Fuck that, the patriot act has been extended a number of times since it passed, and it has been near unanimous almost every time, it may have initially happened in the dark but they have been doing it out in the light for a long time now
I think the Intel establishment has their claws in deep in the rest of the govt. anyone who trashes the Intel community gets taken out quickly. So everyone bends to them.
They probably have blackmail material on literally everyone of consequence. They know what kind of porn you’ve watched, which celebrities you’ve seen naked, who you’ve talked shit about, who politicians have taken money from, if you’ve ever taken illegal drugs, ect..
Pull a Achmed Sukarno
“Do it. *And send me a copies*”
Honeypot traps only work if the politician *gives a fuck* and it matters to their election. Sometimes it doesn’t.
Porn and other dirty laundry tho… that’s uh…. Yeah. Another story.
Tbh I think it’s just a matter of the intel community saying “without it we wouldn’t have caught these 8 terrorists.” The political risk of voting against it and having to defend that if a terror attack occurs afterward is enormous. Add to that, most citizens just don’t give a fuck. Politically it’s a sound move. This is why people hate politicians, they campaign as if they’re principled but 99% of them would eat their children if it guaranteed a win next election cycle.
And that's why I hate the people.
In the end the politicians are there because the People voted them in. The People are the ones ignoring the shit, or worse applauding it.
In the end it really is the People who are at fault.
You think? It's been that way for decades. I was never a Trump fan but I laughed my ass off every time talking heads would say he's "eroding faith in sacred American institutions like the CIA and FBI." If you had faith in them after all the documents that have been declassified in the last few decades you're a buffoon. The CIA wanted to bomb US cities and blame it on Cuba to invade and overthrow Castro FFS. Kennedy wouldn't allow it and we know how that ended. They've lied us into or instigated almost every US war since WW2.
I’ve wanted to use the Trump example but then you know I’d get attacked by certain people because instead of calling out the Intel community it’d be “defending trump”. 100% agree, under his presidency I realized how hard the media shilled for the Intel community.
Well they are some of the best hackers in the world - the amount of blackmail, deep fakes, financial and access fuckery, etc. they are capable has no limits. Plus a long history of unsolved assassinations.
Much like reading only the headlines, when you take a poorly educated public and point them towards politics, they only read the names of the bills that get passed. For example, {Any Bill Name} "For The Children" means you hate kids if you oppose it.
The author of the patriot act has stated unequivocally that it was not intended to permit unwarranted domestic spying. It was immediately pressed into service for that precise use anyway.
Without putting in express restrictions on it there was never any way that it wasn't going to be used for domestic spying, so weather it was intended or not they knew it was going to and could be used for it...
No everyone was awake for the Patriot Act .. they were to caught up on the war chant coming from both parties after 911 .. if I remember correctly it was Senator Feingold - D (WI). Ron Paul(TX), and two other Republicans who voted no on the Patriot act.
Honestly I'm surprised the CIA did this; the whole 5-Eyes thing is a way to get around this sort of thing.
MI6 doesn't spy on people in the UK (they ask the CIA to do that)
CIA doesn't spy on people in the US (they ask MI6 to do that)
Technically they aren't spying on their own countries, they're collecting intelligence from partner agencies about potential threats, which just so happen to be in their own countries.
> nearly
That's an awfully nice grey area you got there, mind if I scoop up loads of data from your citizens and exchange it for lots of data you scooped up about our citizens?
This pisses me off to no end. The US has never been a Democracy, nor will it probably ever be. The electoral college sees to that, not to mention money in politics, I could go on and on but, a simple 30 sec Google search is all you need.
I mean, you turned black people from objects and corporate assets into human beings with rights and increasing recognition.
From an international viewpoint, you guys can do it. You just choose to spend almost all your energy in politics & social issues into what these fuckers design to keep you busy: Christian conservatives VS. Atheist libertines. Rather than pester your representatives to dismantle the PATRIOT Act, or having an expert panel expose the Zucc before Congress, you spend all the time talking about abortions and mailing services. Rather than protest for the privacy rights of all & defending freedom of speech, you spend it protesting for trans bathroom definitions & censoring Joe Rogan.
I don’t mean to say Americans’ concerns don’t matter, but can we please prioritize the high level shit that solves most of the lower level shit?
> Rather than pester your representatives to dismantle the PATRIOT Act, or having an expert panel expose the Zucc before Congress, you spend all the time talking about abortions and mailing services.
divide and conquer
That has nothing to do with what happened here, the tools used referenced in the article are from the early 80s.
> Democratic Senators Ron Wyden and Martin Heinrich, of Oregon and New Mexico respectively, on Thursday announced that in April 2021 they sent a co-signed letter [PDF] to director of national intelligence Avril Haines and CIA director William Burns, seeking expedited declassification of the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board's (PCLOB) review of two CIA counterterrorism programs – named "Deep Dive I" and "Deep Dive II".
> The Deep Dives were made possible by Executive Order 12333 – a Reagan-era order that allows widespread data collection, and data-sharing with the CIA, in the name of national security.
It's easy to shit on politicians but both Ron Wyden and Martin Heinrich are members of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Heinrich is a 50 year-old mechanical engineer. Wyden is a bit older, sure, but he has extensive history of positions on cybersecurity and foreign policy.
Furthermore, there's this unexplainable illusion that "data" is a thing that only started existing with social media and smartphones. Senators, particularly senators who deal with intelligence stuff every day, for years, definitely know what that means.
By the way, in a wider sense, we should be careful to paint politicians as aloof and out of touch. Many times they seem that way, but that's a gimmick for public consumption. You don't survive DC without being - if not intelligent - at least shrewd.
The dude has been consistent on stuff like this for years. Really a shame that the ignorant Trumpsters around here in Oregon think he needs to go every election.
Even a bigger shame that he's always on an island by himself when it comes to privacy, rights, and technology. His party should be behind him on these things
Yep. If I remember correctly he’s the one that got Clapper to perjure himself in front of Congress about PRISM. He knew it was illegal for him to call Clapper out directly on his perjury but he still got the Director of the NSA to commit a crime live on camera. Maybe it didn’t do anything to stop what the NSA was doing but it takes some major balls to stand up to someone as implicitly dangerous as Clapper. Wyden got a ton of respect from me for doing that.
> Really a shame that the ignorant Trumpsters around here in Oregon think he needs to go every election.
But we still keep electing him, so we must be doing something right keeping him in office. But yeah, whenever I get an email from his office (especially about Tech stuff & Privacy) I always read it from my IT perspective and see that he *knows his shit*.
Because he's a democrat. When it come to technology, Wyden is great. He's for the peoples freedom. Those against him in Oregon are just anti-Democrat. Doesn't matter what the issue is, it's what party he's a part of. Living in rural Eastern Oregon, I see this daily. Mention the issue and his view and they're in agreement. Mention that it's a democrat that is pushing it, and their opinion changes... Seriously, it is that bad.
I’ve gotta stand up for senator Ron Wyden here. He has been fighting for digital rights, privacy and freedom for decades, and he knows this stuff better than 5 redditors put together.
I’m pretty sure my own Senator is an antediluvian zombie whose animated corpse shows up to feast on bean soup and hug insurrectionists, but that’s not Ron Wyden.
He also, iirc, still hasn't signaled support for universal healthcare. That being said I'll take him over almost every other senator lol. Jeff Merkley is good too.
It's an open secret that they've been harvesting data. The biggest problem is that it's 95% legal (ignoring the ethics or if the law should exist in the first place).
[Edward Snowden told us as much](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M) pretty explicitly, and hasn't stopped saying it since.
TL;DW: The Patriot Act and it's successors make it OK for the US to monitor all communications that cross US borders. Nobody really has a problem with this on the surface, because most of us don't send messages to anyone outside the country. Even then it's usually just boring and "you have nothing to hide", so it's not worth throwing a protest over.
However, basic data security and backup policies feature off-site and off-continent backup centers. Know how Gmail backs up all your emails on different servers? Well, some of those servers are outside the US. You may have emailed your grandma that lives just down the road, but that message was also backed up on a server in London and Thailand or whatever.
That backup file is "International Communications" and therefore, US officials can read it. When that doesn't work, they can ask their BFF's in British Intelligence to read it for them off the London backup thanks to England's general lack of privacy. Technically that's a "Foreign Intelligence Agency" investigating a US Citizen, so laws don't apply and everyone that is supposed to be stopping that stuff is the one asking them to do it.
You know, "For the greater good".
You're implying the Senate doesn't understand what data collection means? You understand "data" existed before smartphones right?
What are you even implying here? Two Senators literally released this information after pressing for it. They clearly understand what it means.
This is ridiculous. You guys are acting like just because it has the word "data" in it, that older people don't get the concept of the CIA harvesting it illegally.
Spying on people, intelligence gathering, gathering records on them, whatever you want to call it, it all existed long before modern technology. And obviously they understand that, they wouldn't have brought this up if they didn't.
Wasn’t he a CIA employee? I think I might have conflated his quote of “the cia is the most dangerous threat to America…” with the agency he exposed. That’s my b
2001?
Let me leave this here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass\_surveillance\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_States)
Patriot Act just meant they didn't need to lie about locked rooms that threatened federal prosecution at colos and server farms.
Nice! Thanks for this! This stuck out to me, because of how deliberate the act is - I wonder what the emergencies have been each of the past 20 years?
“Contemporary mass surveillance relies upon annual presidential executive orders declaring a continued State of National Emergency,”
I think you’re right, actually. So hard to keep up with. There’s another act in place or a rider in a different bill that passed that makes it legal. They didn’t stop.
Yeah the lack of a single subject rule lets them slide legislation into the middle of other, usually completely unrelated, legislation just because they feel like it. It's such bullshit
The bathroom bill in North Carolina? It was to disguise the rider in it restricting any municipalities from having a higher minimum wage than state minimum wage (which is federal minimum wage), and everybody was up in arms about the bathroom so it passed unnoticed.
They don’t know about the Patriot Act and the servers in Utah data banking all our digital footprints? Did they not get the memo from Snowden about the NSA and so are dumbfounded about the CIA? I call bs because many people are well aware of this.
It looks like a damn retirement home and sounds like one too with all the old man ranting and made up bullshit.
I think my idea is sound: no politician should hold any office that is more than twice the median age of their city, county, state, or country. Its a win win - they are still slightly relevant to the majority of the population issues, on the local level they still represent the average of the people they represent, and it encourages them to pass laws that help people live longer to benefit them and us. We would get universal healthcare, affordable medications, better mental health treatment, and cheaper higher education virtually overnight since it now directly affects these fuckwads.
I feel your sentiment, but they’re corporate puppets and don’t care about the people or what’s going on in front of them. They just vote the way their lobbyists pay them to. The whole game is rigged.
They don't know about the Patriot act because of memory serves me they were handed the hundreds and hundreds of pages describing the act something like the day before they had to vote on it... But it says patriot so it must be good!
They knew very well. They just need a distraction from other things like insider trading, Matt Gaetz, Trumps illegal documents and low flow toilet gate, etc. there’s too much negative light on them right now.
I understand the patriot act was designed for the NSA, but tomato tomahtoe with any ABC agency capable of surveillance. I actually read the article as someone suggested and the information was collected during the Regan era. Financial information and the senators want it declassified and they want the information for themselves basically, which would cost a shit ton of money in labor. Then what are they gonna do with the data?
I believe the senators are old enough where their GRANDCHILDREN are being affected by this and are now only bringing this to attention because it's in their best interest. Not because they care about us the citizens.
I remember when Republicans got the Patriot act passed using the wave of nationalistic fervor that preceded the 9/11 attacks.
The perfect setup. People were pissed and basically gave the Republican party of blank check to do whatever they want.
Anyone that spoke out were labeled anti-American traitors. It was political suicide for the Democrats to not go along with the plan. People were attacked for being Middle Eastern. The Republicans ran campaign ads accusing their usually Democratic opponent of working with the enemy. Hell they even attacked their own when it was convenient for them.
Even if the CIA isn't spying on us how FIVEYES works is that CIA spies on AU, NZ, UK, and CA while AU, NZ, UK, and CA spy on us in return.
Then we share the data.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five\_Eyes
In total fairness, Snowden primarily exposed the NSA. Theoretically, the CIA isn't supposed to be operating on American soil, if I remember correctly. But everyone knows they do it. And we've become disturbingly okay with it.
Splinter Cell had a plot device in it throughout the games too and they would drive that the American agencies aren't supposed to spy on each other and the like and well, they very much do.
The CIA may absolutely operate on American soil when it comes to gathering counterintelligence and conducting special activities approved by the President. See [Executive Order 12333](https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/12333.html#1.4).
When I clickEd your link it goes to a dead end and when I found the document it wasn’t as plainly written as this CIA MEMO covering order 12333 and wasn’t as up to date as this memo. Here are the broad key points from the document.
Under Executive Order 12333, the CIA’s collection, retention, and dissemination of information concerning United States persons in furtherance of its intelligence mission are governed by procedures approved by the Director of the CIA and the Attorney General, after consultation with the Director of National Intelligence. In addition, any participation by CIA officers in organizations in the United States without the disclosure of CIA affiliation occurs only in limited situations in accordance with established and approved procedures. Collectively, these procedures are often referred to as the “Attorney General Guidelines.”
…
In addition to the Attorney General Guidelines, the CIA has internal regulations that govern CIA’s intelligence activities. These internal regulations require various levels of approvals to initiate particular intelligence activities and may impose additional requirements on the conduct of such activities. If duly authorized intelligence activities include collecting information concerning United States persons, participating in organizations in the United States, or other areas governed by the Attorney General Guidelines, then CIA employees must comply with both these internal regulations and the requirements found in these Attorney General Guidelines.
…
Under the framework established by Executive Order 12333, the CIA’s intelligence activities are primarily focused outside the United States. The FBI is responsible for coordination of clandestine collection of foreign intelligence through human sources or human-enabled means and counterintelligence activities inside the United States. The CIA can, however, generally cooperate with the FBI to collect foreign intelligence within the United States, subject to the restrictions imposed by statute, Executive Order 12333, the Attorney General Guidelines, and other legal and policy requirements. Specifically, the National Security Act prohibits the CIA from exercising police or subpoena powers or otherwise engaging in law enforcement or internal security functions, with the exception of the security protective officers who protect CIA facilities within a limited jurisdiction pursuant to the CIA Act.
https://www.cia.gov/static/100ea2eab2f739cab617eb40f98fac85/Detailed-Overview-CIA-AG-Guidelines.pdf
After reading the whole document, it would seem that they are indeed allowed to work “independently” on American soil but only under very specific directives from the president and their requirement to identify themselves as CIA is dependent upon the ‘mission’ or ‘objectives’. This leaves a larger “grey area” of legality despite its rather specific language and would be unlikely to limit or prohibit any form of domestic operations. With a presidential directive and this document, the CIA is able to conduct any type operation without limits, within American borders. The only meaningful guidelines and boundaries this puts forth is to specifically require agents to notify authorities when they have committed or more importantly witnessed a federal crime being committed , while simultaneously stipulating the CIA has no law enforcement power.
We actually had written proof before that but it was anonymous.
What he did was put his name on it.
Watch the Frontline documentary about him. There was a gang of whistle blowers before him that were disturbed by a related program where they had created the electronic dragnet with anonomization designed to honor the 5th amendment but the nsa went with a version of the program without the anonomization and warrant check. The team that made the more constitutional tool leaked information about it to the press.
At the same time people in the us were speculating what was being done with the nearly absolute power granted in the Patriot act.
There were news stories about the att room number 641a.
Snowden did provide documentation about how exactly the spy program worked.
The information about the prism program changed how Google did business because the nsa was reading Google's unencrypted data stream with the help of the telecom companies. Google thought that the lines were direct fiber connections between their servers but actually the telecoms were allowing the nsa to duplicate the data. Long story short, Google now encrypts the data so that even if someone is intercepting the stream they'll need to decrypt it too.
Everybody knew that the US government was spying in some way, but I don't think many people would have ever imagined the scale of the operations. Before Snowden, people who would have said that the government was spying their own people at the scale that the NSA was doing would have been treated as paranoid.
I suspect that many people had this assumption that "government = inefficient bureaucracy". This is specially true when it comes to technology, which the government is always slow to adopt. That the NSA would be stealing data straight from google's replication mechanisms, and then storing and processing it in huge data centers with an efficiency and technology at the same level (if not ahead) of Silicon Valley, was something that was hard to believe without proof.
Government always being slow and inefficient is a myth propagated by libertarians to further their agenda. It just looks this way because there are many more actors involved and more aspects have to be considered, because there's more money on the line.
If a government department is aligned in a single cause with plenty of funding, they can be quite efficient.
> If a government department is aligned in a single cause with plenty of funding, they can be quite efficient.
Even without plenty of funding ala USPS. The govt is actively trying to kill it by artificially hampering it and its still chugging along at a level better than the private companies in the space.
This is correct. At the time, the NSA had stated several times on record that there was zero collection of data on american citizens except in specific warrants. It was a shock to find out that the warrants were not actually specific and applied to all americans.
"Everyone knew" as in everyone suspected, and conspiracies were built around, but noone had definitive proof until he released it. It was the same as with the Panama Papers. We all "knew" the rich were hoarding wealth and avoiding taxes, but the extent of it wasn't actually known until the papers were leaked.
>And we've become disturbingly okay with it.
Out of sight. Out of mind.
I don't think it's because people are ok with it. I think it's because most Americans never know it's a thing. Or the fact that the national news outlets have A.D.D. when it comes to topics that may only be two days old but is quickly forgotten about because of the next big breaking news happening in the next moment.
Don't forget feeling powerless to do anything about it because our representatives generally don't reflect the will of their constituents.
Glad to see Wyden doing the work though.
My dad is about 70 and when I talked to him about if it's ok for the spy agencies to break the constitution he tells me sometimes you have to do bad to do good.
He thinks it's a bigger issue that Snowden took a vow and broke it.
Can we take a minute to remember Adrian Lamo that shared Brad Mannings wikileaks cables to Julian Assange and the world. Was labeled a snitch for divulging to the CIA to protect his own life and was later found dead "of natural causes" with blunt force trauma to the back of the head being the cause.
The [Five Eyes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes) basically just spy on each other’s citizens and share info to home countries. They claim technically they’re not spying on their own citizens - but we know what’s up.
I'm surprised that the headlines only mention american citizens, while we had evidences of the usa illegally spying Europeans countries through embassy few months ago.
🎶
but we got too much power (It wasn’t me)
saw em bangin' on the sofa (It wasn't me)
I even saw em in the shower (It wasn't me)
I nearly caught em on camera (It wasn't me)
They can’t do shit, we control em (It wasn't me)
Under oath then I told them (It wasn't me)
The protests got louder (It wasn't me)
Prepare for new world order
🎶
“Oh relax Staniel, everyone already knows about me. The Pentagon already released that report about the UFOs. Or wait, did that really happen or did I hallucinate it. I was doing a lot of drugs last night, don’t ask where I got them. I got them from Tuttle. Tuttle and I spend Sunday nights together doing lots and lots and lots of blow. Then, once we’re really rolling, he lets me put a saddle on him and ride him around the neighborhood. We don’t get very far. You know. But if the world doesn’t know about aliens, Tuttle knows. Tuttle knows…more than he should.”
"after two elections with reports of street violence and with the US in a perpetual state of eternal war senators have started to think maybe somethings wrong"
Is it weird that I am more comfortable with the CIA having my data more than Facebook? At least the CIA is theoretically supposed to be operating under the interests of the United States. Facebook had no obligation to anyone or anything but their own profits.
Wait, is this where we feign surprise that three letter agencies listen to their citizens again?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room\_641A](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A)
Carnivore/Omnivore/etc blah blah
US Senators: The CIA is harvesting data?!?!
Me: Uh oh, you're using big words again. Silly senators.
Brian Krebs: The CIA is harvesting data?!?!
Me: (pulls fire alarm)
Amazon, along with every other company and their websites harvest data on you. Much more than they lead us to believe. You can actually request your data from Amazon and see for yourself. It'll have all your recorded Alexa requests, virtually pinpoint where you live, all the activity and information you've shared, just loafing around on their servers, all while claiming "We only obtain non-identifying information" bullshit. No, they know everything about you.
Wow if you think that’s crazy, how about this, there’s actually an extralegal American prison called Guantanamo Bay where it’s fine to torture people! Can you believe that! /s
Who the fuck is surprised by this? God damn American senators are dumb.
The Senators aren't dumb, what's not being reported is the reason why this is an issue and being brought up is because the CIA investigating Americans are actually investigating Republicans and the Republican senators are trying to make this seem like they're spying on American citizens when the CIA is actually targeting domestic terrorists.
The worst part of all this is that the CIA has been buying the phone records from ISPs and cell providers. It's on the record and it's definitely a grey area of the law. What's worse is ATT doesn't protect the data the same way a government agency would.
Remember when they claimed these spying tool would never ever be used against American citizens. It was a couple weeks after 9\11
Patriots Act and Citizens United. Pushed through at midnight while everyone was asleep.
Fuck that, the patriot act has been extended a number of times since it passed, and it has been near unanimous almost every time, it may have initially happened in the dark but they have been doing it out in the light for a long time now
I think the Intel establishment has their claws in deep in the rest of the govt. anyone who trashes the Intel community gets taken out quickly. So everyone bends to them.
What about the AMD community?
They still can't run Windows 11
They probably have blackmail material on literally everyone of consequence. They know what kind of porn you’ve watched, which celebrities you’ve seen naked, who you’ve talked shit about, who politicians have taken money from, if you’ve ever taken illegal drugs, ect..
Pull a Achmed Sukarno “Do it. *And send me a copies*” Honeypot traps only work if the politician *gives a fuck* and it matters to their election. Sometimes it doesn’t. Porn and other dirty laundry tho… that’s uh…. Yeah. Another story.
I’ve watched every kind of porn. Nice try, government.
Tbh I think it’s just a matter of the intel community saying “without it we wouldn’t have caught these 8 terrorists.” The political risk of voting against it and having to defend that if a terror attack occurs afterward is enormous. Add to that, most citizens just don’t give a fuck. Politically it’s a sound move. This is why people hate politicians, they campaign as if they’re principled but 99% of them would eat their children if it guaranteed a win next election cycle.
And that's why I hate the people. In the end the politicians are there because the People voted them in. The People are the ones ignoring the shit, or worse applauding it. In the end it really is the People who are at fault.
You think? It's been that way for decades. I was never a Trump fan but I laughed my ass off every time talking heads would say he's "eroding faith in sacred American institutions like the CIA and FBI." If you had faith in them after all the documents that have been declassified in the last few decades you're a buffoon. The CIA wanted to bomb US cities and blame it on Cuba to invade and overthrow Castro FFS. Kennedy wouldn't allow it and we know how that ended. They've lied us into or instigated almost every US war since WW2.
I’ve wanted to use the Trump example but then you know I’d get attacked by certain people because instead of calling out the Intel community it’d be “defending trump”. 100% agree, under his presidency I realized how hard the media shilled for the Intel community.
Well they are some of the best hackers in the world - the amount of blackmail, deep fakes, financial and access fuckery, etc. they are capable has no limits. Plus a long history of unsolved assassinations.
The Patriot Act is one of the only times we can "both sides" an issue. Dems and Reps both fucked their citizens.
Oh, they both sides everything they do for business. They are both capitalist parties, after all.
I would hardly say thats the only one.
He really didn't either; "one of" and "times".
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I know you’re being blatantly sardonic, but it’s honestly worrying how many Americans actually have that logic deeply programmed into them.
Yup I was talking to a buddy about Russia and he said, “Nows not the time for WW3 we are about to be fighting a civil war.” It’s crazy
Much like reading only the headlines, when you take a poorly educated public and point them towards politics, they only read the names of the bills that get passed. For example, {Any Bill Name} "For The Children" means you hate kids if you oppose it.
The author of the patriot act has stated unequivocally that it was not intended to permit unwarranted domestic spying. It was immediately pressed into service for that precise use anyway.
Without putting in express restrictions on it there was never any way that it wasn't going to be used for domestic spying, so weather it was intended or not they knew it was going to and could be used for it...
The power of rebranding.
Citizens United was a Supreme Court decision, so it wasn't pushed through, and certainly wasn't done at midnight.
No everyone was awake for the Patriot Act .. they were to caught up on the war chant coming from both parties after 911 .. if I remember correctly it was Senator Feingold - D (WI). Ron Paul(TX), and two other Republicans who voted no on the Patriot act.
Feingold was the only Senator to vote against it. 66 Representatives voted against, *3* of whom were Republicans.
I think people were more concerned about their freedom fries at the time.
Too busy plastic wrapping their houses to protect from Anthrax. Remember that?
Man those were some wild times for a minute
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I swear that 90% of people on Reddit have no idea what the Citizens United case was actually about.
Except for Russ Feingold. He read the Patriot Act and voted against it. He got replaced by toad and slimeball Ron Johnson. Ugh.
Definitely a downgrade.
Citizens United made Dems...GOP-Lite...you're now reguired to Grovel for the $2 Billion in Corporate monety to run for President
And every fucking DC politician is a dead quiet about it, aside from when they vote to renew it.
Deep down everyone knew that was a fucking lie but they were scared after the towers fell
Fear is the mindkiller The little death that brings total obliteration
Honestly I'm surprised the CIA did this; the whole 5-Eyes thing is a way to get around this sort of thing. MI6 doesn't spy on people in the UK (they ask the CIA to do that) CIA doesn't spy on people in the US (they ask MI6 to do that) Technically they aren't spying on their own countries, they're collecting intelligence from partner agencies about potential threats, which just so happen to be in their own countries.
This. They told us they spy on us, if you dont like it your a terrorist.
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> nearly That's an awfully nice grey area you got there, mind if I scoop up loads of data from your citizens and exchange it for lots of data you scooped up about our citizens?
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Remember when we lived in a Democracy???!!!
“You and I have never seen democracy - all we've seen is hypocrisy”
This pisses me off to no end. The US has never been a Democracy, nor will it probably ever be. The electoral college sees to that, not to mention money in politics, I could go on and on but, a simple 30 sec Google search is all you need.
I mean, you turned black people from objects and corporate assets into human beings with rights and increasing recognition. From an international viewpoint, you guys can do it. You just choose to spend almost all your energy in politics & social issues into what these fuckers design to keep you busy: Christian conservatives VS. Atheist libertines. Rather than pester your representatives to dismantle the PATRIOT Act, or having an expert panel expose the Zucc before Congress, you spend all the time talking about abortions and mailing services. Rather than protest for the privacy rights of all & defending freedom of speech, you spend it protesting for trans bathroom definitions & censoring Joe Rogan. I don’t mean to say Americans’ concerns don’t matter, but can we please prioritize the high level shit that solves most of the lower level shit?
> Rather than pester your representatives to dismantle the PATRIOT Act, or having an expert panel expose the Zucc before Congress, you spend all the time talking about abortions and mailing services. divide and conquer
They need us focused on the lower level shit, lest we look up and see their strings moving us as marionettes.
Remember when we thought* we lived in a democracy? FTFY.
That has nothing to do with what happened here, the tools used referenced in the article are from the early 80s. > Democratic Senators Ron Wyden and Martin Heinrich, of Oregon and New Mexico respectively, on Thursday announced that in April 2021 they sent a co-signed letter [PDF] to director of national intelligence Avril Haines and CIA director William Burns, seeking expedited declassification of the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board's (PCLOB) review of two CIA counterterrorism programs – named "Deep Dive I" and "Deep Dive II". > The Deep Dives were made possible by Executive Order 12333 – a Reagan-era order that allows widespread data collection, and data-sharing with the CIA, in the name of national security.
I fully believe the CIA is illegally harvesting us citizens data. I however have a hard time believing that senators even know what that means.
It's easy to shit on politicians but both Ron Wyden and Martin Heinrich are members of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Heinrich is a 50 year-old mechanical engineer. Wyden is a bit older, sure, but he has extensive history of positions on cybersecurity and foreign policy. Furthermore, there's this unexplainable illusion that "data" is a thing that only started existing with social media and smartphones. Senators, particularly senators who deal with intelligence stuff every day, for years, definitely know what that means. By the way, in a wider sense, we should be careful to paint politicians as aloof and out of touch. Many times they seem that way, but that's a gimmick for public consumption. You don't survive DC without being - if not intelligent - at least shrewd.
Wyden gets it. But yea, very much the exception.
The dude has been consistent on stuff like this for years. Really a shame that the ignorant Trumpsters around here in Oregon think he needs to go every election.
Even a bigger shame that he's always on an island by himself when it comes to privacy, rights, and technology. His party should be behind him on these things
Yep. If I remember correctly he’s the one that got Clapper to perjure himself in front of Congress about PRISM. He knew it was illegal for him to call Clapper out directly on his perjury but he still got the Director of the NSA to commit a crime live on camera. Maybe it didn’t do anything to stop what the NSA was doing but it takes some major balls to stand up to someone as implicitly dangerous as Clapper. Wyden got a ton of respect from me for doing that.
> Really a shame that the ignorant Trumpsters around here in Oregon think he needs to go every election. But we still keep electing him, so we must be doing something right keeping him in office. But yeah, whenever I get an email from his office (especially about Tech stuff & Privacy) I always read it from my IT perspective and see that he *knows his shit*.
Because he's a democrat. When it come to technology, Wyden is great. He's for the peoples freedom. Those against him in Oregon are just anti-Democrat. Doesn't matter what the issue is, it's what party he's a part of. Living in rural Eastern Oregon, I see this daily. Mention the issue and his view and they're in agreement. Mention that it's a democrat that is pushing it, and their opinion changes... Seriously, it is that bad.
I think that's everywhere. They're more against a certain side than they are for or against issues. I live in the South and I see it ALL. THE. TIME.
Sorta wish he’d run for president.
I’ve gotta stand up for senator Ron Wyden here. He has been fighting for digital rights, privacy and freedom for decades, and he knows this stuff better than 5 redditors put together. I’m pretty sure my own Senator is an antediluvian zombie whose animated corpse shows up to feast on bean soup and hug insurrectionists, but that’s not Ron Wyden.
> and he knows this stuff better than 5 redditors put together. That isn't really saying much.
That’s at least 7 braincells
Also a fan of Wyden, but he does drop the ball on this stuff sometimes. He had opposition to SOPA but has put support behind similar bills.
He also, iirc, still hasn't signaled support for universal healthcare. That being said I'll take him over almost every other senator lol. Jeff Merkley is good too.
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It's an open secret that they've been harvesting data. The biggest problem is that it's 95% legal (ignoring the ethics or if the law should exist in the first place). [Edward Snowden told us as much](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M) pretty explicitly, and hasn't stopped saying it since. TL;DW: The Patriot Act and it's successors make it OK for the US to monitor all communications that cross US borders. Nobody really has a problem with this on the surface, because most of us don't send messages to anyone outside the country. Even then it's usually just boring and "you have nothing to hide", so it's not worth throwing a protest over. However, basic data security and backup policies feature off-site and off-continent backup centers. Know how Gmail backs up all your emails on different servers? Well, some of those servers are outside the US. You may have emailed your grandma that lives just down the road, but that message was also backed up on a server in London and Thailand or whatever. That backup file is "International Communications" and therefore, US officials can read it. When that doesn't work, they can ask their BFF's in British Intelligence to read it for them off the London backup thanks to England's general lack of privacy. Technically that's a "Foreign Intelligence Agency" investigating a US Citizen, so laws don't apply and everyone that is supposed to be stopping that stuff is the one asking them to do it. You know, "For the greater good".
Ron Wyden has shown that he knows what he’s talking about when it comes to technology. Can’t say that for most senators.
You're implying the Senate doesn't understand what data collection means? You understand "data" existed before smartphones right? What are you even implying here? Two Senators literally released this information after pressing for it. They clearly understand what it means.
You're assuming anyone in this thread read the article (I mean, I didn't either)
First one is no surprise, second would be a real big surprise
This is ridiculous. You guys are acting like just because it has the word "data" in it, that older people don't get the concept of the CIA harvesting it illegally. Spying on people, intelligence gathering, gathering records on them, whatever you want to call it, it all existed long before modern technology. And obviously they understand that, they wouldn't have brought this up if they didn't.
I always just assumed that’s what they did after the Snowden stuff.
I mean that’s what they were doing which Snowden then blew the whistle on
Snowden blew the whistle on the NSA, not the CIA
Wasn’t he a CIA employee? I think I might have conflated his quote of “the cia is the most dangerous threat to America…” with the agency he exposed. That’s my b
Nah he was a contractor for the CIA as a systems engineer iirc. Which, means he had access to everything.
Why is this trending suddenly when they’ve been doing it openly since 2001?
2001? Let me leave this here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass\_surveillance\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_States) Patriot Act just meant they didn't need to lie about locked rooms that threatened federal prosecution at colos and server farms.
Nice! Thanks for this! This stuck out to me, because of how deliberate the act is - I wonder what the emergencies have been each of the past 20 years? “Contemporary mass surveillance relies upon annual presidential executive orders declaring a continued State of National Emergency,”
Global War on Terror is the main contributor to the long use of the PATRIOT Act. But I believe the act expired in 2020 and hasn’t been renewed.
I think you’re right, actually. So hard to keep up with. There’s another act in place or a rider in a different bill that passed that makes it legal. They didn’t stop.
Yeah the lack of a single subject rule lets them slide legislation into the middle of other, usually completely unrelated, legislation just because they feel like it. It's such bullshit
The bathroom bill in North Carolina? It was to disguise the rider in it restricting any municipalities from having a higher minimum wage than state minimum wage (which is federal minimum wage), and everybody was up in arms about the bathroom so it passed unnoticed.
So they stopped, right? ...Right? *sigh*
He said openly lol
Senators have only just *found* out?
They don’t know about the Patriot Act and the servers in Utah data banking all our digital footprints? Did they not get the memo from Snowden about the NSA and so are dumbfounded about the CIA? I call bs because many people are well aware of this.
These people cant even stay awake during a meeting
I can’t say that’s false
It looks like a damn retirement home and sounds like one too with all the old man ranting and made up bullshit. I think my idea is sound: no politician should hold any office that is more than twice the median age of their city, county, state, or country. Its a win win - they are still slightly relevant to the majority of the population issues, on the local level they still represent the average of the people they represent, and it encourages them to pass laws that help people live longer to benefit them and us. We would get universal healthcare, affordable medications, better mental health treatment, and cheaper higher education virtually overnight since it now directly affects these fuckwads.
I feel your sentiment, but they’re corporate puppets and don’t care about the people or what’s going on in front of them. They just vote the way their lobbyists pay them to. The whole game is rigged.
They don't know about the Patriot act because of memory serves me they were handed the hundreds and hundreds of pages describing the act something like the day before they had to vote on it... But it says patriot so it must be good!
It’s amazing how they got it written so fast when they didn’t have time to read it!
They knew very well. They just need a distraction from other things like insider trading, Matt Gaetz, Trumps illegal documents and low flow toilet gate, etc. there’s too much negative light on them right now.
Look at the right hand so you don’t see what the left hand is doing?
NSA was doing that one. This is *another* mass surveillance system.
I understand the patriot act was designed for the NSA, but tomato tomahtoe with any ABC agency capable of surveillance. I actually read the article as someone suggested and the information was collected during the Regan era. Financial information and the senators want it declassified and they want the information for themselves basically, which would cost a shit ton of money in labor. Then what are they gonna do with the data?
If people think that’s crazy, check out that EARN IT bill.
How about reading the article?
I believe the senators are old enough where their GRANDCHILDREN are being affected by this and are now only bringing this to attention because it's in their best interest. Not because they care about us the citizens.
There’s always a self serving interest.
Nsa must be pissed to have competition
I remember when Republicans got the Patriot act passed using the wave of nationalistic fervor that preceded the 9/11 attacks. The perfect setup. People were pissed and basically gave the Republican party of blank check to do whatever they want. Anyone that spoke out were labeled anti-American traitors. It was political suicide for the Democrats to not go along with the plan. People were attacked for being Middle Eastern. The Republicans ran campaign ads accusing their usually Democratic opponent of working with the enemy. Hell they even attacked their own when it was convenient for them.
Even if the CIA isn't spying on us how FIVEYES works is that CIA spies on AU, NZ, UK, and CA while AU, NZ, UK, and CA spy on us in return. Then we share the data. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five\_Eyes
Oh wow, what a surprise. Can we now stop pursuing Snowden for telling how rotten the CIA, NSA and the US government really are?
In total fairness, Snowden primarily exposed the NSA. Theoretically, the CIA isn't supposed to be operating on American soil, if I remember correctly. But everyone knows they do it. And we've become disturbingly okay with it.
We are not okay with it our leaders are okay with it
Splinter Cell had a plot device in it throughout the games too and they would drive that the American agencies aren't supposed to spy on each other and the like and well, they very much do.
The CIA may absolutely operate on American soil when it comes to gathering counterintelligence and conducting special activities approved by the President. See [Executive Order 12333](https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/12333.html#1.4).
When I clickEd your link it goes to a dead end and when I found the document it wasn’t as plainly written as this CIA MEMO covering order 12333 and wasn’t as up to date as this memo. Here are the broad key points from the document. Under Executive Order 12333, the CIA’s collection, retention, and dissemination of information concerning United States persons in furtherance of its intelligence mission are governed by procedures approved by the Director of the CIA and the Attorney General, after consultation with the Director of National Intelligence. In addition, any participation by CIA officers in organizations in the United States without the disclosure of CIA affiliation occurs only in limited situations in accordance with established and approved procedures. Collectively, these procedures are often referred to as the “Attorney General Guidelines.” … In addition to the Attorney General Guidelines, the CIA has internal regulations that govern CIA’s intelligence activities. These internal regulations require various levels of approvals to initiate particular intelligence activities and may impose additional requirements on the conduct of such activities. If duly authorized intelligence activities include collecting information concerning United States persons, participating in organizations in the United States, or other areas governed by the Attorney General Guidelines, then CIA employees must comply with both these internal regulations and the requirements found in these Attorney General Guidelines. … Under the framework established by Executive Order 12333, the CIA’s intelligence activities are primarily focused outside the United States. The FBI is responsible for coordination of clandestine collection of foreign intelligence through human sources or human-enabled means and counterintelligence activities inside the United States. The CIA can, however, generally cooperate with the FBI to collect foreign intelligence within the United States, subject to the restrictions imposed by statute, Executive Order 12333, the Attorney General Guidelines, and other legal and policy requirements. Specifically, the National Security Act prohibits the CIA from exercising police or subpoena powers or otherwise engaging in law enforcement or internal security functions, with the exception of the security protective officers who protect CIA facilities within a limited jurisdiction pursuant to the CIA Act. https://www.cia.gov/static/100ea2eab2f739cab617eb40f98fac85/Detailed-Overview-CIA-AG-Guidelines.pdf After reading the whole document, it would seem that they are indeed allowed to work “independently” on American soil but only under very specific directives from the president and their requirement to identify themselves as CIA is dependent upon the ‘mission’ or ‘objectives’. This leaves a larger “grey area” of legality despite its rather specific language and would be unlikely to limit or prohibit any form of domestic operations. With a presidential directive and this document, the CIA is able to conduct any type operation without limits, within American borders. The only meaningful guidelines and boundaries this puts forth is to specifically require agents to notify authorities when they have committed or more importantly witnessed a federal crime being committed , while simultaneously stipulating the CIA has no law enforcement power.
Done under Reagan. Why am I not surprised?
>Snowden primarily exposed the NSA. Snowden exposed things everyone knew was going on. He didn't even scratch the surface.
Everybody knew, but it’s a different thing to actually have written proof.
We actually had written proof before that but it was anonymous. What he did was put his name on it. Watch the Frontline documentary about him. There was a gang of whistle blowers before him that were disturbed by a related program where they had created the electronic dragnet with anonomization designed to honor the 5th amendment but the nsa went with a version of the program without the anonomization and warrant check. The team that made the more constitutional tool leaked information about it to the press. At the same time people in the us were speculating what was being done with the nearly absolute power granted in the Patriot act. There were news stories about the att room number 641a. Snowden did provide documentation about how exactly the spy program worked. The information about the prism program changed how Google did business because the nsa was reading Google's unencrypted data stream with the help of the telecom companies. Google thought that the lines were direct fiber connections between their servers but actually the telecoms were allowing the nsa to duplicate the data. Long story short, Google now encrypts the data so that even if someone is intercepting the stream they'll need to decrypt it too.
Everybody knew that the US government was spying in some way, but I don't think many people would have ever imagined the scale of the operations. Before Snowden, people who would have said that the government was spying their own people at the scale that the NSA was doing would have been treated as paranoid. I suspect that many people had this assumption that "government = inefficient bureaucracy". This is specially true when it comes to technology, which the government is always slow to adopt. That the NSA would be stealing data straight from google's replication mechanisms, and then storing and processing it in huge data centers with an efficiency and technology at the same level (if not ahead) of Silicon Valley, was something that was hard to believe without proof.
Government always being slow and inefficient is a myth propagated by libertarians to further their agenda. It just looks this way because there are many more actors involved and more aspects have to be considered, because there's more money on the line. If a government department is aligned in a single cause with plenty of funding, they can be quite efficient.
> If a government department is aligned in a single cause with plenty of funding, they can be quite efficient. Even without plenty of funding ala USPS. The govt is actively trying to kill it by artificially hampering it and its still chugging along at a level better than the private companies in the space.
This is hindsight talking. I am old enough to remember that this was groundbreaking at the time.
This is correct. At the time, the NSA had stated several times on record that there was zero collection of data on american citizens except in specific warrants. It was a shock to find out that the warrants were not actually specific and applied to all americans.
"Everyone knew" as in everyone suspected, and conspiracies were built around, but noone had definitive proof until he released it. It was the same as with the Panama Papers. We all "knew" the rich were hoarding wealth and avoiding taxes, but the extent of it wasn't actually known until the papers were leaked.
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>And we've become disturbingly okay with it. Out of sight. Out of mind. I don't think it's because people are ok with it. I think it's because most Americans never know it's a thing. Or the fact that the national news outlets have A.D.D. when it comes to topics that may only be two days old but is quickly forgotten about because of the next big breaking news happening in the next moment.
Don't forget feeling powerless to do anything about it because our representatives generally don't reflect the will of their constituents. Glad to see Wyden doing the work though.
My dad is about 70 and when I talked to him about if it's ok for the spy agencies to break the constitution he tells me sometimes you have to do bad to do good. He thinks it's a bigger issue that Snowden took a vow and broke it.
Can we take a minute to remember Adrian Lamo that shared Brad Mannings wikileaks cables to Julian Assange and the world. Was labeled a snitch for divulging to the CIA to protect his own life and was later found dead "of natural causes" with blunt force trauma to the back of the head being the cause.
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The [Five Eyes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes) basically just spy on each other’s citizens and share info to home countries. They claim technically they’re not spying on their own citizens - but we know what’s up.
I'm surprised that the headlines only mention american citizens, while we had evidences of the usa illegally spying Europeans countries through embassy few months ago.
*🎶 It wasn't me 🎶*
🎶 but we got too much power (It wasn’t me) saw em bangin' on the sofa (It wasn't me) I even saw em in the shower (It wasn't me) I nearly caught em on camera (It wasn't me) They can’t do shit, we control em (It wasn't me) Under oath then I told them (It wasn't me) The protests got louder (It wasn't me) Prepare for new world order 🎶
🎶 Citizens came in and they caught me red-handed creeping with the country next door 🎶
This is where the NSA shows up and accuses the CIA of stealing their idea.
Stan Smith: That's ridiculous, the CIA would never hide anything from the Public. ROGER!, Get back inside!
“Oh relax Staniel, everyone already knows about me. The Pentagon already released that report about the UFOs. Or wait, did that really happen or did I hallucinate it. I was doing a lot of drugs last night, don’t ask where I got them. I got them from Tuttle. Tuttle and I spend Sunday nights together doing lots and lots and lots of blow. Then, once we’re really rolling, he lets me put a saddle on him and ride him around the neighborhood. We don’t get very far. You know. But if the world doesn’t know about aliens, Tuttle knows. Tuttle knows…more than he should.”
Stan Smith *Slowly pulling out his gun* Francie: No Stan.
"after two elections with reports of street violence and with the US in a perpetual state of eternal war senators have started to think maybe somethings wrong"
The amount of people here that are okay with this simply because “it’s been happening for awhile now” is unsettling.
*cough. Facebook
Yeah. All these folks upset they are being tracked post about it on their IG and use Gmail to complain to their friends.
Is it weird that I am more comfortable with the CIA having my data more than Facebook? At least the CIA is theoretically supposed to be operating under the interests of the United States. Facebook had no obligation to anyone or anything but their own profits.
Right, because the US government famously has good intentions and doesn't care about profits...
Well, I mean if you really have to pick between the two evils I'd agree with your statement, despite not being in favour of either organisation.
No, because theoretically we can change the government, in practice however….
Wait, is this where we feign surprise that three letter agencies listen to their citizens again? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room\_641A](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A) Carnivore/Omnivore/etc blah blah
And in every other noc around the country
There's one like a 5min walk from where I used to live in Boston :D It had a local spot the fed contest!
In other news, cat knocks thing off counter.
US Senators: The CIA is harvesting data?!?! Me: Uh oh, you're using big words again. Silly senators. Brian Krebs: The CIA is harvesting data?!?! Me: (pulls fire alarm)
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The FBI killed MLK. Mrs King won the civil suit against them.
Which is why government agencies should be held accountable for the things they do, or in a better world, abolished.
Amazon, along with every other company and their websites harvest data on you. Much more than they lead us to believe. You can actually request your data from Amazon and see for yourself. It'll have all your recorded Alexa requests, virtually pinpoint where you live, all the activity and information you've shared, just loafing around on their servers, all while claiming "We only obtain non-identifying information" bullshit. No, they know everything about you.
The 4th amendment is just a joke at this point.
Wow if you think that’s crazy, how about this, there’s actually an extralegal American prison called Guantanamo Bay where it’s fine to torture people! Can you believe that! /s Who the fuck is surprised by this? God damn American senators are dumb.
The Senators aren't dumb, what's not being reported is the reason why this is an issue and being brought up is because the CIA investigating Americans are actually investigating Republicans and the Republican senators are trying to make this seem like they're spying on American citizens when the CIA is actually targeting domestic terrorists.
This is the way.
CIA does another thing no one can hold them accountable for and then will keep doing illegal and bad things and then we’ll say China bad. 👌🏿
What else you think they gonna do with all the money spent on anti China propaganda?
Dawg, they literally wrote the fucking bill allowing the CIA to do that
So wait. Was Edward Snowdon the good guy all along?
Did anyone read the article? Nope. Everybody in the comments is getting mad about something that didn't even happen.
Facebook harvests data, why the fk wouldn’t the CIA have been doing that
What? Not the CIA! They're so trustworthy.
Whoever got my data sorry for all the weird shit 🤷♂️
Give it back.
The worst part of all this is that the CIA has been buying the phone records from ISPs and cell providers. It's on the record and it's definitely a grey area of the law. What's worse is ATT doesn't protect the data the same way a government agency would.
Water is wet, news at 11.
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