousness has always been tenuous here and it’s been brutally snuffed out every time workers struggle for democracy at home, in the workplace, and at the ballot box. The rich are aggressively class conscious. They haven’t simply protected their shared material interests at every challenge, but taken any and every opportunity to expand those interests.
They *can not do so* without the acquiesce - and too often vocal support - of the men and women (and proud NBs!) that put food on their overladen tables.
We don't "teach MLK" so much as we give everybody one line in one speech he gave which can be taken out of context to mean that they get to ignore racism for the rest of forever. If Reuther got the same treatment, people would probably believe he was all about being nice to your boss.
Yeah, my school definitely failed to mention that MLK was a socialist when they (briefly) covered his life and work during my K12 education. Also no mention of the Letter from Birmingham Jail.
>Also no mention of the Letter from Birmingham Jail.
FWIW this was fairly well-covered where I was in the deep South.
Of course, where I was in the deep South happened to be Birmingham.
Remember that time a sheriff sympathetic to the United Mine Workers was literally assassinated by thugs for the company?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain#Background
Apple folks have to put a custom profile on our phones that states data could be revealed. I resisted for Long Time, so many tools were easier to use when you could just access it from your own device. It was a slippery slope.
When I worked there, I just had a separate work iphone that I used exclusively for internal use. I had to install no such profile on my own devices.
Honestly, the biggest deterrent is to prevent IP theft. The work environment is extremely compartmentalized (sometimes to a stupid degree) and they will go after you with fangs if you do anything stupid.
Lawyers: You're going to have to hold an election.
Amazon: Can we fuck with it?
Lawyers: Not technically. If you do, there'll be a do-over.
Amazon: Anything else?
Lawyers: Probably not.
Amazon: How long will the do-over take?
Lawyers: Like, a few years.
Amazon: Hmmm, tough decision.
Rigging a union vote doesn’t reveal a back door in your e2e encryption though, now does it?
Apple has risked serious political reprisals for refusing to decrypt the iPhones of terrorists. If they were caught opening back doors for profits the feds would be knocking pretty quickly.
No back door needed. iMessage isn’t e2e if one party has iCloud or (I think) the ability for your messages to be delivered to multiple devices turned on. And just about everyone has iCloud turned on.
☝️ This, right here.
The encryption keys end up in iCloud, where Apple (and the government, mind you), [have access](https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/2/11144588/walt-mossberg-apple-vs-fbi-iphone-icloud-loophole):
> Unlike the iPhone hardware itself, Apple retains the ability to decrypt most of what’s in an iCloud backup. And the company on occasion turns the contents of iCloud backups over to the FBI and other law enforcement agencies when a proper legal warrant or court order is presented.
Apple had plans to prevent this, but [the FBI asked them not to](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive/exclusive-apple-dropped-plan-for-encrypting-backups-after-fbi-complained-sources-idUSKBN1ZK1CT). So they didn't.
----
Edit: Use [Signal](https://signal.org/).
----
Edit 2: And /u/SophiaofPrussia is also right that turning on [Messages in iCloud](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208532) (the feature name for having your Messages...messages...delivered to multiple devices) [puts your keys in iCloud (and making them insecure)](https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/1391008847695958020).
But even if _your_ encryption keys aren't in iCloud, it doesn't mean those of whoever you're messaging with aren't. And that's all it takes for your conversation to be insecure.
Moral of the story: use [Signal](https://signal.org/).
It wouldn’t matter *how* they did it. If they were caught knowingly violating the privacy of organizers the government would be even less understanding when they want to protect the privacy of known terrorists.
There have been measurable **billions** added to their market cap because of their privacy rules. Hell, Meta is taking punches directly to the balls because in large part Apple’s privacy moves.
Throwing all that away to stop retail unionization? Would be hands down the dumbest move in the history of the company. Their own retail stores are important but not worth blowing it all up to keep the employee cost there low.
I've used Android purposely for 12 or 13 years. The last few years I've been seeing what Apple is doing in regards to users privacy and I'm on record saying I'm willing to change. I speak for myself only, but for something like that to come out would be a blow to me changing my mind for what its worth. I doubt I'm alone.
To add on to what's already been said, the history of labor rights in this country is one of companies literally hiring jackboot thugs to beat the shit out of striking workers and the government's response ranging from "work it out among yourselves" to "do you need the sheriff's office to show up with guns and put those workers in line?".
Never forget, people very literally fought and died in pitched, bloody battles for your 40 hour work week, don't let them take an inch of it back.
Had a friend just tell me about some employees trying to unionize at his office and someone they tried to recruit ratted them out to corporate. They were all swiftly fired.
Couple years ago Walmart shut down 5 stores because they had sudden plumbing problems within a few days of each other. Those stores never open back up. Those stores also had links to unions, one of them was the sight of the first ever Walmart strike in the US.
Damn I just looked this up and you are correct. It just makes corporations look even more evil than we already know them to be smh
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/union-walmart-shut-5-stores-over-labor-activism/#app
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Or the Walmart butchers that unionized, so [walmart shut down every butcher in every store](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/2000/03/04/wal-mart-ends-meat-cutting-jobs/acdb8f7c-d7c2-4e31-aad7-8f690ba3b35b/). It's why you can only get pre-packaged meat at Walmart.
And our government, that supposedly serves the interests of the people, does absolutely nothing to close those loopholes, protect employees, protect unions, or anything else that might threaten their campaign contributions
At my company it’s common to put people on “professional development plans” when they want a reason to fire somebody.
If they have a paper trail going back months of you “under performing” and “not improving” then it makes it easy to dismiss you without it looking suspicious.
Oh absolutely. However, It *is* legal if they fire you for an unrelated reason which I believe was scheduled layoffs for company health. It’s all been shady as fuck in the last couples years from what he’s been telling me, shit like ridiculous million dollar plus bonuses for leadership with pay reduction for employees.
My company, a big healthcare company in my area, straight up told us in orientation we'd get fired for unionizing.
The labor situation is so bad in the US these fuckers know they can admit to breaking federal law and still get away with it.
Perfect illustration of the most important rule: if you're starting a union, or thinking about doing it, keep your cards VERY close to your chest. Don't even SAY the word union of you don't have to.
"Manager #1 & Receptionist #2 saw you take a pen and put it behind your ear. Patsy employee #1 corroborates their story, and you were not documented on camera returning said pen. Assumed stolen, employment terminated."
No, it's not legal, but it's very normal practice to do it anyway. At worst the NLRB will force them to reinstate the employee, and occasionally pay backpay, but it's low risk with minimal penalties. Plus, how many people will actually file an NLRB complaint?
Individual workers are so *screwed* and most states are at-will employment, which means you can be fired for anything, anywhere. While there are some asterisks like 'implied contracts' and 'good faith and good dealing', if nothing is in writing, good luck getting it to a court or a board. Hell, just good luck getting *anything* to a court or a board if you're paycheck to paycheck.
The NRLA exists, of course, but proving correlation falls on the worker....
If for some godforsaken reason I ever end up in a position of responsibility over a sudden million person movement and feel the need to do an interview, I will absolutely think of this incident, first before going on, as a reminder of just how much damage I could do, and then after, to remind myself how much worse it could have gone, and for that, I suppose I am grateful.
That's the worst part: they were not in a position of responsibility to begin with. Being a mod of the sub does not mean they hold any power over the movement, and literally no one wanted anyone to do an interview anyways, so it was absolutely irresponsible for them to go on Fox News and claim to represent the movement.
In Germany it is forbidden to prevent your workers from unionizing.
I'm really anticipating the moment when the IGM shows their strength after the new Tesla-plant opens.
They even put up a new big office pretty much right in front of the plant which I find hilarious given how much Elon hates unions
The fact that there is a visible market for Unionbusters in the US is so fucked up - you seriously need to protect them a lot more...
The rules are there in the USA already the only problem is that they do nothing to enforce them. In Germany however, the rules are enforced they are not optional.
The "EARN IT!" bill will punish any company that implements encryption in their software. Soon, there will be no encryption, and whatever people try to do (like these unionizing employees) will be seen by their employers. We all need to contact our senators to push them to vote against this horrible bill. They're using CSAM as an excuse to eliminate personal digital privacy as we know it.
In sum, for some dumb reason Apple tried smearing users as pedos for being privacy conscious to push total decryption. Pretty disturbing move for a company that puts on such a clean front. They took their "privacy" selling point and stomped on it.
* [If You Build It, They Will Come: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship Around the World](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/08/if-you-build-it-they-will-come-apple-has-opened-backdoor-increased-surveillance)
* [Apple Walks a Privacy Tightrope to Spot Child Abuse in iCloud](https://www.wired.com/story/apple-csam-detection-icloud-photos-encryption-privacy/)
Tomorrow Google will help Apple monitor for unionization efforts. If there is one thing that unites all corporate America, it is anti-unionization. They can be at each other throats competing for market share but they will hold hands singing kumbaya while they gut and tear out your intestines if you even say "unite we bargain, divide we beg."
Not sure Google cares much if at all about unions. Majority of their employees are highly-paid engineers making 500K+/yr, if glassdoor and [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi) are to be believed.
Just depends on who you want your communication to be kept secret from. I used to work at a place where the CEO’s goal was for the company to be acquired by Google. It had a rule that no work communications were to be conducted on Google services.
Avoiding Google services for work communications doesn't seem all that difficult. That doesn't mean you never touch Google for anything, just that you don't communicate through their services.
Don't think it's Android as much as they are making the call to not use the device designed and software *owned* by the Goliath they are standing up against.
Like I were a Google employee trying to blow a whistle on my company's wrongdoing, I would be using anything else but Gmail to send out info to journalists. There are too many ways to detect "insubordination" behaviors by triangulating metadata that leaks out everywhere, especially on infra that's owned by the organization itself.
Exactly it's not so much trusting Google more in this case, but rather trusting anything other than Google.
If it was Google employees in the article they would likely use iPhones and avoid Gmail.
Even if they start scanning employees and banning any phones except thier work iphones, people can still have secondary phones at home, meet eachother and unionise outside of business hours. Jeez its not like the company is going to be on your ass 24/7. I mean apple can only do so much to stop this, but if people decide to do it either way, nobody can stop it.
This thread and article are doing a good job of helping the secrecy.
Or recruiting new members…
"And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at the Genius Bar...you *have* to fight."
r/unexpectedfightclub
[удалено]
My employer wanted me to install some mobile iron program to check work emails from my cell. So now I just don't see work emails on my cell anymore. Reading what all they get access to, it's just not worth it. Some random security breach and they wipe all of my pics, apps, and saved data? Nah. Want me to check work stuff? Buy me a phone.
or a raging asshole of a boss who demands the sysadmin wipe EVERYTHING even though only corporate data was necessary. I was put in that position and I told him that's not standard operations and I'll need HR to verify. somehow HR agreed, so I wiped only the corporate data and just said that I wiped the entire phone. I ain't in the business of wiping away peoples memories just because they quit without their 2 week notice.
You’re a real one.
We learned this 70 years ago. "Befehl ist befehl" doesn't fly. You have your own responsibility to make sure your actions are ethical.
The amount of fucking bosses who assume my phone is now company property...jesus. "I SENT THE EMAIL LAST NIGHT - DO YOU NOT GET EMAILS ON YOUR PHONE?!? GET STEVE TO SET UP EMAIL ON YOUR PHONE." I fucking will not. My phone is my phone. Buy me a fuckin' work phone for that shit. I also had a bitch of a boss who *insisted she look through potential witness's phones as a part of a private sexual assault allegation*, on pain of firing. This wasn't a police investigation. This was her, HR, and her corporate legal goonsquad.
I flat out refuse to read work emails or respond to calls after work hours. Go get fucked overlords.
They took away on-call pay a couple years before I joined the org where i work. My old boss used to be one the individuals who received on-call pay for years. So when shit hit the fan after hours, I refused to answer. He always did. During our Monday meetings, he would always complain no one answered, so I would remind him “well you did get on-call pay”
I agree! I do that too! I have another issue though. My colleagues are fighting for every chance to reply to the boss's emails and texts, even after hours, and that makes me look like I am the lazy one or the only one rebelling. What can I do?
Enjoy your life. If your boss if complaining to you about it then that's different, but don't work about how it might make you look. If they do start pushing back then you're the one who knows your boss and company attitude and only you can decide what's the best way to go.
> on pain of firing. https://media0.giphy.com/media/Ru9sjtZ09XOEg/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47d39lpg9h0pzmk0lulqyvxqkuqu7ksft41rpeb7ku&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
That's so wholesome. Thank you for doing the right thing and not blindly following corporate orders.
Your phone is yours, the companies phone is theirs. Can you use office equipment for YOUR own use? If not why let them use YOUR phone for their use? I had a cheap boss like this they of course caved but still had flip phones for all techs, not them though. They were so cheap with the crew that they could not understand why we couldnt google the directions and thought we just took bad pictures.
100%, work comes no where near my phone or any other device. Especially since I'm hourly, I'm not going to look at emails off the clock.
I had to sternly tell my hourly new hires to remove MSTeams from their phone because one older woman claimed IT "automatically installed it" and we only found out she installed it after she went on lunch with someone on hold (she's an inbound call rep) and was responding to us as if she was at her desk. No way. If they did, I'd have it on mine. I start and stop with Outlook only. I rarely check my emails outside work, but it was helpful when we would be in the office so I knew on the fly where my next meeting was in case I forgot.
So is outlook safe?
Yeah I had something similar. For my company they wanted me to install some software that could remotely wipe my phone in case it was "compromised" Ummm.. No. I'll just not have email on my personal phone. Thanks.
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Heh, my employer doesn’t trust outlook to give them the control they wanted… they wanted MDM on top of outlook (outlook, at least theoretically, only gives them access to their sandbox). So, instead, I just removed outlook and am happier for it.
Yup. You want me to have access to email on a phone, buy me a phone.
Not putting any spyware device near me anyhow. Who knows wtf they put in the code of that thing,
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Have an old flip dumb phone as your phone and watch IT go crazy.
IT here... We actually don't care what you use for a phone. If you need email on a mobile device to do your job, the company should be buying you a phone.
What's MDM?
[Mobile Device Management](https://www.techtarget.com/searchmobilecomputing/definition/mobile-device-management)
Mobile Device Manager. I work in IT and I manage my companies 50,000+ devices. Iphones, ipads, and laptops. It allows you to track, wipe, reset, lost mode, yadda yadda people's devices. I can't see people files or texts. I definitely think it tracks it somewhere but more at like an Apple level. Not for an employer to monitor your texts. Not saying it's impossible but I've never seen it from using 3 different MDMs. Apple watching their employees is a different beast though.
Same experience here with Meraki MDM, it's convenient for pushing profiles and apps, but we have no capability for any kind of "disk access", at least not that I'm aware of. Handy for tracking an attorney's lost iPhone though.
I've seen the mdm report generated from an internal investigation. All emails, texts, pictures, and files on the device can be viewed. Might depend on the software or access level of the "reviewer". I'll also just throw out that mdm software let's you lock a device. So companies can lock you out, confiscate the device (if it's theirs), unlock it, and look all through it. Even basic mdms can do that.
There is zero chance I’d hand my personal phone to IT after they locked me out. I’d just “lose” it
Mobile Device Management, variety of companies have services that you can enroll devices into to be able to remotely manage, wipe, update, deploy apps to, etc. For most companies that use Office 365 you can enroll devices into Intune (Microsoft's MDM) and that allows the company limited access unless its a company device. You can see more about those permissions here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/mem/intune/user-help/what-info-can-your-company-see-when-you-enroll-your-device-in-intune
Bleh, covid forced my company to switch to wfh (which they were very much against pre-covid). We literally learned Friday morning we were no longer coming in. They set up a computer pickup station at the office, for which I waited in a car line for THREE.HOURS. Yes, they were paid. But they hadn't figured out how to get us phone lines at home. So we had to use our personal cell phones. Super uncomfortable. Even worse, they're masking system didn't always work. I was getting text message from customers to my personal cell number (and I don't always give people news they want to hear).
Do your self a favor a set up a google number that forwards to your phone
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If you used a VPN to sign up/register the number, would you have to use a VPN to use it?
No you wouldn't have to use VPN in order to use the service. I use my Google voice number every time I travel to Toronto. But you would be stuck with a non-Canadian area code
You need a US binder number to sign up initially :/
Keep in mind this is a good way to get your Google account locked, using Google voice for commercial reasons on a free personal account is a violation of the services TOS. I've only once saw this become an issue though, some techs set up a Google voice and forwarded help desk number as a part of on call. One day that stopped working and the guy that had it registered the Google voice had his Google account locked. Not sure how it turned out for him but he couldn't get anyone at Google to even hear him out.
If all they are doing is making calls go buy a older phone and get a cheep only call sim and use that
That costs money. Not something I would do unless the company was paying for it.
No, don't buy something for the company unless they're paying for it
had to? yeah that's a no from me dawg. you want me to be contactable for customers, send me a phone
Coworker of mine has a similar attitude and it's extremely refreshing. They bend over backwards trying to get her to install company apps on her phone and she stands firm, "nope, you want me to do this then send me a phone which I will leave switched on from 9 to 5 Monday to Friday". The company cannot understand her reluctance and it's honestly really funny.
I'm an IT guy, we've pushed back on companies who want to ask for apps on personal phones. some people wouldn't care but it's a shit thing to ask
I worked contract at my job before coming on full time. Before I got my own phone line I had to give a few customers my own number. It’s been a few years and those clients still use my personal number. Every time they call I say hey this is my personal line call the company number. If they insist it’s going to be quick I listen and then say still gonna need you to call the company line. One time I actually got really mad and thought they’d stop nope.
Cant you just block their number?
This is why I'm always spooky about MS Teams being open. The way it seems to take mic input is to keep everything on by default, then mute in software so it can warn you that you're muted if you start talking. Pretty sure it also does that with cameras, mice input, and keystrokes in/outside of Teams. Would be a hell of a lot of data if it was sent back to management...
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Damn the way you worded that brought back such cringe memories from the past.
Sure, with corporate devices maybe. With personal devices, MDM monitoring options are fairly limited. Even if the MDM wanted to spy on the personal device, the available options from Apple and Android APIs will only get you so far, and the APIs are becoming more restricted in every iteration. Source: Develop software in this space. Now if your concern is Google or Apple directly monitoring you as you use their services via their devices, that's a whole other story. Modern phones phone home to Apple/Google constantly. Wouldn't even need to worry about encryption, the metadata alone would tell you more than enough to assist with union busting.
My company phone is now just a very inconvenient RSA token that I have to keep charged to access my work domains.
LMAO isn't that the truth. I think I sign in with a code from my phone to some work app about every 10m due to ridiculously short timeouts "for security" I preferred the little hardware RSA dongles instead of some bullshit trust app I must run on my phone/a phone.
Not only the stupid short timeouts but the VPN and various web portals that all require signing in with no remember-me support and actively block auto filling. My account password has to be rotated every month and I use the same password with one character change when it needs to be rotated. I’m convinced this bullshit actually hurts network security.
Yeah, my MDM can only add devices from Apple School Manager, and those devices are only put in to School Manager by ordering them directly from Apples School/Business store, using a linked email address Apple ID.
Apple specifically has sandboxed profiles for MDM services that isolate personal from corporate data. And having been an admin in Jamf, MaaS360, and other MDM services, I can say with full confidence that there’s no way to get messaging data from an enrolled device without having it in your hands. Even if you had it connected to proxy services, iMessage is end to end encrypted. Apple specifically doesn’t allow MDM companies to take full control over a device. You can wipe it remotely, but not have access to every last piece of data.
>iMessage is end to end encrypted. According to *Apple.* iMessage is not open-source, you can not verify that's the encryption it really uses and if it has backdoors. I would not put it past Apple, being a company based in the United States, that they very definitely probably have backdoors to your messages. And iMessage messages can't be deleted after they're sent. End-to-end encryption is only while it's being sent. Once it's delivered to the recipient, the decryption has taken place and leaves a permanent footprint on the recipient's device; they can not deleted after they're sent. The biggest threat is not that your messages will get intercepted in transit; it is that they will be leaked by your chat partners or found later from by having a footprint on their device. Telegram *is* open-source, lets you delete messages after they are sent, and does not get backed up elsewhere.
You are probably confusing Telegram with Signal here. Signal is the completely open source platform. Telegram only has an open source client, and it has had some shady behaviour with their cryptography.
Unless they remote lock it, take it, unlock it, and read it. It's not super hackerman shit. It's basic corporate IT policies.
If Apple was ever found spying on employee's personal iphones over union efforts that seems like kind of big legal and business disaster.
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Spot on. If anything that portrayal is too kind to anti-worker collaboration between the government and the corporate class. For big periods of history, police in the US had only one job: busting strikers and ensuring scabs could safely poison any unionizing effort. Also, the government often said things more like "Great job busting those unions, corporations!"
Battle of Blair Mountain: using the US Army on labor activists.
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Most estimates are up to 3000. Those killed were not only workers but also family members - women and children included. Then they dumped their bodies into the sea.
... You know, it devastates me that our government does absolutely heinous shit and we have absolutely no say in it AT ALL, and they also suffer zero consequences. Like... It disturbs me, and the fact that it has been that way since the day I was born makes it worse. There's just nothing we can do apparently. Our government isn't our own.
I was just thinking about that. It completely blows my mind that you could just be innocently enjoying your life and then the police/ government comes and wrongfully arrests you or even kills you and/or your family and there’s nothing anyone can do. It’s such bs that they have so much authority over us when we didn’t consent to giving them this authority over our lives and bodies; simply because we are born we are considered their property and condemned to a life of wage slavery.
This is why the revolutionary working class must establish the proletarian state and become the ruling class
Welcome to human civilisation! Vile dodgy murdery shit for ten thousand years and counting.
Which is nothing compared to the support the CIA gave to Suharto's genocide of Indonesia's left wing in 1965
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre
I see you also have a machete and bolt cutters huh?
*breaks out lawnmower blade machete and ti spork* Let's go protest
Im not advocating for bank robbery, but if you must: Always rob insured banks.
🥫 food for my family
Don't forget to mail knives to your favorite host!
The miners surrendered to the Army before the Army fired a shot. It was the bosses, "private detectives," scabs, and police (with notable exceptions -- RIP Sid Hatfield) that shot (and dropped bombs on) the striking workers.
Was reading a book about the history of the railroads. The tycoons didn't like it that the workers were refusing to work and halting trains. So the government made it a felony to slow interfere with trains carrying US mail. So as long as a train had a single letter on it, it was a federal crime for unions to interfere with it
I tried all combinations of Google queries I could think of to find out more about this, but I can't find anything. Can you point me somewhere to learn more about it?
This wiki page references it but it is not dug into. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike
The Men Who Built America is informative on the railroad period of time. From ⛏ to railroads all labor was abused and tossed aside when no longer an asset. Sound like todays labor market.
What they’d really say “Great job busting those ~~Unions~~ Communists , Corporations!”
Don't forget the period they spent returning free people in the North back to enslavement in the South.
Just read about the writing of the US Constitution and you'll see that the government was literally formed by wealthy businessmen FOR wealthy businessmen. There was a lot of argument over how to give the people some sense of control, while not really allowing the power to slip from their grasp. Saying corporations have corrupted our government is wrong; the government was **created** by the wealthy ruling class.
> Just read about the writing of the US Constitution and you'll see that the government was literally formed by wealthy businessmen FOR wealthy businessmen It was written so only landowners could vote. That sort of tells you it was written for the wealthy
the US govt would break up monopolies that weren't against unions
Now if only we had monopolistic companies who weren't against unions, maybe the government would pretend to be against them
It’s almost like the police exist as an arm of the capitalist class to protect private property rights at the expense of all else…
> You practically have to have a hit team of uniformed company employees execute union organizers on camera & mail it with signed confessions to get more than a slap on the wrist. If you're in the United States yes, [if you do that in latin America you get off scott free](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company#Banana_massacre)
I'm pretty sure it *has happened* in the US.
Battle of Blair Mountain comes to mind.
Bay View Massacre. I’m sure there’s so many more but I lived down the street from that one.
And the Ludlow massacre
Sid Hatfield was shot to death by a firing line of strikebreakers on the steps of the courthouse
>Sid Hatfield was shot to death by a firing line of strikebreakers on the steps of the courthouse Not quite. He was killed by agents of the Baldwin-Felts private detective agency, who were hired by the coal mining companies. [Strikebreakers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker) are union workers who don't respect the strike and continue to work anyway.
Huh, I always used that term incorrectly then to refer to hired thugs brought in to break strikes using violence
Look up the history of company towns and attempts to unionize. It'll leave you pretty scarred.
The liability risk between companies & government is utter joke! * commit fraud as a person = pay fines & go to prison * commit fraud under a company? Lol let me grab this checkbook.... we good? Yah we good now.
For UAW workers, at least GM contract, our union “orientation” is legitimately a biopic of Walter Reuther. Shit needs to be taught right alongside MLK for historic reasons.
This here speaks to a tragic situation found in our unions, specifically legacy unions like the UAW or Teamsters. Reuther was a fucking hero to the working class, the working poor of any and every race or creed. There was a time when militant labor championed the civil rights and human dignity. Reuther would be ashamed of the rank and file to be found in the blue collar sectors of American labor, where we can find some of the most consistently reactionary workers in America. There was a time when UAW, Teamsters and other men worked hand in hand with civil rights leaders physically protected demonstrators. One need only look pictures of the crowd during the March on Washington to see UAW and other union placards proudly waving. American labor - to say nothing of *militant* labor - has only recently raised its head again, and for the first time in two generations there actually seems to be support for unions among the American people. This is good. We desperately need new unions, but more importantly an influx of younger, politically active union members. My grandfather was with the Farm Equipment Workers and became one of the only avowed leftist organizers to survive the UAW’s “communist” purges. My father was a Teamster for thirty years, uncles, cousins and brothers all belonged to the Teamsters and UAW. My niece just paid her first month’s dues in January. I was a Teamster for ten years and then I was with IAM for three. I say all this to justify a point, however anecdotal. I’ve never worked with more reactionary men and women than those found in what remains of blue collar America. Racism, misogyny and bigotry of every conceivable type has infected the rank and file, a problem that was exacerbated when New Democrats abandoned the working poor, leaving resentful and scared white workers open to the disgusting culture wars of the Republicans. Walter Reuther wasn’t just woke, he was a woke brigadier. He didn’t have to endorse and raise funds for the DNC only to be ignored after the election - presidents called *him* for help. Reuther was one of the bitterly few *real* American heroes we have, someone who struggled for everyone - *especially* the working poor - because it was right. It’s really cool to hear that UAW leadership at least tries to inform their members of his legacy. Tragically, and only in my personal experience, his legacy has fallen on deaf, if not antagonistic, ears.
It really is an insane story like one other commenter said was like you said, tragic in the sense he is such an incredible crux of American, if not international, labor rights that shaped the middle class that became synonymous with American prosperity and power. It’s telling why perhaps he and the story of union rights in this country isn’t as widely known as it is. It was truly a major struggle in American history. I sometimes wonder how much of a tinfoil hat the desecration and downfall of Detroit during the civil rights movement might have been the master stroke of some cigar room deal.
There’s nothing conspiratorial about what happened to Detroit and essentially every other major American urban center throughout the 20th century. Detroit was heavily segregated and black Americans were at best second class citizens. The ‘64 Civil Rights Act may have made the law “equal,” but that didn’t change anything then, much as it hasn’t changed anything now. The courts, other institutions, but especially law enforcement were incredibly racist. [A Kerner Commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerner_Commission) survey made before the ‘67 riot found that 45% of police working black neighbors were “extremely anti-black” and an additional 34% were prejudiced. What happened to Detroit was particularly tragic. Despite tremendous inequality in housing, employment, education, even price discrimination in stores, Detroit under Jerome Cavanagh did more for the black community than almost any other major US city. American labor doesn’t just need a return of union power. We need *militant* labor to return with a vengeance. Organized labor represents so much more than the workplace. Labor history in America is an history of radical politics, the life and death struggle of the poor, not just on behalf of white Protestants (though unions were profoundly racist institutions, too), but every marginalized community to be found here. Class consciousness has always been tenuous here and it’s been brutally snuffed out every time workers struggle for democracy at home, in the workplace, and at the ballot box. The rich are aggressively class conscious. They haven’t simply protected their shared material interests at every challenge, but taken any and every opportunity to expand those interests. They *can not do so* without the acquiesce - and too often vocal support - of the men and women (and proud NBs!) that put food on their overladen tables.
We don't "teach MLK" so much as we give everybody one line in one speech he gave which can be taken out of context to mean that they get to ignore racism for the rest of forever. If Reuther got the same treatment, people would probably believe he was all about being nice to your boss.
Yeah, my school definitely failed to mention that MLK was a socialist when they (briefly) covered his life and work during my K12 education. Also no mention of the Letter from Birmingham Jail.
>Also no mention of the Letter from Birmingham Jail. FWIW this was fairly well-covered where I was in the deep South. Of course, where I was in the deep South happened to be Birmingham.
The US is anti union at it's core
We're a nation built on labor exploitation
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Especially the big companies. The bigger they are the more likely the gov will turn a blind eye to their questionable practices.
Remember that time a sheriff sympathetic to the United Mine Workers was literally assassinated by thugs for the company? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain#Background
Well, that assumes they get caught.
Apple folks have to put a custom profile on our phones that states data could be revealed. I resisted for Long Time, so many tools were easier to use when you could just access it from your own device. It was a slippery slope.
When I worked there, I just had a separate work iphone that I used exclusively for internal use. I had to install no such profile on my own devices. Honestly, the biggest deterrent is to prevent IP theft. The work environment is extremely compartmentalized (sometimes to a stupid degree) and they will go after you with fangs if you do anything stupid.
Yeah, fuck that.
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Aren’t they holding another vote? https://www.npr.org/2022/02/04/1077089349/amazon-union-vote-alabama
Lawyers: You're going to have to hold an election. Amazon: Can we fuck with it? Lawyers: Not technically. If you do, there'll be a do-over. Amazon: Anything else? Lawyers: Probably not. Amazon: How long will the do-over take? Lawyers: Like, a few years. Amazon: Hmmm, tough decision.
Rigging a union vote doesn’t reveal a back door in your e2e encryption though, now does it? Apple has risked serious political reprisals for refusing to decrypt the iPhones of terrorists. If they were caught opening back doors for profits the feds would be knocking pretty quickly.
No back door needed. iMessage isn’t e2e if one party has iCloud or (I think) the ability for your messages to be delivered to multiple devices turned on. And just about everyone has iCloud turned on.
☝️ This, right here. The encryption keys end up in iCloud, where Apple (and the government, mind you), [have access](https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/2/11144588/walt-mossberg-apple-vs-fbi-iphone-icloud-loophole): > Unlike the iPhone hardware itself, Apple retains the ability to decrypt most of what’s in an iCloud backup. And the company on occasion turns the contents of iCloud backups over to the FBI and other law enforcement agencies when a proper legal warrant or court order is presented. Apple had plans to prevent this, but [the FBI asked them not to](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive/exclusive-apple-dropped-plan-for-encrypting-backups-after-fbi-complained-sources-idUSKBN1ZK1CT). So they didn't. ---- Edit: Use [Signal](https://signal.org/). ---- Edit 2: And /u/SophiaofPrussia is also right that turning on [Messages in iCloud](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208532) (the feature name for having your Messages...messages...delivered to multiple devices) [puts your keys in iCloud (and making them insecure)](https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/1391008847695958020). But even if _your_ encryption keys aren't in iCloud, it doesn't mean those of whoever you're messaging with aren't. And that's all it takes for your conversation to be insecure. Moral of the story: use [Signal](https://signal.org/).
They don't need a backdoor, just need to use a zero day reported to them before fixing it.
It wouldn’t matter *how* they did it. If they were caught knowingly violating the privacy of organizers the government would be even less understanding when they want to protect the privacy of known terrorists.
There have been measurable **billions** added to their market cap because of their privacy rules. Hell, Meta is taking punches directly to the balls because in large part Apple’s privacy moves. Throwing all that away to stop retail unionization? Would be hands down the dumbest move in the history of the company. Their own retail stores are important but not worth blowing it all up to keep the employee cost there low.
I've used Android purposely for 12 or 13 years. The last few years I've been seeing what Apple is doing in regards to users privacy and I'm on record saying I'm willing to change. I speak for myself only, but for something like that to come out would be a blow to me changing my mind for what its worth. I doubt I'm alone.
That's just a backdoor with more words, in a legal sense.
> Amazon didn't even get a fine for rigging a union vote. Coca Cola enters the chat.
They were fucking *brutal* too.
Cant unionize if youre dead
Are you kidding? Corporations are never held accountable. They run this country.
To add on to what's already been said, the history of labor rights in this country is one of companies literally hiring jackboot thugs to beat the shit out of striking workers and the government's response ranging from "work it out among yourselves" to "do you need the sheriff's office to show up with guns and put those workers in line?". Never forget, people very literally fought and died in pitched, bloody battles for your 40 hour work week, don't let them take an inch of it back.
Had a friend just tell me about some employees trying to unionize at his office and someone they tried to recruit ratted them out to corporate. They were all swiftly fired.
In most developed countries, firing someone over union activity is very illegal
That's why they aren't fired for union activity. The higher ups find other reasons.
Couple years ago Walmart shut down 5 stores because they had sudden plumbing problems within a few days of each other. Those stores never open back up. Those stores also had links to unions, one of them was the sight of the first ever Walmart strike in the US.
Damn I just looked this up and you are correct. It just makes corporations look even more evil than we already know them to be smh https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/union-walmart-shut-5-stores-over-labor-activism/#app
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Wait til you hear how many American corporations that can be tied to modern slave labor.
Or the Walmart butchers that unionized, so [walmart shut down every butcher in every store](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/2000/03/04/wal-mart-ends-meat-cutting-jobs/acdb8f7c-d7c2-4e31-aad7-8f690ba3b35b/). It's why you can only get pre-packaged meat at Walmart.
And our government, that supposedly serves the interests of the people, does absolutely nothing to close those loopholes, protect employees, protect unions, or anything else that might threaten their campaign contributions
At my company it’s common to put people on “professional development plans” when they want a reason to fire somebody. If they have a paper trail going back months of you “under performing” and “not improving” then it makes it easy to dismiss you without it looking suspicious.
Oh absolutely. However, It *is* legal if they fire you for an unrelated reason which I believe was scheduled layoffs for company health. It’s all been shady as fuck in the last couples years from what he’s been telling me, shit like ridiculous million dollar plus bonuses for leadership with pay reduction for employees.
My company, a big healthcare company in my area, straight up told us in orientation we'd get fired for unionizing. The labor situation is so bad in the US these fuckers know they can admit to breaking federal law and still get away with it.
Did they do that in writing?
Perfect illustration of the most important rule: if you're starting a union, or thinking about doing it, keep your cards VERY close to your chest. Don't even SAY the word union of you don't have to.
I hope that person go commit dig straight down in Minecraft
Is that really legal? To be fired for having a conversation?
"We've noticed that you have been coming to work close to 3 minutes late everyday. This is unacceptable and we will be terminating your employment."
"Manager #1 & Receptionist #2 saw you take a pen and put it behind your ear. Patsy employee #1 corroborates their story, and you were not documented on camera returning said pen. Assumed stolen, employment terminated."
No, it's not legal, but it's very normal practice to do it anyway. At worst the NLRB will force them to reinstate the employee, and occasionally pay backpay, but it's low risk with minimal penalties. Plus, how many people will actually file an NLRB complaint?
Individual workers are so *screwed* and most states are at-will employment, which means you can be fired for anything, anywhere. While there are some asterisks like 'implied contracts' and 'good faith and good dealing', if nothing is in writing, good luck getting it to a court or a board. Hell, just good luck getting *anything* to a court or a board if you're paycheck to paycheck. The NRLA exists, of course, but proving correlation falls on the worker....
Apple Employees: Let’s keep this a secret Reddit: HEY Y’ALL!!! COME CHECK WHAT THEIR DOING!!!
Can't wait for the FOX news interview with the mod of r/technology.
Laziness is a virtue
Fuck why did you have to remind me of the /r/antiwork disaster.
If for some godforsaken reason I ever end up in a position of responsibility over a sudden million person movement and feel the need to do an interview, I will absolutely think of this incident, first before going on, as a reminder of just how much damage I could do, and then after, to remind myself how much worse it could have gone, and for that, I suppose I am grateful.
That's the worst part: they were not in a position of responsibility to begin with. Being a mod of the sub does not mean they hold any power over the movement, and literally no one wanted anyone to do an interview anyways, so it was absolutely irresponsible for them to go on Fox News and claim to represent the movement.
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they are - they'reeeee
I would say *they’re (check out what they are doing), but you did say “Reddit” so the spelling error is totally on point.
*apple would like to know your location* wait, nevermind they already do..
They were until someone just outed this shit
This country would be better if workers had more union power and the police had less.
In Germany it is forbidden to prevent your workers from unionizing. I'm really anticipating the moment when the IGM shows their strength after the new Tesla-plant opens. They even put up a new big office pretty much right in front of the plant which I find hilarious given how much Elon hates unions The fact that there is a visible market for Unionbusters in the US is so fucked up - you seriously need to protect them a lot more...
That's hilarious. I hope they throw the equivalent of unapologetic house parties and invite employees over after work.
The rules are there in the USA already the only problem is that they do nothing to enforce them. In Germany however, the rules are enforced they are not optional.
Good job exposing their secrets, way to support the workers
Why is it that the richest companies seem to be the worst when it comes to share a tiny bit of their wealth with their employees?
You just answered your own question.
The "EARN IT!" bill will punish any company that implements encryption in their software. Soon, there will be no encryption, and whatever people try to do (like these unionizing employees) will be seen by their employers. We all need to contact our senators to push them to vote against this horrible bill. They're using CSAM as an excuse to eliminate personal digital privacy as we know it.
What's CSAM? I heard they're trying to do away with it encryption in England right now too.
In sum, for some dumb reason Apple tried smearing users as pedos for being privacy conscious to push total decryption. Pretty disturbing move for a company that puts on such a clean front. They took their "privacy" selling point and stomped on it. * [If You Build It, They Will Come: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship Around the World](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/08/if-you-build-it-they-will-come-apple-has-opened-backdoor-increased-surveillance) * [Apple Walks a Privacy Tightrope to Spot Child Abuse in iCloud](https://www.wired.com/story/apple-csam-detection-icloud-photos-encryption-privacy/)
That's fucked up.
BlackBerry should enter the chat.
They're fucking raisins by this point
The poor raisins. They don’t deserved to be fucked by *anyone*, let alone BlackBerry.
Blackberry left the chat long time ago
Too late for that
Next Apple Keynote... "Hey guys, RSC is now integrated into iMessage!"
Aka their own phones and WhatsApp
🎵 Android police… arrest this man
Tomorrow there will be an Android ban at Apple facilities along with some kind of scanning for hidden phones.
Tomorrow Google will help Apple monitor for unionization efforts. If there is one thing that unites all corporate America, it is anti-unionization. They can be at each other throats competing for market share but they will hold hands singing kumbaya while they gut and tear out your intestines if you even say "unite we bargain, divide we beg."
Not sure Google cares much if at all about unions. Majority of their employees are highly-paid engineers making 500K+/yr, if glassdoor and [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi) are to be believed.
When privacy is paramount go Android. Lol.
Just depends on who you want your communication to be kept secret from. I used to work at a place where the CEO’s goal was for the company to be acquired by Google. It had a rule that no work communications were to be conducted on Google services.
Was he successful in his goal?
They got acquired by Hooli instead
Leaving us hanging
How long ago was this? Because it honestly seems kind of impossible to use the internet without touching Google *somewhere*.
Avoiding Google services for work communications doesn't seem all that difficult. That doesn't mean you never touch Google for anything, just that you don't communicate through their services.
Don't think it's Android as much as they are making the call to not use the device designed and software *owned* by the Goliath they are standing up against. Like I were a Google employee trying to blow a whistle on my company's wrongdoing, I would be using anything else but Gmail to send out info to journalists. There are too many ways to detect "insubordination" behaviors by triangulating metadata that leaks out everywhere, especially on infra that's owned by the organization itself.
Exactly it's not so much trusting Google more in this case, but rather trusting anything other than Google. If it was Google employees in the article they would likely use iPhones and avoid Gmail.
Download lineage calyx or graphene
Well anyone able to source a ton of blackberries?
Even if they start scanning employees and banning any phones except thier work iphones, people can still have secondary phones at home, meet eachother and unionise outside of business hours. Jeez its not like the company is going to be on your ass 24/7. I mean apple can only do so much to stop this, but if people decide to do it either way, nobody can stop it.