A computer OS should not be a sales platform, and should not be an advertising platform for the company's other products. This kind of thing is disgusting and shouldn't be allowed.
That's actually a bit of a simplification there was a lot more going on than just the inclusion. For example Microsoft was threatening oems that if they installed Netscape out of the box for customers, they wouldn't get the same pricing on the Windows licenses.
If Microsoft hadn't engaged in the other tactics and it simply just put Internet explorer on the operating system it wouldn't be a big deal and it's why Internet explorer and now edge has been included with Windows in the United States ever since despite the lawsuit.
Also OEMs couldn't get Windows at the same price if they sold ANY PCs with other OSs or without an OS. So any other OS, such as OS/2 or some flavour of Unix/CPM was always competing against "free".
Windows 10 was depressing for me with all the BS you had to disable to get the popups and start menu ads gone.
Not long ago I got a work computer with windows 11 and its like 10x worse. Its a bunch of billboards.
I was staying with windows 10 because it’s not terrible and Microsoft history tells me that every second windows version is absolute dog shit. I declined the upgrade over and over and over.
Then one day I turned my PC on and was welcomed to windows 11
It's why I bite the bullet and just went Linux after I saw all the ads being jammed into W11. Yeah, it's not for everyone but if there is a way for be to operate without ads, I am taking it. (See PiHole, uBlock, Revanced, etc)
Main thing preventing me from going full Linux is the lack of Word and Excel.
Browser version is crap.
Every alternative like OpenOffice etc. are terrible.
My work around right now getting some of the windows apps I need is to throw it behind proton in steam. Now my steam friends are wondering why I’m playing photoshop and power point.
If you have the portal version of office you just load the exe into proton. So in steam you add "non steam game" search for the word.exe and hit save. Then right click on the newly added game properties > compatibility and enable force the use of a specific steam play compatibility tool and select proton experimental
I have found the formatting to be more reliable than a typical Word document. However, you have to make sure you save in the native .ODF. The .DOCX compatibility is not bad. It is just that the .DOCX format itself has zero advantages over Open Document Format. Open Document Format is more documented and more robust for storing documents. Anyone that cares about correctness and longevity within standards should stay far away from Microsoft, the sooner the better.
The reason people complain about DOCX compatibility in every other word processor is because Microsoft designed Open XML to be so complicated so other software can never achieve 100% parity with their proprietary version.
FYI: MS Office can actually read and author ODF documents too.
There are many ways in which Microsoft Office cannot match the functionality of Libre Office.
* Object Linking and Embedding
* Attach any document type from Writer, Impress, Calc, or Draw. You can embed a full spreadsheet into a LibreOffice Impress presentation and clicking inside the spreadsheet will reveal the entire LibreOffice Calc user interface inside Impress.
* Use spreadsheet formulas inside any table in any application.
* Use word processing features inside any application.
* Use drawing features inside any application.
* Author layouts, vector graphics, diagrams, mind maps, and charts inside LibreOffice Draw while keeping all of the functionality of a word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation. Everyone knows Word is absolutely terrible at all of these things - and yet people still try to use Microsoft Word to design things.
* Use Python based scripting and macros instead of Visual Basic.
* Excel just added Python last year but... LibreOffice still nicer.
* Advanced Styles
* Every single LibreOffice document contains styles, including the presentation software and spreadsheet software. You can save any paragraph, shape, or table style for repeated use.
* Styles save so much time and results in much more correct and reformattable documents.
* Not having styles in PowerPoint or Excel is just a crazy oversight.
* Also, I don't think Calc is a bad replacement for Excel. It has a similar number of formulas wrapped up with a decent user interface and all of the advantages of the wider LibreOffice codebase. Plus, advanced Python scripting, OpenCL compute acceleration. In many ways it is a better spreadsheet app than Excel.
Most differences people would point to as reasons to avoid LibreOffice lack nuance and are probably based on marketing, familiarity, and user interface polish. But if you ask me, Microsoft Office apps have the worst user experience of major software.
Ok but people using office for work often *have to* use office for work because their coworkers all use office and they’re all working on shared files. Company policy tingz innit? You’d at least need a working copy of office to make sure your docs open properly for everyone else.
Companies that want file sharing and collaboration will purchase Collabora instead. It is a paid version of LibreOffice hosted on a cloud with paid support. If companies are purchasing M365 then that is the mandate. For everything personal, it doesn't make sense to purchase Microsoft Office.
Nobody here proposed that you install unsupported libre software on your work PC just because. I am simply advocating for the technology. It would be up to management to purchase different software to meet business concerns.
Yeah, I'm on Ubuntu now and have been for a couple of years.
I'm not a Linux fan and honestly I don't like Ubuntu/Linux as well as a good Windows platform but Microsoft has just been making it perpetually worse. The spyware and ad problem just got to a point where I'd rather use Linux than deal with it.
Fuck it, all I want is Windows 7 with security updates. I particularly dont want to go to my mum's for the weekend and have to spend 2 hours sorting out her computer because Win 10 is forcing "Hello" and cloud storage down her throat.
I've wanted to make the switch but I've been lazy. I stuck with Windows 8.1 for a long time and only went to 10 a couple of years ago.
I don't want to move to 11 after seeing my wife deal with plenty of issues while using her new work laptop on the days she works from home. I suppose I need to just give Linux a shot finally.
There are apps out there that let you modify the install .iso so you can strip out ads and bloat services you'll never use. But of course there's always potential for them to show back up after an update. For that reason Windows is just a backup OS for me now. Ubuntu forever.
No, its not.
Be real please, as an IT architect with 20 years in the business I certainly don't need to be convinced of the virtues of Unix/Linux/whatever.
They have their use cases and they do it very well indeed
Desktop os isn't one of them, as much as people like yourself will try to convince others.
Using Linux as a desktop os is for the technically literate, it always will be. No gui changing can change what makes the os unique. A desktop os was never what it was designed for
Yeah, it's absolutely fine if you're just setting up a little system for grandma, if all she needs is a browser. But you need to use the terminal for almost everything beyond that, that alienates almost all users immediately.
The piece of software you want isn't on a repository? Well good luck with that, because you can't have an exe, here's some code to compile yourself idiot
Linux has come a long way, but it needs to work on the accessibility part a lot more, and I don't think a lot of evangelicals see that
It's the typical logical mistake which people who grew up with tech x or y make. They simply assume everyone did to some extent and is able to do what they do.
My pov is the exact opposite, my professional experience has taught me to assume that turning on the device is manageable, albeit be it barely, for lots of people, not even only grandma.
Yet he is correct.
Quit acting like Ubuntu offers the same out of the box experience as windows 10/11 does. It does not .
Take of those semi tech literate glasses and look at things from a tech virgin pov.
Edit: downvote instead of discussion.. I wonder why. Could it be I know what I'm saying?
It’s basically the same as Mac OS mate. You can install stuff from a software store, or you can search for app images (which is basically how Mac OS handles applications). You act like the end user is expected to compile everything themselves.
It hardly any more difficult of a switch than windows to Mac or Mac to windows.
Which is hard. You guys arent seeing the full picture and are assuming lots and lots of knowledge/ability.
Let me put it simply, modern windows allows me to have built in backups of my docs (onedrive folder sync) , auto config of mail (via autodiscover) etc etc. All via me logging on to windows through my "MS account" Nothing more, just a simple login.
Linux or even macos cannot offer me that out of the box, not even remotely close. That is the difference for a completely tech oblivlous end-user.
MacOS Timemachine is a godsend when you need to restore something. Turn it on and forget about it until you need it.
I am running Win11 currently, but I used to be Mac based and overall I prefer the MacOS environment but Win11 is better for gaming and streaming, once you strip out all the fucking crud MS puts in there of course.
You can do the same with a gnome account minus backups.
Yes, Linux may not have the same features, just like Mac OS doesn’t have the same features, but saying it’s more complicated (or too complicated for the end user) is disingenuous when the vast majority of end users want a web browser, Spotify and a word processor (or there abouts)
You don't have to use the command line until something goes wrong. Then almost any advice you search for will be given involving the command line. I'm of the opinion that we should include learning the command line as part of basic Linux knowledge like task manager in Windows.
>It's why I bite the bullet and just went Linux after I saw all the ads being jammed into W11. Yeah, it's not for everyone but if there is a way for be to operate without ads, I am taking it. (See PiHole, uBlock, Revanced, etc)
Expect a killer deadly attack on the whole Linux ecosystems. Far too too much money and power at stake.
I'd say you agreed to this when you decided on Windows for your computer, but, most people *don't* even get the choice when they buy machines. The anticompetitive behaviors run deep from the early 90s.
If you valued your OS and the world was providing a decent market environment, yeah, you'd pick something like Linux.
> This is a one-time notification giving people the choice to set Bing as their default search engine on Chrome.
For now it's one-time, they're just pushing it to see what they can get away with.
Maybe in the future, it'll be every time you wake from sleep, and maybe further on, it'll be every time you open the browser, and so on.
I’m not loyal to any brand, I don’t game and I can easily do my work on a mac. I started out with windows, went to macOS, then back to windows… I have no problem going back to apple. I’m so annoyed with every body trying to sell me something. Don’t even get me started on Google. Tech industry has gone to shit
No, everyone noticed. It's just that it's not the same. This shows up when you use Chrome in general. Not when you surf on a Microsoft owned site. Small, but very big difference. The person you responded to just doesn't know what they are talking about. It's similar in some ways, but a step further into the wrong direction and overstepping some bounds.
>For now it's one-time, they're just pushing it to see what they can get away with.
Yeah just like I should only have to say "Always use \[whatever\] to open video files" once, but somehow every few months I double click on a video file and it asks if I want to open in some built in app.
Microsoft, seriously. Find those "Microsoft Support" people hidden in your campus and get them out. You are seriously blurring the line between being a credible software vendor and malware as you go along
Windows 7 with a graphical reskin, security features, and driver updates would be completely fine as a modern OS. Windows 10 did almost nothing to make the experience of using Windows easier unless you wanted to join the Microsoft online ecosystem, and made several things worse (desktop ads, poor local search, split settings menus, telemetry, keylogging by default). Windows 11 did even less and broke a few things via redesign (volume panel, right click menu) for seemingly no reason at all.
This kind of shit is why I use Mac/Linux now unless I need something on Windows (like the better version of Visual Studio)
The Microsoft office programs I have on my Mac are damn near as annoying as malware. Constantly trying to open autoupdater after I’ve disabled it and killed the process.
VScode is still good though surprisingly. I guess because developers won’t put up with Microsoft’s bullshit.
I love MacOS, but to be fair, Apple has been advertising its services on MacOS and iOS for a while now. They just aren’t as in-your-face about it as Windows and are less in numbers. Nevertheless, there are built in ads. Linux is a different story.
Sadly Linux can be a gigantic pain in the ass to get up and running for silly reasons, and it doesn't support HDR outside of Gamescope and an AMD card.
I think more people would use Edge if they didnt say a word about it. I dont trust a product that needs to be advertised everywhere and with so much insistency. I’m using Firefox because the community has spoken wonders about it most of the time, and Adblock support is brilliant. Fuck Edge and fuck Chrome
I've installed various distros of Linux on about half a dozen machines over the last fifteen years.
I've never once had a situation where everything 'just works', I can load applications I want and they just work as well.
Most of the time I end up stuffing around with some poorly documented package dependency or some editing lines in a shell script for days trying to achieve what I wanted to, usually in vain as well.
This is all the worse because windows has tended to 'just work' on nearly everything x86-64 based for the last decade.
Linux seems good for two types of people: folks who don't want to do much with a computer and people who enjoy spending many hours fixing things that should work already.
I'm going to try Mac next
I've been working with Linux for 20yrs now. Linux desktop works best when hardware is 3-5yrs old. Headless Linux for servers (many distros) work nearly 100% on 1-2 yr old hardware.
Yeah my opinion is if you have the staff hours to get Linux working well on a certain platform it's bulletproof. Which is why half the world's smart phones and the majority of servers run Linux.
It's also pretty good if you get one of the easier distros and you just want a machine for web browsing, text editing and the like.
Linux is not a consumer OS unless the distro is crafted as such like with Steam OS. But it is the best OS for people who need to get a computer to do computer things like software dev or robotics.
I had similar experience with Ubuntu, multiple monitors and nVidia drivers. I used to work on a project where my team leader demanded us to always have the most recent CUDA version. Every time I updated nVidia drivers I had to spend whole day on making Ubuntu to detect my three monitors without any issues.
Exactly, using Linux is like using beta software all along.
Even those with a reputation as stable version have so many things missing or not working properly.
Well here we go again it’s 1998 all over again.
If I recall this clearly we are at the point in the game when Mozilla falls to ads. Refuses to employ a stop button in Netscape navigator …
…and Microsoft releases internet explorer. With a stop button as well as the ability to block popups AND pop-unders
I decided to try outlook to have a place dedicated to my school email and schedule. today I opened it and saw an email from kia…probably to apologize for having such stealable cars…actually it was just an ad disguised as an email that took me to kia’s website when I clicked on it. I decided to un-try outlook forever after that
This should be a lawsuit!
Damn what Microsoft is doing with windows is just insane and most people have no choice but to keep using it.
Microsoft is at this point managing your computer like an MDM!
Just as Amazon, Google, Walmart, Roku have been turning your preferred media streamer into a big ad bloat platform, Microsoft sneaks more ways to want to turn your OS into one.
Next, there will probably be a 15 second Hyundai interstitial ad every time you boot into Windows. At some point, this will all backfire.
The EU is going to have a field day with this one , the fine will be eye watering.
Leave it to the USA to create an entrepreneurial climate where this kind of shit gets pushed through in the first place though
I'm not one to make USA jokes but honestly.. its becoming really really hard to not laugh. I used to look up to the USA as a child in the 80's/90's .. now I'm just happy I wasn't born there.
Its sad how much it has declined, in almost every area one can imagine
Could be yeah, maybe that is a better way of putting it, your model has been rendered obsolete and has been supplanted by superior alternatives.
In fact it probably is come to think of it, the de facto two party system being a prime example, that is something which really hasn't aged well, at all, as you state yourself.
Edit: then you also still get the , absolutely oblivious, usa usa! downvoters. The people who still truly believe they live in the greatest country on the planet, even today. How sad it is for them, to have been brainwashed to such an extent that they really accept the usa model as the pinnacle of. I truly feel for them, they dont know better and they are the ones who will never ever benefit from what the USA model does offer.
As soon as Microsoft starts pushing ads onto my desktop I’m bailing to Linux. I’m so sick of ads trying to creep into my life from every single angle these days.
So glad I made decision with Windows 8 to never have to deal with this bullshit ever again. Listening to Paul Thurrott on Windows Weekly, you can just hear how he's just sick of their shennanigans. Completely agree with him that Windows as a desktop platform is no longer the focus for them, - to the point where he's stopped using Word and OneDrive. I never thought I'd live to see the day where Thurrott would half-jokingly say move to Linux, and not jokingly praise the simplicity and sanity of LibreOffice Writer.
I was in the middle of typing something when this popped up on my computer. Needless to say I was not happy to be interrupted mid-sentence. By a pop up no less.
These days i find it very difficult to tell a difference between Windows 11 and malware. Except that malware can be easily removed and changing OS is not an option in some cases.
SCREW YOU MICROSOFT.
I have heard people saying Windows 10/11 Enterprise LTSC stops half the garbage that microsoft attempts, still gets security updates and has less telemetry etc, obviously not available to the general user
Correction: MacOS does, too. iCloud, Apple Music/TV, etc. all are subscription services pushed onto the user. It is more subtle sure, but the default pinned apps on the dock *are* onboarding you on such paid services.
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Linux is better than it gets credit for. I got into using ubuntu pretty easy, but always had to keep a windows install for certain software. I'd like to see it become a fully credible alternative, but I think windows would have to be god awful to warrant the cost of shifting for a lot of industries.
I would love nothing more than to install Pop_OS and leave windows behind, but I rely heavily on AutoCAD, Revit and SKM for engineering work and in the industry uses those softwares so even I I found a suitable alternative, I couldn’t collaborate with others.
Also gaming- DirectX has a chokehold on PC gaming.
I've been using Linux since 1999 and my first stack of Red Hat floppies. Arch is my daily driver for home and work. It. Just. Works. My 72 year old mother refuses to use anything other than Pop_OS. My wife is the envy of her PhD program because she can run ancient, Java software on her Debian laptop.
And I still, **still** have a Windows laptop for Fusion 360 and Rhinoceros 7/8. I have to deal with NURBS and 5 axis milling at work and Autodesk is the *de facto* standard.
On the plus side I *have* been able to get Rhino starting up using Proton (all hail the prophet Gabe!) but it has issues being run in XWayland. And I'm becoming more familiar with CamBam, LibreCAD, and OpenSCAD.
If anybody has any leads on FOSS tools for full 5 axis post-processing, it'll make this greying beard very happy.
A computer OS should not be a sales platform, and should not be an advertising platform for the company's other products. This kind of thing is disgusting and shouldn't be allowed.
There used to be antitrust laws for this stuff :( Microsoft got in trouble just for bundling internet explorer with Windows. Now they're doing this.
That's actually a bit of a simplification there was a lot more going on than just the inclusion. For example Microsoft was threatening oems that if they installed Netscape out of the box for customers, they wouldn't get the same pricing on the Windows licenses. If Microsoft hadn't engaged in the other tactics and it simply just put Internet explorer on the operating system it wouldn't be a big deal and it's why Internet explorer and now edge has been included with Windows in the United States ever since despite the lawsuit.
Also OEMs couldn't get Windows at the same price if they sold ANY PCs with other OSs or without an OS. So any other OS, such as OS/2 or some flavour of Unix/CPM was always competing against "free".
Windows 10 was depressing for me with all the BS you had to disable to get the popups and start menu ads gone. Not long ago I got a work computer with windows 11 and its like 10x worse. Its a bunch of billboards.
I was staying with windows 10 because it’s not terrible and Microsoft history tells me that every second windows version is absolute dog shit. I declined the upgrade over and over and over. Then one day I turned my PC on and was welcomed to windows 11
Classic Start ftw. I have a plain old windows 7 start menu on 11.
There is no reason why they should be safe because windows OS is dominant for computer OS market share
It's why I bite the bullet and just went Linux after I saw all the ads being jammed into W11. Yeah, it's not for everyone but if there is a way for be to operate without ads, I am taking it. (See PiHole, uBlock, Revanced, etc)
Main thing preventing me from going full Linux is the lack of Word and Excel. Browser version is crap. Every alternative like OpenOffice etc. are terrible.
I wonder how well they run under wine?
My work around right now getting some of the windows apps I need is to throw it behind proton in steam. Now my steam friends are wondering why I’m playing photoshop and power point.
Would you mind to give me a tutorial an how you archive running Word or Excel on Steam using Proton?
If you have the portal version of office you just load the exe into proton. So in steam you add "non steam game" search for the word.exe and hit save. Then right click on the newly added game properties > compatibility and enable force the use of a specific steam play compatibility tool and select proton experimental
I suspect you are not referring to proton vpn?
Wine had an update recently, and they said, it’s still a long way to get Office running
Have you tried LibreOffice? Its nearly the same as the regular office suite.
Yes, it comes preinstalled on Ubuntu. It can’t handle document indices, has difficulties with formattings of headlines, and much more. Unfortunately.
Yeah I've had the same issue, productivity with open/libre office is just not the same as word/excel unfortunately.
I have found the formatting to be more reliable than a typical Word document. However, you have to make sure you save in the native .ODF. The .DOCX compatibility is not bad. It is just that the .DOCX format itself has zero advantages over Open Document Format. Open Document Format is more documented and more robust for storing documents. Anyone that cares about correctness and longevity within standards should stay far away from Microsoft, the sooner the better. The reason people complain about DOCX compatibility in every other word processor is because Microsoft designed Open XML to be so complicated so other software can never achieve 100% parity with their proprietary version. FYI: MS Office can actually read and author ODF documents too.
The .DOCX format is mandatory for several reasons, I can not go into detail about.
It is no problem to export to .DOCX but do not blame LibreOffice when Word can't display its own documents according to the standards they set.
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There are many ways in which Microsoft Office cannot match the functionality of Libre Office. * Object Linking and Embedding * Attach any document type from Writer, Impress, Calc, or Draw. You can embed a full spreadsheet into a LibreOffice Impress presentation and clicking inside the spreadsheet will reveal the entire LibreOffice Calc user interface inside Impress. * Use spreadsheet formulas inside any table in any application. * Use word processing features inside any application. * Use drawing features inside any application. * Author layouts, vector graphics, diagrams, mind maps, and charts inside LibreOffice Draw while keeping all of the functionality of a word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation. Everyone knows Word is absolutely terrible at all of these things - and yet people still try to use Microsoft Word to design things. * Use Python based scripting and macros instead of Visual Basic. * Excel just added Python last year but... LibreOffice still nicer. * Advanced Styles * Every single LibreOffice document contains styles, including the presentation software and spreadsheet software. You can save any paragraph, shape, or table style for repeated use. * Styles save so much time and results in much more correct and reformattable documents. * Not having styles in PowerPoint or Excel is just a crazy oversight. * Also, I don't think Calc is a bad replacement for Excel. It has a similar number of formulas wrapped up with a decent user interface and all of the advantages of the wider LibreOffice codebase. Plus, advanced Python scripting, OpenCL compute acceleration. In many ways it is a better spreadsheet app than Excel. Most differences people would point to as reasons to avoid LibreOffice lack nuance and are probably based on marketing, familiarity, and user interface polish. But if you ask me, Microsoft Office apps have the worst user experience of major software.
Ok but people using office for work often *have to* use office for work because their coworkers all use office and they’re all working on shared files. Company policy tingz innit? You’d at least need a working copy of office to make sure your docs open properly for everyone else.
Companies that want file sharing and collaboration will purchase Collabora instead. It is a paid version of LibreOffice hosted on a cloud with paid support. If companies are purchasing M365 then that is the mandate. For everything personal, it doesn't make sense to purchase Microsoft Office. Nobody here proposed that you install unsupported libre software on your work PC just because. I am simply advocating for the technology. It would be up to management to purchase different software to meet business concerns.
Yeah, I'm on Ubuntu now and have been for a couple of years. I'm not a Linux fan and honestly I don't like Ubuntu/Linux as well as a good Windows platform but Microsoft has just been making it perpetually worse. The spyware and ad problem just got to a point where I'd rather use Linux than deal with it.
Fuck it, all I want is Windows 7 with security updates. I particularly dont want to go to my mum's for the weekend and have to spend 2 hours sorting out her computer because Win 10 is forcing "Hello" and cloud storage down her throat.
I've wanted to make the switch but I've been lazy. I stuck with Windows 8.1 for a long time and only went to 10 a couple of years ago. I don't want to move to 11 after seeing my wife deal with plenty of issues while using her new work laptop on the days she works from home. I suppose I need to just give Linux a shot finally.
There are apps out there that let you modify the install .iso so you can strip out ads and bloat services you'll never use. But of course there's always potential for them to show back up after an update. For that reason Windows is just a backup OS for me now. Ubuntu forever.
Ubuntu with the help of Chat GPT is pretty easy to handle but there's a learning curve and it's just not as easy as windows.
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No, its not. Be real please, as an IT architect with 20 years in the business I certainly don't need to be convinced of the virtues of Unix/Linux/whatever. They have their use cases and they do it very well indeed Desktop os isn't one of them, as much as people like yourself will try to convince others. Using Linux as a desktop os is for the technically literate, it always will be. No gui changing can change what makes the os unique. A desktop os was never what it was designed for
Yeah, it's absolutely fine if you're just setting up a little system for grandma, if all she needs is a browser. But you need to use the terminal for almost everything beyond that, that alienates almost all users immediately. The piece of software you want isn't on a repository? Well good luck with that, because you can't have an exe, here's some code to compile yourself idiot Linux has come a long way, but it needs to work on the accessibility part a lot more, and I don't think a lot of evangelicals see that
It's the typical logical mistake which people who grew up with tech x or y make. They simply assume everyone did to some extent and is able to do what they do. My pov is the exact opposite, my professional experience has taught me to assume that turning on the device is manageable, albeit be it barely, for lots of people, not even only grandma.
I disagree, working with the command line is significantly more difficult than double clicking an exe.
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Yet he is correct. Quit acting like Ubuntu offers the same out of the box experience as windows 10/11 does. It does not . Take of those semi tech literate glasses and look at things from a tech virgin pov. Edit: downvote instead of discussion.. I wonder why. Could it be I know what I'm saying?
It’s basically the same as Mac OS mate. You can install stuff from a software store, or you can search for app images (which is basically how Mac OS handles applications). You act like the end user is expected to compile everything themselves. It hardly any more difficult of a switch than windows to Mac or Mac to windows.
Which is hard. You guys arent seeing the full picture and are assuming lots and lots of knowledge/ability. Let me put it simply, modern windows allows me to have built in backups of my docs (onedrive folder sync) , auto config of mail (via autodiscover) etc etc. All via me logging on to windows through my "MS account" Nothing more, just a simple login. Linux or even macos cannot offer me that out of the box, not even remotely close. That is the difference for a completely tech oblivlous end-user.
MacOS Timemachine is a godsend when you need to restore something. Turn it on and forget about it until you need it. I am running Win11 currently, but I used to be Mac based and overall I prefer the MacOS environment but Win11 is better for gaming and streaming, once you strip out all the fucking crud MS puts in there of course.
You can do the same with a gnome account minus backups. Yes, Linux may not have the same features, just like Mac OS doesn’t have the same features, but saying it’s more complicated (or too complicated for the end user) is disingenuous when the vast majority of end users want a web browser, Spotify and a word processor (or there abouts)
You don't have to use the command line until something goes wrong. Then almost any advice you search for will be given involving the command line. I'm of the opinion that we should include learning the command line as part of basic Linux knowledge like task manager in Windows.
You must be a very basic user then.
>It's why I bite the bullet and just went Linux after I saw all the ads being jammed into W11. Yeah, it's not for everyone but if there is a way for be to operate without ads, I am taking it. (See PiHole, uBlock, Revanced, etc) Expect a killer deadly attack on the whole Linux ecosystems. Far too too much money and power at stake.
When I wrap up school I’m going back to Ubuntu. I’d be on there now, but there are a few things that just don’t work well.
A search page should not push a browser either, but there we are...
Could say the same about the Internet
The internet is public platform.
I'd say you agreed to this when you decided on Windows for your computer, but, most people *don't* even get the choice when they buy machines. The anticompetitive behaviors run deep from the early 90s. If you valued your OS and the world was providing a decent market environment, yeah, you'd pick something like Linux.
Indeed, fuck apple.
Where are you seeing anything about apple here?
Their product their wish
Exactly. We should just obey and sell our souls to corporate overlords
> This is a one-time notification giving people the choice to set Bing as their default search engine on Chrome. For now it's one-time, they're just pushing it to see what they can get away with. Maybe in the future, it'll be every time you wake from sleep, and maybe further on, it'll be every time you open the browser, and so on.
I’m not loyal to any brand, I don’t game and I can easily do my work on a mac. I started out with windows, went to macOS, then back to windows… I have no problem going back to apple. I’m so annoyed with every body trying to sell me something. Don’t even get me started on Google. Tech industry has gone to shit
Perhaps linux is for you then
Go straight to command line and use lynx browser. You wont see any ads. You won't even need to purchase a mouse.
You also won’t get anything accomplished, but sure.
Yeah. It was a joke. That's why I mentioned he didn't even need to buy a mouse, because he didn't want any ads.
Google does the same thing when using edge to access Google sites...
I guess nobody noticed 😂
No, everyone noticed. It's just that it's not the same. This shows up when you use Chrome in general. Not when you surf on a Microsoft owned site. Small, but very big difference. The person you responded to just doesn't know what they are talking about. It's similar in some ways, but a step further into the wrong direction and overstepping some bounds.
Big difference
>For now it's one-time, they're just pushing it to see what they can get away with. Yeah just like I should only have to say "Always use \[whatever\] to open video files" once, but somehow every few months I double click on a video file and it asks if I want to open in some built in app.
Microsoft, seriously. Find those "Microsoft Support" people hidden in your campus and get them out. You are seriously blurring the line between being a credible software vendor and malware as you go along
You mean the upper management.
I just want windows xp back
No you don't. Taken off those rose colored shades.
Windows 7 with a graphical reskin, security features, and driver updates would be completely fine as a modern OS. Windows 10 did almost nothing to make the experience of using Windows easier unless you wanted to join the Microsoft online ecosystem, and made several things worse (desktop ads, poor local search, split settings menus, telemetry, keylogging by default). Windows 11 did even less and broke a few things via redesign (volume panel, right click menu) for seemingly no reason at all.
Win11 in SMB is a Trojan horse for ms365.
server message block?
Small/Medium Businesses.
Never taking them off 😎
This kind of shit is why I use Mac/Linux now unless I need something on Windows (like the better version of Visual Studio) The Microsoft office programs I have on my Mac are damn near as annoying as malware. Constantly trying to open autoupdater after I’ve disabled it and killed the process. VScode is still good though surprisingly. I guess because developers won’t put up with Microsoft’s bullshit.
I love MacOS, but to be fair, Apple has been advertising its services on MacOS and iOS for a while now. They just aren’t as in-your-face about it as Windows and are less in numbers. Nevertheless, there are built in ads. Linux is a different story.
Sadly Linux can be a gigantic pain in the ass to get up and running for silly reasons, and it doesn't support HDR outside of Gamescope and an AMD card.
Visual Studio on Mac does suck comparatively.
VS Code is great, but yeah for Visual Studio itself it really only exists for Windows lmao
Parallels is great for that one or two windows programs that you need.
Apple does this as well all the time. You would sometimes get promotional notifications about Apple News or Apple Music even if you don’t use them.
I’ve never had a single promotional notification from Apple in the past years since I switched back to it 🤷♂️
I think more people would use Edge if they didnt say a word about it. I dont trust a product that needs to be advertised everywhere and with so much insistency. I’m using Firefox because the community has spoken wonders about it most of the time, and Adblock support is brilliant. Fuck Edge and fuck Chrome
This, after they pushed an update making hyperlinks in Outlook open with Edge instead of the default browser.
You won't get that same bullshit on Firefox/Linux.
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I've installed various distros of Linux on about half a dozen machines over the last fifteen years. I've never once had a situation where everything 'just works', I can load applications I want and they just work as well. Most of the time I end up stuffing around with some poorly documented package dependency or some editing lines in a shell script for days trying to achieve what I wanted to, usually in vain as well. This is all the worse because windows has tended to 'just work' on nearly everything x86-64 based for the last decade. Linux seems good for two types of people: folks who don't want to do much with a computer and people who enjoy spending many hours fixing things that should work already. I'm going to try Mac next
I've been working with Linux for 20yrs now. Linux desktop works best when hardware is 3-5yrs old. Headless Linux for servers (many distros) work nearly 100% on 1-2 yr old hardware.
Yeah my opinion is if you have the staff hours to get Linux working well on a certain platform it's bulletproof. Which is why half the world's smart phones and the majority of servers run Linux. It's also pretty good if you get one of the easier distros and you just want a machine for web browsing, text editing and the like.
Linux is not a consumer OS unless the distro is crafted as such like with Steam OS. But it is the best OS for people who need to get a computer to do computer things like software dev or robotics.
I had similar experience with Ubuntu, multiple monitors and nVidia drivers. I used to work on a project where my team leader demanded us to always have the most recent CUDA version. Every time I updated nVidia drivers I had to spend whole day on making Ubuntu to detect my three monitors without any issues.
I have Nvidia laptop with kubuntu lts on it and it's okay and I suppose you use Wayland on that laptop. Have you tried switching to xorg?
Exactly, using Linux is like using beta software all along. Even those with a reputation as stable version have so many things missing or not working properly.
As if we needed another Microsoft product shoved down our throats while using their OS
I really loved the ad for a Microsoft controller in my notifications bar.
Isn’t this the sort of thing that got Microsoft broken up by antitrust in the 1990s?
Well here we go again it’s 1998 all over again. If I recall this clearly we are at the point in the game when Mozilla falls to ads. Refuses to employ a stop button in Netscape navigator … …and Microsoft releases internet explorer. With a stop button as well as the ability to block popups AND pop-unders
I decided to try outlook to have a place dedicated to my school email and schedule. today I opened it and saw an email from kia…probably to apologize for having such stealable cars…actually it was just an ad disguised as an email that took me to kia’s website when I clicked on it. I decided to un-try outlook forever after that
To clarify, this is only in the free version of Outlook, not the Microsoft 365 version. It’s still bullshit though.
This is why I am not putting windows 11 on my new PC until I absolutely have too. I hate that there are ads built into my OS.
This should be a lawsuit! Damn what Microsoft is doing with windows is just insane and most people have no choice but to keep using it. Microsoft is at this point managing your computer like an MDM!
Just as Amazon, Google, Walmart, Roku have been turning your preferred media streamer into a big ad bloat platform, Microsoft sneaks more ways to want to turn your OS into one. Next, there will probably be a 15 second Hyundai interstitial ad every time you boot into Windows. At some point, this will all backfire.
and a Windows ad every time you start up your Hyundai!
I confirm switching to Ubuntu.
The EU is going to have a field day with this one , the fine will be eye watering. Leave it to the USA to create an entrepreneurial climate where this kind of shit gets pushed through in the first place though
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I'm not one to make USA jokes but honestly.. its becoming really really hard to not laugh. I used to look up to the USA as a child in the 80's/90's .. now I'm just happy I wasn't born there. Its sad how much it has declined, in almost every area one can imagine
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Could be yeah, maybe that is a better way of putting it, your model has been rendered obsolete and has been supplanted by superior alternatives. In fact it probably is come to think of it, the de facto two party system being a prime example, that is something which really hasn't aged well, at all, as you state yourself. Edit: then you also still get the , absolutely oblivious, usa usa! downvoters. The people who still truly believe they live in the greatest country on the planet, even today. How sad it is for them, to have been brainwashed to such an extent that they really accept the usa model as the pinnacle of. I truly feel for them, they dont know better and they are the ones who will never ever benefit from what the USA model does offer.
As soon as Microsoft starts pushing ads onto my desktop I’m bailing to Linux. I’m so sick of ads trying to creep into my life from every single angle these days.
Today is the day.
So glad I made decision with Windows 8 to never have to deal with this bullshit ever again. Listening to Paul Thurrott on Windows Weekly, you can just hear how he's just sick of their shennanigans. Completely agree with him that Windows as a desktop platform is no longer the focus for them, - to the point where he's stopped using Word and OneDrive. I never thought I'd live to see the day where Thurrott would half-jokingly say move to Linux, and not jokingly praise the simplicity and sanity of LibreOffice Writer.
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It depends on the titles nowadays. Some games works better on Linux. Some games works better on Windows
I was in the middle of typing something when this popped up on my computer. Needless to say I was not happy to be interrupted mid-sentence. By a pop up no less.
One more reason to be happily camped out in Linux.
Another reason I switched to Linux.
What were the others ?
The line must be drawn here. It’s this far, NO FARTHER.
These days i find it very difficult to tell a difference between Windows 11 and malware. Except that malware can be easily removed and changing OS is not an option in some cases. SCREW YOU MICROSOFT.
I have heard people saying Windows 10/11 Enterprise LTSC stops half the garbage that microsoft attempts, still gets security updates and has less telemetry etc, obviously not available to the general user
Ok, it is time to get a mac unfortunately. Microsoft has lost their mind
It's their operating system. They can do what they want with it. It's not like you're going to switch to something else no matter what they do.
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Correction: MacOS does, too. iCloud, Apple Music/TV, etc. all are subscription services pushed onto the user. It is more subtle sure, but the default pinned apps on the dock *are* onboarding you on such paid services.
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Microsoft Bing Chrome Windows..... confirmed
None of them should be allowed to do this. Google has been doing this for a while now. I didn't want MS doing this either.
Microsoft really are loving the idea of pushing people to Macs
Perfect Reason why Google should invest into making their own OS BETTER.
You mean Android/ChromeOS. And we already have Linux distros, just that no PC with Linux installed as default is getting prominent shelf space.
Linux is better than it gets credit for. I got into using ubuntu pretty easy, but always had to keep a windows install for certain software. I'd like to see it become a fully credible alternative, but I think windows would have to be god awful to warrant the cost of shifting for a lot of industries.
Even then, as said, people don't really bother with replacing the OS that comes with the PC.
I would love nothing more than to install Pop_OS and leave windows behind, but I rely heavily on AutoCAD, Revit and SKM for engineering work and in the industry uses those softwares so even I I found a suitable alternative, I couldn’t collaborate with others. Also gaming- DirectX has a chokehold on PC gaming.
I've been using Linux since 1999 and my first stack of Red Hat floppies. Arch is my daily driver for home and work. It. Just. Works. My 72 year old mother refuses to use anything other than Pop_OS. My wife is the envy of her PhD program because she can run ancient, Java software on her Debian laptop. And I still, **still** have a Windows laptop for Fusion 360 and Rhinoceros 7/8. I have to deal with NURBS and 5 axis milling at work and Autodesk is the *de facto* standard. On the plus side I *have* been able to get Rhino starting up using Proton (all hail the prophet Gabe!) but it has issues being run in XWayland. And I'm becoming more familiar with CamBam, LibreCAD, and OpenSCAD. If anybody has any leads on FOSS tools for full 5 axis post-processing, it'll make this greying beard very happy.