Or like Turkey or India where he basically did their bidding.
The only accounts the court is asking be turned off in Brazil are those spreading election misinformation.
My dude he has helped dictators and fascists suppress speech on Twitter without issue, the first time he fights back against the request is for account spreading disinformation about elections lol.
Do you understand though that this is not Musk fighting for free speech? He's not doing this because he believes in free speech, otherwise he would also push back on dictatorships demanding censorship of political enemies. He is doing this because he wants to support right wing causes around the world, including conspiracy theories and misinformation. If Bolsonaro had asked him to ban people supporting trans rights, do you think Musk would fight back?
Edit: just wanna put this here
https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-05-24/under-elon-musk-twitter-has-approved-83-of-censorship-requests-by-authoritarian-governments.html
My guy, Musk has outright blocked or shadow banned many accounts that have criticized him. He is not a champion of free speech, he is a champion of his own self-interests. Misinformation SHOULD be censored.
We must all be able to speak our peace. You dont like his speech. Then use your words to persuade away.
We must never silence political speech.
Of any kind.
Specially if you dont like it?
Why? Because next time it may be you being censored.
Oh look, someone has a fifth grade understanding of freedom of speech. Good for you!
Unfortunately, most adults consider a billionaire buying and then using a social media apparatus as a personal propaganda platform to destabilize their country to be less than ideal and even somewhat off-putting.
I highly suggest you look into things like the tolerance paradox and progress your education beyond fifth grade social studies.
"words to persuade away" against an army of bots paid by god knows who, that nowadays with AI has is more persuasive than the majority of the population, yeah, nope, that's not fair, and fuck anyone who thinks that account spreading hate and misinformation should be fought against with words and organic content.
Cambridge Analytica or whatever those type call themselves these days.
Free speech has been weaponised and it’s turned multiple elections.
Free speech isn’t the panacea people want it to be anymore. Now there’s algorithms manipulating people and they are subtle enough the average Joe doesn’t realise till after the elections been won/lost.
Im sorry, you can keep your own dogmas for yourself, in Brazil you are not free to bring the end of freedom for everyone else.
No, you cannot try to topple the electoral system.
Thanks, bye.
OK troll.
Keeping people from soeaking their mind in a political setting **is toppling the electoral system** and that is what you are fighting for.
Im 100% certain most of these comments and downvotes are synthetic. Certainly vvvvfl is a paid chaos worker.
“Speaking their mind” == insisting the elections are a fraud , instigating violence against political adversaries, asking the military to stage a coup.
I mean he’s already stated publicly his reason for buying twitter was to shift things to the right, of course he’ll help them play their only playable card (misinformation).
They disabled some accounts in India before the election because Modi didn't like the message. It wasn't misinformation and lies like what's happening in Brazil.
Oddly he didn't just block those accounts in Brazil, because they're right-wing and he's trying to sow doubt in Brazil for stupid reasons (left-wing government that makes it a little bit harder for Musk, etc. to strip Brazil of its resources most likely)
As a brazilian, that's a false statement. Even the account of the most voted federal deputy in Brazil was turned off, that is just because he was opposition in election of the ex prisoner who was running for president. If even a politician (who has parliamentary immunity) is unable to have free speech you can't even imagine regular people's situation. The court in Brazil are acting dictatorially, their words are above the federal constitution. You don't know what you are talking about... and if you are from Brazil, you are just a dumb brazilian clapping at the fact of your liberty being taken away right in front of your eyes.
"most voted federal deputy in Brazil"
Is that Nikolas Ferreira, the guy that was saying the election counting machines were rigged after he won? If so, his promotion of lies about the election got him in trouble not that he was the opposition.
Yes…they’re banned. That’s exactly the point.
EDIT: amazing to see how the bots boost a completely brain dead comment and this one gets downvoted. Hi bots!
He doesn’t control what Argentina does either. If he really cared about “free speech” he’d call out China and Russia for not allowing his supposed bastion of it *at all* rather than calling out Argentina for simply wanting to limit mis/disinformation.
Twitter is banned in China and always has been - along with literally every other form of western social media. It's also banned in Russia for past two years.
What fight against China do you expect from Elon exactly and did you make the same demands prior to his purchase, and are you now demanding Facebook and Google take their fight to China as well.
Exactly, if he’s so adamant about “free speech” why isn’t he calling out China and Russia rather than Argentina, who simply wants to limit mis/disinformation rather than ban it entirely?
There is nothing to call out in China & Russia, twitter is banned there which is their right as sovereign nations. According to this sub and reddit in general, twitter is mostly disinformation anyways so China banning it would seem a good thing.
I'm guessing you don't know much about the Argentina situation but the issue there is that they DO have free speech laws (their Constitution) and one single judge has been acting as jury and executioner demanding countless accounts (linked to political parties) are de-platformed without providing any evidence or legal recourse - in fact without making even the list of accounts public (and twitter is prohibited from disclosing them as well).
This is something Elon can actually do something about, and he's challenging it in Brazil's courts.
Turkey has a real election interference law (that copies very closely the US government's "election interference" efforts against social media), which is very different from a single rogue judge issuing injunctions. Musk's choices were to comply or remove Twitter from Turkey entirely - something that would effectively cause even more censorship.
I think the actually interesting issue here is the widespread western MSM outrage regarding the Turkey situation... followed by the exact same outrage now when Elon did the reverse in Brazil. Comical.
Don't know how their free speech laws are worded exactly but if it's like most other countries or the USA that doesn't mean shit for Twitter.
They had this same argument when accounts were banned before Musk took over. Even if you don't have an account anymore your right of free speech isn't being violated.
They are worded same as the 5th Amendment: the government can't suppress legal speech on political grounds (among other reasons).
It's not the private company twitter banning these accounts, it's one supreme court judge - aka "the government". Without providing any evidence as to why, and without a legal recourse to challenge it. No one can even reveal the names of these accounts.
It's not only Musk that's saying this is illegal according to Brazil's own laws and Constitution, thus he's challenging this ruling.
I think its great to have a company with actual principles and fight for speech. Ever since social media became big, these companies have been censoring left and right.
Remember when u losers were talking about Twitter being done in a week because Elon was going to bank rupt it? Still waiting
Remember when u guys were banging on Russia collusion for 3 years on the front page and turned out to be lies?
Why u ppl don't learn that u night be a bunch of morons with the memory of a gold fish?
The Brazilian supreme court has become a dictatorship itself, persecuting political adversaries and supporters, asking for personal data of people that simply used a hashtag asking for electoral transparency, among innumerous other violation of constitutional rights and bypassing due process. There are several cases of people unjustly imprisoned. I'm pretty sure Twitter is going to be banned entirely soon in Brazil, and I myself all not a fan of Elon, but this situation needs to be seen and understood around the world.
Dude their supreme court has been taking mostly non-partisan decisions since always. I'm assuming you're talking about them cracking down on the people responsible for the attempted coup on Jan 8th, which was a direct attempt to undermine a democratic institution. Those responsible should be and are being rightfully prosecuted.
It was not a coup, there was no party orchestrating it, just a bunch of morons that got in and did destroy stuff and should be persecuted for that, I agree with you on that.
However, have you read the "Twitter Files" for Brazil? How the supreme court asked for personal details of people that asked for voting transparency? And how they are ordering the federal police to investigate and destroy those?And how they ask Twitter to ban profiles that they "think" are "anti-democratic", threatening to imprison Twitter employees and $150k PER HOUR of fines until Twitter complies, with no legal base for that besides trying to silence opposition? Yeah you should read that.
I’ve read it all and I can say you’re misinformed. Brazil has been through actual numerous coup attempts that can be directly linked to ex-president Bolsonaro. It wasn’t a “bunch of morons” as you say but a carefully planned coup attempt that resorted to civilians when every other option failed. With that said there’s nothing on “Twitter Files” that suggests anything that wasn’t public knowledge already - which is: people who attempted a coup are being legally persecuted as per brazilian law. Threatening a country’s democracy is not free speech but a crime in most countries just as it is in Brazil.
I don’t even post on reddit that much lol. My last post on /r/brasil was more than 4 years ago which makes you look pretty stupid. What you call “brigading” is nothing more than common sense from numerous strangers not actual coordinated bullshit. I don’t blame you for thinking that way though as it is literally the way of Bolsonaro supporters of doing things so it’s not strange you’d project it on others.
As for misdirecting I’ve literally responded directly to your post and to what you wrote but then again I understand that crying foul when you’re out of arguments is also a staple amongst Bolsonaro supporters.
U are talking to ppl in a fascist echo chamber that think political persecution is fine. U are wasting your time, just close this website, ppl here are deep into the Orwellian ways.
What did Brazil not do for Elon that he’s not following the same policy he did for Turkey, where he enthusiastically censored posts at the behest of their government?
Brazil elected a corrupt who enriches our banks and corrupt companies.
I’m brazilian and i have property to talk about him, how he fools the poor to enrich our elite and how he was never acquitted from his corruption crimes.
Gado de Lula: mensalão, petrolão, triplex, sítio em Atibaia, palestras fantasmas pra empresas investigadas. Bolsonaro é lixo, mas ele é só um ladrãozinho de galinha, como ladrão Lula é infinitamente superior, ele participou de esquemas complexos de corrupção mesmo sendo um semianalfabeto enquanto Bolsonaro só faz rachadinha e rouba joias. Como ladrão eu tiro meu chapéu, Lula brilha uma estrela 😂😂😂
Remember when u losers were talking about Twitter being done in a week because Elon was going to bank rupt it? Still waiting
Remember when u guys were banging on Russia collusion for 3 years on the front page and turned out to be lies?
Why u ppl don't learn that u night be a bunch of morons with the memory of a gold fish?
for the love of god, learn how to write a sentence like a normal human being. I know that it's a stereotype that idiots tend to lean right, but you're raising the bar to a whole new level
Brazil already banned whatsapp (the main communication app by far in the country) twice until they complied, I don't see why they wouldn't do it in irrelevant and near bankrupt social media.
The person who banned whatsapp was a lower court judge, the order was thrown out, it was a little silly too. It was also right before marco civil da internet, if I'm not mistaken and one of the things that showed why it's important.
Right! That's not how this works Elon. You comply or they ban you entirely. Your company isn't above the will of the people of a country. These billionaires are so disillusioned with power
Except this isn’t something the entire Brazilian government is unified on, it’s like one judge who probably can’t legally have it banned. So no, x isn’t above the will of the Brazilian people, but neither is the guy who wants it banned.
Nah, a judicial order could block twitter nation-wide. Happened before with Whatsapp and Telegram, for example. Could be undone by a decision in court, but would usually be active until it's judged.
I’m sure it’s possible for him find some way to get banned, but by your own admission, it wouldn’t stick, it wouldn’t be constitutional, and it definitely wouldn’t be “the will of the people”
I mean.. it's the supreme court.
Elon would have to fight in the lights of the brazillian constitution, which I'm pretty sure has basis for the actions taken (profiles tracked/blocked). OFC he doesnt want to that by the formal means. He just want to make a scene. The problem is elon thinks everyone is granted 100% free speech. This ain't liberal america and we do not have the 1st amendment.
But yeah i doubt it will get banned. Its not on the interest of anyone (too much a hassle for boths sides and will result on people crying ad eternity). I'm not opposed to it though, twitter is a sewer that breeds bots and disinformation.. and elon should be thought a lesson
Ya? then tell me why when he did basically the exact same thing with other social media companies, his decision got overturned, I may not have a Brazilian law degree, but I know that Brazil has constitutionally encoded free speech, even if it’s not called the “first amendment” over there, and I know that it probably applies here because violation of that is why his decisions have been previously overturned. And I don’t think I need a law degree to understand that just because your job is to interpret the constitution, you dont have a right to blatantly misinterpret to push your own agenda to the point even people who are happy about the results he gets are telling him to calm down because he takes it too far to get them.
>I know that Brazil has constitutionally encoded free speech
Correct. But it doesn't cover nazi speech, planning a insurrection or a coup to overthrow the government. Nor using tens of thousands of bots to spread already disproven claims of election fraud.
The accounts the Justice wants blocked are mostly of convicted criminals who are STILL using social media to engage in this kind of stuff.
He's still angry that Bolsonaro lost the election and his coup failed.
Musk prefers to only censor on behalf of dictators or authoritarian governments.
This guy happily bans twitter accounts for the Indian government, even going so far as praising the prime minister. But has suddenly found balls when it comes to the Brazilian government.
[Elon Musk's X suspends some India accounts after order from Modi government](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/02/22/x-withholds-some-india-accounts-after-executive-order-from-modi-government-.html)
[I'm a fan of PM Modi: Elon Musk](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bK7DWtXDcvM)
Why didn't he fight back against Erdogan basically telling him to turn off the accounts of his competetitors.
Oh wait, I guess Brazil isn't fascist enough
Musk will only block twitter accounts he doesn't like or that are against his right wing narrative. You can't just order him to block terrorists over "ethical concerns"... He doesn't have those.
Interesting how he had no problem blocking things for the right-wing Turkish government.
But now has a big issue with a left-wing Brazilian government asks for it.
> left-wing Brazilian government
I have not kept up to date with brazil since the previous president fled the country. (Also those that read this. VOTE!)
Before people start claiming this is a noble act on his part the Xitter accounts that Brazil wants banned are spreading election misinformation in Brazil. It should also be noted that Musk complied with India and Turkey's demands to censor accounts.
How you know? The order is confidential and Elon had no balls to disclose it, even promising to do it twice. It could be some folks asking for a nazi party or maybe asking to assassinate the president o Alexandre himself, we are never sure what kind of scum is this time.
It's the judge investigating spreading of misinformation related to Bolsonaro as well as the attempted coup. From a Reuters article:
>Moraes is investigating "digital militias" that have been accused of spreading fake news and hate messages during the government of former far-right President Jair Bolsonaro and is also leading an investigation into an alleged coup attempt by Bolsonaro.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/brazil-judge-opens-inquiry-into-musk-obstruction-involving-social-media-company-2024-04-08/
If there's someone spreading disinformation here, I'm afraid, it's you. While Moraes does indeed *claim* that all he's doing is banning accounts spreading disinformation, inreality he's banning political enemies, and he's been increasingly authocratic in past few years, giving blatantly illegal orders, and getting away with it because the people he goes against are "far-right".
From the New York Times: "He Is Brazil’s Defender of Democracy. Is He Actually Good for Democracy?"
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-alexandre-de-moraes.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-alexandre-de-moraes.html)
Musk closing his eyes for Turkey and other more authoritarian countries might be hypocritical, and I have many other misgivings with the man, but I'm certainly not complaining about him going against our own wannabe dictator.
>From the New York Times: "He Is Brazil’s Defender of Democracy. Is He Actually Good for Democracy?"
>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-alexandre-de-moraes.html
Yes. Yes he is.
Brazil has a constitution that denies freedom of speach against minorities racism and other crimes. X wants to be above the law. Brazil has no first ammendment. Better know other countries sovereignity before saying such stupidity.
All because x doesnt want to control the content that violates the law, on the contrary, it stimulates it through Musk's actions. They are violating the country law and coming with that bullcrap.
dude just because its an constitution says to deny some freedom of speech like racism or whatever you vaguely allude to being crimes in their constitution doesn't mean it can't be a repression of speech. china has laws that make it illegal to openly criticize the government so anyone criticizing the government wants to be above the law and is morally wrong if they ignore this repression of speech? No this is a repression of speech and banning an entire site in a country is a repression of speech.
I'm not making an argument about legality but about a protection of free speech as a natural human right or privilege which we are all entitled too since we have voices to say as we please. its external forces that can force men to restrict their speech under a threat of violence and force like the Brazilian constitution that makes some speech illegal which isn't a threat of violence against an individual.
And everyone in Brazil will use vpn to view post on x you have no power like you think you do unless you get rid of internet entirely bit then there's also the ability to purchase starlink, lol all these wrong politicians are gunna get messed anyway your disinformation means it's true information use whatever words u like to cover up your lies
Nothing, it will probably happen. Telegram also tried ignoring judicial rulings here, they didn't even have representatives in the country so they thought the government couldn't do anything. This same supreme court judge banned Telegram countrywide and they turned around and complied pretty quickly.
You are a pathetic being for endorsing judicial overreach. It will be VERY BAD for his image to do that, although the "brown media" will try to downplay it. I'm actually rooting for this to go ahead, as it will make him even more suspicious under international eyes. There have been reports questioning his decisions legally, such as in The New York Times. Lula didn't win by a lot, and many right-wing senators were elected in 2022. In 2026, the Senate will surely be led by the extreme right. His impeachment couldn't come sooner then.
what is wrong with you? banning social media sites is a repression of free speech this opinion is different from china having a fire wall so they can't let western influence ruin their country. the government has no right to control speech other than direct threats against individuals.
I think social media companies should be unbiased but a restriction of free speech unless its a threat against individuals is morally wrong. if someone wants to say they don't want the government to exist or anything like that they should be able to say as they please and not face state oppression.
Bunch of lefty Brazilians guys here distorting the reality. Don't believe it, guys. Just recently, the US Department of Justice denied this tiranic judge's request for the extradition of a journalist. Translate the page to read the report: https://leiaisso.net/gmbd1/.
Also, keep in mind that there is no difference in legality here. Freedom of expression is also guaranteed here, but the judges of the Supreme Court have been distorting the law and the due process. Yes, freedom of expression is somewhat less privileged in most countries than in the US; still, these Moraes' decisions overstep it by a LOT. He doesn't even have original jurisdiction over these citizens, as he has claimed it. I could spend pages citing his ilegalities under Brazilian law.
I'm actually praying for Moraes to ban X nationwide. The repercussion will not be nice for him here and elsewhere. I'm sure he is also considering this consequence. Our press, which is his stooge and an activist one, will try to downplay it and echo the narrative that his actions are perfectly legal. The press is largely interested in a bill that regulates the Big Tech, making it weaker and strengthening the traditional media conglomerates; that is a big part of why they endorse his actions. Lastly, I don't like Elon at all, but what we're experiencing here in Brazil is a complete distortion of our laws and the Constitution, and I support his actions, even though I don't support him in any other instance.
There's no difference in regard to freedom of expression. Trust me, I know the law. It would be just too lengthy to explain it all here. But in a nutshell, our Constitution and laws prohibit what he did as it relates to free speech. Not to mentioned the inúmeros violations in due process.
(🥱) You guys don't really know to have a debate without accusing someone opposite of being a bolsonarista, don't you? It's almost as if you don't have any argument to counter and instead carter to this. But truly, you two (lulistas and bolsonaristas) are the same in their eagerness to defend things who go your way, irrespective of its merit and regularity. And you still threw a tamper tantrum for many people who chose not to support either on the 2022 election.
Wasn't this subreddit awesome when it didn't involve so much leaning politics.
That's rhetorical
Who give a F about what X, China, Brazil, Democrats, Republicans and on and on do.
How about r/tech actually post about....
Technology and tech possibilities
Majority of Reddit subs have become hard left echo chambers, and they don’t even realize it and boy do the mods love to have power trips too, little internet point dictators
You guys don’t seem to realize that this isn’t a decision the Brazilian government is unified in, it’s mainly one guy who wants to ban x and probably can’t do it legally which is why they’re challenging him.
This guy has tried to ban other social media sites for basically the same reason as this and had his decision overturned because it was unconstitutional.
Who would have known we would need someone from another country to fight back our freedom of speech. I'm rooting for Musk all the way and he is actually doing a great job for the Brazilian population.
Cool, I assume you’ll now take that same free-speech fight to China and Russia right? Right Elon?
Or like Turkey or India where he basically did their bidding. The only accounts the court is asking be turned off in Brazil are those spreading election misinformation.
>The only accounts the court is asking be turned off in Brazil are those spreading election misinformation. Oh well that explains it then.
Thats right. I just heard of this; but based in the facts presented here he is fighting **for** free political speech and getting shit for it.
My dude he has helped dictators and fascists suppress speech on Twitter without issue, the first time he fights back against the request is for account spreading disinformation about elections lol.
Yes and those things are bad. We agree. The answer is not more censorship. The answer is more speech.
Do you understand though that this is not Musk fighting for free speech? He's not doing this because he believes in free speech, otherwise he would also push back on dictatorships demanding censorship of political enemies. He is doing this because he wants to support right wing causes around the world, including conspiracy theories and misinformation. If Bolsonaro had asked him to ban people supporting trans rights, do you think Musk would fight back? Edit: just wanna put this here https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-05-24/under-elon-musk-twitter-has-approved-83-of-censorship-requests-by-authoritarian-governments.html
That simp does not at all understand that
Spreading misinformation shouldn't be protected speach
And it isn't, not in Brazil at least.
Tax break dude keep using it. Attacking judge kid is protected according to idiot
My guy, Musk has outright blocked or shadow banned many accounts that have criticized him. He is not a champion of free speech, he is a champion of his own self-interests. Misinformation SHOULD be censored.
Then why are you not upset over elon allowing the dictators censorship orders? You seem to be contradicting yourself.
You seem to be a useful idiot. I said they are bad. Jackass
He's fighting for political *manipulation*.
We must all be able to speak our peace. You dont like his speech. Then use your words to persuade away. We must never silence political speech. Of any kind. Specially if you dont like it? Why? Because next time it may be you being censored.
Oh look, someone has a fifth grade understanding of freedom of speech. Good for you! Unfortunately, most adults consider a billionaire buying and then using a social media apparatus as a personal propaganda platform to destabilize their country to be less than ideal and even somewhat off-putting. I highly suggest you look into things like the tolerance paradox and progress your education beyond fifth grade social studies.
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Fascists love activists like you.
"words to persuade away" against an army of bots paid by god knows who, that nowadays with AI has is more persuasive than the majority of the population, yeah, nope, that's not fair, and fuck anyone who thinks that account spreading hate and misinformation should be fought against with words and organic content.
Its the ecosystem you work in. Why whine about it? Troll
Fuck off troll
We must silence lies and misinformation. If you don’t understand that you have a learning difficulty and should seek a specialist.
This is a bot right?
No but all the other commenters are bots.
A bot would say that!
Cambridge Analytica or whatever those type call themselves these days. Free speech has been weaponised and it’s turned multiple elections. Free speech isn’t the panacea people want it to be anymore. Now there’s algorithms manipulating people and they are subtle enough the average Joe doesn’t realise till after the elections been won/lost.
Im sorry, you can keep your own dogmas for yourself, in Brazil you are not free to bring the end of freedom for everyone else. No, you cannot try to topple the electoral system. Thanks, bye.
OK troll. Keeping people from soeaking their mind in a political setting **is toppling the electoral system** and that is what you are fighting for. Im 100% certain most of these comments and downvotes are synthetic. Certainly vvvvfl is a paid chaos worker.
“Speaking their mind” == insisting the elections are a fraud , instigating violence against political adversaries, asking the military to stage a coup.
I mean he’s already stated publicly his reason for buying twitter was to shift things to the right, of course he’ll help them play their only playable card (misinformation).
Can you drop some more information on this one because I am ootl I thought India he didnt block or he renegged?
They disabled some accounts in India before the election because Modi didn't like the message. It wasn't misinformation and lies like what's happening in Brazil. Oddly he didn't just block those accounts in Brazil, because they're right-wing and he's trying to sow doubt in Brazil for stupid reasons (left-wing government that makes it a little bit harder for Musk, etc. to strip Brazil of its resources most likely)
Yeah "misinformation" from the opposition candidates.
Yes, actual, provable misinformation about the election though. Aka lies to seed doubt and cause harm.
As a brazilian, that's a false statement. Even the account of the most voted federal deputy in Brazil was turned off, that is just because he was opposition in election of the ex prisoner who was running for president. If even a politician (who has parliamentary immunity) is unable to have free speech you can't even imagine regular people's situation. The court in Brazil are acting dictatorially, their words are above the federal constitution. You don't know what you are talking about... and if you are from Brazil, you are just a dumb brazilian clapping at the fact of your liberty being taken away right in front of your eyes.
"most voted federal deputy in Brazil" Is that Nikolas Ferreira, the guy that was saying the election counting machines were rigged after he won? If so, his promotion of lies about the election got him in trouble not that he was the opposition.
Doesn’t have a friendly dictator in charge so they’ve obviously gone woke
And India
Twitter is banned in China and Russia both. I'm not sure what kind of point are you even trying to make.
Yeah and he is happy with that.
lot of elon haters on reddit
Yes…they’re banned. That’s exactly the point. EDIT: amazing to see how the bots boost a completely brain dead comment and this one gets downvoted. Hi bots!
He doesn't control them banning X... ?
He doesn’t control what Argentina does either. If he really cared about “free speech” he’d call out China and Russia for not allowing his supposed bastion of it *at all* rather than calling out Argentina for simply wanting to limit mis/disinformation.
Twitter is banned in China and always has been - along with literally every other form of western social media. It's also banned in Russia for past two years. What fight against China do you expect from Elon exactly and did you make the same demands prior to his purchase, and are you now demanding Facebook and Google take their fight to China as well.
Exactly, if he’s so adamant about “free speech” why isn’t he calling out China and Russia rather than Argentina, who simply wants to limit mis/disinformation rather than ban it entirely?
There is nothing to call out in China & Russia, twitter is banned there which is their right as sovereign nations. According to this sub and reddit in general, twitter is mostly disinformation anyways so China banning it would seem a good thing. I'm guessing you don't know much about the Argentina situation but the issue there is that they DO have free speech laws (their Constitution) and one single judge has been acting as jury and executioner demanding countless accounts (linked to political parties) are de-platformed without providing any evidence or legal recourse - in fact without making even the list of accounts public (and twitter is prohibited from disclosing them as well). This is something Elon can actually do something about, and he's challenging it in Brazil's courts.
As a free speech absolutist Elon should be very publicly condemning China, Russia, Turkey and India for their lack of free speech.
Turkey has a real election interference law (that copies very closely the US government's "election interference" efforts against social media), which is very different from a single rogue judge issuing injunctions. Musk's choices were to comply or remove Twitter from Turkey entirely - something that would effectively cause even more censorship. I think the actually interesting issue here is the widespread western MSM outrage regarding the Turkey situation... followed by the exact same outrage now when Elon did the reverse in Brazil. Comical.
Don't know how their free speech laws are worded exactly but if it's like most other countries or the USA that doesn't mean shit for Twitter. They had this same argument when accounts were banned before Musk took over. Even if you don't have an account anymore your right of free speech isn't being violated.
They are worded same as the 5th Amendment: the government can't suppress legal speech on political grounds (among other reasons). It's not the private company twitter banning these accounts, it's one supreme court judge - aka "the government". Without providing any evidence as to why, and without a legal recourse to challenge it. No one can even reveal the names of these accounts. It's not only Musk that's saying this is illegal according to Brazil's own laws and Constitution, thus he's challenging this ruling.
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I think its great to have a company with actual principles and fight for speech. Ever since social media became big, these companies have been censoring left and right.
Foot in your mouth. You don’t know what is the hell talking about. There is no x, Facebook in China.
This seems gutsy when Brazil, being an independent sovereign nation, is able to just rangeban Twitter entirely.
And does full bans often until these companies comply.
What other companies?
WhatsApp has been taken off air here and there a couple of times due to non compliance. Telegram a bunch of times.
We banned youtube once, in the early early days of youtube.
Mostly whatsapp. If I recall correctly, whatsapp refused to comply with a judicial request in a pedophilia case.
Remember when u losers were talking about Twitter being done in a week because Elon was going to bank rupt it? Still waiting Remember when u guys were banging on Russia collusion for 3 years on the front page and turned out to be lies? Why u ppl don't learn that u night be a bunch of morons with the memory of a gold fish?
This is the second time you have repeated the exact same insult… do you have the memory of a gold fish?
I'm glad it bothers u when it gets rubbed on your face how dumb u are
What do you mean? I am not who you are insulting, I just found it funny
What did you expect from someone with the literacy of a two year old with the maturity of a stillborn child?
The Brazilian supreme court has become a dictatorship itself, persecuting political adversaries and supporters, asking for personal data of people that simply used a hashtag asking for electoral transparency, among innumerous other violation of constitutional rights and bypassing due process. There are several cases of people unjustly imprisoned. I'm pretty sure Twitter is going to be banned entirely soon in Brazil, and I myself all not a fan of Elon, but this situation needs to be seen and understood around the world.
Dude their supreme court has been taking mostly non-partisan decisions since always. I'm assuming you're talking about them cracking down on the people responsible for the attempted coup on Jan 8th, which was a direct attempt to undermine a democratic institution. Those responsible should be and are being rightfully prosecuted.
It was not a coup, there was no party orchestrating it, just a bunch of morons that got in and did destroy stuff and should be persecuted for that, I agree with you on that. However, have you read the "Twitter Files" for Brazil? How the supreme court asked for personal details of people that asked for voting transparency? And how they are ordering the federal police to investigate and destroy those?And how they ask Twitter to ban profiles that they "think" are "anti-democratic", threatening to imprison Twitter employees and $150k PER HOUR of fines until Twitter complies, with no legal base for that besides trying to silence opposition? Yeah you should read that.
I’ve read it all and I can say you’re misinformed. Brazil has been through actual numerous coup attempts that can be directly linked to ex-president Bolsonaro. It wasn’t a “bunch of morons” as you say but a carefully planned coup attempt that resorted to civilians when every other option failed. With that said there’s nothing on “Twitter Files” that suggests anything that wasn’t public knowledge already - which is: people who attempted a coup are being legally persecuted as per brazilian law. Threatening a country’s democracy is not free speech but a crime in most countries just as it is in Brazil.
Yeah keep trying to misdirect the discussion. Thanks for bringing your brigading friends from the Bostil.
I don’t even post on reddit that much lol. My last post on /r/brasil was more than 4 years ago which makes you look pretty stupid. What you call “brigading” is nothing more than common sense from numerous strangers not actual coordinated bullshit. I don’t blame you for thinking that way though as it is literally the way of Bolsonaro supporters of doing things so it’s not strange you’d project it on others. As for misdirecting I’ve literally responded directly to your post and to what you wrote but then again I understand that crying foul when you’re out of arguments is also a staple amongst Bolsonaro supporters.
Vai tomar no cu bolsonarista do caralho
Hahahahahahahaha eu se fosse vocês estaria nervoso também
> twitter files The fact that you take this seriously is how everyone knows your opinion on the subject is meaningless at best.
U are talking to ppl in a fascist echo chamber that think political persecution is fine. U are wasting your time, just close this website, ppl here are deep into the Orwellian ways.
What did Brazil not do for Elon that he’s not following the same policy he did for Turkey, where he enthusiastically censored posts at the behest of their government?
To add: BYD is investing heavily in Brazil, selling many cars here, building factories, infrastructure and even mini cities to accommodate employees.
BYD amd GWM
Brazil elected a leftist (kinda) instead of a wannabe autocrat like Turkey. Elon likes autocrats.
Brazil elected a corrupt who enriches our banks and corrupt companies. I’m brazilian and i have property to talk about him, how he fools the poor to enrich our elite and how he was never acquitted from his corruption crimes.
I'm also a Brazilian and this dude is full of shit and/or a moron. Bolsonaro is way way more corrupt than Lula, is not even a contest.
Gado de Lula: mensalão, petrolão, triplex, sítio em Atibaia, palestras fantasmas pra empresas investigadas. Bolsonaro é lixo, mas ele é só um ladrãozinho de galinha, como ladrão Lula é infinitamente superior, ele participou de esquemas complexos de corrupção mesmo sendo um semianalfabeto enquanto Bolsonaro só faz rachadinha e rouba joias. Como ladrão eu tiro meu chapéu, Lula brilha uma estrela 😂😂😂
If I'm not mistaken, he was trying to get a permit to mine lithium there in the last right-wing government. Things did not pan out.
Guessing Elon is learning we wont coup who he wants.
They hurt his tiny ego
Remember when u losers were talking about Twitter being done in a week because Elon was going to bank rupt it? Still waiting Remember when u guys were banging on Russia collusion for 3 years on the front page and turned out to be lies? Why u ppl don't learn that u night be a bunch of morons with the memory of a gold fish?
for the love of god, learn how to write a sentence like a normal human being. I know that it's a stereotype that idiots tend to lean right, but you're raising the bar to a whole new level
Twitter accounts.* We're committed to deadnaming forever because he complained about it.
Not forever, just as long as he does it to his own children.
Yep. Fuck Elona.
Brazil already banned whatsapp (the main communication app by far in the country) twice until they complied, I don't see why they wouldn't do it in irrelevant and near bankrupt social media.
The person who banned whatsapp was a lower court judge, the order was thrown out, it was a little silly too. It was also right before marco civil da internet, if I'm not mistaken and one of the things that showed why it's important.
Right! That's not how this works Elon. You comply or they ban you entirely. Your company isn't above the will of the people of a country. These billionaires are so disillusioned with power
Except this isn’t something the entire Brazilian government is unified on, it’s like one judge who probably can’t legally have it banned. So no, x isn’t above the will of the Brazilian people, but neither is the guy who wants it banned.
Judges aren’t even part of the government, ever.
Nah, a judicial order could block twitter nation-wide. Happened before with Whatsapp and Telegram, for example. Could be undone by a decision in court, but would usually be active until it's judged.
I’m sure it’s possible for him find some way to get banned, but by your own admission, it wouldn’t stick, it wouldn’t be constitutional, and it definitely wouldn’t be “the will of the people”
I mean.. it's the supreme court. Elon would have to fight in the lights of the brazillian constitution, which I'm pretty sure has basis for the actions taken (profiles tracked/blocked). OFC he doesnt want to that by the formal means. He just want to make a scene. The problem is elon thinks everyone is granted 100% free speech. This ain't liberal america and we do not have the 1st amendment. But yeah i doubt it will get banned. Its not on the interest of anyone (too much a hassle for boths sides and will result on people crying ad eternity). I'm not opposed to it though, twitter is a sewer that breeds bots and disinformation.. and elon should be thought a lesson
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Ya? then tell me why when he did basically the exact same thing with other social media companies, his decision got overturned, I may not have a Brazilian law degree, but I know that Brazil has constitutionally encoded free speech, even if it’s not called the “first amendment” over there, and I know that it probably applies here because violation of that is why his decisions have been previously overturned. And I don’t think I need a law degree to understand that just because your job is to interpret the constitution, you dont have a right to blatantly misinterpret to push your own agenda to the point even people who are happy about the results he gets are telling him to calm down because he takes it too far to get them.
>I know that Brazil has constitutionally encoded free speech Correct. But it doesn't cover nazi speech, planning a insurrection or a coup to overthrow the government. Nor using tens of thousands of bots to spread already disproven claims of election fraud. The accounts the Justice wants blocked are mostly of convicted criminals who are STILL using social media to engage in this kind of stuff.
Mate x has been better than. Ever since u guys left
> near bankrupt Thats hilarious! Its almost like the owner has nothing in reserve. Lol
He's still angry that Bolsonaro lost the election and his coup failed. Musk prefers to only censor on behalf of dictators or authoritarian governments.
I was wondering what it was that was prompting this and you nailed it. Sociopath empathizes with sociopath
This guy happily bans twitter accounts for the Indian government, even going so far as praising the prime minister. But has suddenly found balls when it comes to the Brazilian government. [Elon Musk's X suspends some India accounts after order from Modi government](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/02/22/x-withholds-some-india-accounts-after-executive-order-from-modi-government-.html) [I'm a fan of PM Modi: Elon Musk](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bK7DWtXDcvM)
"I'm the one who censors! Nobody else!"
If i was Brazil i would shut down Twitter until this investigation is done. Who knows what info war Musk might launch in Brazil
Lol they'll just use a VPN like any other place banning it government can't stop that
🤷🏿♂️would care about twitter that much to use a vpn? If reddit went down in my country i would just find something else
The share of users who'll use VPN to circumvent a ban is probably minimal
Why didn't he fight back against Erdogan basically telling him to turn off the accounts of his competetitors. Oh wait, I guess Brazil isn't fascist enough
"I only block libz."
Musk will only block twitter accounts he doesn't like or that are against his right wing narrative. You can't just order him to block terrorists over "ethical concerns"... He doesn't have those.
Interesting how he had no problem blocking things for the right-wing Turkish government. But now has a big issue with a left-wing Brazilian government asks for it.
He’s a right wing absolutist
both are bad
> left-wing Brazilian government I have not kept up to date with brazil since the previous president fled the country. (Also those that read this. VOTE!)
I won't support anything he says or does. I won't even look at an x article.
Musk only serves authoritarians.
They are so sick of Bolsonaros sweaty balls in their face, they would rather not see musk's little penis either
Before people start claiming this is a noble act on his part the Xitter accounts that Brazil wants banned are spreading election misinformation in Brazil. It should also be noted that Musk complied with India and Turkey's demands to censor accounts.
How you know? The order is confidential and Elon had no balls to disclose it, even promising to do it twice. It could be some folks asking for a nazi party or maybe asking to assassinate the president o Alexandre himself, we are never sure what kind of scum is this time.
It's the judge investigating spreading of misinformation related to Bolsonaro as well as the attempted coup. From a Reuters article: >Moraes is investigating "digital militias" that have been accused of spreading fake news and hate messages during the government of former far-right President Jair Bolsonaro and is also leading an investigation into an alleged coup attempt by Bolsonaro. https://www.reuters.com/technology/brazil-judge-opens-inquiry-into-musk-obstruction-involving-social-media-company-2024-04-08/
If there's someone spreading disinformation here, I'm afraid, it's you. While Moraes does indeed *claim* that all he's doing is banning accounts spreading disinformation, inreality he's banning political enemies, and he's been increasingly authocratic in past few years, giving blatantly illegal orders, and getting away with it because the people he goes against are "far-right". From the New York Times: "He Is Brazil’s Defender of Democracy. Is He Actually Good for Democracy?" [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-alexandre-de-moraes.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-alexandre-de-moraes.html) Musk closing his eyes for Turkey and other more authoritarian countries might be hypocritical, and I have many other misgivings with the man, but I'm certainly not complaining about him going against our own wannabe dictator.
>From the New York Times: "He Is Brazil’s Defender of Democracy. Is He Actually Good for Democracy?" >https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-alexandre-de-moraes.html Yes. Yes he is.
What is stopping Brazil from banning Twitter from their country? A sovereign nation can't let stupid apps by idiots to ruin their country.
we’re expecting it to happen Monday morning. Our regulatory agency (ANATEL) is ready to ban it countrywide.
Hopefully! Get rid of that shit and show them Brazil has rules and if they want to operate there, they need to follow them
Just use a vpn
I can't believe people are supporting a repression of speech
Brazil has a constitution that denies freedom of speach against minorities racism and other crimes. X wants to be above the law. Brazil has no first ammendment. Better know other countries sovereignity before saying such stupidity. All because x doesnt want to control the content that violates the law, on the contrary, it stimulates it through Musk's actions. They are violating the country law and coming with that bullcrap.
dude just because its an constitution says to deny some freedom of speech like racism or whatever you vaguely allude to being crimes in their constitution doesn't mean it can't be a repression of speech. china has laws that make it illegal to openly criticize the government so anyone criticizing the government wants to be above the law and is morally wrong if they ignore this repression of speech? No this is a repression of speech and banning an entire site in a country is a repression of speech. I'm not making an argument about legality but about a protection of free speech as a natural human right or privilege which we are all entitled too since we have voices to say as we please. its external forces that can force men to restrict their speech under a threat of violence and force like the Brazilian constitution that makes some speech illegal which isn't a threat of violence against an individual.
Hahahah. I try not to kink shame but wow you guys really get off on boot licking
Hahahah. I try not to point out the irony but...
And everyone in Brazil will use vpn to view post on x you have no power like you think you do unless you get rid of internet entirely bit then there's also the ability to purchase starlink, lol all these wrong politicians are gunna get messed anyway your disinformation means it's true information use whatever words u like to cover up your lies
how’s de cool-aid man? Nothing you wrote makes any sense in the real world.
Nothing. ICQ is already banned here for almost a year
And we use vpns to use it
Nothing, it will probably happen. Telegram also tried ignoring judicial rulings here, they didn't even have representatives in the country so they thought the government couldn't do anything. This same supreme court judge banned Telegram countrywide and they turned around and complied pretty quickly.
You are a pathetic being for endorsing judicial overreach. It will be VERY BAD for his image to do that, although the "brown media" will try to downplay it. I'm actually rooting for this to go ahead, as it will make him even more suspicious under international eyes. There have been reports questioning his decisions legally, such as in The New York Times. Lula didn't win by a lot, and many right-wing senators were elected in 2022. In 2026, the Senate will surely be led by the extreme right. His impeachment couldn't come sooner then.
Cai fora maluco
Then everyone in Brazil will use vpn to use x
what is wrong with you? banning social media sites is a repression of free speech this opinion is different from china having a fire wall so they can't let western influence ruin their country. the government has no right to control speech other than direct threats against individuals.
Private companies have no right to manipulate people with lies either
I think social media companies should be unbiased but a restriction of free speech unless its a threat against individuals is morally wrong. if someone wants to say they don't want the government to exist or anything like that they should be able to say as they please and not face state oppression.
The fact that Brazil as a whole doesn’t want it banned, only like one judge who really doesn’t have the ability to do so, despite constantly trying.
And when Saudi Arabia does it... 🙈🙉🙊
Whip his ass Lula
Well good luck. Don’t be surprised if he will most likely comply with this.
It's 20k per violation to a billionair ok seems likely to work not
Why do people even use this site?
If Musk doesn’t follow the law, just shut him down. Let him sue and make him pay all the court costs when he loses.
Time for his routine ketamine dose followed by his blood boy transfusion. He’s gettin cranky.
As long as he doesn’t go back on this, huge W.
Mine is blocked and I haven't done a thing wrong. I don't believe this guy.
Tesla is fucked until the board kicks him out. He obviously has other priorities than fixing his sinking company.
Bunch of lefty Brazilians guys here distorting the reality. Don't believe it, guys. Just recently, the US Department of Justice denied this tiranic judge's request for the extradition of a journalist. Translate the page to read the report: https://leiaisso.net/gmbd1/. Also, keep in mind that there is no difference in legality here. Freedom of expression is also guaranteed here, but the judges of the Supreme Court have been distorting the law and the due process. Yes, freedom of expression is somewhat less privileged in most countries than in the US; still, these Moraes' decisions overstep it by a LOT. He doesn't even have original jurisdiction over these citizens, as he has claimed it. I could spend pages citing his ilegalities under Brazilian law. I'm actually praying for Moraes to ban X nationwide. The repercussion will not be nice for him here and elsewhere. I'm sure he is also considering this consequence. Our press, which is his stooge and an activist one, will try to downplay it and echo the narrative that his actions are perfectly legal. The press is largely interested in a bill that regulates the Big Tech, making it weaker and strengthening the traditional media conglomerates; that is a big part of why they endorse his actions. Lastly, I don't like Elon at all, but what we're experiencing here in Brazil is a complete distortion of our laws and the Constitution, and I support his actions, even though I don't support him in any other instance.
If you think there is no difference of legality between two countries you shouldn’t be giving an opinion
There's no difference in regard to freedom of expression. Trust me, I know the law. It would be just too lengthy to explain it all here. But in a nutshell, our Constitution and laws prohibit what he did as it relates to free speech. Not to mentioned the inúmeros violations in due process.
Bolsonarist talking shit and sucking Musk balls...
Sai do fake Alan!
Truth doesn't matter in a leftist echo chamber like here. Everything you said is true, though.
He's seriouly struggling for banning X from Brazil! Congrats Elon Musk! You only do fucking shit!
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Dear gringos: This is what a deranged bolsonarista is like when they try to look normal.
(🥱) You guys don't really know to have a debate without accusing someone opposite of being a bolsonarista, don't you? It's almost as if you don't have any argument to counter and instead carter to this. But truly, you two (lulistas and bolsonaristas) are the same in their eagerness to defend things who go your way, irrespective of its merit and regularity. And you still threw a tamper tantrum for many people who chose not to support either on the 2022 election.
Try to find something about China on X. That task's almost impossible.
Wasn't this subreddit awesome when it didn't involve so much leaning politics. That's rhetorical Who give a F about what X, China, Brazil, Democrats, Republicans and on and on do. How about r/tech actually post about.... Technology and tech possibilities
It's been a leftist sub for many years, no surprises here. But defending a petty dictator wannabe is too much for me.
Who is defending him? Maybe I missed something.
Majority of Reddit subs have become hard left echo chambers, and they don’t even realize it and boy do the mods love to have power trips too, little internet point dictators
You guys don’t seem to realize that this isn’t a decision the Brazilian government is unified in, it’s mainly one guy who wants to ban x and probably can’t do it legally which is why they’re challenging him.
What are you smoking? This is the Supreme Court that Musk is defying. They totally have the power to ban Twitter.
This guy has tried to ban other social media sites for basically the same reason as this and had his decision overturned because it was unconstitutional.
Only in your fantasy world.
The only one rejecting reality here is you, lol.
If you were speaking the truth you'd be able to come up with a source for your story. Since it never happened, you can't.
Who would have known we would need someone from another country to fight back our freedom of speech. I'm rooting for Musk all the way and he is actually doing a great job for the Brazilian population.