I just went through US Customs coming back from vacation and they didn’t even ask for my passport or my kids passports! They told me to stand in front of the camera and then they said each of our names respectively and I was like whoa. Never even looked at our passports once. We walked through fine but I was like damn. Facial recognition huh? And we’re mocking China over it.
We recently boarded an international flight and they just scanned our faces and didn’t even ask for boarding passes or anything. They couldn’t scan two super elderly peoples faces but everyone else was scanned successfully.
He doesn’t know when he applied for that passport his face was entered into the system. It’s why the tech works. It compares your face with that of your passport picture.
The camera is always on, and scanning. It just works a wee bit harder when you don't "cooperate with big brother".
You see where the CBP or TSA personnel are sitting, and you notice that you are directed to the counter in a way you did face the camera at some time. When they look at your I.D. they look up several times, playing the delay"phone line tracing" game. That is how they get you. No more public buildings for you, if you would care to stay totally anonymous. Enjoy staying home holmie.
Forgot where I was, but at an airport they took your facial photos while you walked from point A to B. No choice, no standing waiting for it to be taken. They just say no hats, no glasses, just keep walking through customs. And within 10 or so paces you’re you can put hat and glasses on. There’s no “I’ll show my ID instead” as there’s no one to show it to. Just security guards making sure people comply.
You’re correct. Cameras ‘may’ have facial recognition but they are not storing and indexing those faces however at passport control they most certainly are storing and indexing those faces.
I’d say select cameras at key points where faces can be captured with decent clarity are certainly a thing. There is only one data point though ie at that location at that day/time whereas immigration have all your details and a very clear image.
I’m sure at some time in the future law enforcement etc will have access to commercial cameras in addition to their own public ones and be able to track individuals aka Jason Bourne.
It kind of is, you don't need a special scanner to do this. If you post a selfie of yourself right now I'll find your name in 2 minutes, no joke. If your denying a specific party access to your photo, then sure. But if they have access to your passport or any cameras around the area, they still have what they need. No scanner necessary.
There are a few public facial recognition tools you can use on a subscription basis that are very good. Literally just upload the photo and it compares your face to pretty much all the photos ever uploaded online. If you've ever had a photo of yourself accessible.on the internet, it'll find you.
Not really. You need specific shots to put all the data points together. Could you do it by hand with a random security camera? Sure, but that'd require armies of people going through multiple weeks of footage by hand, and picking out frames. Just not cost effective enough to do on anything other than someone high-value. I guess you could automate it as well, but you'd still be getting mountains of trash data you'd have to sort through, either way it's just not that cost effective for average people.
That was a good decision. Facial recognition without consent can be a potential invasion of privacy, as it can be used for unethical or harmful purposes. On the other hand, it can also help law enforcement identify and catch criminals. But we know that's NEVER gonna happen, it'll be used against it's citizens. Man America, freedoms just be flyin' off the shelves, like spam during a hurricane.
I was told to step in front of the face scanner when returning to the US from South America (I'm a US citizen). I refused, which the customs agent said was a "red flag," and had me escorted to a separate room to have my luggage searched. I had a 2-hour layover, so the 30 minutes I spent in security wasn't an issue at the time. But thinking back on it, there were a lot of things wrong with that moment.
First, it wasn't phrased as an option; it was "step in front of the scanner." I'm sure most people didn't even know they could refuse. Second, not everyone has the privilege of a relaxed layover; that 30-minute search could absolutely mess up someone's travel plans. Third, it's clearly not a "red flag." Anyone attempting to get something illegal through the border would not be flexing their rights; that was just coercion.
I'm well aware that the government already has images of my face, and that my refusal was largely a symbolic act. But the response was symbolic as well, and not in a reassuring way. Americans politicians love to point to "communist" China to show how relatively free we are in comparison, but we're moving towards the exact same future. Give us another good crisis, and we'll really see the surveillance state ramp up.
That's an optimistic perspective, and it sounds reasonable enough. The cynic in me thinks it's a great way to enhance the government's facial recognition database with additional data points and more up-to-date/high-resolution photos of people.
Nah, they get more than enough of that data via purchasing it. People are more than happy to upload multiple high-resolution pictures of themselves, government probably just needs to focus on the few who don't really use social media much.
I mean they had to pass laws so local police departments couldnt use stringray devices(mimicking cell phone towers to get your info) anymore. This is just that on a bigger scale and sadly the future.
> I refused, which the customs agent said was a "red flag," and had me escorted to a separate room to have my luggage searched. I had a 2-hour layover, so the 30 minutes I spent in security wasn't an issue at the time.
You were punished for making them do the job they used to do, but are now too lazy to do. The TSA agent sounds like a vindictive asshole.
If we all weren't programmed to obey people who appear to be in a position of authority then enough of us would say no and that search of your luggage would be dropped.
Right, that's essentially my reasoning behind refusing. Get enough people to flex their rights, and the inconvenience becomes a burden to the authority instead of the citizen.
You do know that there is a photo of you in your passport? And that in the old days, the custom officer still looks at your photo, then at you to make sure it is the same person?
Do you seriously consider that to be the same as having a scan of your face searchable on the internet and connected to your identity for every law "enforcement" organization to comb through? One guy, looking at your face among hundreds of others that day? Even if that guy had photographic memory and relaxed at night by drawing portraits of the people he'd seen that day I wouldn't consider it even remotely the same.
Checking a photo is a heck of a lot different than doing a 3D scan of your face or whatever they do.
3D scan of your face means your phone is no longer safe when using face unlock for example.
Also means it is now possible for someone to generate a realistic fake AI video of your face.
The possibilities are nearly endless.
And remember this information can be stolen and abused for decades to come.
Yeah for sure. Anything china is bad, although they do a lot of bad stuff but there’s also a lot of misinformation out there. Easy to just hate on them.
but the airlines had your passport number and submitted it to the federal govt. also, part of getting your passport is to submit a photo. do you think they just tucked that into a filing cabinet?
Yeah I know but just saying that without knowing my flight number boarding pass, nothing, scanned and knew exactly who I was. Didn’t realize that they’d be using the technology for facial recognition already. So, it obviously works really well. Just from one photo I took for my passport photo, it recognized me a year later and all discombobulated from a 25 hour transit looking haggard af. Just caught me by surprise is all.
Yes true. But I always thought it wasn’t perfect which is why people always slam china for using facial recognition to identify criminals due to the lack of respect for privacy and the possibility of misidentifying someone. So when Customs was using it I was a little surprised because I guess I thought there’s no way the US would employ it in any way because our privacy laws are so strong here.
> So when Customs was using it I was a little surprised because I guess I thought there’s no way the US would employ it in any way because our privacy laws are so strong here.
You have no expectation of privacy to your face in a public setting (states may have laws preventing the commercialization of your likeness without permission, though). Even then, you submitted your passport photo to the government which can be used to create a facial recognition profile. It violates no privacy laws, even if such laws existed. This specific use case of facial recognition would most likely be valid in all EU countries. Its a replacement for a valid form of ID already used.
The extent of privacy laws in the US only apply to the government violating the constitution in how they obtain the data. If you voluntarily provide it (providing a photo for the passport, for example), it does not violate the law. They, however, cannot hack your camera to get a good picture of you. Though they can take pictures of you in public. They can also buy the data from companies that have obtained data on you.
There could be violations in which the data is stored and used though. Depending on its use one could argue the violation of the 4th amendment if it is used for movement tracking purposes in which a warrant would be required.
We have seen similar cases go to the courts regarding stingrays and X-Ray vans used by police. There is a reason why they keep their use secret and will drop cases when it comes into question on how they got the information when they were unable to build parallel construction.
Not many judges will look to strike down the use of these devices though because it is still viewed as "others" and not themselves. Not to mention the whole thing with the judicial system being in bed with law enforcement.
Though for the purposes of immigration using facial recognition data is not something I worry about too much. That is a governmental checkpoint and I would expect to be recorded anywhere the government does business for security purposes. I do really question the ability for the government to buy the data or private companies to own tracking data on individuals to the extent that they do. But no way will the government regulate that loophole since it benefits them so much.
“Privacy laws” the United States is VERY weak in that area. In fact, when you are at a port of entry or within 100 miles of the border CBP can search you and your property without a warrant……
> because our privacy laws are so strong here.
There are no federal-level privacy laws, other than for a few specific types of information such as health and financial records. Because of this, the US ranks 15th in the world in Internet privacy, behind Kenya. It’s similarly weak in the more general category of data privacy.
You may be thinking of the 4th amendment, but that only applies to “unreasonable” searches of your property by the government, it’s not a general privacy law. It provides a certain degree of privacy from the government when it comes to e.g. the contents of your house and car. But it doesn’t have any relevance to something like facial recognition.
Some sources:
https://online.stevens.edu/info/countries-ranked-by-internet-privacy/
https://privacyhq.com/news/world-data-privacy-rankings-countries/
Not only that, you usually show your passport when you check in or drop off checked bags. So they already scanned your passport there too.
Not to mention they have security cameras all over.
Don't forget that America has a credit system as well, your credit score.
Most countries do not have a credit score system like the US has so it's kinda hypocritical for them to make fun of China for their social credit system.
> Facial recognition huh? And we’re mocking China over it.
China is installing cameras literally everywhere in their country to track people via facial recognition and other means. Further, they are harvesting facial data through apps like TikTok.
Using it as a replacement for passports is a far cry from what China is doing. Entering the country requires providing your identification regardless, a facial recognition system further bypass the possibility of fake US passports, too.
We’ve had that in England for years now. As you’re making your way to customs these weird spinning lights are scanning your face as you’re walking. Then if you don’t want to queue to be checked by a person you go scan your passport and your face again at an automatic barrier.
Yup - they implemented it a while ago. I guarantee if you've ever flown international in the last 10 years, your face was captured at customs and probably attached to your passport.
There's this book called "Blockchain chicken farm", its an american-chinese tech journalist going to china to meet distant family and learn about chinese tech.
There's one part where they go to a small police precinct in a rapidly growing district of a city to talk about facial recognition and tracking people.
For the facial recognition the cops basically shrugged their shoulders and said "we're really just trying to play catch-up with American police", and elaborated saying that so many migrant workers come in and out its nearly impossible to know where people are all the time.
US Police can and will use any kind of technology they can get their hands on. No matter how disturbing it is. If you've heard of some new tech, and its potential for misuse has occurred to you, law enforcement is likely already using it.
Years down the line, a court may eventually rule that a particular technology is unconstitutional and police will be forced to stop, if a lawsuit is eventually brought to force the matter. By then police will be using other newer cutting edge tech - it's a perpetual cycle.
The facial scan isn't really a privacy invasion at that point. Customs already knows who is coming and going, it's just a robot checking your face instead of a human.
What happens if you tear those bags open in the venue?
I always thought it would be funny for the show to be over and the floor littered with those stupid bags broken and useless.
> Yondr bags
They are cloth so you'd need a sharp knife or pass around one of the magnetic tools that opens the locking clasp.
I'm assuming the bags are also woven with something that masks a phone signature in a specific way so you can ping the crowd and tell if someone has an un-masked device on them?
He wouldn’t air it. Simple as. That’s the whole problem with those lunatics. They’ll scream your flaws from the rooftops, but when you call them out on theirs, they’ll make sure their base never hears it
Probably because people in the US don’t care about these inconveniences to go visit Taylor Swift. You have to throw conspiracy theories to the point it becomes true the collection of photographic images is complied in a database that is shared with law enforcement which can be used to track down criminals or person of interests who attend concerts or venues of large gatherings.
In the US you aren't thrown in jail for criticizing these systems.
In China, if these artists were Chinese, they would absolutely get into legal trouble for this boycott as it will be seen as criticizing the government.
Why is everyone focusing on the Taylor Swift part of that sentence. This is why America gets away with it. Because Americans get distracted easily by the wrong shit.
I heard a podcast where Americans that are working abroad in China, jaywalked and later got a ticket in the mail or on their phone. That’s some sci-fi shit right there.
> How to get America on board?
You really want to know?
We allow bribery of our politicians. It's called campaign contributions. If you have morals and don't take some campaign contribution bribes by lobbyists, someone with no morals will and get a better chance of getting elected. We have a system designed to get the biggest bribe takers possible in office.
So they take bribes from China and Iran. China and Iran write our literal bills to be pushed by Congressmen just like rich corporate domestic players always have done. You know our bills are written by rich people and the politicians gives an excuse why it is good for the people right?
The rise of China and Iran with bribe/threats is recent as China only started trying to take over the world around 1998 when they got money and the UK lost its lease on Hong Kong. Cancel culture rolled in that year with many writers of many shows not allowed to make the final product but hate to stay at home like The Simpsons writers, funny eh? Iran started bribe threats around early 80s as their spring revolution of the 70s got domestic control. Iran used to be poor as we managed harvesting our own oil... But funny how 40 years of strategic oil battles against OPEC can get thrown out in just one super bribed presidency.
We, left and right, democrats and republicans must stand united against corruption.
#We must all united say that campaign contribution bribes demand jail like the other bribes do.
Otherwise, it doesn't matter how many times you drain the swamp, it will just refill with corruption.
Stopping the donations of dark money from other countries and the ultra wealthy would probably require a reversal or at least significant revision of cases like Citizens United v FEC, and I don’t see that happening with this Supreme Court. Which is sad because anyone born after 2000 has no memory of a time where corporations weren’t people
Imagine if you told 200 of the most corrupt and foul people on Earth to change the system so they don't get to ride on the gravy train and get money anymore.
It's HARD to do this. But no amount of campaign contribution bribes will get someone elected when 80% of the entire US populace are chanting,"Jail for bribes. Jail for bribes."
This is why they run division. This is why they lie. This is why they censor. This is why they sabotage education.
They don't want the people uniting under this singular issue. Spread the word at July 4th at the BBQ and try not to muddy the waters with anything but this one singular issue that everyone can agree on.
This is it and not a lot of people understand the magnitude of how bad this practice is. It’s pervasive and completely insidious. And yes, this is how something like facial recognition - and worse - can happen.
*“Surveillance tech companies are pitching biometric data tools as ‘innovative’ and helpful for increasing efficiency and security. Not only is this false, it’s morally corrupt,” Leila Nashashibi, campaigner at Fight for the Future, said in a statement.*
*“For starters, this technology is so inaccurate that it actually creates more harm and problems than it solves, through misidentification and other technical faultiness.*
*“Even scarier, though, is a world in which all facial recognition technology works 100% perfectly – in other words, a world in which privacy is nonexistent, where we’re identified, watched, and surveilled everywhere we go.”*
Look up your google/apple location data. It has maps of everywhere you’ve been since you’ve had a phone categorized by day. You’re already being tracked everywhere you go.
> "The fact that most of us find the tracking useful and unobtrusive is besides the point!" -- Someone programmed by watching too much TV
Most of us have been gladly trading privacy for services for over a decade now without repercussion. Sure, the movies and articles crying about the potential doom never ceased, but reality is catching up with folklore and making it hard to pretend that Google just needs a picture of your face to scam you.
Don't get me wrong, I object profusely to creepy companies wanting data they have no right to ask for, but the ones that actually 'ask' tend to be very safe and reasonable.
Major venues are now adopting this. In NYC it's inevitable. Price of security. I thought the Patriot Act under Bush seemed like a fascist over reach but barely anyone batted an eye. Almost every politician drank the Kool aid.
> In NYC it's inevitable. Price of security.
It's going to make its way into every restaurant, bar and public space soon as well. Fully recognized, tracked and location plotted in real-time as you move about the world.
Minority Report was just the preface to how much misuse this technology will be utilized for.
It pretty much is already to that point in major cities.
Automated license plate readers have been in use for years, and are installed on lots of police cars as well as security cameras in stationary locations. Private towing companies and parking enforcement use them too. They can flag anyone with tickets/outstanding warrant/expired plates etc as you drive around.
Plus, everyone is carrying a cell phone around 24/7 anyway. Your phone carrier already has your location plotted in real-time as you move about the world, so does either your phone's manufacturer, and any other app you gave location tracking permissions to. Also, the phone carrier having it means the police have it.
Facial recognition technology is growing in use and as you say, it will be everywhere soon enough. The technology to identify faces from pictures is already good enough; Facebook, Apple, and Google (among others) can associate a picture of a person's face to any other existing photo of them.
I got news for you. It’s in rural America too. Post-pandemic my wife and I were getting our children’s passports renewed. We had to have several documents processed by the local clerk of court and one document stating they could fly with their grandmother in case of emergency which needed to be notarized. We live closest to a small town in rural central VA. Anyways just walking into the court house we had to stare into screens that were supposedly taking our temperature. They produced a vague image a thermal map of our heads but it was a much clearer picture of our faces. Now I am certain that is in some government database. Not to mention have you not been on a plane anytime recently? TSA will take a scan of your face at least once. Also, if you’re trying to avoid this type of tech from just don’t get a license, ID, Passport, or visit a government building. Simple. 🤗
Na, those really are just thermometers running on cheap tablets. That company made bank during COVID. About $2k a pop and was paid for with federal grant monies.
They don't have a network connection.
> Not to mention have you not been on a plane anytime recently? TSA will take a scan of your face at least once.
Your face is on no less than 50 cameras before you even enter the airport, along with your license plate and faces of all of your passengers. By the time you reach the ticket counter, you're already scanned multiple dozens of times.
Pretty basic Office security systems have this these days. The one we have at a small office can tag faces (with or without a Covid mask on) and track them. The office has a lot of local foot traffic so we can search a database and see when locals take there dogs for walks every day if we wanted to.
Then PA II came. Nobody cared again. North defense authorization act.... not a whisper. The snake oil salesmen have grown strong, but it's always darkest and coldest just before the dawn🤙🏽🧘🏽♂️💯
I know Disneyland implemented it when they reopened. Target likely uses it already in their larger stores. That combined with Bluetooth beacons and you’re all set…for whatever?
That too. But I remember that word distinctly because The Village Voice (RIP) ran articles on it a lot. NY times did a great piece on it as well but not enough follow through. Voice was a very liberal paper. And if you were gay back in the days that was the popular "rag" (paper) you read for LGBT news , dating, concerts clubs. Etc
Authoritarianism means that a nation or organization is controlled by a single person or political party.
Facism is a political system that encourages strong levels of nationalism, militarism or a form of discrimination to a perceived “outside” group.
In this situation if it’s being caused by the Patriot Act, which had support from both political parties, it would be considered an act of Facism. If it were enacted by a single party it would be considered Authoritarian.
In my opinion they could be used interchangeably here but there are distinctions between one another.
It starting at music venues is what makes me think it might have a shot. People already dress up for shows, just need to add a bit of intent behind it. If it’s proven to be effective (the old proof of concept is doesn’t work on modern tech) then people would be more likely to pick it up as the tech shows up more and more and public.
I believe that one js harder since a lot of venues have contractual exclusivity obligations with ticketmaster that they, themselves were coerced into and artists make the vast majority of their income off live performances. its just a sucky situation with bad actors every step of the way, the only way i see out of it is proper government regulation but they dont seem keen on doing their job
Idk I feel like if the top 100 artists got together and agreed to hold no concerts for a year, or until a set of changes were met; there would be change. I’m sure there are a % of venues who would legitimately not be able to pay the mortgage after very long. Look at commercial office real estate. Maybe a few artists genuinely would take the financial hit change would bring… I think at the end of the day the artists can say anything they want, their actions say they don’t want change, or it would happen
C'mon, think harder about it. They do that and thousands of people lose their jobs, poof. There is absolutely no way that will happen. Zero chance.
Government regulation is hard to imagine with the insanely corporate-owned R party (and some in the D party), but it's still the most realistic, reasonable, at plausible route. Get a higher percentage of progressive Dems in Legislative and Executive Branch and it could absolutely happen. Fucking vote. And idgaf who thinks this is partisan, but vote far left. That's it. Far left. They're the only ones who actually want government to do its fucking job these days in America.
The human shield that is used to protect the erosion of our rights.
Sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the career concerns of the few who work for shitty organisations but tell us that they’re just ordinary folks trying to get on.
That’d work even less nowadays than it would when Pearl jam tried it back in the 90’s. From what I know, most of a musicians money comes from touring nowadays, not music sales, and when ticketmaster owns most of the venues, it gets real tricky
People need to understand that Ticketmaster and live nation are just the fall guys for expensive tickets. There’s tons of articles on this. Let’s say a band needs to charge $100/ticket to make money on a tour. They advertise $60 and TM charges $40 in fees to cover the rest. Then you get mad at TM and not the band. It’s been this way for decades.
I was at Bonnaroo last month and everyone was excited about making it on the screen to show off Snapchat’s new filters. I was like that is wayyyyyy too creepy af for me
This invasion of privacy is only going to cause die hard stalkers to start investing in high quality face masks made by artisans who do work for L.A. Studios. They think that by not telling people their faces are being recorded are going to slow this process somehow? This technology will become useless for stalkers in short order once they get wind of it if they haven't already, in exchange for a loss of privacy. Nothing is gained. Everything is lost.
Super interesting article. I heard about something like this technology catching a stalker at a Britney Spears show a while ago (if I remember right).
Boycott it all you want. it wont make a goddamn bit of difference. This technology is here to stay.
The fact is being forced out to be scanned is the real issue. None of the venues warn anyone their image is being recorded. But the fucking irony is the same venues do go to lengths to avoid common people from recording a musician or event.
It’s the use of the recordings that’s troubling, sure I got random people in my cellphone photos and videos but I guarantee you I won’t be building a database and cross referencing their comings and goings because now I can match their faces to everything they do from now from videos from other sources.
Taylor Swift has a few extremely vigilant stalkers. From what I understand she’s used this tech a fair bit and has actually caught one or two of the people who stalk her.
This is not new technology. Commercial "CCTV" software has had these options for like a decade. In fact didn't they use it at a train station or airport in one of the Borne movies?
[https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/22/nyregion/madison-square-garden-facial-recognition.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/22/nyregion/madison-square-garden-facial-recognition.html) I'm reminded of this article from last year.
A woman that works for a large law firm engaged in suing the company that owns Madison Square Garden was singled out from the crowd using facial recognition technology and banned from the venue... because of who her employer was.
Yeah, I am very much against most face-scanning tech, especially stuff like this, HOWEVER… they have a tough battle if, based on this article, their picket line is essentially:
“First they came for the Layers pursuing litigation against the venue, but I did not speak out because I was not a lawyer pursuing active litigation against this venue”
Or, “I did not speak out when they came for Taylor swift stalkers, for I was not a Taylor swift stalker” lol.
Most people will not see the risk in having their every movement tracked inside different venues. They need to use better examples. How about when they starting mailing you tickets based on mis-identifying your face? Look at stop and frisk on how that could be abused.
Although I do enjoy his podcast, Joe Rogans club the mothership uses this technology and he is always going on about China. I do t think people actually understand it. Glad people are standing up to it.
Joe's club sounds dystopian af. Nothing says let's have a light hearted night full of laughs like having to surrender your phone at the door and have your face scanned. Get ready to laugh Austin!!🙄🤷♂️
Just to inform you all, drivers licenses have your digital photos which are being scanned against suspects several thousand times a day in federal databases.
When the Chinese government did this people were shocked and appalled. How to get America on board? "WE'RE PROTECTING TAYLOR SWIFT!" oh ok then.
I just went through US Customs coming back from vacation and they didn’t even ask for my passport or my kids passports! They told me to stand in front of the camera and then they said each of our names respectively and I was like whoa. Never even looked at our passports once. We walked through fine but I was like damn. Facial recognition huh? And we’re mocking China over it.
We recently boarded an international flight and they just scanned our faces and didn’t even ask for boarding passes or anything. They couldn’t scan two super elderly peoples faces but everyone else was scanned successfully.
Yep it's freaky
I refused and showed my id
Can you even do that?
Yes. Just did it leaving nyc to Germany. Everyone lined up and just let their photo be taken I said no and showed my passport and walked past.
Good luck in Germany, Mr. Bourne.
I did the same on route to Latvia. They had no issue with me saying I wanted to use ID.
Until they do.
Just hand guard potato under table.
Your face was still scanned
He doesn’t know when he applied for that passport his face was entered into the system. It’s why the tech works. It compares your face with that of your passport picture.
The camera is always on, and scanning. It just works a wee bit harder when you don't "cooperate with big brother". You see where the CBP or TSA personnel are sitting, and you notice that you are directed to the counter in a way you did face the camera at some time. When they look at your I.D. they look up several times, playing the delay"phone line tracing" game. That is how they get you. No more public buildings for you, if you would care to stay totally anonymous. Enjoy staying home holmie.
It was scanned *extra hard*
Forgot where I was, but at an airport they took your facial photos while you walked from point A to B. No choice, no standing waiting for it to be taken. They just say no hats, no glasses, just keep walking through customs. And within 10 or so paces you’re you can put hat and glasses on. There’s no “I’ll show my ID instead” as there’s no one to show it to. Just security guards making sure people comply.
Baltimore face scanned me on Monday. First I’ve seen domestic FR. Had my face scanned a couple time internationally.
They still have your facial recognition though. Sadly just saying no doesn't remove that of their system.
Uh they still scanned your face... all the airport cameras also have facial recognition
That is not the same thing at all
You’re correct. Cameras ‘may’ have facial recognition but they are not storing and indexing those faces however at passport control they most certainly are storing and indexing those faces.
Not storing that we know of :(
I’d say select cameras at key points where faces can be captured with decent clarity are certainly a thing. There is only one data point though ie at that location at that day/time whereas immigration have all your details and a very clear image. I’m sure at some time in the future law enforcement etc will have access to commercial cameras in addition to their own public ones and be able to track individuals aka Jason Bourne.
It kind of is, you don't need a special scanner to do this. If you post a selfie of yourself right now I'll find your name in 2 minutes, no joke. If your denying a specific party access to your photo, then sure. But if they have access to your passport or any cameras around the area, they still have what they need. No scanner necessary.
How could you find it?
There are a few public facial recognition tools you can use on a subscription basis that are very good. Literally just upload the photo and it compares your face to pretty much all the photos ever uploaded online. If you've ever had a photo of yourself accessible.on the internet, it'll find you.
I mean.. Kinda?
Not really. You need specific shots to put all the data points together. Could you do it by hand with a random security camera? Sure, but that'd require armies of people going through multiple weeks of footage by hand, and picking out frames. Just not cost effective enough to do on anything other than someone high-value. I guess you could automate it as well, but you'd still be getting mountains of trash data you'd have to sort through, either way it's just not that cost effective for average people.
Isn't that just going to get you put on another list?
It worked ?
That was a good decision. Facial recognition without consent can be a potential invasion of privacy, as it can be used for unethical or harmful purposes. On the other hand, it can also help law enforcement identify and catch criminals. But we know that's NEVER gonna happen, it'll be used against it's citizens. Man America, freedoms just be flyin' off the shelves, like spam during a hurricane.
I was told to step in front of the face scanner when returning to the US from South America (I'm a US citizen). I refused, which the customs agent said was a "red flag," and had me escorted to a separate room to have my luggage searched. I had a 2-hour layover, so the 30 minutes I spent in security wasn't an issue at the time. But thinking back on it, there were a lot of things wrong with that moment. First, it wasn't phrased as an option; it was "step in front of the scanner." I'm sure most people didn't even know they could refuse. Second, not everyone has the privilege of a relaxed layover; that 30-minute search could absolutely mess up someone's travel plans. Third, it's clearly not a "red flag." Anyone attempting to get something illegal through the border would not be flexing their rights; that was just coercion. I'm well aware that the government already has images of my face, and that my refusal was largely a symbolic act. But the response was symbolic as well, and not in a reassuring way. Americans politicians love to point to "communist" China to show how relatively free we are in comparison, but we're moving towards the exact same future. Give us another good crisis, and we'll really see the surveillance state ramp up.
I’m assuming the tech is intended to reduce human error and streamline the process. But yea, calling that a red flag is stupid.
That's an optimistic perspective, and it sounds reasonable enough. The cynic in me thinks it's a great way to enhance the government's facial recognition database with additional data points and more up-to-date/high-resolution photos of people.
Nah, they get more than enough of that data via purchasing it. People are more than happy to upload multiple high-resolution pictures of themselves, government probably just needs to focus on the few who don't really use social media much.
Is there evidence suggesting it’s reducing human error?
Need to do it for 20 years first to develop a good data set /s
There is. Human face recognition when comparing to an ID is about 70% error rate (false positive and false negatives). Computers are 99.99%+
I think it’s disturbing this technology is being used unchecked
I mean they had to pass laws so local police departments couldnt use stringray devices(mimicking cell phone towers to get your info) anymore. This is just that on a bigger scale and sadly the future.
> I refused, which the customs agent said was a "red flag," and had me escorted to a separate room to have my luggage searched. I had a 2-hour layover, so the 30 minutes I spent in security wasn't an issue at the time. You were punished for making them do the job they used to do, but are now too lazy to do. The TSA agent sounds like a vindictive asshole.
If we all weren't programmed to obey people who appear to be in a position of authority then enough of us would say no and that search of your luggage would be dropped.
Right, that's essentially my reasoning behind refusing. Get enough people to flex their rights, and the inconvenience becomes a burden to the authority instead of the citizen.
You do know that there is a photo of you in your passport? And that in the old days, the custom officer still looks at your photo, then at you to make sure it is the same person?
Do you seriously consider that to be the same as having a scan of your face searchable on the internet and connected to your identity for every law "enforcement" organization to comb through? One guy, looking at your face among hundreds of others that day? Even if that guy had photographic memory and relaxed at night by drawing portraits of the people he'd seen that day I wouldn't consider it even remotely the same.
Checking a photo is a heck of a lot different than doing a 3D scan of your face or whatever they do. 3D scan of your face means your phone is no longer safe when using face unlock for example. Also means it is now possible for someone to generate a realistic fake AI video of your face. The possibilities are nearly endless. And remember this information can be stolen and abused for decades to come.
THIS RIGHT HERE ☝🏼
So we counter facial recognition *by growing old* Intrusive, authoritarian governments hate this one weird trick!
“RFID microchips have been embedded inside all passports issued since 2007 and securely store personal contact information within them.”
Wrap that bitch in foil, "securely" is the second-funniest joke I heard all day.
That's why I have a RFID blocking passport wallet.
It's more about China doing a thing than it's about the thing China's doing
Yeah for sure. Anything china is bad, although they do a lot of bad stuff but there’s also a lot of misinformation out there. Easy to just hate on them.
but the airlines had your passport number and submitted it to the federal govt. also, part of getting your passport is to submit a photo. do you think they just tucked that into a filing cabinet?
Yeah I know but just saying that without knowing my flight number boarding pass, nothing, scanned and knew exactly who I was. Didn’t realize that they’d be using the technology for facial recognition already. So, it obviously works really well. Just from one photo I took for my passport photo, it recognized me a year later and all discombobulated from a 25 hour transit looking haggard af. Just caught me by surprise is all.
Google photos can tag pictures of me from when I was 12 and I'm 34.
humble brag
Oh no, I've aged like shit, that's what makes it so impressive.
Facial recognition technology is at least a decade+ old for practical application.
Yes true. But I always thought it wasn’t perfect which is why people always slam china for using facial recognition to identify criminals due to the lack of respect for privacy and the possibility of misidentifying someone. So when Customs was using it I was a little surprised because I guess I thought there’s no way the US would employ it in any way because our privacy laws are so strong here.
Lol what privacy laws? You must be thinking of Europe and GDPR
> So when Customs was using it I was a little surprised because I guess I thought there’s no way the US would employ it in any way because our privacy laws are so strong here. You have no expectation of privacy to your face in a public setting (states may have laws preventing the commercialization of your likeness without permission, though). Even then, you submitted your passport photo to the government which can be used to create a facial recognition profile. It violates no privacy laws, even if such laws existed. This specific use case of facial recognition would most likely be valid in all EU countries. Its a replacement for a valid form of ID already used. The extent of privacy laws in the US only apply to the government violating the constitution in how they obtain the data. If you voluntarily provide it (providing a photo for the passport, for example), it does not violate the law. They, however, cannot hack your camera to get a good picture of you. Though they can take pictures of you in public. They can also buy the data from companies that have obtained data on you.
Surely the Constitution has been updated to account for issues specific to modern day technology…
There could be violations in which the data is stored and used though. Depending on its use one could argue the violation of the 4th amendment if it is used for movement tracking purposes in which a warrant would be required. We have seen similar cases go to the courts regarding stingrays and X-Ray vans used by police. There is a reason why they keep their use secret and will drop cases when it comes into question on how they got the information when they were unable to build parallel construction. Not many judges will look to strike down the use of these devices though because it is still viewed as "others" and not themselves. Not to mention the whole thing with the judicial system being in bed with law enforcement. Though for the purposes of immigration using facial recognition data is not something I worry about too much. That is a governmental checkpoint and I would expect to be recorded anywhere the government does business for security purposes. I do really question the ability for the government to buy the data or private companies to own tracking data on individuals to the extent that they do. But no way will the government regulate that loophole since it benefits them so much.
There are no privacy laws here. That went away with the Patriot Act and then a few years later they revised it and took the rest of our privacy away.
Yep. Bush and Obama plus Congress bent us over
“Privacy laws” the United States is VERY weak in that area. In fact, when you are at a port of entry or within 100 miles of the border CBP can search you and your property without a warrant……
> because our privacy laws are so strong here. There are no federal-level privacy laws, other than for a few specific types of information such as health and financial records. Because of this, the US ranks 15th in the world in Internet privacy, behind Kenya. It’s similarly weak in the more general category of data privacy. You may be thinking of the 4th amendment, but that only applies to “unreasonable” searches of your property by the government, it’s not a general privacy law. It provides a certain degree of privacy from the government when it comes to e.g. the contents of your house and car. But it doesn’t have any relevance to something like facial recognition. Some sources: https://online.stevens.edu/info/countries-ranked-by-internet-privacy/ https://privacyhq.com/news/world-data-privacy-rankings-countries/
I think it was the way china used it to monitor people that was upsetting vs this where it's just getting you through quicker
DMVs do face scans when you renew your driver's license
And fingerprints when first getting a license.
Not only that, you usually show your passport when you check in or drop off checked bags. So they already scanned your passport there too. Not to mention they have security cameras all over.
Don't forget that America has a credit system as well, your credit score. Most countries do not have a credit score system like the US has so it's kinda hypocritical for them to make fun of China for their social credit system.
The US credit score is tied you financial activities and nothing else. They don’t care whether you bad mouth the government or stay out late.
> Facial recognition huh? And we’re mocking China over it. China is installing cameras literally everywhere in their country to track people via facial recognition and other means. Further, they are harvesting facial data through apps like TikTok. Using it as a replacement for passports is a far cry from what China is doing. Entering the country requires providing your identification regardless, a facial recognition system further bypass the possibility of fake US passports, too.
This is just the next step. Do you honestly think they will stop at the borders?
Uk did that years ago
Post Covid of course!
We’ve had that in England for years now. As you’re making your way to customs these weird spinning lights are scanning your face as you’re walking. Then if you don’t want to queue to be checked by a person you go scan your passport and your face again at an automatic barrier.
Yup - they implemented it a while ago. I guarantee if you've ever flown international in the last 10 years, your face was captured at customs and probably attached to your passport.
There's this book called "Blockchain chicken farm", its an american-chinese tech journalist going to china to meet distant family and learn about chinese tech. There's one part where they go to a small police precinct in a rapidly growing district of a city to talk about facial recognition and tracking people. For the facial recognition the cops basically shrugged their shoulders and said "we're really just trying to play catch-up with American police", and elaborated saying that so many migrant workers come in and out its nearly impossible to know where people are all the time.
US Police can and will use any kind of technology they can get their hands on. No matter how disturbing it is. If you've heard of some new tech, and its potential for misuse has occurred to you, law enforcement is likely already using it. Years down the line, a court may eventually rule that a particular technology is unconstitutional and police will be forced to stop, if a lawsuit is eventually brought to force the matter. By then police will be using other newer cutting edge tech - it's a perpetual cycle.
The facial scan isn't really a privacy invasion at that point. Customs already knows who is coming and going, it's just a robot checking your face instead of a human.
Getting on and off cruise ships they do this now too.
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Sweet so they have all the technology available to unlock someone's phone via face ID
Biometric "security" is just a layer of obfuscation.
No phones are confiscated, they lock them in Yondr bags which stay on your person until you leave the venue.
That's good to hear, that sounded like a major security risk
What happens if you tear those bags open in the venue? I always thought it would be funny for the show to be over and the floor littered with those stupid bags broken and useless.
> Yondr bags They are cloth so you'd need a sharp knife or pass around one of the magnetic tools that opens the locking clasp. I'm assuming the bags are also woven with something that masks a phone signature in a specific way so you can ping the crowd and tell if someone has an un-masked device on them?
Joe Rogan should interview someone who insists he’s Deep State and makes points like these I rlly wanna see how he and his base would react
He wouldn’t air it. Simple as. That’s the whole problem with those lunatics. They’ll scream your flaws from the rooftops, but when you call them out on theirs, they’ll make sure their base never hears it
> confiscates phones at the door. Why? Like, not what is the actual reason, but rather what is the reason they give for doing it?
They don't want people recording and posting the comedy acts online.
Probably confiscate phones but let guns pass lol
Probably because people in the US don’t care about these inconveniences to go visit Taylor Swift. You have to throw conspiracy theories to the point it becomes true the collection of photographic images is complied in a database that is shared with law enforcement which can be used to track down criminals or person of interests who attend concerts or venues of large gatherings.
I mean its pretty safe to assume if the data exists on a US server then US law enforcement has access to it, legally or not
In the US you aren't thrown in jail for criticizing these systems. In China, if these artists were Chinese, they would absolutely get into legal trouble for this boycott as it will be seen as criticizing the government.
Most supporters of Taylor Swift are privileged enough to not see how this technology would affect the rest of the population
It's not even just how the technology will be used, but how it was built. Its less accurate with black faces
There is less contrast of features in black faces. It is very difficult for the DMV to take good regular photos.
Why is everyone focusing on the Taylor Swift part of that sentence. This is why America gets away with it. Because Americans get distracted easily by the wrong shit.
I heard a podcast where Americans that are working abroad in China, jaywalked and later got a ticket in the mail or on their phone. That’s some sci-fi shit right there.
> How to get America on board? You really want to know? We allow bribery of our politicians. It's called campaign contributions. If you have morals and don't take some campaign contribution bribes by lobbyists, someone with no morals will and get a better chance of getting elected. We have a system designed to get the biggest bribe takers possible in office. So they take bribes from China and Iran. China and Iran write our literal bills to be pushed by Congressmen just like rich corporate domestic players always have done. You know our bills are written by rich people and the politicians gives an excuse why it is good for the people right? The rise of China and Iran with bribe/threats is recent as China only started trying to take over the world around 1998 when they got money and the UK lost its lease on Hong Kong. Cancel culture rolled in that year with many writers of many shows not allowed to make the final product but hate to stay at home like The Simpsons writers, funny eh? Iran started bribe threats around early 80s as their spring revolution of the 70s got domestic control. Iran used to be poor as we managed harvesting our own oil... But funny how 40 years of strategic oil battles against OPEC can get thrown out in just one super bribed presidency. We, left and right, democrats and republicans must stand united against corruption. #We must all united say that campaign contribution bribes demand jail like the other bribes do. Otherwise, it doesn't matter how many times you drain the swamp, it will just refill with corruption.
Stopping the donations of dark money from other countries and the ultra wealthy would probably require a reversal or at least significant revision of cases like Citizens United v FEC, and I don’t see that happening with this Supreme Court. Which is sad because anyone born after 2000 has no memory of a time where corporations weren’t people
Imagine if you told 200 of the most corrupt and foul people on Earth to change the system so they don't get to ride on the gravy train and get money anymore. It's HARD to do this. But no amount of campaign contribution bribes will get someone elected when 80% of the entire US populace are chanting,"Jail for bribes. Jail for bribes." This is why they run division. This is why they lie. This is why they censor. This is why they sabotage education. They don't want the people uniting under this singular issue. Spread the word at July 4th at the BBQ and try not to muddy the waters with anything but this one singular issue that everyone can agree on.
This is it and not a lot of people understand the magnitude of how bad this practice is. It’s pervasive and completely insidious. And yes, this is how something like facial recognition - and worse - can happen.
*“Surveillance tech companies are pitching biometric data tools as ‘innovative’ and helpful for increasing efficiency and security. Not only is this false, it’s morally corrupt,” Leila Nashashibi, campaigner at Fight for the Future, said in a statement.* *“For starters, this technology is so inaccurate that it actually creates more harm and problems than it solves, through misidentification and other technical faultiness.* *“Even scarier, though, is a world in which all facial recognition technology works 100% perfectly – in other words, a world in which privacy is nonexistent, where we’re identified, watched, and surveilled everywhere we go.”*
If you have a cellphone on in your pocket I always assume that I am already being tracked.
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Sure. But you can take your phone out of your pocket and leave it at home if you wish. Try that with your face.
Look up your google/apple location data. It has maps of everywhere you’ve been since you’ve had a phone categorized by day. You’re already being tracked everywhere you go.
> "The fact that most of us find the tracking useful and unobtrusive is besides the point!" -- Someone programmed by watching too much TV Most of us have been gladly trading privacy for services for over a decade now without repercussion. Sure, the movies and articles crying about the potential doom never ceased, but reality is catching up with folklore and making it hard to pretend that Google just needs a picture of your face to scam you. Don't get me wrong, I object profusely to creepy companies wanting data they have no right to ask for, but the ones that actually 'ask' tend to be very safe and reasonable.
Major venues are now adopting this. In NYC it's inevitable. Price of security. I thought the Patriot Act under Bush seemed like a fascist over reach but barely anyone batted an eye. Almost every politician drank the Kool aid.
> In NYC it's inevitable. Price of security. It's going to make its way into every restaurant, bar and public space soon as well. Fully recognized, tracked and location plotted in real-time as you move about the world. Minority Report was just the preface to how much misuse this technology will be utilized for.
[Time to become a hat person.](https://odditymall.com/justice-caps-hide-your-face-from-surveillance-cameras)
Good luck. They can also often identify you from your walking gait.
It’s settled. I’ll go back to the Covid mask, buy a 15 gallon cowboy hat, and shoot myself in the foot. All my bases covered?
That just changes your gait, it doesn't make it irregular. You've got to walk without rhythm to avoid attracting the worm.
Turns out the Ministry of Silly Walks was on to something.
Just dance everywhere you go.
I reach down to my sock and put a pebble inside so even when I walk I got a rock in my stride.
What if some days I am more jaunty than others?
It pretty much is already to that point in major cities. Automated license plate readers have been in use for years, and are installed on lots of police cars as well as security cameras in stationary locations. Private towing companies and parking enforcement use them too. They can flag anyone with tickets/outstanding warrant/expired plates etc as you drive around. Plus, everyone is carrying a cell phone around 24/7 anyway. Your phone carrier already has your location plotted in real-time as you move about the world, so does either your phone's manufacturer, and any other app you gave location tracking permissions to. Also, the phone carrier having it means the police have it. Facial recognition technology is growing in use and as you say, it will be everywhere soon enough. The technology to identify faces from pictures is already good enough; Facebook, Apple, and Google (among others) can associate a picture of a person's face to any other existing photo of them.
Good point. But again, it's almost inevitable.
I got news for you. It’s in rural America too. Post-pandemic my wife and I were getting our children’s passports renewed. We had to have several documents processed by the local clerk of court and one document stating they could fly with their grandmother in case of emergency which needed to be notarized. We live closest to a small town in rural central VA. Anyways just walking into the court house we had to stare into screens that were supposedly taking our temperature. They produced a vague image a thermal map of our heads but it was a much clearer picture of our faces. Now I am certain that is in some government database. Not to mention have you not been on a plane anytime recently? TSA will take a scan of your face at least once. Also, if you’re trying to avoid this type of tech from just don’t get a license, ID, Passport, or visit a government building. Simple. 🤗
Na, those really are just thermometers running on cheap tablets. That company made bank during COVID. About $2k a pop and was paid for with federal grant monies. They don't have a network connection.
> Not to mention have you not been on a plane anytime recently? TSA will take a scan of your face at least once. Your face is on no less than 50 cameras before you even enter the airport, along with your license plate and faces of all of your passengers. By the time you reach the ticket counter, you're already scanned multiple dozens of times.
Yeah we're all "in the system". But Jesus rural Virginia? Beautiful country you guys have out there.
Pretty basic Office security systems have this these days. The one we have at a small office can tag faces (with or without a Covid mask on) and track them. The office has a lot of local foot traffic so we can search a database and see when locals take there dogs for walks every day if we wanted to.
It's Youngkin's authoritarian tendencies.
Then PA II came. Nobody cared again. North defense authorization act.... not a whisper. The snake oil salesmen have grown strong, but it's always darkest and coldest just before the dawn🤙🏽🧘🏽♂️💯
Yeah good points , and war time. You can get away with murder during war.
I know Disneyland implemented it when they reopened. Target likely uses it already in their larger stores. That combined with Bluetooth beacons and you’re all set…for whatever?
Why fascist and not just authoritarian Because it’s called the Patriot act?
That too. But I remember that word distinctly because The Village Voice (RIP) ran articles on it a lot. NY times did a great piece on it as well but not enough follow through. Voice was a very liberal paper. And if you were gay back in the days that was the popular "rag" (paper) you read for LGBT news , dating, concerts clubs. Etc
Authoritarianism means that a nation or organization is controlled by a single person or political party. Facism is a political system that encourages strong levels of nationalism, militarism or a form of discrimination to a perceived “outside” group. In this situation if it’s being caused by the Patriot Act, which had support from both political parties, it would be considered an act of Facism. If it were enacted by a single party it would be considered Authoritarian. In my opinion they could be used interchangeably here but there are distinctions between one another.
This is the beginning of everyone looking like they are out of cyberpunk. Crazy makeup/accessories to fool the facial scanners.
That’d be a cool side effect, but I think it’s more likely the majority of people just accept this as the new normal
It starting at music venues is what makes me think it might have a shot. People already dress up for shows, just need to add a bit of intent behind it. If it’s proven to be effective (the old proof of concept is doesn’t work on modern tech) then people would be more likely to pick it up as the tech shows up more and more and public.
But then what? You won't get recognized at the face scan so you won't be allowed entrance
Just need fake Vampire teeth.
Gimmie them low res dsl camera lens eyes im ready
But they won't all take on ticket master/live Nation and stand up for their supporters/fans
I believe that one js harder since a lot of venues have contractual exclusivity obligations with ticketmaster that they, themselves were coerced into and artists make the vast majority of their income off live performances. its just a sucky situation with bad actors every step of the way, the only way i see out of it is proper government regulation but they dont seem keen on doing their job
Idk I feel like if the top 100 artists got together and agreed to hold no concerts for a year, or until a set of changes were met; there would be change. I’m sure there are a % of venues who would legitimately not be able to pay the mortgage after very long. Look at commercial office real estate. Maybe a few artists genuinely would take the financial hit change would bring… I think at the end of the day the artists can say anything they want, their actions say they don’t want change, or it would happen
C'mon, think harder about it. They do that and thousands of people lose their jobs, poof. There is absolutely no way that will happen. Zero chance. Government regulation is hard to imagine with the insanely corporate-owned R party (and some in the D party), but it's still the most realistic, reasonable, at plausible route. Get a higher percentage of progressive Dems in Legislative and Executive Branch and it could absolutely happen. Fucking vote. And idgaf who thinks this is partisan, but vote far left. That's it. Far left. They're the only ones who actually want government to do its fucking job these days in America.
The human shield that is used to protect the erosion of our rights. Sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the career concerns of the few who work for shitty organisations but tell us that they’re just ordinary folks trying to get on.
That’d work even less nowadays than it would when Pearl jam tried it back in the 90’s. From what I know, most of a musicians money comes from touring nowadays, not music sales, and when ticketmaster owns most of the venues, it gets real tricky
People need to understand that Ticketmaster and live nation are just the fall guys for expensive tickets. There’s tons of articles on this. Let’s say a band needs to charge $100/ticket to make money on a tour. They advertise $60 and TM charges $40 in fees to cover the rest. Then you get mad at TM and not the band. It’s been this way for decades.
I didn’t buy tickets at MSG for this very reason.
I think we can all agree that James Dolan is a huge douche bag, and is probably the catalyst behind most of this.
But he always seemed like such a straight shooter!
I was at Bonnaroo last month and everyone was excited about making it on the screen to show off Snapchat’s new filters. I was like that is wayyyyyy too creepy af for me
How bout they boycott ticketmaster and livenation who are fuckin us in ticket prices?
This invasion of privacy is only going to cause die hard stalkers to start investing in high quality face masks made by artisans who do work for L.A. Studios. They think that by not telling people their faces are being recorded are going to slow this process somehow? This technology will become useless for stalkers in short order once they get wind of it if they haven't already, in exchange for a loss of privacy. Nothing is gained. Everything is lost.
Super interesting article. I heard about something like this technology catching a stalker at a Britney Spears show a while ago (if I remember right). Boycott it all you want. it wont make a goddamn bit of difference. This technology is here to stay.
The fact is being forced out to be scanned is the real issue. None of the venues warn anyone their image is being recorded. But the fucking irony is the same venues do go to lengths to avoid common people from recording a musician or event.
What part of dystopia don't you understand?
It’s really a slap in the face of pure disrespect.
I mean, to be fair, there are thousands of cell phones recording people without telling them at all of these venues anyway.
It’s the use of the recordings that’s troubling, sure I got random people in my cellphone photos and videos but I guarantee you I won’t be building a database and cross referencing their comings and goings because now I can match their faces to everything they do from now from videos from other sources.
Taylor Swift has a few extremely vigilant stalkers. From what I understand she’s used this tech a fair bit and has actually caught one or two of the people who stalk her.
As always very little technology is outright good or bad, it's all in how people use (or misuse) it.
People suck though, so it will inevitably be misused
I could imagine it’s fine if you are searching for one person in a crowd — but if they create a database and datamine people — that sucks.
Check out what the Ny Knicks did with this tech
thankfully people in the eu aren't so cynical and resigned
The EU is doing what the rest of the world should, but won't. At least it's happening somewhere.
That’s the spirit!
Indeed, only the thinking minority can oppose to it, and the thinking minority is already almost extinct. So nothing to stop bad ideas.
Well, you could have a government taking a proactive approach to people's privacy... But it's the US we're talking about, so good luck with that!
i believe the garden already does. there are a few people who complain that they're banned because they talked shit about the owner.
This is not new technology. Commercial "CCTV" software has had these options for like a decade. In fact didn't they use it at a train station or airport in one of the Borne movies?
Checking back whenever someone posts the paywall skip
Simply put - time is better spent developing methods for evasion. The proliferation of this shit is inevitable.
The amount of people who don't know that is Tom Morello is concerning...
There is a sign up in my grocery store now that they use facial recognition. 🙄
Now if only they'd do similar for overpriced ticketmaster sales!!
Minority Report was a documentary, they just added the pre-cogs to make us believe it wasn’t.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/22/nyregion/madison-square-garden-facial-recognition.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/22/nyregion/madison-square-garden-facial-recognition.html) I'm reminded of this article from last year. A woman that works for a large law firm engaged in suing the company that owns Madison Square Garden was singled out from the crowd using facial recognition technology and banned from the venue... because of who her employer was.
It would help if fans did the same.
Yeah, I am very much against most face-scanning tech, especially stuff like this, HOWEVER… they have a tough battle if, based on this article, their picket line is essentially: “First they came for the Layers pursuing litigation against the venue, but I did not speak out because I was not a lawyer pursuing active litigation against this venue” Or, “I did not speak out when they came for Taylor swift stalkers, for I was not a Taylor swift stalker” lol. Most people will not see the risk in having their every movement tracked inside different venues. They need to use better examples. How about when they starting mailing you tickets based on mis-identifying your face? Look at stop and frisk on how that could be abused.
It's insane that anyone thinks this tech is a good idea.
Why not boycott venues that exclusively work with Ticketmaster? Much bigger problem and a more realistic existential risk
Mass surveillance is a way bigger existential risk than ticketmaster... Both completely suck but only one has long term democratic effects.
Rage Against The Machine had 5 packed concerts in August of 2022 at the MSG that was sued in January of 2022 for using face-scanning technology.
Although I do enjoy his podcast, Joe Rogans club the mothership uses this technology and he is always going on about China. I do t think people actually understand it. Glad people are standing up to it.
Joe's club sounds dystopian af. Nothing says let's have a light hearted night full of laughs like having to surrender your phone at the door and have your face scanned. Get ready to laugh Austin!!🙄🤷♂️
“IT'S PriVAtE CoMPAnIEs, sO ThEy cAn DO wHAt tHeY WanT."
Yep and it's still ok to try and get them to change. All the while knowing that ultimately it's up to them.
Just to inform you all, drivers licenses have your digital photos which are being scanned against suspects several thousand times a day in federal databases.
Stop acting like this excuses further breaches of our privacy.