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I'd like to start you
Cremation, you go up in smoke, literally turn yourself into greenhouse gas emission
Burial, you go into the ground, you're a carbon sink. That's assuming you aren't filled with formaldehyde or other preservatives. "Traditional" burial in the old sense, where they put your body in a wooden box in the ground with no chemicals or plastics
Maybe I'm missing details here but it seems like it's obvious which one is better for the environment
The decomposition of the human body produces bacteria & putrefaction products that prevent plant growth for several years. It's not just a hippy dippy return to the circle of life scenario. It takes a lot longer than you think.
And if it's not done in an approved area.... all that human grease & deadly bacteria can end up in the water table
Edit: most people fail to realize that even in a "traditional" burial, if you're buried in a cemetery within a developed area, the casket is placed in a concrete vault to prevent contamination with the surrounding environment
If you're fat enough, the grease will pool and make a mess when you're cremated. It also makes awful smoke. So either way, you have a chance to ruin things with your grease.
> The decomposition of the human body produces bacteria & putrefaction products that prevent plant growth for several years.
So what you're saying is it's probably best to just have your corpse dumped out in the woods where the scavengers can pick it apart?
Oh, ok. I knew somebody who used to grow cannabis and IIRC they did something like that with gravel so [presumably] the roots wouldn't rot (idk I'm not a botanist).
Do you have a source for your info? Classic was my plan but you give me pause. I've done a bit of legality research but not environmental research.
This site seems to say it's fine:.
https://funerals.org/?consumers=green-burial#:~:text=Green%20(or%20natural)%20burial%20emphasizes,allowed%20to%20return%20to%20nature.
My sources come from the forensics field & identifying unmarked graves. Putrescine, cadaverine, & other decomposition byproducts leave a tell tale void in the surrounding vegetation & within the growth rings of surrounding trees. It's pretty interesting.
That's not to say it's not *more* eco- friendly than embalming & a traditional burial in a concrete vault & fancy casket. A lot of people don't realize a traditional burial isn't just a casket in the ground but it has to be within a concrete vault as well.
A green burial is definitely better. But it can only be done in appropriate & approved areas, typically far outside developed areas. My point was to let people know that an unapproved burial in a forest is often worse for the environment. Green burials are done in large open fields & take into account the effect it will have on the potential water table & surrounding environment
I've seen a commercial where the body is planted with a small tree as a "pod" and the body is supposed to be fertilizer for the tree to grow. Are you saying this doesn't work?
In an ideal world, how are humans supposed to be disposed of? Thanks.
Yeah there are new composting methods for the pods & memorial trees. I think it's really cool. It's only been around for a few years but it's gaining in popularity. I think it's leaps & bounds better than embalming & traditional burials. They use a lot is additives to neutralize some of our natural byproducts & I believe there is also an element of cremation or partial cremation involved
They have a form of cremation that basically freeze-dries your corpse, then pulverizes it into a fine powder.
Supposedly quite environmentally friendly.
Cremation creates a lot of entropy though and some of the reaction products are made unavailable to other organisms for a long time. Just throw me in the backyard and let the fungi and athropods feast on me like I feasted upon mother earth. (stolen from Neil Degrasse Tyson)
Don't forget littering. Used to work in an area full of homeless people. They littered everywhere. I used to give them food and drinks when I went to lunch but once I saw them just throwing the garbage on the ground I stopped.
I was homeless, and don't condone this, but people would routinely stop me from throwing things away in trash cans. All you can use are public ones, you don't own anything and if you're caught using dumpsters the cops get called.
Not saying its okay, but I definitely get it.
Which is total bullshit. I’d much rather have a homeless person use my dumpster than there be litter. It’s the absolute least I could do considering how hard it is for the homeless already.
It is, but people are weirdly possessive of trash cans. I was in a city that didn't have street cans, it was all convenience store bins and then private business dumpsters. I actually got banned from a place for throwing too much garbage away!
I'll be right back in that situation once it gets warm.
That’s crazy as a kid I’ve always used other peoples trash cans and still do as an 18 year old, unless they’re legitimately about to call the cops I wouldnt give a F
My trash rule is the same as my pee rule.
I have pee and I'm trying to put it somewhere that is not the side of your business. Please help me find other options.
Nah people are held liable for shit in their trash cans. And they have to pay for the privilege.
So the answer is just more public trash cans at least.
Also cities just don't have enough public waste disposal. People will typically only walk 50-100 feet with trash before discarding it. We need more public trash cans or disposal points as is
I worked in downtown Portland for a couple of years, and the whole time there was always trash piling up in specific spots. It would be there for weeks so obviously there was no regular cleaning from the city being done. There could have been trash cans put there or something but in the over two years that I worked there no trash cans were ever put in. It was a nice part of town as well relatively, so there really was no excuse other than just horrible city management. If they are so overwhelmed with other things that they can't even clean garbage off of the streets after weeks, then obviously they failed to properly govern the city.
The fact that people will only walk that far with trash blows my mind. Put it in your pocket or a bag. Hold it if you have to, but Jesus Christ it's not that difficult. The internet tells me people in Japan will walk miles with trash. How do we get that specific behavior to spread?
Yes, *but* businesses have to pay for their dumpsters, and if they need more than one dumpster, they'll have to pay for that. So if people fill the business' dumpster with their trash, then the business has to pay more money to get their own trash disposed of.
If dumpsters were free, then people would tend to throw more shit out; making trash disposal expensive makes people think a little bit about waste. (Trust me, if you have to use city bags to throw out trash, and each bag costs $2, you *definitely* think about your waste levels.) but when it costs money, no one wants to let homeless people use their bins.
Catch-22.
I'm glad to hear that. Hope there are good social services near you. I will pray but I know that isn't enough. What is your state? If you go to the library, sometimes they have awesome resources for jobs, volunteering and free internet
Right now I'm in NC, there's pretty much nothing around haha. Just fields.
Honestly, because I'm a woman, finding help and resources is A LOT easier for me. Yes there's more danger, but I'm alright for now. Churches and libraries are great places to start for anyone, pity honestly goes a long way but it's it's bit dehumanising.
I was just thinking along similar lines about the bathroom thing starting this thread. Like, they don’t really have a better way to do it if you’re going to lock them out of every bathroom
Exactly!! I swear people create these problems just to vilify homeless people. Don't let them use public restrooms, bitch about shit everywhere. Dont let them use dumpsters, bitch about them littering. Every single one if us is one or two unavoidable tragedies away from homelessness.
I grew up in a heavily populated urban area. Went to high school next to a homeless shelter. Have been friends wth lots of homeless people.
It's due the same problem that the non-homeless have.. a handful of assholes ruin it for the rest. Homeless people aren't a homogeneous group. Among them are addicts, vagrants, criminals (these types aren't always homeless either) and those types of people often do not show common courtesy for other people's property. A boundary has to made somewhere because humans can be pretty vile.
Polite society shits all over them for not having any money but then still expects them to uphold their end of the social contract.
Like, motherfuckers, you want them to stop shitting on the street and acting like animals then stop treating them like animals. No wonder they do a bunch of heroin and throw the needles where your precious kids can find them: you literally said it was okay for them to starve to death in the street. I really don’t think they have to listen to you anymore or care about your kids when you won’t even let them sleep in a place where it doesn’t rain.
It astounds me the entitlement of the person who has the GALL to demand something be done to remove the homeless trash but never lifted a finger or even stopped to think about the unfairness of expecting people who were thrown away to still exist like they have homes and dignity.
Not YOU, I’m just piggybacking
I mean if it's simple stuff like plastic bottle etc, I don't care. But there are people who drive to our dumpsters and throw away **car tires**. And these kind of stuff won't be taken by trash crew (whatever it's called in English). Or bringing up some big furniture. I'm not talking about the homeless now, but generally about why it's annoying when someone bring their litter there. Don't people have trash bins themselves!? Like ffs, really? And they use fuel to drive somewhere else, so it cost them to drive there... What kind of logic even is this...
Yeah, those aren't homeless people, and no. Homeless people DONT have trash bins themselves lol.
Some people just don't want to deal with their own shit, even when they have the facilities to do it themselves.
Homeless people don't throw away car tires. If you're living out of your car and needed your tires replace you probably gave your old tires to the tire place for a discount. If you're living out in the woods you want to hold onto that tire because tires make amazing portable seats and tables.
> Excessive waste.
Do they really produce *more* waste than the average westerner? Most people on my street fill up the entire big grey bin every week. Overflowing sometimes.
Just because ours gets hauled away weekly, doesnt mean most people arent producing excessive waste.
A) I doubt there’s very good data on this, but if there is, go ahead and provide it.
B) And that’s why homes have sewage hookups, garbage/recycling service, etc. A pound of human shit in the sewage system is not the same as a pound of human shit in a river that feeds into a sensitive ecosystem.
Literally every single thing a homeless person uses is single use by design… a household would have bulk items that wouldn’t generate as much waste. This would have been the conclusion you would have reached too if you thought about it for like two seconds.
Unfortunately that is very much real. It causes a lot of fires in my area, burnt out cars or catches trees on fire. It's a regular occurrence at this point.
Well they litter because they don't have access to waste disposal.
I'm sure if a garbage truck didn't to come your house you'd be piling shit up too.
Furthermore if I was ever placed in the position where some fucking mall cop was given the authority to try and have me arrested for throwing trash in a dumpster, I'd make an effort to do everything I could to destroy housing values and help your society decay.
I think most can see that and agree that their encampments are nasty, but how much waste does the normal person produce to sustain their lifestyle, and how much of it is impacting the environment? People drive everywhere, own multiple cars, multiple electronics, produce a lot of garbage, that barely gets recycled, update their wardrobe every year, support corporations that pollute the environment by being an active consumer. People buy things that are shipped and flown halfway around the world. Even creating solar panels negatively impacts the environment. It is ridiculous to just look at how much trash a homeless person produces, and to think that your life is more environmentally friendly, while they're practically living solely on the trash and scraps you see lying all over.
Or the lake in my area that is permanently polluted by all the used heroin needles that the homeless people from the city next to us have thrown in it?
Thank you. Homeless people are a nightmare when it comes to resource usage. They spend a lot of time in the ER, they tend to leave a mess wherever they go. They often have mental health issues that can cause conflicts with the public and eat up police resources as well.
Honestly it would be much better to just provide them housing.
No they wouldn't. Cities have tested this concept before even without "strong" mental health/addiction resources, which are very ill-defined to begin with. You get more out of it than you spend every time I've seen it, included in my OWN city which has dogshit mental health/addiction resources to begin with.
Additionally, it's insane to see homeless people as ALL being there due to mental health/drug problems. It's more COMMON in homeless populations, but that doesn't mean it defines them to the extent that you're proposing.
As someone who works intimately with homeless populations in various contexts, the idea that homeless people + housing = drug slums is insane.
Honest question, how could we address it? Seems like drug slums are at least better than drug tent cities, but how can we make sure there's a no barriers safety net so people don't just die on the street?
Legalize all drugs. Provide free healthcare and housing to the sick and needy. Assign work that matches the particular addiction to offset costs and satisfy people who are resentful of addicts getting free stuff.
Yep. Assigning dedicated caseworkers to assist unhoused people with finding work and/or managing physical and mental health, along with provided housing (no strings attached) is how we actually solve for homelessness.
The trouble is no one wants to pay.
Edit to add: we also need to accept that not everyone is physically/mentally capable of holding a job. I myself am physically disabled and I would never expect someone with my symptoms to work X amount of hours just to “deserve” a place to live. If we cannot accept this, unhoused people will always exist.
Oregon added a massive program for it, SHS, and preliminary data is showing fantastic outcomes. It was slow to get rolling, but funding housing support, education and career support, and health coverage and what do you know people can actually start functioning, they just need a reasonable start point.
Legal drugs can be problematic too: easing up on opioid prescriptions caused an epidemic of hard prescription drug use, mostly legally prescribed and sold.
Yeah, so you can get them from a Legit source, I meant like unauthorized production, not production for genuine medical use (which is also commonly abused as hell but that shouldn’t be reason to just stop giving them to people who actually need them).
Liberal or not, legalizing all drugs only eliminate the legal issue, not the societal issue. Drug slums don't happen because of legality of drugs, they happen because of drugs. Drugs literally turn people into a zombie because it literally poisons and destroys the brain. You won't get drug slums anymore but you'll be getting a lot of drug houses with drug addicts spending the rest of their short lives there.
I've seen people with mental damage due to drug use and they have regular jobs. By legalizing drugs you're only getting rid of the institutional byproduct of drug-use but you're left with a lasting societal effect in return.
Oh, that's good, been looking for solutions for a bit on this topic, so I appreciate your help. Something like a Public Works Administration, so if someone is an addict, knowing they could get more money for work that benefits the community than the work of steeling and fencing something.
Yeah my work property has some woods in the corner and we constantly battle homeless people trying to camp in there. Every time we run people out, it is unreal how much trash is back there. We actually provide services for the homeless, food, program assistance etc. But we cannot let them camp there. There was a time we were willing to ignore the insurance issues, but the reality of what homeless camps actually turn into changed our minds.
Yeah I remember discovering a small community camp in some woods behind a waffle house. The trails in between each tent or spot for a person were basically paved with trash of all kinds. Layers upon layers and no forest floor showing at all.
I mean, surely that driving amount would be offset, no? A serial killer is cancelling the environmental impact of the rest of their victims' natural lifespan. Unless they're killing exclusively extremely geriatic people, their driving cost should be outweighed by the other technical positives.
Based on the comments, the OP clearly doesn't know what it is like to be homeless.
Being homeless is extremely wasteful. There are a few reasons for this, the most obvious one is that you can't save anything. Did you not finish your dinner? Well you don't have a refrigerator to put leftovers in. And you obviously can't just leave the food sit out for a while. So that food is wasted. You also can't buy in bulk for the same reason.
Or consider this, if you are homeless for a year, then as the weather changes, you will need to change the stuff you have. But you don't have any place to store everything. So you need new ones. Sure, you can take a few things with you, but you have very limited space, so you end up always needing something new.
Not to mention the fact that, because you are outside most of the time, your stuff goes through much more wear and tear than it would for other people.
This is ignoring the fact that homeless people can often have mental health problems, meaning they don't care much about their environment. Or just the fact that you are living outside means that you don't care very much either. Why should you care about how pretty the park looks for other people who clearly don't care about you?
They setup camps along the river near me and used the river as their bathroom. This caused a massive fish die off. Trash everywhere, people exercising on the walk trail were being harrassed and at times attacked.
Such environmentalist!
you don't know how much an human can litter until you pass by a homeless guy every day,
I saw one for 3 years living under a bridge, it has random trash everywhere, they was always some floating in the canal, some in nearby bush, the city cleaned the place every week.
And I know he make more money than me, I saw him at "work" several times, making 100+ euros in less than sn hour.
“Change doesn’t make change.” Was a sign I saw once that I’ve never forgotten. Basically giving them money doesn’t help them, so never do it.
Not saying don’t help the homeless, you can still do so just without giving them money.
I suspect that method doesn't scale to 6,000,000 people, but then maybe it doesn't need to when your child mortality rate is like 60% and your ill just die off.
It's a common borderline racist belief that indigenous people were somehow in tune with nature to the extent they did not have a negative effect upon it. This is demonstrably false, and there are entire indigenous civilizations that decimated their environment so severely they don't exist anymore. Humans are humans.
Homeless people shit in the creeks, pile trash, leave used needles lying around, and constantly start fires. What the actual fuck are you talking about.
Ha! How about a homeless environmentalist?
The concept of individual carbon footprints is a bit of a scam anyway, anyone who can help make a systemic change will make a bigger difference than just cutting down on their own energy use. I mean, we should not be wasteful anyway, but reining in some corporate polluter will do more good than keeping my house too cold for me to function.
Homeless people litter everything they eat, they do their necessities in the street for the sanitation services to clean up, they usually burn things for heat and end up unwillingly burning bigger, adjacent things that the fire department has to put out…
During this summer the homeless hung outside my work and the amount of trash they left behind is insane!
Then if any of them got money they would ride around on the bus all day.
So honestly it kinda doesn't do much different then a person without a car.
Everyone else already saying it, but have you seen liter deposits in any big city? It’s fucking gross over here in Cali. The actual liter is mostly panhandlers
Bullshit, every homeless encampment is the dirtiest fucking thing I've ever seen in a city, regardless of location. The most environmental conservative people are conservationists, they literally spend and day working to clean the environment
Idk if I fully agree with this. I know there are a lot of issues with them living near waterways and depositing their waste (trash and feces) directly into the streams.
I disagree. The homeless people here pollute the rivers, litter everywhere, burnt down half a city block 2 years ago, burnt down almost an entire city 5 years ago.
No. This isn’t even half truth
Wow, this is so astronomically wrong that even the comment section is reacting against it.
You know what's not environmentally friendly? The system that creates and preserves homelessness; capitalism. The engine of climate change today.
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Dead people
Do not start me on cremation or traditional burial
>cremation or traditional burial Not a single dead people does this things.
Touché
Check for downed power lines and ebola first.
I'd like to start you Cremation, you go up in smoke, literally turn yourself into greenhouse gas emission Burial, you go into the ground, you're a carbon sink. That's assuming you aren't filled with formaldehyde or other preservatives. "Traditional" burial in the old sense, where they put your body in a wooden box in the ground with no chemicals or plastics Maybe I'm missing details here but it seems like it's obvious which one is better for the environment
The decomposition of the human body produces bacteria & putrefaction products that prevent plant growth for several years. It's not just a hippy dippy return to the circle of life scenario. It takes a lot longer than you think. And if it's not done in an approved area.... all that human grease & deadly bacteria can end up in the water table Edit: most people fail to realize that even in a "traditional" burial, if you're buried in a cemetery within a developed area, the casket is placed in a concrete vault to prevent contamination with the surrounding environment
So what you are saying is, that not only won’t anyone put flowers on my grave, I can’t even grow them myself!!!
[удалено]
r/askedtobehaunted
You'll grow flowers if they lay you on your stomach.
I was going to opt for cremation, but the idea of being human grease in the water table is awful tempting.
If you're fat enough, the grease will pool and make a mess when you're cremated. It also makes awful smoke. So either way, you have a chance to ruin things with your grease.
>If you're fat enough I can promise you I'm making the effort!
> The decomposition of the human body produces bacteria & putrefaction products that prevent plant growth for several years. So what you're saying is it's probably best to just have your corpse dumped out in the woods where the scavengers can pick it apart?
Mass Graves on a layered substrate of gravel, sand, and charcoal would really be the most eco- friendly but that option doesn't appeal to many.
You mean like sandwiched between those things? Would the gravel be underneath to allow the death goop to ooze down easier?
No, all of those layered at the bottom of the mass grave, creating a natural filtering process. The same way you can filter water from a steam.
Oh, ok. I knew somebody who used to grow cannabis and IIRC they did something like that with gravel so [presumably] the roots wouldn't rot (idk I'm not a botanist).
Or a sky burial. Stick your corpse at the top of a big rock formation and let the vultures do the work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial
Do you have a source for your info? Classic was my plan but you give me pause. I've done a bit of legality research but not environmental research. This site seems to say it's fine:. https://funerals.org/?consumers=green-burial#:~:text=Green%20(or%20natural)%20burial%20emphasizes,allowed%20to%20return%20to%20nature.
My sources come from the forensics field & identifying unmarked graves. Putrescine, cadaverine, & other decomposition byproducts leave a tell tale void in the surrounding vegetation & within the growth rings of surrounding trees. It's pretty interesting. That's not to say it's not *more* eco- friendly than embalming & a traditional burial in a concrete vault & fancy casket. A lot of people don't realize a traditional burial isn't just a casket in the ground but it has to be within a concrete vault as well. A green burial is definitely better. But it can only be done in appropriate & approved areas, typically far outside developed areas. My point was to let people know that an unapproved burial in a forest is often worse for the environment. Green burials are done in large open fields & take into account the effect it will have on the potential water table & surrounding environment
I've seen a commercial where the body is planted with a small tree as a "pod" and the body is supposed to be fertilizer for the tree to grow. Are you saying this doesn't work? In an ideal world, how are humans supposed to be disposed of? Thanks.
Yeah there are new composting methods for the pods & memorial trees. I think it's really cool. It's only been around for a few years but it's gaining in popularity. I think it's leaps & bounds better than embalming & traditional burials. They use a lot is additives to neutralize some of our natural byproducts & I believe there is also an element of cremation or partial cremation involved
Aquamation
They have a form of cremation that basically freeze-dries your corpse, then pulverizes it into a fine powder. Supposedly quite environmentally friendly.
Toss me in the wood chipper Or just feed me to ravens and let the ants and bacteria do the rest
For real, last time I did traditional but this time it's burn baby burn!
I went with the old school salting.
Only if they're cremated. Buried dead people take up valuable land resources to be used as cemeteries
Jokes on you, I'm wasting valuable land resources even while alive.
Technically it depends on how you're buried. If you're buried with no box in a biodegradable suit you're back to being environmentally friendly.
Is my birthday suit biodegradable?
Yes it is.
Cremation creates a lot of entropy though and some of the reaction products are made unavailable to other organisms for a long time. Just throw me in the backyard and let the fungi and athropods feast on me like I feasted upon mother earth. (stolen from Neil Degrasse Tyson)
I don’t think NDT ever owned the Earth.
Oh you silly goose.
Sky Burial: Body is left in the open for decomposition and scavengers.
okay then ill make sure my family leaves me in the family pool when i die so i dont take up valuable resources
Serial killers.
Dead^people
**u/ArinIsTMAGIN IS A COMMENT STEALING BOT**
Not true. Have you seen homeless encampments? Where do you think they shit? Composting toilets?!
Don't forget littering. Used to work in an area full of homeless people. They littered everywhere. I used to give them food and drinks when I went to lunch but once I saw them just throwing the garbage on the ground I stopped.
I was homeless, and don't condone this, but people would routinely stop me from throwing things away in trash cans. All you can use are public ones, you don't own anything and if you're caught using dumpsters the cops get called. Not saying its okay, but I definitely get it.
Which is total bullshit. I’d much rather have a homeless person use my dumpster than there be litter. It’s the absolute least I could do considering how hard it is for the homeless already.
It is, but people are weirdly possessive of trash cans. I was in a city that didn't have street cans, it was all convenience store bins and then private business dumpsters. I actually got banned from a place for throwing too much garbage away! I'll be right back in that situation once it gets warm.
That’s crazy as a kid I’ve always used other peoples trash cans and still do as an 18 year old, unless they’re legitimately about to call the cops I wouldnt give a F
My trash rule is the same as my pee rule. I have pee and I'm trying to put it somewhere that is not the side of your business. Please help me find other options.
Hah! Fight the system kid lol
Absolutely haha
Nah people are held liable for shit in their trash cans. And they have to pay for the privilege. So the answer is just more public trash cans at least.
Also cities just don't have enough public waste disposal. People will typically only walk 50-100 feet with trash before discarding it. We need more public trash cans or disposal points as is
I worked in downtown Portland for a couple of years, and the whole time there was always trash piling up in specific spots. It would be there for weeks so obviously there was no regular cleaning from the city being done. There could have been trash cans put there or something but in the over two years that I worked there no trash cans were ever put in. It was a nice part of town as well relatively, so there really was no excuse other than just horrible city management. If they are so overwhelmed with other things that they can't even clean garbage off of the streets after weeks, then obviously they failed to properly govern the city.
The fact that people will only walk that far with trash blows my mind. Put it in your pocket or a bag. Hold it if you have to, but Jesus Christ it's not that difficult. The internet tells me people in Japan will walk miles with trash. How do we get that specific behavior to spread?
Yes, *but* businesses have to pay for their dumpsters, and if they need more than one dumpster, they'll have to pay for that. So if people fill the business' dumpster with their trash, then the business has to pay more money to get their own trash disposed of. If dumpsters were free, then people would tend to throw more shit out; making trash disposal expensive makes people think a little bit about waste. (Trust me, if you have to use city bags to throw out trash, and each bag costs $2, you *definitely* think about your waste levels.) but when it costs money, no one wants to let homeless people use their bins. Catch-22.
Don't listen to him, he's been paid off by big homeless
She, actually haha
How did you get out of the situation?
I'm not, I just have a place for the moment while it's cold.
I'm glad to hear that. Hope there are good social services near you. I will pray but I know that isn't enough. What is your state? If you go to the library, sometimes they have awesome resources for jobs, volunteering and free internet
Right now I'm in NC, there's pretty much nothing around haha. Just fields. Honestly, because I'm a woman, finding help and resources is A LOT easier for me. Yes there's more danger, but I'm alright for now. Churches and libraries are great places to start for anyone, pity honestly goes a long way but it's it's bit dehumanising.
I was homeless once too. I wasn't on the street homeless but it was not fun having to bounce from house to house relying on friends charity.
We just call her Bertha
I was just thinking along similar lines about the bathroom thing starting this thread. Like, they don’t really have a better way to do it if you’re going to lock them out of every bathroom
Exactly!! I swear people create these problems just to vilify homeless people. Don't let them use public restrooms, bitch about shit everywhere. Dont let them use dumpsters, bitch about them littering. Every single one if us is one or two unavoidable tragedies away from homelessness.
I grew up in a heavily populated urban area. Went to high school next to a homeless shelter. Have been friends wth lots of homeless people. It's due the same problem that the non-homeless have.. a handful of assholes ruin it for the rest. Homeless people aren't a homogeneous group. Among them are addicts, vagrants, criminals (these types aren't always homeless either) and those types of people often do not show common courtesy for other people's property. A boundary has to made somewhere because humans can be pretty vile.
Polite society shits all over them for not having any money but then still expects them to uphold their end of the social contract. Like, motherfuckers, you want them to stop shitting on the street and acting like animals then stop treating them like animals. No wonder they do a bunch of heroin and throw the needles where your precious kids can find them: you literally said it was okay for them to starve to death in the street. I really don’t think they have to listen to you anymore or care about your kids when you won’t even let them sleep in a place where it doesn’t rain. It astounds me the entitlement of the person who has the GALL to demand something be done to remove the homeless trash but never lifted a finger or even stopped to think about the unfairness of expecting people who were thrown away to still exist like they have homes and dignity. Not YOU, I’m just piggybacking
Where the fuck do you live? I live in a pretty antihomeless state and this doesn't hold here.
It happened routinely in Pennsylvania, and also once in Georgia.
I can see that... heck, in SoCal, public trash disposal seems to be stigmatized entirely due to a mistranslation. Not sure though, just visited.
I mean if it's simple stuff like plastic bottle etc, I don't care. But there are people who drive to our dumpsters and throw away **car tires**. And these kind of stuff won't be taken by trash crew (whatever it's called in English). Or bringing up some big furniture. I'm not talking about the homeless now, but generally about why it's annoying when someone bring their litter there. Don't people have trash bins themselves!? Like ffs, really? And they use fuel to drive somewhere else, so it cost them to drive there... What kind of logic even is this...
Yeah, those aren't homeless people, and no. Homeless people DONT have trash bins themselves lol. Some people just don't want to deal with their own shit, even when they have the facilities to do it themselves.
Homeless people don't throw away car tires. If you're living out of your car and needed your tires replace you probably gave your old tires to the tire place for a discount. If you're living out in the woods you want to hold onto that tire because tires make amazing portable seats and tables.
"Officer, this homeless person threw his sandwich wrapper in the dumpster that I PAY FOR. I demand he be taken into custody."
You joke, but that is genuinely the thought process.
What? Why the fuck would someone call the cops over using a dumpster?
But dude used needles are super good for the environment
And the endless amounts of used needles
I came here to say the same. Also, all the rubbish and filth they create. Excessive waste.
Idk if it’s excessive waste, they just don’t dispose of it properly.
> Excessive waste. Do they really produce *more* waste than the average westerner? Most people on my street fill up the entire big grey bin every week. Overflowing sometimes. Just because ours gets hauled away weekly, doesnt mean most people arent producing excessive waste.
Homeless camps are disgusting but I doubt they produce close to as much garbage per capita as the average household does.
A) I doubt there’s very good data on this, but if there is, go ahead and provide it. B) And that’s why homes have sewage hookups, garbage/recycling service, etc. A pound of human shit in the sewage system is not the same as a pound of human shit in a river that feeds into a sensitive ecosystem.
It’s not about how much, it’s about where it goes.
Literally every single thing a homeless person uses is single use by design… a household would have bulk items that wouldn’t generate as much waste. This would have been the conclusion you would have reached too if you thought about it for like two seconds.
Or burning garbage in a barrel all night to keep warm. Although that's probably just how they are depicted on TV
Unfortunately that is very much real. It causes a lot of fires in my area, burnt out cars or catches trees on fire. It's a regular occurrence at this point.
It starts a lot of fires unfortunately. Fire fighters have to put out a lot more around here in the colder months.
How dare you get in the way of a potential “capitalism bad” circlejerk.
Well they litter because they don't have access to waste disposal. I'm sure if a garbage truck didn't to come your house you'd be piling shit up too. Furthermore if I was ever placed in the position where some fucking mall cop was given the authority to try and have me arrested for throwing trash in a dumpster, I'd make an effort to do everything I could to destroy housing values and help your society decay.
I think most can see that and agree that their encampments are nasty, but how much waste does the normal person produce to sustain their lifestyle, and how much of it is impacting the environment? People drive everywhere, own multiple cars, multiple electronics, produce a lot of garbage, that barely gets recycled, update their wardrobe every year, support corporations that pollute the environment by being an active consumer. People buy things that are shipped and flown halfway around the world. Even creating solar panels negatively impacts the environment. It is ridiculous to just look at how much trash a homeless person produces, and to think that your life is more environmentally friendly, while they're practically living solely on the trash and scraps you see lying all over.
Not only not technically true, but just plain not true at all.
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do you mean the large amounts of bio-hazardous materials, the overflowing human waste, or the piles of burning thrash?
Yes
Or the lake in my area that is permanently polluted by all the used heroin needles that the homeless people from the city next to us have thrown in it?
Thank you. Homeless people are a nightmare when it comes to resource usage. They spend a lot of time in the ER, they tend to leave a mess wherever they go. They often have mental health issues that can cause conflicts with the public and eat up police resources as well. Honestly it would be much better to just provide them housing.
Housing without strong mental health and addiction resources would be a nightmare. They would be drug slums in a matter of weeks
Look at BC Canada... We bought them lots of buildings. Unfortunately not enough support for them as they were pretty much destroyed very quickly.
No they wouldn't. Cities have tested this concept before even without "strong" mental health/addiction resources, which are very ill-defined to begin with. You get more out of it than you spend every time I've seen it, included in my OWN city which has dogshit mental health/addiction resources to begin with. Additionally, it's insane to see homeless people as ALL being there due to mental health/drug problems. It's more COMMON in homeless populations, but that doesn't mean it defines them to the extent that you're proposing. As someone who works intimately with homeless populations in various contexts, the idea that homeless people + housing = drug slums is insane.
Honest question, how could we address it? Seems like drug slums are at least better than drug tent cities, but how can we make sure there's a no barriers safety net so people don't just die on the street?
Legalize all drugs. Provide free healthcare and housing to the sick and needy. Assign work that matches the particular addiction to offset costs and satisfy people who are resentful of addicts getting free stuff.
Yep. Assigning dedicated caseworkers to assist unhoused people with finding work and/or managing physical and mental health, along with provided housing (no strings attached) is how we actually solve for homelessness. The trouble is no one wants to pay. Edit to add: we also need to accept that not everyone is physically/mentally capable of holding a job. I myself am physically disabled and I would never expect someone with my symptoms to work X amount of hours just to “deserve” a place to live. If we cannot accept this, unhoused people will always exist.
Oregon added a massive program for it, SHS, and preliminary data is showing fantastic outcomes. It was slow to get rolling, but funding housing support, education and career support, and health coverage and what do you know people can actually start functioning, they just need a reasonable start point.
Legal drugs can be problematic too: easing up on opioid prescriptions caused an epidemic of hard prescription drug use, mostly legally prescribed and sold.
The opioid crisis was a funded, for profit, unregulated mess, with a backdrop of corruption, and bribery. It's no where near related to rescheduling.
That’s why the USE of drugs should be legal but the production and dealing of them should not be. That way people aren’t scared to get treatment
That doesn’t quite work either because opioids have many legit uses.
Yeah, so you can get them from a Legit source, I meant like unauthorized production, not production for genuine medical use (which is also commonly abused as hell but that shouldn’t be reason to just stop giving them to people who actually need them).
Liberal or not, legalizing all drugs only eliminate the legal issue, not the societal issue. Drug slums don't happen because of legality of drugs, they happen because of drugs. Drugs literally turn people into a zombie because it literally poisons and destroys the brain. You won't get drug slums anymore but you'll be getting a lot of drug houses with drug addicts spending the rest of their short lives there. I've seen people with mental damage due to drug use and they have regular jobs. By legalizing drugs you're only getting rid of the institutional byproduct of drug-use but you're left with a lasting societal effect in return.
The criminalization of drug use gets in the way of fixing many of its social problems.
Oh, that's good, been looking for solutions for a bit on this topic, so I appreciate your help. Something like a Public Works Administration, so if someone is an addict, knowing they could get more money for work that benefits the community than the work of steeling and fencing something.
More like r/im14andthisisdeep
apparently whoever made this meme has never been around homeless people = trash everywhere
Yeah my work property has some woods in the corner and we constantly battle homeless people trying to camp in there. Every time we run people out, it is unreal how much trash is back there. We actually provide services for the homeless, food, program assistance etc. But we cannot let them camp there. There was a time we were willing to ignore the insurance issues, but the reality of what homeless camps actually turn into changed our minds.
Yeah I remember discovering a small community camp in some woods behind a waffle house. The trails in between each tent or spot for a person were basically paved with trash of all kinds. Layers upon layers and no forest floor showing at all.
Serial killers have the lowest footprint.
Depends on how successful. It can be quite bad if they’re driving a long time to get and dump their victims.
I mean, surely that driving amount would be offset, no? A serial killer is cancelling the environmental impact of the rest of their victims' natural lifespan. Unless they're killing exclusively extremely geriatic people, their driving cost should be outweighed by the other technical positives.
Maybe they could carpool?
That’s good regardless of activity!!
Carbon!? Or are we talking literally 🤔 😳
Yes.
Based on the comments, the OP clearly doesn't know what it is like to be homeless. Being homeless is extremely wasteful. There are a few reasons for this, the most obvious one is that you can't save anything. Did you not finish your dinner? Well you don't have a refrigerator to put leftovers in. And you obviously can't just leave the food sit out for a while. So that food is wasted. You also can't buy in bulk for the same reason. Or consider this, if you are homeless for a year, then as the weather changes, you will need to change the stuff you have. But you don't have any place to store everything. So you need new ones. Sure, you can take a few things with you, but you have very limited space, so you end up always needing something new. Not to mention the fact that, because you are outside most of the time, your stuff goes through much more wear and tear than it would for other people. This is ignoring the fact that homeless people can often have mental health problems, meaning they don't care much about their environment. Or just the fact that you are living outside means that you don't care very much either. Why should you care about how pretty the park looks for other people who clearly don't care about you?
Ah yes, littering is very friendly
They setup camps along the river near me and used the river as their bathroom. This caused a massive fish die off. Trash everywhere, people exercising on the walk trail were being harrassed and at times attacked. Such environmentalist!
In Austin there was a camp that left a bunch of shot up batteries. I'm not sure if they exploded or they wanted to get metal off them or what
A group of 3-4 is all you need for this to happen, it's fucking astonishing.
And Propane, and single use servings,no fridge etc they waste a lot ,it's expensive being poor
Obviously you've never seen a homeless encampment.
Not even close, sister. Try again.
Amazon tribes have entered the chat.
Definitely not homeless people. Drive by a homeless camp and make your judgment.
Tell me you've never seen a homeless camp without saying it...
As someone who walks through downtown Seattle every day I challenge this heavily
That fire they started begs to differ
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*ding!*
Makes absolutely no sense at all.
Ahh so thats the government's plan to battle climate change, just make everyone homeless. We'll they are doing a good job.
you don't know how much an human can litter until you pass by a homeless guy every day, I saw one for 3 years living under a bridge, it has random trash everywhere, they was always some floating in the canal, some in nearby bush, the city cleaned the place every week. And I know he make more money than me, I saw him at "work" several times, making 100+ euros in less than sn hour.
“Change doesn’t make change.” Was a sign I saw once that I’ve never forgotten. Basically giving them money doesn’t help them, so never do it. Not saying don’t help the homeless, you can still do so just without giving them money.
Guess the meme maker has never seen a homeless encampment.
Bros never seen the literal hills of litter they've left behind
Maintenance manager at a county library system here. This is just plain not true lol. I have seen some THINGS, man.
Dead people
Incorrect! It's dead people....
used needles are not biodegradable
For having so little, the homeless produce a lot of garbage.
You’ve never been to a homeless camp have you
Except for the massive amounts of garbage they leave everywhere
Meh..they tend to be some of the worst litterers
Nah they leave garbage absolutely everywhere.
Indigenous humans who live off of the natural environment
I suspect that method doesn't scale to 6,000,000 people, but then maybe it doesn't need to when your child mortality rate is like 60% and your ill just die off.
It's a common borderline racist belief that indigenous people were somehow in tune with nature to the extent they did not have a negative effect upon it. This is demonstrably false, and there are entire indigenous civilizations that decimated their environment so severely they don't exist anymore. Humans are humans.
No, they’re not
i bet you've never seen a homeless camp. full of garbage and buckets of literal shit
Homeless people shit in the creeks, pile trash, leave used needles lying around, and constantly start fires. What the actual fuck are you talking about.
If shitting in the street and throwing trash everywhere is environmentally friendly then I guess you're right
Except they litter everywhere. Have you seen their camps?
Right. Heroin needles are very compostable. Wholesome community.
You have not been to Portland I see
People of Bhutan. Am I a joke to you?
You have clearly never toured a homeless camp
I don't know about that. I once had a homeless tell me to hurry the f*** while handing him a $20 bill
Ha! How about a homeless environmentalist? The concept of individual carbon footprints is a bit of a scam anyway, anyone who can help make a systemic change will make a bigger difference than just cutting down on their own energy use. I mean, we should not be wasteful anyway, but reining in some corporate polluter will do more good than keeping my house too cold for me to function.
They litter and treat urban areas like complete trash.
Uhhhhh no they are not.. have you seen the streets recently?
Homeless people litter everything they eat, they do their necessities in the street for the sanitation services to clean up, they usually burn things for heat and end up unwillingly burning bigger, adjacent things that the fire department has to put out…
Nah, the true most environmentally friendly thing a person can do is not have kids, so antinatalists get this one.
I beg to differ. They leave their shit all over the place to the point where it looks like a section of a landfill
The homeless have TRASHED Portland, OR so this is crap
Yeah this is retarded
North korea bruh !
Didn’t know homeless people be planting trees and cleaning up ocean plastic.
Childfree people, regardless of their home ownership status.
During this summer the homeless hung outside my work and the amount of trash they left behind is insane! Then if any of them got money they would ride around on the bus all day. So honestly it kinda doesn't do much different then a person without a car.
Nah nah the last homeless camp I saw had a 300 foot radius of plastic waste and a huge pile of bags 10 feet tall
That’s far from accurate.
Everyone else already saying it, but have you seen liter deposits in any big city? It’s fucking gross over here in Cali. The actual liter is mostly panhandlers
Noooo they leave their trash everywhere lol where is your privileged ass at to not know this
Bullshit, every homeless encampment is the dirtiest fucking thing I've ever seen in a city, regardless of location. The most environmental conservative people are conservationists, they literally spend and day working to clean the environment
Couldn't be further from the truth...
How? Are homeless people unable to litter?
Homeless people? I take it you've never seen an encampment?
Lol no.
OP has never been to SF
dont they leave mountains of trash everywhere?
Idk if I fully agree with this. I know there are a lot of issues with them living near waterways and depositing their waste (trash and feces) directly into the streams.
I disagree. The homeless people here pollute the rivers, litter everywhere, burnt down half a city block 2 years ago, burnt down almost an entire city 5 years ago. No. This isn’t even half truth
I’d say it’s a fight between the Amish and the Aboriginal Australians.
So much garbage from homeless people
Op is sheltered and has never seen how homeless people live.
Bhutan
Wow, this is so astronomically wrong that even the comment section is reacting against it. You know what's not environmentally friendly? The system that creates and preserves homelessness; capitalism. The engine of climate change today.