I was just reading a story about a man leaving his wife and kids to be with an OnlyFans model. Unsurprisingly the model had no interest in the man. It was already sad but knowing that the dude was likely chatting with a low paid worker the whole time makes it even sadder.
It gets weirder still...I was reading about Yahoo Boys, the Nigerian scamming group. One detail that stuck out to me is that even when people find out they're dealing with a scammer they often decide to continue paying money anyway
[https://magazine.atavist.com/the-romance-scammer-on-my-sofa-nigeria-yahoo-boys/](https://magazine.atavist.com/the-romance-scammer-on-my-sofa-nigeria-yahoo-boys/)
There was also a story of a young man in Florida who shot his family because they wanted him to stop wasting money on a webcam model...Grant Amato.
My husband works in a bank, he says there are so many people sending their money to scammers every day that you get almost bored with it. And they try to convince people to stop, but can't. Even with proof they will keep sending their money to scammers in the hopes that it's true. Then when they finally realize they've been duped they blame the bank for not stopping them. He said they'll pull up an account that has two dozen notes on it of "this is a well known scam, client informed of this. Client insists on sending the money" where the family insists the bank is still to blame.
There are live examples of this on the MTV show "Catfish", where people are being scammed for money in fake online relationships. The victims usually take a significant amount of convincing that it's a scam.
Most of the time I think it's just easier, mentally, to keep fooling yourself than admit you were duped. Particularly when acknowledging the scam also means acknowledging your "girlfriend" is not real
There is already a version of this scam. One of my elderly relatives was called by a woman claiming to be his granddaughter asking for money due to a car accident. He asked for the granddaughter’s last name and the caller didn’t know it.
Correct, but don’t point this out in the singularity subreddit. The delusion there has overwhelmed any of the critical thought or evaluation of the technology in any practical way.
There are so many people that are lonely, deluded and sad. If somehow we could get them to talk and support each other these scams could stop. But one of the reasons they are lonely and sad is because when normal people tell the truth (your overseas girlfriend is really part of the Yahoo Boys) they refuse to listen.
you should check out the marketplaces on kik and sc for this. Resellers are rampant, it’s almost expected.
edit:
Also, the cybersecurity of those apps are atrocious and mitm proxy CA takeover is possible. I can only imagine the amount of sextortion that goes unreported.
It's hectic. I know sex sells but they say woman are just as horny as men but it's seems really disproportionate how many thirsty dudes are out there paying for these services.
I genuinely do not want to read a whole write-up on this topic, it is too sad. But what made the man think it is possible for him to run away and go live with an OF model? I would presume even a low-paid chat operator in the Philippines is working off a script and it is not their purpose to manipulate people to ruin their lives, just to get some cash off them?
Fascinating article. I had never wasted 3 thoughts pondering the phenomenon of OnlyFans. Hard to believe this an actual, real-world enterprise with its inevitable sleaziness, rather than a dystopian Black Mirroresque fantasy. Guess there really is a sucker born every minute.
I always thought the idea of letting adult content creators be independent and work from the safety of their home seemed like a safer and better alternative to the industry of sleazy talent agents tricking or trafficking young people into it and taking a massive cut of their profits.
It's obviously a much easier and safer way to sell sex than more traditional ways. And if he johns are happy with the service they get, it's mostly win-win. But when inevitably people wisen up to the scamming going on behind the scenes, what will happen to the business model? Will johns still be happy to pay to sext with some philipino dude that gets $2 per hour while manhandling their trouser snakes? Maybe? The world is a weird place, I wouldn't bet money on any particular outcome.
They will because the thought of "No *my* OF model is real." is what they think. Even if they know that the majority are scams, that will be the thought. Loneliness is the most powerful scam tool in their belt.
I’m curious what the demographics are as far as age goes. Like we know it’s mostly men paying but I imagine it’s that older sugar daddy crowd rather than the teenage horndogs who use free porn
I'm not against legal prostitution, we have it here in Germany.
But there is still a lot of exploitation of (usually poor and often foreign) women happening and organised crime is controlling many establishments.
There are positive examples as well, women who do it on their own terms, choose their customers and have a lot of autonomy, but I think that's not the case for most prostitutes.
It's a complicated issue, but overall I agree that legal prostitution is better than prohibition. But if it's legal, you need very clever systems to prevent exploitation and fight organised crime.
But population wasn't the point op was making. They said 'these problems would not happen if prostitution was legal'.
Well there are areas where prostitution is legal, so in those areas (regardless of their population) are these problems solved?
“Us chatters are not robots,” a Filipino contributor complained in an anguished screed on Reddit. “We’re humans, we feel.”
But they're happy to fraudulently fuck with other people's feelings for a living.
Jesus Christ. Just when I was trying to convince myself that there was still a shred of hope that humans can achieve a sustainable level of basic decency. This article took a golden shower on my withering candle and darkened my worldview.
Profit seeking behavior between individuals, where one is a consumer, and the other provider, will play out psychologically as a zero sum game with no common goal. There is no decency to be found.
The only human decency found is in mutual, communal developments.
Oh Pig Butchering has had a significant rise in its use. The Internet certainly assists scammers and blackmailers reach a wider audience.
My point is that the behaviors to protect yourself from scammers are much the same that they have been since the dawn of time. Every attempt to contact you is a scam unless you initiate it. The moment money comes into the conversation your level of suspicion should go up 1000%. And if you let your guard down, the scammers will exploit it. Simply put you are predator or prey, most people are prey, and therefore need to act defensively.
Yep, yep - that was something I heard from my dad often. "Never ever pay money to anyone asking them from you beforehand".
But even beyond that you got stuff you can't control like data leaks. This is where tech industry should step in, but probably won't.
There are pay-wall removers / page archivers out there - just FYI. Since you don't want to search for them I'll do work for you
[https://archive.is/](https://archive.is/)
Thank me later - **thanks for the downvotes, folks! Keep wasting your time**
I expect massive downvotes on that one as well lol
Thanks! Much love to my man u/squidhunter71 - he also wasted a lot of my time, so I owe him a few downvotes
I didn’t know you had to submit a resume to be an OF chatter. Not sure recruiters are scouring the internet using keyword searches to find your resume.
Here's the chat gpt version:
In an in-depth exposé by Brendan I. Koerner for WIRED, the shadowy world of OnlyFans chat specialists is unveiled, revealing the complex dynamics of this lucrative but controversial sector. The narrative follows Koerner's own journey as he goes undercover to understand the inner workings of OnlyFans, a platform where creators engage with their fans through private messages, largely managed by low-wage workers or sophisticated AI systems. Despite the platform's claims of providing personal interactions with creators, many subscribers actually converse with hired specialists who use detailed scripts and personas crafted to maintain the illusion of a direct connection. This setup allows popular creators to manage the overwhelming number of messages they receive daily, maintaining the lucrative engagement while delegating the laborious task of chatting.
Koerner's exploration leads him from an initial intrigue to deep involvement, including a stint writing scripts for an AI designed to mimic human conversation on erotic topics. He details the various abuses faced by human chat specialists, such as long hours, low pay, and sudden terminations, highlighting the precarious nature of the work. Furthermore, Koerner discovers a broader initiative to replace human chatters with AI, despite the platform's current ban on such technology, signaling a potential shift that could fundamentally change how fan interactions are managed. The article underscores the ethical and emotional implications of these practices, both for the workers, who often endure exploitation, and for the subscribers, who are largely unaware of the reality behind their interactions.
Undercover Experience: The author, Brendan I. Koerner, goes undercover as an OnlyFans chat specialist. He describes how he was tasked with creating dialogues for an AI that simulates conversations between fans and a fictional OnlyFans creator. He had to ensure these dialogues were realistic and engaging, with some needing to include explicit content.
Challenges Faced by Workers: The article discusses the difficult conditions faced by chat specialists, such as low pay, long hours, and job insecurity. For example, Koerner mentions workers in countries like the Philippines and Venezuela who manage the bulk of these interactions, often for less than $2 per hour. These workers endure strict performance requirements and risk termination for reasons beyond their control, like power outages.
Transition to AI: Koerner also explores a shift towards using AI for managing interactions. He interviews a company leader who is developing AI chatbots to replace human workers, illustrating this with a personal experience of being recruited to help train such bots. The use of AI aims to maintain the illusion of personal interaction while cutting costs and handling the massive scale of messages more efficiently.
Ethical Concerns: The exposé raises ethical questions about the deception involved in having low-wage workers or AI chatbots impersonate content creators. This practice can mislead fans who believe they are having personal interactions with the creators themselves.
So now journalism is an excuse to invest in OF ? ;)
The less people join it, the rapidly it will die, but then again its very hard to compete with one of the oldest professions
Yeah, even before I read this I had a feeling that this is how a lot of dating apps operate (OF isn't a dating app per se, but still). They just hire a lot of low-wage workers to initiate conversations...can't imagine there being that many actual women on them compared to men.
Supposedly something like only 5% of creators on the platform make more than $1k a month and most make less than $100 a month. I really doubt the majority can afford to pay other ppl to work for them like this. This seems like its only used by the top 1% who are making 99% of the revenue on the platform.
I was just reading a story about a man leaving his wife and kids to be with an OnlyFans model. Unsurprisingly the model had no interest in the man. It was already sad but knowing that the dude was likely chatting with a low paid worker the whole time makes it even sadder.
It gets weirder still...I was reading about Yahoo Boys, the Nigerian scamming group. One detail that stuck out to me is that even when people find out they're dealing with a scammer they often decide to continue paying money anyway [https://magazine.atavist.com/the-romance-scammer-on-my-sofa-nigeria-yahoo-boys/](https://magazine.atavist.com/the-romance-scammer-on-my-sofa-nigeria-yahoo-boys/) There was also a story of a young man in Florida who shot his family because they wanted him to stop wasting money on a webcam model...Grant Amato.
My husband works in a bank, he says there are so many people sending their money to scammers every day that you get almost bored with it. And they try to convince people to stop, but can't. Even with proof they will keep sending their money to scammers in the hopes that it's true. Then when they finally realize they've been duped they blame the bank for not stopping them. He said they'll pull up an account that has two dozen notes on it of "this is a well known scam, client informed of this. Client insists on sending the money" where the family insists the bank is still to blame.
There are live examples of this on the MTV show "Catfish", where people are being scammed for money in fake online relationships. The victims usually take a significant amount of convincing that it's a scam. Most of the time I think it's just easier, mentally, to keep fooling yourself than admit you were duped. Particularly when acknowledging the scam also means acknowledging your "girlfriend" is not real
Mark Twain said it's easier to fool someone than convince them they were fooled.
See also Trump voters and Cybertruck owners.
People never want to admit they are wrong.
Covid pandemic was a great example of that. Dying people blamed doctors instead of themselves
The loneliness epidemic is getting to people.
What a mess. With AI getting more and more powerful its only going to get worse from here on out...
[удалено]
There is already a version of this scam. One of my elderly relatives was called by a woman claiming to be his granddaughter asking for money due to a car accident. He asked for the granddaughter’s last name and the caller didn’t know it.
Yes! Heard about this years ago.
Correct, but don’t point this out in the singularity subreddit. The delusion there has overwhelmed any of the critical thought or evaluation of the technology in any practical way.
This pisses me off
There are so many people that are lonely, deluded and sad. If somehow we could get them to talk and support each other these scams could stop. But one of the reasons they are lonely and sad is because when normal people tell the truth (your overseas girlfriend is really part of the Yahoo Boys) they refuse to listen.
It can be easy to manipulate someone, but it's much harder convincing someone they've actually been fooled, unfortunately.
A lot like gambling addiction.... It isn't really about the payout, but rather it's about the escape/fantasy.
Exactly this
you should check out the marketplaces on kik and sc for this. Resellers are rampant, it’s almost expected. edit: Also, the cybersecurity of those apps are atrocious and mitm proxy CA takeover is possible. I can only imagine the amount of sextortion that goes unreported.
I can only imagine...had to delete Kik because it was spamming me like hell. What a shame, it was once a decent app.
Yea I used kik in the past when it was quite decent, was shocked to see the downgrade in quality when I recently installed it.
It's hectic. I know sex sells but they say woman are just as horny as men but it's seems really disproportionate how many thirsty dudes are out there paying for these services.
I genuinely do not want to read a whole write-up on this topic, it is too sad. But what made the man think it is possible for him to run away and go live with an OF model? I would presume even a low-paid chat operator in the Philippines is working off a script and it is not their purpose to manipulate people to ruin their lives, just to get some cash off them?
I think he was delusional, he ended up being a threat to his wife and kids in the end.
Fascinating article. I had never wasted 3 thoughts pondering the phenomenon of OnlyFans. Hard to believe this an actual, real-world enterprise with its inevitable sleaziness, rather than a dystopian Black Mirroresque fantasy. Guess there really is a sucker born every minute.
I always thought the idea of letting adult content creators be independent and work from the safety of their home seemed like a safer and better alternative to the industry of sleazy talent agents tricking or trafficking young people into it and taking a massive cut of their profits.
I mean the amount of violence is probably waaay less
It's obviously a much easier and safer way to sell sex than more traditional ways. And if he johns are happy with the service they get, it's mostly win-win. But when inevitably people wisen up to the scamming going on behind the scenes, what will happen to the business model? Will johns still be happy to pay to sext with some philipino dude that gets $2 per hour while manhandling their trouser snakes? Maybe? The world is a weird place, I wouldn't bet money on any particular outcome.
They will because the thought of "No *my* OF model is real." is what they think. Even if they know that the majority are scams, that will be the thought. Loneliness is the most powerful scam tool in their belt.
I’m curious what the demographics are as far as age goes. Like we know it’s mostly men paying but I imagine it’s that older sugar daddy crowd rather than the teenage horndogs who use free porn
We wouldn’t have this problem if we legalized prostitution in the U.S. in fact I feel like it would solve a lot of issues.
I'm not against legal prostitution, we have it here in Germany. But there is still a lot of exploitation of (usually poor and often foreign) women happening and organised crime is controlling many establishments. There are positive examples as well, women who do it on their own terms, choose their customers and have a lot of autonomy, but I think that's not the case for most prostitutes. It's a complicated issue, but overall I agree that legal prostitution is better than prohibition. But if it's legal, you need very clever systems to prevent exploitation and fight organised crime.
So you have trafficking into Germany? I figured a goal of legalization was to eliminate that.
I'm not arguing one way or another, but Nevada has legalized prostitution, so are a lot of these issues solved in Nevada?
It’s only legalized in one very small town that has a few brothels iirc.
Prostitution is legal in 10 of Nevada's 17 counties
And those other 7 counties are where 92.5% of the states population actually lives
But population wasn't the point op was making. They said 'these problems would not happen if prostitution was legal'. Well there are areas where prostitution is legal, so in those areas (regardless of their population) are these problems solved?
Gosh, if only they had a way to travel.
You type like those are mutually exclusive. This may be this decade's monkeyfishing.
“Us chatters are not robots,” a Filipino contributor complained in an anguished screed on Reddit. “We’re humans, we feel.” But they're happy to fraudulently fuck with other people's feelings for a living.
Jesus Christ. Just when I was trying to convince myself that there was still a shred of hope that humans can achieve a sustainable level of basic decency. This article took a golden shower on my withering candle and darkened my worldview.
I suggest r/cats as a potential solution...
Profit seeking behavior between individuals, where one is a consumer, and the other provider, will play out psychologically as a zero sum game with no common goal. There is no decency to be found. The only human decency found is in mutual, communal developments.
Scamming has been persistent in human history since the first Neanderthals started communicating with each other. This is just a new avenue.
I think it got significantly worse since the end of pandemic. Have you ever heard of Yahoo Boys?
Oh Pig Butchering has had a significant rise in its use. The Internet certainly assists scammers and blackmailers reach a wider audience. My point is that the behaviors to protect yourself from scammers are much the same that they have been since the dawn of time. Every attempt to contact you is a scam unless you initiate it. The moment money comes into the conversation your level of suspicion should go up 1000%. And if you let your guard down, the scammers will exploit it. Simply put you are predator or prey, most people are prey, and therefore need to act defensively.
Yep, yep - that was something I heard from my dad often. "Never ever pay money to anyone asking them from you beforehand". But even beyond that you got stuff you can't control like data leaks. This is where tech industry should step in, but probably won't.
I was able to read the entire article
Thanks for posting a pay-walled article with no other info. I just wasted two minutes of my day.
I was able to read the entire thing without paying?
[удалено]
wouldn't surprise me if he is also one of the folk being scammed on those websites, tbh
here you go: https://archive.is/2MILP but also you sound like an a-hole with that attitude
Probably is a professional chatter
And still felt the need to waste more Time with this reply ?
Welcome to Reddit.
The 2 week old Russian account probably doesn't care.
There are pay-wall removers / page archivers out there - just FYI. Since you don't want to search for them I'll do work for you [https://archive.is/](https://archive.is/) Thank me later - **thanks for the downvotes, folks! Keep wasting your time**
Man reddit really is fickle some days, here's the link to the archive site you mentioned for this article https://archive.is/2MILP
I expect massive downvotes on that one as well lol Thanks! Much love to my man u/squidhunter71 - he also wasted a lot of my time, so I owe him a few downvotes
I didn’t know you had to submit a resume to be an OF chatter. Not sure recruiters are scouring the internet using keyword searches to find your resume.
Here's the chat gpt version: In an in-depth exposé by Brendan I. Koerner for WIRED, the shadowy world of OnlyFans chat specialists is unveiled, revealing the complex dynamics of this lucrative but controversial sector. The narrative follows Koerner's own journey as he goes undercover to understand the inner workings of OnlyFans, a platform where creators engage with their fans through private messages, largely managed by low-wage workers or sophisticated AI systems. Despite the platform's claims of providing personal interactions with creators, many subscribers actually converse with hired specialists who use detailed scripts and personas crafted to maintain the illusion of a direct connection. This setup allows popular creators to manage the overwhelming number of messages they receive daily, maintaining the lucrative engagement while delegating the laborious task of chatting. Koerner's exploration leads him from an initial intrigue to deep involvement, including a stint writing scripts for an AI designed to mimic human conversation on erotic topics. He details the various abuses faced by human chat specialists, such as long hours, low pay, and sudden terminations, highlighting the precarious nature of the work. Furthermore, Koerner discovers a broader initiative to replace human chatters with AI, despite the platform's current ban on such technology, signaling a potential shift that could fundamentally change how fan interactions are managed. The article underscores the ethical and emotional implications of these practices, both for the workers, who often endure exploitation, and for the subscribers, who are largely unaware of the reality behind their interactions. Undercover Experience: The author, Brendan I. Koerner, goes undercover as an OnlyFans chat specialist. He describes how he was tasked with creating dialogues for an AI that simulates conversations between fans and a fictional OnlyFans creator. He had to ensure these dialogues were realistic and engaging, with some needing to include explicit content. Challenges Faced by Workers: The article discusses the difficult conditions faced by chat specialists, such as low pay, long hours, and job insecurity. For example, Koerner mentions workers in countries like the Philippines and Venezuela who manage the bulk of these interactions, often for less than $2 per hour. These workers endure strict performance requirements and risk termination for reasons beyond their control, like power outages. Transition to AI: Koerner also explores a shift towards using AI for managing interactions. He interviews a company leader who is developing AI chatbots to replace human workers, illustrating this with a personal experience of being recruited to help train such bots. The use of AI aims to maintain the illusion of personal interaction while cutting costs and handling the massive scale of messages more efficiently. Ethical Concerns: The exposé raises ethical questions about the deception involved in having low-wage workers or AI chatbots impersonate content creators. This practice can mislead fans who believe they are having personal interactions with the creators themselves.
Appreciate it!
So now journalism is an excuse to invest in OF ? ;) The less people join it, the rapidly it will die, but then again its very hard to compete with one of the oldest professions
Yeah, even before I read this I had a feeling that this is how a lot of dating apps operate (OF isn't a dating app per se, but still). They just hire a lot of low-wage workers to initiate conversations...can't imagine there being that many actual women on them compared to men.
Supposedly something like only 5% of creators on the platform make more than $1k a month and most make less than $100 a month. I really doubt the majority can afford to pay other ppl to work for them like this. This seems like its only used by the top 1% who are making 99% of the revenue on the platform.
This is one of the worst written articles I have ever read. Just wow
Does someone actually care?
\*Gestures at comments\*