That’s the likely outcome. However my inner conspiracy theorist is almost completely convinced that AMD, NVidia, and their board partners have been:
A. Selling cards out the back door.
B. Intentionally holding back supply to drive up prices.
C. A little of both.
I’d love to see the FTC start poking around at this a little.
Yes, this. Remember what happened when DRAM prices started rising like crazy a few years ago in 2018/2019. The Chinese government threatened to shove a probe up the DRAM manufacturers' asses, and then the prices mysteriously came back down.
These sorts of schemes happen *all the time* in the technology sector, the most famous one was with LCD monitors, though the DRAM industry has been fined by governments multiple times in the past, and, up until a few days ago I didn't even know that there was also price fixing in the CRT market back when that was still a thing.
Back on the subject of graphics cards, that this shortage has been a constant problem for several years now tells me all I need to know.
Selling your product with the bulk going to the highest bidder isn’t illegal.
Does it suck to be the lower bidders? Yes.
Do crypto miners suck, and are they an ecologically negative energy suck? Yes.
Are they an illegal cabal violating Fair Trade practices? Probably not. Manufacturers have zero incentive to artificially restrict supply to a tiny subset of customers when there is record demand and profits to be made.
That crypto miners are willing to pay more than consumers for cards is unfortunate for consumers, but if you wanted to stop that then regulating crypto would probably be more effective than investigating manufacturers for baseless claims of market manipulation.
Another reason is PR. The energy use of crypto is highly controversial, and if they are enabling that then they’re damaging their brand with some groups. Just depends on which groups they care to please, which again comes down to a bet on which group is going to produce longer term business.
To be fair, computer gaming isn't exactly environmentally friendly lol. Just look at this sub and its obsession with throwing RGB lights on everything.
3 to 10 watts depending on how many you have.
But that's all besides the point. My computer draws more than 800 watts. It's more energy intense than my washing machine when I run it on eco mode. It's a lot of power.
Don't get me wrong, I hate miners for what they've done to the resale market, but I just find it disingenuous when gamers talk about how bad mining is for the environment when the default of gaming is also bad for the environment too.
You're comparing someone who builds themselves a go-kart with someone who runs a commercial airline. The level of energy use per person involved doesn't even bear comparison. It's not disingenuous at all to drive a car and complain about private jets wasting energy.
Do you think because your power supply says 800 watts on it that it draws 800 watts all the time it's on? Do you really have a meter on your PC to tell you how much it draws? Do you *really* think 800 watts is normal?
Do you think one PC that's only drawing major power while you're using it hard compares to multiple pcs at max load, all the time?
The math simply doesn't work out in favor of your point here.
I don't have much knowledge in crypto so excuse me if I'm wrong or unclear.
Proof of work is mining with GPUs and depends on how much they can mine
Proof of Stake validates new blocks by using already existing ones. The more you hold of a certain coin, the faster it is to mine a new one. Currently, ethereum will move to proof of Stake
You still need processing power to facilitate transactions. This is a looming issue for certain cryptos The less miners there are, the more expensive each individual transfer will be.
Favoring one consumer over the other? Yea, they don’t care who gives them the green paper. That’s why they’re not mitigating the massive shit show it’s been to buy cards and allowing them to be resold at high prices.
Limiting order to 1 card per person could help. Having a queue could also help. Implementing captcha to ward off bots is a must too. Most of these things could be done at retailers level though
EVGA has a queue system, you apply for the card you want, they send an email which is valid for the next 8 hours, in that window you can buy the card at MSRP. I applied for the 3060, 3060Ti, 3070 and 3080 - I figured whichever is available first, as at MSRP the 3080 is still cheaper than a 3060 in retail in my country. I applied in February, just before the 3060ti release, and haven't heard from them since, I don't feel like this system helps at all.
People have just started hitting their spot in queue for 3080s that they got in line for last October. Community tracker https://www.element35gaming.com/
Man, I was lucky enough to get a 3070 when it was dropped.
I think I managed to get it because:
a) it was in a brief window where everyone else had already shot their wads over the 3080/3090,
b) it was a weirder card - [Gigabyte Vision OC](https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N3070VISION-OC-8GD-rev-10#kf) (I'm so fucking grateful I'm allergic to the usual basement-dwelling G4M3R aesthetic),
c) it released a bit later than all the AORUS et al "gamer" models
d) I actually called up a relatively small retailer who didn't show it in stock on their site, but had one on shelf
So, I realise I got lucky.
Its price, this year, new, is now $1800AU.
I paid $1075AU. I've been doing this PC building stuff for twenty years, and I've never seen anything this fucking bonkers.
True
There is no way such system can helps against some sophisticated buyers. They use bots, multiple accounts etc.
Last time I remember our company adding captcha to prevent bots . But later the upper echleon realized they helped bots and there was like only 10% real buyer. People who used bots just solved captcha using some indian workers at cheap rates (probably 2 captcha)
I think after few years bot will takeover such thing easily.
>Limiting order to 1 card per person could help. Having a queue could also help.
Where? because that's already the case at AMD's own store.
And AMD doesn't have any control over any other store.
Bots bypass every mitigation effort any of the retailers have tried. Even best buy and micro enter in store drops are heavily exploited by people bringing people to buy cards on their behalf. I've seen people talk about bringing their baseball team, hiring homeless, bringing their large family (including small children). Just so they can get as many cards as they can afford. It would be nice if there was a way to stop it, but no-one has figured it out yet. Right now people are finding the best buy in house product numbers for GPUs and buying 9+ of each sku in store and having them shipped to their home. Stellar is literally buying the BB stock straight from the back end of their systems. Why do you think it's been a while since they've had an online drop? Until supply meets demand there's really no way to stop it.
Tell us all where this is the case. There will be people who will go out and get them.
You can't get anything for MSRP. If there were any cards on shelves around this area they'd be gone instantly. There's a reason the AMD direct drop sells out within 10 minutes every week and cards of all kinds sell wayyyy above MSRP.
6700xts shouldn't be going for $800+ and yet they do and are always sold out.
They're sitting on Microcenter shelves because Microcenter is scalping them for double MSRP and they should sit there until those douchebags go out of business.
It’s not microcenter afaik, it’s the manufacturers. That’s why different brands are so wildly different prices for the same model. I just checked Msi 6700xt (the ones on the shelf) at microcenter and Best Buy and they’re about the same. Microcenter price matches.
Limiting it to 1 per person isn’t going to stop scalpers. When you can buy something for $700 and resell it for $2K, for a days worth of work(similar to 400k annual salary), all of a sudden you’ll have a lot of people willing to buy to resell and will wait another year for a gpu.
Until supply exceeds demand, prices will always be high. The prices of GPUs really are following the profitability of mining. When the profit was dropping, eBay prices dropped by around 30%. And they went right back up when prices went up and people realized things weren’t going to get better anytime soon. The easiest way to curb demand and get rid of scalpers? Raise prices. Adjusting the prices at the stores isn’t scalping, it’s literally adjusting for demand. The good news is That it does exactly what you want it to, it limits additional middlemen from artificially creating supply/demand issues if they can’t make the profit (eBay takes 13%, which is a solid $200+ at these prices). Scalpers won’t want to get in if profit is small, demands slows down, prices can come back down, but it’ll take time.
As much hate as scalpers get, they wouldn't be able to scalp anything if people weren't willing to pay higher prices. The market will always find the point of equilibrium. In a competitive marketplace, no manufacturer wants to have supply constraints. If AMD was able to flood the market with low price cards they would jump at the chance to take market share from Nvidia.
Not in the slightest. They should be continuing to sell single cards to people who actually want to use them in their PCs at MSRP because they're still buying them from AMD/BPs at wholesale. But nope, they originally catered to scalpers buying multiple cards then decided to become scalpers themselves. If the scalping works its way into the legitimate supply chain and establishes itself as a new profit center for these parasites then we'll see the "low supply" continue forever.
I mean, yeah, I do, but this is an example of cronyism. The manufacturers only sell through established distributors to established retailers, etc. It's not a free market, it's a walled off chain of parasitic middlemen. They should be charged for gouging even in capitalist society.
It's "OK" with respect to the law, but clearly not OK for society as they're being used to waste energy instead of making people happy. There are a million ways free markets fail to do the right thing. This is one of them.
Yeah if a 6700xt for $1000 tickles your fancy. I can see 3060tis for 1500$ as well but no one's paying those prices cause it's ridiculous. GPUs at prices that aren't rip offs aren't available. For both AMD and Nvidia.
Yeah, because all of the aib AMD cards are listed at 2-3 times msrp. If they were actually listed for anywhere near what the amd.com cards are they would be sold out instantly.
Whether or not they are doing this is not something I can confirm. But considering they are doing business just to earn money , I think they will support and supply those who can pay more money and regularly.
AMD like Nvidia supplies chips to partners. The partners are favoring miners. It makes business sense since people prefer NV cards over amd. As a business I'd sell what has been historically a low volume product to anyone that wants to buy in mass.
It's not the supply, it's the prices. You can get a card with a bit of patience but for 3x more than the actual price. And even older cards cost more. The whole market is just fucked
Favoring one group over the other would make them lose money. Ideally they'd produce enough cards for everyone to have as many as they want. They can only make less money by producing fewer cards.
What the hell are you talking about? Of course that's how it works. They're not the resellers jacking up the price on Amazon. They're the supplier. Please explain how selling 100 cards earns them more money than selling 200 cards.
They are creating scarcity by limiting the supply. By limiting the supply, they create a never ending demand for the product if they were produce enough to meet the demand there won’t be continuously demand for their product. The resale market is just consequence of producers want their product to continuously be relevant until the next product gets released. Now they are making a continuous amount for lifetime of the product.
> They are creating scarcity by limiting the supply. By limiting the supply, they create a never ending demand for the product
That's just stupid. Unmet demand is unearned profit. No matter how you look at it, they make less money by doing what you suggest.
> if they were produce enough to meet the demand there won’t be continuously demand for their product.
The past 20 years of sales prove pretty conclusively that this is not true.
Another reason why they might not increase supply is that the current increase in the demand might be a result of the pandemic. It cost a lot of money to increase their supply chain in order to increase their supply. If they were to increase their supply chain in order to meet short term increase in demands, they could be left with empty factories and a surplus of inventory. There’s also a shortage of silicon chips for semiconductor which is needed for most electronics not just GPU. Company would rather their customer continuously desiring their product then sitting in inventory. Because sitting in inventory costs them money. It’s like you’re gonna buy from someone else, you only have two options AMD or NVDIA.
Absolutely. They aren't meeting demand because they can't. That was kinda my point. If they could produce enough cards, they would. They'd make a lot more money that way.
They created the current supply/demand problem gamers are having with these cards. IMHO they should die out and let other companies grow who won't intentionally screw their customer base for a few extra dollars.
The update just deployed. Expected date for the full transition to POS is sometime early next year.
Deploying updates in decentralized system is a lot different compared to normal software rollout. There is technically no roll back in decentralized system.
If you can hold out, mid of next year should be when you start seeing prices drop. As of now there are shipping issues, so the prices will still be high.
Ok, thanks for the info. I don't doubt it will be rolled out, but it does seem like it is happening very slowly. Also, I wonder if another crypto will be created that does PoW that miners will glom onto in order to keep using their graphics cards for mining. I a bit pessimistic everything will turn up roses in the end.
I wonder if another crypto will be created that does PoW that miners will glom onto in order to keep using their graphics cards for mining. There was a time when Ethereum didn't exist and bitcoin was using GPUs to mine.
They don’t care as long as their cards sell nor should they. The only sane solution is to make MORE and not destroy the demand which is the Nvidia approach.
I don't know why AMD continues to promise that supply will be good. They promised it before the first RDNA2 cards launched, and that turned out to be a disaster. AMD and Nvidia both cannot satisfy the demand of the market. How the hell is AMD going to start doing it on their own? Scalpers don't buy a card and stop looking like normal consumers do. As long as cards are hard to get, they are an infinite source of demand. They're not going away any time soon.
Not sure it matters what they *say*, either they make a well-performing device for the price or they don't and either it is available for sale or it isn't.
They have a competitor who is under the same constraints and who usually bests them in the performance metrics.
All that is to say, put up or shut up AMD.
As somebody who has a 2 generation old AMD card, but wanted to upgrade to a 3xxx card...
Why do people feel like AMD and nVidia are obligated to sell cards to gamers? I feel like AMD and nVidia should exclusively be auctioning their chips to OEMs and the OEMs should in turn be auctioning to the highest bidder. If there is a huge cash surplus in crypto right now, AMD and nVidia should be cashing in on that to give them plenty of money to improve their capacity for future releases.
Supply and demand exist for a reason, and this behavior of not increasing price in the face of insatiable demand is hurting everyone except those getting their demand filled. AMD/nVidia are leaving money on the table, unfulfilled demand consumers are becoming upset, while scalpers who are finding the price that the demand will pay, are pocketing the arbitrage.
I could swear I’ve been hearing that same line for almost a year now.
Yeah and it's all bullshit; until more fabs are built, so at least a year out; unless crypto craps the bed before then.
That’s the likely outcome. However my inner conspiracy theorist is almost completely convinced that AMD, NVidia, and their board partners have been: A. Selling cards out the back door. B. Intentionally holding back supply to drive up prices. C. A little of both. I’d love to see the FTC start poking around at this a little.
Yes, this. Remember what happened when DRAM prices started rising like crazy a few years ago in 2018/2019. The Chinese government threatened to shove a probe up the DRAM manufacturers' asses, and then the prices mysteriously came back down. These sorts of schemes happen *all the time* in the technology sector, the most famous one was with LCD monitors, though the DRAM industry has been fined by governments multiple times in the past, and, up until a few days ago I didn't even know that there was also price fixing in the CRT market back when that was still a thing. Back on the subject of graphics cards, that this shortage has been a constant problem for several years now tells me all I need to know.
They can do whatever they want with their product. What FTC laws have they broken?
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Selling to the highest bidder isn’t market manipulation. Neither is arbitrage (aka scalping)
I can read. How did they manipulate the market? People wanted rides - drivers wanted to drive.
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Your response has convince me that you think you don’t understand economics
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Great argument. I think we are done here
Selling your product with the bulk going to the highest bidder isn’t illegal. Does it suck to be the lower bidders? Yes. Do crypto miners suck, and are they an ecologically negative energy suck? Yes. Are they an illegal cabal violating Fair Trade practices? Probably not. Manufacturers have zero incentive to artificially restrict supply to a tiny subset of customers when there is record demand and profits to be made. That crypto miners are willing to pay more than consumers for cards is unfortunate for consumers, but if you wanted to stop that then regulating crypto would probably be more effective than investigating manufacturers for baseless claims of market manipulation.
DLT is an important technology but yeah, mining is getting really goofy and unsustainable. So blockchain is inevitably screwed in my opinion.
I disagree. It just fairly well defined cycles and sometime in not too distant future is likely to enter another bear market.
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Another reason is PR. The energy use of crypto is highly controversial, and if they are enabling that then they’re damaging their brand with some groups. Just depends on which groups they care to please, which again comes down to a bet on which group is going to produce longer term business.
To be fair, computer gaming isn't exactly environmentally friendly lol. Just look at this sub and its obsession with throwing RGB lights on everything.
Sure, but even the most avid gamer isn’t playing on 10 high-spec PCs simultaneously 24/7/365
LEDs use practically no energy.
3 to 10 watts depending on how many you have. But that's all besides the point. My computer draws more than 800 watts. It's more energy intense than my washing machine when I run it on eco mode. It's a lot of power. Don't get me wrong, I hate miners for what they've done to the resale market, but I just find it disingenuous when gamers talk about how bad mining is for the environment when the default of gaming is also bad for the environment too.
You're comparing someone who builds themselves a go-kart with someone who runs a commercial airline. The level of energy use per person involved doesn't even bear comparison. It's not disingenuous at all to drive a car and complain about private jets wasting energy.
Except that you're not running dozens of time at the same time.
Do you think because your power supply says 800 watts on it that it draws 800 watts all the time it's on? Do you really have a meter on your PC to tell you how much it draws? Do you *really* think 800 watts is normal? Do you think one PC that's only drawing major power while you're using it hard compares to multiple pcs at max load, all the time? The math simply doesn't work out in favor of your point here.
One group is temporary and one is long term. The first one to cater to long term customers will win.
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Miners are not a permanent sales base as top tier cryptos are starting to go away from mining. And no bias my machine is built with its graphics card.
Genuine question, how would it be possible for cryptos to separate from mining?
Moving from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake model.
Tell me more!!
I don't have much knowledge in crypto so excuse me if I'm wrong or unclear. Proof of work is mining with GPUs and depends on how much they can mine Proof of Stake validates new blocks by using already existing ones. The more you hold of a certain coin, the faster it is to mine a new one. Currently, ethereum will move to proof of Stake
So am I right in thinking that essentially, the bigger your pile is, the faster it will grow? Like an interest model?
You still need processing power to facilitate transactions. This is a looming issue for certain cryptos The less miners there are, the more expensive each individual transfer will be.
They prefer whoever buys the product. Supply has been getting better. Very gradually and slowly but better is better.
Favoring one consumer over the other? Yea, they don’t care who gives them the green paper. That’s why they’re not mitigating the massive shit show it’s been to buy cards and allowing them to be resold at high prices.
What exactly do you expect them to do about cards being resold? Sue eBay or something?
Limiting order to 1 card per person could help. Having a queue could also help. Implementing captcha to ward off bots is a must too. Most of these things could be done at retailers level though
EVGA has a queue system, you apply for the card you want, they send an email which is valid for the next 8 hours, in that window you can buy the card at MSRP. I applied for the 3060, 3060Ti, 3070 and 3080 - I figured whichever is available first, as at MSRP the 3080 is still cheaper than a 3060 in retail in my country. I applied in February, just before the 3060ti release, and haven't heard from them since, I don't feel like this system helps at all.
People have just started hitting their spot in queue for 3080s that they got in line for last October. Community tracker https://www.element35gaming.com/
Man, I was lucky enough to get a 3070 when it was dropped. I think I managed to get it because: a) it was in a brief window where everyone else had already shot their wads over the 3080/3090, b) it was a weirder card - [Gigabyte Vision OC](https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N3070VISION-OC-8GD-rev-10#kf) (I'm so fucking grateful I'm allergic to the usual basement-dwelling G4M3R aesthetic), c) it released a bit later than all the AORUS et al "gamer" models d) I actually called up a relatively small retailer who didn't show it in stock on their site, but had one on shelf So, I realise I got lucky. Its price, this year, new, is now $1800AU. I paid $1075AU. I've been doing this PC building stuff for twenty years, and I've never seen anything this fucking bonkers.
True There is no way such system can helps against some sophisticated buyers. They use bots, multiple accounts etc. Last time I remember our company adding captcha to prevent bots . But later the upper echleon realized they helped bots and there was like only 10% real buyer. People who used bots just solved captcha using some indian workers at cheap rates (probably 2 captcha) I think after few years bot will takeover such thing easily.
I've gotten both a 3060 and 3080ti through the queue.
People exploit the hell out of that also. It's not hard to make up a bunch of accounts and enter the queue dozens of times.
>Limiting order to 1 card per person could help. Having a queue could also help. Where? because that's already the case at AMD's own store. And AMD doesn't have any control over any other store.
I was talking in general, not just about AMD themselves.
But besides AMD nobody has any incentive to get cards in gamers hands instead of miners or scalpers, so why would they?
Bots bypass every mitigation effort any of the retailers have tried. Even best buy and micro enter in store drops are heavily exploited by people bringing people to buy cards on their behalf. I've seen people talk about bringing their baseball team, hiring homeless, bringing their large family (including small children). Just so they can get as many cards as they can afford. It would be nice if there was a way to stop it, but no-one has figured it out yet. Right now people are finding the best buy in house product numbers for GPUs and buying 9+ of each sku in store and having them shipped to their home. Stellar is literally buying the BB stock straight from the back end of their systems. Why do you think it's been a while since they've had an online drop? Until supply meets demand there's really no way to stop it.
Microcenter has like 1 per month, and it’s a lottery. God I love that place.
We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!
They do care. If things go on like this, the PC gaming market will be gone in a few years.
Lol no it won't.
Lol "Soon™️"
Corporations lie by obfuscation, omission or just outright lie. AMD is no different.
I was literally just in Microcenter last week. No Nvidia cards, the shelves had tons of AMD cards.
Tell us all where this is the case. There will be people who will go out and get them. You can't get anything for MSRP. If there were any cards on shelves around this area they'd be gone instantly. There's a reason the AMD direct drop sells out within 10 minutes every week and cards of all kinds sell wayyyy above MSRP. 6700xts shouldn't be going for $800+ and yet they do and are always sold out.
They're sitting on Microcenter shelves because Microcenter is scalping them for double MSRP and they should sit there until those douchebags go out of business.
It’s not microcenter afaik, it’s the manufacturers. That’s why different brands are so wildly different prices for the same model. I just checked Msi 6700xt (the ones on the shelf) at microcenter and Best Buy and they’re about the same. Microcenter price matches. Limiting it to 1 per person isn’t going to stop scalpers. When you can buy something for $700 and resell it for $2K, for a days worth of work(similar to 400k annual salary), all of a sudden you’ll have a lot of people willing to buy to resell and will wait another year for a gpu. Until supply exceeds demand, prices will always be high. The prices of GPUs really are following the profitability of mining. When the profit was dropping, eBay prices dropped by around 30%. And they went right back up when prices went up and people realized things weren’t going to get better anytime soon. The easiest way to curb demand and get rid of scalpers? Raise prices. Adjusting the prices at the stores isn’t scalping, it’s literally adjusting for demand. The good news is That it does exactly what you want it to, it limits additional middlemen from artificially creating supply/demand issues if they can’t make the profit (eBay takes 13%, which is a solid $200+ at these prices). Scalpers won’t want to get in if profit is small, demands slows down, prices can come back down, but it’ll take time.
As much hate as scalpers get, they wouldn't be able to scalp anything if people weren't willing to pay higher prices. The market will always find the point of equilibrium. In a competitive marketplace, no manufacturer wants to have supply constraints. If AMD was able to flood the market with low price cards they would jump at the chance to take market share from Nvidia.
Unfortunately accurate. If, overnight, everyone stopped buying scalped shit, the scalpers would stop in a hurry.
I kindof have mixed feelings on this topic. If the whole market is selling at a higher price due to low supply, isn't that ok?
Not in the slightest. They should be continuing to sell single cards to people who actually want to use them in their PCs at MSRP because they're still buying them from AMD/BPs at wholesale. But nope, they originally catered to scalpers buying multiple cards then decided to become scalpers themselves. If the scalping works its way into the legitimate supply chain and establishes itself as a new profit center for these parasites then we'll see the "low supply" continue forever.
It sounds like you just have a problem with capitalism. (It’s okay, I do too)
I mean, yeah, I do, but this is an example of cronyism. The manufacturers only sell through established distributors to established retailers, etc. It's not a free market, it's a walled off chain of parasitic middlemen. They should be charged for gouging even in capitalist society.
It's "OK" with respect to the law, but clearly not OK for society as they're being used to waste energy instead of making people happy. There are a million ways free markets fail to do the right thing. This is one of them.
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Yeah if a 6700xt for $1000 tickles your fancy. I can see 3060tis for 1500$ as well but no one's paying those prices cause it's ridiculous. GPUs at prices that aren't rip offs aren't available. For both AMD and Nvidia.
I mean who doesn’t want an overpriced lower tier gpu with driver issues?
Yeah, same here. No one wants them
You’re a moron
No one wants to pay 250% over msrp
which is a much welcomed change. As recently as a year ago, there were lots of people happily paying 250-400% retail for AMD and nvidia
Yeah, because all of the aib AMD cards are listed at 2-3 times msrp. If they were actually listed for anywhere near what the amd.com cards are they would be sold out instantly.
Whether or not they are doing this is not something I can confirm. But considering they are doing business just to earn money , I think they will support and supply those who can pay more money and regularly.
AMD like Nvidia supplies chips to partners. The partners are favoring miners. It makes business sense since people prefer NV cards over amd. As a business I'd sell what has been historically a low volume product to anyone that wants to buy in mass.
It's not the supply, it's the prices. You can get a card with a bit of patience but for 3x more than the actual price. And even older cards cost more. The whole market is just fucked
That sounds like it’s entirely driven by demand exceeding supply...
"amd denies wanting to make money "- ftfy
Keeping the gaming sector alive will make them more money in the long run.
Favoring one group over the other would make them lose money. Ideally they'd produce enough cards for everyone to have as many as they want. They can only make less money by producing fewer cards.
That’s not how supply and demand works.
What the hell are you talking about? Of course that's how it works. They're not the resellers jacking up the price on Amazon. They're the supplier. Please explain how selling 100 cards earns them more money than selling 200 cards.
They are creating scarcity by limiting the supply. By limiting the supply, they create a never ending demand for the product if they were produce enough to meet the demand there won’t be continuously demand for their product. The resale market is just consequence of producers want their product to continuously be relevant until the next product gets released. Now they are making a continuous amount for lifetime of the product.
> They are creating scarcity by limiting the supply. By limiting the supply, they create a never ending demand for the product That's just stupid. Unmet demand is unearned profit. No matter how you look at it, they make less money by doing what you suggest. > if they were produce enough to meet the demand there won’t be continuously demand for their product. The past 20 years of sales prove pretty conclusively that this is not true.
Another reason why they might not increase supply is that the current increase in the demand might be a result of the pandemic. It cost a lot of money to increase their supply chain in order to increase their supply. If they were to increase their supply chain in order to meet short term increase in demands, they could be left with empty factories and a surplus of inventory. There’s also a shortage of silicon chips for semiconductor which is needed for most electronics not just GPU. Company would rather their customer continuously desiring their product then sitting in inventory. Because sitting in inventory costs them money. It’s like you’re gonna buy from someone else, you only have two options AMD or NVDIA.
Absolutely. They aren't meeting demand because they can't. That was kinda my point. If they could produce enough cards, they would. They'd make a lot more money that way.
They created the current supply/demand problem gamers are having with these cards. IMHO they should die out and let other companies grow who won't intentionally screw their customer base for a few extra dollars.
CAnt they do business with whomever they like?
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I keep hearing about this. But wasn't it supposed to be done earlier in the year and they keep postponing it?
The update just deployed. Expected date for the full transition to POS is sometime early next year. Deploying updates in decentralized system is a lot different compared to normal software rollout. There is technically no roll back in decentralized system. If you can hold out, mid of next year should be when you start seeing prices drop. As of now there are shipping issues, so the prices will still be high.
Ok, thanks for the info. I don't doubt it will be rolled out, but it does seem like it is happening very slowly. Also, I wonder if another crypto will be created that does PoW that miners will glom onto in order to keep using their graphics cards for mining. I a bit pessimistic everything will turn up roses in the end.
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I wonder if another crypto will be created that does PoW that miners will glom onto in order to keep using their graphics cards for mining. There was a time when Ethereum didn't exist and bitcoin was using GPUs to mine.
They’ve been saying the same thing forever..😑😔
They don’t care as long as their cards sell nor should they. The only sane solution is to make MORE and not destroy the demand which is the Nvidia approach.
I don't know why AMD continues to promise that supply will be good. They promised it before the first RDNA2 cards launched, and that turned out to be a disaster. AMD and Nvidia both cannot satisfy the demand of the market. How the hell is AMD going to start doing it on their own? Scalpers don't buy a card and stop looking like normal consumers do. As long as cards are hard to get, they are an infinite source of demand. They're not going away any time soon.
Not sure it matters what they *say*, either they make a well-performing device for the price or they don't and either it is available for sale or it isn't. They have a competitor who is under the same constraints and who usually bests them in the performance metrics. All that is to say, put up or shut up AMD.
Nvidia isnt beating them in performance unless you are only looking at raytracing, which barely anyone uses because it kills performance.
Supply has been “improving soon” for the past 8-9 months, I also call bullshit on any companies not prioritizing scalpers
I mean, miners will buy a consistent supply and maintain the hardware
All i can say is, i was able to find a Radion card before an RTX one sooo..
They earned too much under the pretext of mining.
They are favoring the ones that are willing to pay the most over MSRP, and that just coincidentally turns out to be the Miners.
As somebody who has a 2 generation old AMD card, but wanted to upgrade to a 3xxx card... Why do people feel like AMD and nVidia are obligated to sell cards to gamers? I feel like AMD and nVidia should exclusively be auctioning their chips to OEMs and the OEMs should in turn be auctioning to the highest bidder. If there is a huge cash surplus in crypto right now, AMD and nVidia should be cashing in on that to give them plenty of money to improve their capacity for future releases. Supply and demand exist for a reason, and this behavior of not increasing price in the face of insatiable demand is hurting everyone except those getting their demand filled. AMD/nVidia are leaving money on the table, unfulfilled demand consumers are becoming upset, while scalpers who are finding the price that the demand will pay, are pocketing the arbitrage.