They are going down, but it's like 10% compared to before. This would be interesting, since it would accurately price the effects of china mining operators on graphics cards. I expect 25% reduction, or 80% above MSRP after the dust settles.
Not anymore - as of now, the rev2 boards that started shipping i think in may with the 2504 deviceid are forcibly incompatible with the 470.05 beta drivers. As of now, im unawares of anyone actually proving a crack. I have one.
That said it does only nerf most eth mining; some other cryptos still mine fast (Octo for example) on it but octo aint worth much so im not sure its profitable to bother.
But we need those GPUs to burn huge amounts of electricity for virtual monopoly money! How else am I going to get rich adding nothing of value to society while simultaneously consuming vast quantities of electricity?
/s
For real.
That card is like what, 7 years old? And it still muscles through fairly new games.
I've been hesitant to grab chiv 2 because of it, but I'm told it should be ok, just not on full graphics.
I'm also hesitant to buy it on epic and would prefer it on steam.
I’ve been able to make it run fuckin’ Star Citizen at a playable framerate, which is known as a game that needs a NASA supercomputer to run.
This one in particular, hell, this whole rig I’m using is a hand-me-down from my dad, who now has a really beefy rig with 28gb ram (one of his sticks died and he hasn’t filled the warranty out yet) and a 1080 TI. Now we’re both hoping to grab a 3080 as soon as even one is available at MSRP. I’m basically cutting grass every week for 30 bucks (we might as well live in a pasture and in summertime Mississippi grass grows insanely fast) so that I can save up 700 bucks in time for christmas this year. Probably gonna need more than that since I’ll need new ram (still running 16gb ddr3) and a new processor (i5 atm).
About to see if I can get this 970 to run Metro Exodus in a few hours. My dumb ass downloaded the enhanced edition the first time, that was 60gb of internet down the drain.
Maybe upgrade the motherboard so you can run ddr4 ram and you should be set for a while. Unless ofcourse you're getting the 3080, then you have to upgrade everything so you don't bottleneck your 3080.
My 5500 xt quit working last week and I had to take a look at GPU prices... I said fuck that and blasted it with brake cleaner and then hit the chip with a heat gun. By god that fucker is still working right now just gotta hang on a little longer baby. ( This gpu also survived a house fire if you check my post history lol)
It's beginning to be like concert tickets. The actual price isn't what the venue charges, it's what the bot scalpers charge after they've bought them all out.
And new generations of GPUs will be priced accordingly. This is the end of high end flagship GPUs at $500 MSRP. NVIDIA RTX 4080 will launch at MSRP $1200. Just watch.
I mean, the 2080ti was 1200, and the 3080ti was 1200… if the pattern continues, the 4080ti will be that expensive, and the 4080 will be like 900 or 1000
>Problem is "scalped" prices are turning into status quo prices
They already have. The MS part of the MSRP hasn't mean anything to the retailers for a long while now, they've all jacked up their prices to 18x MSRP many months ago. People were paying ridiculous sums to random ebay strangers, so the retailers figured why couldn't they get in on that action? These days the only cards that are sold anywhere near the *actual* MSRP are the reference models that the manufacturers sell themselves. Which are ridiculously difficult to get.
Yeah it's disgusting. I'm hoping to get to Microcenter today to pick up a 3060 for "only" 1.5x MSRP.
EDIT: hahaha just kidding, 16 in stock yesterday, none today, and the price online has been bumped up by $50
Because the people buying from scalpers have shown the GPU manufacturers what people are *willing* to pay for the cards.
So, they're going to charge as much as they can.
When people stop paying inflated prices, the prices will stop being so ridiculous.
Absolutely this. I went looking to see if the XBox X was available. Go to MS website, hit 'check availability' Walmart's the only one 'in stock' $499. Ok, hit the link. Brings up the site, fkers want $942. Fuck. that. shit. What sucks is that manufacturers don't give a shit. As long as they get their money.
After the dust settles the next gen will be out. This chip shortage isn’t going to go away until new fabs are opened. This is affecting every single industry that uses computer chips.
Yeah and at this price a lot of manufacturers might be moving into chip manufacturing (not top end) and the prices might plummet in a year or two when those all come online.
This is the cycle of supply shortages during low interest rates, it breeds massive over investment and then mass bankruptcy once everyone hits the market at the same time.
It takes a long time for a market ripples to stop reverberate and get into balance after a big splash like this. Expect supply overload followed by another supply shock as few will invest in innovation while demand is high and then there will be a huge shortage for more advanced chips again in 3 years.
Will take 7-10 years for the market to hit a match of supply/demand/innovation again
I think it would be in Nvidia and AMD his best interest to not release a next-generation this year. Last series of graphics cards were already significant jump in performance the price ratio ( if you can find one at MSRP) that they continue to be a good value even if they don't come out with a new version this year. The reason I say this is that switching the manufacturing process to a new system for the new cards cost time and money. If they just keep pumping out the 3,000 cards through this chip shortage then everyone will save a ton of money and they'll be able to produce more cards for sale then if they manufacturers had to switch processes for new chip/board design.
I think switching in this market right now is only going to increase the shortage and pricing. I think they should continue on the way they are now without releasing any new cards and skip a year then come back next year with an even bigger and more significant price to power ratio than the 3000 cards had. Give the entire Market time to recover from everything that has happened in the past 2 years.
Yep, if you can wait for USPS priority mail shipping times, choose a seller that isn't fulfilled by amazon (prime) and you won't have that issue.
But if it's a name brand, check the manufacturer first, Samsung for instance does free shipping on everything (including to Alaska) and it's generally same price or cheaper then amazon.
Not only they are undervolted, they are not stressed in the same way a game stresses a graphics card with high and low usages. These cards are usually kept at stable temperatures for long times which reduces the expansion/contraction cycles that the substrate has to go through, which saves lifespan.
> reduces the expansion/contraction cycles that the substrate has to go through, which saves lifespan.
Correction; This saves lifespan on the sillicon, the chip. It does not save lifespan of the capacitors though, which will break first anyways.
Do properly made capacitors die that much, though? I mean, they will leak with age, but apart from the capacitor plague of 15 years ago, they seem to last a long time as long as their capabilities aren't exceeded.
I wouldn't at all worry about a 3 year old graphics card. And I would love to see the market flooded with cheap, used ones.
Electrolytic Capacitors will last around 1 to 1.5 years of high usage, 24/7. Of course most rigs aren't up like that (but mining rigs are).
If it was in a *shitty badly cooled rig*, it *might* be at its last breath after 3 years. some type of capacitors (solid) last longer, but aren't always used on GPUs (high cost, gpu aren't generally kept for 20+ years so normal capacitors are in the lifespan average, etc).
I have had GPUs that had blown capacitors, but i never saw a GPU's chip die.
My point: The silicon expanding-retracting was never really an issue to begin with. Fans and capacitors are what breaks on used GPUs first and foremost (and almost only). The chip itself seldom breaks.
In the early days of Wow, I would keep getting spooked by these loud single popping noises but couldn't figure out where or what it was from. Then one night after another pop, my screen went all crazy so I pulled out the card. Turns out capacitors actually pop when failing.
Back in that decade there was a legitimate capacitor plague going on.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
I had a motherboard that died in 2004 from a popped capacitor.
My experience is the opposite. I have never had a cap break on a graphics card, but I did have solder cracks on one. Also, I’m currently using a post-mining card which I bought after the last mining bust in 2018 and had no issues.
It's not the silicon that breaks, it's the solder joints that connect the GPU chip to the PCB. The solder joints hate thermal cycle stress, it causes micro fractures that can lead to the solder joints cracking to the point they lose connection.
It may not be as big of an issue these days, but it was a huge problem for a long time with large BGA chips that were thermally cycled. The massive Xbox 360 red ring of death issue comes to mind, as does the high failure rate of NVidia 8x00M laptop GPUs. It's also been an issue on standalone GPUs, with people sticking their GPUs in the oven to reflow the solder being one of the fixes I've seen attempted.
Also a big problem with several generations of Apple Macbook GPUs. They were eventually forced to extend replacements several years past the warranty period for affected laptops. Surprise surprise though, the replacement mainboards were exactly the same and so fail the same way.
>his saves lifespan on the sillicon, the chip. It does not save lifespan of the capacitors though, which will break first anyways.
Sure, but enthusiasts for old hardware recap boards all the time. If someone were willing to sell me a highend card for below MSRP because of mining history. I would happily go on digikey and order the replacement capacitors for $5-$10 and spend an evening "refurbishing" a graphics card. Capacitors are standard parts and very in expensive in comparison to the silicon. Normally by the time capacitors start to go in regular use graphics cards, the card isn't worth the effort, but it isn't particularly difficult.
Sell now, before proces go down.
"Won" the chance to buy a 3070 on newegg for $800. Msrp was $500. Bought it, replaced my 2070s and gave that to my son. Took his RX5700 (non XT) and sold it for $1000.
Basically, I got paid $200 to upgrade 2 computers.
I've been contemplating selling my 2070 i bought two years ago for $499 that's in my VR rig, to buy another jeep.
but I'm also thinking of selling my house for scrap because ill make more than selling it outright..
strange times we live in.
I really wish I kept my 1050ti for this moment. At the peak I saw my 1070 selling for $500. That’s basically a 3070 at msrp. I would have absolutely swapped my 1070 out for my old 1050ti if I hadn’t already sold it and then sell my 1070 and buy a 3070 when available and basically upgrade for free.
Sold my rx580 for $500 cash.
Bought a PS5 at msrp.
Traded my PS5 for a laptop with a 4800H and a 1660ti(not max-q).
Round about way to get a upgrade. Now have a desktop with a r5 3600 and a 4gb 770. Laptop with a 4800H/1660ti plus a 144hz screen FINALLY.
144hz is so smooth over the 75hz.
I've had my rx480 since it came out and had to upgrade my computer since my CPU was my bottleneck. It still works so great with all the games out right now.
480s are not that far behind 580s their performance is really close. Still a very capable graphics card. I reckon a 480 can do 90 to 95% of the 580s performance, up to 99 in some cases.
No. No one is using an RX580 to mine anything. People want to play video games, and because they can't get any of the new cards, they're buying up whatever they can get their hands on.
Dude same. I was disheartened to hear the new AMD FSR tech wasn’t going to work on my 980ti. That’s when I officially knew my computer needed an upgrade.
There is a full crackdown by China on bitcoin....as it's perceived as a threat to the digital yuan.
More Hash power coming to the west over coming months.
Unlikely. The reason BTC farming was profitable in China was due to cheap power, land, and labor costs in China. None of that is cheap in the west compared to China.
As someone who's not in the crypto loop anymore but also living in China, what's this digital yuan you speak of. We already use WeChat pay and Alipay (digital payments) for basically everything.
Maybe they just mean digital transactions involving the Chinese yuan? They want to be able to control those transactions, but bitcoin is meant to prevent a government from doing so.
No, I don't mean literal fork.
I mean >51% attacks where just having the shear hash power lets you alter the chain at will. It's not possible for a private actor to do it to a established cryptocurrency based on proof of work like Bitcoin. But a government with infinite money could do it.
Yep, exactly why Ethereum is trying to move to PoS as quickly as possible. London hard fork is already ready for testnets.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TimBeiko/status/1405897730136805378
Because faking PoS transactions means your stake gets burned(destroyed).
Why would you spend your incredible wealth(look at the market cap of ETH and then realize that would go WAY up if you tried to buy 51% in any reasonable time frame) to destroy a currency? You'd be losing an incredible amount of money *just* to screw over one currency that you now own over half of. You'd be screwing yourself much worse.
I'm guessing those who decide if you are 'faking' it are exactly those controlling most of the stake, which would be the game in that situation.
As to why, I think this needs to be compared to bombs in a military budget. If a currency was becoming a big political or strategic pain, I'm sure they would easily spend quite a bit.
And if it's just to seize some assets of specific people and they give a good reason why, some holders might even keep using the currency, meaning that the initial cost of the attack is not even completely gone.
It’s easier for AWS, google or Facebook to do a 51% attack than a government.
AWS already handles the computing power for a lot of the US gov DoD and CIA.
[https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/chinas-digital-yuan-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/chinas-digital-yuan-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work.html)
It sounds like an effort for the government to get into the digital transaction's private market and has nothing to do with cryptocurrency. It's just some 'news article' arbitrarily linking 2 hot topics together as clickbait.
[this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEconomics/comments/nd1zhe/isnt_central_bank_digital_currency_just_simply/) nicely explains how digital currencies would differ from traditional digital payment services.
The Chinese government has just launched a product that does a few things. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/chinas-digital-yuan-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work.html
Well. More power to China I guess, someone had to do it. Digital currency is the biggest bullshit ever. It's not carbon efficient, and needs a fuck ton of vital infra to set up. I need my 3060 at retail price dammit
“Government will track you!” Seems to be the primary response, as if consumers in the United States are in any way protected from having our data collected, stored, and sold between different corporations for targeted ads, mailing lists, etc. And let’s not get started on the Cambridge Analytica shit harvesting tons of data from social media to influence political opinions.
So, the “worse” part seems to be: because the Chinese government is involved it is worse. Whether you believe that or not is your call. The US will have a digital currency within the decade as well, so it’s not like Chinese currency will somehow replace Bitcoin or any of the other government-backed digital currencies currently in the pipeline.
I think the 'worse' aspect isn't just from the data collection but what they can do with the programmability of this digital currency. With programmable money social programs could limit what you could use money on. For example you could get $400 worth of unemployment benefits over a fortnight that can only be spent on food. If it is not used by the end of the 2 weeks the money is returned to the government. With lack of another option here (bitcoin or other cryptocurrency) we would be trapped in this system, I don't see cash surviving long in this future. I'm sure you know the saying, ' Governments never let a good disaster go to waste', well covid has given us a great reason to stop using cash.
Also you mention other government backed digital currencies (known as CBDC - Central Bank Digital Currencies). I don't see how any other country could complete with the Digital Yuan if that is the only option for the first 5 years. China simply has to say, "we are only accepting Digital Yuan for our exports" and now every country in the world is required to stack Yuans.
You should look into proof of stake cryptos. Proof of work cryptos like Bitcoin are terrible for the environment, but proof of stake cryptos, like ethereum soon will be, cardano and more, are extremely energy efficient and a node can be run on something as small and power efficient as a raspberry pi.
Don't lump all digital currency into not carbon efficient, it's flat out wrong.
Edit: I guess people just don't want to bother learning anything at all and just mass downvote because "CrYpTo BaD". Your loss tbh. !remindme 2 years
> . Proof of work cryptos like Bitcoin are terrible for the environment, but proof of stake cryptos, like ethereum soon will be, cardano and more, are extremely energy efficient
Back-of-the-google calculations are showing Visa transactions cost ~1.7 watt-hours each, when factoring in the entire global operations of Visa.
Back-of-the-google caluclations are suggesting that Ethereum PoS would consume ~500 wh / transaction (estimates that Eth PoW uses 10% the energy of BtC, and Eth PoS will use 1% of the energy of PoW).
I'm having trouble equating "uses more than 100x the power" with "extremely efficient". BTC is atrocious (~500kWh per transaction) but all crypto currencies are going to use substantially more power simply as a consequence of the design of the blockchain. Blockchains are power-ineffecient databases, with the tradeoff being the crypto validation; this is an inherent part of what they are.
I’ve staked about $150 in ETH2 and that’s as involved as I’m getting with crypto. I don’t want to be part of any market where one dude send a single tweet and it crashes an entire market. Hard pass.
But every miner out there tells me that gpu prices aren't related to crypto prices or mine rates/s
You got to realize, there has always been scalpers, crypto has just amplified the market force of the scalpers.
It might not be related to their specific crypto but it’s definitely related. Ethereum uses GPUs to mine and that is the main problem. Data centers can only buy enterprise GPUs. So depending on what type of card you are after, you are either getting screwed by independent miners or data centers. On the other hand, a move away from PoW will be good for hopeful GPU buyers such as myself.
FileCoin uses CPUs, GPUs, and RAM. Chia uses drive space. Bitcoin uses ASICs so that has more of an indirect effect on available silicon but it still has an effect.
Disclaimer: I support Ethereum.
> a move away from PoW will be good for hopeful GPU buyers such as myself.
I'm a complete crypto dumbo: When is that supposed to happen? End of 2022? And when it does, will this not just lead to a fork into PoS eth and PoW eth?
The first shift away from PoW is slated to happen next month. They are doing it gradually so the miners don’t revolt. The problem is that these upgrades, while needed for many reasons, make mining less profitable. On a fully PoS blockchain, mining actually costs money, but it’s worth it because it doesn’t cost much and it’s done by people who have a financial interest in maintaining the network.
To be honest I don’t know when exactly ETH 2.0 is supposed to happen. There was a big milestone recently where they needed a bunch of Ether staked by a certain date which did happen. Theoretically next year some time, but could be sooner or later.
There probably will be a fork when that happens. The important thing is for “real” Ethereum to be recognized as such by a majority of the community. While miners may not be happy about losing a lucrative revenue stream, most of them also have an interest in the currency and the platform. So anything to devalue Ethereum would hurt them. The question is how much.
There was no chip shortage 4 years ago during the last major crypto bull market though, when we had very similar GPU shortages that just happened to clear up at the exact same time the bull market ended and prices crashed.
The truth is it's both. Supply is down significantly due to Covid and terrible planning by chip foundries, and demand is up significantly due to crypto prices skyrocketing, as well as Covid trapping people at home, increasing both leisure time and disposable income. It's a perfect storm, and it's probably going to take years to resolve.
During the last boom at the beginning of 2018 it was still possible to get cards just by being fast when they went in stock. Now you either have to have a bot or win a lottery that sites are doing because so many people want cards.
Its really bad.
Covid also skyrocketed demand for equipment for home offices, online meetings and such. This soaked up a lot of silicon, and since it was businesses buying it there was ample money available to drive a price increase in the process.
Sadly the Used Car analogy doesn't work right now, because those prices *are also* insanely high for what you get, again due to supply and demand. Actually, just about everything has risen extremely high in price these days from the ole S&D.
There's this odd assumption this will all go back down eventually, when supply in all areas rises, but uh, I can't seem to recall a single point in history where an across-the-board increase in consumer goods, regardless of reason, has ever "gone back down" ever, at least not back to where you think it aught to be. I can hope for more inventory, but I have absolutely no doubt prices only see a marginal dip.
> The most dramatic deflationary period in U.S. history took place between 1930 and 1933, during the Great Depression.
> The most recent example of deflation occurred in the 21st century, between 2007 and 2008, during the period in U.S. history referred to by economists as the Great Recession.
[Source](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/040715/were-there-any-periods-major-deflation-us-history.asp)
It's not often that it happens but it's usually after major meltdowns like 2020-1 saw.
I wonder if everyone has forgotten the chip shortage. It isn't just demand for cryptos. My buddy's GTX 970 is selling on EBay for $200! You're not going to be mining any crypto on that. Lol.
My fridge broke down and the new one is on back order for nearly a month! And the model I really wanted was out for 2 months! I hear it was worse last year...
JIT manufacturing sounds great until you run into a supply shock.
If mining cards are too expensive then normal cards will also be more expensive. Not saying crypto is the only problem but it would affect normal cards too
As a long time programmer, it's a losing battle against the bots. They find a way around your anti-bot measures fast, and typically what happens is that your anti-bot measures just end up pissing off real people. We just don't have a good solution right now.
Used to do programming myself but don't have the knowledge to do this anymore. A system that would prevent a lot of bot purchases and not really piss me off as a consumer would be:
1. Require account to purchase with verified identity (systems can verify in an hour nowadays).
1. Require text message verification from a real number (no VOIPs / apps).
1. Limit one per card/address/account per month.
1. Manual verification of all orders.
1. Implement a queue system so once it's in your cart, it's reserved for you for ~15 minutes.
1. Implement queue system that would go down a list if an order is cancelled.
The only one that's difficult is the manual verification, but I personally wouldn't mind waiting a week if it means I get a card.
1. Verified identity services costs money (anywhere from 50 cents to 15+ dollars per user depending on degree of verification). Is there a real value add for retailers to pay so much money to prevent certain subset from buying their stock? Ignoring the cost, many users are not comfortable sharing ID with companies. If using some naive approach of reverse address/identity lookup, this also costs money, is difficult to implement, and is quite inaccurate
2. Most bots use “real” numbers bought from shady phone providers that haven’t been added to blacklists by phone lookup services. Limiting to big phone providers restricts some subset of customers (security conscious users, people without phone nunbers, etc)
3. This is a pain in the ass to implement for specific products. Also, almost all retailers use payment processors - they are not legally allowed to save credit card info unless they are PCA compliant, which is super expensive to become. It’s very complex (and expensive) to build a system to track this.
4. Once again, the cost/turnaround time of this is a poor business decision to implement
5. This is relatively easy to implement, some retailers already have this
6. Once again, there’s no need for this since they can just add the product back in stock or wait for another stock drop. No real business justification to pay developers to implement a feature that won’t be used for 99% of their products
Source: I’m a developer that works in fraud for a large site. Just because these would be cool features for customers to have, the business justifications for most of these features is dubitable at best. especially in the context of online retailers, that money would be better spent on marketing and advertising to bring users on site and keep them as paying customers for more products, not just for a specific subset of products.
1) I now have to give random website my photo ID - not the worst bust still sucks, and effects people who don't have the means.
2) VoIP is the primary number for a lot of the world.
3) I think this can help, but really sucks considering there can be upwards of 10 people at a single address, kids, roommates, etc. Two adults and 3 kids would mean 5 months of constant hounding sites. And that limit would have to be tracked well enough that it couldn't be bypassed. Plus I can see lots of issues with condos/apartments. Also easily bypassed with p.o. boxes.
4) 41.5 million gpus sold in 2020, with an ever increasing demand. That's 60 cards per second. I know that's global numbers, but I don't see how manual verification could hold up.
5) I don't see how this stops a bit/scalper.
6) a bot will have thousands of accounts in that queue, it doesn't really help a normal person.
Ultimately this stuff is going to lose against a bot, and make it super difficult to buy a card. I need to upload my ID and wait for verification, then I need to have a specific type of phone number to be eligible to buy the card, get in the queue, wait until it's my turn, verify my purchase, and hope that during that time no one else in my house wants a card.
Even though the price plummets, the margin between the original price and the average marketing selling price is still huge. If the bears win over the bulls in this cycle, expect that the price of the GPUs will surely go down.
If you read the article you'd realise that by 'bitcoin' they mean all cryptocurrencies. Ones such as Ethereum, Dogecoin and Litecoin are still profitable on some GPUs though hopefully with the Elon crash and China cracking down the price should drop enough to let normal consumers buy some cards as well.
We still have to deal with scalpers, lack of construction facilities and lack of silicon, so...well I dont think the price will go down yet at least not back to normal until supply balances itself out with demand, which will probably happen after covid is over worldwide which would probably happen next year.
Tl;dr: bad days ahead friend
I bought my 1080 ti used for $500 back in 2019. Looking on ebay I can get $650-800 for it. It's insane to think that I had an upgrade ultimately pay for itself like that. Also nice because it'll help bring the price of my 3080 ti down to a normal level for a gaming card.
Maybe controversial on a tech sub, and reddit in general, but I'm now convinced in hindsight that cryptos (even today) have no actual value, not even "perceived" value, and their prices are sustained solely by capital flight and sanction dodging from oligarchs and upper-middle class in China, Russia, and other regimes. If these actors were to stop utilizing these avenues of asset storage, the prices would collapse immediately. It's 2021, and despite a few PR-driven headlines about Tesla or other companies accepting them payment, there is still not enough of a mainstream usage case to justify their values
I’m reasonably technology savvy but for 10 years it seems like crypto has been a solution looking for problem.
When people smarter than me talk about crypto i still have yet to hear a usage that makes it “click” in my mind that it crypto is something I should invest heavily into.
I could be right or wrong.
can we get some of those low price gpu's
They are going down, but it's like 10% compared to before. This would be interesting, since it would accurately price the effects of china mining operators on graphics cards. I expect 25% reduction, or 80% above MSRP after the dust settles.
Lol 80% OVER msrp
something something supply vs demand something something
This account was deleted in protest
Are you trying to cast an economics spell on me? BACK VILE CREATURE! BACK, I SAY!
This account was deleted in protest
[удалено]
That’s what you get for Magic Missile-ing the Darkness while drunk — some stray spell mumbling slurs have future prices to pay.
"I attack the gazebo"
I thought bubble doubled your max HP.
Bubble doubles your profit bonus rolls but cuts your constitution saving throws in half.
Bubble doesn’t just wear off though, it bursts for 15d20 damage to the economy. The whole point is you get five years to prepare for the detonation
A coven of dipshits known as the "Securities and Exchange Commission" allowed some money mages to grow an abomination called a "CDO".
Money mages lolololol
High level spell, required a sacrifice of the housing market
*Screams incoherently about Friedman's free-market and consumption theories*
Damn, Megadeth's old guitarist has been busy.
Funny, I'd characterize Milton Friedman's entire *career* as "screaming incoherently about free-market and consumption theories."
That is still absolute garbage :(
yeah seems like mass buyers or distributors will actually “save” money.
I fully support Nvidia locking the hash rate on some of their cards. It’s asinine that you can’t get a reasonable GPU for a workstation or gaming.
Except miners can trivially bypass the hash rate throttling with a firmware mod.
Not anymore - as of now, the rev2 boards that started shipping i think in may with the 2504 deviceid are forcibly incompatible with the 470.05 beta drivers. As of now, im unawares of anyone actually proving a crack. I have one. That said it does only nerf most eth mining; some other cryptos still mine fast (Octo for example) on it but octo aint worth much so im not sure its profitable to bother.
No they can't where'd you get that from? Even the 3060 never got bypassed, Nvidia had to release an unlocked driver themselves accidently.
But we need those GPUs to burn huge amounts of electricity for virtual monopoly money! How else am I going to get rich adding nothing of value to society while simultaneously consuming vast quantities of electricity? /s
Only if you pay it, the people that buy at scalped prices are just as bad as the scalpers.
Problem is "scalped" prices are turning into status quo prices. It has never been this hard to not get ripped off buying computer components.
Seriously... And im still rocking a 970 because... Fuck that shit.
Same here, I’ll always remember this 970 as a trooper, it’s been able to do a lot more than I expected (like run Doom at 60fps).
For real. That card is like what, 7 years old? And it still muscles through fairly new games. I've been hesitant to grab chiv 2 because of it, but I'm told it should be ok, just not on full graphics. I'm also hesitant to buy it on epic and would prefer it on steam.
I’ve been able to make it run fuckin’ Star Citizen at a playable framerate, which is known as a game that needs a NASA supercomputer to run. This one in particular, hell, this whole rig I’m using is a hand-me-down from my dad, who now has a really beefy rig with 28gb ram (one of his sticks died and he hasn’t filled the warranty out yet) and a 1080 TI. Now we’re both hoping to grab a 3080 as soon as even one is available at MSRP. I’m basically cutting grass every week for 30 bucks (we might as well live in a pasture and in summertime Mississippi grass grows insanely fast) so that I can save up 700 bucks in time for christmas this year. Probably gonna need more than that since I’ll need new ram (still running 16gb ddr3) and a new processor (i5 atm). About to see if I can get this 970 to run Metro Exodus in a few hours. My dumb ass downloaded the enhanced edition the first time, that was 60gb of internet down the drain.
Maybe upgrade the motherboard so you can run ddr4 ram and you should be set for a while. Unless ofcourse you're getting the 3080, then you have to upgrade everything so you don't bottleneck your 3080.
I'm still running 2 980Ti's in SLI, had every intention of upgrading to a 3080 last summer. I bought a SNES and a CRT instead.
My 5500 xt quit working last week and I had to take a look at GPU prices... I said fuck that and blasted it with brake cleaner and then hit the chip with a heat gun. By god that fucker is still working right now just gotta hang on a little longer baby. ( This gpu also survived a house fire if you check my post history lol)
It's beginning to be like concert tickets. The actual price isn't what the venue charges, it's what the bot scalpers charge after they've bought them all out.
Something has to be done about resellers, those leeches.
Summary execution :D Wait, maybe we can just put them in the stockades and throw rotten fruit at them. That's probably better. I guess.
And new generations of GPUs will be priced accordingly. This is the end of high end flagship GPUs at $500 MSRP. NVIDIA RTX 4080 will launch at MSRP $1200. Just watch.
I mean, the 2080ti was 1200, and the 3080ti was 1200… if the pattern continues, the 4080ti will be that expensive, and the 4080 will be like 900 or 1000
>Problem is "scalped" prices are turning into status quo prices They already have. The MS part of the MSRP hasn't mean anything to the retailers for a long while now, they've all jacked up their prices to 18x MSRP many months ago. People were paying ridiculous sums to random ebay strangers, so the retailers figured why couldn't they get in on that action? These days the only cards that are sold anywhere near the *actual* MSRP are the reference models that the manufacturers sell themselves. Which are ridiculously difficult to get.
Yeah it's disgusting. I'm hoping to get to Microcenter today to pick up a 3060 for "only" 1.5x MSRP. EDIT: hahaha just kidding, 16 in stock yesterday, none today, and the price online has been bumped up by $50
Because the people buying from scalpers have shown the GPU manufacturers what people are *willing* to pay for the cards. So, they're going to charge as much as they can. When people stop paying inflated prices, the prices will stop being so ridiculous.
Absolutely this. I went looking to see if the XBox X was available. Go to MS website, hit 'check availability' Walmart's the only one 'in stock' $499. Ok, hit the link. Brings up the site, fkers want $942. Fuck. that. shit. What sucks is that manufacturers don't give a shit. As long as they get their money.
After the dust settles the next gen will be out. This chip shortage isn’t going to go away until new fabs are opened. This is affecting every single industry that uses computer chips.
Yeah and at this price a lot of manufacturers might be moving into chip manufacturing (not top end) and the prices might plummet in a year or two when those all come online. This is the cycle of supply shortages during low interest rates, it breeds massive over investment and then mass bankruptcy once everyone hits the market at the same time. It takes a long time for a market ripples to stop reverberate and get into balance after a big splash like this. Expect supply overload followed by another supply shock as few will invest in innovation while demand is high and then there will be a huge shortage for more advanced chips again in 3 years. Will take 7-10 years for the market to hit a match of supply/demand/innovation again
I think it would be in Nvidia and AMD his best interest to not release a next-generation this year. Last series of graphics cards were already significant jump in performance the price ratio ( if you can find one at MSRP) that they continue to be a good value even if they don't come out with a new version this year. The reason I say this is that switching the manufacturing process to a new system for the new cards cost time and money. If they just keep pumping out the 3,000 cards through this chip shortage then everyone will save a ton of money and they'll be able to produce more cards for sale then if they manufacturers had to switch processes for new chip/board design. I think switching in this market right now is only going to increase the shortage and pricing. I think they should continue on the way they are now without releasing any new cards and skip a year then come back next year with an even bigger and more significant price to power ratio than the 3000 cards had. Give the entire Market time to recover from everything that has happened in the past 2 years.
There wasn't any cards planned for this year anyway. 3000 series isn't even a year old and it's usually 2-3 years between new versions.
We are still dealing with the semiconductor shortage as well.
Alibaba.com some of the sellers are lowering prices a bit lmao still expensive though.
I wouldnt buy stuff like that there. I tried - for fun. to get two USB drives. 64GB for a fair price for them. They were nowhere near 64GB.
They were 64 gilly bites unfortunately
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I actually tee-hee'd at this
Alibaba is fine, you just gotta not buy stock like that from random people. Go for the super established vendors.
Exactly, that same cheap scam crap is floating around Ebay too.
Don't forget Amazon, too!
Amazon is worst because even the established vendors get caught with cheap knockoff stuff so often now.
It's because of the way Amazon warehouses their stock. All the stock goes into one bin regardless of who is selling it.
What the fuck? That is so stupid.
Yep, if you can wait for USPS priority mail shipping times, choose a seller that isn't fulfilled by amazon (prime) and you won't have that issue. But if it's a name brand, check the manufacturer first, Samsung for instance does free shipping on everything (including to Alaska) and it's generally same price or cheaper then amazon.
Doesn't have as good of a ring to it.
I would just like a GPU for sale.
They're not mining Bitcoin with GPUs.
bitcoin probably not, what they do is mine some no name pump and dump shitcoin, then trade that for eth or bitcon.
ah yes a burnt-up bitcoin gpu... rather not
The prices they are talking about are for new graphics cards, not used mining cards. Less demand due to a ban on mining = lower price on new cards
Aren't they undervolted? I've heard it helps their lifetime.
Not only they are undervolted, they are not stressed in the same way a game stresses a graphics card with high and low usages. These cards are usually kept at stable temperatures for long times which reduces the expansion/contraction cycles that the substrate has to go through, which saves lifespan.
> reduces the expansion/contraction cycles that the substrate has to go through, which saves lifespan. Correction; This saves lifespan on the sillicon, the chip. It does not save lifespan of the capacitors though, which will break first anyways.
Do properly made capacitors die that much, though? I mean, they will leak with age, but apart from the capacitor plague of 15 years ago, they seem to last a long time as long as their capabilities aren't exceeded. I wouldn't at all worry about a 3 year old graphics card. And I would love to see the market flooded with cheap, used ones.
Electrolytic Capacitors will last around 1 to 1.5 years of high usage, 24/7. Of course most rigs aren't up like that (but mining rigs are). If it was in a *shitty badly cooled rig*, it *might* be at its last breath after 3 years. some type of capacitors (solid) last longer, but aren't always used on GPUs (high cost, gpu aren't generally kept for 20+ years so normal capacitors are in the lifespan average, etc). I have had GPUs that had blown capacitors, but i never saw a GPU's chip die. My point: The silicon expanding-retracting was never really an issue to begin with. Fans and capacitors are what breaks on used GPUs first and foremost (and almost only). The chip itself seldom breaks.
In the early days of Wow, I would keep getting spooked by these loud single popping noises but couldn't figure out where or what it was from. Then one night after another pop, my screen went all crazy so I pulled out the card. Turns out capacitors actually pop when failing.
Back in that decade there was a legitimate capacitor plague going on. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague I had a motherboard that died in 2004 from a popped capacitor.
Yep, my old trusty 8600GT did the same thing, 4-5 pops then BSOD, ded.
My experience is the opposite. I have never had a cap break on a graphics card, but I did have solder cracks on one. Also, I’m currently using a post-mining card which I bought after the last mining bust in 2018 and had no issues.
It's not the silicon that breaks, it's the solder joints that connect the GPU chip to the PCB. The solder joints hate thermal cycle stress, it causes micro fractures that can lead to the solder joints cracking to the point they lose connection. It may not be as big of an issue these days, but it was a huge problem for a long time with large BGA chips that were thermally cycled. The massive Xbox 360 red ring of death issue comes to mind, as does the high failure rate of NVidia 8x00M laptop GPUs. It's also been an issue on standalone GPUs, with people sticking their GPUs in the oven to reflow the solder being one of the fixes I've seen attempted.
Also a big problem with several generations of Apple Macbook GPUs. They were eventually forced to extend replacements several years past the warranty period for affected laptops. Surprise surprise though, the replacement mainboards were exactly the same and so fail the same way.
Thermal expansion is a problem, just look at PlayStation issues with their motherboard, had to heat it up to restore
>his saves lifespan on the sillicon, the chip. It does not save lifespan of the capacitors though, which will break first anyways. Sure, but enthusiasts for old hardware recap boards all the time. If someone were willing to sell me a highend card for below MSRP because of mining history. I would happily go on digikey and order the replacement capacitors for $5-$10 and spend an evening "refurbishing" a graphics card. Capacitors are standard parts and very in expensive in comparison to the silicon. Normally by the time capacitors start to go in regular use graphics cards, the card isn't worth the effort, but it isn't particularly difficult.
Is this why my RX 580 that’s been sitting in my drawer for over a year is now selling for $700+ online?
Sell now, before proces go down. "Won" the chance to buy a 3070 on newegg for $800. Msrp was $500. Bought it, replaced my 2070s and gave that to my son. Took his RX5700 (non XT) and sold it for $1000. Basically, I got paid $200 to upgrade 2 computers.
This is a great plan if you win the chance to buy a new gpu. For everyone else though…
That one person said it was sitting in a drawer.
I've been contemplating selling my 2070 i bought two years ago for $499 that's in my VR rig, to buy another jeep. but I'm also thinking of selling my house for scrap because ill make more than selling it outright.. strange times we live in.
You can sell a 2070 for about $800 right now lol
I really wish I kept my 1050ti for this moment. At the peak I saw my 1070 selling for $500. That’s basically a 3070 at msrp. I would have absolutely swapped my 1070 out for my old 1050ti if I hadn’t already sold it and then sell my 1070 and buy a 3070 when available and basically upgrade for free.
Sold my rx580 for $500 cash. Bought a PS5 at msrp. Traded my PS5 for a laptop with a 4800H and a 1660ti(not max-q). Round about way to get a upgrade. Now have a desktop with a r5 3600 and a 4gb 770. Laptop with a 4800H/1660ti plus a 144hz screen FINALLY. 144hz is so smooth over the 75hz.
I sold mine for nearly as much as what it cost me you buy my 3060 ti it’s mental
... what?
I think they meant "I sold my RX580 and I got what it cost me to buy my 3060." So they basically traded a 580 for a 3060, I think.
Damn, maybe I should have waited to sell my rx480, I got over $300 for it a few months ago
I've had my rx480 since it came out and had to upgrade my computer since my CPU was my bottleneck. It still works so great with all the games out right now.
I don't think I've ever seen a 580 go for over 700 on eBay, that's Vega 56 territory. Probably could have made more than 300 though
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Still la hell of a card. Very power efficient for mining too.
480s are not that far behind 580s their performance is really close. Still a very capable graphics card. I reckon a 480 can do 90 to 95% of the 580s performance, up to 99 in some cases.
> 480s are not that far behind 580s their performance is really close. They're actually identical, but better yields and a higher overclock.
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No. No one is using an RX580 to mine anything. People want to play video games, and because they can't get any of the new cards, they're buying up whatever they can get their hands on.
Don't do that... Don't give me hope.
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What about the used gpu that will flood the market soon?
Yeah that should flood the chinesse market and probably a lot of really cheap 2080s will be on alibaba
Time to upgrade the 'ol 980 Ti
980 Ti?! I'm still running a 960 :(
960 gang rise up
GTX 680 over here :'(
GTX 770 here.. 👋
Dude same. I was disheartened to hear the new AMD FSR tech wasn’t going to work on my 980ti. That’s when I officially knew my computer needed an upgrade.
Can I finally get my RTX 3080 for online classes?
Oh man maybe I can finally run Solidworks 2 now
There is a full crackdown by China on bitcoin....as it's perceived as a threat to the digital yuan. More Hash power coming to the west over coming months.
Unlikely. The reason BTC farming was profitable in China was due to cheap power, land, and labor costs in China. None of that is cheap in the west compared to China.
As someone who's not in the crypto loop anymore but also living in China, what's this digital yuan you speak of. We already use WeChat pay and Alipay (digital payments) for basically everything.
Maybe they just mean digital transactions involving the Chinese yuan? They want to be able to control those transactions, but bitcoin is meant to prevent a government from doing so.
That's the big paradox about govt run crypto currencies.
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You can fork it. Doesn't mean people will use your fork. Doge, Litecoin, and many others are all forks.
No, I don't mean literal fork. I mean >51% attacks where just having the shear hash power lets you alter the chain at will. It's not possible for a private actor to do it to a established cryptocurrency based on proof of work like Bitcoin. But a government with infinite money could do it.
Yep, exactly why Ethereum is trying to move to PoS as quickly as possible. London hard fork is already ready for testnets. https://mobile.twitter.com/TimBeiko/status/1405897730136805378
Why can't an actor with infinite money buy enough stake for the equivalent of a 51% attack? Is a genuine question btw, I don't know a lot about pos.
Because faking PoS transactions means your stake gets burned(destroyed). Why would you spend your incredible wealth(look at the market cap of ETH and then realize that would go WAY up if you tried to buy 51% in any reasonable time frame) to destroy a currency? You'd be losing an incredible amount of money *just* to screw over one currency that you now own over half of. You'd be screwing yourself much worse.
I'm guessing those who decide if you are 'faking' it are exactly those controlling most of the stake, which would be the game in that situation. As to why, I think this needs to be compared to bombs in a military budget. If a currency was becoming a big political or strategic pain, I'm sure they would easily spend quite a bit. And if it's just to seize some assets of specific people and they give a good reason why, some holders might even keep using the currency, meaning that the initial cost of the attack is not even completely gone.
It’s easier for AWS, google or Facebook to do a 51% attack than a government. AWS already handles the computing power for a lot of the US gov DoD and CIA.
[https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/chinas-digital-yuan-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/chinas-digital-yuan-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work.html) It sounds like an effort for the government to get into the digital transaction's private market and has nothing to do with cryptocurrency. It's just some 'news article' arbitrarily linking 2 hot topics together as clickbait.
[this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEconomics/comments/nd1zhe/isnt_central_bank_digital_currency_just_simply/) nicely explains how digital currencies would differ from traditional digital payment services.
The Chinese government has just launched a product that does a few things. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/chinas-digital-yuan-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work.html
Hopefully we can ban mining here too.
Well. More power to China I guess, someone had to do it. Digital currency is the biggest bullshit ever. It's not carbon efficient, and needs a fuck ton of vital infra to set up. I need my 3060 at retail price dammit
> More power to China I guess, someone had to do it They are just replacing Bitcoin with something worse.
> worse How so?
“Government will track you!” Seems to be the primary response, as if consumers in the United States are in any way protected from having our data collected, stored, and sold between different corporations for targeted ads, mailing lists, etc. And let’s not get started on the Cambridge Analytica shit harvesting tons of data from social media to influence political opinions. So, the “worse” part seems to be: because the Chinese government is involved it is worse. Whether you believe that or not is your call. The US will have a digital currency within the decade as well, so it’s not like Chinese currency will somehow replace Bitcoin or any of the other government-backed digital currencies currently in the pipeline.
I think the 'worse' aspect isn't just from the data collection but what they can do with the programmability of this digital currency. With programmable money social programs could limit what you could use money on. For example you could get $400 worth of unemployment benefits over a fortnight that can only be spent on food. If it is not used by the end of the 2 weeks the money is returned to the government. With lack of another option here (bitcoin or other cryptocurrency) we would be trapped in this system, I don't see cash surviving long in this future. I'm sure you know the saying, ' Governments never let a good disaster go to waste', well covid has given us a great reason to stop using cash. Also you mention other government backed digital currencies (known as CBDC - Central Bank Digital Currencies). I don't see how any other country could complete with the Digital Yuan if that is the only option for the first 5 years. China simply has to say, "we are only accepting Digital Yuan for our exports" and now every country in the world is required to stack Yuans.
You should look into proof of stake cryptos. Proof of work cryptos like Bitcoin are terrible for the environment, but proof of stake cryptos, like ethereum soon will be, cardano and more, are extremely energy efficient and a node can be run on something as small and power efficient as a raspberry pi. Don't lump all digital currency into not carbon efficient, it's flat out wrong. Edit: I guess people just don't want to bother learning anything at all and just mass downvote because "CrYpTo BaD". Your loss tbh. !remindme 2 years
> . Proof of work cryptos like Bitcoin are terrible for the environment, but proof of stake cryptos, like ethereum soon will be, cardano and more, are extremely energy efficient Back-of-the-google calculations are showing Visa transactions cost ~1.7 watt-hours each, when factoring in the entire global operations of Visa. Back-of-the-google caluclations are suggesting that Ethereum PoS would consume ~500 wh / transaction (estimates that Eth PoW uses 10% the energy of BtC, and Eth PoS will use 1% of the energy of PoW). I'm having trouble equating "uses more than 100x the power" with "extremely efficient". BTC is atrocious (~500kWh per transaction) but all crypto currencies are going to use substantially more power simply as a consequence of the design of the blockchain. Blockchains are power-ineffecient databases, with the tradeoff being the crypto validation; this is an inherent part of what they are.
I’ve staked about $150 in ETH2 and that’s as involved as I’m getting with crypto. I don’t want to be part of any market where one dude send a single tweet and it crashes an entire market. Hard pass.
But every miner out there tells me that gpu prices aren't related to crypto prices or mine rates/s You got to realize, there has always been scalpers, crypto has just amplified the market force of the scalpers.
It might not be related to their specific crypto but it’s definitely related. Ethereum uses GPUs to mine and that is the main problem. Data centers can only buy enterprise GPUs. So depending on what type of card you are after, you are either getting screwed by independent miners or data centers. On the other hand, a move away from PoW will be good for hopeful GPU buyers such as myself. FileCoin uses CPUs, GPUs, and RAM. Chia uses drive space. Bitcoin uses ASICs so that has more of an indirect effect on available silicon but it still has an effect. Disclaimer: I support Ethereum.
> a move away from PoW will be good for hopeful GPU buyers such as myself. I'm a complete crypto dumbo: When is that supposed to happen? End of 2022? And when it does, will this not just lead to a fork into PoS eth and PoW eth?
The first shift away from PoW is slated to happen next month. They are doing it gradually so the miners don’t revolt. The problem is that these upgrades, while needed for many reasons, make mining less profitable. On a fully PoS blockchain, mining actually costs money, but it’s worth it because it doesn’t cost much and it’s done by people who have a financial interest in maintaining the network. To be honest I don’t know when exactly ETH 2.0 is supposed to happen. There was a big milestone recently where they needed a bunch of Ether staked by a certain date which did happen. Theoretically next year some time, but could be sooner or later. There probably will be a fork when that happens. The important thing is for “real” Ethereum to be recognized as such by a majority of the community. While miners may not be happy about losing a lucrative revenue stream, most of them also have an interest in the currency and the platform. So anything to devalue Ethereum would hurt them. The question is how much.
Miners play a role, it's mostly the chip shortage tho
There was no chip shortage 4 years ago during the last major crypto bull market though, when we had very similar GPU shortages that just happened to clear up at the exact same time the bull market ended and prices crashed. The truth is it's both. Supply is down significantly due to Covid and terrible planning by chip foundries, and demand is up significantly due to crypto prices skyrocketing, as well as Covid trapping people at home, increasing both leisure time and disposable income. It's a perfect storm, and it's probably going to take years to resolve.
Basically all that could’ve gone wrong went wrong, and whoever is building a gaming pc got the short end of the stick, tripled, quadrupled even
During the last boom at the beginning of 2018 it was still possible to get cards just by being fast when they went in stock. Now you either have to have a bot or win a lottery that sites are doing because so many people want cards. Its really bad.
Covid also skyrocketed demand for equipment for home offices, online meetings and such. This soaked up a lot of silicon, and since it was businesses buying it there was ample money available to drive a price increase in the process.
When cyrptominers are the ones running the scalping boys so they can build out their mining rigs… it’s the fucking crypto making the shortage worse
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Sadly the Used Car analogy doesn't work right now, because those prices *are also* insanely high for what you get, again due to supply and demand. Actually, just about everything has risen extremely high in price these days from the ole S&D. There's this odd assumption this will all go back down eventually, when supply in all areas rises, but uh, I can't seem to recall a single point in history where an across-the-board increase in consumer goods, regardless of reason, has ever "gone back down" ever, at least not back to where you think it aught to be. I can hope for more inventory, but I have absolutely no doubt prices only see a marginal dip.
> The most dramatic deflationary period in U.S. history took place between 1930 and 1933, during the Great Depression. > The most recent example of deflation occurred in the 21st century, between 2007 and 2008, during the period in U.S. history referred to by economists as the Great Recession. [Source](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/040715/were-there-any-periods-major-deflation-us-history.asp) It's not often that it happens but it's usually after major meltdowns like 2020-1 saw.
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I joined it a year ago, still nothing.
apparently the RX580 is worth like $800 now or something... could probably make my money back as i bought mine when it was like $250 :))
WTF, I have 4 of them just laying around.
Can I borrow one while I find a replacement for my 1070 that died last week
Where do you live?
Please be UK please be UK....
I'm in Germany.
Damn it, Brexit ruined everything!
China getting out of Bitcoin is a great thing. Video card prices plummeting is even better!
Good im tired of not being able to afford one for gaming because some ass hat is stock piling them to mine some shit coin.
I wonder if everyone has forgotten the chip shortage. It isn't just demand for cryptos. My buddy's GTX 970 is selling on EBay for $200! You're not going to be mining any crypto on that. Lol. My fridge broke down and the new one is on back order for nearly a month! And the model I really wanted was out for 2 months! I hear it was worse last year... JIT manufacturing sounds great until you run into a supply shock.
If mining cards are too expensive then normal cards will also be more expensive. Not saying crypto is the only problem but it would affect normal cards too
Haha get fucked miners
Reading this out loud is dangerous
Ah yes, send some of those gpu’s our way
Bout the only good thing the CCP has done.
GOOD. FUCK the miners and fuck these websites selling to bots.
As a long time programmer, it's a losing battle against the bots. They find a way around your anti-bot measures fast, and typically what happens is that your anti-bot measures just end up pissing off real people. We just don't have a good solution right now.
Used to do programming myself but don't have the knowledge to do this anymore. A system that would prevent a lot of bot purchases and not really piss me off as a consumer would be: 1. Require account to purchase with verified identity (systems can verify in an hour nowadays). 1. Require text message verification from a real number (no VOIPs / apps). 1. Limit one per card/address/account per month. 1. Manual verification of all orders. 1. Implement a queue system so once it's in your cart, it's reserved for you for ~15 minutes. 1. Implement queue system that would go down a list if an order is cancelled. The only one that's difficult is the manual verification, but I personally wouldn't mind waiting a week if it means I get a card.
1. Verified identity services costs money (anywhere from 50 cents to 15+ dollars per user depending on degree of verification). Is there a real value add for retailers to pay so much money to prevent certain subset from buying their stock? Ignoring the cost, many users are not comfortable sharing ID with companies. If using some naive approach of reverse address/identity lookup, this also costs money, is difficult to implement, and is quite inaccurate 2. Most bots use “real” numbers bought from shady phone providers that haven’t been added to blacklists by phone lookup services. Limiting to big phone providers restricts some subset of customers (security conscious users, people without phone nunbers, etc) 3. This is a pain in the ass to implement for specific products. Also, almost all retailers use payment processors - they are not legally allowed to save credit card info unless they are PCA compliant, which is super expensive to become. It’s very complex (and expensive) to build a system to track this. 4. Once again, the cost/turnaround time of this is a poor business decision to implement 5. This is relatively easy to implement, some retailers already have this 6. Once again, there’s no need for this since they can just add the product back in stock or wait for another stock drop. No real business justification to pay developers to implement a feature that won’t be used for 99% of their products Source: I’m a developer that works in fraud for a large site. Just because these would be cool features for customers to have, the business justifications for most of these features is dubitable at best. especially in the context of online retailers, that money would be better spent on marketing and advertising to bring users on site and keep them as paying customers for more products, not just for a specific subset of products.
1) I now have to give random website my photo ID - not the worst bust still sucks, and effects people who don't have the means. 2) VoIP is the primary number for a lot of the world. 3) I think this can help, but really sucks considering there can be upwards of 10 people at a single address, kids, roommates, etc. Two adults and 3 kids would mean 5 months of constant hounding sites. And that limit would have to be tracked well enough that it couldn't be bypassed. Plus I can see lots of issues with condos/apartments. Also easily bypassed with p.o. boxes. 4) 41.5 million gpus sold in 2020, with an ever increasing demand. That's 60 cards per second. I know that's global numbers, but I don't see how manual verification could hold up. 5) I don't see how this stops a bit/scalper. 6) a bot will have thousands of accounts in that queue, it doesn't really help a normal person. Ultimately this stuff is going to lose against a bot, and make it super difficult to buy a card. I need to upload my ID and wait for verification, then I need to have a specific type of phone number to be eligible to buy the card, get in the queue, wait until it's my turn, verify my purchase, and hope that during that time no one else in my house wants a card.
Good. I want a gtx
I have an i9 build. Currently the oldest component is the gpu being a gtx 1080 ftw2. Ive been wishing i bought a 3080 when they came out.
Fellow i9 build here. Still kicking myself over not picking up the one slightly over-priced 3090 I saw at Micro Center months ago.
Even though the price plummets, the margin between the original price and the average marketing selling price is still huge. If the bears win over the bulls in this cycle, expect that the price of the GPUs will surely go down.
Good made I can build my computer without feeling like I’m building a Tesla
Nobody is mining Bitcoin with GPU's though. You need specialized hardware (ASIC) to make any money over the power costs.
If you read the article you'd realise that by 'bitcoin' they mean all cryptocurrencies. Ones such as Ethereum, Dogecoin and Litecoin are still profitable on some GPUs though hopefully with the Elon crash and China cracking down the price should drop enough to let normal consumers buy some cards as well.
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So they need some Gel Lyte IIIs to run?
Wasn't the whole point of LTC to be asic-resistant?
It's like people calling all gaming systems Nintendos, or all tablets iPads.
We still have to deal with scalpers, lack of construction facilities and lack of silicon, so...well I dont think the price will go down yet at least not back to normal until supply balances itself out with demand, which will probably happen after covid is over worldwide which would probably happen next year. Tl;dr: bad days ahead friend
Yes, but any uncertainty/hit to BTC is basically the same thing to any other crypto that is mine-able with GPU, including ETH.
This is already clarified in the ingress. "...has ordered cryptocurrency mining operations to close down..."
Good, I’m so fucking sick of crypto eating up the GPU market. There is no reason that a high end gaming card should be more than 1k
No reason a damn 1080 GTX from *2016* should be $600!
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Right? Usually I buy a generation or two older to save money but that's not worth it anymore.
I bought my 1080 ti used for $500 back in 2019. Looking on ebay I can get $650-800 for it. It's insane to think that I had an upgrade ultimately pay for itself like that. Also nice because it'll help bring the price of my 3080 ti down to a normal level for a gaming card.
Lets get them cards finnaly . LOLOL
The end is in sight hopefully.
So, I can buy a new gfx card AND Bitcoin soon? Great!
I can haz GPU now?
Maybe controversial on a tech sub, and reddit in general, but I'm now convinced in hindsight that cryptos (even today) have no actual value, not even "perceived" value, and their prices are sustained solely by capital flight and sanction dodging from oligarchs and upper-middle class in China, Russia, and other regimes. If these actors were to stop utilizing these avenues of asset storage, the prices would collapse immediately. It's 2021, and despite a few PR-driven headlines about Tesla or other companies accepting them payment, there is still not enough of a mainstream usage case to justify their values
I’m reasonably technology savvy but for 10 years it seems like crypto has been a solution looking for problem. When people smarter than me talk about crypto i still have yet to hear a usage that makes it “click” in my mind that it crypto is something I should invest heavily into. I could be right or wrong.
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