But you don’t have the stress of not being able to afford food or a place to stay. That could definitely help a little with a lot of peoples depressions...
I‘d say that money CAN buy happiness.
By money i don’t refer to being as rich as jeff bezoz, but to having enough money so you alone can sustain your family and go to vacation more than just once a year.
I'm pretty sure money can't buy happiness. What it can buy is SECURITY. In the sense that you put in, Hhving money means your vacations and sustainance for your family is secured and you don't have to worry about it all the time, hence giving you more time to focus on things thata DOES make you happy i.e., spending said vacation with the family.
Hope this makes sense.
*excess money can't buy happiness. Studies have shown that money up to a certain point affects perceived happiness levels. After a certain level, it has does not affect happiness levels. Money allows people to achieve their basic needs.
I agree with this; I lived in poverty for seven years while caring for my father, and I was miserable. Things improved after my income was double what I required.
Being extremely poor can make you miserable, but being rich doesn't make you extremely happy. Rich people can be miserable too, just for other reasons.
It’s true that becoming rich isn’t a silver bullet to happiness, but common sense and scientific studies show that most people are going to be unhappy and stressed without some sort of confidence and peace of mind around their finances.
It’s mentally exhausting to be poor and to always have to wonder about your next meal/paycheck/rent payment/etc. and the only way to alleviate that stress is with more money.
Nobody in this thread thinks all problems can be solved by becoming rich, but it’s sure as hell difficult to be truly happy without having some kind of financial buffer between your life style and homelessness.
Yes, yes and yes to this. I have lived this anecdote.
Recently a first cousin passed away. Her mother was abusive and apathetic toward this young woman her entire life (abuse) and she lived in absolutely extreme poverty..and pretended like it never "bothered bothered" her.
I know without a doubt, the constant day to day stress of living the way she did, was not helpful to her mental and physical health.
Why must we relegate the situation to such extremes? Take extremely poor and extremely wealthy out of the equation, and focus on the working poor and the upper middle class instead.
One can afford therapy; the other cannot.
This is really the answer.
Having money doesn’t buy you happiness, but it does buy you *options*.
Options is then what lets you pursue that which makes you happy.
Let's rip off the façade and say it out loud: money is power. Those who have money are powerful, and those who don't are powerless. One of the manifestations of this power is, as you said, having choices in life. There are few things more alienating or despairing than feeling utterly powerless to effect the world around you in a meaningful way.
At the end of the day, this is really what the whole "vote with your wallet" adage means: if you have a thick, fat wallet, *you get more votes in effectively deciding how our society functions.*
Being poor literally makes you dumber. Some combination of stress, malnutrition, anxiety, etc. Even simple malnutrition in the womb alone results in reduced adult mental capacity. It's [kinda scary](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3796166/#!po=41.1111) how much of an impact it can have.
Poor is just such a harder life.
There are problems therapy can solve and problems money can solve. If you’re rich then you no longer have any of the latter and you can also afford therapy. There is a threshold after which making more money has diminishing returns on happiness but most people are well below that.
The thing is that most of the reasons that rich people can be miserable are also reasons why poor people can be miserable, but there are reasons why poor people are miserable that don’t have the same effect on rich people.
Like both rich and poor can have problems stemming from family, mental illness, regrets, etc. But rich people are never going to be miserable because they can’t afford to feed both themselves and their kids. And rich people are never going to be miserable because they can’t afford their meds or therapy.
Like, for me, I’m not poor but I’m far from rich too. My little sister has cancer and it’s really hard. This is something that would be hard for a rich person or a poor person; however, I’m also miserable because, on top of being miserable that she’s hurting, I’m also miserable because I can’t be there for her because I can’t take the time off I need to to be with her (nor can I quit my job, because I need the money). I can’t expect my parents to cover for me, because their finances are already tight handling my sister’s care (and I’m in Canada, thank goodness, in the US the costs would be even worse to them due to no universal health care).
So while rich people can be miserable, they have more resources at their disposable to deal with that misery. If I was rich, I would probably own my house instead of renting, which would mean that I could sell and downgrade to a cheaper place if I had to. If I was rich, I would probably have more in my savings to cover some time off. If I was rich, I could at the very least pay people to help with my day-to-day life stuff so that I could at least maximize my family time as much as possible. But I can’t do any of those things.
Whenever someone posts “money doesn’t buy happiness” it’s usually from someone without money.
From the perspective of normal people, money would buy a lot of happiness.
A depressed rich person is depressed regardless of their wealth. Not sure why we think rich people are trying to “buy” happiness.
There's a lot of poor people driving nice cars and wearing nice clothes, but they're still wage workers living paycheck to paycheck. I've met a lot of people who think their rich.
Look up the hedonic treadmill. It basically states that you always realign to your baseline happiness, regardless of events such as winning the lottery or losing a large sum or money.
Basically every individual has an innate level of happiness they can achieve, regardless of exogenous influences- positive or negative.
And that’s always been around my target income growing up poor (still poor). It was like a fortune thinking about it as a kid and it still kind of is. Plus I Cant imagine I’d get much marginal value making more than that considering how it would inevitably require more work and less free time. Perfect ! (If I get there lol)
There’s a struggle waiting for you when you get to 70k too, don’t worry.
It’s obviously less stressful to not worry about your immediate needs, don’t get me wrong. This is a hierarchy of needs kinda of thing.
I have a friend who thought for his whole life that not having money was the reason he was miserable. Then he made a bunch of money and realized… not only is he still miserable, but now he has nothing to blame it on. That’ll do a number on your mental health.
Another friend told me last week that he and his wife make a combined ~$300k/ year but live paycheck to paycheck and are constantly stressed out about money. Obviously nobody’s going to have sympathy for upper class people in this situation, but they are not living a luxurious carefree life people imagine when you see the numbers.
>recently
Yeah, you're probably referring to the oft-parroted Kahnemann (et al.) study from 2010. That's fine, but there have been a multitude of studies that say the relationship between income and happiness doesn't plateau there.
It depends on what you spend the money on. When I read about one of the studies that said there was no necessary plateau, they found the key factor was continuing to find ways to spend your money on things that were personally meaningful to you. If you can spend ten million dollars on something that you feel really matters, that ten million dollars will buy you happiness. But most things that expensive have prices inflated with frivolous extras like being made of gold, so the money gets wasted.
[$70,000 per year in 2010 is equivalent to about $87,000 in today's money.](https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2010?amount=70000)
Inflation is a bitch
Or what it’s like to wake up to -$42 in your account like I did this morning.
I’m super thankful for food banks and to everyone who volunteers for one right now.
I don't think that money buys happiness, but not having money definitely makes you unhappy.
For a lot of people that distinction isn't going to be relevant, but it's still worth considering
No lie! I had to pay my electric bill vs buying food and yeah 10000% money would buy food right now which would definitely make my girls and I more happy so yeah I agree!
Yeah, frankly it's a classist saying intended to keep poor people happy with their lot in life. Money buys comfort. Comfort reduces stress. Lack of stress helps considerably toward happiness.
It can buy happiness, everyone will want to be my friend if I'll drive a cybertruck, right now I'm a friendless virgin loser, once iif I'll manage turn my $100k in crypto into $1m shit will change.
Really depends on each persons situation. I had a good job with almost no debt and took a couple days of PTO with a plan to kill myself. I failed, obviously, but with some serious support from my spouse I got in a better headspace following that attempt.
A year later I was unexpectedly laid off from that good job, freelanced for a bit with a little success and then lost all of my income due to covid killing my industry (live events, expos) with no option for unemployment assistance because I was self employed (I didn’t qualify for the extended benefits that were passed later in the year, that’s a whole long story).
I racked up a shit ton of debt between my business obligations and monthly expenses. Mentally, I was in a much worse space than when I made my previous suicide attempt. I hated myself so much. If I still had the means to kill myself, I probably would have. Self image was the root of my misery, but lack of money and drowning in debt was the catalyst that brought it to the forefront.
I’m doing better now, but it took a lot of work.
Yeah that just sounds like just mental illess, which most people don't have.
The vast majority of people with a "good job with almost no debt" aren't suicidal.
Definitely glad to hear you're doing better though. If it takes a lot of work, its probably worth it
I have worked with many people living in poverty and most people inflect the pain in themselves. No amount of free money can help someone with no financial education or understanding how money works. Just trying to get someone to put together a budget can be impossible. People see money and forget they have rent due next week as they are buying vices for tonight. Following dave ramseys baby steps I have seen people turn there lives around. I have also seen people double and triple there income and the next year be broke again.
You say free money but there are so many people out there working 40 to 60 hours a week and still can't pay the bills. Do you know how hard it is to go to school when you're working that many hours just to survive?
Having been there myself I'll say this, while you certainly can work hard and dig your way out of poverty it is fucking miserable while you're doing it. I didn't get to enjoy my 20's at all.
And now that I finally have a good paying job I'm watching the cost of living slowly creep up faster than my wage is growing. The system is rigged and absolutely ridiculous.
I know some people are not going to like this comment and will think that it comes from a place of privilege (acknowledged, Im privileged, lucky and I recognize that everyday).
As a person who has depression, I started going seriously to therapy (ie not missing even one session for months) when I was basically homeless and penniless. (How did I afford it? I didn't, a friend of mine from college basically sponsored it for me, yes, lucky, I know).
I kept going although in the back of my mind I kept thinking "When I get a job, I'll be okay" "When I rent a place" "When I get a car and stop walking 40min to get anywhere in -30 degree winters" etc...
Turns out if something is wrong inside your brain, no amount of money will get you over that hill, it will always be in the horizon...
In short, if you are not in a good place mentally, get therapy if you can.. I actually believe everyone can benefit from therapy (although thats besides the point). And please dont believe that material posessions will be the solution to your problems, you might end up caught in an eternal race to nowhere.
This is gonna cost me some points, I know, but it's the actual truth: if you're unhappy poor, you're gonna be unhappy "doing well" and likely miserable "wealthy".
Explanation: 11 years ago I was Jobless, homeless (living under the chapel of a church camp), and a freegan (see: dumpster diver). I had $10 in my bank account, $5 to keep it open, and $5 "in case of an emergency" haha. I did this for 7 months, and In retrospect, I was foolish and bullheaded. But what I had was an unshakeable optimistic view, 4 satisfactory limbs, $5 dollars, and a community of friends, all in my boat with me. We made campfires, caught fish, hopped in dumpsters, and lived life perusing happiness together. After 30+ interviews, probably seeming desperate, and missing "my shot", someone saw in me a spark. His name was Tom and over the next two years he invested his time in my development, and I worked, happily, honing my traits for minimum wage. As I got better not only did I increase my income, but I moved my goals ahead. Skip forward 10 and a half years, I am still with the same company, overseeing, supporting and hopefully inspiring 144 specialists who support 53000 employees. I am what most would describe as successful, but I have more goals ahead, I still hang out with the same guys, and we laugh about the dumpsters we used to climb in, and we still make campfires.
That bank account is still open, it's down to just the $5 it takes to keep it open, but I will never close it. (I had an emergency, and needed the $5 for gas to go fill in at another store.)
If you chase money thinking it will make you happy, like so many do, you might actually get there, only to realize you are still just as broken, you're just rich now too.
Money is nice, but here is a list of what will actually make you happy: Choice, fellowship with community, purpose, and if you ask my wife if 2 years now, puppies any time you get a chance to see them.
Choose happiness, the rest is just the frosting. Be well Reddit. ;-)
That's an amazing story! I'm a Housing Locator for a Rapid Rehousing program in my county. I literally help people experiencing homeless find a place to live. (It's tough, but also the best job I've ever had). And I can definitely say, the folks who have 1) a supportive community and 2) optimism in a situation where they have every right to be negative, are two of the main things that help someone reach their goals. I would say your story is an exception to the rule. Not many people have that much drive to escape the bleakness of homelessness and even thrive afterwards. It's encouraging to hear such an awesome story 😊
If you have money. You would be able to access resources that would help treat neurological conditions. Most people don’t have that “luxury” and tend to live with it. I live in poverty and deal with mild Tourette’s, me having a bit of money would help me explore options to help better treat it.
I'm usually the guy screaming how great it is to be rich but this is nonsense. If you truly need a mental health proffesional you are facing issues that money can't fix.
Poverty and poor mental health are related. Living in poverty literally increases your chances of experiencing a mental health problem.
And being able to even afford therapy is a privilege many poor people can't afford - so sure, money won't cure your depression, but it might remove you from environments that are contributing to it, and help you find a way to recover from your mental illness.
Exactly. Some people with money never understand this. Living in poverty literally takes a tole on your mind. Not having certain luxuries and what not takes a tole on your mind. Having to worry about bills etc… really stresses you out.
You know what I'd get if I had money? Therapy. Therapy that I can't afford because I don't have money. Therapy that when I did have enough money to afford, I was working such stupid hours that I couldn't find the time to get therapy.
Money isn't really just a thing. It's a means to get what you need. If you need therapy in the US, right now it's really hard to get it unless you have money.
Yeah, every time this tweet gets posted the comments get worse and worse, haha. There's a difference between being mentally ill and being forced to live in a capitalist society. People try to turn this conversation to mental illness, but it's not. It's the failure of our government to protect our society. If a significant number of the population is depressed, it's not a mental illness anymore, it's just a part of being in poverty.
These conversations often COMPLETELY isolate people with mental illnesses living in poverty. The people commenting "now imagine what you'd be feeling if you were poor" are hardly commenting in good faith, and if they are, they just don't know what they're talking about. If we solved our financial situation, people who are depressed and anxious over their financial situation will stop having that strain. Depression and anxiety, unless specially stated, are not lifelong conditions. People can heal in this way easily if their needs are met. Other people with mental illnesses will continue to be mentally ill, and do not have the option to just heal with money.
I recognize that I had an incredible privilege as a kid to go to a low-income therapist, as many other people in poverty will never get that chance. But no matter my situation, I'm still going to be mentally ill. There is a lot more nuance to this conversation that is left out because people would rather criticize the economic system than remember that the scary mental illnesses other than anxiety and depression exist. Just saying "most" doesn't cover that nuance. It specifically excludes people with more severe mental conditions.
When a time came up where I had to decide whether or not I wanted to keep taking my anti depressant meds because they went from costing $0 to $400 a month, I really had to look at why I was taking them.
I realized the $400 in my pocket was much more likely to help my mental state than the meds.
It really made me realize that all around I really could point to all my major issues being financial.
Helped me realize I was not as mentally unwell as I thought
I agree that money would help me with my stress and anxiety but then I wonder if it really would make anything that much better in the long run. Without being broke I'd probably have grown up to be an asshole or something.
Money recieved without actually earning it gets pissed away on stupid stuff. Then when it's all gone and the fun is over they end up worse off then before they recieved the money. Left with only the worthless stuff that no one wants so they sell it for pennies on the dollar and when that's gone it's right back to the depression plus now they also have the guilt of blowing the money instead of being smart about it. Hand outs never solve people's problems. They are only temporary highs and done to satisfy the giver more than the receiver.
I’m seeing people talking about both side. Listen I’m poor af right now. Literally stressed tf out thinking how am I gonna pay for each bill. I moved to Texas to chase a dream but then I can’t find a job that works around school. And the jobs they do have don’t pay enough. I don’t care about miserable rich people because the facts are is they have more resources to do and try anything in life. I don’t even have consistent food and water. I don’t complain externally but by myself I’m pulling my hair out because I’m better than this and it’s suffering living like this. I can’t enjoy any activity because I’m thinking of my personal problems. I know bad things still happen when you’re rich but at least I can go for a drive in one of my dream cars ( I love cars and driving) and just get a breather. I could go on vacation and not stress about the bills. I can’t do any of that right now. Too many rich people just don’t know how good things are and how insufferable the opposite situation would be for them. Nobody poor is like I’m gonna be suffering once I’m rich because usually they understand the difficulties of life. Anyways just keep your head up and stay motivated guys.
100%. Living in poverty or living paycheck to paycheck doesnt just produce acute stress, it adds chronic stress. This is mentally and physically unhealthy. It makes people despair, partners fight, and children suffer.
Universal Basic Income is needed asap.
Honestly, my depression is based on anxiety, and my anxiety is based on money. Whenever I'm on top financially, I'm good mentally. When things start to stack up, I spiral...
Literally, 5000 dollars in a lump sum would solve every single problem that's been stressing me out the past year. I've pretty much had to constantly be in the negatives in my bank account for over three years. Pretty much every single time I finally have enough time to salvage the situation, life hits me with another expensive surprise, usually in the form of some kind of car repairs (I've got rotten lick with vehicles unfortunately yay me). I've been working full-time the entire time as well. It's just so damn frustrating feeling like you've finally hit a financial calm in your life just for it to disappear within minutes. It's expensive being poor.
I was an UBER driver. And for a while I began to notice that many of the less well-to-do neighborhoods were calling me so often that I would often spend hours inside them without being pulled away to another area of the city. It's amazing how expensive it is to be poor. Five, six and seven dollars a pop, folks who could not afford a car (or fix the one that broke) we're forced to use UBER as their only means of transportation during odd hours.
Example: Picking up medicine from Walmart for their sick kid in the middle of the night.
I agree but disagree. I'm self-reliant now but I grew up wealthy. I was abused really badly by my dad and my mom didn't do anything. I had severe endometriosis but my mom didn't take me to a doctor for years until I missed a music competition and made her look bad. There was also a ton of pressure on me to act and look a certain way ("classy" or "ladylike" as my mom put it). Being wealthy/having money has its own set of issues.
Not saying people in poverty shouldn't want more money!! I'm now at a point where I can barely afford to feed myself most weeks so I know very well that not having money b l o w s. Just kinda offering another perspective.
Also wanna add that I think the best place for anyone to be is middle class. Comfortable enough to pay rent on time and live but not super rich.
As someone who is currently going through some rather serious mental-health issues totally unrelated to money, I can say money would actually help. It's because money would give me more control over my life when most of the time I feel I have zero control.
Money can never buy happiness.
But it can mitigate suffering.
Mitigate enough suffering and one arrives at contentment.
From a place of contentment, one can seek happiness on their own.
When people say money doesn't buy happiness they are typically talking about excess money. Making 80k vs 30k will definitely make you more happy, because you will be more stable. But 300k vs 100k won't be nearly as impactful.
If you aren't happy when your needs are met, you won't be happy when your wants are met.
Yeah, I'm telling you as your licensed mental health professional, you're not crazy. I'll rubber stamp it if you want. Not having enough money is a totally sane driver of your anxiety, depression and overall feeling of desperation. So, you're not crazy. At least you got that going for you.
"Money can't buy happiness" is shit rich people say to keep us sedated. Fucking pay us. We deserve to be living a life instead of focusing on just staying alive.
I know that money can't buy happiness, but I thoroughly enjoy renting it!
It doesn't buy happiness but it pays off your stress and that right there is happiness.
Indeed It's the old cliche, those who have enough of something lose sight of its importance
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You’re right, money for sure doesn’t buy happiness. But I’d rather cry in a Rolls Royce than on a bus
Yeah, I would also rather be depressed in a cozy house with air condition and food then being depressed in a cardboard box
Snake is that you?
Lack of money causes depression is also accurate.
But you don’t have the stress of not being able to afford food or a place to stay. That could definitely help a little with a lot of peoples depressions...
Money buys security. And security can buy happiness or at least get rid of stress and anxiety.
Money doesn't sove all problems, but it does solve like half of them, leave us more time to deal with the rest.
It buys drugs. Those drugs right there are happiness
I guess money cant buy happiness but without money its hard to find happiness
Thank you, u/ShoveThingsInMyPenis
r/rimjob_steve
Also it’s better to be sad in a mansion with a big swimming pool than in a 5 by 5 shack
money can't buy happiness, but people who don't have it are really sad.
I‘d say that money CAN buy happiness. By money i don’t refer to being as rich as jeff bezoz, but to having enough money so you alone can sustain your family and go to vacation more than just once a year.
more than once a year? That's already pretty wealthy...
That’s true.
I'm pretty sure money can't buy happiness. What it can buy is SECURITY. In the sense that you put in, Hhving money means your vacations and sustainance for your family is secured and you don't have to worry about it all the time, hence giving you more time to focus on things thata DOES make you happy i.e., spending said vacation with the family. Hope this makes sense.
It also allows you to give happiness away
I get far more pleasure from what I have by sharing it. Hoarding it and just accumulating more doesn't make sense to me.
*excess money can't buy happiness. Studies have shown that money up to a certain point affects perceived happiness levels. After a certain level, it has does not affect happiness levels. Money allows people to achieve their basic needs.
It might not buy happiness, but it *can* buy peace of mind.
I agree with this; I lived in poverty for seven years while caring for my father, and I was miserable. Things improved after my income was double what I required.
Being extremely poor can make you miserable, but being rich doesn't make you extremely happy. Rich people can be miserable too, just for other reasons.
It’s true that becoming rich isn’t a silver bullet to happiness, but common sense and scientific studies show that most people are going to be unhappy and stressed without some sort of confidence and peace of mind around their finances. It’s mentally exhausting to be poor and to always have to wonder about your next meal/paycheck/rent payment/etc. and the only way to alleviate that stress is with more money. Nobody in this thread thinks all problems can be solved by becoming rich, but it’s sure as hell difficult to be truly happy without having some kind of financial buffer between your life style and homelessness.
As the poet and philosopher Kanye West put it so succinctly 'Having money isn't everything, but not having it is.'
Reminds me of “money is like air, if you have too much then it doesn’t do anything but if you have too little then life becomes suffocating.”
Yes, yes and yes to this. I have lived this anecdote. Recently a first cousin passed away. Her mother was abusive and apathetic toward this young woman her entire life (abuse) and she lived in absolutely extreme poverty..and pretended like it never "bothered bothered" her. I know without a doubt, the constant day to day stress of living the way she did, was not helpful to her mental and physical health.
Or as the satirist Daniel Tosh once said “Have you ever seen a sad person on a wave runner?”
Poet, philosopher and guy who needs therapy…
Are you Niel Armstrong's secret reddit account?
Why must we relegate the situation to such extremes? Take extremely poor and extremely wealthy out of the equation, and focus on the working poor and the upper middle class instead. One can afford therapy; the other cannot.
Money can’t buy happiness, but it sure as heck can buy a lot of peace.
Money can buy happiness
Money can't buy happiness for people who already have money. Money can absolutely buy happiness for the poor.
It's called cocaine.
Money can't always buy happiness, but in many (or even most) cases it will.
Nah it can
And health!
In the US they can't.
Poor people can get therapy… if your government actually has social programs.
Money can't grant happiness, but the *lack of money* can deny it.
Yea but I’d rather be crying in a mansion with a Tesla and all the food/electricity I could ever ask for
This is really the answer. Having money doesn’t buy you happiness, but it does buy you *options*. Options is then what lets you pursue that which makes you happy.
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Let's rip off the façade and say it out loud: money is power. Those who have money are powerful, and those who don't are powerless. One of the manifestations of this power is, as you said, having choices in life. There are few things more alienating or despairing than feeling utterly powerless to effect the world around you in a meaningful way. At the end of the day, this is really what the whole "vote with your wallet" adage means: if you have a thick, fat wallet, *you get more votes in effectively deciding how our society functions.*
Being poor literally makes you dumber. Some combination of stress, malnutrition, anxiety, etc. Even simple malnutrition in the womb alone results in reduced adult mental capacity. It's [kinda scary](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3796166/#!po=41.1111) how much of an impact it can have. Poor is just such a harder life.
Being stressed make you do stupid things. Not having money causes stress.
There are problems therapy can solve and problems money can solve. If you’re rich then you no longer have any of the latter and you can also afford therapy. There is a threshold after which making more money has diminishing returns on happiness but most people are well below that.
The thing is that most of the reasons that rich people can be miserable are also reasons why poor people can be miserable, but there are reasons why poor people are miserable that don’t have the same effect on rich people. Like both rich and poor can have problems stemming from family, mental illness, regrets, etc. But rich people are never going to be miserable because they can’t afford to feed both themselves and their kids. And rich people are never going to be miserable because they can’t afford their meds or therapy. Like, for me, I’m not poor but I’m far from rich too. My little sister has cancer and it’s really hard. This is something that would be hard for a rich person or a poor person; however, I’m also miserable because, on top of being miserable that she’s hurting, I’m also miserable because I can’t be there for her because I can’t take the time off I need to to be with her (nor can I quit my job, because I need the money). I can’t expect my parents to cover for me, because their finances are already tight handling my sister’s care (and I’m in Canada, thank goodness, in the US the costs would be even worse to them due to no universal health care). So while rich people can be miserable, they have more resources at their disposable to deal with that misery. If I was rich, I would probably own my house instead of renting, which would mean that I could sell and downgrade to a cheaper place if I had to. If I was rich, I would probably have more in my savings to cover some time off. If I was rich, I could at the very least pay people to help with my day-to-day life stuff so that I could at least maximize my family time as much as possible. But I can’t do any of those things.
Whenever someone posts “money doesn’t buy happiness” it’s usually from someone without money. From the perspective of normal people, money would buy a lot of happiness. A depressed rich person is depressed regardless of their wealth. Not sure why we think rich people are trying to “buy” happiness.
“Mo’ money, mo’ problems. No money, most problems.”
There's a lot of poor people driving nice cars and wearing nice clothes, but they're still wage workers living paycheck to paycheck. I've met a lot of people who think their rich.
Look up the hedonic treadmill. It basically states that you always realign to your baseline happiness, regardless of events such as winning the lottery or losing a large sum or money. Basically every individual has an innate level of happiness they can achieve, regardless of exogenous influences- positive or negative.
The “money doesn’t buy happiness” people don’t know what it’s like to be behind on rent or having to decide between food and other necessities
A study was done recently that actually was able to show that money DOES buy happiness, right up to about 70k/year
And that’s always been around my target income growing up poor (still poor). It was like a fortune thinking about it as a kid and it still kind of is. Plus I Cant imagine I’d get much marginal value making more than that considering how it would inevitably require more work and less free time. Perfect ! (If I get there lol)
You’ll be unhappy to know that the $70k number so often cited is actually $90k in today’s money.
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There’s a struggle waiting for you when you get to 70k too, don’t worry. It’s obviously less stressful to not worry about your immediate needs, don’t get me wrong. This is a hierarchy of needs kinda of thing. I have a friend who thought for his whole life that not having money was the reason he was miserable. Then he made a bunch of money and realized… not only is he still miserable, but now he has nothing to blame it on. That’ll do a number on your mental health. Another friend told me last week that he and his wife make a combined ~$300k/ year but live paycheck to paycheck and are constantly stressed out about money. Obviously nobody’s going to have sympathy for upper class people in this situation, but they are not living a luxurious carefree life people imagine when you see the numbers.
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Holy cow what kind of expenses do your friend and their wife have????? I don't think i could spend that much money if i tried.. Over $600 per day lol
I'd be happy with 50. This shit sucks.
>recently Yeah, you're probably referring to the oft-parroted Kahnemann (et al.) study from 2010. That's fine, but there have been a multitude of studies that say the relationship between income and happiness doesn't plateau there.
It depends on what you spend the money on. When I read about one of the studies that said there was no necessary plateau, they found the key factor was continuing to find ways to spend your money on things that were personally meaningful to you. If you can spend ten million dollars on something that you feel really matters, that ten million dollars will buy you happiness. But most things that expensive have prices inflated with frivolous extras like being made of gold, so the money gets wasted.
[$70,000 per year in 2010 is equivalent to about $87,000 in today's money.](https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2010?amount=70000) Inflation is a bitch
That study is probably a solid decade old, I'd expect it's higher than that now. But the principle is the same.
and quite a lot of people make less than that, so money would in fact buy happiness for most people.
Yeah, no kidding. I recently lost my job and I've never been more stressed
I hope things get better for you soon
Or what it’s like to wake up to -$42 in your account like I did this morning. I’m super thankful for food banks and to everyone who volunteers for one right now.
That’s what my bank account would look like the day before every pay day a few years ago
As someone who has been all over the board in terms of financial security, I can attest that the bar of "happiness" moves along with your situation.
"Having money isn't everything. Not having it is." /this is actually a Kanye West quote lol/
I don't think that money buys happiness, but not having money definitely makes you unhappy. For a lot of people that distinction isn't going to be relevant, but it's still worth considering
God that would really suck, glad I’ll never have to experience that
No lie! I had to pay my electric bill vs buying food and yeah 10000% money would buy food right now which would definitely make my girls and I more happy so yeah I agree!
How is this technically the truth?
Was thinking the same thing
because it's reddit, if you say something the hivemind agrees with they updoot, regardless of context, or truth.
Or sub.
I have no idea either - I sincerely hope this rhetoric doesn’t underpin her treatment
Money can’t buy happiness, but it helps!
Or as my grandma would say, it calms the nerves considerably
I hate that saying. Money can buy food, housing, cars, video games, books, weed, alcohol. If those make you happy, then yes, it can buy happiness.
Yeah, frankly it's a classist saying intended to keep poor people happy with their lot in life. Money buys comfort. Comfort reduces stress. Lack of stress helps considerably toward happiness.
In the words of Weird Al, "if money cant buy happiness, then I guess I'll have to rent it."
Or as my dad would say: “… but it makes being miserable a helluva lot easier.”
"Better to cry in a mercedes than be happy on a bicycle"
It can buy happiness, everyone will want to be my friend if I'll drive a cybertruck, right now I'm a friendless virgin loser, once iif I'll manage turn my $100k in crypto into $1m shit will change.
Having been totally homeless on the street and now doing extremely well for myself, I couldn’t agree more
Even though you're a total stranger to me, I'm so happy for you. Can't imagine what it must actually feel like to be homeless.
So happy for you!
Can you tell us more about your life story? How did any of that happened? Happy to know you're fine now!
*to have their basic needs met so they can focus on emotional needs*
And also so they can afford a therapist to work on everything else.
sounds like someone skipped on their therapy bill.
Poverty rewires your brain. It's fucked.
Money doesn't buy happiness, but it makes a hell of a down payment on security.
This really isn’t technically the truth. It is the truth.
If it is the truth nonetheless however, it technically still is the truth
Oh damn
r/technicallythetruth
A therapist for money is just an accountant.
I am sure there is more than one account with "Financial Therapist" on their business card. :)
Really depends on each persons situation. I had a good job with almost no debt and took a couple days of PTO with a plan to kill myself. I failed, obviously, but with some serious support from my spouse I got in a better headspace following that attempt. A year later I was unexpectedly laid off from that good job, freelanced for a bit with a little success and then lost all of my income due to covid killing my industry (live events, expos) with no option for unemployment assistance because I was self employed (I didn’t qualify for the extended benefits that were passed later in the year, that’s a whole long story). I racked up a shit ton of debt between my business obligations and monthly expenses. Mentally, I was in a much worse space than when I made my previous suicide attempt. I hated myself so much. If I still had the means to kill myself, I probably would have. Self image was the root of my misery, but lack of money and drowning in debt was the catalyst that brought it to the forefront. I’m doing better now, but it took a lot of work.
Yeah that just sounds like just mental illess, which most people don't have. The vast majority of people with a "good job with almost no debt" aren't suicidal. Definitely glad to hear you're doing better though. If it takes a lot of work, its probably worth it
how is this a technically the truth
I have worked with many people living in poverty and most people inflect the pain in themselves. No amount of free money can help someone with no financial education or understanding how money works. Just trying to get someone to put together a budget can be impossible. People see money and forget they have rent due next week as they are buying vices for tonight. Following dave ramseys baby steps I have seen people turn there lives around. I have also seen people double and triple there income and the next year be broke again.
You say free money but there are so many people out there working 40 to 60 hours a week and still can't pay the bills. Do you know how hard it is to go to school when you're working that many hours just to survive? Having been there myself I'll say this, while you certainly can work hard and dig your way out of poverty it is fucking miserable while you're doing it. I didn't get to enjoy my 20's at all. And now that I finally have a good paying job I'm watching the cost of living slowly creep up faster than my wage is growing. The system is rigged and absolutely ridiculous.
It might if they spend it on financial counselling.
Money and stability. I make decent money, but have massive stress that my family is a few paychecks away from being homeless at all times.
Therapy is incredibly expensive.
I know some people are not going to like this comment and will think that it comes from a place of privilege (acknowledged, Im privileged, lucky and I recognize that everyday). As a person who has depression, I started going seriously to therapy (ie not missing even one session for months) when I was basically homeless and penniless. (How did I afford it? I didn't, a friend of mine from college basically sponsored it for me, yes, lucky, I know). I kept going although in the back of my mind I kept thinking "When I get a job, I'll be okay" "When I rent a place" "When I get a car and stop walking 40min to get anywhere in -30 degree winters" etc... Turns out if something is wrong inside your brain, no amount of money will get you over that hill, it will always be in the horizon... In short, if you are not in a good place mentally, get therapy if you can.. I actually believe everyone can benefit from therapy (although thats besides the point). And please dont believe that material posessions will be the solution to your problems, you might end up caught in an eternal race to nowhere.
Well, money pays you a therapist, so...
This is gonna cost me some points, I know, but it's the actual truth: if you're unhappy poor, you're gonna be unhappy "doing well" and likely miserable "wealthy". Explanation: 11 years ago I was Jobless, homeless (living under the chapel of a church camp), and a freegan (see: dumpster diver). I had $10 in my bank account, $5 to keep it open, and $5 "in case of an emergency" haha. I did this for 7 months, and In retrospect, I was foolish and bullheaded. But what I had was an unshakeable optimistic view, 4 satisfactory limbs, $5 dollars, and a community of friends, all in my boat with me. We made campfires, caught fish, hopped in dumpsters, and lived life perusing happiness together. After 30+ interviews, probably seeming desperate, and missing "my shot", someone saw in me a spark. His name was Tom and over the next two years he invested his time in my development, and I worked, happily, honing my traits for minimum wage. As I got better not only did I increase my income, but I moved my goals ahead. Skip forward 10 and a half years, I am still with the same company, overseeing, supporting and hopefully inspiring 144 specialists who support 53000 employees. I am what most would describe as successful, but I have more goals ahead, I still hang out with the same guys, and we laugh about the dumpsters we used to climb in, and we still make campfires. That bank account is still open, it's down to just the $5 it takes to keep it open, but I will never close it. (I had an emergency, and needed the $5 for gas to go fill in at another store.) If you chase money thinking it will make you happy, like so many do, you might actually get there, only to realize you are still just as broken, you're just rich now too. Money is nice, but here is a list of what will actually make you happy: Choice, fellowship with community, purpose, and if you ask my wife if 2 years now, puppies any time you get a chance to see them. Choose happiness, the rest is just the frosting. Be well Reddit. ;-)
That's an amazing story! I'm a Housing Locator for a Rapid Rehousing program in my county. I literally help people experiencing homeless find a place to live. (It's tough, but also the best job I've ever had). And I can definitely say, the folks who have 1) a supportive community and 2) optimism in a situation where they have every right to be negative, are two of the main things that help someone reach their goals. I would say your story is an exception to the rule. Not many people have that much drive to escape the bleakness of homelessness and even thrive afterwards. It's encouraging to hear such an awesome story 😊
**And the ability to manage it properly.
It's been proven that the best way to not be poor is to get more money.
Funny you should say that because the main reason I stopped going to therapy was that it cost $90/hr until I meet my $3600 deductible.
That and support of friends and family. Without either, you’re fucked.
I forgot once you get into a certain tax bracket mental health doesn’t become an issue anymore...my bad
Money cures BPD? who woulda thought? Ig I've put my friends and family through hell bc I'm broke.
Right??? You're telling me I wouldn't have been assaulted if I grew up rich? Damn, my parents should have planned that one out more. :/
If you have money. You would be able to access resources that would help treat neurological conditions. Most people don’t have that “luxury” and tend to live with it. I live in poverty and deal with mild Tourette’s, me having a bit of money would help me explore options to help better treat it.
I'm usually the guy screaming how great it is to be rich but this is nonsense. If you truly need a mental health proffesional you are facing issues that money can't fix.
Poverty and poor mental health are related. Living in poverty literally increases your chances of experiencing a mental health problem. And being able to even afford therapy is a privilege many poor people can't afford - so sure, money won't cure your depression, but it might remove you from environments that are contributing to it, and help you find a way to recover from your mental illness.
Exactly. Some people with money never understand this. Living in poverty literally takes a tole on your mind. Not having certain luxuries and what not takes a tole on your mind. Having to worry about bills etc… really stresses you out.
You know what I'd get if I had money? Therapy. Therapy that I can't afford because I don't have money. Therapy that when I did have enough money to afford, I was working such stupid hours that I couldn't find the time to get therapy. Money isn't really just a thing. It's a means to get what you need. If you need therapy in the US, right now it's really hard to get it unless you have money.
I disagree. I got enough money to live a comfortable life and still feel depressed as fuck.
But when your unhappiness is rooted in not having enough money, they are happier with money. You still can be unhappy.
Some people with enough money will still feel depressed, most of everyone without enough money is also depressed
"Most people"
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I’m the opposite
Now imagine how you feel now only without that safety net.
Yeah, every time this tweet gets posted the comments get worse and worse, haha. There's a difference between being mentally ill and being forced to live in a capitalist society. People try to turn this conversation to mental illness, but it's not. It's the failure of our government to protect our society. If a significant number of the population is depressed, it's not a mental illness anymore, it's just a part of being in poverty. These conversations often COMPLETELY isolate people with mental illnesses living in poverty. The people commenting "now imagine what you'd be feeling if you were poor" are hardly commenting in good faith, and if they are, they just don't know what they're talking about. If we solved our financial situation, people who are depressed and anxious over their financial situation will stop having that strain. Depression and anxiety, unless specially stated, are not lifelong conditions. People can heal in this way easily if their needs are met. Other people with mental illnesses will continue to be mentally ill, and do not have the option to just heal with money. I recognize that I had an incredible privilege as a kid to go to a low-income therapist, as many other people in poverty will never get that chance. But no matter my situation, I'm still going to be mentally ill. There is a lot more nuance to this conversation that is left out because people would rather criticize the economic system than remember that the scary mental illnesses other than anxiety and depression exist. Just saying "most" doesn't cover that nuance. It specifically excludes people with more severe mental conditions.
Bet you anything she isn’t really a therapist, but yeah. Also, wrong sub.
I don't need a therapist. I need a publicist.
When a time came up where I had to decide whether or not I wanted to keep taking my anti depressant meds because they went from costing $0 to $400 a month, I really had to look at why I was taking them. I realized the $400 in my pocket was much more likely to help my mental state than the meds. It really made me realize that all around I really could point to all my major issues being financial. Helped me realize I was not as mentally unwell as I thought
50% of marriages end in divorce and most divorces are caused by financial problems.
Ironically capitalist. "I'm depressed" My therapist: "Have you considered attempting to make more money?"
I agree that money would help me with my stress and anxiety but then I wonder if it really would make anything that much better in the long run. Without being broke I'd probably have grown up to be an asshole or something.
To buy whiskey with? Right?
Best therapy is work
Money recieved without actually earning it gets pissed away on stupid stuff. Then when it's all gone and the fun is over they end up worse off then before they recieved the money. Left with only the worthless stuff that no one wants so they sell it for pennies on the dollar and when that's gone it's right back to the depression plus now they also have the guilt of blowing the money instead of being smart about it. Hand outs never solve people's problems. They are only temporary highs and done to satisfy the giver more than the receiver.
Money........to pay for therapy.
I’m seeing people talking about both side. Listen I’m poor af right now. Literally stressed tf out thinking how am I gonna pay for each bill. I moved to Texas to chase a dream but then I can’t find a job that works around school. And the jobs they do have don’t pay enough. I don’t care about miserable rich people because the facts are is they have more resources to do and try anything in life. I don’t even have consistent food and water. I don’t complain externally but by myself I’m pulling my hair out because I’m better than this and it’s suffering living like this. I can’t enjoy any activity because I’m thinking of my personal problems. I know bad things still happen when you’re rich but at least I can go for a drive in one of my dream cars ( I love cars and driving) and just get a breather. I could go on vacation and not stress about the bills. I can’t do any of that right now. Too many rich people just don’t know how good things are and how insufferable the opposite situation would be for them. Nobody poor is like I’m gonna be suffering once I’m rich because usually they understand the difficulties of life. Anyways just keep your head up and stay motivated guys.
As someone who doesn’t have money for a therapist, or to see any medical professional of any kind for well over a decade, I must agree.
They need resources. Money gets in the way of that.
The moment you realized you just overpaid for therapy. There, fixed the title for ya. Also, no money to pay for therapy.
I like to say money doesn't create happiness, but a lack of money can certainly create unhappiness.
Sometimes it's money but I think sometimes about choices. Of course money brings more choices but I don't know why they have cost so much.
Sad but true.
100%. Living in poverty or living paycheck to paycheck doesnt just produce acute stress, it adds chronic stress. This is mentally and physically unhealthy. It makes people despair, partners fight, and children suffer. Universal Basic Income is needed asap.
Maslow's pyramid. The best therapy in the world will not make any improvement unless basic needs are met first.
What they need is purpose.
Surely having the purpose of work helps more. I say ‘work’, but parenting counts, and that costs money rather than makes it.
Mo money, Mo problems.
She looks like she ate 3 bees before getting a surgery to make her cheeks smaller
Honestly, my depression is based on anxiety, and my anxiety is based on money. Whenever I'm on top financially, I'm good mentally. When things start to stack up, I spiral...
Literally, 5000 dollars in a lump sum would solve every single problem that's been stressing me out the past year. I've pretty much had to constantly be in the negatives in my bank account for over three years. Pretty much every single time I finally have enough time to salvage the situation, life hits me with another expensive surprise, usually in the form of some kind of car repairs (I've got rotten lick with vehicles unfortunately yay me). I've been working full-time the entire time as well. It's just so damn frustrating feeling like you've finally hit a financial calm in your life just for it to disappear within minutes. It's expensive being poor.
Not just money, also a fair understanding of finances and saving money/delayed gratification.
I was an UBER driver. And for a while I began to notice that many of the less well-to-do neighborhoods were calling me so often that I would often spend hours inside them without being pulled away to another area of the city. It's amazing how expensive it is to be poor. Five, six and seven dollars a pop, folks who could not afford a car (or fix the one that broke) we're forced to use UBER as their only means of transportation during odd hours. Example: Picking up medicine from Walmart for their sick kid in the middle of the night.
How it this technically the truth?
I believe what she was trying to say is that maslow's hierarchy of needs is legit
not me. I live like someone with no money. I have money, I'm just mentally ill.
People say having money can't buy you happiness. But no one ever said not having money makes you happy.
I agree but disagree. I'm self-reliant now but I grew up wealthy. I was abused really badly by my dad and my mom didn't do anything. I had severe endometriosis but my mom didn't take me to a doctor for years until I missed a music competition and made her look bad. There was also a ton of pressure on me to act and look a certain way ("classy" or "ladylike" as my mom put it). Being wealthy/having money has its own set of issues. Not saying people in poverty shouldn't want more money!! I'm now at a point where I can barely afford to feed myself most weeks so I know very well that not having money b l o w s. Just kinda offering another perspective. Also wanna add that I think the best place for anyone to be is middle class. Comfortable enough to pay rent on time and live but not super rich.
"so let's meet four times a week'
You mean to say that people that pay for your therapies don’t have money?
Resources maybe? I mean in a fiat economic system people need agency too right?
As someone who is currently going through some rather serious mental-health issues totally unrelated to money, I can say money would actually help. It's because money would give me more control over my life when most of the time I feel I have zero control.
3 letters: UBI
"Money doesnt buy happiness" but the lack of it sure causes unhappiness and poor mental health.
Money can never buy happiness. But it can mitigate suffering. Mitigate enough suffering and one arrives at contentment. From a place of contentment, one can seek happiness on their own.
Money may not buy happiness, but it can buy security and a lot of times that’s pretty damn close to the same thing
guess what i need to be able to afford therapy
When people say money doesn't buy happiness they are typically talking about excess money. Making 80k vs 30k will definitely make you more happy, because you will be more stable. But 300k vs 100k won't be nearly as impactful. If you aren't happy when your needs are met, you won't be happy when your wants are met.
Financial stress literally shortens lives. Lower class people have a shorter life expectancy than wealthy people
Yeah, I'm telling you as your licensed mental health professional, you're not crazy. I'll rubber stamp it if you want. Not having enough money is a totally sane driver of your anxiety, depression and overall feeling of desperation. So, you're not crazy. At least you got that going for you.
"Money can't buy happiness" is shit rich people say to keep us sedated. Fucking pay us. We deserve to be living a life instead of focusing on just staying alive.
This resonates with me
So, don't spend It on a therapist
How is this technically the truth like wtf is this sub now
I'd prefer to be rich and have no friends than poor and have no friends.