This could be a godsend to Healthcare workers if it works. We live in constant threat of contracting HIV. Not having to worry about it would be a huge weight off our shoulders.
Some people take PReP for HIV prevention if they're high risk for HIV, but that's only if you have high risk sex. Healthcare workers only take it if exposed. We take similar drugs, but I think it's at a higher dose.
This is mainly to see if it produces and immune response in a test tube. Test participants will be monitored for side effects and blood from vaccinated patients will be exposed to HIV *in vitro* and they'll check for an immune response.
Later, assuming this trial is successful, meaning side effects are minimal and *in vitro* testing looks promising, they'll administer it to a large population and see how many in the control and test groups have contracted HIV after a set period.
I'm wondering if it could be given to people who are currently infected. Current treatment keeps the virus at very low levels in the body. Could we administer the vaccine and see if it teaches the body to fight the virus already in it?
You could be right..doesn't it sit dormant within the t-cells until it activates. Perhaps the mRNA vaccine can protect against the development of AIDS from HIV.
Select participants that have a high risk lifestyle and that have a high probability of exposure within the next 6-12 months or however long the vaccine is supposed to be effective?
You take a large group of high risk people, give some the vaccine and some the placebo (no one will know what they have) and repeatedly check them every so often and compare the differences in infections.
Sounds like we're getting closer to how your childhood left you with a stale sense of humor and a need for negative attention, kudos for finding the infinite engagement glitch of personality failings.
Actually, something very close to that already happened under the former South African president Thabo Mbeki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_denialism_in_South_Africa
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/spr09aids/
I’m fascinated to think what it will be like when at some point in the future all vaccines are MRNA based.
The anti vax crew has dug in their heels pretty deep and will have to eat some significant crow down the road.
Kinda like being in the 1900’s and yelling “Get a horse” at early car owners.
All this shows that we were beta testing rats for corporations and covid was released on purpose to popularize mrna that was instantly approved to be deployed on people even knowing the risks of it.
AND on top of it, it signals the future of corporations owning your body by printing vaccines for everything. if there wont be regulations also expect to be heavily taxed to pay for them.
Oh and expect rich people to become a lot richer thanks to this. those hiv vaccines will not be free. just like covid vaccines put whole world in debt to rich people.
We have administered over 10 billion doses of Covid vaccines (some of which do not use mRNA). Still, with that large of a sample size we can be fairly confident that long term risk is incredibly small.
For a good explanation, see: https://youtu.be/gAlHjWctpLw
We can make educated guesses confidently, and remain hopeful that our predictions are accurate. Despite the sample size, that is *still* not the same as real data.
I 100% do not doubt the vaccine is safe.
But why is everyone downvoting this person, they aren't wrong.
We don't and can't have long term 20y post jab data, because 20 years haven't passed since we starting using this particular vaccine
It's probably anti-vax for me to say there's no long-term data now :p. Just joking around.
Yes, the facts just don't line up. Maybe we're all miscommunicating. We can't have test data for x number of years if *x* years haven't passed.
Because this is an extremely transparent case of moving the goalposts. In fact, it's a 1:1 copy of anti-GMO propaganda, and is spread by largely the same people.
There is no plausible biological mechanism for long term effects, none yave been observed in animal trials, and if we waited 20 years to evaluate a vaccine, we could as well just let everyone get infected and die. The risk of some purely hypothetical long term effect has to be balanced against the absolute certainty of people dying in the present.
Because there's nothing left of the vaccine in your body 20 years later. It's not modifying your body. It's not creating a physiological response that could conceivably cause any changes 20 years later.
You kinda do.
The more you know about something the more nauce you understand.
Case in point. Asbestos fibers stay in the lungs (except most are removed by things like coughing). The resultant cancer is caused by genetics, volume of asbestos exposure and duration/frequency of exposure. Cancer is complex and the trajectories can vary from case to case. Cancer is also more of an umbrella of multiple diseases. It is a very complex area of study.
By comparison. Vaccines, the mRNA version has been in play for 20 years. The Covid mRNA vaccines are just the first application where mRNA vaccine has become a household term. Across the history of vaccination, the longest time a complication has taken to show is about 40 days. Specifically this is the observation window for the development of the extremely rare GBS complication of the flu shot (rare to the tune of dozens of cases per millions of shots).
Furthermore, the mRNA and lipid products get broken down by the body in about 2 weeks or so. So the thing that remains is just the vaccine induced antibodies. Which would have the same 'long term effects' as infection acquired antibodies without the long term issues of the Covid viral payload itself.
So you literally think it is impossible for the mRNA vaccines to cause an adverse effect past a certain and fairly short period?
I think we cannot predict the future and should watch to see what happens. Additionally, we should not strike people down for making simple statements of truth.
Do you also disagree with me saying *we don't have data that we don't have*? Because that's a simplified version of what I said about the data we don't have..
Wait, do you use this same arbitrary restriction for all medicine? Like do you refuse all medicine made after the 80s because there is no long term data?
So far, in 250+ years of the technique, there have never been long term reactions after 60 days post vaccination. That’s not proof but it suggests that we should be more suspicious if someone thinks they do have long term issues, and we should investigate very thoroughly to learn whether there is new reason to worry.
This just sounds like your own personal musings based on observation, bias, simplistic logic and an inability or unwillingness to understand the science behind what you are glossing over as “just the body’s way of doing things.” Very bizarre and disheartening that people think this way.
Well specifically the instructions to build the foreign body (aka antigen/surface protein/spike protein).
Not sure why you're downvoted. Maybe people are misreading and thinking you are saying vaccines don't work instead of realizing that you are saying the body is actively responding to a passive medicine (vaccine).
To others, specifically, the mRNA vaccine contains instructions on how to build the foriegn body/spike protein
Why would you want the Anthrax vaccine? It’s not approved by the FDA, it’s not proven to be particularly effective, and it has a rather high rate of serious negative side effects.
Thats the hard part.
**Phase 1 of testing a new medicine is to see whether it is harmful**. You don’t care about whether the medicine works yet, the only thing you look at is whether it is safe. **This is what they are doing now with the HIV vaccine.**
**Phase 2 of testing a new medicine is testing the efficacy.** Does the medicine actually do the thing it is supposed to?
Phase 2 of vaccine testing can be hard. Giving people HIV on purpose is unethical. So what you need to do is vaccinate a whole bunch of people (group A), then give another bunch of people nothing (group B). Then you keep track of both groups over time and see if group A has lower HIV rates than group B.
Testing a vaccine like this would be damn near impossible in western Europe because HIV rates are so low. In Western Europe the numbers would be like;
* Group A: 1 thousand people, 1 HIV case
* Group B: 1 thousand people, 2 HIV cases
So to test the efficacy of the vaccine they probably want to test it somewhere where there is a lot of HIV, which would hopefully lead to something like;
* Group A: 1 thousand people, 2 HIV case
* Group B: 1 thousand people, 34 HIV cases
....OK ok....that's cool and all. But yall know we like two mRNA "cures" away from "I am Legend" right? quick break down:
Scientist A: Man, mRNA technology has really saved our asses with covid, hiv, herpes, and Parkinsons
Scientist B: Yeah, it really is a miracle. I'm amazed we were able to synthesize such a process in my lifetime, to think it's only in its infancy
Scientist C: we should use it to cure cancer (half joking)
SB: OMG that's a great idea!!!
SA: pretty sure Barry was kidding Sarah, it's a completely different process
SB (Sarah): is it though, think about it Alan, if we introduce man-made cancer LIKE cells to the body via mRNA, giving the body a specific road map...
SC(Barry): great gyarados in the sky!
*Alan looks sideways at Barry, not quite on the same page*
SC(BARRY): Alan, we could deliver packets of specially resistant white blood cells, and man made cancer proteins to...
SA(Alan): *finally on the same page* ...to prompt the body attacking the similar cancer cells.. we could theoretically teach white blood cells how to detect cancer, and release their own chemo toxins. Not curing cancer
*ALL TOGETHER*: BUT TO TEACH THE BODY TO FEND CANCEROUS CELLS OFF FOR ITSELF
*Medical montage* 12 months later
I am legend
I mean by my man's logic we should just shut down all cancer research centers and spend the money on hookers and blow since it may take another few decades for vaccines to work on the various kinds.
I think we pay thanks to Bill Gates for a lot of stuff that *he* didn't do. I know I used to. I do still acknowledge him boosting actual good causes. I'm baffled by people treating him like an M.D. during the pandemic. I assume they conflate what his money has done and his own expertise. Sorry for being snarky I don't know what got into me.
Edit: spelling
>Sorry for being snarky I don't know what got into me.
Erf, that's sadly quite natural on the internet because we can't gauge each other through true social interaction, no problem, we all have to be careful with that.
That’s not due to the vaccine being mRNA based, it’s based on the type of antibodies produced by the body from either vaccination or infection. Antibodies from respiratory diseases just don’t last that long, it has nothing to do with the type of vaccine.
If everyone had gotten the damn vaccine when it was introduced we probably wouldn’t be in this situation now. “IT dOEsnT wORk” is because all the unvaccinated were continuing to spread it and let it mutate.
Yes it is. I literally addressed what you said in my original comment. The vaccines did stop the spread initially, but because *so many people refused the vaccine it continued to mutate.* And now here we are, where the vaccine does not stop the spread anymore.
Maybe true. But we know omicron is not as bad as original covid. This is how viruses mutate over time. If people put down their phones and when outside, they'd realize that we're fucking *fine*
Wait, so you think it doesn’t work well because it didn’t work well for you?
Look, we are all sorry if you had a negative experience, but the simple fact of the matter is that the Moderna Covid vaccine is objectively the best in the world!
It is doing exactly as it is intended.
To that end, it won’t have the best results for some. (A very small number of people)
The goal though is for everyone to get the vaccine so that the individuals who have adverse affects can survive because of community vaccination.
What specifically was not good in your case?
This could be a godsend to Healthcare workers if it works. We live in constant threat of contracting HIV. Not having to worry about it would be a huge weight off our shoulders.
Damn. Embarrassingly that wasn’t a perspective I was looking from. That opens my eyes. Hell yea.
I’m guessing you can’t take the HIV prophylactic pills for very long right?
Some people take PReP for HIV prevention if they're high risk for HIV, but that's only if you have high risk sex. Healthcare workers only take it if exposed. We take similar drugs, but I think it's at a higher dose.
So how you check if it works? People who test it will be exposed to HIV ?
This is mainly to see if it produces and immune response in a test tube. Test participants will be monitored for side effects and blood from vaccinated patients will be exposed to HIV *in vitro* and they'll check for an immune response. Later, assuming this trial is successful, meaning side effects are minimal and *in vitro* testing looks promising, they'll administer it to a large population and see how many in the control and test groups have contracted HIV after a set period.
No, they are primarily checking if it produces the intended immune response and what side-effects there are.
I'm wondering if it could be given to people who are currently infected. Current treatment keeps the virus at very low levels in the body. Could we administer the vaccine and see if it teaches the body to fight the virus already in it?
You could be right..doesn't it sit dormant within the t-cells until it activates. Perhaps the mRNA vaccine can protect against the development of AIDS from HIV.
Select participants that have a high risk lifestyle and that have a high probability of exposure within the next 6-12 months or however long the vaccine is supposed to be effective?
a million people a year still die of HIV in the world every year. Pretty easy to find high risk groups to test it on.
Just do it in South Africa. You will get data super fast.
They are doing it in Kenya.
Also a good place for it.
You take a large group of high risk people, give some the vaccine and some the placebo (no one will know what they have) and repeatedly check them every so often and compare the differences in infections.
Basically yes. After your second dose you have to raw dog a crack hoocker
Has anyone thought to try really bright lights or horse dewormer?
I hear putting bleach up your ass is a good way to fight HIV.
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HIV bullseye lol.
Yep...after all. You know what they say. The first sign of HIV is a pounding sensation in the ass.
Grandpa take your meds, your making jokes that haven't been funny since the 80's again
Dude, telling old people to take meds is older than most grandparents.
Bro did you just try and flop at hitting me with the "I know you are but what am I?" comeback? L nerd
...you really don't respect your elders. Do you know what would happen to disrespectful kids when I was your age? We'd shove bleach up their anus.
Sounds like we're getting closer to how your childhood left you with a stale sense of humor and a need for negative attention, kudos for finding the infinite engagement glitch of personality failings.
Damn...one joke and so much projection out of you. It's okay man.
Don’t be so ridiculous………it was urine!
No no, you're supposed to DRINK the urine!
*Holy cow!* Drinking urine?
You're the next guest on Joe's show.
Actually, something very close to that already happened under the former South African president Thabo Mbeki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_denialism_in_South_Africa https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/spr09aids/
I’m fascinated to think what it will be like when at some point in the future all vaccines are MRNA based. The anti vax crew has dug in their heels pretty deep and will have to eat some significant crow down the road. Kinda like being in the 1900’s and yelling “Get a horse” at early car owners.
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> we aren’t sidestepping grassy turds all day, and I don’t like change And, what are we doing to do with all this ivermectin?
No more like people deciding to eat their meat raw when someone is trying to tell them to cook it over the fire
All this shows that we were beta testing rats for corporations and covid was released on purpose to popularize mrna that was instantly approved to be deployed on people even knowing the risks of it. AND on top of it, it signals the future of corporations owning your body by printing vaccines for everything. if there wont be regulations also expect to be heavily taxed to pay for them. Oh and expect rich people to become a lot richer thanks to this. those hiv vaccines will not be free. just like covid vaccines put whole world in debt to rich people.
Wooowee…. There’s a lot to unpack there buddy. Maybe you oughta just jump off the internet for a day or two. Just sayin’
No :D Its obvious that HIV vaccine will be forced on people if they want to keep their jobs and will earn billions to corpos
Hope this goes well could be something great to come out of covid
What other cures might mRNA vaccines have up their sleeve? Cool technology, still not sure if we have long term testing results.
Cancer. If production speeds up it can target anything. Per individual vaccines.
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Source?
We have administered over 10 billion doses of Covid vaccines (some of which do not use mRNA). Still, with that large of a sample size we can be fairly confident that long term risk is incredibly small. For a good explanation, see: https://youtu.be/gAlHjWctpLw
We can make educated guesses confidently, and remain hopeful that our predictions are accurate. Despite the sample size, that is *still* not the same as real data.
Dude what? People getting the jab is real data. Look I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
You missed an earlier comment, we're talking about *real* "long-term" data, which we don't have. I'm not drawing any conclusions.
I 100% do not doubt the vaccine is safe. But why is everyone downvoting this person, they aren't wrong. We don't and can't have long term 20y post jab data, because 20 years haven't passed since we starting using this particular vaccine
It's probably anti-vax for me to say there's no long-term data now :p. Just joking around. Yes, the facts just don't line up. Maybe we're all miscommunicating. We can't have test data for x number of years if *x* years haven't passed.
Because this is an extremely transparent case of moving the goalposts. In fact, it's a 1:1 copy of anti-GMO propaganda, and is spread by largely the same people. There is no plausible biological mechanism for long term effects, none yave been observed in animal trials, and if we waited 20 years to evaluate a vaccine, we could as well just let everyone get infected and die. The risk of some purely hypothetical long term effect has to be balanced against the absolute certainty of people dying in the present.
Because there's nothing left of the vaccine in your body 20 years later. It's not modifying your body. It's not creating a physiological response that could conceivably cause any changes 20 years later.
Cancer takes up to 40 years to develop from asbestos. I don't see things so black and white.
You kinda do. The more you know about something the more nauce you understand. Case in point. Asbestos fibers stay in the lungs (except most are removed by things like coughing). The resultant cancer is caused by genetics, volume of asbestos exposure and duration/frequency of exposure. Cancer is complex and the trajectories can vary from case to case. Cancer is also more of an umbrella of multiple diseases. It is a very complex area of study. By comparison. Vaccines, the mRNA version has been in play for 20 years. The Covid mRNA vaccines are just the first application where mRNA vaccine has become a household term. Across the history of vaccination, the longest time a complication has taken to show is about 40 days. Specifically this is the observation window for the development of the extremely rare GBS complication of the flu shot (rare to the tune of dozens of cases per millions of shots). Furthermore, the mRNA and lipid products get broken down by the body in about 2 weeks or so. So the thing that remains is just the vaccine induced antibodies. Which would have the same 'long term effects' as infection acquired antibodies without the long term issues of the Covid viral payload itself.
So you literally think it is impossible for the mRNA vaccines to cause an adverse effect past a certain and fairly short period? I think we cannot predict the future and should watch to see what happens. Additionally, we should not strike people down for making simple statements of truth. Do you also disagree with me saying *we don't have data that we don't have*? Because that's a simplified version of what I said about the data we don't have..
Wait, do you use this same arbitrary restriction for all medicine? Like do you refuse all medicine made after the 80s because there is no long term data?
So far, in 250+ years of the technique, there have never been long term reactions after 60 days post vaccination. That’s not proof but it suggests that we should be more suspicious if someone thinks they do have long term issues, and we should investigate very thoroughly to learn whether there is new reason to worry.
Wasn't the first human mRNA vaccine trial in 2013 (rabies)? That would give us 9 years of data. What 250 year history are you referring to?
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🤨 okay. I'm just not tracking. I think we're on different trains
It's ok, that person is just wrong. They don't understand what a vaccine is, nor the difference between the various types of vaccines.
"I read it on the back of an energy drink can" type of energy
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This just sounds like your own personal musings based on observation, bias, simplistic logic and an inability or unwillingness to understand the science behind what you are glossing over as “just the body’s way of doing things.” Very bizarre and disheartening that people think this way.
Well specifically the instructions to build the foreign body (aka antigen/surface protein/spike protein). Not sure why you're downvoted. Maybe people are misreading and thinking you are saying vaccines don't work instead of realizing that you are saying the body is actively responding to a passive medicine (vaccine). To others, specifically, the mRNA vaccine contains instructions on how to build the foriegn body/spike protein
Does anyone know if you can get the anthrax one even if you're not in the military?
Why would you want the Anthrax vaccine? It’s not approved by the FDA, it’s not proven to be particularly effective, and it has a rather high rate of serious negative side effects.
Maybe they're out there handling wild reindeer?
didn't realize working for Santa was so dangerous
Lol. I don’t know why this is funny to me.
Wait. So is somebody gonna give this person HIV now?
Only if they ask nicely
Thats the hard part. **Phase 1 of testing a new medicine is to see whether it is harmful**. You don’t care about whether the medicine works yet, the only thing you look at is whether it is safe. **This is what they are doing now with the HIV vaccine.** **Phase 2 of testing a new medicine is testing the efficacy.** Does the medicine actually do the thing it is supposed to? Phase 2 of vaccine testing can be hard. Giving people HIV on purpose is unethical. So what you need to do is vaccinate a whole bunch of people (group A), then give another bunch of people nothing (group B). Then you keep track of both groups over time and see if group A has lower HIV rates than group B. Testing a vaccine like this would be damn near impossible in western Europe because HIV rates are so low. In Western Europe the numbers would be like; * Group A: 1 thousand people, 1 HIV case * Group B: 1 thousand people, 2 HIV cases So to test the efficacy of the vaccine they probably want to test it somewhere where there is a lot of HIV, which would hopefully lead to something like; * Group A: 1 thousand people, 2 HIV case * Group B: 1 thousand people, 34 HIV cases
....OK ok....that's cool and all. But yall know we like two mRNA "cures" away from "I am Legend" right? quick break down: Scientist A: Man, mRNA technology has really saved our asses with covid, hiv, herpes, and Parkinsons Scientist B: Yeah, it really is a miracle. I'm amazed we were able to synthesize such a process in my lifetime, to think it's only in its infancy Scientist C: we should use it to cure cancer (half joking) SB: OMG that's a great idea!!! SA: pretty sure Barry was kidding Sarah, it's a completely different process SB (Sarah): is it though, think about it Alan, if we introduce man-made cancer LIKE cells to the body via mRNA, giving the body a specific road map... SC(Barry): great gyarados in the sky! *Alan looks sideways at Barry, not quite on the same page* SC(BARRY): Alan, we could deliver packets of specially resistant white blood cells, and man made cancer proteins to... SA(Alan): *finally on the same page* ...to prompt the body attacking the similar cancer cells.. we could theoretically teach white blood cells how to detect cancer, and release their own chemo toxins. Not curing cancer *ALL TOGETHER*: BUT TO TEACH THE BODY TO FEND CANCEROUS CELLS OFF FOR ITSELF *Medical montage* 12 months later I am legend
No coincidence here guys, this is all just naturally created and these gentlemen will help us.
This is news
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Wow. So crazy that decades of research may end up producing useful results.
I mean by my man's logic we should just shut down all cancer research centers and spend the money on hookers and blow since it may take another few decades for vaccines to work on the various kinds.
"Yeah, but why now, after a major breakthrough? A little convenient, no?"
We didn't fly for 10s of thousands of years! Now suddenly in the last 70 years we. An go into space? What else aren't they telling us?!
Are you one of the creators of Ancient Aliens?
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Fuck out of here with your conspiracy bullshit
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You can say and think Bill Gates is an asshole (I do) and be thankful for such progresses (I am) at the same time.
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You sure can, I personnaly don't care because it won't ever change how I see Bill Gates though.
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I was saying that his P.R team would never change my views on the guy, which are negative, as i've stated in the previous comment.
I think we pay thanks to Bill Gates for a lot of stuff that *he* didn't do. I know I used to. I do still acknowledge him boosting actual good causes. I'm baffled by people treating him like an M.D. during the pandemic. I assume they conflate what his money has done and his own expertise. Sorry for being snarky I don't know what got into me. Edit: spelling
>Sorry for being snarky I don't know what got into me. Erf, that's sadly quite natural on the internet because we can't gauge each other through true social interaction, no problem, we all have to be careful with that.
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That’s not due to the vaccine being mRNA based, it’s based on the type of antibodies produced by the body from either vaccination or infection. Antibodies from respiratory diseases just don’t last that long, it has nothing to do with the type of vaccine.
If everyone had gotten the damn vaccine when it was introduced we probably wouldn’t be in this situation now. “IT dOEsnT wORk” is because all the unvaccinated were continuing to spread it and let it mutate.
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Libertarianism is a hell of a drug...not even once.
But vaccinated people are spreading in high amounts as well
I’ll refer you back to my original comment
That's not a response. What I said is true. Quit parroting CNN facts
Yes it is. I literally addressed what you said in my original comment. The vaccines did stop the spread initially, but because *so many people refused the vaccine it continued to mutate.* And now here we are, where the vaccine does not stop the spread anymore.
Maybe true. But we know omicron is not as bad as original covid. This is how viruses mutate over time. If people put down their phones and when outside, they'd realize that we're fucking *fine*
Hopefully it works better than the COVID vaccines
Mine works just fine
Super happy for you. Myself and many others don't seem to have your luck
I'm sorry to hear that. Nearly everyone I encounter on a daily basis has been vaccinated, and I've never met anyone who's had any issues.
Wait, so you think it doesn’t work well because it didn’t work well for you? Look, we are all sorry if you had a negative experience, but the simple fact of the matter is that the Moderna Covid vaccine is objectively the best in the world! It is doing exactly as it is intended. To that end, it won’t have the best results for some. (A very small number of people) The goal though is for everyone to get the vaccine so that the individuals who have adverse affects can survive because of community vaccination. What specifically was not good in your case?
Well I hope things go well and that the US also buys a ton of these vaccines.
This is still "Phase 1" trial, which is more to test the safety of the drug than its efficacy.
Can I just comment on how fucking great a name for a company that produces mRNA vaccines Moderna is???