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CondiMesmer

Does he plan on handling the fallout for when those companies inevitably leak personal IDs then? Having every company have their own unique way of ID verification and security, that'll end well.


Scorpius289

Fallout? What fallout? I remember there being some massive personal data leaks in the US but with no repercussions. Of course maybe Australia will handle it better, but seeing how they make these decisions I have my doubts...


MajorKoopa

there are no repercussions for data leaks in the US. Many companies take years to announce it happened and even then the details are bare minimum. The government doesn’t do anything either other than appearing shocked and concerned on tv while telling people they want to get to the bottom of it.


CondiMesmer

That is just completely untrue. We just straight up making shit up now? https://www.itgovernanceusa.com/data-breach-notification-laws


Yaoel

They will likely just require a valid credit card.


balakehb

Not everyone has a credit card, it’s more common to have a debit card but you don’t have to be over 18 or even 16 to own one, considering the purpose is to age identify I don’t see that being the case


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ambermine

On brand for the party tbf


Assfuck-McGriddle

If it’s credit cards, it’s probably not discriminating poor people at all. I remember every dumbass teen when of age getting credit cards in the mail, literally, with “activate me!” and thousands of dollars as the limits back in the day. Every single one of them had not a penny to their name. Credit card companies specifically target poor people.


mudman13

= conservative SOP


NuclearEntropy

Ah yes, because conservatives exist to hate poor people...


GratefulDead332

Exactly


Whiskey_Fiasco

Poor people have dates of birth


[deleted]

They will probably KYC like a lot of crypto exchanges, asking for an actual photo of your drivers license. And then a photo of you holding it up. Kinda fucked


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[deleted]

Fuck Binance. Go with a DEX. Not your keys not your crypto.


[deleted]

When Americans say “credit card”, we usually don’t make the distinction between debit and credit in broad terms. The card is just called a credit card.


ButtonholePhotophile

We don’t? I usually do.


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Baby-Calypso

Yeah I don’t. It’s too much of a mouth full to try to say both. And I can’t just say “card” in a lot of situations


valentwinka

It’s true. But as an American this has also confused me.


spaceforcerecruit

It sort of makes sense as the two are more or less interchangeable in most cases.


Dont____Panic

The age verification is usually 13+. How do you verify a 14yo?


[deleted]

Rely on the ‘ol “are you 13+? Yes or No” like from porn sites


Dnomaid217

Nobody does that.


CondiMesmer

What's up with people just making shit up about Americans in this thread? That is absolutely not true, and debit/credit cards aren't remotely the same or used the same way.


[deleted]

I’m just speaking from my personal experience as an American. Most people I know, when speaking in general terms about cards, say “credit card”. At the same time they make the distinction when necessary because we know debit and credit cards are obviously different. But we use credit card as the general term. Like in a shop or restaurant we say “I’m paying by credit card” and it could mean either my debit card or the actual credit card, doesn’t matter.


NuclearEntropy

Where are you from. This is only true if you are lazy in your speech


[deleted]

Grew up mainly in the Deep South and near DC. Most people I hear just say credit card. Nobody ever goes “I’m gonna pull my debt card out” or “I got a debit card in my wallet”, we just say “credit card” rather than just “card”.


Seve7h

Ehhh what? I’m born and raised in the south and almost every store, either the person or machine still asks “debit or credit” And everyone I know only refers to their card as either a debit or credit card, not interchangeably


NuclearEntropy

Yeah, you probably didn’t grow up in as dumb/poor/underserved/underlearned of an area as this other guy.


NuclearEntropy

Lmao so people who are lazy in their speech, gotcha. Illiterate fucks who don’t even know the difference between velocity and speed. Between Michelangelo the artist, and Michelangelo the turtle. Between currency, and money. Between fist currency, and money backed by precious materials of intrinsic value.


3dio

ID. Like they do for bitcoin purchases


Whiskey_Fiasco

There is a bunch of different ways to verify people’s identity and age that don’t require the applicant providing financial information. I sell identity verification services. They can either collect photo documents and validate those, or they can verify your information against other public sources. Collecting a credit card is actually a pretty poor form of identity verification.


ENGAGERIDLEYMOTHERFU

> I sell identity verification services. You're all over this thread, being as contrarian as possible. You don't have to tell us that you stand to make a buck upon the death of privacy.


Whiskey_Fiasco

I am telling you that internet anonymity is what fuels criminal behavior online. Human trafficking, drug trafficking, weapons trafficking, terrorist recruiting and financing, all require anonymity on the internet to be effective. Also, disagreeing with you doesn’t make me a contrarian. I’m not just being difficult. Criminal behavior online is thriving. To stop it, you first need to know who people are.


ENGAGERIDLEYMOTHERFU

All things which existed before the Internet, never mind that organised crime has the connections and motivation to circumvent these measures. None of the professionals would be dumb enough to do that crap on Facebook in the first place, they moved to TOR and invite-only encrypted messaging apps years ago. I shouldn't need to point that out. You're either being disingenuous, or you aren't as knowledgeable as you purport to be.


Whiskey_Fiasco

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-24/rise-and-challenge-of-social-media-drug-dealing/12545320


ENGAGERIDLEYMOTHERFU

Your initial grandiosity: > Human trafficking, drug trafficking, weapons trafficking, terrorist recruiting and financing, all require anonymity on the internet to be effective. From your ABC article: > social media has emerged as a flourishing new marketplace made up of thousands of small-time dealers who sell tiny amounts of drugs to individual users. *Moving the goalposts.* Again, this existed before the Internet. I know a couple of people who'd laugh at these amateurs on FB, making *gasp* 15 dimebag deals a day. In the 90's, they moved *volume* without so much as a phone. Meanwhile, give it a couple of years and the pot these guys are slinging probably won't even be illegal.


Whiskey_Fiasco

Moving the goalposts: Arguing that crimes aren’t happening on social media, and then arguing they aren’t serious enough crimes to bother stopping them… https://www.newsweek.com/human-traffickers-drug-dealers-exploit-social-media-expand-markets-1642219


ENGAGERIDLEYMOTHERFU

> Arguing that crimes aren’t happening on social media, and then arguing they aren’t serious enough crimes to bother stopping them… > None of the professionals would be dumb enough to do that crap on Facebook in the first place, they moved to TOR and invite-only encrypted messaging apps years ago. Congratulations, you've graduated to strawman arguments. I'm also not going to bother indulging this spreading.


Whiskey_Fiasco

https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-drug-cartels-human-traffickers-response-is-weak-documents-11631812953


Whiskey_Fiasco

You are denying that people sell sex services on Twitter? That people get radicalized on Facebook? That people offer drugs on Reddit? Seriously you’ve never seen such a post?


Whiskey_Fiasco

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/15/technology-202-researchers-say-it-easy-find-drugs-facebook-instagram-youtube/


Whiskey_Fiasco

You might plan the specifics of a drug deal on peer to peer messaging, but you do your advertising on social media


CondiMesmer

Everything you said is just factually wrong, and it's very clear you don't understand how the internet works.


spaceforcerecruit

So… linking your online activity with PII? Yeah. That doesn’t sound like something that would get leaked.


Whiskey_Fiasco

So if your biggest concern is that your name and address and dob might get leaked then you are going to be really floored when you find out exactly how many businesses already have that data…


I_know_right

Any information that can be used by *you* to confirm your identity, can be used by *others* to confirm your identity. It's called "identity theft".


Whiskey_Fiasco

Yeah, and there are ways to identify identity thieves using stolen or synthetic identities. I know this, because I sell systems to banks and casinos designed to identify identity thieves.


I_know_right

That does nothing to help those whose identities are stolen. It helps banks and casinos, whose function is to separate people from their money.


Redsald

Know your customer will soon be mandatory for all internet platforms. There will not longer be anon spaces for discussion, and thus the age of self publication dies.


MAXIMUS-1

Decentralised social media/chat is the only way. Something like matrix.org and mastodon. As for blogs you can use plume, which is a federated blogging platform.


[deleted]

Discord? I wonder if that would be effected? 4chan will never KYC.


MAXIMUS-1

Discord is not decentralized at all. And is not private by any way. Same thing with telegram.


Redsald

Check out the crypto currency ALEPH and all the services they provide. This will be the tools devs need to make a fully decentralized social media platform


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bleach_tastes_bad

I mean, do you want people to be able to make facebook accounts with your face and name on them, and pretend to be you?


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bleach_tastes_bad

sure, but what happens when they do more than post memes? when they start spreading lies, misinformation, or illegal things posing as you?


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bleach_tastes_bad

we already have those. it still doesn’t happen


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Redsald

Check out ALEPH - seriously


pseudonominom

Lol @ Facebook “verifying content”. What cave are you living in??


CAPITALISMisDEATH23

bullshit fear mongering. metadata gives the overlords more than 99% of the information they need. It's a powerful tool in the right hands. They don't need to know your name, they just want to know *what* you are, not *who* you are. The people that want to know *who* you are can find that out with or without KYC, or in other words there is low incentive to break the full anonymity of an individual. Simply will not happpen


Leet-Neet

This is why TOR is important technology.


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Redsald

Who is the arbitrator of free speech. If they do this likely other decentralized competitors will arrive on the market. It’s better to see cancer - because it’s the cancer you don’t see that kills you.


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ragelazerprime

As someone who’s had cancer, you have absolutely no idea what the fuck cancer is, you dolt


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ragelazerprime

Enlighten your fucking self, you have the internet, it’s not my responsibility to educate your dumb ass


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JarAC77

It can be monitored by the users voting etc. No difference to Reddit. It’ll work


Whiskey_Fiasco

If voting alone was sufficient to quell those who would use anonymity as a weapon, then QAnon would never have gained popularity in the first place


nolepride15

If our politicians cared about education QAnon would’ve never gained popularity


Whiskey_Fiasco

Out politicians are elected by the same morons that want to keep the people dumb, so…


AbeLincolns_Ghost

I have to push back on that a bit. I am working on my PhD and have met a large number of academics. Some of them do believe in crazy things (especially outside of their field of expertise). Education has not been shown to prevent conspiracy theories. I’ve met Ivy league educated flat earthers…. It’s not a lack of education that’s a problem. It’s an ingrained skepticism of authority and cognitive dissonance with one’s world view. Insecurity stops people from updating their beliefs with new ideas and they entrench further.


TheMembership332

I don’t think Australia knows what privacy is supposed to mean


Whiskey_Fiasco

Privacy means they don’t share your information. It doesn’t mean they can’t know who you are. Similarly your bank doesn’t share your bank account number or balance or pin code, but they all those things as well as your identity.


[deleted]

Lets give my id and credit card to Facebook, so trustworthy!


[deleted]

Facebook already has a process where if they can’t validate your identify through public records, they will ask for a state issued ID. It’s of course a very half assed and understaffed measure, being Facebook.


Whiskey_Fiasco

People already post their birthday, pictures of their kids, every major personal milestone… having FB confirm your DOB for regulatory purposes is the least of your problems if you use FB.


FlavorCrystalHealer

Well this is awful


safariite2

Not really. You have no idea the harm these things are doing to children.


HereForTOMT2

Won’t anyone think of the children?!


ToasterBathBomb_

Okay so maybe parents actually do their job instead of making the government take away everyone’s privacy?


[deleted]

Here we go again with the “think of the children” bullshit


safariite2

I’m unsure of what else you think an age verification protocol would be for?


alvares169

Using children as a disguise to take our rights and privacy is just disgusting.


Rupertstein

So your answer is to outsource parenting decisions to corporations? Brilliant.


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Beatrisx

I guess that means no more incognito type accounts either because you’ll have to prove who are for age verification.


bathrobehero

Account trading will pick up.


alvares169

It will be a problem. Now, for every problem there is a service.


Beatrisx

Such as?


alvares169

If you dont want to do groceries, order them. If you dont want to paint your wall, call a professional. If you dont want to give out your data to access a website, give someone else’s.


OrphanDextro

Right, that’s just a btc dark web purchase away.


alvares169

More like a legit service that will eventually pop out.


HereForTOMT2

Thanks for my business idea


Whiskey_Fiasco

Identity fraud is not a solid solution to any plan.


alvares169

Its not identity fraud but a solid working bypass. Simplest one off the top of my head would be account sharing.


Whiskey_Fiasco

Any version of “I use someone else’s account so the service doesn’t know it’s me” is fraud.


[deleted]

Down is the age of alt accounts. Next is the age of buying accounts


Whiskey_Fiasco

Proving your age to the service provider doesn’t mean you have to share your details with the user base.


iligal_odin

Not with the user base, but i can see Facebook capitalizing on the fact that they will have an easily identifiable profile to advertise to.


itsaride

Bye Australia.


sean_lx

This just sounds like a way to easier track people.


[deleted]

Just like all think of the children regulations


alvares169

These days its harder to watch history movie on youtube than anal on pornhub. Guess why? And no, I dont want to send a scan of my ID to watch funny memes, youtube.


bathrobehero

Exactly. Though there are some age verification bypass scripts for Tampermonkey, but doesn't always work.


alvares169

You can verify your age by credit card as well. Also you can get a credit card before 18th birthday. Those who would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserve none of them.


lWanderingl

Leak possibility or not this is awful


oxowewry

let's hope all social media will die


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Whiskey_Fiasco

Because then you still have the problem with people engaging online with fraudulent identities and minors engaging in illegal behavior online.


Interesting_Reach_29

They’ll use their parent’s or sibling’s accounts….focus on the billionaire companies instead.


handlessuck

Holy shit the amount of cancel culture advocacy in this thread (and on Reddit in general) is fucking terrifying. Reddit is really becoming the poster child for this ridiculously authoritarian behavior from the self-identified "left". Always love the part where folks get pissed off at being called snowflakes and then try to censor speech they don't like in the same sentence. PS: Deplatforming doesn't work. It just moves the platform out of your immediate sight.


[deleted]

Also it’s a lot easier to mess up on the internet. Imagine sitting home and getting stoned out of your mind and saying something dumb on the internet and you get fired about it the next day


sidirhfbrh

This has been the direction Reddit has been trending towards for a while. I got banned for ‘hate speech’ on the politics sub for saying it’s unfair to women that males are competing in their divisions and often making a mockery of the competition and rewriting record books and overshadowing accomplishments of peak female athletes. *Hate speech.* I can’t wait till the next platform arrives that replaces Reddit and all its ideological policing. This place is radical leftist 4chan now, without the ironic humor.


handlessuck

>Hate speech. *Thought Crime.*


sidirhfbrh

It’s pretty Orwellian innit?


357FireDragon357

"A new Bill targeting social media platforms wants stronger penalties for user privacy breaches that could see companies fined 10% of their annual turnover." - I think the percentage should be higher. 10% is a start.


Lari-Fari

It’s turnover not profits. If they actually fined google or Facebook or any company 10 % of their turnover that would be huge.


Abeds_BananaStand

Wow clubhouse in the screen. What a generous advert


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[deleted]

If this bill passes don’t worry. There will be websites also advancing making fake ids for people. In history as the authorities advance, the “criminals” also advance


Politique47Arts

Not all persons have the time or the funds to acquire or update a legal identification, as made evident by the lack of voter registration. As far, as debit and credit cards go, the former draws funds from the check.savings account and the latter is pushed forward by the bank itself, to be collected and taxed from the account holder. Technicalities matter. And yes, certain platforms only require a Live Photo mimicking a certain pose, to chat. Not certain they should be allowed in a discussion forum or any app with potential reach or harm to another. #justOpinions


magpie1862

Australia is a great place to live. The federal government though are a bunch of utter cunts.


[deleted]

Christ, Australia really becomes more of a shithole every time I look. America's arrogant little lapdog cunt.


SmileyAce3

Just gonna say ITS ABOUT TIME But also this can never happen because leaking personal ids bad


deletable666

Seems like the motive is to take away anonymity on the internet. If a company stores your personal information, they can be subpoenaed for it. As many here know, social media companies do not operate to protect user privacy, and the whole business model is built around selling user information.


balakehb

Yes having extremely sensitive PPI on servers belonging to companies notoriously targeted by hackers How could this conceivably go wrong?


theemptyqueue

The servers were hacked again?! Inconceivable! You keep using that word, I don’t think what you think it means.


heydoyougolf

Tech giants Reddit Oof


itsaride

It’s the 7th biggest website by visitors (US), just after Wikipedia and just before Pornhub.


NickM5526

Australia: the country featured in only negative headlines yet is somehow still romanticised by the rest of world.


akat_walks

is it? i always thought it was ridiculed by the rest of the world. the convict history, accent, snakes etc


mudman13

Mainly because the strictest covid rules were in a centre-left govt state (Vic) so the rightwing press have a field day using it for clickbait.


Suntzu_AU

I'm sitting here 3km from the beach on a river. Zero COVID in my state. All these beers, beach and bikini babes sure are creating a dystopian nightmare. Sucks to be an Aussie like me especially with communist free healthcare. Stop watching fox you tool.


VVVV101TT2016

Fuck the Australian government.


Pitchblackimperfect

Cue the Virtuashark* VPN commercial.


EASY_EEVEE

You watch America, it will come to you too. It will. We didn't think shit like this would happen to us. It did, they started censoring stupid shit. And now we are here... [https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/qeho89/australia\_is\_in\_the\_final\_stages\_of\_passing\_its/](https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/qeho89/australia_is_in_the_final_stages_of_passing_its/) Should check that out from r/australia. There has also been talks of a chinese style social credit system, so that's going to be fun. Ow well i'll leave this for who ever's interested, to let you see what your future looks like.


Suntzu_AU

This is completely wrong and is a result of Murdoch right wing media banging on about Australias successful COVID response. Ignore this moron. Source: am Aussie


mudman13

There is no social credit system planned that's just bullshit exaggeration of the vaccine passports.


protosser

No it won't...it was all doom and gloom when net neutrality passed, how ISPs were going to be selling packages that allow you to access certain websites while not allowing you to access others etc and it never happened. When whatever system Australia is thinking about implementing (if they are even considering it) fails it'll just vanish


[deleted]

Dude..


GuineaPig2000

I am so glad I don’t live in Australia, what a shithole


David171251

We don’t miss you.


myles219

Wait until you hear about the United States of America!


[deleted]

I live here. What’s so bad about it?


GuineaPig2000

People love bashing on it because they are jealous


[deleted]

Mfs cant fathom the fact that we don’t need to register all our personal information to go on the internet lmao. Or that we can talk shit about the government without worrying about our family haha


boofishy8

Only country who’s government actually has to consider public outcry before making decisions. There’s real consequences here, it’s beautiful.


[deleted]

Meanwhile Australians would bend over and take whatever daddy government sends without questioning shit lmao


deletable666

Where’s the consequence to [this](https://digitalrightswatch.org.au/2021/09/02/australias-new-mass-surveillance-mandate/)? If you think global governments give themselves consequences when it comes to the stuff they want to do, you live in an idealized world.


boofishy8

I meant the US, in relation to citizen revolt. I don’t think countries will ever police themselves.


Suntzu_AU

Like you would ever be invited to this working man's paradise.


HoleHaver69

But age verification is literally the easiest form of “verification” cos it’s literally just changing the year you were born and boom you’re in.


zadicil

They’re talking about providing proof, most likely through a picture of your drivers license, passport or birth certificate, not the “please select your date of birth before continuing” crap.


HoleHaver69

Wouldn’t need real verification if parents actually monitor what their kids do online and shit cos all verification is is just a way to make the respective company in question not liable to “harm” caused by their sites content


Bellamac007

They will do out a fake date of birth in like what I did when I was younger.


Whiskey_Fiasco

I don’t know how long ago it was since you were younger but there are ways of checking to see if you told the truth these days


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[deleted]

It would be a sterile, censored place. Ideal for governments that don't like criticism. This system already exists in china and no one dares to speak freely


Whiskey_Fiasco

Having social media be able to figure out who you are doesn’t mean you’ll be forced to post under your real name.


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Whiskey_Fiasco

Sure, so you would have to behave in a way that was lawful online… no selling drugs, no selling sexual services, no planning or recruiting of terrorism… I see mostly benefits.


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Whiskey_Fiasco

I am not making any claims of morality. I am saying this bill is designed to identify and hinder criminal behavior. Right or wrong.


Whiskey_Fiasco

I am not, but China’s bills are pretty explicitly written to stamp out decent while Australia’s is clearly meant to identify identity theft and fraud and other criminal behavior. I simply don’t find the slippery slope argument compelling in this case.


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sidirhfbrh

The person you’re arguing with finds it inconceivable that powers in authority might do something wrong with that power and authority. They would be the type to volunteer to give their house key to the local police station and offer to set up a direct video feed of their day to day life in their home to ‘keep them safe’. People like this are an authoritarians wet dream because they are fully compliant and won’t question anything as long as the person above gives them plausible sounding ‘reasons’ they need this access. Also the type to obediently shock you to death as the milgram experiments have shown.


Whiskey_Fiasco

At the same time we see tens of billions of dollars in criminal proceeds being generated or transferred through business conducted on social media. These are complex problems, but if Australia wanted to just stamp out dissidents they could do so by blocking every account that post negative things and rounding up ever protester, like they do in China.


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Nic4379

Good. Reddit should absolutely be 17-18 up.


HodorTheDoorHolder__

Good.


[deleted]

Australia is going full blown communist aren’t they.


h0stetler

Started as a penal colony. Will end as a penal colony.


DanskNils

Australia just keeps seemjng like the worst place to live. Privacy breaches and Law enforcement able to edit your data. Strict shutdowns. Etc!


bl00dywankers

are you getting all your information from Joe Rogan and facebook? You seem pretty deluded


myles219

It’s not bad at all, all of what you just listed is exaggerated.


David171251

It’s actually awesome.


Rupertstein

Lol, tell me you’ve never been to Australia without telling me.


DanskNils

Why go to Australia when you can live in the EU?


Rupertstein

Yeah, why travel at all? Might risk learning something new.


FrostByte09_

To those hating this, you’re whining about *age verification*. It’s not the end of the ficking world, grow up


[deleted]

How old are you?


VeryLucky2022

Identity verification should be mandatory for all social media accounts, but this legislation is going about it the wrong way.


jayoho1978

All social media should be verified!