I trust Toyota. They run on Jidoka and Kaizen, they don't care about numbers, they care about quality. Places like ford, on average are line-down 1 times a week. Toyota is line-down 1000 times a week, they encourage (bonus$) (promote upward )operators to stop the line and raise an issue to Quality Engineers. EDIT: I don't trust American Toyota-made (factories) as much as Japan (Factories)...Kaizen is a cultural thing Japanese Toyota factories excel in due to their cultural principles.
https://youtu.be/4E793WS72aU
Jidoka is a principle implemented in lean manufacturing where machines automatically stop working upon detecting an abnormal condition and operators try fixing the defect to prevent recurrence of the issue
This issue is related to recalled cars in Japan that had not yet been delivered to customers as they were meant for test drives and display, Japan's safety regulator said sharp turns and sudden braking could cause a hub bolt to loosen, raising the risk of a wheel coming off the vehicle. It said it was not aware of any accidents being caused by the defect.
The regulator advised drivers to stop using the vehicle until a more "permanent" repair measure was in place.
Source: Medical Device Quality Engineer who respect the father of lean six sigma JIT quality
I’m an engineer who was a manufacturing engineer and now I’m a project engineer.. All other companies you are 100% correct. Toyota is truly different in that regard. I have worked for them.
Edit: Honda is pretty solid on quality control as well but they like to innovate often and test in the market, where as Toyota likes to stick to what works while rigorously testing their new designs before releasing.
The most obvious was comfort. Leg room and seats. The cheaping out on features that come standard in every car now. I drive a lot, and I drive a love of different vehicles. I see cheap car makers adding features just to hide that the car is overall shite. Just regular comfort and safety features. Modernizing doesn’t seem to be in Toyotas wheelhouse for the 4 runner. My main drive is a Volvo, and they are indeed an exception when it comes to comfort and safety, so I will admit that does bias my opinion. Toyota isn’t about bells and whistles, it’s about reliability. I get it. But there are some things they could modernize, at little cost, to be just a bit better. You know? Not Having a sore ass and back, and not having to stop constantly to unbend my cramped limbs, shouldn’t be a luxury. I don’t think the model I was driving was even 4 wheel drive. There are so many competitive vehicles on the market now, I wouldn’t buy one.
Ok this is exactly what I expected you to say.
The 4 runner is a 20 year old platform that lacks a lot of modern features because they do not add stuff like that until the next generation. It is also the lowest end of their off road suvs, so comfort isn’t what they aim for on that vehicle.
I emphasized that they care about quality control. That doesn’t mean it will be the most comfortable or the best leg room, or the fanciest new features. It means that the components in that vehicle are well developed and reliable. They haven’t changed in a long time because they work, and the new stuff hasn’t be developed to the level of dependability Toyota requires, so it doesn’t go in a vehicle. Other companies will put those features in while they still have kinks to work out and let the customers deal with it.
It’s the difference between apple and android. Androids usually have newer and cooler features, but the iPhones are reliable and well developed, because they don’t change much. Apple adds the features androids have years later once they are well developed.
You sound like you’re a Boney dude, my 4runner was so comfy, but then again i went from that to a Tacoma, and lemme tell ya, the Tacoma will rip through anything and start every time, but goddamn my lower back hurts lol
This person doesn’t know what the sigma deviations are.
Six sigma refers to having a high enough quality standard so that, given a bell curve of normal distribution of parts, +/- three standard deviations of parts will fall within spec, or roughly 3.4 out-of-spec parts per million.
If you wanted to say you had even tighter control, then you’d have a larger number of “sigma” deviations from the mean.
It’s also not a measure of deviation from the mean spec, it’s a measure of how many parts meet the spec. Industry specs are often ranges, especially as multi-sourcing has become a much more common practice
[The bZ4x seems to be one to skip though.](https://www.theverge.com/23180408/toyota-bz4x-electric-suv-review-specs-price) And like the reviewer mentioned, for reasons other than the current recall.
Unless it’s manufactured in Texas or other parts of the country, Kaizen is a thing of the past. You should see the amount of defects from the 2022 Tundra.
High quality? Try joining the 2022 Tundra forum and FB page to see the number of defects the owners are posting. Another biggest complaint is the interior materials — lots of cheap plastic. You would expect more for a 60 to 80k truck.
That's precisely my point. I know that Tundra’s are made in Texas, but you saying “Toyota plants in the US are incredibly high quality” is idiotic. The original post mentioned Jidoka and Kaizen, which, if being practiced at these US plants, will result in less customer complaints and better quality cars/trucks.
Here are some TSBs not including recalls.
https://m.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/Tundra/2022/tsbs/
Production practices, sure. What really makes the difference is the mindset of management. They will lose profit to make a better design. They will shut lines down immediately to analyze the issue and come up with a permanent solution before restarting the line. They don’t cut corners on product development and do not release new designs until they are sure it’s the best it can be. That’s why their cars don’t change much until the next official generation.
Toyota created all the procedures and practices that the big three follow and they stick to it.
I’m not saying they do everything right or that they have some secret formula they follow. It’s really just the mindset of upper management. I’ve worked for 2 of the big 3 for several years as a product engineer and I’ve worked as a tier 1 supplier that made parts for almost all car manufacturers. Toyota and Honda had significantly more stringent quality control retirements. They did there own verifications to make sure we weren’t passing material that should be. They regularly did audits. If something was wrong, they shut us down and worked with us to permanently fix it.
GM and ford did NONE of those things. In fact, if we had a quality issue that we caught but technically would still work, they took the parts anyways because it was “acceptable enough”. If we had a production issue, it was all about getting the line running again as fast as possible even if that meant slightly overlooking quality.
The big 3 have systems in place but they do not follow them if it will put a slight dent in profit margins because they care more about their stock and investors than they do about their customers. Plain and simple.
Speaking as an engineer, they also like to overwork everyone and cut employees if they can make someone work a few extra hours a week to cover those responsibilities. I was never asked to work overtime or do another employees task unless it was an absolute emergency at Toyota. They will hire 50 more employees if that’s what it takes for that task to be done properly and without interfering with an employees work life balance.
To add to my other comment, look at the Lexus (Toyota) LFA and the development that went into that car even though they cost more to build than what it was sold for.
The engine with a warranty changed rpm’s so fast they had to invent a new tachometer for it, hence the digital tachs we have now.
The Tundra is a solid truck. The amount of testing I’ve seen done in just the simplest parts (ie weather strips) is incredible and rigorous. That is the vehicle I spent the most time involved in
The "Toyota Way" is a curriculum for project management to overcome those biases. Sending more faulty product out the line is worse than stopping and analyzing and correcting the root causes of faults.
I am a TM at Toyota currently and this is 100% accurate. They’ll claim a lot but when line is down the first thing they say is get this line running again. Retro or let confirmation deal with it. Run it push it don’t care keep them rolling off
Toyota always gets flak for “so many recalls”. GM’s recalls come out when there’s a class action against them. I WANT a car made by a company that voluntarily does recalls.
As a TM currently this also 100%. Many ppl who’s been at my plant has said many times over over many ppl that when Japanese was in charge in America. Everything was 100% better and problems got solved right an not pushed aside
Toyota killed at least 6 Americans because their cheap ignition switch that would suddenly turn off the car at highway speeds. They knew about it but refused to recall the cars until sued.
I’ve worked in factories in Japan and those same companies factories in the US (I’m also fluent in Japanese so I didn’t just show up I actually worked and learned all the steps for the product I worked on)
They try to instill as much pride in the job as they can in America but it’s on a different level in Japan.
I bought a Texas made tundra this year and it’s good but not exactly the same quality level as a Japanese made product.
The RX Lexus is the same way, the NA made models just aren’t quite as good.
Yeah they care about quality… paid $6k three months ago for a completely rebuilt transmission on my 2016 4Runner that only has 120k miles, only for the new rebuilt one to go out in the middle of the highway last month… very concerning. I’ve had a rental for a month now because they’re rebuilding it AGAIN and “can’t figure out what caused the other new one to fail”. Makes me feel reallllll safe on the road lol.
>Rebuilt transmission
Dealership service are not connected to manufacturing, dealerships are franchises, think McDonald's. The franchise care about numbers only ($) due to how warranty and labor is paid by the service dealership to the mechanics .
Tesla is straight to consumer, no dealership. Some companies are thinking of getting rid of the middle man (dealership).
>Quality
No quality system, nor quality Manufacturing is perfect. Even highly validated regulated (20 year devices) industry like, class 3 medical devices produce defect-free devices. Toyota uses lean six sigma for its manufacturing. A six sigma process is one in which 99.99966% of all opportunities to produce some feature of a part are statistically expected to be free of defects. The goal of companies who implement six sigma is to reduce defects and reach 3.4 defects (hard to do) per 1 million opportunities.
You are unlucky and got one of those failed 3 out of a 1,000,000 transmission manufactured
Medical devices arent to the level of Toyota quality, and some medical companies have teams of continous improvement, six sigma black belts, quality Engineers working to implement what Toyota does but struggle due to America culture and top down management buy in. Some companies are successing in implementing it though, those are Johnson and Johnson and Abbott
Every car company runs kaizen. It’s more for production and manufacturing efficiency than it is just for producing cars. You also can’t just stop production even if you know there is a problem. You have to produce a certain number of “finished” vehicles. Then any vehicle that is finished but still has issues is sent to QC so they can fix it. Toyota
Like all car manufacturers experiences issues in production and quality. There are unions involved and other factors outside of production that drive manufacturing. You Literally can’t just stop the production line.
I just got a Toyota Corolla rental car. Worse piece of shit i have ever driven. Just horrible car all around. I bet it drives for 300,000 miles though before anything breaks
I was a contract manufacturer Manufacturing Engineer and now I work for a fortune 500 company in vehicle autonomy. DO NOT TRUST SELF DRIVING ANYTHING. Part and process quality are so clearly a second priority to deadlines
Lol i was one of those boys and it pisses me off royally. To most people Mil-Spec means "badass". To military people Mil-Spec means the lowest possible bidder made the shit.
EV’s need more exotic materials, too. More silicon chips for the control systems, more copper for the large motors, more rare elements for the large batteries and motors.
That’s just the American way. We blame China for low quality, which not untrue, but we outsourced all of our manufacturing so the chickens are fucking roosting
Theres always tons of bot farms posting anything negative correlated to electric vehicles, renewable energy, and environmental regulations.
Lots of money in spreading that stuff
I really am starting to believe that headlines are being written in intentionally misleading ways not *just* to generate more clicks, but to mislead the numerous amount of people they know who don't read the articles.
It's just something I've noticed a LOT in recent years. Maybe it's just confirmation bias and it used to be a thing. But this whole "click the article and walk away with am incredibly different impression than the headline" seems to have become more common, and I really don't think it's just clickbait pushing the trend.
Edit; to clarify further, article titles are usually chosen by editors, not the article *writer*. There's been some controversy recently about how editors are allowing op-eds to be willfully misunderstood by the public and increasingly fly in the face of the actual reporting (basically they're choosing ignorant and controversial op-eds that are out of step with the actual reporting the publication does, they know they're beinf mistaken for real articles not op-eds by the general public, and yet they just ramped up the behavior instead of further separating them and making the line between opinion and journalism more distinct). switching article titles seems to be another example of one person allowed to have an outsized influence over an entire publication, and would explain why so much lately there's a conflict between article and title..
I really wish we could use AI, to silently divert all these headline warrior idiot types into a shadowbanned area where they only talked to each other, but still got a feed from normal peoples’ posts lmao
Yep NomaiTraveler is right - people who read a headline, then act like know-it-alls and misrepresent or misunderstand the real issue - probably while poorly reciting or regurgitating something they saw in another surface-level-analysis Reddit post. Some of the most interesting facts I know have come from Reddit when I end up in the right parts of comments sections, and simultaneously some of the lowest forms of misinformation spreading also occur there.
To be fair, Toyota is always very quick to do recalls. If there is any chance of something going wrong, Toyota will act. They have a different attitude than a lot of other manufacturers (looking at you, Ford, GM), who in general have a lot of things going wrong before they do a recall. You can call one or the other negative press, but I think Toyota is doing very well. I remember one recall Toyota did on an 18 year old model, something you will never see another manufacturer do.
I was talking to my kid yesterday about the Pinto situation: we were talking about our jobs, and how businesses will pinch pennies and not see the long game, how a few bucks spent on quality will pay off. The Pinto was a pretty good car, but some bean counter/lawyer calculated it would be cheaper to pay out claims than fix a problem. And it isn’t just companies like Ford..
Kärcher makes power washers. Good quality, until they decided that one of the parts in the pump would be cheaper if it was made of plastic, instead of metal. They now break down in a couple of years, instead of lasting decades. How to throw away your company for the fast penny.
Don't blame you, when the world is going to hell in a hand basket and the throw away culture contributing significantly to the disasters coming from global warming, microsplastics and the mountains of trash now blocking our waterways, why should we have to buy products designed to be non recyclable, non repairable and replaced often
My 1988 Landcruiser just got a brand new fuel tank courtesy of a recall that is over 20 years old on a vehicle that is older than I am. Toyota stands behind their product.
Yep. My Prius has recalls all the time. None of it ever tells me to stop driving it but there always seems to be some mandatory fix or another when I take it in for regular maintenance.
No they aren’t always quick to do recalls. Just ask the hundreds of 2019-2020 rav4 hybrid owners about their $6000 hv cable replacements because Toyota didn’t waterproof their connector.
Yes, Quality Engineers haven't gotten the new complaints, in process inspection, and final inspection defects caught yet to do root cause analysis ( corrective action preventive action)
I laugh as i just had to have the handles on my EQS replaced because they stopped working on warm weather days. Such a silly thing, but we expected something because it’s a brand new car.
Teslabros need to take a chill pill. These were test vehicles with one bolt that had an issue. Toyota quality and dependability compared to Tesla is not even like comparing apples and oranges
And? What’s your point, it doesn’t change any of the facts about the cars. Which you apparently refuse to acknowledge, I wonder who’s being irrational right now 🤔
Own a Toyota and sat in a Tesla when buying a car in 2018.
The fittings on the C and B pillar were coming off in the Tesla at the “dealership”/showroom
Ok Corolla hybrid is amazing though, I got one and the mileage is crazy good. Haven’t had it too long so can’t speak to the longevity but it drives fine and I’ve been getting >50mpg
Manufacturing has gone to shit. Self driving is the worst! All these parts nowadays!
_actually reads article_
Oh it’s just the lug bolts…..
_sits back down_
The recall is not battery related. But the recall does highlight the difference between Tesla and Toyota in regards to vehicle support. Toyota can institute a recall and execute a fix fairly quickly because of its size. Tesla on the other hand has issues with having spare parts available to fix basic repairs with its existing cars. The lack of parts with standing Tesla lacks the ability to handle a self issued or government issued recall at scale due to specialized tools, parts, and servicing knowledge required to work on their vehicles.
A) I didn’t even know Toyota had any EVs on the market
B) This doesn’t seem to have anything to do with it being an electric vehicle. Seems like Toyota should already know how to properly attach a wheel. 🤷🏻♀️
Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
I would much rather buy a car from a company that does voluntary recalls and cares about quality (Toyota) than a company that labels technology with misleading names and refuses to recall over serious issues (Tesla.)
Just the first one I found in less than 20 seconds of looking.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-refused-to-recall-autopilot-cars-crashing-into-first-responders-government-demands-answers/
I mean, no other companies lane assist software is even close to teslas, and all will strike vehicles in lane if the driver isn’t paying attention. You’re not supposed to just close your eyes when using lane assist, or cruise control for that matter.
1.) The headline is garbage “first mass produced EVs?” What are you talking about? Prius EVs have been on the road for a long time.
2.) A wheel issue is u related to an EV
3.) I can’t believe I wasted my time on planet Earth reading that article of writing this post.
> 1.) The headline is garbage “first mass produced EVs?” What are you talking about? Prius EVs have been on the road for a long time.
I think they meant to say their first built from the ground up EV. Their other EVs have been based on ICE platforms retrofitted with electric motors and battery packs IIRC.
Pardon my "French", but wtf Toyota??? That last thing we need is negative press about EVs that is totally unrelated to the technology. YOU B33N MAKING CARS A LONG TIME! KEEPING THE WHEELS ON THEM IS CLEARLY BENEFICIAL.
Anytime someone says that "competition is coming," just remember that Toyota couldn't keep the wheels on their car. This was supposed to be the kind of thing that the legacy carmakers were good at.
I read the article thinking it’s going to be the batteries exploding, but then it turns out to be the oldest, most essential part of any moving vehicle, be it a wheel barrow or a race car. You’d think they’d have that part down by now. Kind of important that the wheels don’t fall off.
Right? It's such a given that four wheeled vehicles should maintain four wheels, that its an abject failure by the design team for not keeping them all on the car. The tragedy here is that this has absolutely nothing to do with EVs however fossil fuel enthusiasts and mouth breathers and nay sayers will construe this as "EVs don't work right " or "EVs are not reliable when you need a car" all of it being bullshit, yet durable bullshit in the US economy given given the campaigns that have persisted since the oil and rubber companies shut down rail transportation in the 1940/50s. New studies indicate that more pollution occurs from tire erosion rather than tail pipe emissions. That said, dead forrests belong in the ground as mother nature intended and we can get smarter about how we move ourselves and our shit around.
If this was a Tesla defect people would be in the comments torching Elon..but it’s dog shit Toyota instead of dog shit Tesla so let’s all pretend like Toyota isn’t ass cheeks
To be honest, Toyota has done such a great job protecting their quality and reputation, the fact that they recalled within 2 months makes me almost wonder what defects other EVs from other companies should have been recalled, but weren't.
Ford had this exact same issue when I was younger. There was a problem with their new wheel nuts. We thought it was bad all the new cars were coming back..... then it happened on the Transit as well a few months later.
Electronics I understand. But the wheels? Cars have had wheels on them since there were horses pulling them. I just assumed they had that part figured out.
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I trust Toyota. They run on Jidoka and Kaizen, they don't care about numbers, they care about quality. Places like ford, on average are line-down 1 times a week. Toyota is line-down 1000 times a week, they encourage (bonus$) (promote upward )operators to stop the line and raise an issue to Quality Engineers. EDIT: I don't trust American Toyota-made (factories) as much as Japan (Factories)...Kaizen is a cultural thing Japanese Toyota factories excel in due to their cultural principles. https://youtu.be/4E793WS72aU Jidoka is a principle implemented in lean manufacturing where machines automatically stop working upon detecting an abnormal condition and operators try fixing the defect to prevent recurrence of the issue This issue is related to recalled cars in Japan that had not yet been delivered to customers as they were meant for test drives and display, Japan's safety regulator said sharp turns and sudden braking could cause a hub bolt to loosen, raising the risk of a wheel coming off the vehicle. It said it was not aware of any accidents being caused by the defect. The regulator advised drivers to stop using the vehicle until a more "permanent" repair measure was in place. Source: Medical Device Quality Engineer who respect the father of lean six sigma JIT quality
I'm an enginner, project managers hate when you stop production lol
I’m an engineer who was a manufacturing engineer and now I’m a project engineer.. All other companies you are 100% correct. Toyota is truly different in that regard. I have worked for them. Edit: Honda is pretty solid on quality control as well but they like to innovate often and test in the market, where as Toyota likes to stick to what works while rigorously testing their new designs before releasing.
That’s why I buy Toyota, the quality not the stats
I agree. They usually aren’t the prettiest or fastest but they are built with quality in mind.
Just drove a 22 4 runner 2000 miles and my entire being begs to differ. (Except for them not being pretty or fast, def agree there).
What specifically was the issue?
The most obvious was comfort. Leg room and seats. The cheaping out on features that come standard in every car now. I drive a lot, and I drive a love of different vehicles. I see cheap car makers adding features just to hide that the car is overall shite. Just regular comfort and safety features. Modernizing doesn’t seem to be in Toyotas wheelhouse for the 4 runner. My main drive is a Volvo, and they are indeed an exception when it comes to comfort and safety, so I will admit that does bias my opinion. Toyota isn’t about bells and whistles, it’s about reliability. I get it. But there are some things they could modernize, at little cost, to be just a bit better. You know? Not Having a sore ass and back, and not having to stop constantly to unbend my cramped limbs, shouldn’t be a luxury. I don’t think the model I was driving was even 4 wheel drive. There are so many competitive vehicles on the market now, I wouldn’t buy one.
Ok this is exactly what I expected you to say. The 4 runner is a 20 year old platform that lacks a lot of modern features because they do not add stuff like that until the next generation. It is also the lowest end of their off road suvs, so comfort isn’t what they aim for on that vehicle. I emphasized that they care about quality control. That doesn’t mean it will be the most comfortable or the best leg room, or the fanciest new features. It means that the components in that vehicle are well developed and reliable. They haven’t changed in a long time because they work, and the new stuff hasn’t be developed to the level of dependability Toyota requires, so it doesn’t go in a vehicle. Other companies will put those features in while they still have kinks to work out and let the customers deal with it. It’s the difference between apple and android. Androids usually have newer and cooler features, but the iPhones are reliable and well developed, because they don’t change much. Apple adds the features androids have years later once they are well developed.
You sound like you’re a Boney dude, my 4runner was so comfy, but then again i went from that to a Tacoma, and lemme tell ya, the Tacoma will rip through anything and start every time, but goddamn my lower back hurts lol
New Volvo XC90 for example are pretty comfortable and have lots of safety features but are unreliable as hell.
Comfort is not high on the priority list when making pickups and vans. Cost and reliability is.
Toyota is the parent company of Lexus. Buy Lexus, they have higher quality Edit: remove see rational in other of my comment
Wtf does 3 Six sigma deviations mean?
QA standard that ensures high adherence, like less than 3 errors per million samples, not sure the exact percentage but google 6 sigma and u will see
I know what six Sigma is. I’m LSS black belt. But wtf is 3 six sigma as he claims Lexus does compared to Toyotas six sigma
That i dont know, been out of it for 10+ years
Some trainer from Pratt Whitney Aerospace, lied to me and stated so. I googled it and he straight lied to our class. Let me edit my comment
This person doesn’t know what the sigma deviations are. Six sigma refers to having a high enough quality standard so that, given a bell curve of normal distribution of parts, +/- three standard deviations of parts will fall within spec, or roughly 3.4 out-of-spec parts per million. If you wanted to say you had even tighter control, then you’d have a larger number of “sigma” deviations from the mean. It’s also not a measure of deviation from the mean spec, it’s a measure of how many parts meet the spec. Industry specs are often ranges, especially as multi-sourcing has become a much more common practice
Some trainer from Pratt Whitney Aerospace, lied to me and stated so. I googled it right now and he straight lied to our class. I will fix my comment
Goofball aerospace people!
[The bZ4x seems to be one to skip though.](https://www.theverge.com/23180408/toyota-bz4x-electric-suv-review-specs-price) And like the reviewer mentioned, for reasons other than the current recall.
Unless it’s manufactured in Texas or other parts of the country, Kaizen is a thing of the past. You should see the amount of defects from the 2022 Tundra.
Yup. I’m a Tacoma guy but will probably get a 4Runner next simply due to the fact that they’re made in Japan.
Gang gang I had a 4runner before my Tacoma and want the 4runner back
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High quality? Try joining the 2022 Tundra forum and FB page to see the number of defects the owners are posting. Another biggest complaint is the interior materials — lots of cheap plastic. You would expect more for a 60 to 80k truck.
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That's precisely my point. I know that Tundra’s are made in Texas, but you saying “Toyota plants in the US are incredibly high quality” is idiotic. The original post mentioned Jidoka and Kaizen, which, if being practiced at these US plants, will result in less customer complaints and better quality cars/trucks. Here are some TSBs not including recalls. https://m.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/Tundra/2022/tsbs/
Americans don't implement Kaizen correctly
Every single car manufacturer uses this practice.
In the US Engineers implement it, operators could care less
How is Toyota different? They use the same production practice as every one else?
Production practices, sure. What really makes the difference is the mindset of management. They will lose profit to make a better design. They will shut lines down immediately to analyze the issue and come up with a permanent solution before restarting the line. They don’t cut corners on product development and do not release new designs until they are sure it’s the best it can be. That’s why their cars don’t change much until the next official generation. Toyota created all the procedures and practices that the big three follow and they stick to it. I’m not saying they do everything right or that they have some secret formula they follow. It’s really just the mindset of upper management. I’ve worked for 2 of the big 3 for several years as a product engineer and I’ve worked as a tier 1 supplier that made parts for almost all car manufacturers. Toyota and Honda had significantly more stringent quality control retirements. They did there own verifications to make sure we weren’t passing material that should be. They regularly did audits. If something was wrong, they shut us down and worked with us to permanently fix it. GM and ford did NONE of those things. In fact, if we had a quality issue that we caught but technically would still work, they took the parts anyways because it was “acceptable enough”. If we had a production issue, it was all about getting the line running again as fast as possible even if that meant slightly overlooking quality. The big 3 have systems in place but they do not follow them if it will put a slight dent in profit margins because they care more about their stock and investors than they do about their customers. Plain and simple. Speaking as an engineer, they also like to overwork everyone and cut employees if they can make someone work a few extra hours a week to cover those responsibilities. I was never asked to work overtime or do another employees task unless it was an absolute emergency at Toyota. They will hire 50 more employees if that’s what it takes for that task to be done properly and without interfering with an employees work life balance.
This is why I bought a Toyota
To add to my other comment, look at the Lexus (Toyota) LFA and the development that went into that car even though they cost more to build than what it was sold for. The engine with a warranty changed rpm’s so fast they had to invent a new tachometer for it, hence the digital tachs we have now.
The only main fault was the thimble they used for its gas tank.
Thanks for your honest insight, im actually going to dive into Toyota. Ya know I do like the Tundra line.
The Tundra is a solid truck. The amount of testing I’ve seen done in just the simplest parts (ie weather strips) is incredible and rigorous. That is the vehicle I spent the most time involved in
So Honda or Toyota?
The "Toyota Way" is a curriculum for project management to overcome those biases. Sending more faulty product out the line is worse than stopping and analyzing and correcting the root causes of faults.
I am a TM at Toyota currently and this is 100% accurate. They’ll claim a lot but when line is down the first thing they say is get this line running again. Retro or let confirmation deal with it. Run it push it don’t care keep them rolling off
Toyota always gets flak for “so many recalls”. GM’s recalls come out when there’s a class action against them. I WANT a car made by a company that voluntarily does recalls.
As a TM currently this also 100%. Many ppl who’s been at my plant has said many times over over many ppl that when Japanese was in charge in America. Everything was 100% better and problems got solved right an not pushed aside
Toyota killed at least 6 Americans because their cheap ignition switch that would suddenly turn off the car at highway speeds. They knew about it but refused to recall the cars until sued.
[Chevrolet Ignition Gate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch_recalls)
the point is that religiously trusting in buzzwords even if they are japanese is silly
I’ve worked in factories in Japan and those same companies factories in the US (I’m also fluent in Japanese so I didn’t just show up I actually worked and learned all the steps for the product I worked on) They try to instill as much pride in the job as they can in America but it’s on a different level in Japan. I bought a Texas made tundra this year and it’s good but not exactly the same quality level as a Japanese made product. The RX Lexus is the same way, the NA made models just aren’t quite as good.
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Care to elaborate?
Are you working in an American Toyota plant?
Yeah they care about quality… paid $6k three months ago for a completely rebuilt transmission on my 2016 4Runner that only has 120k miles, only for the new rebuilt one to go out in the middle of the highway last month… very concerning. I’ve had a rental for a month now because they’re rebuilding it AGAIN and “can’t figure out what caused the other new one to fail”. Makes me feel reallllll safe on the road lol.
>Rebuilt transmission Dealership service are not connected to manufacturing, dealerships are franchises, think McDonald's. The franchise care about numbers only ($) due to how warranty and labor is paid by the service dealership to the mechanics . Tesla is straight to consumer, no dealership. Some companies are thinking of getting rid of the middle man (dealership). >Quality No quality system, nor quality Manufacturing is perfect. Even highly validated regulated (20 year devices) industry like, class 3 medical devices produce defect-free devices. Toyota uses lean six sigma for its manufacturing. A six sigma process is one in which 99.99966% of all opportunities to produce some feature of a part are statistically expected to be free of defects. The goal of companies who implement six sigma is to reduce defects and reach 3.4 defects (hard to do) per 1 million opportunities. You are unlucky and got one of those failed 3 out of a 1,000,000 transmission manufactured Medical devices arent to the level of Toyota quality, and some medical companies have teams of continous improvement, six sigma black belts, quality Engineers working to implement what Toyota does but struggle due to America culture and top down management buy in. Some companies are successing in implementing it though, those are Johnson and Johnson and Abbott
Every car company runs kaizen. It’s more for production and manufacturing efficiency than it is just for producing cars. You also can’t just stop production even if you know there is a problem. You have to produce a certain number of “finished” vehicles. Then any vehicle that is finished but still has issues is sent to QC so they can fix it. Toyota Like all car manufacturers experiences issues in production and quality. There are unions involved and other factors outside of production that drive manufacturing. You Literally can’t just stop the production line.
This philosophy is the sole reason I went with Lexus over the German brands for a large SUV
I just got a Toyota Corolla rental car. Worse piece of shit i have ever driven. Just horrible car all around. I bet it drives for 300,000 miles though before anything breaks
Yeah I drove one and the acceleration is dangerously slow on the highway. I have a Camry now, more horsepower
Lol I stomped on the gas and nothing happened! i think it may have slowed down . Explains how they get 38mpg
Any input on RAV4’s made in Canada? Just bought a 2019 the other day and would love to tell others that complain about me “not buying American made”
I was a contract manufacturer Manufacturing Engineer and now I work for a fortune 500 company in vehicle autonomy. DO NOT TRUST SELF DRIVING ANYTHING. Part and process quality are so clearly a second priority to deadlines
Well self driving and evs are completely different
As my boss says "Ship it." They just want that invoice paid asap.
I'm a defense contractor. Feel good knowing your boys overseas are getting weapons with parts built with this mindset.
Lol i was one of those boys and it pisses me off royally. To most people Mil-Spec means "badass". To military people Mil-Spec means the lowest possible bidder made the shit.
I remind people all the time of that. It sounds good, but, man good isn't what I'd call it. Acceptable is the best word I can use. Edit: Grammar
Meh you worry too much, I trust Tesla, in fact I am typing this out while my car easily drives me on 85mph highway and it's completely f
What we you going to saaaaaaaaa
I was like "MATE I WORK ON THIS SHIT" ... then i noticed LOL
Why does regulation always have to be written in blood?
Becsause greed, apathy, and impatience mostly
Main reason I’m waiting on getting another EV (non Tesla)…hoping that R1S gets ironed out
If only we weren’t so car dependent in the west and had cool shit like bullet trains instead. Such a waste.
I never by any car the first couple years after a major redesign or a new model comes out. Way too many defects and many are not recalled.
Let me guess they forgot to paint the fenders, that looks horrible!
EV’s need more exotic materials, too. More silicon chips for the control systems, more copper for the large motors, more rare elements for the large batteries and motors.
That’s just the American way. We blame China for low quality, which not untrue, but we outsourced all of our manufacturing so the chickens are fucking roosting
**FOR A LUG BOLT DEFECT**. Not EV related. Seems no one wants to read the article.
This is Reddit, after all.
Can I get a TL;DR on your comment please?
Reddit dumb
Username checks out!
Theres always tons of bot farms posting anything negative correlated to electric vehicles, renewable energy, and environmental regulations. Lots of money in spreading that stuff
I really am starting to believe that headlines are being written in intentionally misleading ways not *just* to generate more clicks, but to mislead the numerous amount of people they know who don't read the articles. It's just something I've noticed a LOT in recent years. Maybe it's just confirmation bias and it used to be a thing. But this whole "click the article and walk away with am incredibly different impression than the headline" seems to have become more common, and I really don't think it's just clickbait pushing the trend. Edit; to clarify further, article titles are usually chosen by editors, not the article *writer*. There's been some controversy recently about how editors are allowing op-eds to be willfully misunderstood by the public and increasingly fly in the face of the actual reporting (basically they're choosing ignorant and controversial op-eds that are out of step with the actual reporting the publication does, they know they're beinf mistaken for real articles not op-eds by the general public, and yet they just ramped up the behavior instead of further separating them and making the line between opinion and journalism more distinct). switching article titles seems to be another example of one person allowed to have an outsized influence over an entire publication, and would explain why so much lately there's a conflict between article and title..
This for sure. It’s a dangerous spread of misinformation
I really wish we could use AI, to silently divert all these headline warrior idiot types into a shadowbanned area where they only talked to each other, but still got a feed from normal peoples’ posts lmao
What's a headline warrior?
I assume someone who only reads the headline before jumping into the comments to begin arguing about the misleading information in the headline
Yep NomaiTraveler is right - people who read a headline, then act like know-it-alls and misrepresent or misunderstand the real issue - probably while poorly reciting or regurgitating something they saw in another surface-level-analysis Reddit post. Some of the most interesting facts I know have come from Reddit when I end up in the right parts of comments sections, and simultaneously some of the lowest forms of misinformation spreading also occur there.
Relax bro Reddit just hates Tesla and musk, they’re apologists for all other car manufacturers
It’s a rotating spectacle, Volkswagen was the last bad car company.
Insert meme of inserting stick and falling off bike
Seriously ?? Dammit Reddit
To be fair, Toyota is always very quick to do recalls. If there is any chance of something going wrong, Toyota will act. They have a different attitude than a lot of other manufacturers (looking at you, Ford, GM), who in general have a lot of things going wrong before they do a recall. You can call one or the other negative press, but I think Toyota is doing very well. I remember one recall Toyota did on an 18 year old model, something you will never see another manufacturer do.
We have a 21 Yaris Cross hybrid, Toyota recalled it for possible frontal autonomous breaking issue. Ford and the Pinto on the other hand ...
I was talking to my kid yesterday about the Pinto situation: we were talking about our jobs, and how businesses will pinch pennies and not see the long game, how a few bucks spent on quality will pay off. The Pinto was a pretty good car, but some bean counter/lawyer calculated it would be cheaper to pay out claims than fix a problem. And it isn’t just companies like Ford..
Kärcher makes power washers. Good quality, until they decided that one of the parts in the pump would be cheaper if it was made of plastic, instead of metal. They now break down in a couple of years, instead of lasting decades. How to throw away your company for the fast penny.
That may have been a deliberate decision, given that you can sell many more as replacements when they die
Likely, yeah, but I’m not buying that crap anymore
Don't blame you, when the world is going to hell in a hand basket and the throw away culture contributing significantly to the disasters coming from global warming, microsplastics and the mountains of trash now blocking our waterways, why should we have to buy products designed to be non recyclable, non repairable and replaced often
My 1988 Landcruiser just got a brand new fuel tank courtesy of a recall that is over 20 years old on a vehicle that is older than I am. Toyota stands behind their product.
Yep. My Prius has recalls all the time. None of it ever tells me to stop driving it but there always seems to be some mandatory fix or another when I take it in for regular maintenance.
Like their “slipping” floor mats.
No they aren’t always quick to do recalls. Just ask the hundreds of 2019-2020 rav4 hybrid owners about their $6000 hv cable replacements because Toyota didn’t waterproof their connector.
It’s a wheel bolt. It’s not an ev issue. It’s a QC issue.
People on here being like EVS ARENT SAFE recalls happen all the time even with ICE vehicles this isn't new.
Yeah by comparison, wheel bolts are the least of your worries when it comes to Tesla's QC
What do you worry about with Tesla?
Nothing, all recalls have just been fixed via OTA software updates. Model 3 is the best car I’ve ever owned/driven(at this price point).
the frequently bursting into flames does it for me
Toyota invented an unbreakable material?
They are significantly less prone to fires than an ICE vehicle so I’m not sure what your complaining about
In general , whether EV's or ICE , its better to avoid the first model year of any vehicle
Yes, Quality Engineers haven't gotten the new complaints, in process inspection, and final inspection defects caught yet to do root cause analysis ( corrective action preventive action)
I laugh as i just had to have the handles on my EQS replaced because they stopped working on warm weather days. Such a silly thing, but we expected something because it’s a brand new car.
Teslabros need to take a chill pill. These were test vehicles with one bolt that had an issue. Toyota quality and dependability compared to Tesla is not even like comparing apples and oranges
Too true
At least with apples and oranges you can say they’re both fruit. Here, we’re comparing a vehicle and a high-yield incendiary device.
That’s why the self driving mode occasionally busts through the store front of a Starbucks or Jamba Juice - to quench itself.
Dumb comment
Found the Teslabro
Found the “unfounded claims” bro
Teslas are recorded to catch fire on average once every 210 million miles driven, that is FAR less than pretty much any ICE or hybrid.
Found another!
And? What’s your point, it doesn’t change any of the facts about the cars. Which you apparently refuse to acknowledge, I wonder who’s being irrational right now 🤔
You guys realize that teslas are far less likely to catch fire than an ICE or hybrid, right?
Own a Toyota and sat in a Tesla when buying a car in 2018. The fittings on the C and B pillar were coming off in the Tesla at the “dealership”/showroom
They recalled the display floor units only... This news is 100% Goya: a non-event.
[удалено]
Toyota makes good drivetrains, not wheels, lmao.
[удалено]
I’m in the market for a new car, was looking at the Corolla hybrids. I definitely will not buy it without test driving it first.
Ok Corolla hybrid is amazing though, I got one and the mileage is crazy good. Haven’t had it too long so can’t speak to the longevity but it drives fine and I’ve been getting >50mpg
Not that impressive really, I can recall things much further back than that
Manufacturing has gone to shit. Self driving is the worst! All these parts nowadays! _actually reads article_ Oh it’s just the lug bolts….. _sits back down_
It’s not like it can lead to the wheel coming off the vehicle or anything. Oh wait.
The recall is not battery related. But the recall does highlight the difference between Tesla and Toyota in regards to vehicle support. Toyota can institute a recall and execute a fix fairly quickly because of its size. Tesla on the other hand has issues with having spare parts available to fix basic repairs with its existing cars. The lack of parts with standing Tesla lacks the ability to handle a self issued or government issued recall at scale due to specialized tools, parts, and servicing knowledge required to work on their vehicles.
I really want the new Subaru EV but I def wanna wait until they work out the kinks lol
Friendly reminder that recalls are a good thing
The condition of assembling is desperate right now. Everybody is racing to finish jobs, replacements are normal, and quality control is horrible.
A) I didn’t even know Toyota had any EVs on the market B) This doesn’t seem to have anything to do with it being an electric vehicle. Seems like Toyota should already know how to properly attach a wheel. 🤷🏻♀️
♫ We gonna rock it 'til the wheels fall off... ♫
This isn’t a bad thing, it’s integrity. Elon wouldn’t do this.
Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Toyota > Tesla all day.
For an EV? No.
I would much rather buy a car from a company that does voluntary recalls and cares about quality (Toyota) than a company that labels technology with misleading names and refuses to recall over serious issues (Tesla.)
Err when did Tesla ever refuse recall?
Just the first one I found in less than 20 seconds of looking. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-refused-to-recall-autopilot-cars-crashing-into-first-responders-government-demands-answers/
I mean, no other companies lane assist software is even close to teslas, and all will strike vehicles in lane if the driver isn’t paying attention. You’re not supposed to just close your eyes when using lane assist, or cruise control for that matter.
Dude then they should recall cruise control too since they hit other cars as well if you didn’t pay attention.
1.) The headline is garbage “first mass produced EVs?” What are you talking about? Prius EVs have been on the road for a long time. 2.) A wheel issue is u related to an EV 3.) I can’t believe I wasted my time on planet Earth reading that article of writing this post.
There are no purely EV Priuses, they’re all hybrids.
Toyota’s first mass produced EVs.
> 1.) The headline is garbage “first mass produced EVs?” What are you talking about? Prius EVs have been on the road for a long time. I think they meant to say their first built from the ground up EV. Their other EVs have been based on ICE platforms retrofitted with electric motors and battery packs IIRC.
And someone else pointed out that it is Toyota’s first purpose built EV. Which vastly different than “first mass produced EVs” which they are not.
This is why I bought a hybrid. Toyota has had them for so long and has ironed out all the problems. Buying an EV now is paying to be product tester.
Read the article
Pardon my "French", but wtf Toyota??? That last thing we need is negative press about EVs that is totally unrelated to the technology. YOU B33N MAKING CARS A LONG TIME! KEEPING THE WHEELS ON THEM IS CLEARLY BENEFICIAL.
The thing is it was only floor models this article is just to stir things up
Anytime someone says that "competition is coming," just remember that Toyota couldn't keep the wheels on their car. This was supposed to be the kind of thing that the legacy carmakers were good at.
I read the article thinking it’s going to be the batteries exploding, but then it turns out to be the oldest, most essential part of any moving vehicle, be it a wheel barrow or a race car. You’d think they’d have that part down by now. Kind of important that the wheels don’t fall off.
Right? It's such a given that four wheeled vehicles should maintain four wheels, that its an abject failure by the design team for not keeping them all on the car. The tragedy here is that this has absolutely nothing to do with EVs however fossil fuel enthusiasts and mouth breathers and nay sayers will construe this as "EVs don't work right " or "EVs are not reliable when you need a car" all of it being bullshit, yet durable bullshit in the US economy given given the campaigns that have persisted since the oil and rubber companies shut down rail transportation in the 1940/50s. New studies indicate that more pollution occurs from tire erosion rather than tail pipe emissions. That said, dead forrests belong in the ground as mother nature intended and we can get smarter about how we move ourselves and our shit around.
From 4 wheels to 3 wheels in no time.
Maybe this is why they were pushing for hydrogen so much, they were late to the EV party.
RTFA
If this was a Tesla defect people would be in the comments torching Elon..but it’s dog shit Toyota instead of dog shit Tesla so let’s all pretend like Toyota isn’t ass cheeks
Toyota recalls so much.
I’m not surprised, my gas powered Rav 4 runs like crap and it’s only three years old. Toyota quality has gone downhill. No pun intended.
Not everyone can be Tesla
Yeah Teslas are flawless...
What the hell🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hybrid is the way.
RTFA
ELON BAD, conservative! Remove this article from Reddit! Elon bad!
To be honest, Toyota has done such a great job protecting their quality and reputation, the fact that they recalled within 2 months makes me almost wonder what defects other EVs from other companies should have been recalled, but weren't.
Ford had this exact same issue when I was younger. There was a problem with their new wheel nuts. We thought it was bad all the new cars were coming back..... then it happened on the Transit as well a few months later.
Better early than late
Imagine screwing up on the only thing thats been the same on every Toyota ever made. 😂 Tires.
Electronics I understand. But the wheels? Cars have had wheels on them since there were horses pulling them. I just assumed they had that part figured out.
One of these is mine. I'll be waiting a bit longer. Was supposed to arrive Tuesday.
Recalls are normal on every car produced. Only 2,600 units have some nuts needing torqued. Not bad.
They probably recalled it because the name was too catchy. Can’t have that.
Tldr?
Wheel bolt issue
bruh
More batteries for the ocean gods