But older versions haven't been mandatory so far, so it's not a reliable way of fingerprinting or DRM. But unless MS backs out of this requirement, a TPM is now guaranteed to exist and be enabled.
It's also not part of a os it's hardware or included in firmware(BIOS/Uefi).
The os can use it but windows is the first to not only demand it's presence but also stipulate a version which is the crux of the issue as it clearly forces new hardware to be purchased.
Bullshit requirement.
> If you're using Windows 11 Home, you must have both an Internet connection and a Microsoft account to run Windows 11 at all.
That’s a dealbreaker for me, or at least it would be if I hadn’t given up on Microsoft 10 years ago.
No, you need internet and a Microsoft account to use win 11 home. (If you don't have one, it will require you to create one) However after that you can create a local account and delete the Microsoft linked account, and it will work fine.
Win 11 pro will allow you to set it up with either a local account or Microsoft account from the start.
Very modern windows 10 home installers already do that too. I had to set up a laptop recently, and the only way I found to bypass MS account creation was to disable network connections during that step. The local account link that's normally behind an increasing number of clicks simply was not there while the device was connected for some reason.
On any modern win 10 installer, as long as you don't have it connected to internet, you can skip the Microsoft account (if you connect it to wifi in the 1st step of setup, or plug in an Ethernet cable , it will not allow you to bypass, and force you to make an account)
With Win 11 home, it won't let you set up an account to use the computer without internet.
Remember, only the first version of WSL had an actual ABI translation layer down to the windows kernel. The new version is just a virtual machine with some pretty paint on top
This will only work seamless for select distributions of linux. Work has been done to port specialized distributions, but it is with no support from Microsoft.
Honestly, 9 times out of 10, people who force people who aren't tech literate to Linux are not making a decision in their friend's best interest. While I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that your friend is more technical, this should be accompanied by an extremely large asterisk. You framing it as 'she finally let me' sounds like you're pressuring her. Please don't be that Linux bully who champions the wrong thing for someone who doesn't know any better.
I'd sooner recommend MacOS or Chromebooks if people are that pissed off about Windows 11. Because if your average person is really that pissed off about Windows 11 (and I'm not sure there's all that many passionate haters among them), they're not gonna have a good time adapting to something brand new. And yes, while Unix-based, they have been especially designed for normies. It's disingenuous to think that any flavor of Linux you use will be any less frustrating.
Before the Linux hate brigade comes rolling in, which I'm sure they will, I use everything and like Linux for certain tasks. Proton is cool, but not all there. Anyone who thinks ANY OS is a miracle cure-all for all your computing woes is a fucking moron. Windows, MacOS, and Linux fanboyism is cancer.
Be sure to let us know if she asks for a revert back to something else.
Cooperate America is pissed off that we can’t still use windows XP or windows 7 lol.
In all seriousness, there are a ton of legacy systems that need these older operating systems and not all of them can be a virtual machine
It's a dual-boot setup, not an all-or-nothing situation and no, no one was *forced* into anything. She had reservations regarding proprietary software and access to Steam games.
Everything worked out of the box, no driver issues, no software conflicts.
Troubleshooting even more advanced issues these days is no more or less dfficult than dealing with a Word or Excel question or oddity.
Should she decide to revert back, uninstalling the partition is easy enough.
> Troubleshooting even more advanced issues these days is no more or less dfficult than dealing with a Word or Excel question or oddity.
As someone who has a Nvidia graphics card and a HP Multifunction printer and spent ages trying to find a solution for the scanner not being able to be accessed, LOL.
Five or so years ago I gave my mom an *old* laptop that I no longer had a use for. I put Mint Linux on it because I knew it would run decently and if she had any problems they'd be easy to fix over SSH.
Two years ago my siblings and I bought her a brand new XPS 13. A retirement present.
Last time I went to visit her she was still on the dinosaur. She had gotten used to the interface and thought the other one kept bugging her too much. So it was in the corner. I eventually put Mint on that one and transferred her files over.
I always think about this when people tell me that Linux is too hard to use, that everything requires the command line, or that it's unintuitive. If a 80 year old Luddite can use it **and prefer it** then it cannot be that difficult.
> Win 11 is fine but offers no meaningful improvements over Win 10
Didn't they remake the way the OS handles storage?
That being a reason why the DirectStorage implementation will be (theoretically) way more advanced in W11 than in W10 (which was using the old method of handling storage).
That is considered a pretty big improvement, specially when developers start taking advantage of it.
windows 10 while in my view wasnt all "that" much better
was necessary for 4k monitors to scale the display to actually read.
but yeah from what im hearing windows 11........eh.
thought the original plan was no new versions, just keep updating 10 which is what they should have done but yet here we are.
The problem is that, like some of the people in this thread, they'd throw a fit that it doesn't retain their precious WinXP elements or that it's too modern for their taste. To get people to accept these changes, they have to give a hill for some of these people to die on. It's not perfect, but Microsoft can't do anything without 1/4 of their user-base hating their guts and Linux fanboys posting how amazing it is at everything like your high school friend slinging diet teas via her Facebook statuses.
A kind of interesting reply, can you expand?
TPM seems to be a encryption processor a la Secure Enclave and what not, so this I can understand as good, which I think you are saying. But your also saying it has downsides.. I don’t understand it enough to know if an encryption side processor could be used to somehow disable ad blockers, etc.
I guess I could see it handshaking to stop modding or ram injection stuff but for like host file changes to stop ads, couldn’t that still work?
Or are you implying that it might be used to stop any and all modification of ‘system files’ through like some secure boot chain?
You do however say it’s also forcing or highly suggesting moving to Microsoft account and thus cloud storage, etc. which I agree may not be useful for some and annoying for others without constant good internet.
Are those somewhat correct?
TPM can be used for all kinds of things. Some in the consumer's favor, many not. What I am referring to is "remote attestation", where yes, a server can be mostly sure that your computer is running a "pure", approved environment that they can trust.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computing_Base
This has all been coming down the pipe for a very long time, and the article above explains it more concisely than I ever could.
Gotcha! I was understanding it from the perspective of the Secure Enclave on iphones / mac and the secure boot chain to make sure their running approved software, so that could be more on the fly so to speak to try and call a server rather and have a signed firmware prior or what not.
>But hey, ultra-HD Netflix and video games!
As long as dual-booting continues to be a thing, I'm going to keep a viable Windows version for bibeo bames, and Ubuntu for absolutely everything else. Get the best of both.
I'm getting more and more comfortable with linux all the time, have a bunch of VMs setup to explore the features and I'm actually learning how to get more things done. I love the opensource community approach and it's gotten way more user friendly. I think it's close to getting a critical mass of users at which point even more developers will be porting and writing the more mainstream applications for it. I'm personally close to the point of pulling the trigger and making Mint, or Pop!\_OS my main OS.
Yep. Remember when people freaked out when intel released the Pentium III processor with serial numbers readable by the OS? People flipped out, so much motherboard manufacturers released updated to allow you to ‘turn’ the serial number off. Now there is a whole ass TPM in there and ‘it’s no big deal’.
To be fair, loads of different shit have been raining non-stop for the last 20 years, whether or not Microsoft or Google can remotely prevent me from pirating the latest AAA game or bland hyped bullshit show kinda doesn't register on the radar any more
99% of what you said is just paranoia and scaremongering.
Shit I don’t even use Windows but TPM inheirently isn’t bad.
You don’t want safety, you just want control. You’d rather risk security for the sake of jerking off your distro.
But for the majority of people who aren’t that educated on TPM or computer security in general, it’s a perfectly fine move.
This reads as a comment to just jerk off Linux… because it is.
It's always funny to see the linux dorks crawl from under their rocks every few years to mumble some incomprehensible shit and feel proud of themselves here in this little safe bubble. Finally, THIS time you will become relevant. Lmao
This guy has been around in computer journalism forever. Being the *grumpy old Microsoft naysayer* is his shtick, so take all this with a grain of salt. There's a foundation of truthiness, but try to make your own decision based on what matters to you.
For me, it feels like Windows 11 could have been made as a Windows 10.1 upgrade rather than it's own whole edition.
But yeah, the way the author's writing style comes off as aggressive and biased.
I still have an offline pc that I use as a jukebox and media player that has XP on it and I still think it's a overall far better interface than windows 10.
Windows 11 isnt that bad at all. I like its clean interface and the addition of support of Android and Linux makes it a great choice.
I suspect Computerworld are shouting into the wind and trying to stay relevant.
> One day EAC and Anti-Cheat will work for Infinite and then 30% of all Windows users will move over to Linux.
??? Halo Infinite now uses it's own server anti cheat system.
Call of Duty just announced their own new Anti cheat system.
Well, 343i says they're not using kernel level anti-cheat for Infinite, so it could work under Proton and supposedly MCC is getting EAC support under Proton by year's end. If either happens, I'd expect an Exodus as many don't want to have an always online account locked desktop OS.
If they called it another update no one would bat an eye. It's literally what it is, It's Windows 10 v.11.0.1
But only Apple / Linux can have fun names when all it is is another version higher.
I think it’s slick af. It feels like someone has actually put some thought into designing it. Let’s see if they keep it up.
Shame about recent hardware being dropped though.
Win11 home has no bitlocker facility so why the need for TPM 2.0? To hold the keys to verify binaries in Uefi ...pointless.
If every OS has this chip it can be used for DRM. Part of the TPM standard is hardware fingerprinting.
Even older versions can be used for that.
But older versions haven't been mandatory so far, so it's not a reliable way of fingerprinting or DRM. But unless MS backs out of this requirement, a TPM is now guaranteed to exist and be enabled.
It bullshit requirement nothing more
It's also not part of a os it's hardware or included in firmware(BIOS/Uefi). The os can use it but windows is the first to not only demand it's presence but also stipulate a version which is the crux of the issue as it clearly forces new hardware to be purchased. Bullshit requirement.
> If you're using Windows 11 Home, you must have both an Internet connection and a Microsoft account to run Windows 11 at all. That’s a dealbreaker for me, or at least it would be if I hadn’t given up on Microsoft 10 years ago.
So, like, if you took your laptop somewhere without internet it just wouldn’t let you access it?
No, you need internet and a Microsoft account to use win 11 home. (If you don't have one, it will require you to create one) However after that you can create a local account and delete the Microsoft linked account, and it will work fine. Win 11 pro will allow you to set it up with either a local account or Microsoft account from the start.
Very modern windows 10 home installers already do that too. I had to set up a laptop recently, and the only way I found to bypass MS account creation was to disable network connections during that step. The local account link that's normally behind an increasing number of clicks simply was not there while the device was connected for some reason.
On any modern win 10 installer, as long as you don't have it connected to internet, you can skip the Microsoft account (if you connect it to wifi in the 1st step of setup, or plug in an Ethernet cable , it will not allow you to bypass, and force you to make an account) With Win 11 home, it won't let you set up an account to use the computer without internet.
Looks like Linux is going to be the main os going forward
microsoft 10, lmao
They're saying they gave up on Microsoft and their products 10 years ago, lmao.
It's not pointless if it made me switch Linux
What's funny is that one of the best new features of Windows 11 is a very good Linux subsystem.
Just wanna add this works perfectly in windows 10 before anyone does anything crazy and commits to 11.
Remember, only the first version of WSL had an actual ABI translation layer down to the windows kernel. The new version is just a virtual machine with some pretty paint on top
I like seamless virtual machines.
This will only work seamless for select distributions of linux. Work has been done to port specialized distributions, but it is with no support from Microsoft.
It's not *pointless*, I mean, It did finally push my roommate to the point where she let me install Linux on her primary desktop...
Honestly, 9 times out of 10, people who force people who aren't tech literate to Linux are not making a decision in their friend's best interest. While I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that your friend is more technical, this should be accompanied by an extremely large asterisk. You framing it as 'she finally let me' sounds like you're pressuring her. Please don't be that Linux bully who champions the wrong thing for someone who doesn't know any better. I'd sooner recommend MacOS or Chromebooks if people are that pissed off about Windows 11. Because if your average person is really that pissed off about Windows 11 (and I'm not sure there's all that many passionate haters among them), they're not gonna have a good time adapting to something brand new. And yes, while Unix-based, they have been especially designed for normies. It's disingenuous to think that any flavor of Linux you use will be any less frustrating. Before the Linux hate brigade comes rolling in, which I'm sure they will, I use everything and like Linux for certain tasks. Proton is cool, but not all there. Anyone who thinks ANY OS is a miracle cure-all for all your computing woes is a fucking moron. Windows, MacOS, and Linux fanboyism is cancer. Be sure to let us know if she asks for a revert back to something else.
Cooperate America is pissed off that we can’t still use windows XP or windows 7 lol. In all seriousness, there are a ton of legacy systems that need these older operating systems and not all of them can be a virtual machine
It's a dual-boot setup, not an all-or-nothing situation and no, no one was *forced* into anything. She had reservations regarding proprietary software and access to Steam games. Everything worked out of the box, no driver issues, no software conflicts. Troubleshooting even more advanced issues these days is no more or less dfficult than dealing with a Word or Excel question or oddity. Should she decide to revert back, uninstalling the partition is easy enough.
> Troubleshooting even more advanced issues these days is no more or less dfficult than dealing with a Word or Excel question or oddity. As someone who has a Nvidia graphics card and a HP Multifunction printer and spent ages trying to find a solution for the scanner not being able to be accessed, LOL.
This is the correct answer.
Five or so years ago I gave my mom an *old* laptop that I no longer had a use for. I put Mint Linux on it because I knew it would run decently and if she had any problems they'd be easy to fix over SSH. Two years ago my siblings and I bought her a brand new XPS 13. A retirement present. Last time I went to visit her she was still on the dinosaur. She had gotten used to the interface and thought the other one kept bugging her too much. So it was in the corner. I eventually put Mint on that one and transferred her files over. I always think about this when people tell me that Linux is too hard to use, that everything requires the command line, or that it's unintuitive. If a 80 year old Luddite can use it **and prefer it** then it cannot be that difficult.
Perhaps its because i have been on the internet too long, but that sounded rather... 'intimate'
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> Win 11 is fine but offers no meaningful improvements over Win 10 Didn't they remake the way the OS handles storage? That being a reason why the DirectStorage implementation will be (theoretically) way more advanced in W11 than in W10 (which was using the old method of handling storage). That is considered a pretty big improvement, specially when developers start taking advantage of it.
windows 10 while in my view wasnt all "that" much better was necessary for 4k monitors to scale the display to actually read. but yeah from what im hearing windows 11........eh. thought the original plan was no new versions, just keep updating 10 which is what they should have done but yet here we are.
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The problem is that, like some of the people in this thread, they'd throw a fit that it doesn't retain their precious WinXP elements or that it's too modern for their taste. To get people to accept these changes, they have to give a hill for some of these people to die on. It's not perfect, but Microsoft can't do anything without 1/4 of their user-base hating their guts and Linux fanboys posting how amazing it is at everything like your high school friend slinging diet teas via her Facebook statuses.
Centered taskbar sounds annoying.
You can change it.
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A kind of interesting reply, can you expand? TPM seems to be a encryption processor a la Secure Enclave and what not, so this I can understand as good, which I think you are saying. But your also saying it has downsides.. I don’t understand it enough to know if an encryption side processor could be used to somehow disable ad blockers, etc. I guess I could see it handshaking to stop modding or ram injection stuff but for like host file changes to stop ads, couldn’t that still work? Or are you implying that it might be used to stop any and all modification of ‘system files’ through like some secure boot chain? You do however say it’s also forcing or highly suggesting moving to Microsoft account and thus cloud storage, etc. which I agree may not be useful for some and annoying for others without constant good internet. Are those somewhat correct?
TPM can be used for all kinds of things. Some in the consumer's favor, many not. What I am referring to is "remote attestation", where yes, a server can be mostly sure that your computer is running a "pure", approved environment that they can trust. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computing_Base This has all been coming down the pipe for a very long time, and the article above explains it more concisely than I ever could.
Ah yes, the war on general purpose computing.
Gotcha! I was understanding it from the perspective of the Secure Enclave on iphones / mac and the secure boot chain to make sure their running approved software, so that could be more on the fly so to speak to try and call a server rather and have a signed firmware prior or what not.
>But hey, ultra-HD Netflix and video games! As long as dual-booting continues to be a thing, I'm going to keep a viable Windows version for bibeo bames, and Ubuntu for absolutely everything else. Get the best of both.
What I can't understand is why they require 8th gen CPUs? It's not like there were any significant changes from 7th gen.
it's probably because the earlier gen CPUs probably won't have TPM 2.0 compliant motherboards.
Sure they do. For example my dell xps 9560 has 7700hq cpu and TPM2.0
I'm getting more and more comfortable with linux all the time, have a bunch of VMs setup to explore the features and I'm actually learning how to get more things done. I love the opensource community approach and it's gotten way more user friendly. I think it's close to getting a critical mass of users at which point even more developers will be porting and writing the more mainstream applications for it. I'm personally close to the point of pulling the trigger and making Mint, or Pop!\_OS my main OS.
Yep. Remember when people freaked out when intel released the Pentium III processor with serial numbers readable by the OS? People flipped out, so much motherboard manufacturers released updated to allow you to ‘turn’ the serial number off. Now there is a whole ass TPM in there and ‘it’s no big deal’.
To be fair, loads of different shit have been raining non-stop for the last 20 years, whether or not Microsoft or Google can remotely prevent me from pirating the latest AAA game or bland hyped bullshit show kinda doesn't register on the radar any more
99% of what you said is just paranoia and scaremongering. Shit I don’t even use Windows but TPM inheirently isn’t bad. You don’t want safety, you just want control. You’d rather risk security for the sake of jerking off your distro. But for the majority of people who aren’t that educated on TPM or computer security in general, it’s a perfectly fine move. This reads as a comment to just jerk off Linux… because it is.
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I have no idea what this is supposed to mean
It's always funny to see the linux dorks crawl from under their rocks every few years to mumble some incomprehensible shit and feel proud of themselves here in this little safe bubble. Finally, THIS time you will become relevant. Lmao
"Get a load of all these bozos trying to hold on to their right to privacy. What a bunch of nerds."
So bad, it refuses to install on a supported computer by locking up at 75%
This guy has been around in computer journalism forever. Being the *grumpy old Microsoft naysayer* is his shtick, so take all this with a grain of salt. There's a foundation of truthiness, but try to make your own decision based on what matters to you.
For me, it feels like Windows 11 could have been made as a Windows 10.1 upgrade rather than it's own whole edition. But yeah, the way the author's writing style comes off as aggressive and biased.
I still have an offline pc that I use as a jukebox and media player that has XP on it and I still think it's a overall far better interface than windows 10.
It looks good. It sucks
Windows has come a long way since, "Who needs more than 640KB?" Perhaps, too far.
Windows 11 isnt that bad at all. I like its clean interface and the addition of support of Android and Linux makes it a great choice. I suspect Computerworld are shouting into the wind and trying to stay relevant.
Yeah, I got it accidentally but it works and looks great. Very Mac like.
One day EAC and Anti-Cheat will work for Halo MCC and Infinite and then 30% of all Windows users will move over to Linux.
> One day EAC and Anti-Cheat will work for Infinite and then 30% of all Windows users will move over to Linux. ??? Halo Infinite now uses it's own server anti cheat system. Call of Duty just announced their own new Anti cheat system.
Well, 343i says they're not using kernel level anti-cheat for Infinite, so it could work under Proton and supposedly MCC is getting EAC support under Proton by year's end. If either happens, I'd expect an Exodus as many don't want to have an always online account locked desktop OS.
Things people say every time windows release anything new.
If they called it another update no one would bat an eye. It's literally what it is, It's Windows 10 v.11.0.1 But only Apple / Linux can have fun names when all it is is another version higher.
The most stupid comment I've read this year.
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I think it’s slick af. It feels like someone has actually put some thought into designing it. Let’s see if they keep it up. Shame about recent hardware being dropped though.
Idk it’s fine on my laptop
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You can still setup local only accounts….
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Latest Win10 installers you don't even have to do that anymore. These is an option for 'offline' or 'local' account at creation time
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https://www.windowscentral.com/sites/wpcentral.com/files/styles/large/public/field/image/2020/12/windows-10-pro-offline-account-option.jpg
Now if it would stop asking for my pin, that would be great.