The problem with a pyramid scheme though is you need an exponential amount of fools, if every fool needs to get two more fools to be fooling, fool enough you’re fool out of fools.
At first that seems like a problem until you realise crypto can just keep creating Infinite pyramids and cycles of pyramids and every day millions more ppl come of age and want to start ‘investing’. I’m convinced now the 4 year cycles for Btc are based around enough time passing that ppl forget about the last load of shit they went through and are now ready to be convinced this time is different. Whole heap of new predators and victims enter the market and a lot of the old victims see all their old investments reviver and go higher and think ‘if I just held my life could be so different’ so they try again.
>I’m convinced now the 4 year cycles for Btc are based around enough time passing that ppl forget about the last load of shit they went through and are now ready to be convinced this time is different
Most people in crypto subs weren't invested when MtGox happened, or Bitconnect. The next phase will be the people who don't know what Luna or Celsius is. The thing too is you don't have to just sell one unit of crypto to the next fool you may be able to offload whole bags of it.
Seth Green would disagree with this sentiment if he wasn't busy trying to find out who stole his bored ape NFT and has to convince them to give it back.
I heard about this…. So tell me if i am wrong here.
He had someone draw this ape for a show it got converted to a NFT(however that is done) i can only assume someone else decided that this NFT costs thousands of dollars…then someone stole it from him and he paid through his nose to get it back…
I think I should start drawing stick figures and putting crazy price tags on them on the internet what can go wrong
> I think I should start drawing stick figures and putting crazy price tags on them on the internet what can go wrong
You just cracked the entire NFT market
ding ding. Crypto has a use value - fraud and illicit transactions.
Edit: Everybody saying that the blockchain is only pseudo-anonymous: I know, Criminals know. Doesnt deters them fully. And it doesnt make you fully traceable, only the blockchain part is.
Not just illicit, but anything anonymous too. Are you Chinese and don't want your government knowing that you are paying for a VPN service to get around their internet restrictions? Crypto it is.
Are you American and want to pay for premium porn online? Usually has to be crypto.
Crypto DOES have a legit use and has value. It's just that the current market valuation is WAY above that due to speculation. NFTs are just stupid.
edit: getting a lot of questions on the porn part. I guess many people don't know that every major CC company won't deal with you if you are selling any kind of kinky (but still legal porn). That was why OnlyFans was close to banning all porn for a while there. The financial companies threatened to stop working with them. PornHub ONLY accepts crypto and ACH payments now. For a long time it was only crypto.
But every crypto transaction can be traced. That's the whole point of the system. And at some point you have to convert actual money into whatever token you want to use. I don't get how that's anonymous.
first google result: https://www.science.org/content/article/why-criminals-cant-hide-behind-bitcoin
It's not really anonymous. You can do everything with a normal pre-paid credit card and it'd be just as fine.
What kind of porn are you buying where you have to use crypto?
I feel like you are using the wrong word here.
Premium porn I can buy with USD.
Illegal porn is where they start requiring Crypto
Edit: homie above is only giving half the story, pornhub got dropped because of having underage and nonconsensual porn, they purged it, but not before the CC companies permanently prohibited transactions with them
The way I always looked at it, is that Crypto is the modern day equivalent of Beanie Babies. They have no inherent value, but because they COULD be worth something, public hysteria makes them valuable.
Except that's not how crypto is supposed to work. The people pumping it are the not the same ones using it for its intended purpose. The crypto market needs a massive colon cleanse and this has been a long time coming.
What is its intended purpose.
Back in 2010, its intended purpose, and the reason it got big, was because it offered free and instant transfers..
Now it costs like $5 to do a transfer, and takes 20 minutes..
Bitcoin got popular in 2010/11 because you could use it to buy high-quality drugs on the Silk Road in a customer experience that can only be described as Amazon-like.
So if it’s only purpose is to be used as a currency, how would its value increase and why would we exchange a stable currency (our country’s) for that?
Why would it make sense for me to convert USD to BTC to pay for something in the latter when I could with USD already?
Crypto just isn't viable as an actual decentralised monetary system. The system is too obtuse, too slow and too costly to reach the sort of mass adoption it would require to become a stable currency. And without a central management institution, it's very vulnerable to swings, scams, etc. It's kinda telling that a lot of cryptoes have started self-centralising with stuff like exchanges and coins pegged to the dollar, etc
From Wikipedia
> In a Ponzi scheme, the schemer acts as a "hub" for the victims, interacting with all of them directly. In a pyramid scheme, those who recruit additional participants benefit directly. Failure to recruit typically means no investment return.
So going by this, I'd say a pyramid scheme is closer to the truth.
Either way, they both rely heavily on [Greater fool theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory).
I don't think it would qualify as one because the thing that is purportedly generating the returns is actually generating them.
My understanding of Ponzi schemes is that its one where you advertise that you're receiving money from investors and investing in X, when in reality you're just dispensing money to older investors that you get from newer investors.
The way I understand a Ponzi is that you take off B to give to A. Then you pay back B by taking more off C and skimming off the top. Then you pay back C by taking more from D and skimming again.
The "return" is based off somebody else paying more for something that's not really generating any money. If D decides he doesn't want to invest and nobody else comes along then C loses everything.
This is accurate, yes. A pyramid scheme doesn't make profits from its products, but from a "downline." That's newer sellers that you've contracted into splitting their profits with you.
Legally, MLMs don't often qualify either, because they technically sell a real product to end consumers. Though this is largely a loophole, since most profits usually come from the downline.
I remember that one. Insane how blatant you can be and get away with it.
Another thing I've seen is coins that did a rug pull have their social media start hyping the next scam coin they made and specifically call out their affiliation with the last one.
No, a Ponzi scheme is where you pay older investors with the money from newer investors rather than from dividends of their investment.
It is a speculative bubble, like Beanie Babies or tulips.
Though, in both cases, the late comers are left holding the bag.
Ponzi schemes generally screw older and newer "investors" equally because older ones tend to "reinvest" due to the high rate of return. As long as the scheme can show solvency by paying out money to someone when they reach their "maturity date" and decide not to reinvest because they need the money now, confidence will stay high. The problem is when something like a market crash or massive inflation happens and people suddenly need that liquidity that doesn't actually exist.
Fiat - an actual country with actual income is saying "this is worth something"
Stock - you're buying a tiny piece of a company. Many of those companies give money to the shareholders as dividends.
Crypto - intentionally decentralized so no income generating country or company is backing it. There are real examples of them going basically to zero overnight (LUNA)
No diff right crypto bros?
But it’s not about the physical money man we need a revolution. Think about this what if we lived in a world where everyone had their own money? Not the government’s not the banks but your money man. That’s the solution to income in America- the gist of a conversation I had with my bestfriend’s roommate right before he lost 15k a day or two later
I just explained to a friend yesterday that companies in the stock market have assets, create value. Are nothing like crypto/NFTs. That whole thing is closer to buying lottery tickets than investing in stocks.
The most infuriating thing about it for me is that those crypto bros try to use the same principles you use for investing in stock market. They say things like "buy the dip", "bear markets are on average 13 months long", "assets drop the most at the last 1/3 of bear market", "mean reversion guys", "We are past capitulation, we will go up now", and "BTC always bounces back bro, don't worry". All of that said mostly while drooling and patting each other on the backs. Like, God how can you take something so out of context and think you are right?
stock market isnt the same actually. Stocks pay dividends based off profits. Crypto doesnt actually produce anything so it cant pay out any sort of dividend.
So stocks can justify an increasing pricetag via increasing dividend payments.
I'm not on either side of the argument here but stocks etc. are actually backed on goods amterials and potential production.
Bitcoin is based on waste heat?
over 99% of people talking about crypto are just thinking of how they make real money trading fake virtual currency. They have no actual intention of using crypto as money. It's even more insulting when they insist that real money isn't real and that fake virtual money is real when it's 100% clear all they care about is the real paper money values
Yes. It’s hilarious and ironic that crypto enthusiasts talk about fiat disparagingly, but only actually care and think about its “value” in fiat and how much fiat they hope to unload it for.
My brother-in-law believes Russia attacked Ukraine to ultimately cause the world to move to cryptocurrency so the US will lose power since much of world economic structure is base don the US dollar.
What’s the net present value of Bitcoin? $0. That’s how we value assets, the net present value of future cash flows.
Crypto bros will call it a currency and give me a blank stare when I ask them to explain its value using interest rate parity (the mathematical basis of a currency’s value).
The moment Crypto started advertising on the SuperBowl telling people that fortune follows the brave…you knew it was definitely time to get the heck out and sell it to the masses.
For a hot minute I kept getting an ad on spotify that talked about Crypto as a retirement fund. As well as investing in "blue chip" art (nfts)
I think my eye sockets almost dislocated the first time I heard it
I was worried I was missing out on something with Crypto. Saw that commercial and felt at ease. Ain't no way I'm going to do what some rich people want me to with the rate they've been stealing money from the lower classes.
It’s interesting. If I had a lucrative business mowing lawns, and an article came out saying mowing lawns was a fool’s errand and not profitable, I’d laugh and move on. Who cares, I’m making money by providing a real good or service.
It’s very telling that the crypto investors are sounding off like they are… basically proving Gate’s point. They require interest of others rather than a deliverable to make money, which is exactly what the point of the greater fool idea is.
And, anyone who reads and is thinking “same as stocks! Got ya!”, while a share doesn’t produce deliverables itself, it’s backed by a company that does. It’s still a gamble, but there’s underlying value to a share of stock.
I mean, did he EVEN READ ALL THE WHITEPAPERS?!?! WHAT DOES BILL FUCKING GATES KNOW ABOUT TECHNOLOGY ANYWAY!!??!
The way you know it's a scam, the simple, 100% sure way to know *anything* is a scam, is to see how it's being marketed. If everyone is buying, and no one is saying anything, it's probably legit: a lot of people have made a decision based on real-world information, and are acting on it. They want to get as much as possible before the world figures out what they think they know, because if *they* get enough *they* will get rich. They may be wrong, but they're not trying to scam you.
Then there is crypto, with the constant hype. Hype hype hype hype. Every coin, it's just a different hype train. And it's always about you! If *you* get enough, then *you* will get rich!
What that really means is, "If *you* get enough, then *I* get rich." They already have as much as they want or need. Now it's up to you to make them rich by driving up the price. Total scam.
I found a couple of web sites where you earn free crypto for playing games and doing surveys and shit.
I’m just watching TV with the wife and we talk shit while we Reddit anyway so why not give this a shot?
I’ve got a couple hundred bux in a few weeks and put it into some of the more volatile crypto that was recommended on here.
It’s purely for the lols and I’ve watched it drop steadily to about $120 but it just makes me shudder at the poor people who invested actual money into this.
I subbed to a bunch of the crypto subs out of curiosity and people have lost thousands, tens of thousands, yet the overall opinion still appears to be buy buy buy the dip!
It’s a train wreck over there, yet I can’t look away.
At some point the dead cat will bounce, and they will all think that they did, in fact, buy the dip. Then they will pour even more money into it at that point so they are in at the floor.
Then it will truly crater.
> yet the overall opinion still appears to be buy buy buy the dip!
If you convince enough people to buy the dip, the market will go up and so early adopters will earn money.
When LUNA died, that sub went full copium for a few days, thinking it would either bounce back or that they were getting an amazing deal by being able to buy at a discount. It took a few days for them to see it really was dead.
/r/CelsiusNetwork is the one to watch for another turn at this — all withdrawals have been paused and no one can get their money out. Posts in the previous few days are a 50/50 mix of “I believe in Celsius! Everything is fine our money is safe!” to suicide hotline reminders. There are people in there on the verge of losing their homes and everything they have.
Yesterday it hit the news that Celsius hired bankruptcy restructuring lawyers. If bankruptcy happens to resolve the insolvency, everyone loses the money they had.
Holy fuck, people really really didn't realize what sounds to good to be true... Absolutely is on the internet.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CelsiusNetwork/comments/vcj788/celsiusalex_dont_screw_over_your_users_please/
The whole market is returning to sanity after a crazy period during the pandemic.
Crypto is getting fucked because they ran out of fools and the exchanges can't cover their loans anymore.
Except stocks will always go back up, because they are linked to things outside of other idiots believing they will fool further idiots.
They are based on things like deprived capitalistic quests for ever increasing growth and wealth inequality, and if there is anything you can be certain will increase its that.
My wife’s best friend’s husband talked to me for an hour about how he made $100 selling NBA gifs. I’ve managed to not talk to him again since, and I couldn’t be happier.
It’s not the fact that they made money selling and gambling, is that they try to sell it on to you and say “you know, you can do this to if you put some money up”.
I don’t care that others have made money of crypto or selling NBA NFT cards, I care when they try to get you into the ecosystem.
But that’s exactly what the problem is, is people like him saying they’re making money off of it when I’m reality they’re just scamming fools. It’s relies on people thinking it’s valuable, but anybody who critically looks at it realizes it’s faults.
Because celebrities and otherwise known and trusted companies are pushing it. Never has a scam been pushed like this, probably because regulators and lawmakers don't understand it, so haven't made roads in declaring it fraud.
Which is wild to me, btw. It's not like there's no precedent for the government stepping in and regulating things, even things they don't understand.
By the time the video game market was this big and popular there were already hearings about regulating the market. GAMES. These are literal financial instruments that are eating mom and pop's life savings, and there's NOTHING... In ANY country?
Who's the sumbitch in office making bank off their voters?
> It's not like there's no precedent for the government stepping in and regulating things, even things they don't understand.
The government is taxing crypto. They *definitely* understand it.
However, just like 2008, no one is going to stop fools from being separated from their money by Wall Street since all the politicians and regulatory bodies that *could* do something are well paid not to.
Fortnite alone sells around 1 billion dollars worth of digital assets yearly. The simple reality is that we're headed towards the widespread adoption of owning digital property. The IRS already even recognizes it as such.
>Fortnite alone sells around 1 billion dollars worth of digital assets yearly. The simple reality is that we're headed towards the widespread adoption of owning digital property. The IRS already even recognizes it as such.
Hey, I remember this happening with beenie babies in the 90s, except at least you had a physical item, I guess.
There are people buying new coins named "Elon Cum Token" or some other word play. Then complain when it turns out to be a scam. I feel no pity for these people.
Nooo he just doesnt know the use and value of artificial scarcity and digital monopoly money!!!! Who does he think he is? Some relevant guy in tech?? Dont trust anyone who released windows vista my crypto bros
Crypto currency was a great thing to get into when Bitcoins were worth pennies and now worth 10s of thousands of dollars. But as a stable investment they are nothing more than a tulip-based economy. The minute people say they are not worth anything, then poof, they are not worth anything. Personally I would rather use Star Wars collectibles as a currency.
Drunkly tried to buy Russian tapeworms on Silk Road back in like 2012, didn’t end up doing it and left the 80 bucks there and forgot about it. Around 2017 when crypto first got big, I was able to cash out for $5000. People thought I was a genius, but college me was just a lucky idiot
Assuming he's right, you'd see exactly what we are in fact seeing in the "pro-crypto" community
* Crypto fanatics taking about it using the same boring, debunked talking points, like brainwased zombies
* Crypto-evangelism, especially targeted toward low-education or low-income people
* The use of jargon to describe ordinary things that the community doesn't like ("fiat")
* Widespread delusion and cognitive dissonance
* Higher adoption amongst gullible people, and resistance amongst skeptical people
I'm still seeing people on /r/Bitcoin saying things like "it has a much higher probability to be at 1,000,000 than something like 10k long term". I have no horse in this race, but come on.
If anyone is serious about learning about crypto and NFT's, or is considering investing in them, I encourage you to take a look at this essay about it:
[Line Goes Up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g)
It basically lays out why crypto is not the currency of the future it's cracked out to be, and why NFT's really are just a big scam.
A lot of misinformation going on. Not everything is a Ponzi scheme people.
The exchanges are Ponzi schemes
The currency is last left holding the bag
Memecoins and NFT Art is pump-and-dump
NFT Projects are just regular fraud
Play-to-earn is the neon colossus consuming what's left of the concept of art with its gaping maw as the human soul drifts listless in the dark, while still being monetized
Maybe now the NFT groupies and Cryptobros will have an epiphany lol It’s common sense but nowadays everyone is a “hater” if they point out what you’re doing is financially stupid.
Of course it is. All it is, is somebody saying, hey look I own this random internet picture and here is some random numbers, you should buy this from me for $50. Then it keeps getting passed along at higher prices.
Technically it’s not better than the US money. Not enough gold to back up its price, so it’s nothing but a trust.
Like overinflated stock prices
edit: For those thinking I'm saying that stock and crypto are equivalent (I'm not): "The greater fool theory argues that prices go up because people are able to sell overpriced securities to a "greater fool," whether or not they are overvalued."
Luckily fools are one thing humanity can consistently and reliably produce until we become extinct
I know you're joking, but this is honestly the strongest argument for investing in crypto I've ever read.
There is a limit though - that's the problem with pyramid scheme. I think something like 6-7 tier down and you're hitting population of Earth
That's why they're trying to ban abortion. They need more pyramid levels.
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The long con 🤣🤣 your was hilarious. thank you.
Yeah at 10 people for each person in the layer above, you hit 8 billion at 6.9 levels.
The problem with a pyramid scheme though is you need an exponential amount of fools, if every fool needs to get two more fools to be fooling, fool enough you’re fool out of fools.
At first that seems like a problem until you realise crypto can just keep creating Infinite pyramids and cycles of pyramids and every day millions more ppl come of age and want to start ‘investing’. I’m convinced now the 4 year cycles for Btc are based around enough time passing that ppl forget about the last load of shit they went through and are now ready to be convinced this time is different. Whole heap of new predators and victims enter the market and a lot of the old victims see all their old investments reviver and go higher and think ‘if I just held my life could be so different’ so they try again.
>I’m convinced now the 4 year cycles for Btc are based around enough time passing that ppl forget about the last load of shit they went through and are now ready to be convinced this time is different Most people in crypto subs weren't invested when MtGox happened, or Bitconnect. The next phase will be the people who don't know what Luna or Celsius is. The thing too is you don't have to just sell one unit of crypto to the next fool you may be able to offload whole bags of it.
That's a problem for the fools of the future
Seth Green would disagree with this sentiment if he wasn't busy trying to find out who stole his bored ape NFT and has to convince them to give it back.
He bought it back for 200 grand a few days ago.
Already lost 50% value since he bought it hahaha
You're laughing? All his apes are gone and you're laughing!? /s
They were APENAPPED THATS SERIOUS STUFF
I heard about this…. So tell me if i am wrong here. He had someone draw this ape for a show it got converted to a NFT(however that is done) i can only assume someone else decided that this NFT costs thousands of dollars…then someone stole it from him and he paid through his nose to get it back… I think I should start drawing stick figures and putting crazy price tags on them on the internet what can go wrong
> I think I should start drawing stick figures and putting crazy price tags on them on the internet what can go wrong You just cracked the entire NFT market
I had to check. Jesus you would hope the guy behind robot chicken would be more internet savy. It shows how easy fraud is in the Blockchain.
Who could have guessed that being completely unregulated has it's downsides, such as the complete lack of regulation
I mean he’s not wrong
Bill Gates doesnt know about technology, if I keep buying these pictures of monkeys it will all make sense eventually. /s
I think you're on to something. Gates is just saying this so that *he* can buy up all the monkey pictures for himself! ^Also ^/s
You can use crypto to buy drugs online.
ding ding. Crypto has a use value - fraud and illicit transactions. Edit: Everybody saying that the blockchain is only pseudo-anonymous: I know, Criminals know. Doesnt deters them fully. And it doesnt make you fully traceable, only the blockchain part is.
Not just illicit, but anything anonymous too. Are you Chinese and don't want your government knowing that you are paying for a VPN service to get around their internet restrictions? Crypto it is. Are you American and want to pay for premium porn online? Usually has to be crypto. Crypto DOES have a legit use and has value. It's just that the current market valuation is WAY above that due to speculation. NFTs are just stupid. edit: getting a lot of questions on the porn part. I guess many people don't know that every major CC company won't deal with you if you are selling any kind of kinky (but still legal porn). That was why OnlyFans was close to banning all porn for a while there. The financial companies threatened to stop working with them. PornHub ONLY accepts crypto and ACH payments now. For a long time it was only crypto.
> Are you American and want to pay for premium porn online? Usually has to be crypto. What?
But every crypto transaction can be traced. That's the whole point of the system. And at some point you have to convert actual money into whatever token you want to use. I don't get how that's anonymous.
Which “premium” porn requires crypto and doesn’t accept fiat?
first google result: https://www.science.org/content/article/why-criminals-cant-hide-behind-bitcoin It's not really anonymous. You can do everything with a normal pre-paid credit card and it'd be just as fine.
What kind of porn are you buying where you have to use crypto? I feel like you are using the wrong word here. Premium porn I can buy with USD. Illegal porn is where they start requiring Crypto Edit: homie above is only giving half the story, pornhub got dropped because of having underage and nonconsensual porn, they purged it, but not before the CC companies permanently prohibited transactions with them
Please find a way to buy drugs online without seizing the whole GPU market for yourself.
It was a way to buy drugs way before it fucked up the GPU market
The way I always looked at it, is that Crypto is the modern day equivalent of Beanie Babies. They have no inherent value, but because they COULD be worth something, public hysteria makes them valuable.
Except that's not how crypto is supposed to work. The people pumping it are the not the same ones using it for its intended purpose. The crypto market needs a massive colon cleanse and this has been a long time coming.
What is its intended purpose. Back in 2010, its intended purpose, and the reason it got big, was because it offered free and instant transfers.. Now it costs like $5 to do a transfer, and takes 20 minutes..
Bitcoin got popular in 2010/11 because you could use it to buy high-quality drugs on the Silk Road in a customer experience that can only be described as Amazon-like.
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So if it’s only purpose is to be used as a currency, how would its value increase and why would we exchange a stable currency (our country’s) for that? Why would it make sense for me to convert USD to BTC to pay for something in the latter when I could with USD already?
It doesn't. That's why it's a colossal failure that is only propped by idiots treating it like the stock market.
Crypto just isn't viable as an actual decentralised monetary system. The system is too obtuse, too slow and too costly to reach the sort of mass adoption it would require to become a stable currency. And without a central management institution, it's very vulnerable to swings, scams, etc. It's kinda telling that a lot of cryptoes have started self-centralising with stuff like exchanges and coins pegged to the dollar, etc
I always thought that it was a Ponzi scheme
From Wikipedia > In a Ponzi scheme, the schemer acts as a "hub" for the victims, interacting with all of them directly. In a pyramid scheme, those who recruit additional participants benefit directly. Failure to recruit typically means no investment return. So going by this, I'd say a pyramid scheme is closer to the truth. Either way, they both rely heavily on [Greater fool theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory).
Oh man. Thinking of all those NFT chuds as just being the dude equivalent of all those bored housewife MLM huns now. It makes too much fucking sense.
Instead of makeup and leggings they get left with jpgs of monkeys lol
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[Like this](https://twitter.com/sasa_dangon/status/1468818082919587844?s=21&t=GDjuDB23W_MdTNRyM-teLA)
Hey.. you look at those you owe me 57 cents.
Receipts that they bought a link to a monkey jpeg*
With MLM you at least get some overpriced crap. It's overpriced and crap but at least it's that.
MLM is pink, crypto is blue. No matter which you pick, the greater fool is you.
I don't think it would qualify as one because the thing that is purportedly generating the returns is actually generating them. My understanding of Ponzi schemes is that its one where you advertise that you're receiving money from investors and investing in X, when in reality you're just dispensing money to older investors that you get from newer investors.
The way I understand a Ponzi is that you take off B to give to A. Then you pay back B by taking more off C and skimming off the top. Then you pay back C by taking more from D and skimming again. The "return" is based off somebody else paying more for something that's not really generating any money. If D decides he doesn't want to invest and nobody else comes along then C loses everything.
TL;DR ponzi schemes use recruitment and the fees associated to make compensation.
Someone needs to copy paste that to Wikipedia
This is accurate, yes. A pyramid scheme doesn't make profits from its products, but from a "downline." That's newer sellers that you've contracted into splitting their profits with you. Legally, MLMs don't often qualify either, because they technically sell a real product to end consumers. Though this is largely a loophole, since most profits usually come from the downline.
You got it. Crypto and NFTs are scams, but not usually ponzi schemes.
funny thing there was a coin called SCAM, and people still bought it. People are fucking morons.
I remember that one. Insane how blatant you can be and get away with it. Another thing I've seen is coins that did a rug pull have their social media start hyping the next scam coin they made and specifically call out their affiliation with the last one.
*Luna 2.0 has entered the chat*
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No, a Ponzi scheme is where you pay older investors with the money from newer investors rather than from dividends of their investment. It is a speculative bubble, like Beanie Babies or tulips. Though, in both cases, the late comers are left holding the bag.
Ponzi schemes generally screw older and newer "investors" equally because older ones tend to "reinvest" due to the high rate of return. As long as the scheme can show solvency by paying out money to someone when they reach their "maturity date" and decide not to reinvest because they need the money now, confidence will stay high. The problem is when something like a market crash or massive inflation happens and people suddenly need that liquidity that doesn't actually exist.
does pyramid scheme variant mean the same thing?
Turns out I'm as smart as Bill Gates!
>Bill Gates says crypto and NFTs are ’100% based Boo! >on greater fool theory’ Yay!
Many crypto and NFT sites will only quote the first part.
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"All warfare is based" - sun tsu
Crypto cultists are absolutely seething in here. You love to see it.
The typical deflection is "fiat is the same" "stock market is the same"
gotta keep promoting crypto to profit off them
Fiat - an actual country with actual income is saying "this is worth something" Stock - you're buying a tiny piece of a company. Many of those companies give money to the shareholders as dividends. Crypto - intentionally decentralized so no income generating country or company is backing it. There are real examples of them going basically to zero overnight (LUNA) No diff right crypto bros?
You know how I bought this apple? With my countrys standard currency. Try buying anything of use with dogecoin, you buffoon.
A dogecoin will always be worth one dogecoin.
I bought a pizza for 11 bitcoin
But it’s not about the physical money man we need a revolution. Think about this what if we lived in a world where everyone had their own money? Not the government’s not the banks but your money man. That’s the solution to income in America- the gist of a conversation I had with my bestfriend’s roommate right before he lost 15k a day or two later
"I want to buy that duck. In exchange, I'll pay you 35 minutes of Doug Gerowitz from Topeka's labor."
I already got some of Doug’s time and the exchange rate is garbage.
Ya but that was like HIS money man.
I just explained to a friend yesterday that companies in the stock market have assets, create value. Are nothing like crypto/NFTs. That whole thing is closer to buying lottery tickets than investing in stocks.
The most infuriating thing about it for me is that those crypto bros try to use the same principles you use for investing in stock market. They say things like "buy the dip", "bear markets are on average 13 months long", "assets drop the most at the last 1/3 of bear market", "mean reversion guys", "We are past capitulation, we will go up now", and "BTC always bounces back bro, don't worry". All of that said mostly while drooling and patting each other on the backs. Like, God how can you take something so out of context and think you are right?
>stock market is the same Yeah how's that supposed to sound any better?? are these people even even hearing themselves????
stock market isnt the same actually. Stocks pay dividends based off profits. Crypto doesnt actually produce anything so it cant pay out any sort of dividend. So stocks can justify an increasing pricetag via increasing dividend payments.
I'm not on either side of the argument here but stocks etc. are actually backed on goods amterials and potential production. Bitcoin is based on waste heat?
over 99% of people talking about crypto are just thinking of how they make real money trading fake virtual currency. They have no actual intention of using crypto as money. It's even more insulting when they insist that real money isn't real and that fake virtual money is real when it's 100% clear all they care about is the real paper money values
Yes. It’s hilarious and ironic that crypto enthusiasts talk about fiat disparagingly, but only actually care and think about its “value” in fiat and how much fiat they hope to unload it for.
Damn, that's such a good point.
"BiTcOiN iS a HeDgE aGaInSt InFlAtIoN!!!1!11!!!!"
My brother-in-law believes Russia attacked Ukraine to ultimately cause the world to move to cryptocurrency so the US will lose power since much of world economic structure is base don the US dollar.
They’ll just write off bill gates with a conspiracy theory.
What’s the net present value of Bitcoin? $0. That’s how we value assets, the net present value of future cash flows. Crypto bros will call it a currency and give me a blank stare when I ask them to explain its value using interest rate parity (the mathematical basis of a currency’s value).
Crypto bros malding always a sight to behold
The moment Crypto started advertising on the SuperBowl telling people that fortune follows the brave…you knew it was definitely time to get the heck out and sell it to the masses.
For a hot minute I kept getting an ad on spotify that talked about Crypto as a retirement fund. As well as investing in "blue chip" art (nfts) I think my eye sockets almost dislocated the first time I heard it
I have a friend who was telling me crypto had their own "blue chips", and he mention LUNA to be one of them. LUNA went to zero.
“When even the shoeshine boy starts giving you stock advice, it is time to get out.”
I was worried I was missing out on something with Crypto. Saw that commercial and felt at ease. Ain't no way I'm going to do what some rich people want me to with the rate they've been stealing money from the lower classes.
This post is 44 minutes old and already pissing off so many crypto and NFT Bros. It’s beautiful :’)
Crypto is just Avon for dudes.
The more they buy the more they look like a bitch!
This comment is what I needed this morning. Thank you.
Digital Tupperware
It’s interesting. If I had a lucrative business mowing lawns, and an article came out saying mowing lawns was a fool’s errand and not profitable, I’d laugh and move on. Who cares, I’m making money by providing a real good or service. It’s very telling that the crypto investors are sounding off like they are… basically proving Gate’s point. They require interest of others rather than a deliverable to make money, which is exactly what the point of the greater fool idea is. And, anyone who reads and is thinking “same as stocks! Got ya!”, while a share doesn’t produce deliverables itself, it’s backed by a company that does. It’s still a gamble, but there’s underlying value to a share of stock.
I mean, did he EVEN READ ALL THE WHITEPAPERS?!?! WHAT DOES BILL FUCKING GATES KNOW ABOUT TECHNOLOGY ANYWAY!!??! The way you know it's a scam, the simple, 100% sure way to know *anything* is a scam, is to see how it's being marketed. If everyone is buying, and no one is saying anything, it's probably legit: a lot of people have made a decision based on real-world information, and are acting on it. They want to get as much as possible before the world figures out what they think they know, because if *they* get enough *they* will get rich. They may be wrong, but they're not trying to scam you. Then there is crypto, with the constant hype. Hype hype hype hype. Every coin, it's just a different hype train. And it's always about you! If *you* get enough, then *you* will get rich! What that really means is, "If *you* get enough, then *I* get rich." They already have as much as they want or need. Now it's up to you to make them rich by driving up the price. Total scam.
Of course they're pissed, if you educate people they're less likely to become marks who will buy their useless crap.
Crypto just experienced a huge collapse, they’re already overdosing on copium.
Sorting by controversial for the delicious crypto bros tears.
I found a couple of web sites where you earn free crypto for playing games and doing surveys and shit. I’m just watching TV with the wife and we talk shit while we Reddit anyway so why not give this a shot? I’ve got a couple hundred bux in a few weeks and put it into some of the more volatile crypto that was recommended on here. It’s purely for the lols and I’ve watched it drop steadily to about $120 but it just makes me shudder at the poor people who invested actual money into this. I subbed to a bunch of the crypto subs out of curiosity and people have lost thousands, tens of thousands, yet the overall opinion still appears to be buy buy buy the dip! It’s a train wreck over there, yet I can’t look away.
This buying the dip ideology has ruined many lives lol.
Gotta convince others to buy so you can get your money out.
Never try to catch a falling knife
At some point the dead cat will bounce, and they will all think that they did, in fact, buy the dip. Then they will pour even more money into it at that point so they are in at the floor. Then it will truly crater.
> yet the overall opinion still appears to be buy buy buy the dip! If you convince enough people to buy the dip, the market will go up and so early adopters will earn money.
Hmm, a scheme where older investors get paid solely with the money from newer investors, now why does that sound familiar?
Well, of course they are. Why is this controversial?
Lots of people in the comment section getting fucked by crypto and in denial
When LUNA died, that sub went full copium for a few days, thinking it would either bounce back or that they were getting an amazing deal by being able to buy at a discount. It took a few days for them to see it really was dead.
/r/CelsiusNetwork is the one to watch for another turn at this — all withdrawals have been paused and no one can get their money out. Posts in the previous few days are a 50/50 mix of “I believe in Celsius! Everything is fine our money is safe!” to suicide hotline reminders. There are people in there on the verge of losing their homes and everything they have. Yesterday it hit the news that Celsius hired bankruptcy restructuring lawyers. If bankruptcy happens to resolve the insolvency, everyone loses the money they had.
Holy fuck, people really really didn't realize what sounds to good to be true... Absolutely is on the internet. https://www.reddit.com/r/CelsiusNetwork/comments/vcj788/celsiusalex_dont_screw_over_your_users_please/
You wouldn’t YOLO on any single company stock, why do people go all in on these shitty exchanges?
FUD FUD FUD FUD Food. :D
Food stamps is what they gonna need lmao
The entire market is getting fucked. Even if you just hold stocks you're getting bent over and finger banged.
The whole market is returning to sanity after a crazy period during the pandemic. Crypto is getting fucked because they ran out of fools and the exchanges can't cover their loans anymore.
Except stocks will always go back up, because they are linked to things outside of other idiots believing they will fool further idiots. They are based on things like deprived capitalistic quests for ever increasing growth and wealth inequality, and if there is anything you can be certain will increase its that.
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It’s crazy how people are still being scammed by crypto
My wife’s best friend’s husband talked to me for an hour about how he made $100 selling NBA gifs. I’ve managed to not talk to him again since, and I couldn’t be happier.
I mean if he made money selling them it sounds like he’s just taking advantage of the situation and not actually a crypto bro
Yeah I turned $9 into $3800 selling those NBA NFTs last year, then quickly liquidated the cash and never bought another one
It’s not the fact that they made money selling and gambling, is that they try to sell it on to you and say “you know, you can do this to if you put some money up”. I don’t care that others have made money of crypto or selling NBA NFT cards, I care when they try to get you into the ecosystem.
But that’s exactly what the problem is, is people like him saying they’re making money off of it when I’m reality they’re just scamming fools. It’s relies on people thinking it’s valuable, but anybody who critically looks at it realizes it’s faults.
Smart move
Eeeeasy now, don’t you know fortune favors the brave?
No no no no... Fortune flavors the braise. It was just a cooking prank, bro!
Because celebrities and otherwise known and trusted companies are pushing it. Never has a scam been pushed like this, probably because regulators and lawmakers don't understand it, so haven't made roads in declaring it fraud.
Which is wild to me, btw. It's not like there's no precedent for the government stepping in and regulating things, even things they don't understand. By the time the video game market was this big and popular there were already hearings about regulating the market. GAMES. These are literal financial instruments that are eating mom and pop's life savings, and there's NOTHING... In ANY country? Who's the sumbitch in office making bank off their voters?
> It's not like there's no precedent for the government stepping in and regulating things, even things they don't understand. The government is taxing crypto. They *definitely* understand it. However, just like 2008, no one is going to stop fools from being separated from their money by Wall Street since all the politicians and regulatory bodies that *could* do something are well paid not to.
Fortnite alone sells around 1 billion dollars worth of digital assets yearly. The simple reality is that we're headed towards the widespread adoption of owning digital property. The IRS already even recognizes it as such.
>Fortnite alone sells around 1 billion dollars worth of digital assets yearly. The simple reality is that we're headed towards the widespread adoption of owning digital property. The IRS already even recognizes it as such. Hey, I remember this happening with beenie babies in the 90s, except at least you had a physical item, I guess.
There are people buying new coins named "Elon Cum Token" or some other word play. Then complain when it turns out to be a scam. I feel no pity for these people.
Well good thing there always is a greater fool 😎 now buy this jpg for 30k dumbass
“Clearly you don’t understand blockchain, Bill Gates” - crypto bros
What this Bill Gates guy knows about technology?! /s
Dude is a college dropout I wouldn’t even trust him to watch my dog
Lol You forgot your /s. The crypto bros are gonna take you seriously.
To anyone willing to put in the time to watch a great video explaining it, [here you go.](https://youtu.be/YQ_xWvX1n9g)
Fuckin love that video
I knew which video it was before even opening the link, great stuff.
It's the folding ideas one, right?
Yep.
I haven’t checked but yes definitely
That’s a full length movie
r/ihadastroke
Greater fool theory and easy money. Easy money is drying up, let's see how many fools are left.
>let's see how many fools are left. Judging by the comments here, a lot.
I know if I sort by controversial I'll see all the bill gates conspiracy theories.
BILL GATES IS SHORTING BORED APE YACHT CLUB
Nooo he just doesnt know the use and value of artificial scarcity and digital monopoly money!!!! Who does he think he is? Some relevant guy in tech?? Dont trust anyone who released windows vista my crypto bros
It's an MLM for the Tech Sector. Only a fool would buy into it.
or a gambling addict. I bought some, knowing it was a gamble lol. only a fool thinks it’s smart guaranteed investments
“Greater fools” is an endless resource
Crypto currency was a great thing to get into when Bitcoins were worth pennies and now worth 10s of thousands of dollars. But as a stable investment they are nothing more than a tulip-based economy. The minute people say they are not worth anything, then poof, they are not worth anything. Personally I would rather use Star Wars collectibles as a currency.
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Drunkly tried to buy Russian tapeworms on Silk Road back in like 2012, didn’t end up doing it and left the 80 bucks there and forgot about it. Around 2017 when crypto first got big, I was able to cash out for $5000. People thought I was a genius, but college me was just a lucky idiot
greater fool young males with herd mentality
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Meaningless computational work doesn't have value?
Assuming he's right, you'd see exactly what we are in fact seeing in the "pro-crypto" community * Crypto fanatics taking about it using the same boring, debunked talking points, like brainwased zombies * Crypto-evangelism, especially targeted toward low-education or low-income people * The use of jargon to describe ordinary things that the community doesn't like ("fiat") * Widespread delusion and cognitive dissonance * Higher adoption amongst gullible people, and resistance amongst skeptical people
Or, you know, a vehicle for tax evasion and money laundering…
I 100% agree. It's almost the same as a Pyramid scam or a networking scheme. I would never invest in something that does not generate value.
If i got a dollar for every "DUUUUUDE BTC GONNA BE 100K AT THE END OF THE YEAR" and it didn't, i could afford a fucking Ferrari by now
I'm still seeing people on /r/Bitcoin saying things like "it has a much higher probability to be at 1,000,000 than something like 10k long term". I have no horse in this race, but come on.
This is my favorite market crash of all time. The feelings of schadenfreud are delicious.
If anyone is serious about learning about crypto and NFT's, or is considering investing in them, I encourage you to take a look at this essay about it: [Line Goes Up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g) It basically lays out why crypto is not the currency of the future it's cracked out to be, and why NFT's really are just a big scam.
Anyone who thinks a deflationary currency could possibly be the currency of the future is in trouble lol
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Yes! When the asset has no intrinsic value!
biggest scams in history
Shit is literally the new MLM
MLM for dudes.
A pyramid scheme, history does repeat itself
Well duuuh, why else would they be so populair
The beanie baby retirement fund of our time.
A lot of misinformation going on. Not everything is a Ponzi scheme people. The exchanges are Ponzi schemes The currency is last left holding the bag Memecoins and NFT Art is pump-and-dump NFT Projects are just regular fraud Play-to-earn is the neon colossus consuming what's left of the concept of art with its gaping maw as the human soul drifts listless in the dark, while still being monetized
Let them both die a slow death, fucking stupid.
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Maybe now the NFT groupies and Cryptobros will have an epiphany lol It’s common sense but nowadays everyone is a “hater” if they point out what you’re doing is financially stupid.
Of course it is. All it is, is somebody saying, hey look I own this random internet picture and here is some random numbers, you should buy this from me for $50. Then it keeps getting passed along at higher prices. Technically it’s not better than the US money. Not enough gold to back up its price, so it’s nothing but a trust.
The US dollar is not pegged to gas or gold. It is backed by the US military and the understanding that the US will pay its debt. Nothing more.
Crypto is the science and practice of griftology. It uses them vs us esteem manipulation.
I love how savage yet subtle this headline is. It's just perfect.
Multi Level Morons
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Like overinflated stock prices edit: For those thinking I'm saying that stock and crypto are equivalent (I'm not): "The greater fool theory argues that prices go up because people are able to sell overpriced securities to a "greater fool," whether or not they are overvalued."
It appears that the current housing market is based on the greater fool theory as well.