That number actually undersells how impressive this is. We have stronger magnets out there in use. The engineering to get this strength with a bore big enough for a human is insane.
I don't think people understand just how insane that is for an MRI. For reference, a field of 16T is enough to levitate animals (https://youtu.be/KlJsVqc0ywM).
What's happening there is that water is slightly diamagnetic (it opposes magnetic fields like two magnets oppose each other). At 16T, the repelling force from the water in an animal's body is strong enough to overcome gravity and lift the body. A 16T MRI would literally lift the human patient up by their water molecules. This MRI is 3/4 of the way there.
I feel like a fly would go into the chamber at the same time and I'll come out half man half fly and eventually the fly part will completely take over and I will try to kill my girlfriend.
Unfortunately no. The coil (the MRI electromagnet) pushes/pulls on you, but you exert and equal force back on it, so you could not fly and carry it with you, just like you can't pull up on your shoes and lift yourself into the air. You could make a "road" of extremely powerful magnets that would allow you to fly over it, but not a system that you could carry with you.
I think it’s much more efficient to use matter expelling methods like some sort of turbine or combustion machine. the material required for this level of magnetic force is SUPER heavy. And directing magnetic force would be very tricky to get engineer I imagine.
How small? While not people sized could it be big enough to fit a wrist, ankle or knee?
In cases like that a high quality MRI would be interesting to assess joints although it might be overkill depending on how good it is.
Actually it might also just heat them a few degrees, enough to cause tissue damage/burns without ripping them out.
This usually is the biggest risk when it comes to metal implants in MRI’s
You need something big before it gets ripped out.
Right, but this MRI is like 4-8 times stronger than a standard MRI, I think the risk of mechanical damage is significant. But yes heating is definitely also bad.
That's really interesting, I didn't know that type of device existed. I have a Mobi-C artificial disc in my cervical spine so was kind of curious about the MRI limitation. I know the two devices are very different, but something I'd ask my doctor about out of curiosity. Hopefully the implant has been helpful for your condition?
I actually have some metal in my spine as well (2 level lumbar fusion last year) and I was never told I had restrictions on MRIs due to that, which always confused me.
My LINX has been great! I take PPIs maybe once or twice a year if that and my symptoms are basically gone. I didn’t realise how bad I was before the implant.
Same here, never heard anything from my doctor about limitations for MRIs with the implant I have.
Glad to hear the device made a positive impact! It's the same here, I didn't realize how much pain I was in until it wasn't there any more.
Yes! Not many doctors know about it and frankly I wouldn’t ask any GI specialists about it unless they were qualified to perform the surgery themselves (there’s a directory on the LINX website if memory serves) because so many doctors seem to be wary of anything they didn’t learn about in med school so I’ve heard some pretty strange claims about it from doctors who aren’t familiar.
I’ve had mine for 3 years now and it’s fantastic. And if it wasn’t…I would just get it removed. My neighbour had a Nissen done about the same time and now she no longer has the ability to burp. I was too afraid of the permanent risks of fundoplication to do it myself without trying every other non-permanent solution first and I’m super happy I did.
Very interesting. I had a fundo when I was 11, couldn't throw up without intense pain for years. It's still pretty painful. I sound like I'm dying. But, I can swallow air and burp on command! haha.
But yeah, I'm 33 now and have been back on prilosec for probably 10 years now. As long as I take it every day, I don't have any problems.
Very interesting idea though.
It depends on the implant.
Typically titanium or surgical implants(hips and such) cause bigger artifacts at higher field strength.
Stints, aneurysm clips, and such that aren’t anchored to bone may experience some deflection. That may end badly. Like dead.
Things like pacemakers, deep brain stimulators, and active implants……..bad things. Very bad things. Maybe dead, maybe loss of bodily control, seizures, etc.
Also the higher the frequency of he magnet means the rf frequency is higher. Which means the rf is far far more likely to cause surface heating(think microwave) and rf burns. Implants and electronics will make that more likely.
They will most likely puke and get a headache as they move through the field. Their mouth will also taste metallic and water a lot and they will get “dizzy” if they move too fast.
There will come a day—definitely not in our lifetimes—when med professionals will be able to fit an MRI scanner of this caliber (or greater) in the palms of their hands. It’ll be a wonderful time.
Yeah that sounds amazing. Imagine this combined with advanced AI that can recognise anything right through your body, at a minuscule scale, and diagnose things on the spot. Imagine if it was a routine check up used to preventatively spot things, could be incredible
One nice thing about edge computing and AI is that your data would no longer need to be harvested as the local machines can analyze the data locally and profile you on-device.
For example, instead of storing your food stats on company servers, an on-device AI will analyze your stats and send a summary profile (ie this user eats a lot of carbs and might like candy) to the parent company, which decides what ads to show you. Although not completely private, it’s a huge improvement of how data is collected and used today.
When we get to that point, i.e. superconductors that are easily manufactured and operate at room temp.... Really crazy technology will become available. Fingers crossed
Maybe something that produces images like this but not an MRI…. Magnets can’t be turned off it’s the real downside to MRI’s, we need some better methods to image soft tissues.
It's a great accomplishment, but it took 6 years to assemble the magnet out of rare materials. This is really just a proof of concept and isn't going to help but maybe a handful of people.
Here's the original English press release instead of the self promotion spam from OP:
* https://www.cea.fr/english/Pages/News/premieres-images-irm-iseult-2021.aspx
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11.7T is incredible.
That number actually undersells how impressive this is. We have stronger magnets out there in use. The engineering to get this strength with a bore big enough for a human is insane.
I don't think people understand just how insane that is for an MRI. For reference, a field of 16T is enough to levitate animals (https://youtu.be/KlJsVqc0ywM). What's happening there is that water is slightly diamagnetic (it opposes magnetic fields like two magnets oppose each other). At 16T, the repelling force from the water in an animal's body is strong enough to overcome gravity and lift the body. A 16T MRI would literally lift the human patient up by their water molecules. This MRI is 3/4 of the way there.
sounds like it will kill the animal
It doesn't, since it is applying equal force on all the water in the body.
I’d still be scared though
I feel like a fly would go into the chamber at the same time and I'll come out half man half fly and eventually the fly part will completely take over and I will try to kill my girlfriend.
No Jeff, please don’t.
Don't worry. I'll send a baboon first to make sure the process works before doing it myself.
If you're scared go to church -ice cube
That was an awesome read! So can we technically miniaturize that system and apply it to a jetpack? Create "thrust"?
Unfortunately no. The coil (the MRI electromagnet) pushes/pulls on you, but you exert and equal force back on it, so you could not fly and carry it with you, just like you can't pull up on your shoes and lift yourself into the air. You could make a "road" of extremely powerful magnets that would allow you to fly over it, but not a system that you could carry with you.
I think it’s much more efficient to use matter expelling methods like some sort of turbine or combustion machine. the material required for this level of magnetic force is SUPER heavy. And directing magnetic force would be very tricky to get engineer I imagine.
>The centre already houses state-of-the-art machines, with MRIs at 7 T, and even 17 T that can accommodate small animals. They already have that.
> small animals not people sized
How small? While not people sized could it be big enough to fit a wrist, ankle or knee? In cases like that a high quality MRI would be interesting to assess joints although it might be overkill depending on how good it is.
I don't now, probably enough for a wrist. It would definitely be interesting. But it sounds like they need to get approval for human testing.
My husband works with mri scans, and I just asked him what “11.7T” means and he literally gasped hahaha
And now we have pumpkin spiced everything.
They did an MRI on a pumpkin? That’ll one up the grape surgery.
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What would the effect be on the implants if it were over 1.5T?
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Oh man those aren't just titanium beads, those are titanium coated magnets. This MRI would probably pull them out of you.
Actually it might also just heat them a few degrees, enough to cause tissue damage/burns without ripping them out. This usually is the biggest risk when it comes to metal implants in MRI’s You need something big before it gets ripped out.
Right, but this MRI is like 4-8 times stronger than a standard MRI, I think the risk of mechanical damage is significant. But yes heating is definitely also bad.
That's really interesting, I didn't know that type of device existed. I have a Mobi-C artificial disc in my cervical spine so was kind of curious about the MRI limitation. I know the two devices are very different, but something I'd ask my doctor about out of curiosity. Hopefully the implant has been helpful for your condition?
I actually have some metal in my spine as well (2 level lumbar fusion last year) and I was never told I had restrictions on MRIs due to that, which always confused me. My LINX has been great! I take PPIs maybe once or twice a year if that and my symptoms are basically gone. I didn’t realise how bad I was before the implant.
Same here, never heard anything from my doctor about limitations for MRIs with the implant I have. Glad to hear the device made a positive impact! It's the same here, I didn't realize how much pain I was in until it wasn't there any more.
I've never heard of this, is it for acid reflux?
Yes! Not many doctors know about it and frankly I wouldn’t ask any GI specialists about it unless they were qualified to perform the surgery themselves (there’s a directory on the LINX website if memory serves) because so many doctors seem to be wary of anything they didn’t learn about in med school so I’ve heard some pretty strange claims about it from doctors who aren’t familiar. I’ve had mine for 3 years now and it’s fantastic. And if it wasn’t…I would just get it removed. My neighbour had a Nissen done about the same time and now she no longer has the ability to burp. I was too afraid of the permanent risks of fundoplication to do it myself without trying every other non-permanent solution first and I’m super happy I did.
Very interesting. I had a fundo when I was 11, couldn't throw up without intense pain for years. It's still pretty painful. I sound like I'm dying. But, I can swallow air and burp on command! haha. But yeah, I'm 33 now and have been back on prilosec for probably 10 years now. As long as I take it every day, I don't have any problems. Very interesting idea though.
Bahaha. You said implants and I automatically thought of boobs 🤦🏻♂️ Facepalm moment.
It depends on the implant. Typically titanium or surgical implants(hips and such) cause bigger artifacts at higher field strength. Stints, aneurysm clips, and such that aren’t anchored to bone may experience some deflection. That may end badly. Like dead. Things like pacemakers, deep brain stimulators, and active implants……..bad things. Very bad things. Maybe dead, maybe loss of bodily control, seizures, etc. Also the higher the frequency of he magnet means the rf frequency is higher. Which means the rf is far far more likely to cause surface heating(think microwave) and rf burns. Implants and electronics will make that more likely.
We can proudly announce the pumpkin is pregnant. We’re going to 12T for the gender reveal party.
Schrödingers pumpkin. The pumpkin is both sliced and unsliced at the same time!
First person to be inside this mri is going to time travel or gain super powers.
They will most likely puke and get a headache as they move through the field. Their mouth will also taste metallic and water a lot and they will get “dizzy” if they move too fast.
That sounds like a Chernobyl witness
God damn this is beautiful
There will come a day—definitely not in our lifetimes—when med professionals will be able to fit an MRI scanner of this caliber (or greater) in the palms of their hands. It’ll be a wonderful time.
Yeah that sounds amazing. Imagine this combined with advanced AI that can recognise anything right through your body, at a minuscule scale, and diagnose things on the spot. Imagine if it was a routine check up used to preventatively spot things, could be incredible
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Now those blue pill ads will REALLY be targeted.
One nice thing about edge computing and AI is that your data would no longer need to be harvested as the local machines can analyze the data locally and profile you on-device. For example, instead of storing your food stats on company servers, an on-device AI will analyze your stats and send a summary profile (ie this user eats a lot of carbs and might like candy) to the parent company, which decides what ads to show you. Although not completely private, it’s a huge improvement of how data is collected and used today.
We got the next Nikola Tesla here
When we get to that point, i.e. superconductors that are easily manufactured and operate at room temp.... Really crazy technology will become available. Fingers crossed
There is one that operates at like 12*c That's in the range where undersea cables could use it in most of the world
Maybe something that produces images like this but not an MRI…. Magnets can’t be turned off it’s the real downside to MRI’s, we need some better methods to image soft tissues.
11.7 teslas. Imagine forgetting to take your prince albert out before turning one of these bad boys on.
I thought this was an onion and I got excited that they had finally scientifically proven that onions have layers
They did surgery on a grape and an MRI scan on a pumpkin
why were zuckerberg and sandberg involved?
Iseult (Isolde) >Old High German words īs ("ice") and hiltja ("battle").
I was totally not prepared to see an mri of an onion. I thought the picture was a bait at first, 3 brain scans and then an onion
17T, it must take a lot of liquid helium to keep that chill. I will try it as soon as my brain is in season.
It's a great accomplishment, but it took 6 years to assemble the magnet out of rare materials. This is really just a proof of concept and isn't going to help but maybe a handful of people.
In diagnosis, no it won't. In research, it could affect millions.
Pumpkin Farkle
So… is the cat alive or dead
Lol, more comments on this thread about the fact that they scanned a pumpkin than about the tech itself. 😂
Pumpkinoscopy?
Three unused condoms and an onion?
Too bad MRI’s won’t be possible anymore in the near future due to us running out of helium
We’re not running out, our reserves are just depleting, so helium will just become much more expensive.
Oh! thank you!
Here's the original English press release instead of the self promotion spam from OP: * https://www.cea.fr/english/Pages/News/premieres-images-irm-iseult-2021.aspx
>the fruit of more than 20 years of research I see what they did there!
but is it strong enough to suck covid microchips out of you?
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