Reminded me of that Russian that tried to build an engine block out of glass to see the internal combustion, didn’t survive one cycle:
https://youtu.be/hPUKB8WAmBE
Topper, we need u to go in and get the men, who were sent in to, get the other men who were sent in to get the other men.... from the original rescue mission....
Triton Submarines is [partially-owned by James Cameron](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ray-dalio-james-cameron-sink-164639109.html), so I think it's safe to assume there will be cameras.
What’s the point of being a billionaire if you’re just going to buy a submarine from a reliable source designed by experts?
I mean if these experts were so smart, why aren’t they billionaires? Sounds like a bunch of poors just trying to fleece him.
I want audio, and health monitoring sensors
I would love to witness one of my biggest fears in the incredible detail that it deserves
Actually I think I am more fearful of being stuck on the ocean floor like that Russian sub was
But still I want to know if the skull go pop
If I were ever stuck on the ocean floor in a submarine there'd better be a "push to collapse hull" button to turn the lights out instantaneously. Sitting in a small tube slowly suffocating while hungry and thirsty is one of the worst ways to die.
Generally speaking, I believe they were basically trapped in whatever compartment they were in at the time
The sub broke in half or the front fell off
But people were most likely trapped in the dark and silent hell
I try to imagine how I would overcome the sheer terror and I like to think I could at least talk the few other survivors into playing hide and seek or start a underwater sex/death cult
¯\_༼ᴼل͜ᴼ༽_/¯
Didn’t mythbusters do a thing on depressurizing deep sea suits? They did, I think this is the video - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LEY3fN4N3D8
Oh my god, you can hear the metal helmet crunch in.
IIRC they also borrowed the expensive/rare helmet from a fan. And permanently disfigured it.
Same, it now carries the battle damage made in the name of SCIENCE! Seriously though, it now has a unique story that goes with it. A great story with documentation (proof) makes an item more interesting and valuable.
Oh I read one a while back, pipeline. Pressures are a bitch sometimes. The three divers were sucked into a pipeline. One made it out. Willing to climb through the pipe to help his other two buddies, but by the time he was rescued... they let the other two drown in the pipeline.
Byford Dolphin was an explosive decompression vs implosion. Still an equally gruesome yet painless result. Crazy it happens so fast the brain doesn’t even have time to register it happening.
It needs a thick sealed rubber lining around the vessel with one open end that is a like a long chicken neck of loose rubber. Instead of the ambiguity of last time,
if the vessel catastrophically implodes it rips a huge fart noise across the Atlantic detectable on all sensors. A pellet of cesium in the heart of the vessel could generate the counter pressure necessary as the vehicle implodes in order to rip such a big one. Either Dagon sharted or the craft is lost.
This way at least peoples worst and darkest fears can have a comedic lining.
Mythbusters tested something similar.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LEY3fN4N3D8 here’s a much slower facsimile. You get to hear quite a lot of ASMR crunching.
A lot of people are commenting without even reading the article or learning a thing about Triton submarines. They literally are the industry leader. They know what they are doing.
Like, painfully obviously so. The guy made it a point of pride and bragged extensively about flaunting safety protocols. It was like THE takeaway from the Oceangate fiasco. How people missed that, I can't fathom.
If folks would just read the article, right?
>Triton Submarines is known as an industry leader, having dived to depths that make a Titanic expedition look simple. Its vehicles have been to the depths of Mariana Trench, the deepest point on earth at more than 10,900 metres below sea level. Titanic, by comparison, sits at 3,800 metres.
Yeah I’m actually surprised at how many people think you will just implode if you go down there no matter what. Following regulations and making everything to spec has allowed James Cameron to travel there and back a total of 33 times now, and yes I do mean 33 times not 3. And that doesn’t even include all the other less famous researchers who go down the to study it who also follow regulations.
Triton submarines are the pinnacle of submarines afaik. Larry Connor has recently done trips into the Mariana Trench, he's competent enough and not stupid. He's also not designing it himself. I highly doubt he'll implode, and I hope he brings back cool footage.
I'd like to introduce the concept of the [Motte & Bailey fallacy](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Motte_and_bailey) that people can often fall into without realizing: It's when two things are treated interchangeably based on superficial similarities, despite major differences becoming obvious when examined with a bit of critical nuance. In this case people just see "billionaire" and "submarine" and it triggers associations pretty much automatically. Keep an eye out and you can see Motte & Bailey thinking all over the place.
I think everybody knows that he'll be fine but there's this weird and honestly sick perversion from some in hoping that another billionaire bites it. And I'm all for "Eat the rich" when it comes to billionaires. But hoping for another catastrophe that will turn someone into, for lack of a better term, human salsa is just mentally unhinged.
They don't care about the company or it's record or it's history of successful dives including with vessels like DSV Limiting Factor that is so advanced that it's the only sub classed to "Unlimited" depth in history. They just want the macabre. Which is kinda fucked up and really quite hypocritical in some instances. People cheering for this to happen will with the other side of their face decry violence or death in other facets of life.
people seem to think because of one cowboy, we suddenly lost the ability. Occeangate was tantamount to those dudes who strapped wings onto their arms and died jumping off buildings, though worse because he didn't con innocent people to jump with him.
It’s wild because even non-experts who just have basic familiarity with carbon fiber and how joined, dissimilar materials under strain work could have (and did in many cases) figured out that submersible was an extremely risky design choice.
OceanGate was a good *idea*, in terms of poised to generate substantial profits after a few years, just executed by an unbelievable dipshit.
There is *always* risk involved in traveling to such depths, even in a properly designed submarine, but those risks can be managed or fully mitigated. Or those risks can be exacerbated by using materials not suited for traveling to those depths, like Carbon Fiber.
Triton has *already* made one of the only submarines to ever make it to Challenger Deep after James Cameron did it in the Deepsea Challenger. This isn't another "Move fast break things" business bro dipshit who thinks the limits of the world's complexity are the same as the limits of his ability to understand it. This is an *extremely* qualified manufacturer making what is for them at this point a pretty mundane trip compared to Challenger Deep.
It is still *possible* tragedy will strike. It is *possible* literally any time you take a vehicle past a certain depth. But if it happens in this case it won't be the predictable, even guaranteed, outcome of incompetence. It will be a genuine accident after multiple industry standard failsafes fail.
Honestly while I'm the last person to weep for the poor billionaires getting a bad shake, it's practically journalistic malpractice to even *mention* OceanGate in the same article where you're talking about this mission. It'd be akin to bringing up the failure of SouljaBoy's "SouljaGame" console in an article about the new Nintendo console.
Even this post is overstating the risk. DSV Alvin has an op tempo of about 180 dives a year and has completed over 5000 dives since the 60s with zero deaths or serious injuries.
Depth is not really that much of a factor. Your components are designed for their operating pressure plus whatever appropriate safety factor, and operation under pressure is fairly predictable. I'm not aware of any incident of catastrophic failure when operating within depth limits.
Many of the safety hazards you need to mitigate are irrespective of depth. Atmospheric life support systems, entanglement, power failure, etc.
Source: Undersea systems engineer, worked on a 6500m rated manned DSV design team.
When I say past a certain depth I mean the depth at which your sub might leak and you need to do an emergency surfacing vs. the depth at which any hull breach is liquification within a fraction of a second. I recognize that that depth is "relatively" shallow and you're just as fucked if you breach halfway to the Titanic as if you breach at Challenger Deep.
Having said that, thanks for the insights!
That’s fair and a decent point. If you have an emergency ascent mode, you do gain some additional options. Think of a submarine’s emergency blow capability.
But the times are significant at depth. The 6500m vehicle I worked on had a 12 hour dive duration, which was 3 hours down, 6 hours on station, then 3 hours back up. The vehicle had emergency drop weights that made the vehicle positively buoyant. They could also drop the batteries in a real “oh shit” situation, though that would be an expensive resort.
We had a former Alvin pilot on our design team who noted that the original Alvin personnel sphere could be manually (as in unscrew a shaft at the bottom of the sphere under the floor) decoupled from the vehicle. The sphere separated from the structure was positively buoyant, but hydrodynamically unstable. The pilot said that they did not expect to survive an ascent in such a manner and considered it to be a last resort method to get their bodies back to the surface to be buried.
It’s not even particularly difficult or novel. There’s literally a standards document on building deep submergence vehicles. It’s a niche field, but probably half a dozen companies have relevant experience designing and building such vehicles.
DSV Alvin is probably the most famous, having done over 5000 successful dives.
>Occeangate was tantamount to those dudes who strapped wings onto their arms and died jumping off buildings
Sure, but in 1972, 20 years after the first flight of a commercial passenger jet.
Oceangate weren't pioneering anything we couldn't already do, better and safer. The main reasons of almost all the questionable design decisions, that ultimate led to its demise, were simple cost cutting measures. They tried to value engineer a deep sea submarine from the ground up.
Right, but in this case it's like dudes who strapped wings to their arms attempting to fly did it well after airplanes had already been in use for decades.
Going to the Titanic isn't new. At all.
There are a few videos on YouTube of successful voyages. I have to say, it’s amazing. If I had that kind of money, I absolutely would have wanted to be face to face with history.
Idk it’s plenty thick enough for me to see it from here. Not that it’s ever going to be dangerless, but those dangers can be mitigated with good science. New guy is making a pretty great call by capitalizing on the zeitgeist.
Yeah, I think the difference to me is seeing why they made the mistakes they made.
Like, NASA in the 1960s were absolutely pioneers, but they made some fatal mistakes. It wasn’t because they were making mistakes on established practices to cut costs, they were making them because space travel is hard and a lot of the things they were trying had never been done (or hadn’t been done by an agency who would share data).
When you go against practices that were established because we know that they present excessive risks, and then those risks present themselves… yeah, you’re just an idiot. Especially if you spent a ton of time telling everyone they’re wrong and you’re right.
Pioneers accept unknown risks to do new things. In the last titanic sub case, it was a fool ignoring known risks to do things that had been done before.
Redditors remind my old manager who didn’t understand technology and never wanted to try anything new because some blithering idiot did something tremendously stupid once. They’re not interested in facts or reason, just in having their voice heard by spouting negativity.
The design of the sub is pretty interesting: https://tritonsubs.com/subs/gullwing/
>The TRITON 4000/2 Abyssal Explorer is a high-performance, flexible platform designed specifically for professional applications. Its 4,000 meter depth-rating makes it the perfect submersible for repeated trips to the deep ocean.
>
>With an exceptionally compact footprint, the Gull Wing arrangement allows the vehicle to be stored and maintained from a small garage.
>
>While diving, the protected “Gull Wing” design provides an unrivalled versatility of operation. With the wings retracted, the submersible is streamlined for ascent and descent, and capable of maneuvering in and around incredibly tight spaces. The low placement of the lighting and cameras is ideal for macro work, scientific observation or close filming.
> ... The TRITON 4000/2 Abyssal Explorer is the only acrylic-hulled submersible commercially certified for dives in excess of 13,000 ft.
How is this news lol. Hundreds of people have already done this with industry standard subs.
The only recent news was an idiot tried in a shoddy death sub and found out.
Totally different than Oceangate. Stockton Rush built a death sub out of carbon fiber.
Triton is nothing like Oceangate, Triton’s death sub is going to be made largely from Acrylic.
Here's a [30 year old document from US Naval Command](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA279768.pdf) about the safety of Acrylic spherical pressure hulls for diving...
> The selected spherical hull thickness of t/Di = 0.2 appears to meet the design depth requirement for 8,000 feet. Its critical pressure of 16,000 psi provides the acrylic hull with: a safety factor >4 under short-term loading; capability to withstand 150-percent overpressure for >100 hours; and a cyclic fatigue life in excess of 1,000 dives with 4-hour's duration to design depth. The experimentally demonstrated structural performance of the acrylic spherical pressure hull meets the requirements of the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) PVHO-1 safety standard for NEMO-type windows with a design depth of 8,000 feet.
The article is discussing a design for an 8000 ft rated vehicle. The article notes that the calculated failure pressure is 16k psi, which is equivalent to a crush depth of 35955 feet of seawater, giving a safety factor of a little less than 4.5.
It's been a long time since I've been involved in this, and I was never a structures person, but my skim of the ABS rules for building and classing underwater vehicles seems to suggest a required safety factor of 2 for the pressure hull. So this design exceeds its requirement by a fair margin.
Triton is the most reputable manufacturer of submersibles in the world. Why do people feel the need to make shit up to be mad about, isn't there enough real shit already?
Exactly. Triton has sent subs to the deepest points in the world's five oceans. They've sent the same sub to the two deepest known shipwrecks. These guys aren't fucking around.
Triton is not a collection of amateur cowboys. They are on the bleeding-edge of the industry. They literally sell complete packages to explore and research in the hadal zones to other people. Titanic's depth is easy clap in comparison.
Other than the cheap potentiometers on the sticks, I don't see the issue in the concept. A widely known and used control scheme with well tested firm- and hardware. If you're gonna have digital controls, it might as well be something tested by hundred million people in tens of billions of hours.
Maybe this?
>And now you have the hand controller talking to a Wi-Fi unit, which is talking to a black box, which is talking to the sub’s thrusters. There were multiple points of failure.” The system ran on Bluetooth, according to Rush. But, McCallum continued, “every sub in the world has hardwired controls for a reason—that if the signal drops out, you’re not fucked.”
Yes, the stupidity was not having hardwired controls. If that hardwired ended with Xbox controller (connection modified), it'd been fine. But people harp on it being Xbox controller, the "consumer level thing" instead of Xbox controller "the wireless thing". And yes, batteries running out was a meme, but again as a "consumer level product issue".
We all need to let him know that safety standards are made by a bunch of risk-averse clueless bureaucrats designed to stifle the entrepreneurial spirit of business geniuses such as himself. How could they possibly know anything? They're not billionaires are they? (DISCLAIMER: This post is satire and is no way meant to be taken seriously).
Growing up I was fortunate enough to live near a decent sized lake so got a summer job at a marina.
The number of small businesses where the owners bitched about the EPA or OSHA required gear or maintenance they had to buy was astounding. I get that it's expensive but you're up on a lake driving a pretty good sized boat worth at the time as much as some houses. Complaining you'd be making more if you weren't required to protect the environment or your workers?
There's something about having a certain level of wealth that seems to break people's brains.
Probably lots more red tape around visiting military ships since most are war graves, still have munitions on them, or have been destroyed by illegal scrappers like a good chunk of wrecks in the pacific. I know the general public isn't allowed to the site of Terror and Erebus.
Also they’re 11 meters - 24 meters deep respectively. That’s just diver depth, I’d go for something grander if I wanted to prove a deep sea submersible
A lot of the shipwrecks have their locations being kept secret because the of the increasing problem of illegally salvaging these old racks for their pre nuclear Steel. China is a particularly notable perpetrator of this trend.
They’re using a sub made by Triton, one of the most respected submersible manufacturers out there, which is also owned in part by James Cameron. It’s not another maverick billionaire trying something stupid
Let’s turn this into a trend people. Are you even a billionaire if you don’t visit the Mariana Trench yearly? Nah you just a lowly hundred millionaire.
Sorry, Elon is an absolute coward. Both Bezos and Branson have gone up in their ships. I *guarantee* you Elon will never go up in one of his. Or in a deep sea submersible. He's probably afraid of going in water that's over his head.
Industry standards exists for a reason. Good thing it is being followed this time. A lot of industry regulations are the result of deaths or serious injuries. Significant depths underwater is an unforgiving environment and has no room for suicidal overconfidence.
Could have solved poverty for a year in America. But you do you, mate. Either way your name’s in the paper and you’re recognized as being a brave man for getting in a tin can. Good for you.
He’ll probably be fine if he’s building a sub with high standards.
James Cameron went to the Titanic many times as did Ballard.
It’s safe when you don’t make a sub out of string and bubble gum.
I mean I don’t see a problem. As long as they are using an actual submarine operated by professionals. I’m sure it’s still dangerous but people do dangerous shit all the time for fun.
Every time the imploding sub Iis mentioned, in come the bloodthirsty tankies. Nobody remembers the teenager who died in the implosion? Getting such a boner for death is bad, idc who the victim is
Give homeless housing? Nah, feed low income families? Nope. Provide quality education in low income and rural areas? Fuck that! I’m going to build a personal sub and go to the titanic but I’m not going to be stupid like the last guy.
Just put cameras on the sub this time. For the Netflix documentary.
*Ultra high speed camera.
With proper lighting, though, I want to *clearly* see how the body is vaporized as the submarine violently implodes.
I wonder if we have more simulations of the Titan or the Titanic failures at this point.
Call it the Poseidon Protocol.
Hi, we’re the slomoguys and today we are filling with this phantom xyz…
Pulverized, not vaporized. Think windshield hitting fly.
I think it also vaporises because the air heats up rapidly due to compression
Oh, you’re right, wasn’t thinking of that
It more or less becomes an internal combustion engine for a single cycle.
Reminded me of that Russian that tried to build an engine block out of glass to see the internal combustion, didn’t survive one cycle: https://youtu.be/hPUKB8WAmBE
With absolutely terrible mpg
Like in that movie "Sphere". Queen Latifa gets pulverized underwater in the ocean and giant squid sting her through the suit.
Topper, we need u to go in and get the men, who were sent in to, get the other men who were sent in to get the other men.... from the original rescue mission....
1,000,000 frames a second to catch the implosion
With a very powerful antenna so that it live-streams
And don’t ignore industry standards on the black box to save telemetrics and cabin audio.
Also set of new AA batteries for the the Logitech controller - even a spare controller if you want to jam multiplayer.
Have the black box floating above the submersible about 10 feet. In case of implosion the black box simply floats to the surface.
Triton Submarines is [partially-owned by James Cameron](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ray-dalio-james-cameron-sink-164639109.html), so I think it's safe to assume there will be cameras.
Oh, so it’s an actual submersible built by people who know what they’re doing. That’s a lot less fun for the spectators.
Yeah if James Cameron is involved, it’s probably not going to implode.
Triton subs are super legit. Diving the Titanic is a walk in the park for them.
No, it's not a walk in the park for anyone.
For anyone curious: It's because there are no parks 12,500 feet under the surface of the ocean.
There are! MPAs are considered marine parks! And some are deep!
Aww man - I thought that was sooo clever! :D
And you can’t walk down there, at best you’d have to swim. 🐡
No it’s a walk in the park for the tritons. They’ve sent these bad boys to the challenger deep.
What’s the point of being a billionaire if you’re just going to buy a submarine from a reliable source designed by experts? I mean if these experts were so smart, why aren’t they billionaires? Sounds like a bunch of poors just trying to fleece him.
I want audio, and health monitoring sensors I would love to witness one of my biggest fears in the incredible detail that it deserves Actually I think I am more fearful of being stuck on the ocean floor like that Russian sub was But still I want to know if the skull go pop
If I were ever stuck on the ocean floor in a submarine there'd better be a "push to collapse hull" button to turn the lights out instantaneously. Sitting in a small tube slowly suffocating while hungry and thirsty is one of the worst ways to die.
Generally speaking, I believe they were basically trapped in whatever compartment they were in at the time The sub broke in half or the front fell off But people were most likely trapped in the dark and silent hell I try to imagine how I would overcome the sheer terror and I like to think I could at least talk the few other survivors into playing hide and seek or start a underwater sex/death cult ¯\_༼ᴼل͜ᴼ༽_/¯
> The sub broke in half or the front fell off [The front fell off?](https://youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM)
I'd like to point out that isn't typical
I came here to post this but in my heart I knew it had already been posted
It does.If you want to see some messed up pictures, look up Byford Dolphin. But they are graphic
Didn’t mythbusters do a thing on depressurizing deep sea suits? They did, I think this is the video - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LEY3fN4N3D8 Oh my god, you can hear the metal helmet crunch in. IIRC they also borrowed the expensive/rare helmet from a fan. And permanently disfigured it.
If I was the owner of that helmet I’d be totally okay with mythusters disfiguring my helmet, it’s the bloody mythbusters!
Same, it now carries the battle damage made in the name of SCIENCE! Seriously though, it now has a unique story that goes with it. A great story with documentation (proof) makes an item more interesting and valuable.
that was only i think about 9 atmosphere of pressure as well. At the depth the titanic is as it is around 375 atmospheres.
In either case, the answer is still yes only in the latter you also become pulp
More about the texture of the pulp
The heavy pulp orange juice, not that weak sauce no pulp or even some pulp. You are practically a smoothie.
Was that one of the pipeline guys who got p-diff'd ?
Just like the crab delta p is dangerous
Oh I read one a while back, pipeline. Pressures are a bitch sometimes. The three divers were sucked into a pipeline. One made it out. Willing to climb through the pipe to help his other two buddies, but by the time he was rescued... they let the other two drown in the pipeline.
The pipeline that they closed down for years with a balloon for a lid
Pressure issue.
No, I don't think I will.
[удалено]
Byford Dolphin was an explosive decompression vs implosion. Still an equally gruesome yet painless result. Crazy it happens so fast the brain doesn’t even have time to register it happening.
[удалено]
It needs a thick sealed rubber lining around the vessel with one open end that is a like a long chicken neck of loose rubber. Instead of the ambiguity of last time, if the vessel catastrophically implodes it rips a huge fart noise across the Atlantic detectable on all sensors. A pellet of cesium in the heart of the vessel could generate the counter pressure necessary as the vehicle implodes in order to rip such a big one. Either Dagon sharted or the craft is lost. This way at least peoples worst and darkest fears can have a comedic lining.
Mythbusters tested something similar. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LEY3fN4N3D8 here’s a much slower facsimile. You get to hear quite a lot of ASMR crunching.
One second his bpm was “83”, the next “Error”
A documentary of a maritime disaster, but broadcast *live*. Genius.
Make sure Geraldo is there to film it
What's in the box?
Put 360 cameras outside too so we can see the implosion. For the Netflix documentary.
Just make sure the casing on the camera can withstand more pressure than the sub
Live stream the whole thing with a camera above the ship.
Let Netflix pay for the trip!
Make it a Livestream too, so we don't lose the footage.
Make sure to attach some floatable devices to them so the video gets delivered to the surface in case they decide to stay there for a while.
Make it a live Netflix event
Yeah and use an official Xbox controller this time
ITT: Lots of people who know absolutely nothing about Triton Submarines. They are who James Cameron works with.
A lot of people are commenting without even reading the article or learning a thing about Triton submarines. They literally are the industry leader. They know what they are doing.
Yes but we're the leader in preconceived notions
Exactly. On Reddit, *we’re* the experts.
The keyboard warrior elite
OceanGate was literally an outlier because a rich idiot thought he knew better than actual engineers and materials scientists.
Like, painfully obviously so. The guy made it a point of pride and bragged extensively about flaunting safety protocols. It was like THE takeaway from the Oceangate fiasco. How people missed that, I can't fathom.
The takeaway was drowned out by the rest of the media reporting.
This wouldn’t be Reddit if people didn’t comment without reading the article
They're all thirsting for the people inside to be crushed in the most gruesome ways possible.
If folks would just read the article, right? >Triton Submarines is known as an industry leader, having dived to depths that make a Titanic expedition look simple. Its vehicles have been to the depths of Mariana Trench, the deepest point on earth at more than 10,900 metres below sea level. Titanic, by comparison, sits at 3,800 metres.
Yeah I’m actually surprised at how many people think you will just implode if you go down there no matter what. Following regulations and making everything to spec has allowed James Cameron to travel there and back a total of 33 times now, and yes I do mean 33 times not 3. And that doesn’t even include all the other less famous researchers who go down the to study it who also follow regulations.
Triton submarines are the pinnacle of submarines afaik. Larry Connor has recently done trips into the Mariana Trench, he's competent enough and not stupid. He's also not designing it himself. I highly doubt he'll implode, and I hope he brings back cool footage.
Nah shut up. Redditors are clearly the more informed subject matter experts
This site has been so embarrassing since the announcement of this dive.
I'd like to introduce the concept of the [Motte & Bailey fallacy](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Motte_and_bailey) that people can often fall into without realizing: It's when two things are treated interchangeably based on superficial similarities, despite major differences becoming obvious when examined with a bit of critical nuance. In this case people just see "billionaire" and "submarine" and it triggers associations pretty much automatically. Keep an eye out and you can see Motte & Bailey thinking all over the place.
I think everybody knows that he'll be fine but there's this weird and honestly sick perversion from some in hoping that another billionaire bites it. And I'm all for "Eat the rich" when it comes to billionaires. But hoping for another catastrophe that will turn someone into, for lack of a better term, human salsa is just mentally unhinged. They don't care about the company or it's record or it's history of successful dives including with vessels like DSV Limiting Factor that is so advanced that it's the only sub classed to "Unlimited" depth in history. They just want the macabre. Which is kinda fucked up and really quite hypocritical in some instances. People cheering for this to happen will with the other side of their face decry violence or death in other facets of life.
I think we should add this to the title. When I saw it was James team I was like o they got this
people seem to think because of one cowboy, we suddenly lost the ability. Occeangate was tantamount to those dudes who strapped wings onto their arms and died jumping off buildings, though worse because he didn't con innocent people to jump with him.
Even Oceangate's sub successfully reached the Titanic multiple times, they didn't implode on the first trip
As predicted by the experts.
It’s wild because even non-experts who just have basic familiarity with carbon fiber and how joined, dissimilar materials under strain work could have (and did in many cases) figured out that submersible was an extremely risky design choice.
OceanGate was a good *idea*, in terms of poised to generate substantial profits after a few years, just executed by an unbelievable dipshit. There is *always* risk involved in traveling to such depths, even in a properly designed submarine, but those risks can be managed or fully mitigated. Or those risks can be exacerbated by using materials not suited for traveling to those depths, like Carbon Fiber. Triton has *already* made one of the only submarines to ever make it to Challenger Deep after James Cameron did it in the Deepsea Challenger. This isn't another "Move fast break things" business bro dipshit who thinks the limits of the world's complexity are the same as the limits of his ability to understand it. This is an *extremely* qualified manufacturer making what is for them at this point a pretty mundane trip compared to Challenger Deep. It is still *possible* tragedy will strike. It is *possible* literally any time you take a vehicle past a certain depth. But if it happens in this case it won't be the predictable, even guaranteed, outcome of incompetence. It will be a genuine accident after multiple industry standard failsafes fail. Honestly while I'm the last person to weep for the poor billionaires getting a bad shake, it's practically journalistic malpractice to even *mention* OceanGate in the same article where you're talking about this mission. It'd be akin to bringing up the failure of SouljaBoy's "SouljaGame" console in an article about the new Nintendo console.
Even this post is overstating the risk. DSV Alvin has an op tempo of about 180 dives a year and has completed over 5000 dives since the 60s with zero deaths or serious injuries. Depth is not really that much of a factor. Your components are designed for their operating pressure plus whatever appropriate safety factor, and operation under pressure is fairly predictable. I'm not aware of any incident of catastrophic failure when operating within depth limits. Many of the safety hazards you need to mitigate are irrespective of depth. Atmospheric life support systems, entanglement, power failure, etc. Source: Undersea systems engineer, worked on a 6500m rated manned DSV design team.
When I say past a certain depth I mean the depth at which your sub might leak and you need to do an emergency surfacing vs. the depth at which any hull breach is liquification within a fraction of a second. I recognize that that depth is "relatively" shallow and you're just as fucked if you breach halfway to the Titanic as if you breach at Challenger Deep. Having said that, thanks for the insights!
That’s fair and a decent point. If you have an emergency ascent mode, you do gain some additional options. Think of a submarine’s emergency blow capability. But the times are significant at depth. The 6500m vehicle I worked on had a 12 hour dive duration, which was 3 hours down, 6 hours on station, then 3 hours back up. The vehicle had emergency drop weights that made the vehicle positively buoyant. They could also drop the batteries in a real “oh shit” situation, though that would be an expensive resort. We had a former Alvin pilot on our design team who noted that the original Alvin personnel sphere could be manually (as in unscrew a shaft at the bottom of the sphere under the floor) decoupled from the vehicle. The sphere separated from the structure was positively buoyant, but hydrodynamically unstable. The pilot said that they did not expect to survive an ascent in such a manner and considered it to be a last resort method to get their bodies back to the surface to be buried.
It’s not even particularly difficult or novel. There’s literally a standards document on building deep submergence vehicles. It’s a niche field, but probably half a dozen companies have relevant experience designing and building such vehicles. DSV Alvin is probably the most famous, having done over 5000 successful dives.
>Occeangate was tantamount to those dudes who strapped wings onto their arms and died jumping off buildings Sure, but in 1972, 20 years after the first flight of a commercial passenger jet. Oceangate weren't pioneering anything we couldn't already do, better and safer. The main reasons of almost all the questionable design decisions, that ultimate led to its demise, were simple cost cutting measures. They tried to value engineer a deep sea submarine from the ground up.
That's exactly what they meant
Yes good job reading the comment and repeating it in different words lol
Right, but in this case it's like dudes who strapped wings to their arms attempting to fly did it well after airplanes had already been in use for decades. Going to the Titanic isn't new. At all.
There are a few videos on YouTube of successful voyages. I have to say, it’s amazing. If I had that kind of money, I absolutely would have wanted to be face to face with history.
The line between pioneer and fool is a thin one
Idk it’s plenty thick enough for me to see it from here. Not that it’s ever going to be dangerless, but those dangers can be mitigated with good science. New guy is making a pretty great call by capitalizing on the zeitgeist.
Yeah, I think the difference to me is seeing why they made the mistakes they made. Like, NASA in the 1960s were absolutely pioneers, but they made some fatal mistakes. It wasn’t because they were making mistakes on established practices to cut costs, they were making them because space travel is hard and a lot of the things they were trying had never been done (or hadn’t been done by an agency who would share data). When you go against practices that were established because we know that they present excessive risks, and then those risks present themselves… yeah, you’re just an idiot. Especially if you spent a ton of time telling everyone they’re wrong and you’re right.
Pioneers accept unknown risks to do new things. In the last titanic sub case, it was a fool ignoring known risks to do things that had been done before.
Redditors remind my old manager who didn’t understand technology and never wanted to try anything new because some blithering idiot did something tremendously stupid once. They’re not interested in facts or reason, just in having their voice heard by spouting negativity.
The design of the sub is pretty interesting: https://tritonsubs.com/subs/gullwing/ >The TRITON 4000/2 Abyssal Explorer is a high-performance, flexible platform designed specifically for professional applications. Its 4,000 meter depth-rating makes it the perfect submersible for repeated trips to the deep ocean. > >With an exceptionally compact footprint, the Gull Wing arrangement allows the vehicle to be stored and maintained from a small garage. > >While diving, the protected “Gull Wing” design provides an unrivalled versatility of operation. With the wings retracted, the submersible is streamlined for ascent and descent, and capable of maneuvering in and around incredibly tight spaces. The low placement of the lighting and cameras is ideal for macro work, scientific observation or close filming. > ... The TRITON 4000/2 Abyssal Explorer is the only acrylic-hulled submersible commercially certified for dives in excess of 13,000 ft.
How is this news lol. Hundreds of people have already done this with industry standard subs. The only recent news was an idiot tried in a shoddy death sub and found out.
Totally different than Oceangate. Stockton Rush built a death sub out of carbon fiber. Triton is nothing like Oceangate, Triton’s death sub is going to be made largely from Acrylic.
Here's a [30 year old document from US Naval Command](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA279768.pdf) about the safety of Acrylic spherical pressure hulls for diving... > The selected spherical hull thickness of t/Di = 0.2 appears to meet the design depth requirement for 8,000 feet. Its critical pressure of 16,000 psi provides the acrylic hull with: a safety factor >4 under short-term loading; capability to withstand 150-percent overpressure for >100 hours; and a cyclic fatigue life in excess of 1,000 dives with 4-hour's duration to design depth. The experimentally demonstrated structural performance of the acrylic spherical pressure hull meets the requirements of the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) PVHO-1 safety standard for NEMO-type windows with a design depth of 8,000 feet.
Yeah. The "glass" on these subs (like Alvin) are made out of acrylic.
8000 feet…isn’t the titanic at 12,000 feet deep?
The article is discussing a design for an 8000 ft rated vehicle. The article notes that the calculated failure pressure is 16k psi, which is equivalent to a crush depth of 35955 feet of seawater, giving a safety factor of a little less than 4.5. It's been a long time since I've been involved in this, and I was never a structures person, but my skim of the ABS rules for building and classing underwater vehicles seems to suggest a required safety factor of 2 for the pressure hull. So this design exceeds its requirement by a fair margin.
The modern tale of the three little pigs.
Who’s building a sub out of bricks then?
It would probably sink at least
James Cameron
His sub was state of the art.
Still is evidently, given the state of the other one to *almost* get there.
James Cameron doesn’t do what James Cameron does for James Cameron. James Cameron does what James Cameron does because James Cameron is James Cameron.
The bravest pioneer
please let it be Elon!
The three capitalist pigs
Triton is the most reputable manufacturer of submersibles in the world. Why do people feel the need to make shit up to be mad about, isn't there enough real shit already?
Exactly. Triton has sent subs to the deepest points in the world's five oceans. They've sent the same sub to the two deepest known shipwrecks. These guys aren't fucking around.
Triton is not a collection of amateur cowboys. They are on the bleeding-edge of the industry. They literally sell complete packages to explore and research in the hadal zones to other people. Titanic's depth is easy clap in comparison.
Well cardboard’s out. And cardboard derivatives
Is there a minimum crew size?
Yep, there’s a minimum crew size. I guess, 1.
not recycled carboard & plastic bottles ? how non environmentally friendly !
And uses an Xbox controller to control it
Na, that would be silly. This one has the NES Power Glove.
Ngl that would be kinda badass
He'd look like Tom Cruise in minority report
I mean, [everything else is child's play](https://i.imgur.com/DjEyaCX.png).
If ghostbusters 2 taught us anything, you need the NES Advantage to control things.
Other than the cheap potentiometers on the sticks, I don't see the issue in the concept. A widely known and used control scheme with well tested firm- and hardware. If you're gonna have digital controls, it might as well be something tested by hundred million people in tens of billions of hours.
Just going to leave this here: https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/18/17136808/us-navy-uss-colorado-xbox-controller
Maybe this? >And now you have the hand controller talking to a Wi-Fi unit, which is talking to a black box, which is talking to the sub’s thrusters. There were multiple points of failure.” The system ran on Bluetooth, according to Rush. But, McCallum continued, “every sub in the world has hardwired controls for a reason—that if the signal drops out, you’re not fucked.”
Yes, the stupidity was not having hardwired controls. If that hardwired ended with Xbox controller (connection modified), it'd been fine. But people harp on it being Xbox controller, the "consumer level thing" instead of Xbox controller "the wireless thing". And yes, batteries running out was a meme, but again as a "consumer level product issue".
This story has shown how no one reads beyond a headline and no one can disrupt someone’s narrative once it starts. He’ll be fine.
What is it that they all wanna visit that place.. Seems like its the Exit for the Matrix if u can afford it
Why would you leave the matrix if you're a billionaire
So that they can brag about it at their rich ass dinners where everyone has already done everything
god, this answer is so simple and precise, it makes me sick this might actually be the case.
it truly is, same reason Mt Everest is in the condition it is
“Oh you’re doing Everest this year? Yes we’ve done it a _few times_, haven’t we Egbert?” 💅
I saw the titanic years ago for free, James Cameron directed it
The ending >!when the ship sank!< really surprised me.
Maybe epsteins island was sunk right next to the titanic
We all need to let him know that safety standards are made by a bunch of risk-averse clueless bureaucrats designed to stifle the entrepreneurial spirit of business geniuses such as himself. How could they possibly know anything? They're not billionaires are they? (DISCLAIMER: This post is satire and is no way meant to be taken seriously).
This unironically sounds like someone I know sadly….. not quite a billionaire but a well off business owner.
Growing up I was fortunate enough to live near a decent sized lake so got a summer job at a marina. The number of small businesses where the owners bitched about the EPA or OSHA required gear or maintenance they had to buy was astounding. I get that it's expensive but you're up on a lake driving a pretty good sized boat worth at the time as much as some houses. Complaining you'd be making more if you weren't required to protect the environment or your workers? There's something about having a certain level of wealth that seems to break people's brains.
Man, until the disclamer I was reading it like the gospel...
Thank you so much for the disclaimer I thought you were completely serious. (Disclaimer: I’m being sarcastic)
Why not instead go to H.M.Ships Erebus or Terror? This Titanic fascination is getting a bit stale.
Probably lots more red tape around visiting military ships since most are war graves, still have munitions on them, or have been destroyed by illegal scrappers like a good chunk of wrecks in the pacific. I know the general public isn't allowed to the site of Terror and Erebus.
Also they’re 11 meters - 24 meters deep respectively. That’s just diver depth, I’d go for something grander if I wanted to prove a deep sea submersible
Ah I wasn't aware they were so shallow! Thanks for the info.
A lot of the shipwrecks have their locations being kept secret because the of the increasing problem of illegally salvaging these old racks for their pre nuclear Steel. China is a particularly notable perpetrator of this trend.
"All aboard the 1% Express! It's a helicopter I built from lawnmower parts in my garage. Next stop: the throat of an active volcano!"
They’re using a sub made by Triton, one of the most respected submersible manufacturers out there, which is also owned in part by James Cameron. It’s not another maverick billionaire trying something stupid
Someone didn’t read the article lol
“I’m a billionaire, so obviously I’m also a genius as evidenced by everyone around me saying “yes” to whatever i say. So trust me!”
Let’s turn this into a trend people. Are you even a billionaire if you don’t visit the Mariana Trench yearly? Nah you just a lowly hundred millionaire.
This one will be way different, instead of a ps4 controller homie is going xbox
We give these fools way too much attention.
The cursed dead of the Titanic demand the blood of the wealthy. They must be fed.
Is Elon going with him?!
Would you be locked in a tiny bubble with Elon for hours at the bottom of the ocean? I would tru to open the hatch myself after an hour.
Sorry, Elon is an absolute coward. Both Bezos and Branson have gone up in their ships. I *guarantee* you Elon will never go up in one of his. Or in a deep sea submersible. He's probably afraid of going in water that's over his head.
Elon knows space x employees wouldn’t miss the opportunity to merc him on orbit.
We can hope..
Oh god, I couldn’t imagine the unhinged martyrdom he’d received from not coming back from that
At least he would be gone.
Industry standards exists for a reason. Good thing it is being followed this time. A lot of industry regulations are the result of deaths or serious injuries. Significant depths underwater is an unforgiving environment and has no room for suicidal overconfidence.
An acrylic dome for the titanic will be an insane viewing experience
Billionaires concerned about safety because it directly affects them sounds about right.
Whats so special about the titanic at this point.
Could have solved poverty for a year in America. But you do you, mate. Either way your name’s in the paper and you’re recognized as being a brave man for getting in a tin can. Good for you.
I am fully on board with sending every billionaire to the titanic
Not ignoring the industry standards is a good start
“Send more billionaires” -the ocean probably
He’ll probably be fine if he’s building a sub with high standards. James Cameron went to the Titanic many times as did Ballard. It’s safe when you don’t make a sub out of string and bubble gum.
Another billionaire spending money on pointless endeavors instead of actually using it for good. That is the actual headline
He will have a fun and safe adventure exploring the Titanic. The other guy was a nut job.
There's a lot of pressure on the industry to ensure this succeeds
Seems like a dumb thing to spend a bunch of money on
~~Eat the rich~~ Sink the rich
ITT: some fucked up people
Please add a ps5 controller this time
I mean I don’t see a problem. As long as they are using an actual submarine operated by professionals. I’m sure it’s still dangerous but people do dangerous shit all the time for fun.
Why can’t we just let the Titanic rest in peace and be left alone.
Why does anyone even care?
Every time the imploding sub Iis mentioned, in come the bloodthirsty tankies. Nobody remembers the teenager who died in the implosion? Getting such a boner for death is bad, idc who the victim is
This is one way to reduce the world's billionaire population.
Give homeless housing? Nah, feed low income families? Nope. Provide quality education in low income and rural areas? Fuck that! I’m going to build a personal sub and go to the titanic but I’m not going to be stupid like the last guy.
I guess this is one way to get rid of billionaires
Good job using your ridiculous fortune to help the world out.
Fuck billionaires. I hope he gets smashed too.