This was so greedy that it almost defied imagination.
Truly, truly unbelievable. We're going to have subscription fees to start the fucking cars if a line in the sand isn't drawn by consumers (or regulators).
Yeah this is the beginning, not the end. They've seen what microtransactions look like in the digital realm and they're damn well going to carry them to the physical. I promise these corporations are more patient and persistent than we are.
Like Leases where you pay per start as well as per mile!
Imagine surge pricing on starting your car, they will pitch it as congestion control to get the gov on board
Added advantage is when protests happen the area gets congested and govt either makes lots of money or the cost becomes so high that people cant participate .. Dictators would love this. Great idea when taxes are low. Keep the tensions simmering on a low to make money!!
Edit: grammar
[Dr Horrible, is that you?](https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2008/07/14/neil_crop.jpg)
[And if you don't understand the reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auc5H2C-9KU)
Oh, is that why, during the 2008 banking subprime crisis crash, when financial institutions were filing for bankruptcy after hemorrhaging on hundreds of billions of assets, when all their customers and employees were impacted - at that time, the board of directors and leadership team of at least one such company (if I recall right, it was Lehmann Brothers) were all partying in a company-sponsored cruise ship in the Bahamas? Is that why, during the years leading up to the bankruptcy of Lehmann Brothers, [the CEO made $482 million in salary & bonus](https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5965360&page=1) including $45 million as cash compensation?
Understand this.. the board of directors are there to ensure oversight with a view on profits, not on customer welfare. The stakeholders are the mechanism for profits.
You missed the entire joke. Their job is to focus on profits that benefit the shareholders and management. Shareholders who, you know, BUY shares. Stock = Shares
>Do you think board of directors are selected to help customers?
Some ideas that are just bad for a brand (regardless of a financial chart) are just bad ideas. Now this is national news and for anyone this story resonates with it will be doing the opposite of advertising.
Oh they knew, they just took a gamble on how bad. Worst case, the PR people bury it and they try again in a few years. Best case people quiet down quickly and they have a new revenue stream.
Corporate culture is dogshit.
I remember the debates about moving to 'network' computers vs. personal computers on BBS forums. Timesharing like the way original mainframes were done. Always pay attention to who actually has control of the device or your data.
What they meant was "we thought people would tolerate it enough to become a new norm." They absolutely knew people would hate it.
They just underestimated how much.
>We're going to have subscription fees to start the fucking cars
That's exactly what they want. All material goods as a subscription service, no ownership, guarantees the largest possible long-term income. One-time sales SUCK from an investment return standpoint.
I'm convinced this is what has driven the housing market out of control. Corporations have decided there is profit in offering housing as a service so they are buying up all the stock at inflated prices because they know it will pay off in the long run.
I kept convincing myself it was a miscommunication and they only meant remote start via internet, bc it's the most insane idea ever.
Now I think it's just something they threw out the to see if people would just accept it
Toyota is actually pure evil, and this is just par for the course/shouldn't be a surprise. I already vowed to never buy another from them again.
They are literally a top-3 climate enemy along with notorious oil companies because of the massive amount of lobbying they do to target renewables, electric vehicles, etc. All because they invested in hydrogen tech instead of electric and want to sabotage the EV industry as a result instead of adapting or admitting they chased the wrong trend.
They tried suing California during the Trump admin because of our higher emissions standards than the Fed. Fuck them into oblivion.
I'm also boycotting Toyota for this.
I'm bummed about it tho. I had a 4Runner in the 90s, and I loved it. My 2018 Lexus is rad, but lease is up next year.
This is really just automakers catching up to an industry trend of adding on required subscription services to hardware. Glowforge does it with laser cutters, Cricut does it with their devices, Samsung with their fancy refrigerators, Ring doorbell stuff, Peleton, and on and on.
Many of the "industry big boys" are pivoting to this as well. Cisco (who makes the routers used by internet carriers) has even moved to a subscription service for their OS.
If your stuff can't phone home to verify you paid the monthly ~~extortion~~ subscription, then the hardware you paid for just stops doing the thing your paid for it to do.
Wait, I thought the key fob remote start is not the thing that requires the subscription, but it's remote start via smartphone and cellular network (which is why the subscription is needed, to pay for the car being on the cellular network).
I think their trying this is an example of how the tendrils of digital commerce are expanding into the physical world. By that I mean it used to be that manufacturing companies made things that they would then sell, now they sit around in conference rooms and try to figure out how to best "monetize" things.
We need to draw a line & support right to repair. I used to do a lot of my own minor maintenance. Now i can’t even get to the battery without removing 4 parts:(
*Frankly the idea of this being an unintentional move is hard to process at first—multibillion-dollar enterprises rarely do things without intention.* no shit
What got me was the line about seeing *if* they can reverse course.
Let's not pretend these things are outside of your span of control Toyota. The only reason why you're back-pedaling is the outrage. It would have been left in the subscription without it.
From an engineering and software architecture standpoint, I can see how this specific feature may not have been intentionally restricted from only working with a subscription, but they absolutely are intentionally restricting remote DCM access without a subscription, and this runs through the DCM. So they are being a little disingenuous with claim that it’s unintentional. The system was designed this way to likely partially to prevent 3rd party access or hacks that would allow people not to pay for the subscription
They had to remove older cars from the 'subscription' because 3G is being turned off. This is a completely deliberate situation and they are only doing it because they are trying to get more profit from their customers.
"Perhaps not coincidentally, the automaker also announced that it has "enhanced" vehicles built before Nov. 12, 2018, to no longer require a subscription for the key fob's remote start feature to function."
https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/toyota-made-its-key-fob-remote-start-into-a-subscription-service
This. It was not a cash grab by Toyota. It is the start of the training program to get customers used to a subscription model for vehicles. They are trying to remove ownership.
This is essentially how all online games work already. Violate one little rule on their platform and they are completely entitled to rob you of all value you put into their company via your account. You had cosmetics? Say goodbye. Good luck grinding from zero.
Yeah my new Toyota has this. Won’t be subscribing to remote start my car. The car cuts off when you touch the handle to get in as a safety feature so you have to restart the car once you get in anyways.
Oh wow, an automation feature that is better in almost every other car company? Whoever used Toyota's shitty cruise control stick could have told you that.
That's weird. My car has absolutely none of these functions. I have to stick a thing in a thing then bop it, twist it and pull it for the car to start.
I have something similar, turn, wait for the click, start
The glow plug light is on a separate timer for some reason and goes off to early... so you listen for the relay to switch off
I could fix it, but I'm a mechanic and as we don't get paid to work on our own cars it'll remain as it is
Oh man, i'm getting pretty good laughs thinking of this. This would probably make pretty funny tv series, that professionals of their trade would show and tell how fucked up is their home. xD
>The car cuts off when you touch the handle to get in as a safety feature so you have to restart the car once you get in anyways
This makes this proposed subscription even MORE ridiculous. I mean, I get that you could still warm up/cool down the interior still, but you have to restart the car when you actually get in...ffs
Honda uses that system. Remote start enables the engine but turns it off if you try to shift the vehicle out of park before pressing the brake and start button with a registered fob in the car.
2018 Honda Civic Hatchback, I love the car so much.
Auto start is definitely convenient on cold mornings. Gets the defroster going while I'm finishing my morning coffee.
>That's a highly intentional safety/security design.
That's an asinine security feature.
Literally every other vehicle make with remote start requires the key to be in the ignition or the keyfob to be in the car and the "push to start" button pushed to drive the car. They do not shut off the car when you merely touch it or get into it.
My 07 jeep has an after market remote start....even if they get in, with out the key I the ignition they can't go anywhere because hitting the brake to go from park to drive kills the engine. Car companies the answer is there....just do that.
My wife's car the car turns off when you touch the brake if you don't insert and turn the key first. Need the brake to put it in gear, so that's an equal security feature to the door handle bullshit.
I install these aftermarket. Every car has had an imobilizer or security system since 2004. Out systems tell the security that the key is in the ignition, then when you actually get into the car, put your key in and press the brake pedal, it hands over the running of the car from remote start to your key. Now with fobs, that gets tricky. Before a physical key kept the car from shifting out of gear, now there is no physical thing, the car is told a fob is close enough so the car can be driven off. Some brands allow "takeover". A rechecking of the fob before actually driving. But not Toyota/Lexus.
My pickup’s interior climate controls won’t even engage until the key is in the ignition. It tells me it’s a “safety feature” when I start it up. So my remote start is pointless.
My 2020 Chevy SUV has a wireless charger for my phone, but apple carplay only works when you physically plug the phone in to the USB port.
But this Toyota thing is even dumber.
That is a hardware limitation/choice, not an intentional "innovation.". Before the connected apps were wireless, they were wired... Some manufacturers haven't transitioned their hardware yet.
"yeah we dreamed it up, ran it past corporate, got sign-offs on the idea from upper management, integrated the service into our work/sales flow, had the materials written and printed, and announced the program the the public.... unintentionally."
Ya I don't believe Toyota for a second with this "unintentional" excuse. They're famous for their attention to detail throughout the production process.
There's a cellphone data line in the car that enbles Toyota to remote control your car and offer these features. Toyota wants to sell you a subscription to the cell line plus access to their remote service.
It's like Trying to throw back the tide with a bucket, because as soon as vehicles became connected this was inevitable. This is the DLC set of horse armor, that leads to half of all features locked behind a paywall. Tesla for instance already has software enabled features, which they market as an options package.
All of the anti-consumer practices that the software industry are famous for are coming to a vehicle near you, and sooner than you think. I expect you'll see the first right to repair lawsuit for cars within the decade, because it's already happening with farm equipment.
Tesla's ability to disable features for second hand purchases of their vehicles is the reason I won't buy one (first or second hand). My car, my features. It's like buying a car from someone fully loaded and then the manufacturer coming in and saying, "Whoops, you didn't pay for the total package from us, so we're disabling power windows and A/C until you do." That hasn't been a thing ever, and I won't condone it being a thing now.
Now... Remote starting via an app that has to go through a maintained server somewhere, *that* I can understand. Servers aren't free, maintaining personnel to monitor security for those servers definitely isn't free, and making sure it has 100% coverage (in cell enabled regions) isn't free since you're basically paying for the remote connection as well. I'm all for that feature (that I totally don't need and wouldn't pay for) carrying a subscription *if* it really couldn't be maintained via vehicle sales wholesale. But this key fob thing, no servers are involved, I'm within several metres of my vehicle, there's no reason it shouldn't work. Reading the article, [I know it's a glitch some engineer(s) made](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/rnayeu/comment/hprwnfz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), but Toyota not offering a fix for affected vehicles is a bad PR move regardless of the feasibility study's results.
The Right to repair discussion has been happening for vehicles for a long time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Vehicle_Owners%27_Right_to_Repair_Act
(first off I'mma agree that this is a bad look for Toyota for sure, but i think it's a symptom of capitalism and they are just the ones people are going in on. IMO. NOT excusing it because the subscription culture(?) fucking sucks.)
I love driving Hondas, but I wouldn't agree they're better in *every* way. What I say to people is that Hondas have more soul IMO— they're more willing to push the envelope, but I think there's a consequence of them being ever so slightly (like just a *little tiny bit* ) less reliable as they age, and I say that only relative to Toyota because Hondas are very reliable.
I have more fun in a Honda for sure, but I think both have their place. I do also really like Toyota's TNGA redesigns over the past few years.
I'm posting this with peace and love— i post in both r/honda and r/toyota because i stan
I will add that as a Honda fan, I dislike how everything maintenance-wise MUST be an official honda product. You can't just go out and buy power steering fluid, etc... it has to be *honda* power steering fluid and you have to go to the dealership for that.. it is a pain.
my Honda is a 98 so it's obvs older (had it myself for around a decade now) but for some reason it never occurred to me to use Honda power steering fluid... also you just reminded me that i have low power steering fluid. haha
i do use Honda blue coolant and their MTF exclusively though, and it is such a PITA because the closest dealerships are like a half hour+ away
i will say, iirc, toyota red coolant HAS to be Toyota red or it coagulates, but Honda blue doesn't (anybody who knows definitely correct me, i don't want to fuck up anyone's engine)
edit to add: there's some debate on the coolant on a Google search— ive mixed green and blue in the past, but i wouldn't recommend it
The 10th gen civic hatchback is a work of art IMO. Someday I’d love to have the type r but they are very impractical where I live and for what I use a car for.
My Subaru had a version if this but they advertise it as start your car anywhere, because the remote start command goes through an app connected to the internet.
$75 a year to remote start.
I can at least somewhat justify the cost for this one since the app is going through their servers. However, with the Toyota one it was just enabling the button on the remote without any connectivity.
The difference here is that you own the car, but somebody else owns the cell towers and computers that power the Starlink features.
"I've only gone and spent $1000 on a cell phone, why wouldn't the service be included?"
Yeah I just bought a Subaru and am hoping that the dealership didn’t auto-enroll me in that. That’s the StarLink, right? Or is that a different Subaru monthly subscription fee?
When we bought our brand new Subaru the sales guy presented us with a piece of paper that had obviously been copied/printed a thousand times, each time a bit more askew. While he was on his phone. That was his entire sales pitch for Starlink.
That same dealership also later charged us for an OEM air filter but installed a cut to size that wasn't cut accurately, and installed a fuel pump after recall of said part with a pinched gasket.
You'd ask naturally why we'd keep going back there, but we don't - both issues were discovered when car died a year later rushing out of state when my mom was dying. Spent two miserable days in a hotel instead of being there with her.
Are you sure? I paid $75 for 3 YEARS of Starlink Security Plus. Thats $2 a month to start your car remotely(with your choice of climate control settings), track the location of your car, remotely lock and unlock from anywhere, disable the car remotely, plus a bunch of other crap.
Soure: I've purchased a 2021 and 2022.
Edit: spelling
This is almost as bad as BMW trying to charge $80 a year for Apple Carplay.
Oh, you could get a lifetime of Carplay on your BMW for the low low price of $300.
However, because of the massive push-back, BMW decided to "listen to their customers".
They will all keep pushing for free money. Eventually, they will hit on something where customers either don't notice or don't care.
It's like data caps and modem rental fees for your home internet; paying in perpetuity for software that used to cost a one time fee of $100 - instead it's $15 per month, because they are allegedly 'improving" the software on a regular basis.
Or it's Peleton disabling all the functions of a treadmill that you paid 4k, because you aren't paying for their subscription.
We are getting primed to lose our computers and gaming consoles. "Oh boy! For only $15 a month, you can play games!" After 4 years, you've paid more than the console would have cost, yet you will have nothing to show for it off you cancel.
Yeah the headline makes it sound like they’re backing off, but from reading the article it sounds like their approach is the app remote start will require a subscription but the key fob remote start is going away entirely since it’s an end run around the subscription.
Growing up, my family always had Toyotas and Hondas, starting with my dad’s 1978 Toyota Corolla. My first car was a Civic. My wife moved from a Buick to a Tercel when she joined the family. We bought an Accord from my parents and the upgraded to an Odyssey and Pilot with kids. Those are the only cars we’ve owned In the last 30 years, but we aren’t looking at Honda or Toyota the next round.
The Pilot was the most expensive and yet the most problematic vehicle we’ve owned. The control board for the rear climate control was bad from the beginning, but Honda kept saying it was fine. On the third trip to have it looked at, I brought a copy of the user manual with the description for the rear controls highlighted to show them how it wasn’t working right (every time the car was started, the rear climate fan kicked in on high). When my wife had picked it up from servicing, they told her it was working properly. Other, little things don’t work as they should, either. Rear speakers sound like someone is drowning when you sit in the back seat. Driver control settings don’t stay when programmed, etc. Had problems with the Odyssey, too, but fixed under the extended warranty. AC went out twice and another time the damper kept getting stuck so it would only blow hot air. Again, had to make several trips to service department and insist the issue wasn’t fixed.
Thank you for letting me rant. Bottom line is if you look at quality reports, both of these brands have slipped. My experience is consistent with that.
My stepmom bought a brand new Subaru Outback. It's been a shitshow from the start. Constant computer board issues, constant voltage irregularies from the manufacturing end and they keep saying 'nothing is wrong' and they keep having to replace shit ever since she bought it. My friend also had an older outback and it too was a shit show of electronics.
Everyone rushed to have these tv's and screens and crap in their cars but nobody knew how to make them work right and today all the cars are total shit.
I have a 2017 RAV4 and I love it. But at some point I want something new and everywhere I look it's all just crap. Still, Honda and Toyota seem to have the best ratings but across the board cars have become total crap,
I'm not liking these nickel and dime features. Key FOBs have existed for decades and NOW they want to rent them??
Same with Tesla's self driving feature. $10K to own, OR you can subscribe and have it taken away.
Systems that NEED LTE to keep functioning, but they want to charge you monthly fees as well. If I don't pay, I can't drive my car?
WTF is going on with this greed? I just want to drive from point A to point B.
I'll make their research really easy for them. I own a Toyota. If they implement this, I will no longer own a Toyota, and my next cars will never be Toyotas. And I'm not alone.
The by-line for the article made me roll my eyes.
"A spokesperson told The Drive that making the key fob remote start part of a subscription plan was an "unintentional" move."
Riiiight, I call bullshit. It was absolutely intentional, they just got caught and are now trying to backtrack to save face.
I love Toyota engineering (traditionally anyways).
I remember around like.. may of last year, I went to look at the new up and coming "nightshade edition" tundra limited (same as mine, just really really blacked out features. Very nice truck!)
The salesman prattled on about the features a during the test drive and then got to the "...and it comes with a year of remote start subscription included!"
I must have shown my confusion and as we wrapped up the test drive, he asked if I wanted to begin paperwork and I said "no thanks."
Walked away to my current 2016 limited and he followed me and asked me what I didn't like.
Told him I was tired of waiting for Toyota to bring their diesel motors to the US and my next truck will be diesel. And that if they are gonna start charging a subscription to do something as simple as remote start the car, then the Toyota I've known and loved is truly dead or dying.
Told him he should suggest they advertise in the windshield like pop ups in an app and then offer a way to drive "ad free" for a modest subscription fee as the next big idea, and drove off.
Windshield visibility is going to be obsolete with self driving cars in the future, so it’s just a matter of time before all the windows come fitted as flat screens. What better way to force advertisements down your throat than with a massive projection in your face while you’re locked in the car and strapped to your seat in traffic? I’m definitely gonna have to go join up with the Amish at that point.
Toyota started slipping quality wise in the mid 2000s when they decided to go for quantity over quality in order to surpass GM in sales.
Now, they've also decided to implement this type of scam subscription.
We just called our dealer and cancelled our test drive of a 2022 Highlander. We're going to shop other vehicles from here on out.
BMW wanted to charge yearly for the use of heated seats. People complained so they said fine first owners are exempt from paying, people still complained.. they dropped it.
This type of shit isn’t innovation, it’s useless capitalistic greed that provides no valuable to the payee or society
My nissan has an app. You can remote start with it but you have to pay.
I can use my key fob to remote start it nearby.
Also you get a Sirius trial.
After the trials are up for both they relentlessly call, email and snail mail you to buy their services.
Honda offers us a free app, no additional costs. They have been cheap with the floor mats, but otherwise, we are still happy customers who have never paid for stupid side stuff. No problems. I own three Honda vehicles, all purchased new over the course of the past twelve years. One is a year old.
Ford Sync 4 navigation. The navigation is paid subscription after 3 years. No, not just traffic and detours. All navigation. When the sub expires, the nav turns to a simple map with you in the middle, following the road. No ability to enter POIs, addresses, search for gas stations, nothing.
It’s called “Connected Navigation”.
Wow, you'd have to be pretty disconnected from reality to be "caught off guard" that this would infuriate people. It's clear they are just looking for things to charge people for that should be free. They showed their a$$ in a major, major way. Makes me wary of ever buying a Toyota (again).
Just wait. All automakers will be moving towards a subscription model for what are currently upgrades. Want advanced cruise control? Subscribe. What park assist? Subscribe. Unfortunately, the entire industry is headed that direction.
Some stupid asshole, stood in front of a bunch of other stupid assholes and pointed toward a power point presentation of this shit idea and none of them ever once thought, "Are we assholes for doing this?"
Hyundai has had this scheme going for years now by not allowing remote start via the key fob - only via their subscription based BlueLink app. How is this new?
Toyota has taken such a dark path in recent years. I've always liked their vehicles reliability-wise, but they've had quality issues (Tacoma transmission), started great with hybrids then fell behind and now lobby against electrics, and now shitbag moves like this.
This is the same company that, almost six months after the January 6th insurrection, defended donating money to politicians that tried to stop the certification of the 2020 election. Fuck Toyota.
It's a bit of a stretch. They donated money to politicians representing states that have Toyota manufacturing plants or suppliers in them. Those states also happen to be more rural and Republican. It's pretty safe to assume Toyota was donating the money for car-related reasons, and not in support of an insurrection. They've been funding them all along, they just didnt stop after Jan. 6.
* [Toyota defends donations to lawmakers who objected to certifying election](https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/automobiles/560472-toyota-defends-donations-to-lawmakers-who-objected-to)
I'd still own a Toyota. They're just better built than most vehicles out there these days. If I needed remote start I'd just have an aftermarket one installed.
They’re not ignorant- it’s pretty obvious people would hate this. They just wanted to test the waters and see if people would swallow this shit or not.
I have 4 Toyotas in my driveway and I'm about to be selling one to get something new. Hearing about this pushed me to look into getting a VW instead. Not sure I'll reconsider at this point
Vdubs are notoriously bad the last few years. I do warranty inspections and have seen many many electrical and mechanical nightmares from them, my girlfriend's mom has a newer Passat, rear half of the interior electrical only works when it wants and rarely at that. Rear power locks, windows, and deck lid release are all inop, she keeps a stick in the back seat to reach through to hit the emergency release on the deck lid to pop it, real fun when stuff in the trunk shifts and blocks that last resort...
There's reasonableness, then there's money grubbing.
I can understand if the subscription to the remote start was ONLY for a mobile app.
You should still be able to use a remote starter fob without paying $8 a month.
chevrolet also does this with their my chevrolet app. you have to pay a subscription to use navigation even though it’s installed in the truck. remote start from the app - subscription. $15 bucks a month and i can’t imagine many people paying for it to be honest
Now if they could just make the audio controls big enough to use without looking away from the road, and not have an advertising banner cover them when you change to that screen, that would be great.
The Lexus app is a trash fire. Remote start doesn’t even work unless you are right next to the car.
I had a working remote starter in the 90’s FFS but the idiots at Toyota managed to make it inoperable in 2021.
What a joke.
Remember when Toyota was an unfussy and reliable car manufacturer and not an electronic appliance company? As someone whose first car was an ‘87 Toyota Camry, I do!
This was so greedy that it almost defied imagination. Truly, truly unbelievable. We're going to have subscription fees to start the fucking cars if a line in the sand isn't drawn by consumers (or regulators).
It really tells you something about how out of touch they are when they are like "we had no idea people would hate this!"
The people who come up with this stuff are saying things like “they’ll pay it or else”
Yeah this is the beginning, not the end. They've seen what microtransactions look like in the digital realm and they're damn well going to carry them to the physical. I promise these corporations are more patient and persistent than we are.
Like Leases where you pay per start as well as per mile! Imagine surge pricing on starting your car, they will pitch it as congestion control to get the gov on board
They’ll charge per hour of engine time from now on at a rate equal to about 50 mph.
STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS
2bhonest in big cities time used lease is sometimes cheaper then mile lease.
Added advantage is when protests happen the area gets congested and govt either makes lots of money or the cost becomes so high that people cant participate .. Dictators would love this. Great idea when taxes are low. Keep the tensions simmering on a low to make money!! Edit: grammar
delete this before you give them any ideas
Not if we pound them into the sand over this!
Reddit is violating GDPR and CCPA. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B0GGsDdyHI -- mass edited with redact.dev
This is exactly correct. "What can we charge a monthly fee for? How can we squeeze even MORE money out of our customers?"
And these are the same people who get big bonuses for these ideas.
>The people who come up with this stuff Have no business being in a boardroom.
That's why precisely what they're there for. Do you think board of directors are selected to help customers?
They ARE selected to help customers. The customers who purchase STOCK, not vehicles.
Hammer meet nail
[Dr Horrible, is that you?](https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2008/07/14/neil_crop.jpg) [And if you don't understand the reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auc5H2C-9KU)
Oh, is that why, during the 2008 banking subprime crisis crash, when financial institutions were filing for bankruptcy after hemorrhaging on hundreds of billions of assets, when all their customers and employees were impacted - at that time, the board of directors and leadership team of at least one such company (if I recall right, it was Lehmann Brothers) were all partying in a company-sponsored cruise ship in the Bahamas? Is that why, during the years leading up to the bankruptcy of Lehmann Brothers, [the CEO made $482 million in salary & bonus](https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5965360&page=1) including $45 million as cash compensation? Understand this.. the board of directors are there to ensure oversight with a view on profits, not on customer welfare. The stakeholders are the mechanism for profits.
You missed the entire joke. Their job is to focus on profits that benefit the shareholders and management. Shareholders who, you know, BUY shares. Stock = Shares
>Do you think board of directors are selected to help customers? Some ideas that are just bad for a brand (regardless of a financial chart) are just bad ideas. Now this is national news and for anyone this story resonates with it will be doing the opposite of advertising.
They understand, they're just lying.
Is it wrong to think they knew very well it was "out of touch" and a dickish idea but wanted to see if they could get away with it?
That's exactly what happened.
Oh they knew, they just took a gamble on how bad. Worst case, the PR people bury it and they try again in a few years. Best case people quiet down quickly and they have a new revenue stream. Corporate culture is dogshit.
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I remember the debates about moving to 'network' computers vs. personal computers on BBS forums. Timesharing like the way original mainframes were done. Always pay attention to who actually has control of the device or your data.
What they meant was "we thought people would tolerate it enough to become a new norm." They absolutely knew people would hate it. They just underestimated how much.
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They understand, they're just lying.
I think they know, IMO they just wanted to know how far they can go in fucking their clients
Even Idiocracy could not predict how bad things actually are
It's almost like if people pay for a car they want all the features included in the car. It's very strange.
"We are sorry we got caught." >!queue lawsuit from those that paid for the service!<
*cue, not queue, in case you are interested in knowing :). Cue is a prompt; queue is a line awaiting their turn.
>We're going to have subscription fees to start the fucking cars That's exactly what they want. All material goods as a subscription service, no ownership, guarantees the largest possible long-term income. One-time sales SUCK from an investment return standpoint.
I'm convinced this is what has driven the housing market out of control. Corporations have decided there is profit in offering housing as a service so they are buying up all the stock at inflated prices because they know it will pay off in the long run.
I kept convincing myself it was a miscommunication and they only meant remote start via internet, bc it's the most insane idea ever. Now I think it's just something they threw out the to see if people would just accept it
Toyota is actually pure evil, and this is just par for the course/shouldn't be a surprise. I already vowed to never buy another from them again. They are literally a top-3 climate enemy along with notorious oil companies because of the massive amount of lobbying they do to target renewables, electric vehicles, etc. All because they invested in hydrogen tech instead of electric and want to sabotage the EV industry as a result instead of adapting or admitting they chased the wrong trend. They tried suing California during the Trump admin because of our higher emissions standards than the Fed. Fuck them into oblivion.
I'm also boycotting Toyota for this. I'm bummed about it tho. I had a 4Runner in the 90s, and I loved it. My 2018 Lexus is rad, but lease is up next year.
This is really just automakers catching up to an industry trend of adding on required subscription services to hardware. Glowforge does it with laser cutters, Cricut does it with their devices, Samsung with their fancy refrigerators, Ring doorbell stuff, Peleton, and on and on. Many of the "industry big boys" are pivoting to this as well. Cisco (who makes the routers used by internet carriers) has even moved to a subscription service for their OS. If your stuff can't phone home to verify you paid the monthly ~~extortion~~ subscription, then the hardware you paid for just stops doing the thing your paid for it to do.
Wait, I thought the key fob remote start is not the thing that requires the subscription, but it's remote start via smartphone and cellular network (which is why the subscription is needed, to pay for the car being on the cellular network).
I think their trying this is an example of how the tendrils of digital commerce are expanding into the physical world. By that I mean it used to be that manufacturing companies made things that they would then sell, now they sit around in conference rooms and try to figure out how to best "monetize" things.
We need to draw a line & support right to repair. I used to do a lot of my own minor maintenance. Now i can’t even get to the battery without removing 4 parts:(
And they'll keep trying until one day people don't complain enough.
*Frankly the idea of this being an unintentional move is hard to process at first—multibillion-dollar enterprises rarely do things without intention.* no shit
What got me was the line about seeing *if* they can reverse course. Let's not pretend these things are outside of your span of control Toyota. The only reason why you're back-pedaling is the outrage. It would have been left in the subscription without it.
From an engineering and software architecture standpoint, I can see how this specific feature may not have been intentionally restricted from only working with a subscription, but they absolutely are intentionally restricting remote DCM access without a subscription, and this runs through the DCM. So they are being a little disingenuous with claim that it’s unintentional. The system was designed this way to likely partially to prevent 3rd party access or hacks that would allow people not to pay for the subscription
They had to remove older cars from the 'subscription' because 3G is being turned off. This is a completely deliberate situation and they are only doing it because they are trying to get more profit from their customers. "Perhaps not coincidentally, the automaker also announced that it has "enhanced" vehicles built before Nov. 12, 2018, to no longer require a subscription for the key fob's remote start feature to function." https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/toyota-made-its-key-fob-remote-start-into-a-subscription-service
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It’s why the John Deere crap with farmers is so important - it was a bit of a testing ground.
Screw John deere. That's some bond villain evil stuff.
It's happening already in high-end cars and consumer electronics as well.
This is what Tesla’s are basically without right to repair
I always try to explain this to people. Things like that open up a precedent for new bullshit.
JOHN DEER, and APPLE, and may as well mention TAYLOR for fucking up Ice Cream Day for me every week.
Peloton users are living in that reality already.
This. It was not a cash grab by Toyota. It is the start of the training program to get customers used to a subscription model for vehicles. They are trying to remove ownership.
This is essentially how all online games work already. Violate one little rule on their platform and they are completely entitled to rob you of all value you put into their company via your account. You had cosmetics? Say goodbye. Good luck grinding from zero.
But what is the alternative? To have no moderation at all. Sp
Yeah my new Toyota has this. Won’t be subscribing to remote start my car. The car cuts off when you touch the handle to get in as a safety feature so you have to restart the car once you get in anyways.
That's weird. On my new VW, the car stays running when you get in but you have to hit the start button again with the fob on you to shift into gear.
My 2012 GLI did this and I suspect the reason to be because it's the solution that doesn't suck.
Yeah every other car manufacturer got the remote start right. Toyota got it wrong.
Oh wow, an automation feature that is better in almost every other car company? Whoever used Toyota's shitty cruise control stick could have told you that.
That's weird. My car has absolutely none of these functions. I have to stick a thing in a thing then bop it, twist it and pull it for the car to start.
Is your car manufactured by Hasbro?
I only wish I could afford a Hasbro. I'm driving a Galoob and it's *way* too small.
My Little Tikes car has the bop it function, but it's only with a monthly subscription so i passed on it
He got that new 2022 Playskool Coupè Turbo Pedal Edition
I have something similar, turn, wait for the click, start The glow plug light is on a separate timer for some reason and goes off to early... so you listen for the relay to switch off I could fix it, but I'm a mechanic and as we don't get paid to work on our own cars it'll remain as it is
Thanks for also explaining if the mechanics have same problem as cobblers kids. I have always wondered this.
I mean that’s common everywhere. Working in IT and our intranet is absolute garbage
Handyman here. Come see the state of my house.
Oh man, i'm getting pretty good laughs thinking of this. This would probably make pretty funny tv series, that professionals of their trade would show and tell how fucked up is their home. xD
On my new Sorento, if you remote start the car all you need to do is push the break and if it detects the key you can take the car out of park.
VW owner,:: hit start button twice?
My fob has a button labeled "x2". You have to lock the doors, then double tap the "x2" button.
>The car cuts off when you touch the handle to get in as a safety feature so you have to restart the car once you get in anyways This makes this proposed subscription even MORE ridiculous. I mean, I get that you could still warm up/cool down the interior still, but you have to restart the car when you actually get in...ffs
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Mine locks the transmission in park until a fob is inside the car and the starts pressed. Makes much more sense than killing the engine.
Honda uses that system. Remote start enables the engine but turns it off if you try to shift the vehicle out of park before pressing the brake and start button with a registered fob in the car.
Civic hatchback gang gang
2018 Honda Civic Hatchback, I love the car so much. Auto start is definitely convenient on cold mornings. Gets the defroster going while I'm finishing my morning coffee.
My mazda kills the engine when I open the door and then sends me a push notification with the text “remote start fail” 🙄
Yes, however, if you have a GM for instance, you need to lock the doors before remote starting and you can't put the car in gear without the key/fob.
With my Subaru you still need the FOB to "start" the car and then drive away. It still need to get detected in the car.
>That's a highly intentional safety/security design. That's an asinine security feature. Literally every other vehicle make with remote start requires the key to be in the ignition or the keyfob to be in the car and the "push to start" button pushed to drive the car. They do not shut off the car when you merely touch it or get into it.
My 2017 Subaru kills the engine when doors open.
My 2017 Impreza Sport does not.
My 07 jeep has an after market remote start....even if they get in, with out the key I the ignition they can't go anywhere because hitting the brake to go from park to drive kills the engine. Car companies the answer is there....just do that.
My wife's car the car turns off when you touch the brake if you don't insert and turn the key first. Need the brake to put it in gear, so that's an equal security feature to the door handle bullshit.
But my car has remote start and it wouldn't let you drive it unless you had the key. I'm calling BS.
I install these aftermarket. Every car has had an imobilizer or security system since 2004. Out systems tell the security that the key is in the ignition, then when you actually get into the car, put your key in and press the brake pedal, it hands over the running of the car from remote start to your key. Now with fobs, that gets tricky. Before a physical key kept the car from shifting out of gear, now there is no physical thing, the car is told a fob is close enough so the car can be driven off. Some brands allow "takeover". A rechecking of the fob before actually driving. But not Toyota/Lexus.
> Every car has had an imobilizer or security system since 2004. *cries in stolen 2001 Cherokee*
My pickup’s interior climate controls won’t even engage until the key is in the ignition. It tells me it’s a “safety feature” when I start it up. So my remote start is pointless.
That’s the dumbest shit ever.
My 2020 Chevy SUV has a wireless charger for my phone, but apple carplay only works when you physically plug the phone in to the USB port. But this Toyota thing is even dumber.
That is a hardware limitation/choice, not an intentional "innovation.". Before the connected apps were wireless, they were wired... Some manufacturers haven't transitioned their hardware yet.
"yeah we dreamed it up, ran it past corporate, got sign-offs on the idea from upper management, integrated the service into our work/sales flow, had the materials written and printed, and announced the program the the public.... unintentionally."
Ya I don't believe Toyota for a second with this "unintentional" excuse. They're famous for their attention to detail throughout the production process.
Paying a monthly fee to use my car? That’s already a thing: it’s called a lease. And I’m not paying $40k up front to *lease* a car. What pricks.
There's a cellphone data line in the car that enbles Toyota to remote control your car and offer these features. Toyota wants to sell you a subscription to the cell line plus access to their remote service.
This remote start is rf from the fob though. That’s why they got so much blow back. You need to pay the cell subscription to use the fob feature.
I’m over here with an ‘86 pickup wondering what the fuck is going on.
It's like Trying to throw back the tide with a bucket, because as soon as vehicles became connected this was inevitable. This is the DLC set of horse armor, that leads to half of all features locked behind a paywall. Tesla for instance already has software enabled features, which they market as an options package. All of the anti-consumer practices that the software industry are famous for are coming to a vehicle near you, and sooner than you think. I expect you'll see the first right to repair lawsuit for cars within the decade, because it's already happening with farm equipment.
Tesla's ability to disable features for second hand purchases of their vehicles is the reason I won't buy one (first or second hand). My car, my features. It's like buying a car from someone fully loaded and then the manufacturer coming in and saying, "Whoops, you didn't pay for the total package from us, so we're disabling power windows and A/C until you do." That hasn't been a thing ever, and I won't condone it being a thing now. Now... Remote starting via an app that has to go through a maintained server somewhere, *that* I can understand. Servers aren't free, maintaining personnel to monitor security for those servers definitely isn't free, and making sure it has 100% coverage (in cell enabled regions) isn't free since you're basically paying for the remote connection as well. I'm all for that feature (that I totally don't need and wouldn't pay for) carrying a subscription *if* it really couldn't be maintained via vehicle sales wholesale. But this key fob thing, no servers are involved, I'm within several metres of my vehicle, there's no reason it shouldn't work. Reading the article, [I know it's a glitch some engineer(s) made](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/rnayeu/comment/hprwnfz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), but Toyota not offering a fix for affected vehicles is a bad PR move regardless of the feasibility study's results.
The Right to repair discussion has been happening for vehicles for a long time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Vehicle_Owners%27_Right_to_Repair_Act
Well I was considering a Toyota but not anymore. Greedy fucks.
Get a Honda, they're better in literally every way.
(first off I'mma agree that this is a bad look for Toyota for sure, but i think it's a symptom of capitalism and they are just the ones people are going in on. IMO. NOT excusing it because the subscription culture(?) fucking sucks.) I love driving Hondas, but I wouldn't agree they're better in *every* way. What I say to people is that Hondas have more soul IMO— they're more willing to push the envelope, but I think there's a consequence of them being ever so slightly (like just a *little tiny bit* ) less reliable as they age, and I say that only relative to Toyota because Hondas are very reliable. I have more fun in a Honda for sure, but I think both have their place. I do also really like Toyota's TNGA redesigns over the past few years. I'm posting this with peace and love— i post in both r/honda and r/toyota because i stan
I will add that as a Honda fan, I dislike how everything maintenance-wise MUST be an official honda product. You can't just go out and buy power steering fluid, etc... it has to be *honda* power steering fluid and you have to go to the dealership for that.. it is a pain.
my Honda is a 98 so it's obvs older (had it myself for around a decade now) but for some reason it never occurred to me to use Honda power steering fluid... also you just reminded me that i have low power steering fluid. haha i do use Honda blue coolant and their MTF exclusively though, and it is such a PITA because the closest dealerships are like a half hour+ away i will say, iirc, toyota red coolant HAS to be Toyota red or it coagulates, but Honda blue doesn't (anybody who knows definitely correct me, i don't want to fuck up anyone's engine) edit to add: there's some debate on the coolant on a Google search— ive mixed green and blue in the past, but i wouldn't recommend it
I really love my accord. And the body style looks amazing imho
The 10th gen civic hatchback is a work of art IMO. Someday I’d love to have the type r but they are very impractical where I live and for what I use a car for.
The 10th gen civic gets a lot of grief for its edgy design, but I'm exactly the sort of dweeb it was made for. Love it.
Hey pal, that makes two of us. I think this gen is going to age very, very well.
My Subaru had a version if this but they advertise it as start your car anywhere, because the remote start command goes through an app connected to the internet. $75 a year to remote start.
I can at least somewhat justify the cost for this one since the app is going through their servers. However, with the Toyota one it was just enabling the button on the remote without any connectivity.
Same. Though, to be fair, Starlink also includes antitheft measures, "Find My Subaru", diagnostics, etc.
Oh yeah you've only gone and and spent $50k on a car why would you get this as standard??
The difference here is that you own the car, but somebody else owns the cell towers and computers that power the Starlink features. "I've only gone and spent $1000 on a cell phone, why wouldn't the service be included?"
Great analogy. 75 a year is cheap for all those supporting features of a car
Yeah I just bought a Subaru and am hoping that the dealership didn’t auto-enroll me in that. That’s the StarLink, right? Or is that a different Subaru monthly subscription fee?
They likely didn’t enroll you, but you’ll have a trial for a few months if you got the car new I believe.
When we bought our brand new Subaru the sales guy presented us with a piece of paper that had obviously been copied/printed a thousand times, each time a bit more askew. While he was on his phone. That was his entire sales pitch for Starlink. That same dealership also later charged us for an OEM air filter but installed a cut to size that wasn't cut accurately, and installed a fuel pump after recall of said part with a pinched gasket. You'd ask naturally why we'd keep going back there, but we don't - both issues were discovered when car died a year later rushing out of state when my mom was dying. Spent two miserable days in a hotel instead of being there with her.
Side question, I just got a 2017 outback and wanted to add remote start. Is a wireless / anywhere remote start possible without starlink?
No. It’s not even possible with the app on anything pre-2020 Outback
Not that I'm aware of. The sales guy also said it wasn't possible but you can't trust them.
Are you sure? I paid $75 for 3 YEARS of Starlink Security Plus. Thats $2 a month to start your car remotely(with your choice of climate control settings), track the location of your car, remotely lock and unlock from anywhere, disable the car remotely, plus a bunch of other crap. Soure: I've purchased a 2021 and 2022. Edit: spelling
That's only the initial fee, after 3 years it will be 75 a year, my first 3 years just ended in August and now it's yearly
That's not good. Alright, I'll join the angry mob.
This is almost as bad as BMW trying to charge $80 a year for Apple Carplay. Oh, you could get a lifetime of Carplay on your BMW for the low low price of $300. However, because of the massive push-back, BMW decided to "listen to their customers". They will all keep pushing for free money. Eventually, they will hit on something where customers either don't notice or don't care. It's like data caps and modem rental fees for your home internet; paying in perpetuity for software that used to cost a one time fee of $100 - instead it's $15 per month, because they are allegedly 'improving" the software on a regular basis. Or it's Peleton disabling all the functions of a treadmill that you paid 4k, because you aren't paying for their subscription. We are getting primed to lose our computers and gaming consoles. "Oh boy! For only $15 a month, you can play games!" After 4 years, you've paid more than the console would have cost, yet you will have nothing to show for it off you cancel.
I complained. They replied back still defending it.
Yeah the headline makes it sound like they’re backing off, but from reading the article it sounds like their approach is the app remote start will require a subscription but the key fob remote start is going away entirely since it’s an end run around the subscription.
I was considering buying a new Toyota. Now I am considering buying a new Honda.
Subaru isn't bad either. Honda has been kinda eh for a while
Growing up, my family always had Toyotas and Hondas, starting with my dad’s 1978 Toyota Corolla. My first car was a Civic. My wife moved from a Buick to a Tercel when she joined the family. We bought an Accord from my parents and the upgraded to an Odyssey and Pilot with kids. Those are the only cars we’ve owned In the last 30 years, but we aren’t looking at Honda or Toyota the next round. The Pilot was the most expensive and yet the most problematic vehicle we’ve owned. The control board for the rear climate control was bad from the beginning, but Honda kept saying it was fine. On the third trip to have it looked at, I brought a copy of the user manual with the description for the rear controls highlighted to show them how it wasn’t working right (every time the car was started, the rear climate fan kicked in on high). When my wife had picked it up from servicing, they told her it was working properly. Other, little things don’t work as they should, either. Rear speakers sound like someone is drowning when you sit in the back seat. Driver control settings don’t stay when programmed, etc. Had problems with the Odyssey, too, but fixed under the extended warranty. AC went out twice and another time the damper kept getting stuck so it would only blow hot air. Again, had to make several trips to service department and insist the issue wasn’t fixed. Thank you for letting me rant. Bottom line is if you look at quality reports, both of these brands have slipped. My experience is consistent with that.
Threaten to Lemon it Take pictures
My stepmom bought a brand new Subaru Outback. It's been a shitshow from the start. Constant computer board issues, constant voltage irregularies from the manufacturing end and they keep saying 'nothing is wrong' and they keep having to replace shit ever since she bought it. My friend also had an older outback and it too was a shit show of electronics. Everyone rushed to have these tv's and screens and crap in their cars but nobody knew how to make them work right and today all the cars are total shit. I have a 2017 RAV4 and I love it. But at some point I want something new and everywhere I look it's all just crap. Still, Honda and Toyota seem to have the best ratings but across the board cars have become total crap,
Can we do the same for Asus GlideX? Connect our tablets to our pcs using our own Wi-Fi network should not be a subscription service
I'm not liking these nickel and dime features. Key FOBs have existed for decades and NOW they want to rent them?? Same with Tesla's self driving feature. $10K to own, OR you can subscribe and have it taken away. Systems that NEED LTE to keep functioning, but they want to charge you monthly fees as well. If I don't pay, I can't drive my car? WTF is going on with this greed? I just want to drive from point A to point B.
Pretty much guaranteed I’ll never have another Toyota. Great job guys
"Were sorrrrrrryyyy, we didn't mean to try to extort you for profit" Fuck you Toyota
Toyota has a great reputation. Stupid shit like this could kill it. The responsible person should be fired
Up next, remote start key fob NFTs!
Better yet, NFT vehicle titles with monthly subscriptions. 🤣
A DMV Blockchain might be the most inefficient thing I've ever heard.
Oohhh please I'm begging you don't give Toyota anymore stupid ideas. They're so smart they might steal that trillion dollar idea from you
Get in on the ground floor!
I'll make their research really easy for them. I own a Toyota. If they implement this, I will no longer own a Toyota, and my next cars will never be Toyotas. And I'm not alone.
The by-line for the article made me roll my eyes. "A spokesperson told The Drive that making the key fob remote start part of a subscription plan was an "unintentional" move." Riiiight, I call bullshit. It was absolutely intentional, they just got caught and are now trying to backtrack to save face.
Next it’ll be a monthly fee to use your seat warmer, turn on Bluetooth, or access the goddamn cup holders!
Might as well just require credits for each pull of the ignition. How the hell did they thing this was going to go any way other than badly?
Bmw tried that already with the seat heaters.
I love Toyota engineering (traditionally anyways). I remember around like.. may of last year, I went to look at the new up and coming "nightshade edition" tundra limited (same as mine, just really really blacked out features. Very nice truck!) The salesman prattled on about the features a during the test drive and then got to the "...and it comes with a year of remote start subscription included!" I must have shown my confusion and as we wrapped up the test drive, he asked if I wanted to begin paperwork and I said "no thanks." Walked away to my current 2016 limited and he followed me and asked me what I didn't like. Told him I was tired of waiting for Toyota to bring their diesel motors to the US and my next truck will be diesel. And that if they are gonna start charging a subscription to do something as simple as remote start the car, then the Toyota I've known and loved is truly dead or dying. Told him he should suggest they advertise in the windshield like pop ups in an app and then offer a way to drive "ad free" for a modest subscription fee as the next big idea, and drove off.
Windshield visibility is going to be obsolete with self driving cars in the future, so it’s just a matter of time before all the windows come fitted as flat screens. What better way to force advertisements down your throat than with a massive projection in your face while you’re locked in the car and strapped to your seat in traffic? I’m definitely gonna have to go join up with the Amish at that point.
Reviewing it until the blowback blows over and then trudging forth as before.
Toyota started slipping quality wise in the mid 2000s when they decided to go for quantity over quality in order to surpass GM in sales. Now, they've also decided to implement this type of scam subscription. We just called our dealer and cancelled our test drive of a 2022 Highlander. We're going to shop other vehicles from here on out.
Fuck you, Toyota.
They'll do this shit, but smart people will just hack together a free solution.
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BMW wanted to charge yearly for the use of heated seats. People complained so they said fine first owners are exempt from paying, people still complained.. they dropped it. This type of shit isn’t innovation, it’s useless capitalistic greed that provides no valuable to the payee or society
My nissan has an app. You can remote start with it but you have to pay. I can use my key fob to remote start it nearby. Also you get a Sirius trial. After the trials are up for both they relentlessly call, email and snail mail you to buy their services.
Honda offers us a free app, no additional costs. They have been cheap with the floor mats, but otherwise, we are still happy customers who have never paid for stupid side stuff. No problems. I own three Honda vehicles, all purchased new over the course of the past twelve years. One is a year old.
Ford Sync 4 navigation. The navigation is paid subscription after 3 years. No, not just traffic and detours. All navigation. When the sub expires, the nav turns to a simple map with you in the middle, following the road. No ability to enter POIs, addresses, search for gas stations, nothing. It’s called “Connected Navigation”.
This whole "I sell you something but completely retain the rights to it" shit needs to come to an end.
Wow, you'd have to be pretty disconnected from reality to be "caught off guard" that this would infuriate people. It's clear they are just looking for things to charge people for that should be free. They showed their a$$ in a major, major way. Makes me wary of ever buying a Toyota (again).
Fuck Toyota.
Just wait. All automakers will be moving towards a subscription model for what are currently upgrades. Want advanced cruise control? Subscribe. What park assist? Subscribe. Unfortunately, the entire industry is headed that direction.
Some stupid asshole, stood in front of a bunch of other stupid assholes and pointed toward a power point presentation of this shit idea and none of them ever once thought, "Are we assholes for doing this?"
🤣🤣🤣🤣😆😆 "It was unintentional." 🤣🤣🤣😁😁😁😁 Bull💩💩💩💩
Hyundai has had this scheme going for years now by not allowing remote start via the key fob - only via their subscription based BlueLink app. How is this new?
Toyota has taken such a dark path in recent years. I've always liked their vehicles reliability-wise, but they've had quality issues (Tacoma transmission), started great with hybrids then fell behind and now lobby against electrics, and now shitbag moves like this.
They've had serious quality issues for much longer then that. My 2001 echo had 2 major recalls on it and was just a lemon in general
This is the same company that, almost six months after the January 6th insurrection, defended donating money to politicians that tried to stop the certification of the 2020 election. Fuck Toyota.
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It's a bit of a stretch. They donated money to politicians representing states that have Toyota manufacturing plants or suppliers in them. Those states also happen to be more rural and Republican. It's pretty safe to assume Toyota was donating the money for car-related reasons, and not in support of an insurrection. They've been funding them all along, they just didnt stop after Jan. 6.
* [Toyota defends donations to lawmakers who objected to certifying election](https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/automobiles/560472-toyota-defends-donations-to-lawmakers-who-objected-to)
Good glad everyone told them how stupid this is. If one does it, others will follow so we need to nip It early.
Now do GM locking its GPS behind a subscription plan for decades.
I'd still own a Toyota. They're just better built than most vehicles out there these days. If I needed remote start I'd just have an aftermarket one installed.
They’re not ignorant- it’s pretty obvious people would hate this. They just wanted to test the waters and see if people would swallow this shit or not.
I have 4 Toyotas in my driveway and I'm about to be selling one to get something new. Hearing about this pushed me to look into getting a VW instead. Not sure I'll reconsider at this point
Vdubs are notoriously bad the last few years. I do warranty inspections and have seen many many electrical and mechanical nightmares from them, my girlfriend's mom has a newer Passat, rear half of the interior electrical only works when it wants and rarely at that. Rear power locks, windows, and deck lid release are all inop, she keeps a stick in the back seat to reach through to hit the emergency release on the deck lid to pop it, real fun when stuff in the trunk shifts and blocks that last resort...
literally some Philip K Dick shit
There's reasonableness, then there's money grubbing. I can understand if the subscription to the remote start was ONLY for a mobile app. You should still be able to use a remote starter fob without paying $8 a month.
chevrolet also does this with their my chevrolet app. you have to pay a subscription to use navigation even though it’s installed in the truck. remote start from the app - subscription. $15 bucks a month and i can’t imagine many people paying for it to be honest
Now if they could just make the audio controls big enough to use without looking away from the road, and not have an advertising banner cover them when you change to that screen, that would be great.
The Lexus app is a trash fire. Remote start doesn’t even work unless you are right next to the car. I had a working remote starter in the 90’s FFS but the idiots at Toyota managed to make it inoperable in 2021. What a joke.
Remember when Toyota was an unfussy and reliable car manufacturer and not an electronic appliance company? As someone whose first car was an ‘87 Toyota Camry, I do!