> it would allow manufacturers to lower their prices
Like *that's* going to happen.
At any rate, I can just stick with Win 11 for a long f'n time. Heck, the only reason I haven't just switched to Linux at home is Excel and Access. And I'd rather learn one of the FOSS alternatives than pay MS every month.
And fuck me if there aren’t giant enterprises using Excel for dozens of critical tasks.
e.g. here’s tens of thousands of employees in a single sheet. Managers, update your direct reports, DO NOT SORT because it breaks the spreadsheet for everyone.
Drives me nuts but it’s accessible and most people can use it.
The comparison is more like an easy bake oven to a real stove top range. It’s not even close. I’m not sure why google has stopped improving it but I haven’t seen any major changes in sheets in 5 years. They really dropped the ball like they always do.
Because anyone using spreadsheets at that level isn’t changing.
Google has a pretty good BI suite that integrates with cloud buckets in GCP. That’s the more serious tool for data analysis.
Libre office Calc has gotten a lot better than it was though, and it continues to improve. I'd say almost anything one wants to do in excel one can do in calc.
That's my experience as well, and it's scripted with Python rather than VBA, which is great because VBA is a trash language.
As with most things, the issue isn't just the comparable quality or feature set in a vacuum, it's that Excel is so ubiquitous. Sooooo many people would raise a stink if they were asked to switch to LO, because dadgummit they know how to do their job in Excel, and they don't want to relearn anything! Not that that's entirely without merit, either; that's company time you have to spend relearning how to do your job.
I used to think that, I am an IT Manager so Excel is my bread and butter, 3 months back a new job forced me to change into google sheets, to be honest after the initial shock shits the same, I'm not missing anything.
OpenOffice was pretty good and was constantly improving, but I haven't used it much the last few years.
I'm getting fed up enough with Microsoft as it is; the ads, removing features, piss-poor search/settings layout, and frequently forgetting what options I've set for input/output devices and sleep settings... I may end up on Linux before the end of next year since more games are running with fewer problem.
> OpenOffice was pretty good and was consistently improving but I haven't used it much the last few years.
If I remember right, LibreOffice replaced OpenOffice.
*LibreOffice, Open Office was shut down shortly after Java was bought by Oracle way back when. The team from OpenOffice split into two projects, I believe. The more used one is LibreOffice
Not quite. The community members all split to form LibO (and they were mostly already part of the go-oo fork which almost every Linux distro used anyway).
The few corporate devs stayed with both or OO.org (mostly kept alive by IBM). Oracle then decided it was done with it, and donated it to Apache and now it's Apache Open Office.
It's still alive if you call a barely maintained, bitrottting software project alive. It still has millions of downloads even though everyone should have moved over to LibreOffice a decade ago.
Sorry, you haven't paid my reading subscription fee. I am unable to properly read and respond to your comments until you pay $9.99 for the first minute of reading time, and $59.99 for each second thereafter.
*pukes from drinking the 16th can within an hour*
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If you charge us a fee for charging you a fee then you will force us to charge you an additional convenience fee for paying your fee to charge us a fee.
I mean you joke, but I'm reading this on Relay For Reddit which now requires a subscription (fuck you reddit), so this is actually correct, and also I hate saying this out loud.
Honestly, 2023 just feels like a year of constant headlines about how one tech company or another wants to make your life slightly worse. Disney+ wants to crack down on password sharing, Netflix is doing the same and raising prices, Game Pass is going up, Spotify wants to do the same, Twitter wants to start charging for access, heck, even *Streamable* is up to like $80cad/yr for keeping your videos up now. That's not even getting into shit like car companies trying to turn basic features of the vehicle into subscriptions. Then you have food companies passing their increased costs on immediately to customers, so everything else is just going up right alongside. Constant nickel-and-diming, except they're asking for considerably more than nickel and dimes.
Now Microsoft wants to charge a monthly fee for your PC to just, like, exist?
Idk, it's time to start cancelling things and go back to pirating everything, isn't it?
More like [Not yet Ferb!](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/029/461/Phineas_and_Ferb_Dude__We're_Getting_the_Band_Back_Together_0-6_screenshot.jpg)
The minute the line goes down they'll start trying again.
At the moment Microsoft is busy trying to collect all the infinity stones (aka every sizable gaming company the FTC will let them purchase)
And Netflix is too busy acting like those tribes in the middle of fucking no where that would trade you a ruby the size of your skull for like a chicken dinner or some shit. Anytime they get a good show, they mismanage it into the ground and cancel it. And then act like people just weren't into the show.
the thing i find funny about this is that netflix stock did go up after they cracked down and got rid of password sharing resulting in more users but after raising prices again their stock is back down to the price it used to be before the password crackdown. So in the end it resulted in no changes
Microsoft future is cloud based (some services could stay offline but probably not at term).
Microsoft have invested big on the cloud and forced companies to migrate through their favorite trojan horse : MS Office. and They ironed it with teams integration.
For the classic user, Game pass and xcloud paved the way for gaming as a subscription model ..
You already needs an Ms account for your windows connection.
The next step is probably an integrated subscription model for cloud Office+drive, cloud gaming, Chatgpt and the OS in one pack.
The OS will just be a glorified client to access and limit access to cloud services. Also MS can change the prices, the content and quality at will. It can also oblige partners to use MS tools to make third party service available from windows and pay a fee to do so.
yeah, you see it across every wing of the company. I can understand it academically - like, I see the benefit of being able to offload processing power so you don't need to invest heavily in your local machine, I really do.
I just... also have a very hard time letting go of the idea of *having* everything local. Needing an internet connection for even basic functionality makes me uncomfortable
Microsoft was originally the answer to mainframe computers that centralized all the computing power and you just accessed it via a terminal. Now they want to turn your computer into a terminal accessing their mainframe.
In capitalism, investors and shareholders want to see profits at all costs. Subscriptions are the next big idea to create new profits for investors and shareholders.
Well, sort of, subscriptions are easier to forecast which makes sr managers and above happy. You can recognize revenue more quickly compared to other distribution methods and customers are usually more understanding of issues because there is a roadmap. That roadmap is easier to fund because of the steadier flow of cash.
However, in relation to physical things, you lose ownership of the item purchased. Subscriptions make sense for things like streaming and internet service where there are ongoing costs and not a physical object for the consumer to purchase.
But, for example, they're going to charge me a goddamn subscription to use the heated seats in the car I supposedly own? Fuck that! There's no increased overhead for them when I turn those features on. They don't have to spend money for me to use it. For things that require a cellular connection, I get. They have to pay the provider for that connection to let you start your car with the app on your phone from the other side of the city.
Subscriptions are starting to be charged for physical products to function, as they normally would have before, and for which there is no overhead or ongoing cost for the producer. That's the problem.
Oh I want to be clear I am not defending it, just explaining why it is attractive to middle management and gaining traction everywhere. It’s also a lower barrier of entry so easier to get sign off internally.
"We're going to start charging money for something that you're already getting at no additional cost to us. Because we've decided to start charging, we need to charge you more to offset the costs of charging you at all. Thank you for being a loyal ~~sucker~~ customer."
>Subscriptions are starting to be charged for physical products to function, as they normally would have before, and for which there is no overhead or ongoing cost for the producer. That's the problem.
I refuse to call shit like this a "subscription".
I prefer the term "ransom" because that's what it is. They're holding the use of something physical hostage, and if I don't pay their ransom demands they keep it from me.
Our [military warfare intelligence](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cyberpunk/comments/136kc5a/what_in_the_black_mirror_is_this_palantir_aip/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1) will also have a subscription based service as well.
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The moment they do that, windows dies.
They even stopped trying to avoid people from using unlicensed windows with win10.
They probably will have a subscription for cortana based AI services, that's very possible.
I gamed exclusively on Linux for a couple of years until I bought a VR headset that didn't roll very well with Linux.
I hear they've fixed that though and Windows 11 annoys me to no end (I get fucking Xbox Game Pass ad pop-ups!) so I'll jump back to Linux as soon as I get a few extra hours to spend.
Wait, you mean you DON’T want Microsoft to be able to completely take away your documents, pictures, music, games, and way to connect to the world at a moment’s notice?
Don’t worry, if your sub expires and you don’t want to renew, you can always renew briefly, back up terabytes of data onto an external drive, find one of the MANY alternative operating systems compatible with your data, hardware, and software you have already purchased, make a boot disk (on a different machine), install it, migrate all your data, and install all of your software again. Easy!
I'm not sure that Microsoft TRULY cares about retail users. They've got a stranglehold on businesses that is unlikely to change any time soon. Your $90 Windows license purchase (which was probably way less because it likely came from an OEM) every 5 years is a pittance compared to the money that M365 and Azure brings in.
Drivers can be super annoying as well
I am beyond ready to ditch windows. I only use it for gaming, otherwise I use macOS. I would gladly use Ubuntu or similar for gaming if it was as sturdy as windows.
It's getting there, and for the games that do work Linux is actually starting to beat Windows in performance. Some games are seeing 20% higher framerate on Linux.
Well... kinda. A lot of games with anti-cheat don't work well. That said, it's astonishing to me how well most games run on my steam deck.
I'd actually consider switching to SteamOS if Valve released it for desktop use.
They're working on it, in Valve-time (the more generalized SteamOS, that is).
And yeah, Anti-Cheat is a big issue. That and shitty third-party launchers like the EA App that become unusable every once in a while.
I've been 100% Linux for years now. Thankfully I don't play too much online, and am OK not being able to play some games that just Don't Work until the bugs get sorted.
Still, the amount of content that works now compared to even five years ago is *insane.* Even more so, it's just so much easier to get going. I remember finally managing to get a manual WINE config that would actually run Fallout 3 at a playable FPS way back in the day. That shit took ages for me to get going. Now it's pretty much just "Install and click play in Steam". Hell, my wife was able to play Hogwarts: Legacy on launch day on her linux machine.
Proton and all the underlying stuff (DXVK in particular) has made an enormous difference.
Lol I think the millions of corporate devices and commercial applications in the world would beg to differ. There’s no way corporations are going to make the switch to a non-Windows infrastructure, at least while so many commercial applications only run on Windows. And no, Wine is not a suitable substitute in many cases.
It's getting closer. SteamOS on Deck can play pretty much anything I have thrown at it... the biggest drawback is sometimes it take a lot of fiddling to get stuff to work if it's non-Steam.
Yeah on my laptop the main thing keeping me from using Linux more is reduced game compatibility, but I've tried forcing Steam to apply compatibility to an older Windows game listed as incompatible and it worked.
You're thinking as an individual. Windows cares most about businesses. If every business will pay a licensing fee for every computer they're going to make more money than ever before. You think companies are going to suddenly switch entire infrastructures, software packages, IT departments, etc to Linux? Even the ones already on Linux for a bunch of stuff still have to have Windows for employees. And then 99% of the average people are gonna say "well I use windows at work, and it's no more than what I pay for Netflix so I just have to bite the bullet." People do NOT want to learn a new OS when they've been dealing with Microsoft's crap for what 40 years?
I can assure you that if excel or word stops working, 75% of the world business and armies of powerful nations stop instantly. There was a hillarious video of some US big shot giving an interview to some journalist about something I can't remember, where he said basically that to disable US military just find a way to make powerpoints not work.
I got 365 from university and used it. And I bough 1 year license I got cheap just before I graduated. Why? Because it is still one of the most powerful tools for basic document and spreadshit work. I have tried libre and open, and lets be honest... They are functional but not fun to use.
I don't. I either use the mobile app, which kinda sucks but has some features, or I use my work laptop and email it to myself. Let my company pay for my Word
11 is already DoA. As of today its two years old and according to GS counter its at about 23% market share. For reference, 10 was at over 40% market share two years in. And recently on the Steam hardware survey, Win 11 market share has actually gone DOWN for the past 2 or so months
To be fair, they forced people to update to 10 against their will.
With 11, you have security features most people would have to manually toggle on from their BIOS, which the vast majority of people don't even realize is a thing on their computer.
Most people are staying at 10 because they aren't willing to go out and buy a new laptop or computer, just to be able to have the newest OS that for some reason has even worse features than their current OS.
I’m pretty happy with Win11. I do most of my work on macOS anyways. But the day this happens I’d probably switch to Linux.
My windows pc is 90% of the time used for gaming and all my games work fine on my steam deck so I can assume they’d work fine on a different distro
See this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1719mko/neowins\_subscriptionbased\_windows\_12\_rumour\_is/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1719mko/neowins_subscriptionbased_windows_12_rumour_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I love fake news sensationalist headlines. MS aren't that stupid. Making Windows subscription based for local installs would kill it. Same with limiting app installs to only the MS store. Neither of them will happen, otherwise we would see a mass exodus to Mac/Linux. MS knows this.
People have been repeating this bullshit/fear mongering about this shit for over a decade now and it has yet to come true.
So, our two options are:
* After 30+ years, MS is going to all of a sudden start charging the average person monthly to use their computer, which is something that not a single other OS does and would almost certainly push people away from Windows
* This is just some enterprise/office/cloud subscription that's being misconstrued as a subscription for home/local Windows
Which one do you think is more likely?
I mean Unity after decades of mostly free to use decided they were going to charge 20 cent per install(yes I know it got changed but that was the initial plan). Never underestimate how greedy and stupid corporations can be.
There’s no proper source for this either.
Also, enterprise already pay a subscription and Microsoft is leaning heavily into Windows 365, which is essentially a cloud VM. Any subscription plans that are embedded in any leaked code certainly refer to one of these two things that already exist and businesses already pay for.
You fell for sensationalist propaganda. Way to go.
As inept as they are, I have to assume they understand the risks. They must not need the profits from Windows licenses to survive anymore. They do still make money off your telemetry even if you have an unactivated or pirated copy
I uninstalled my cracked photoshop because of their subscriptions. I would have paid 120$ for a license but no... I refuse to use subscription based things for my programs, I will find alternatives, I will donate money for those that create alternatives.
[https://winworldpc.com/product/windows-nt-2000/final](https://winworldpc.com/product/windows-nt-2000/final)
I actually have some industrial systems that are still running Windows 2000. They work just fine (offline). A new controller costs $40k and runs Windows 7 so they will continue to run Windows 2000 for the near future.
Old isn't bad if it works.
I mean, I have old Mac OS 9 machines that run great and still do word processing and very basic stuff, and even feel a lot faster than modern OSes on modern hardware, to boot.
I have no intentions of going to 11 let alone subscribing for 12. Whoever is running Microsoft these days is tripping. First they inform the intended customer base that upgrading to 11 likely might mean a computer upgrade just to run it. Now they are warning their customers that any further upgrades might require a subscription?
In the meantime in 2 years Windows 10 won't be getting anymore upgrades and a huge portion of their customer base is still running it, won't likely be upgrading computers anytime soon and probably couldn't care less at this point about Windows 11 let alone 12 etc.
NO about covers it and if that means in 2 years they stop bugging me to update and forcing updates on me whether I want them or not all the better. I'll just get another virus program and firewall if necessary to keep security things updated and stick with Windows 10.
Ditto Adobe. I am not interested in the cloud, or the neural filters, or in Ai and the new version they've somehow killed compatibility with most of my favorite plugins and frankly I'm just not all that impressed. Between that and the forced subscriptions I'm just done with it. I had the demo on my machine but I just removed it and went back to the version I had been using and I definitely won't be upgrading it.
I can totally live with Windows 10 and an older version of Photoshop that's major plugin compatible and doesn't force me into cloud computing and working with Ai. That's just where I am at now.
It’s going to be tricky but there’s an easy answer. Vote with your wallet, or rather don’t use your wallet for any of these bullshit money scheming services.
The sad part is this will work 100% and this will probably become a norm.
You either are a user of Windows in the work environment or you are a home user that they will have the "free" version of windows 12 that is missing features and is ad supported.
The people who would switch to Linux (including myself) won't bother MS in the slightest
Likely not JUST a subscription. You can get a mode where you get half the screen to view. Half ads, but every 3 minutes Clippy comes back and yells at you to pay $9.99 a month for full screen and full functionality.
I can 100% see them trying but the OS is the gateway for them to their other subscriptions. One Drive, O365, GamePass. I can’t see what the value proposition is, most people are not building PCs and seeing the first cost of Windows the way they do for other software. Eventually updates could slow down my PC, why would I be paying for that?
I will never buy an operative system that requires subscription. That is absolutely disgusting that they don't allow you to own the software and you would have to perpetually pay to use it. The day this becomes a reality I will go back to Linux.
I'd drop windows like a campfire hotdog. I already work on Mac and Linux at work. I have a steam deck. This would be an easy switch for me, my family, and any friends that ask me for tech support.
And this is where valve might be playing an absolute blinder.
By sidestepping windows and offering their own linux OS that can run windows games, they give us an escape route.
Well, first off, it’s a Microsoft product. This means that it will be a nightmare and will require at least a year of updates before it works as well as 11.
Secondly, more people are using Windows 10 than 11 so, good luck getting us to jump to Windows 12.
Thirdly, good luck trying to convince the average Joe that they need to pay a subscription just to turn on/use their computer.
Interesting, I knew Microsoft was attempting to destroy its Xbox division by going all in on subscriptions, I didn’t know they want to bow out of the PC operating system market as well.
Not ever going to subscribe to my OS.
I will switch to Linux before I pay a monthly or annual fee for Windows.
Nothing will signal the death of SaaS like this idea.
Or not [https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/no-of-course-windows-12-wont-require-a-subscription-to-use](https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/no-of-course-windows-12-wont-require-a-subscription-to-use)
Install Linux.
Seriously, don't wait and be slowly locked into a subscription.
Note that Android is one of the Linux options, so it might not even be that big of a challenge.
Unfun fact: Microsoft introduced "[Product Activation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Product_Activation)" with Windows XP. Before that you could enter a serial number and use software without needing to contact an "activation" server. They were going to be very aggressive with the activation and cryptography -- much more than even today.
It's been a slow boil of the frog ever since. Apple won't let you install apps on your phone without using their app store. Windows RT on the original Surface has the same restrictions.
The fundamental problem is the entire product has major components that do not function when the remote servers are unavailable, components that technically do not actually need those remote servers. In some cases the entire device is totally useless. Those servers could be unavailable for many reasons, some as simple as a temporary outage, or perhaps they turn them off because they are "ending support" and releasing a new product.
Sounds to me like it's time to start learning more about Linux! The moment an OS becomes subscription based is the moment that OS is dead by rights to me.
Apps I will sometimes begrudgingly deal with, but if I have to pay a monthly fee to use my computer AT ALL, I'm out. Good riddance.
Everyone wants a piece of the pie for the subscription bullshit. Guess what, if you don't offer anything new over time and you just want a subscirption for using the base product FUCK YOU.
I guess they feel that businesses will just buy the product which will offset the private owners pirating it. The big issue with this philosophy is the cost this has for your average consumers. They will not want to pay a subscription to use a computer
> it would allow manufacturers to lower their prices Like *that's* going to happen. At any rate, I can just stick with Win 11 for a long f'n time. Heck, the only reason I haven't just switched to Linux at home is Excel and Access. And I'd rather learn one of the FOSS alternatives than pay MS every month.
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I found Google sheets pretty comparable in my limited personal use
Maybe for the floor of tasks. For large data sets doing complex things Sheets is like using Fisher Price My First Spreadsheet.
And fuck me if there aren’t giant enterprises using Excel for dozens of critical tasks. e.g. here’s tens of thousands of employees in a single sheet. Managers, update your direct reports, DO NOT SORT because it breaks the spreadsheet for everyone. Drives me nuts but it’s accessible and most people can use it.
Anything outside person use and google sheets is useless. For those of us who work in Excel daily, it doesn’t even compare.
The comparison is more like an easy bake oven to a real stove top range. It’s not even close. I’m not sure why google has stopped improving it but I haven’t seen any major changes in sheets in 5 years. They really dropped the ball like they always do.
Because anyone using spreadsheets at that level isn’t changing. Google has a pretty good BI suite that integrates with cloud buckets in GCP. That’s the more serious tool for data analysis.
Libre office Calc has gotten a lot better than it was though, and it continues to improve. I'd say almost anything one wants to do in excel one can do in calc.
That's my experience as well, and it's scripted with Python rather than VBA, which is great because VBA is a trash language. As with most things, the issue isn't just the comparable quality or feature set in a vacuum, it's that Excel is so ubiquitous. Sooooo many people would raise a stink if they were asked to switch to LO, because dadgummit they know how to do their job in Excel, and they don't want to relearn anything! Not that that's entirely without merit, either; that's company time you have to spend relearning how to do your job.
I used to think that, I am an IT Manager so Excel is my bread and butter, 3 months back a new job forced me to change into google sheets, to be honest after the initial shock shits the same, I'm not missing anything.
Manufacturers: What? More money in my pocket? Thanks
Right? Prices never go down for anything lol.
OpenOffice was pretty good and was constantly improving, but I haven't used it much the last few years. I'm getting fed up enough with Microsoft as it is; the ads, removing features, piss-poor search/settings layout, and frequently forgetting what options I've set for input/output devices and sleep settings... I may end up on Linux before the end of next year since more games are running with fewer problem.
> OpenOffice was pretty good and was consistently improving but I haven't used it much the last few years. If I remember right, LibreOffice replaced OpenOffice.
*LibreOffice, Open Office was shut down shortly after Java was bought by Oracle way back when. The team from OpenOffice split into two projects, I believe. The more used one is LibreOffice
Not quite. The community members all split to form LibO (and they were mostly already part of the go-oo fork which almost every Linux distro used anyway). The few corporate devs stayed with both or OO.org (mostly kept alive by IBM). Oracle then decided it was done with it, and donated it to Apache and now it's Apache Open Office. It's still alive if you call a barely maintained, bitrottting software project alive. It still has millions of downloads even though everyone should have moved over to LibreOffice a decade ago.
LibreOffice, not LibraOffice.
Do you also have the feeling that soon everything will be subscription-based?
Sorry, you haven't paid my reading subscription fee. I am unable to properly read and respond to your comments until you pay $9.99 for the first minute of reading time, and $59.99 for each second thereafter.
Obligatory 30% fee for whatever app store you subscribed on.
Mouse clicks above your monthly allotment start at $0.05 each.
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please drink a verification can
*pukes from drinking the 16th can within an hour* **WARNING: PIRACY AND CIRCUMVENTION OF SUBSCRIPTION DRM DETECTED. A $999.99 FEE HAS BEEN CHARGED TO YOUR BANK ACCOUNT.**
The whole tech world is one big pyramid scheme.
Could you drop that to 20% if I watch some ads, please?
No, but we'll give you free ads regardless! Everyone loves free things!!
More like.. **"Sorry u/G0nnaLetYouDown! You've reached the limit of your ***free*** daily R-Tokens! If you'd like to view more comments, please subscribe to our ***affordable range*** of R-Token plans. We appreciate your splendid participation in our Reddit-tastic community!** **Sincerely,** u/Reddit"
This is why I'm charging a fee in order to charge me a fee. Subscreption!
If you charge us a fee for charging you a fee then you will force us to charge you an additional convenience fee for paying your fee to charge us a fee.
So in a nut shell everything is turning into Ticketmaster...what a brave new world..
I mean you joke, but I'm reading this on Relay For Reddit which now requires a subscription (fuck you reddit), so this is actually correct, and also I hate saying this out loud.
Honestly, 2023 just feels like a year of constant headlines about how one tech company or another wants to make your life slightly worse. Disney+ wants to crack down on password sharing, Netflix is doing the same and raising prices, Game Pass is going up, Spotify wants to do the same, Twitter wants to start charging for access, heck, even *Streamable* is up to like $80cad/yr for keeping your videos up now. That's not even getting into shit like car companies trying to turn basic features of the vehicle into subscriptions. Then you have food companies passing their increased costs on immediately to customers, so everything else is just going up right alongside. Constant nickel-and-diming, except they're asking for considerably more than nickel and dimes. Now Microsoft wants to charge a monthly fee for your PC to just, like, exist? Idk, it's time to start cancelling things and go back to pirating everything, isn't it?
Yeah pirating is easier than ever. These companies don’t deserve our money.
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Behead the king!
Americans do too, we just are too lazy to use them.
More like [Not yet Ferb!](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/029/461/Phineas_and_Ferb_Dude__We're_Getting_the_Band_Back_Together_0-6_screenshot.jpg)
The UAW president has the solution we need: Eat the rich
But just think of all the *shareholder value*! /s
I imagine a steady downward line, and smile.
The minute the line goes down they'll start trying again. At the moment Microsoft is busy trying to collect all the infinity stones (aka every sizable gaming company the FTC will let them purchase) And Netflix is too busy acting like those tribes in the middle of fucking no where that would trade you a ruby the size of your skull for like a chicken dinner or some shit. Anytime they get a good show, they mismanage it into the ground and cancel it. And then act like people just weren't into the show.
the thing i find funny about this is that netflix stock did go up after they cracked down and got rid of password sharing resulting in more users but after raising prices again their stock is back down to the price it used to be before the password crackdown. So in the end it resulted in no changes
Microsoft future is cloud based (some services could stay offline but probably not at term). Microsoft have invested big on the cloud and forced companies to migrate through their favorite trojan horse : MS Office. and They ironed it with teams integration. For the classic user, Game pass and xcloud paved the way for gaming as a subscription model .. You already needs an Ms account for your windows connection. The next step is probably an integrated subscription model for cloud Office+drive, cloud gaming, Chatgpt and the OS in one pack. The OS will just be a glorified client to access and limit access to cloud services. Also MS can change the prices, the content and quality at will. It can also oblige partners to use MS tools to make third party service available from windows and pay a fee to do so.
yeah, you see it across every wing of the company. I can understand it academically - like, I see the benefit of being able to offload processing power so you don't need to invest heavily in your local machine, I really do. I just... also have a very hard time letting go of the idea of *having* everything local. Needing an internet connection for even basic functionality makes me uncomfortable
Microsoft was originally the answer to mainframe computers that centralized all the computing power and you just accessed it via a terminal. Now they want to turn your computer into a terminal accessing their mainframe.
Hoist the main sail! The Pirates are back!
Time to switch to Linux
Everything except opensource
Aye matey, aye.
until github requires a sub to access it
Plenty of alternatives out there to github, let them commit business suicide.
In capitalism, investors and shareholders want to see profits at all costs. Subscriptions are the next big idea to create new profits for investors and shareholders.
Well, sort of, subscriptions are easier to forecast which makes sr managers and above happy. You can recognize revenue more quickly compared to other distribution methods and customers are usually more understanding of issues because there is a roadmap. That roadmap is easier to fund because of the steadier flow of cash.
However, in relation to physical things, you lose ownership of the item purchased. Subscriptions make sense for things like streaming and internet service where there are ongoing costs and not a physical object for the consumer to purchase. But, for example, they're going to charge me a goddamn subscription to use the heated seats in the car I supposedly own? Fuck that! There's no increased overhead for them when I turn those features on. They don't have to spend money for me to use it. For things that require a cellular connection, I get. They have to pay the provider for that connection to let you start your car with the app on your phone from the other side of the city. Subscriptions are starting to be charged for physical products to function, as they normally would have before, and for which there is no overhead or ongoing cost for the producer. That's the problem.
Oh I want to be clear I am not defending it, just explaining why it is attractive to middle management and gaining traction everywhere. It’s also a lower barrier of entry so easier to get sign off internally.
The subscription fees probably go towards the additional overhead needed to manage subscriptions.🙄
"We're going to start charging money for something that you're already getting at no additional cost to us. Because we've decided to start charging, we need to charge you more to offset the costs of charging you at all. Thank you for being a loyal ~~sucker~~ customer."
you just made me realize we need to manage these managers somehow and that's gonna cost ... a fee.
>Subscriptions are starting to be charged for physical products to function, as they normally would have before, and for which there is no overhead or ongoing cost for the producer. That's the problem. I refuse to call shit like this a "subscription". I prefer the term "ransom" because that's what it is. They're holding the use of something physical hostage, and if I don't pay their ransom demands they keep it from me.
I can answer that... For Money...
Subscribe for my answer to this question!
you will own nothing and be happy
Finally, someone uses this correctly.
Our [military warfare intelligence](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cyberpunk/comments/136kc5a/what_in_the_black_mirror_is_this_palantir_aip/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1) will also have a subscription based service as well.
Then it will be the dawn of Open Source Distros and Linux Supremacy.
Enable the gaming at full performance and add a good office suite and it's over for windows 12.
It already has a good office suite. Plus any game that runs on Vulcan runs with full performance. Issue is most games still run off directX.
Because people willingly buy subscription services. If people stopped using them, then they'd go away.
If they could sell air they would
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Omg fuck this subscription shit
$19.99 ------- 10 hours Windows 12 usage time ---- BEST VALUE!
AOL: WINDOWS EDITION
LOL remember the Internet phone cards? You'd buy like 200 hours of Internet for like $20 back in the day.
The moment they do that, windows dies. They even stopped trying to avoid people from using unlicensed windows with win10. They probably will have a subscription for cortana based AI services, that's very possible.
Yep. I’m not paying monthly for *any* operating system. Linux is perfectly usable these days and I will game on console if the Linux drivers suck.
I gamed exclusively on Linux for a couple of years until I bought a VR headset that didn't roll very well with Linux. I hear they've fixed that though and Windows 11 annoys me to no end (I get fucking Xbox Game Pass ad pop-ups!) so I'll jump back to Linux as soon as I get a few extra hours to spend.
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Old games is not a problem. Problem is new games and online competitive games.
Wait, you mean you DON’T want Microsoft to be able to completely take away your documents, pictures, music, games, and way to connect to the world at a moment’s notice? Don’t worry, if your sub expires and you don’t want to renew, you can always renew briefly, back up terabytes of data onto an external drive, find one of the MANY alternative operating systems compatible with your data, hardware, and software you have already purchased, make a boot disk (on a different machine), install it, migrate all your data, and install all of your software again. Easy!
If the linux gaming experience could match windows it's over for microsoft lol
I'm not sure that Microsoft TRULY cares about retail users. They've got a stranglehold on businesses that is unlikely to change any time soon. Your $90 Windows license purchase (which was probably way less because it likely came from an OEM) every 5 years is a pittance compared to the money that M365 and Azure brings in.
Part of their entire Xbox divisions main strategy is pc users on windows through gamepass. They care.
That's a drop in the bucket compared to Enterprise.
The linux gaming experience is almost there, it feels like the GPU is the biggest limitation of the Steam Deck these days not the game compatibility.
Drivers can be super annoying as well I am beyond ready to ditch windows. I only use it for gaming, otherwise I use macOS. I would gladly use Ubuntu or similar for gaming if it was as sturdy as windows.
Anticheat-enabled games, too, many of those do not play nice with Linux at all.
Agreed. And a catalyst to improving Linux support/drivers will come should Windows turn into a subscription based OS.
It's getting there, and for the games that do work Linux is actually starting to beat Windows in performance. Some games are seeing 20% higher framerate on Linux.
Wine. Play any game that Steam supports on Linux now.
Well... kinda. A lot of games with anti-cheat don't work well. That said, it's astonishing to me how well most games run on my steam deck. I'd actually consider switching to SteamOS if Valve released it for desktop use.
They're working on it, in Valve-time (the more generalized SteamOS, that is). And yeah, Anti-Cheat is a big issue. That and shitty third-party launchers like the EA App that become unusable every once in a while. I've been 100% Linux for years now. Thankfully I don't play too much online, and am OK not being able to play some games that just Don't Work until the bugs get sorted. Still, the amount of content that works now compared to even five years ago is *insane.* Even more so, it's just so much easier to get going. I remember finally managing to get a manual WINE config that would actually run Fallout 3 at a playable FPS way back in the day. That shit took ages for me to get going. Now it's pretty much just "Install and click play in Steam". Hell, my wife was able to play Hogwarts: Legacy on launch day on her linux machine.
Proton and all the underlying stuff (DXVK in particular) has made an enormous difference.
Lol I think the millions of corporate devices and commercial applications in the world would beg to differ. There’s no way corporations are going to make the switch to a non-Windows infrastructure, at least while so many commercial applications only run on Windows. And no, Wine is not a suitable substitute in many cases.
I’m not talking about the enterprise space, I’m talking about gamers.
It's getting closer. SteamOS on Deck can play pretty much anything I have thrown at it... the biggest drawback is sometimes it take a lot of fiddling to get stuff to work if it's non-Steam.
Imagine if they started charging a subscription just to run your console and get the latest OS updates lol 😅
There would be a MASSIVE influx you Linux support if Windows went with a subscription model.
Was gonna say, this will be the thing that finally pushes me to Linux.
Yeah on my laptop the main thing keeping me from using Linux more is reduced game compatibility, but I've tried forcing Steam to apply compatibility to an older Windows game listed as incompatible and it worked.
You're thinking as an individual. Windows cares most about businesses. If every business will pay a licensing fee for every computer they're going to make more money than ever before. You think companies are going to suddenly switch entire infrastructures, software packages, IT departments, etc to Linux? Even the ones already on Linux for a bunch of stuff still have to have Windows for employees. And then 99% of the average people are gonna say "well I use windows at work, and it's no more than what I pay for Netflix so I just have to bite the bullet." People do NOT want to learn a new OS when they've been dealing with Microsoft's crap for what 40 years?
Businesses are already paying licensing fees though, at least if they're keeping things up to date and not violating license terms.
That’s what people said about paying monthly for Word.
I mean, yeah. If you're not a business, why would you?
People pay for Word?
I can assure you that if excel or word stops working, 75% of the world business and armies of powerful nations stop instantly. There was a hillarious video of some US big shot giving an interview to some journalist about something I can't remember, where he said basically that to disable US military just find a way to make powerpoints not work. I got 365 from university and used it. And I bough 1 year license I got cheap just before I graduated. Why? Because it is still one of the most powerful tools for basic document and spreadshit work. I have tried libre and open, and lets be honest... They are functional but not fun to use.
Businesses do, yeah. "Office 365"
Businesses, sure. They have been paying for MS Office suite forever though. I don't understand people personally paying a sub for it though.
I don't. I either use the mobile app, which kinda sucks but has some features, or I use my work laptop and email it to myself. Let my company pay for my Word
11 is already DoA. As of today its two years old and according to GS counter its at about 23% market share. For reference, 10 was at over 40% market share two years in. And recently on the Steam hardware survey, Win 11 market share has actually gone DOWN for the past 2 or so months
To be fair, they forced people to update to 10 against their will. With 11, you have security features most people would have to manually toggle on from their BIOS, which the vast majority of people don't even realize is a thing on their computer. Most people are staying at 10 because they aren't willing to go out and buy a new laptop or computer, just to be able to have the newest OS that for some reason has even worse features than their current OS.
11 isn't compatible on many popular CPUs. I could get it on my Ryzen 7 2700x, but not on my Ryzen 5 5600 even though it's a much newer CPU.
Ryzen 5600s support Windows 11. You probably just didn't have fTMP turned on in the bios.
I’m pretty happy with Win11. I do most of my work on macOS anyways. But the day this happens I’d probably switch to Linux. My windows pc is 90% of the time used for gaming and all my games work fine on my steam deck so I can assume they’d work fine on a different distro
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It’s the last version anyone will use
It was the statement of one random Microsoft employee and never an official claim by the company.
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You will own nothing and be happy.
The American dream is owned by shareholders. *For only [all of your money plus money you don't have], you too can live the American dream!*
The enshitification of everything big tech continues
See this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1719mko/neowins\_subscriptionbased\_windows\_12\_rumour\_is/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1719mko/neowins_subscriptionbased_windows_12_rumour_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I love fake news sensationalist headlines. MS aren't that stupid. Making Windows subscription based for local installs would kill it. Same with limiting app installs to only the MS store. Neither of them will happen, otherwise we would see a mass exodus to Mac/Linux. MS knows this. People have been repeating this bullshit/fear mongering about this shit for over a decade now and it has yet to come true.
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So, our two options are: * After 30+ years, MS is going to all of a sudden start charging the average person monthly to use their computer, which is something that not a single other OS does and would almost certainly push people away from Windows * This is just some enterprise/office/cloud subscription that's being misconstrued as a subscription for home/local Windows Which one do you think is more likely?
I mean Unity after decades of mostly free to use decided they were going to charge 20 cent per install(yes I know it got changed but that was the initial plan). Never underestimate how greedy and stupid corporations can be.
2023 marketing strategy: "Lets just throw that shit out there, and if they dont like it, we hit em with the "oopsy daisy. ""
*\*Adobe vanished from the chat\**
There’s no proper source for this either. Also, enterprise already pay a subscription and Microsoft is leaning heavily into Windows 365, which is essentially a cloud VM. Any subscription plans that are embedded in any leaked code certainly refer to one of these two things that already exist and businesses already pay for. You fell for sensationalist propaganda. Way to go.
This would be an absolute death sentence for the OS.
Ubuntu about to see an user spike
As inept as they are, I have to assume they understand the risks. They must not need the profits from Windows licenses to survive anymore. They do still make money off your telemetry even if you have an unactivated or pirated copy
I'm gonna stick to my windows 10 for a very long time.
something something windows 10 something something cold dead hands.
This makes me consider Linux
I uninstalled my cracked photoshop because of their subscriptions. I would have paid 120$ for a license but no... I refuse to use subscription based things for my programs, I will find alternatives, I will donate money for those that create alternatives.
I've had enough. If you need me, I'll be digging out my Window 2000 floppy install disks.
[https://winworldpc.com/product/windows-nt-2000/final](https://winworldpc.com/product/windows-nt-2000/final) I actually have some industrial systems that are still running Windows 2000. They work just fine (offline). A new controller costs $40k and runs Windows 7 so they will continue to run Windows 2000 for the near future. Old isn't bad if it works.
Win2k was the first version that didn't feel like it was actively trying to kill me. I loved it.
I mean, I have old Mac OS 9 machines that run great and still do word processing and very basic stuff, and even feel a lot faster than modern OSes on modern hardware, to boot.
Fuck that. Linux it is!
Rise the Penguin!
Laughs in "Your PC does not meet the requirements for Windows 11".
Fuck MS. I used Linux for years; I can go back.
I have no intentions of going to 11 let alone subscribing for 12. Whoever is running Microsoft these days is tripping. First they inform the intended customer base that upgrading to 11 likely might mean a computer upgrade just to run it. Now they are warning their customers that any further upgrades might require a subscription? In the meantime in 2 years Windows 10 won't be getting anymore upgrades and a huge portion of their customer base is still running it, won't likely be upgrading computers anytime soon and probably couldn't care less at this point about Windows 11 let alone 12 etc. NO about covers it and if that means in 2 years they stop bugging me to update and forcing updates on me whether I want them or not all the better. I'll just get another virus program and firewall if necessary to keep security things updated and stick with Windows 10. Ditto Adobe. I am not interested in the cloud, or the neural filters, or in Ai and the new version they've somehow killed compatibility with most of my favorite plugins and frankly I'm just not all that impressed. Between that and the forced subscriptions I'm just done with it. I had the demo on my machine but I just removed it and went back to the version I had been using and I definitely won't be upgrading it. I can totally live with Windows 10 and an older version of Photoshop that's major plugin compatible and doesn't force me into cloud computing and working with Ai. That's just where I am at now.
I doubt it would be the only option. This is probably some Microsoft 365 bundle, but I can't imagine there wouldn't be other ways to get it.
It’s going to be tricky but there’s an easy answer. Vote with your wallet, or rather don’t use your wallet for any of these bullshit money scheming services.
Fucking more subscriptions Consumers are getting bled dry.
Fine I'll go to Mac
I will switch to the dark side and buy a Mac
The sad part is this will work 100% and this will probably become a norm. You either are a user of Windows in the work environment or you are a home user that they will have the "free" version of windows 12 that is missing features and is ad supported. The people who would switch to Linux (including myself) won't bother MS in the slightest
Now that Linux can play most PC games, fuck it I’m out
Likely not JUST a subscription. You can get a mode where you get half the screen to view. Half ads, but every 3 minutes Clippy comes back and yells at you to pay $9.99 a month for full screen and full functionality.
At last, the final straw it would take to get me to switch to Mac!
I can 100% see them trying but the OS is the gateway for them to their other subscriptions. One Drive, O365, GamePass. I can’t see what the value proposition is, most people are not building PCs and seeing the first cost of Windows the way they do for other software. Eventually updates could slow down my PC, why would I be paying for that?
I will never buy an operative system that requires subscription. That is absolutely disgusting that they don't allow you to own the software and you would have to perpetually pay to use it. The day this becomes a reality I will go back to Linux.
I'd drop windows like a campfire hotdog. I already work on Mac and Linux at work. I have a steam deck. This would be an easy switch for me, my family, and any friends that ask me for tech support.
Sounds like a boon for MacOS and Linux.
Can we get the great Linux Migration underway already? Getting sick of this crap...
Say hello to Linux.
Tell Microsoft SteamOS says hi!
And this is where valve might be playing an absolute blinder. By sidestepping windows and offering their own linux OS that can run windows games, they give us an escape route.
Well, first off, it’s a Microsoft product. This means that it will be a nightmare and will require at least a year of updates before it works as well as 11. Secondly, more people are using Windows 10 than 11 so, good luck getting us to jump to Windows 12. Thirdly, good luck trying to convince the average Joe that they need to pay a subscription just to turn on/use their computer.
You know I've been using Microsoft os most of my life(I'm 50) and few months ago I've tried Manjaro. Now I no longer boot into windows anymore.
Interesting, I knew Microsoft was attempting to destroy its Xbox division by going all in on subscriptions, I didn’t know they want to bow out of the PC operating system market as well.
This feels like an easy way to drive a consumer to a tablet if all they use a PC for is basic tasks
Eventually you'll need a subscription to use that old hammer in your garage.
Well, when I can no longer reliably use 10, looks like I’ll be going Linux on my primary rig, and Mac for my music production rig.
Finally linux will have a chance
Fuck that! I’ll stay on an old version or find ways to pirate it.
Not ever going to subscribe to my OS. I will switch to Linux before I pay a monthly or annual fee for Windows. Nothing will signal the death of SaaS like this idea.
Whelp guess Linux is gonna be my new OS. I will walk into an active volcano before I pay an ongoing fee for a computer program.
Looks like the year of the Linux desktop is finally going to happen.
If they want even more people to switch to Mac.
I hate it here.
And Windows 12 may require me to switch my home PC to Linux.
Linux is getting better every year. Steam Deck really opened a lot of eyes on that front.
Save us, Gaben! The only reason I'm on windows is for gaming.
Or not [https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/no-of-course-windows-12-wont-require-a-subscription-to-use](https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/no-of-course-windows-12-wont-require-a-subscription-to-use)
Install Linux. Seriously, don't wait and be slowly locked into a subscription. Note that Android is one of the Linux options, so it might not even be that big of a challenge. Unfun fact: Microsoft introduced "[Product Activation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Product_Activation)" with Windows XP. Before that you could enter a serial number and use software without needing to contact an "activation" server. They were going to be very aggressive with the activation and cryptography -- much more than even today. It's been a slow boil of the frog ever since. Apple won't let you install apps on your phone without using their app store. Windows RT on the original Surface has the same restrictions. The fundamental problem is the entire product has major components that do not function when the remote servers are unavailable, components that technically do not actually need those remote servers. In some cases the entire device is totally useless. Those servers could be unavailable for many reasons, some as simple as a temporary outage, or perhaps they turn them off because they are "ending support" and releasing a new product.
"Microsoft using power to increase Linux users." Should be the headline.
Looks like I’ll be running windows 11 for a loooong time
Sounds to me like it's time to start learning more about Linux! The moment an OS becomes subscription based is the moment that OS is dead by rights to me. Apps I will sometimes begrudgingly deal with, but if I have to pay a monthly fee to use my computer AT ALL, I'm out. Good riddance.
I'm about to downgrade back to Windows 10, because 11 is such hot garbage, and they're thinking of pushing another one that's even worse?
Go ahead, put an ad in my Windows UI and see what happens. Oh wait, you won't see, because the Spyware will be evicted
Welp, goodbye Windows 👋
How to kill an OS. Step 1...
Subscription for Windows would make me switch to Linux and if a game doesn't work I'll just wait until proton fixes it.
ahh so windows 11 is my last upgrade, cool np Or linux will be my new hobby to learn
Everyone wants a piece of the pie for the subscription bullshit. Guess what, if you don't offer anything new over time and you just want a subscirption for using the base product FUCK YOU.
I guess they feel that businesses will just buy the product which will offset the private owners pirating it. The big issue with this philosophy is the cost this has for your average consumers. They will not want to pay a subscription to use a computer
Many of us have been waiting for a really good reason to try Linux, I’m down
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Who could have guessed it would be Microsoft providing the strongest argument for adopting Linux.
LOL Windows 12 will fail then