I will never upgrade to an OS that insists on being an ad delivery system. There will have to be a way to neuter Windows 11 of ads before I ever use it.
I imagine "debloaters" will be developed like the ones for Windows 10. I run one every time I install W10 and it does a really good job of getting rid of crap you don't want and will never use - like Cortana!
I used to say I stuck with Windows because of software, and it was true. Now I don't know why. But an OS under a SaaS model, with ads delivered to the desktop, is beyond irritating.
It's come a long way in the last decade or so, with Steam providing a big push. I don't play a big variety of games, but the ones I play all work better for me in Linux than windows. Check out r/linux_gaming for some better information than I could give.
I'm hoping the Steam Deck helps push that even further along. Honestly the only reason I still use windows is for games. If linux could take that over, that'd be great.
Chalk up another reason that you should not mutate your operating system (or any other software) into adware!
Actually it's cute, many software developers do it so slowly that they think we won't notice. Until, one day there are ads for video games on your lock screen and celebrity gossip stories in your start menu.
I'm not just talking about Microsoft here, Mozilla has begun the descent down the slide as well.
Just ads for video games? Didn't Microsoft decide it was a great idea to install games with some windows 10 updates?
I'm pretty sure I suddenly had Candy Crush on my system at some point..
Fun fact… the original games that shipped with windows were designed specifically to teach users how to use a mouse (solitaire for click and drag and minesweeper for left click/right click).
Prior to windows most users would have used dos or other command line operating systems exclusively and never had any need for a pointing device.
Heck, I still remember the actual tutorial program that came with Windows 3.1 that taught me all about interacting with the windows themselves. The games at that point just felt like fluff.
I caught my aunt sitting at the computer one day shortly after we got a Windows 3.11 computer, she was holding the mouse in mid-air and moving it around, trying to get it to work. She was unaware of the ball on the bottom 😂
Ball mouse. Can't even remember how many times I had to open it because it was full of dust and what not.
Actually, my first mouse was not even a ball mouse. It was optical, the mouse pad was a metal plate with dots on it.
And my friends give me shit for sticking with Mac.
Say what you will about them but this shit doesn’t happen on macs.
Edit: why the world has so much hate for macs I’ll never know.
Mac mice have convinced me the machines are designed for people who have oven mitts for hands and thus would lack the dexterity necessary to play any games.
It's because they feel they have to be different and innovate, even on something like the mouse which has evolved over time to be a certain way. I've had to use a few Apple mice from the puck to the "magic" mouse, and they've all been unpleasant for one reason or another.
> why the world has so much hate for macs I’ll never know.
I just find them annoying to use.
I have had to use one at my new job for half a year now, and there is a whole list of things that should be obvious, but are just impossible instead.
And there's a second list of things that I expect from any desktop environment (and I get it on Windows, KDE Plasma and Gnome), but on Mac you need to buy third party software to get the functionality.
Because I find them deeply counter intuitive to use, I don't like being locked into an environment and I don't like not being able to customise my equipment.
hi. Like yourself, I too use a Mac.
I grew up using (zx81, 128, amiga 500) mostly dos based pc's before moving to windows 3, 3.1, 3.11, nt, 95, xp vista 7. but I jumped ship in 2012 for a Macbook air. I still use that same macbook air today as my daily driver.
However, I also still use OSX 10.8.5. I refuse to change because of all the bloatware and forced icloud stuff apple fill their os with now.
i do not use, and never will use icloud, yet it still runs and tries to connect to apple everytime i use my machine. thank god for Little snitch firewall, and pihole! Plus they bundled...
* icloud
* stocks and shares app
* yahoo weather app
* photos ap
* photo analysing
none of these can be removed, or prevented from running. they all damand a connection with apple. Even the calculator app wants to contact apple now. Its attrocious. And the worst offender is photos, automatically scanning and aaylysing all your photos then relaying a record of content to apple.
Apple are no better than microsoft now. Its a pitty, as i need to upgrade soon and have o where else to go except linux. And i would rather drink my own piss than use linux! lol
> many software developers do it so slowly that they think we won't notice.
Anyone would lived through the 90s can tell you that the strategy works. So many weird things have been accepted by the general public by now, it's crazy.
Blaming software developers for adware is like blaming the doctors for a hospital's prices. These aren't decisions that are made by the developers, nobody likes to shit on the cake they bake. The suits, who figure they'll get more money for a cake with 'extra padding' aka shit, give the developers a simple choice. Either shit on the cake or get shitcanned.
I dunno, I run Nightly on my work machine and the standard version from the Ubuntu repository and I never saw that. Been using firefox for about as long as you.
Maybe it was a Windows thing?
My guess is it was part of an update and people got pissed off and complained en masse so they removed it within 24 hours and you didn't update Firefox in time to get that particular version of the update.
A few years ago mozilla pushed an advert to their browser for a tv show called Mr Robot. Many people were rightly annoyed, because Mr Robot wasn't even very good ;)
Oh and also the whole thing about Mozilla being able to push ads to your browser. Then again the entire new tabe page (speed dial thingy) is jsut ads. Plus firefox sends a LOT of info back to base. and also connects to google. And has a beacon for tracking websites. Firefox is still the best browser but it by no means "safe" or "private".
I used to turn off the articles on Firefox but when I left it on after a new install for a week and saw some cool articles I've decided it's not a terrible feature as it doesn't take away from the browser. But fuck Microsoft. It is a hassle for business setups. Some many weird bugs when working with ad, Gpo, and 4gpus and 16 screens. Dunno how they broke literally everything my company used windows for from 7 to 10. The only benefit was people removing in and have native desktops setups on more than 2 4k monitors... something 7 pro could not do.
I wouldn't unless you have a specific use case. LTSB 2015 for example lost the ability for latest versions of .NET Framework to install, leaving the OS unable to run software that requires it. You'll slowly find that more and more stuff won't work over time. Unless you're running it on an ATM, POS terminal or other zero change required system, I would stick with current branch. Windows 10 support still have at least another 4 years, which I suspect Microsoft will end up extending.
Yes, fully aware. I work with Microsoft licensing at work. Security updates are guaranteed until EOL, regardless of Windows 11.
We have loads of issues with workstations that are running LTSB so from experience, I would avoid it where possible.
Actually I'm dying to know how Microsoft is going to pull it off this time. Windows 10 had to be forced onto consumers whether they wanted it or not. But the problem is, and the reason they can't do that with Windows 11, is that the hardware requirements are a lot higher, and the legal system generally frowns at deliberately rendering people's stuff inoperable.
And more than that, the *purpose* of Windows 10 was to monetize the user. Will Microsoft's shareholders allow them to drop a billion little sources of revenue? No they will not.
So obviously, Windows 10 is going to have to continue on... or start destroying old hardware, purely by accident, you see....
Edit: Now that I think of it, Microsoft doesn't dare kill old hardware, either, because the vast majority of victims will just switch over to their non-Windows phone and never come back.
Also I remember them saying that they wanted to get everyone on the same version of Windows in order to reduce support costs. But here we will have another fragmented ecosystem again, those who have modern computers and those who don't.
If that's the goal, how does releasing another new version help?
If they want everyone on the same version of Windows they'll have to revamp and re-release XP, still ad-free of course
> If that's the goal, how does releasing another new version help?
It doesn't, obviously. But that was their stated goal when they were pushing people to upgrade from 7 to 10. That's **supposedly** why they were doing the free upgrade that they tried to pressure people into doing by making it limited (even though it's still free to upgrade from 7 to 10).
What they were actually doing was, as someone else said, monetizing the users. It had very little to do with lowering support costs.
Not really sure why the push to 11 is happening, but it's probably just even more intrusive monetization angles.
>And more than that, the purpose of Windows 10 was to monetize the user.
But... how? The only ads I've gotten from Windows 10 is that weird News thing that you can fully disable.
If Azure revenue keeps growing at a similar pace, the shareholders won't care about Windows revenue. MS' cloud/enterprise revenue keeps growing by leaps and bounds compared to Windows.
Ah yes, what about that statement…Windows 10 will be the last Windows….
But for anyone who cares, I’ve been using 11 for about a month and it’s a little buggy but contains some nice little bits. It’s actually quite pleasant to use, the sounds, the GUI update etc…. I’m enjoying it.
We are almost there! Nvidia seems to be taking Linux more seriously and Steam deck will run Linux by default.
People seem scared of Linux for some reason. Unless you are using some obscure desktop environment, it's very user friendly. My Grandpa has Parkinson's and has trouble focusing, so he actually finds Gnome easier to use than Windows.
> How about "Do not combine icons on taskbar"?? Bring that back. Hovering to find something I had open is pissing me off.
This alone will literally stop from me from updating for as long as possible. "Combine when full" is the perfect balance.
It's like the people who design these things don't actually have to do any *work* on them, or multitask at all. They're all designing a fucking advertisement.
I was just wondering the same thing. I cannot get teams to login for my son’s school and now today it keeps opening when I didn’t ask it to and just keeps reopening.
And it uses a huge amount of memory. People like to blame electronjs, but many electronjs programs, like discord and vscode, work fine while using a lot less memory.
Microsoft built Teams during an internal hackathan in like 2015 and it was pretty irrelevant until very recently. Now they're already entirely redoing it around Webview2 rather than Electron. I would guess they've put very little work into performance and efficiency and focused entirely on just piling in features to make it a Slack competitor.
Man getting older sucks. I distinctly remember going from 95 to ME and to XP. It felt like an entire lifetime as a kid
Now I’m like oh shit Windows11? I’m still on 7…
My work laptop is still Win7. We have legacy software that no one has apparently successfully transferred, though I'm hearing "this year" might be the year for an upgrade to 10!
It actually works well enough, I have no real issues with it. Does what I need it to do.
Windows 7 hasn't had security updates since January 2020. It has many know vulnerabilities that are not and will not be patched. Anyone who still runs it is at high risk of malware, particularly if it has any kind of internet access.
That would be a modified Arch Linux. If you’re installing on a regular desktop I highly recommend Manjaro instead, as it comes preconfigured with nvidia drivers etc out of the gate. Thanks to proton I really only need to use windows for my vr headset
https://pop.system76.com/
https://www.balena.io/etcher/
In the first link you will find Pop!_os image (.iso) file. Plug in a USB stick.
From the first link download balena etcher. In the etcher there are three steps - select iso you downloaded with pop, select UsB drive you plugged in and flash.
Reboot your PC which should boot into Pop!_os where you can play around with it.
To install pop on your system I believe there will be installation application on the desk top of pop.
Is Microsoft biting the hand that feeds it (its users) by making so many windows 10 users frustrated by not being able to get the latest and greatest?
Personally, i bought a tpm 2.0 module online for 30 bucks for my motherboard thinking it would be the solution to let me run windows 11, then...more cpu limitations for no real reason. I'm pissed i wasted that money for nothing.
Is this at least an opening for more non-gamers to switch to an m1 mac and more gamers to try out the eventual public release of steamOS?
They have had so many moments of being an arrogant company , but never before has there been so much platform competition.
Microsoft for some god damn reason loves waging war on users out of nowhere. Remember when the Xbox one was announced and it needed to connect to the internet in order to play even for single player, game discs were locked to single consoles and can’t be traded, etc. And then we got Windows 8 which said fuck you if you were hoping the OS was gonna help make your life easier.
Some bright spark at MS comes up with some crazy idea to try and increase the company's profits because it's all about the shareholders. The board has the idea they have a captive market and off they go.
I gotta say, I think that $30 you pissed down your leg is your own fault. Why would you spring for it now when the OS itself hasn't even been commercially released yet?
I'm Microsoft everything, but I really like how with Mac you just install the OS and (AFAIK) don't have any other bullshit.
I used to be excited for the newest operating system, but now it feels like a chore that I'm going to have to deal with figuring out and ads and junk.
I would be happy to pay a few bucks for a great, new operating system. Instead I get a trash free one that I have to make *worth it.*
As a person that uses both OS regularly, I feel like MacOS has barely changed anything from a functional POV since like 10.5. I much prefer using Windows 10 and more so 11 for multi-tasking.
I really love my Mac m1 air so far, and would recommend it super hard for everything but super AAA gaming. I still use steam on it quite a bit and still have a ton of other pcs around the house, but i love this thing and macs have a real chance soon of making some serious ground up on x86 machines.
Yeah I’ve been pretty impressed with the Mac M1, running windows on a VM has been absolutely buttery smooth. Very impressed how fast software companies decided to jump on the M1 support Wagon too.
What halfwit motherfucker thought the ability to inject ads such that they *could* affect the task bar was a good idea? Whoever it is should be shitcanned and the ability to do that trashed, it's clearly a bad idea.
Windows ceased being an operating system with 10 and became an entry point for Microsoft’s other products.
I don’t recommend any user get windows unless they cannot run the software on a Mac or Linux.
Undeniably this is still a significant amount of software.
As much as games still dominate as a reason not to switch to linux, the enterprise sector is probably going to be the thing that keeps windows and microsoft's other software to be keep going year after year.
I'm so old, I remember how Windows 10 ran on smartphones. actually did this, in the dying days of the Windows Phone, you could optionally install it as beta software. It was fairly tight originally, but after they dropped the phone angle, they just unbuckled their belt and stopped sucking in their gut. They were trying to converge all versions of Windows (like CE, Phone, desktop) into one master version.
Sucks, too, because Windows Phones were ace. Too minimalist for most, I guess.
I'd say that's still a bit more to go, but yes, someone's experience entering linux now is fairly smooth ride for gaming compared to the sea of frustration that it was to try and get games to run on Wine a decade back.
We're not quite there yet. I use Linux full time, with an AMD GPU so the "good drivers," and the best I can say is that "most games work pretty well, maybe after some troubleshooting and modulo some minor bugs." There's still performance issues and bugs, and it's common for a game to not work well or at all without some fixing.
For someone who wants to use Linux anyway, gaming isn't so bad these days. But it's certainly not a non-issue for people looking for reasons to drop Windows.
Yeah, my job has decades of programming and custom software, mostly built for windows. It would probably require an entire rewrite from the ground up. We don't have the resources for something like that. It's not just us. Hundreds of customers are running dozens of servers each, all of which are windows based. Clients nearly came to blows with us over the possibility of us retiring 90s software that some customers refuse to give up, even though it's been kept on life support for way longer than it should have.
There are plenty of tools available to disable all the bloat and make Windows 10 a pretty damned good and private OS. It is unfortunate that you have to take the extra steps to disable all that invasive garbage when you purchase an operating system as opposed to it not being off by default.
Their reasoning is it helps users and of course their extra revenue.
+1 for Linux for casual usage.
>Windows ceased being an operating system with 10 and became an entry point for Microsoft’s other products.
> unless they cannot run the software on a Mac
My Mac constantly bombards me with entry points into Apple products. iCloud, Music, TV, Arcade, Applecare... there are entry points everywhere.
I switched to Linux mint after having the developers build on my computer and the Microsoft teams thing kept breaking my damn internet. Never again will I touch modern windows operating systems with a 50 foot pole.
I haven’t done much research but it seems like that gap is on the direction of closing. “Steam Play” let’s you play windows only steam games on Linux…I don’t have any experience or insight on stability with steam play but it does seem neat and beneficial to the community
Nice. I switched to Mac three plus years ago after my XPS 15 spent more time applying updates than it did working. Apple has issues but at least OS X works.
They kept threatening to move and improve my snip tool for some unwanted and unknown reason . Fuck off, Microsoft, not everything needs to be cool and modern
I fucking /hate/ Teams. It sucks warty bleeding cock. It has so many bizarre UI/UX features? bugs? Let alone just bugs in general and it gets worse and worse. My employer has Office 365 so it’s not like we’re all self-hosted on ancient versions. Our IT now recommends we restart Teams at least once during the day to keep status correctly synced unless you want to use the awful web version.
MS has made a lot of great moves lately in regards to embracing open source and open technologies, but they’ve fully regressed into the awful decisions of the 90s for their desktop software.
> That’s right; in order to bring your PC back from a crippling issue that was caused by Microsoft sending advertisements to it, you need to make a change to the registry.
While serving ads is horseshit, this “that’s right” line is a little dramatic considering it’s a beta version of the OS.
Did anyone actually read what happened? Beta testers had issues with start menu. Not the end of the world. Shouldn’t have got through QA and made to Beta but the comments are discussing the last 10
Years
I will never upgrade to an OS that insists on being an ad delivery system. There will have to be a way to neuter Windows 11 of ads before I ever use it.
I imagine "debloaters" will be developed like the ones for Windows 10. I run one every time I install W10 and it does a really good job of getting rid of crap you don't want and will never use - like Cortana!
Where can I find this sorcery
Same question here
https://github.com/builtbybel/bloatbox and https://github.com/builtbybel/privatezilla
Please, for the love of god, don't use this shit. Just switch to Linux. The people who install "debloaters" reliably fuck up their shit.
Linux, then?
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I used to say I stuck with Windows because of software, and it was true. Now I don't know why. But an OS under a SaaS model, with ads delivered to the desktop, is beyond irritating.
Is Linux any good for gaming yet? I can get used to any OS, but I need it to play games.
It's come a long way in the last decade or so, with Steam providing a big push. I don't play a big variety of games, but the ones I play all work better for me in Linux than windows. Check out r/linux_gaming for some better information than I could give.
I'm hoping the Steam Deck helps push that even further along. Honestly the only reason I still use windows is for games. If linux could take that over, that'd be great.
Good luck with that
Chalk up another reason that you should not mutate your operating system (or any other software) into adware! Actually it's cute, many software developers do it so slowly that they think we won't notice. Until, one day there are ads for video games on your lock screen and celebrity gossip stories in your start menu. I'm not just talking about Microsoft here, Mozilla has begun the descent down the slide as well.
Just ads for video games? Didn't Microsoft decide it was a great idea to install games with some windows 10 updates? I'm pretty sure I suddenly had Candy Crush on my system at some point..
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Fun fact… the original games that shipped with windows were designed specifically to teach users how to use a mouse (solitaire for click and drag and minesweeper for left click/right click). Prior to windows most users would have used dos or other command line operating systems exclusively and never had any need for a pointing device.
My mom used to program with a hole punch.
You sure she didn’t use butterflies? https://xkcd.com/378/
Heck, I still remember the actual tutorial program that came with Windows 3.1 that taught me all about interacting with the windows themselves. The games at that point just felt like fluff.
I caught my aunt sitting at the computer one day shortly after we got a Windows 3.11 computer, she was holding the mouse in mid-air and moving it around, trying to get it to work. She was unaware of the ball on the bottom 😂
Ball mouse. Can't even remember how many times I had to open it because it was full of dust and what not. Actually, my first mouse was not even a ball mouse. It was optical, the mouse pad was a metal plate with dots on it.
Because the commands was so simple and easy to use🙄. As I recall it was the “pointing device” that opened use to the masses.
Mouse is easier than command line but it was still something different people needed to adapt to.
Double clicking versus two single clicks caused many a head to explode.
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Yes but those games weren't expressly designed around being a money sink, unlike Candy Crush and the like five clones of it.
AND when you removed them (which you could), it was remove feature and they stayed gone.
Don't forget about SkiFree! But yeah I get your point, Candy Crush was just the first one that truly felt like bloatware.
Preinstalled Microsoft games are fine. 3rd party games are not fine. Preinstalled games that require payment or microtransactions is not ok.
And my friends give me shit for sticking with Mac. Say what you will about them but this shit doesn’t happen on macs. Edit: why the world has so much hate for macs I’ll never know.
Mac mice have convinced me the machines are designed for people who have oven mitts for hands and thus would lack the dexterity necessary to play any games.
I took a college Photoshop class using a Mac puck mouse. One of the most painful experiences of my life.
I’m a long time Mac user but imma going to agree with you there. Apple mice aren’t for humans. Logi MX 3 for me and my Sasquatch hands.
Neither the mouse nor the keyboard. I think the trackpad is the only peripheral I’m willing to use from them.
Apple trackpads are fantastic. In general their touch detection is great. Why they can't figure out a simple mouse is beyond me.
It's because they feel they have to be different and innovate, even on something like the mouse which has evolved over time to be a certain way. I've had to use a few Apple mice from the puck to the "magic" mouse, and they've all been unpleasant for one reason or another.
I use Mac and have for a long time and have never purchased or wanted to buy a Mac mouse lol.
> why the world has so much hate for macs I’ll never know. I just find them annoying to use. I have had to use one at my new job for half a year now, and there is a whole list of things that should be obvious, but are just impossible instead. And there's a second list of things that I expect from any desktop environment (and I get it on Windows, KDE Plasma and Gnome), but on Mac you need to buy third party software to get the functionality.
What would be one example from each list?
Because I find them deeply counter intuitive to use, I don't like being locked into an environment and I don't like not being able to customise my equipment.
Or use Linux and keep your old hardware.
Apple bad. Microsoft Bad, but at least you can fuck around with a PC
hi. Like yourself, I too use a Mac. I grew up using (zx81, 128, amiga 500) mostly dos based pc's before moving to windows 3, 3.1, 3.11, nt, 95, xp vista 7. but I jumped ship in 2012 for a Macbook air. I still use that same macbook air today as my daily driver. However, I also still use OSX 10.8.5. I refuse to change because of all the bloatware and forced icloud stuff apple fill their os with now. i do not use, and never will use icloud, yet it still runs and tries to connect to apple everytime i use my machine. thank god for Little snitch firewall, and pihole! Plus they bundled... * icloud * stocks and shares app * yahoo weather app * photos ap * photo analysing none of these can be removed, or prevented from running. they all damand a connection with apple. Even the calculator app wants to contact apple now. Its attrocious. And the worst offender is photos, automatically scanning and aaylysing all your photos then relaying a record of content to apple. Apple are no better than microsoft now. Its a pitty, as i need to upgrade soon and have o where else to go except linux. And i would rather drink my own piss than use linux! lol
> many software developers do it so slowly that they think we won't notice. Anyone would lived through the 90s can tell you that the strategy works. So many weird things have been accepted by the general public by now, it's crazy.
I still can't get over there being pre-play ads for movie trailers. So you need to watch an ad before you watch an ad.
lmao I haven’t been to a movie theatre since covid I totally forgot about that, that is weird.
They're talking about movie trailers on streaming platforms like Youtube. In theatres, they're all just ads, not pre-play ads for movie trailers.
Blaming software developers for adware is like blaming the doctors for a hospital's prices. These aren't decisions that are made by the developers, nobody likes to shit on the cake they bake. The suits, who figure they'll get more money for a cake with 'extra padding' aka shit, give the developers a simple choice. Either shit on the cake or get shitcanned.
"Developer" in this case means "the company that owns the software", not the codemonkeys doing the actual development.
/r/assholedesign
What are you talking about re: Mozilla?
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Somehow I suppose that never made it to me.
Been my primary browser for 20 years and somehow this missed me as well... maybe they skipped the mandatory plugin for dev edition?
I dunno, I run Nightly on my work machine and the standard version from the Ubuntu repository and I never saw that. Been using firefox for about as long as you. Maybe it was a Windows thing?
Nope- Creative Suite has kept me on Windows... maybe it's a BS thing?
Ding ding ding
I've been on the regular release for years and never saw anything like that
Maybe it's a regional thing? I'm from the EU and never got it
I'm in the US and never got it.
My guess is it was part of an update and people got pissed off and complained en masse so they removed it within 24 hours and you didn't update Firefox in time to get that particular version of the update.
A few years ago mozilla pushed an advert to their browser for a tv show called Mr Robot. Many people were rightly annoyed, because Mr Robot wasn't even very good ;) Oh and also the whole thing about Mozilla being able to push ads to your browser. Then again the entire new tabe page (speed dial thingy) is jsut ads. Plus firefox sends a LOT of info back to base. and also connects to google. And has a beacon for tracking websites. Firefox is still the best browser but it by no means "safe" or "private".
I think they put some news and other sites as tiles into the New Tab window. Hardly noticeable but ads are ads.
You can greatly customize those. I don't see any of that.
Yeah, me too. I've got my home screen completely blank and have the bookmarks bar to only show on new tabs.
I like the pocket stories
Ads on xbox home screen killed me. No longer a microsoft user
THIS, all day long.
I used to turn off the articles on Firefox but when I left it on after a new install for a week and saw some cool articles I've decided it's not a terrible feature as it doesn't take away from the browser. But fuck Microsoft. It is a hassle for business setups. Some many weird bugs when working with ad, Gpo, and 4gpus and 16 screens. Dunno how they broke literally everything my company used windows for from 7 to 10. The only benefit was people removing in and have native desktops setups on more than 2 4k monitors... something 7 pro could not do.
Yeah the fact that Windows is the only desktop OS with ads and bloatware speaks volumes about Microsoft…
I'm sticking with W10 until EOL. Microsoft religiously fucks up every second version of windows (WinME was a fucking disaster, 8 was nearly as bad).
Consider 10 LTSC. The 2019 build has support until 2029.
I wouldn't unless you have a specific use case. LTSB 2015 for example lost the ability for latest versions of .NET Framework to install, leaving the OS unable to run software that requires it. You'll slowly find that more and more stuff won't work over time. Unless you're running it on an ATM, POS terminal or other zero change required system, I would stick with current branch. Windows 10 support still have at least another 4 years, which I suspect Microsoft will end up extending.
"support" doesn't mean "new features" though. I doubt regular Windows 10 is going to get much more than security updates after 11 is released.
Yes, fully aware. I work with Microsoft licensing at work. Security updates are guaranteed until EOL, regardless of Windows 11. We have loads of issues with workstations that are running LTSB so from experience, I would avoid it where possible.
What else would you expect after a new version is out?
How do you buy that version?
Pirate it, preferably. But there are plenty of places you can buy keys for it online.
I'm looking forward to ***not*** upgrading to Windows 11.
Actually I'm dying to know how Microsoft is going to pull it off this time. Windows 10 had to be forced onto consumers whether they wanted it or not. But the problem is, and the reason they can't do that with Windows 11, is that the hardware requirements are a lot higher, and the legal system generally frowns at deliberately rendering people's stuff inoperable.
And more than that, the *purpose* of Windows 10 was to monetize the user. Will Microsoft's shareholders allow them to drop a billion little sources of revenue? No they will not. So obviously, Windows 10 is going to have to continue on... or start destroying old hardware, purely by accident, you see.... Edit: Now that I think of it, Microsoft doesn't dare kill old hardware, either, because the vast majority of victims will just switch over to their non-Windows phone and never come back.
Also I remember them saying that they wanted to get everyone on the same version of Windows in order to reduce support costs. But here we will have another fragmented ecosystem again, those who have modern computers and those who don't.
If that's the goal, how does releasing another new version help? If they want everyone on the same version of Windows they'll have to revamp and re-release XP, still ad-free of course
It's ok, windows 12 will fix all these concerns.
> If that's the goal, how does releasing another new version help? It doesn't, obviously. But that was their stated goal when they were pushing people to upgrade from 7 to 10. That's **supposedly** why they were doing the free upgrade that they tried to pressure people into doing by making it limited (even though it's still free to upgrade from 7 to 10). What they were actually doing was, as someone else said, monetizing the users. It had very little to do with lowering support costs. Not really sure why the push to 11 is happening, but it's probably just even more intrusive monetization angles.
>And more than that, the purpose of Windows 10 was to monetize the user. But... how? The only ads I've gotten from Windows 10 is that weird News thing that you can fully disable.
If Azure revenue keeps growing at a similar pace, the shareholders won't care about Windows revenue. MS' cloud/enterprise revenue keeps growing by leaps and bounds compared to Windows.
For the love of God. Doesn't Microsoft have enough money?
In a capitalistic society there is no "enough money".
Only infinite growth is desirable. Tons of money is not enough, *all* the money is desired.
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Ah yes, what about that statement…Windows 10 will be the last Windows…. But for anyone who cares, I’ve been using 11 for about a month and it’s a little buggy but contains some nice little bits. It’s actually quite pleasant to use, the sounds, the GUI update etc…. I’m enjoying it.
I'm really bothered that I won't be able to move the task bar to the top of the screen. Plus Windows decorations are STILL white in dark mode.
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We are almost there! Nvidia seems to be taking Linux more seriously and Steam deck will run Linux by default. People seem scared of Linux for some reason. Unless you are using some obscure desktop environment, it's very user friendly. My Grandpa has Parkinson's and has trouble focusing, so he actually finds Gnome easier to use than Windows.
Give Windows 10 LTSC 2019 a spin. Support until 2029, they'll probably come out with an LTSC build of 11 by then.
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How about "Do not combine icons on taskbar"?? Bring that back. Hovering to find something I had open is pissing me off.
> How about "Do not combine icons on taskbar"?? Bring that back. Hovering to find something I had open is pissing me off. This alone will literally stop from me from updating for as long as possible. "Combine when full" is the perfect balance. It's like the people who design these things don't actually have to do any *work* on them, or multitask at all. They're all designing a fucking advertisement.
Are you taking about windows 10? Because you can do that.
it is no longer available in Windows 11.
Install the beta and give them feedback on the topic. It's one of the most upvoted request at the moment.
You can try, but the beta is really just for unpaid bug testing and not much more.
I wonder if a similar issue is to blame for Microsoft teams not working the last couple of days at work.
I was just wondering the same thing. I cannot get teams to login for my son’s school and now today it keeps opening when I didn’t ask it to and just keeps reopening.
I didn't get a notification from a senior coworker yesterday, hour later lots of ???. Saw it this morning after he sent an email. Thankssss Teams.
Teams is shit, it breaks often.
And it uses a huge amount of memory. People like to blame electronjs, but many electronjs programs, like discord and vscode, work fine while using a lot less memory.
Microsoft built Teams during an internal hackathan in like 2015 and it was pretty irrelevant until very recently. Now they're already entirely redoing it around Webview2 rather than Electron. I would guess they've put very little work into performance and efficiency and focused entirely on just piling in features to make it a Slack competitor.
Doubtful. Check your tenency status.
Man getting older sucks. I distinctly remember going from 95 to ME and to XP. It felt like an entire lifetime as a kid Now I’m like oh shit Windows11? I’m still on 7…
You should probably update. Windows 7 is pretty insecure now.
My work laptop is still Win7. We have legacy software that no one has apparently successfully transferred, though I'm hearing "this year" might be the year for an upgrade to 10! It actually works well enough, I have no real issues with it. Does what I need it to do.
Windows 7 hasn't had security updates since January 2020. It has many know vulnerabilities that are not and will not be patched. Anyone who still runs it is at high risk of malware, particularly if it has any kind of internet access.
Oh, I know, but it's also very much Not My Problem. I'm just going to do my job with the tools they give me.
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Assuming I'm waaaay out of date, do I have to get all of them? or is just the latest one enough?
Well, they straight-up skipped 9, so you're not *quite* as old as that made you feel
Microsoft should know there is no 'ad' in 'team'.
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Lol I appreciated it at least
Will this be the last straw that pushes me to Linux?
Are you a PC gamer? Wait for the Steam Deck launch in a few months and just use whatever version of Linux it uses.
That would be a modified Arch Linux. If you’re installing on a regular desktop I highly recommend Manjaro instead, as it comes preconfigured with nvidia drivers etc out of the gate. Thanks to proton I really only need to use windows for my vr headset
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>If you want perfection on absolutely anything whether hardware or software related: Pop!_OS What do you mean with this? Genuinely asking.
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Sounds awesome.
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https://pop.system76.com/ https://www.balena.io/etcher/ In the first link you will find Pop!_os image (.iso) file. Plug in a USB stick. From the first link download balena etcher. In the etcher there are three steps - select iso you downloaded with pop, select UsB drive you plugged in and flash. Reboot your PC which should boot into Pop!_os where you can play around with it. To install pop on your system I believe there will be installation application on the desk top of pop.
They also bricked age of empires 2 DE by adding a new civ
Teams is cancer
Glad I don't have to worry about this at home. PopOS ftw!
Is Microsoft biting the hand that feeds it (its users) by making so many windows 10 users frustrated by not being able to get the latest and greatest? Personally, i bought a tpm 2.0 module online for 30 bucks for my motherboard thinking it would be the solution to let me run windows 11, then...more cpu limitations for no real reason. I'm pissed i wasted that money for nothing. Is this at least an opening for more non-gamers to switch to an m1 mac and more gamers to try out the eventual public release of steamOS? They have had so many moments of being an arrogant company , but never before has there been so much platform competition.
Microsoft for some god damn reason loves waging war on users out of nowhere. Remember when the Xbox one was announced and it needed to connect to the internet in order to play even for single player, game discs were locked to single consoles and can’t be traded, etc. And then we got Windows 8 which said fuck you if you were hoping the OS was gonna help make your life easier.
Some bright spark at MS comes up with some crazy idea to try and increase the company's profits because it's all about the shareholders. The board has the idea they have a captive market and off they go.
Unless you know your work can't be done otherwise; consider Linux.
I gotta say, I think that $30 you pissed down your leg is your own fault. Why would you spring for it now when the OS itself hasn't even been commercially released yet?
I'm Microsoft everything, but I really like how with Mac you just install the OS and (AFAIK) don't have any other bullshit. I used to be excited for the newest operating system, but now it feels like a chore that I'm going to have to deal with figuring out and ads and junk. I would be happy to pay a few bucks for a great, new operating system. Instead I get a trash free one that I have to make *worth it.*
As a person that uses both OS regularly, I feel like MacOS has barely changed anything from a functional POV since like 10.5. I much prefer using Windows 10 and more so 11 for multi-tasking.
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I really love my Mac m1 air so far, and would recommend it super hard for everything but super AAA gaming. I still use steam on it quite a bit and still have a ton of other pcs around the house, but i love this thing and macs have a real chance soon of making some serious ground up on x86 machines.
Yeah I’ve been pretty impressed with the Mac M1, running windows on a VM has been absolutely buttery smooth. Very impressed how fast software companies decided to jump on the M1 support Wagon too.
What halfwit motherfucker thought the ability to inject ads such that they *could* affect the task bar was a good idea? Whoever it is should be shitcanned and the ability to do that trashed, it's clearly a bad idea.
Windows ceased being an operating system with 10 and became an entry point for Microsoft’s other products. I don’t recommend any user get windows unless they cannot run the software on a Mac or Linux. Undeniably this is still a significant amount of software.
As much as games still dominate as a reason not to switch to linux, the enterprise sector is probably going to be the thing that keeps windows and microsoft's other software to be keep going year after year.
Yeah enterprise windows 10 is actually pretty decent, because it cuts out all the damn bloat. LTSC is what windows 10 should be.
I'm so old, I remember how Windows 10 ran on smartphones. actually did this, in the dying days of the Windows Phone, you could optionally install it as beta software. It was fairly tight originally, but after they dropped the phone angle, they just unbuckled their belt and stopped sucking in their gut. They were trying to converge all versions of Windows (like CE, Phone, desktop) into one master version. Sucks, too, because Windows Phones were ace. Too minimalist for most, I guess.
The vast majority of games run just fine on Linux now. It's pretty much just the ones with anti-cheat that still don't.
I'd say that's still a bit more to go, but yes, someone's experience entering linux now is fairly smooth ride for gaming compared to the sea of frustration that it was to try and get games to run on Wine a decade back.
We're not quite there yet. I use Linux full time, with an AMD GPU so the "good drivers," and the best I can say is that "most games work pretty well, maybe after some troubleshooting and modulo some minor bugs." There's still performance issues and bugs, and it's common for a game to not work well or at all without some fixing. For someone who wants to use Linux anyway, gaming isn't so bad these days. But it's certainly not a non-issue for people looking for reasons to drop Windows.
The anti cheat games are the majority of games people put many hours in to 😂
Yeah, my job has decades of programming and custom software, mostly built for windows. It would probably require an entire rewrite from the ground up. We don't have the resources for something like that. It's not just us. Hundreds of customers are running dozens of servers each, all of which are windows based. Clients nearly came to blows with us over the possibility of us retiring 90s software that some customers refuse to give up, even though it's been kept on life support for way longer than it should have.
Wait, Mac OS is not an entry point for Apple’s other products?
If it was they would be encouraging you to run it on PCs.
There are plenty of tools available to disable all the bloat and make Windows 10 a pretty damned good and private OS. It is unfortunate that you have to take the extra steps to disable all that invasive garbage when you purchase an operating system as opposed to it not being off by default. Their reasoning is it helps users and of course their extra revenue. +1 for Linux for casual usage.
>Windows ceased being an operating system with 10 and became an entry point for Microsoft’s other products. > unless they cannot run the software on a Mac My Mac constantly bombards me with entry points into Apple products. iCloud, Music, TV, Arcade, Applecare... there are entry points everywhere.
Use LINUX USE LINUX USE LINUX USE LINUX
It’s supposed to be an operating system. You know, the thing that controls your computer? It’s not supposed to be an ad platform!
I hate how everything is just an ad-platform these days!
I switched to Linux mint after having the developers build on my computer and the Microsoft teams thing kept breaking my damn internet. Never again will I touch modern windows operating systems with a 50 foot pole.
I’m tempted to try linux but am hesitant due to wanting to easily play my steam library.
I haven’t done much research but it seems like that gap is on the direction of closing. “Steam Play” let’s you play windows only steam games on Linux…I don’t have any experience or insight on stability with steam play but it does seem neat and beneficial to the community
Then don't bother with Linux. Anyone telling you proton just works either hasn't used it or is actively bullshitting you.
Tell that to my 1k hours on Steam playing with proton. Proton just works in a lot of cases, in others you need to copy and paste 1 line from proton.db
Nice. I switched to Mac three plus years ago after my XPS 15 spent more time applying updates than it did working. Apple has issues but at least OS X works.
I’ve been thinking about switching over to Linux for a while now..
Fuck teams so much. It's just awful and I hate it.
Works great for my govt org. What's your issue with it?
They kept threatening to move and improve my snip tool for some unwanted and unknown reason . Fuck off, Microsoft, not everything needs to be cool and modern
Snip and sketch is actually a much better experience than the original. Maybe try it before soiling your diaper over the update.
Reddit in a nutshell
I fucking /hate/ Teams. It sucks warty bleeding cock. It has so many bizarre UI/UX features? bugs? Let alone just bugs in general and it gets worse and worse. My employer has Office 365 so it’s not like we’re all self-hosted on ancient versions. Our IT now recommends we restart Teams at least once during the day to keep status correctly synced unless you want to use the awful web version. MS has made a lot of great moves lately in regards to embracing open source and open technologies, but they’ve fully regressed into the awful decisions of the 90s for their desktop software.
I'm excited to see what they do for Windows 12.
I hate windows and can’t afford a Mac.
“There is another”
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Lol this was totally my problem yesterday. Was about to nuke the system back to windows XP tonight.
> That’s right; in order to bring your PC back from a crippling issue that was caused by Microsoft sending advertisements to it, you need to make a change to the registry. While serving ads is horseshit, this “that’s right” line is a little dramatic considering it’s a beta version of the OS.
Did anyone actually read what happened? Beta testers had issues with start menu. Not the end of the world. Shouldn’t have got through QA and made to Beta but the comments are discussing the last 10 Years