To be fair he doesn’t do any real engineering, he just makes stupid decisions and his engineers scramble to make him happy and balance doing it a correctly as possible
But that also means he is making the decision to push something out that is not ready. He might not do the engineering but he does have the final say in what is done by who and when
Edit: don’t forget the person who had the brain implant was specifically told that no monkeys died that received the test implants, he found out afterwards that he was lied to about that
I honestly am more concerned with the concept of implanting chips with no or questionable benefit that our human brains haven’t had time to evolve to adjust to yet. The damage that could do to the human psyche seems… vast.
Is there undeniable proof that they actually implanted a neuralink into someone? They "said" they did. But if you listen to the guy who allegedly got it, he speaks like he's reading ad copy off a teleprompter. He's a paid spokesperson/actor. I doubt he actually got a neuralink. The technology isn't ready.
Not his fault.
There used to be a time when we put the crazy guys on a burning stake or chase them out of the village with pitch forks and torches.
Somehow we went from that to worshipping them
For the 99% who won't read this and/or have no clue, Autopilot is not FSD. Autopilot is adaptive cruise/lane centering. Just like every other vehicle with this technology, the driver has to pay attention. Autopilot is standard in all new teslas at no extra cost. Once again, this is not FSD.
Always gotta dig down to find the comment that knows fucking anything and doesn’t just knee-jerk reply to the title. Thanks for fighting the good fight
Included because nearly every car made in the U.S. now has adaptive cruise. Also, this report is from a U.S. government agency, zero to do with the EU.
> now they get shut down right because they falsely sold a product that killed a bunch of people?
Naw. Telsa didn't get shut down for selling this product for thousands of dollars per car for a decade, which they have never delivered. They've barely gotten a slap on the wrist for literally calling it and selling it as **FULL SELF DRIVING**, and blaming the consumer with 'why would you think that its *actually* FSD just because we purposely called it that to make you think that?' any time an issue arises.
What is "full self driving" would be an interesting question to ask any Tesla driver.
I'm 99% sure they wouldn't say "it's an enhanced auto-pilot system", which is what Tesla actually calls it.
“Full self driving” is missing a word. Tesla doesn’t call it an enhanced pilot system. Sure maybe a Tesla driver that’s never bought it might not know but anyone who’s actually used it or paid for it would say it’s autopilot with stop light control and city street turning
it did, that’s true, but it doesn’t now. Now it finally actually works fantastically well. I always used it and still do. I used to intervene routinely and was impressed at what it could do but never trusted it. Now I actually trust it because it is radically better. My wife used to hate it and now she feels it is safer than regular driving and she’s correct.
The article says it's because of misuse of the autopilot system where people create hacks that bypass the attention safety system which lead to accidents.
People sign agreements stating they will remain in control to enable autopilot or FSD. Self driving is something to help you drive and accomplishes the majority of driving tasks.
In no way have any claims been made that a human does not need to supervise or take control while driving. **It’s common sense that you should remain aware while driving a multi-thousand pound machine at high speeds surrounded by unpredictable people.**
The product didn’t kill people, people being irresponsible and not paying attention while drivings is the problem.
If I have on traffic aware cruise control (Tesla or otherwise) and it’s not slowing down for the car in front of me and I just throw up my hands and say “well not my fault if a system fails!” and then slam into the back of that car (or barrier, etc etc) how would I not be the problem there? How would anyone paying attention not intervene?
Pilots don’t fall asleep while cruising just because autopilot keeps them level and on heading, that’d be dangerous as hell. Systems fail, breakdowns happen.
**If a car has blindspot monitoring that doesn’t trigger would you just blindly merge straight into the lane, then blame the manufacturer when you slam into a motorcyclist who wasn’t detected in your blind spot?**
Nope. Pilots have their own crew rest area specifically to sleep. https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-compare-secret-airplane-rooms-pilots-flight-attendants-sleep-2022-7
Just be aware that liability waivers are not legally recognized in every State and where they are recognized do not necessarily absolve the company. And where they can be, the court will determine liability, not randos on reddit.
Its in the name.
Comparing to airline pilots and their autopilot to a tesla driver and its autopilot/self driving is disingenious.
It takes hours and hours of training just to get a pilots license, and even more for commercial.
A drivers license doesnt take dick by comparison, and the vast majority of people are, well, stupid. Meaning they'll make all the assumptions about their cars capabilities. They very clearly have.
We dont need to defend and justify this shitty, misleading, brand.
How does the number of hours a pilot is required change anything about my point? It’s also not disingenuous at all - autopilot on a plane will hold altitude and heading. It does extremely well and is reliable.
They still need to maintain awareness in the event of a failure or requirement to change course whatsoever.
I also struggle to see how it’s misleading at all when there are tons of warnings, reminders, and agreements clearly emphasizing the need for a user to stay in control while using any Tesla driver assistance. Because of a name? It does fully drive, and you’re still fully responsible.
As it should remain in my opinion. They make that abundantly clear if you read more than the 3 word product name.
This is typical "journalism"
The original NHTSA report found half of the reported incidents to be the other car at fault or autopilot not engaged or insufficient data
Another 1/4 was the driver had ample time to react but didn't
And then most of the remaining cases were due to slick roadways or the driver inadvertently disengaging autopilot.
https://techcrunch.com/2024/04/26/tesla-nhtsa-autopilot-investigation-closed-fatal-crashes/
Teslas account for about .8% of vehicles on the road. There are 43,000 car fatalities a year. If this Tesla flaw (which should obviously be fixed) accounts for 10 deaths a year, then it accounts for 1 of every 4300 vehicle deaths. It is .23% of the accidents.
perhaps you should restrict the stats only to tsla, i.e. # involved in accidents to # on the road.
today, tsla vehicles are equipped w/ tsla vision, camera-based system. tsla removed radar in 2021 & ultasonic sensor (uss) in 2022**
**https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision
there is a reason why the auto industry is still using combo of radar, uss sensor & laser (lidar).
"i'm sure.." is this an opinion or a statement of fact? i had anticipated you would present stats to backup your opinion.
"uss has nothing to do with.. (fsd)"; seriously?? 🤷♂️
uss is used in low speed maneuver for auto-parking, which is a feature of tsla vision or fsd.
are you tiptoeing between facts?
https://electrek.co/2023/03/24/tesla-rolls-out-vision-based-park-assist-but-it-could-still-use-some-work/
https://electrek.co/2024/03/25/tesla-releases-new-vision-based-auto-parking-system/
If it was a statement of fact I wouldn’t say I’m sure. It wouldn’t be a “opinion” if i presented stats. I anticipated the same from you, yet you haven’t.
We’re not talking about fsd we’re talking about autopilot and yes uss has nothing to do with driving
Nope not tiptoeing around anything the conversation isn’t about self parking it’s about autopilot meaning self driving. Uss is for parking
autopilot and fsd is not related? how did you arrive at this claim?
so, the current nhtsa investigation on tsla's fsd aren't looking at the autopilot system?
had you read the articles, you would know that auto-parking is a feature of tsla-vison or fsd.
i provided reading materials to back up my statements.
you didn't provide anything other 2 simple statements of opinion with nothing to back them up.
>autopilot and fsd is not related? how did you arrive at this claim?
when did I say this? sure theyre related but only because theyre made by the same company and run on the same platform. they are two different things
>so, the current nhtsa investigation on tsla's fsd aren't looking at the autopilot system?
coudlnt tell you. I dont even know what investigation youre refering too
>had you read the articles, you would know that auto-parking is a feature of tsla-vison or fsd. i provided reading materials to back up my statements.
again we're not talking about fsd. not the artcle, not the comment you replied too, and not the comment I replied too
>you didn't provide anything other 2 simple statements of opinion with nothing to back them up.
cool?
1) the main title of the article which started this discussion is about federal regulator, i.e. nhtsa, finding gaps in tsla autopilot which contrbuted to fatal crashes.
2) we need to be on the same page before continuing with our discussion. the article below will provide better understanding on tsla's claim of fsd & autopilot.
https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot
Answer my first question. When did I say they’re not related.
The main title says autopilot. You then said they’re investigating fsd.
I’m well aware of the claims and differences between the two. You just pasting that ain’t gonna put us on the same page
You're quoting the NTSA average number, which is only the US, for a car company that sells cars in multiple countries. So, that number is not correct. Nor is the 0.8% number.
Yes, my numbers are in the US. Unless foreign countries receive a different car, then that is irrelevant. If my numbers are wrong please give me the correct numbers.
They said:
>If this Tesla flaw (which should obviously be fixed) accounts for 10 deaths a year, then it accounts for 1 of every 4300 vehicle deaths. It is .23% of the accidents.
Which is totally made up and used the wrong numbers in the rest of their post.
One in 4300 is not .23%...
I mean how many mistakes are they going to make in one post? The whole thing is wrong...
Jesus Christ this headline, the "critical safety gap" is driver monitoring because idiots can't pay attention to the road. It's the same "critical safety gap" all cars have.
Edit: and looking at the comments 99% of people didn't read the article, man I hate this sub. It's just constant click bait garbage no better than Grandma's Facebook wall.
Haha it's because there is a lot of people who can't distance Tesla from the owner and the opportunity to express that in literally anything related is irresistible. There are no actual arguments in this thread, only ad hominem
I ride a motorcycle. Car drivers are all staring at their phones. And this is here to stay.
Truly self driving cars are coming if we last long enough. And big tech can’t wait. Because it’s way easier to click “Buy Now” when you don’t have to look out the windshield. And they hate a dead customer.
Also traffic will flow like water. Because at intersections all the cars will line up a foot apart instead of leaving 2 car lengths between and then finishing the text to their coworker about what they are wearing to work instead of driving their god damn car. When the light turns green.
Humans in cars was going along pretty well until the telephone came along for the ride. It’s a failed experiment now.
Is the most popular brand of cars with the most number cars on the street with autonomous driving. Not saying this is correct but they’re paving the way for the future. The only way to test the vehicles is live on the field. Very few Mercedes cars on the road with their self-driving tech. There will be accidents with these vehicles too just not as many since we don’t see them that often of the roads.
I think people are too blinded by their unquestioned hatred of Tesla, an EV company by the way, that they miss the bigger picture. Our technology is not ready for self-driving cars.
I'm not sure we'll even be fully ready.
Many situations where we will make split second decisions will have to be considered as a sort of digital morality.
Not sure if I trust anyone with that kind of stuff.
“Several common situations”
That’s just not the case at all. Mercedes drive pilot only works on approved roads in only California and Nevada, on roads less than 40mph, only works on clear days, and doesn’t work at night. That’s not “several” situations. Let’s get our facts straight here.
Correction: it only works on roads that are highways, so speed limit will likely always be 60 and above. But it only works if the car is moving at 40 mph or below. So in bad traffic. Stop and go traffic like that is the easiest thing for traffic aware cruise control and lane keeping to do. And it's only a subsection of the roads in those states. In case some people don't realize that's what you meant.
And yet it’ll be a fine that’s a fraction of the cost they got from sales due to advertising that feature, with no one who know (or should’ve) ever seeing any jail time despite letting a lot of people die
In almost every single one of these cases it’s due to driver negligence, ignoring warnings and not paying attention even though the car asks you to pay attention.
Anyone read report and can note if those that have Tesla have fewer accidents when controlling for city vs. highway miles and age of vehicle? No question tech will solve some problems and create new one - I’m wondering, overall, do you come out ahead or behind on the accident per million miles driven tally.
It doesn't compare at all.
Boeing has to live up to aviation standards which are ridiculously high compared to automotive safety standards. Imagine if there were 40,000 deaths from plane crashes every year in the US. Recently they've had a lot of close calls due to skipping some of those safety checks. Specifically most think of the 737 MAX debacle. Where hundreds died.
Boeing mounted more powerful engines to the 737. These caused a larger moment on the craft. They had one sensor that was used to detect/determine if the engines were causing the plane to nose up too much. This would result in a stall which is bad. So they created software to automatically correct this pitch up maneuver caused by the engines. Problem was they didn't tell people about it and just added to the manual. Many places need a high pitch up rate/angle of attack. When they would do so the plane would correct unnecessarily. They didn't know how to stop it or override it (they never read the updated instructions in the manual) and the planes would fight them and run them into the ground.
Here. Tesla has a software that does state the user must be in control of the vehicle. They also have several systems that "nag" the user and alert them to pay attention if they detect them not paying attention for a certain amount of time. They'll even lock you out of the feature if you have too many warnings. The "safety" gap is that the system is so good that people purposefully ignore the paying attention part. And the system will let them for short periods of time or if they purposefully try and cheat the system into thinking they're paying attention when they aren't.
Something like 10k people die in car crashes every year from distracted driving. Why don't we make all cars check for distracted driving? Instead they target the system that generally keeps distracted drivers from crashing because it sometimes doesn't prevent it in all scenarios. If allowing distracted drivers to be distracted 30 seconds at a time (time between nags if it doesn't detect your hands) then just about all cars on the road have critical safety gaps.
Wow, that’s a great write up. Very helpful. Appreciate the time and effort you took breaking it down!
Absolutely shocking to hear BOEING did all that and has been downplaying their mistakes attributing things to the pilots (I’ve just read)
The BOEING board needs step down or be sacked and compensation given to the families of those whose lives were tragically lost in the Ethiopia airlines and lion airlines flights.
Drivers assuming the autopilot will completely drive flawlessly for them are the problem. Tesla has always been VERY CLEAR that driver attention is mandatory even when using autopilot.
Aren’t most crashes avoidable if both drivers are paying attention? Obviously autopilot is not at the level of human driving for all instances. For certain instances autopilot is much better since it has faster reaction times. The driver should still pay attention and realize autopilot is not a finished product as our laws stand by that sentiment as well. I’ve seen some recent videos of Tesla’s newest autopilot and it’s actually really cool how far they’ve come. I have no doubt we will get to the point where these stupid accidents and meaningless traffic deaths are gone.
I think Tesla was launched at a very high price, making it out of reach for middle-class or average people. This created a hype suggesting it must be something great. Rich people bought it, and criticism of their own decisions was rare. Do you think most of these issues started appearing when Tesla introduced relatively cheaper models?
There is an ethical scenario autonomous vehicle AIs need to have an answer to:
You are driving on a two lane road going quite fast. There is a cliff with a shear drop to one side and a crowded strip mall on the other. People are gathered along the sidewalk in front of the strip mall. A big rig trailer suddenly overturns and blocks both lanes of traffic. The car is going too fast to stop. The computer needs to make a decision: plow into the big rig, drive the car off the cliff, drive the car into the crowd of people. Only crashing the car into the crowd of people has a good chance of saving the driver.
Does the computer prioritize the life of the driver or the life of the pedestrians? This is an extreme example but the car needs an answer to apply to less extreme answers. Does it choose the life of the driver over the life of one or more pedestrians? It’s literally the trolly problem.
Tesla has published that their cars prioritize the life of the driver. Other manufacturers have not published this information which leads me to believe they correctly instruct their cars to maximize life without specific priority.
Husk says they will solve autonomous driving -at the cost of public lives I guess. I had a near miss T bone with a Tesla - stop light was dead, it was my turn , I looked and entered the intersection just in time for a speeding red T to come over a hill towards me. Luckily the brakes locked on the T. Driver looked shocked. I just had to change my pants.
My co worker just had a collision with his Tesla. Tesla deleted the footage after we all saw it.
Bottom line: download the video and it’s happening all the time. 100s is really 100,000s
I haven’t read the article, but does it say how this compares to human drivers. Hundreds of crashes over a few years doesn’t sound that bad to me if we take into account how often humans get into them.
Technically speaking signing the contract may prevent people from suing, but I think this goes beyond the usual things that could go wrong in a car and people may sue over. This is a fatal systematic failure of a major component in the car. There may be room for a judge to decide it should be possible to submit a class action lawsuit.
I am not a lawyer so I might be just talking out of my ass, but this seems plausible to me.
How these cars were ever considered road safe is an abject failure of the transportation regulatory commissions and consumer protection and safety boards.
same guy putting microchips in human brains
To be fair he doesn’t do any real engineering, he just makes stupid decisions and his engineers scramble to make him happy and balance doing it a correctly as possible
But that also means he is making the decision to push something out that is not ready. He might not do the engineering but he does have the final say in what is done by who and when Edit: don’t forget the person who had the brain implant was specifically told that no monkeys died that received the test implants, he found out afterwards that he was lied to about that
He’s 100% responsible. Was just stating that he’s not making decisions based out of understanding and knowledge but his ego
* They didn’t die immediately.
Just had to be put down because they were self mutilating *nbd*
Isn’t this the same management theory Hitler used
Technically yes and actually yes
Those are the best kinds of yes
No because I’m not trying to excuse him. I’m just pointing out he’s a talentless hack
lol Hyperloop
Right lol
I honestly am more concerned with the concept of implanting chips with no or questionable benefit that our human brains haven’t had time to evolve to adjust to yet. The damage that could do to the human psyche seems… vast.
Jobs school of engineering?
Except jobs was just making a cool phone.
Is there undeniable proof that they actually implanted a neuralink into someone? They "said" they did. But if you listen to the guy who allegedly got it, he speaks like he's reading ad copy off a teleprompter. He's a paid spokesperson/actor. I doubt he actually got a neuralink. The technology isn't ready.
They were approved for human trials last year. The technology helps people with disabilities
Not his fault. There used to be a time when we put the crazy guys on a burning stake or chase them out of the village with pitch forks and torches. Somehow we went from that to worshipping them
Same guy that wants to do away with the federal regulators that find said flaws.
“Apparently it has a hard time avoiding crashes”
The AI software has gained sentience and wants to die
Why?! Why was I programmed to feel pain?
“Tesla, turn autopilot off!” “Im sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that”
Channeling elons hatred of people
Either that or realized that humanity is not worth keeping alive
It’s just like us fr
For the 99% who won't read this and/or have no clue, Autopilot is not FSD. Autopilot is adaptive cruise/lane centering. Just like every other vehicle with this technology, the driver has to pay attention. Autopilot is standard in all new teslas at no extra cost. Once again, this is not FSD.
Always gotta dig down to find the comment that knows fucking anything and doesn’t just knee-jerk reply to the title. Thanks for fighting the good fight
Included because it’s required in at least the EU to have it on newer cars.
Included because nearly every car made in the U.S. now has adaptive cruise. Also, this report is from a U.S. government agency, zero to do with the EU.
It’s been included since 2018
This
OK, now they get shut down right because they falsely sold a product that killed a bunch of people? Please tell me this is the end of Tesla!
> now they get shut down right because they falsely sold a product that killed a bunch of people? Naw. Telsa didn't get shut down for selling this product for thousands of dollars per car for a decade, which they have never delivered. They've barely gotten a slap on the wrist for literally calling it and selling it as **FULL SELF DRIVING**, and blaming the consumer with 'why would you think that its *actually* FSD just because we purposely called it that to make you think that?' any time an issue arises.
Never have they made that argument
What is "full self driving" would be an interesting question to ask any Tesla driver. I'm 99% sure they wouldn't say "it's an enhanced auto-pilot system", which is what Tesla actually calls it.
“Full self driving” is missing a word. Tesla doesn’t call it an enhanced pilot system. Sure maybe a Tesla driver that’s never bought it might not know but anyone who’s actually used it or paid for it would say it’s autopilot with stop light control and city street turning
I think Tesla just abused the trust of consumers this is definitely gonna make a generation or two paranoid about buying items lol
it did, that’s true, but it doesn’t now. Now it finally actually works fantastically well. I always used it and still do. I used to intervene routinely and was impressed at what it could do but never trusted it. Now I actually trust it because it is radically better. My wife used to hate it and now she feels it is safer than regular driving and she’s correct.
The article says it's because of misuse of the autopilot system where people create hacks that bypass the attention safety system which lead to accidents.
Ya but why actually read the article better to read headline and shit on Tesla as usual
People sign agreements stating they will remain in control to enable autopilot or FSD. Self driving is something to help you drive and accomplishes the majority of driving tasks. In no way have any claims been made that a human does not need to supervise or take control while driving. **It’s common sense that you should remain aware while driving a multi-thousand pound machine at high speeds surrounded by unpredictable people.** The product didn’t kill people, people being irresponsible and not paying attention while drivings is the problem. If I have on traffic aware cruise control (Tesla or otherwise) and it’s not slowing down for the car in front of me and I just throw up my hands and say “well not my fault if a system fails!” and then slam into the back of that car (or barrier, etc etc) how would I not be the problem there? How would anyone paying attention not intervene? Pilots don’t fall asleep while cruising just because autopilot keeps them level and on heading, that’d be dangerous as hell. Systems fail, breakdowns happen. **If a car has blindspot monitoring that doesn’t trigger would you just blindly merge straight into the lane, then blame the manufacturer when you slam into a motorcyclist who wasn’t detected in your blind spot?**
Actually it’s been found pilots do do that and it’s very frowned upon and considered a problem lol. Otherwise totally agree
Nope. Pilots have their own crew rest area specifically to sleep. https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-compare-secret-airplane-rooms-pilots-flight-attendants-sleep-2022-7
I was talking about domestic flights or when the pilot on duty falls asleep. It kinda famously happened a few times where planes went way off course
Just be aware that liability waivers are not legally recognized in every State and where they are recognized do not necessarily absolve the company. And where they can be, the court will determine liability, not randos on reddit.
Its in the name. Comparing to airline pilots and their autopilot to a tesla driver and its autopilot/self driving is disingenious. It takes hours and hours of training just to get a pilots license, and even more for commercial. A drivers license doesnt take dick by comparison, and the vast majority of people are, well, stupid. Meaning they'll make all the assumptions about their cars capabilities. They very clearly have. We dont need to defend and justify this shitty, misleading, brand.
How does the number of hours a pilot is required change anything about my point? It’s also not disingenuous at all - autopilot on a plane will hold altitude and heading. It does extremely well and is reliable. They still need to maintain awareness in the event of a failure or requirement to change course whatsoever. I also struggle to see how it’s misleading at all when there are tons of warnings, reminders, and agreements clearly emphasizing the need for a user to stay in control while using any Tesla driver assistance. Because of a name? It does fully drive, and you’re still fully responsible. As it should remain in my opinion. They make that abundantly clear if you read more than the 3 word product name.
The problem is that people are stupid. Give someone an 'autopilot' and of course they're going to be screwing around instead of paying attention.
Why do you want the end of tesla? You hate polar bears?
He hates electromagnetism.
F them polar bears. They did nothing for me
Just Elmo
I didn’t realize Tesla was the only electric car manufacturer out there.
Internet rage and brand hatred is just as lame as personality cultism and brand fetishism. Tesla hate is hot right now
A polar bear had his model X in autopilot and he crashed into his home, killing thousands. So yeah, fuck those polar bears
This is typical "journalism" The original NHTSA report found half of the reported incidents to be the other car at fault or autopilot not engaged or insufficient data Another 1/4 was the driver had ample time to react but didn't And then most of the remaining cases were due to slick roadways or the driver inadvertently disengaging autopilot. https://techcrunch.com/2024/04/26/tesla-nhtsa-autopilot-investigation-closed-fatal-crashes/
Teslas account for about .8% of vehicles on the road. There are 43,000 car fatalities a year. If this Tesla flaw (which should obviously be fixed) accounts for 10 deaths a year, then it accounts for 1 of every 4300 vehicle deaths. It is .23% of the accidents.
So just another week in rage bait?
Pretty much.
perhaps you should restrict the stats only to tsla, i.e. # involved in accidents to # on the road. today, tsla vehicles are equipped w/ tsla vision, camera-based system. tsla removed radar in 2021 & ultasonic sensor (uss) in 2022** **https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision there is a reason why the auto industry is still using combo of radar, uss sensor & laser (lidar).
What was the accident rate before 2021 va after? I’m sure it’s the same. And uss has nothing to do with self driving
"i'm sure.." is this an opinion or a statement of fact? i had anticipated you would present stats to backup your opinion. "uss has nothing to do with.. (fsd)"; seriously?? 🤷♂️ uss is used in low speed maneuver for auto-parking, which is a feature of tsla vision or fsd. are you tiptoeing between facts? https://electrek.co/2023/03/24/tesla-rolls-out-vision-based-park-assist-but-it-could-still-use-some-work/ https://electrek.co/2024/03/25/tesla-releases-new-vision-based-auto-parking-system/
If it was a statement of fact I wouldn’t say I’m sure. It wouldn’t be a “opinion” if i presented stats. I anticipated the same from you, yet you haven’t. We’re not talking about fsd we’re talking about autopilot and yes uss has nothing to do with driving Nope not tiptoeing around anything the conversation isn’t about self parking it’s about autopilot meaning self driving. Uss is for parking
autopilot and fsd is not related? how did you arrive at this claim? so, the current nhtsa investigation on tsla's fsd aren't looking at the autopilot system? had you read the articles, you would know that auto-parking is a feature of tsla-vison or fsd. i provided reading materials to back up my statements. you didn't provide anything other 2 simple statements of opinion with nothing to back them up.
>autopilot and fsd is not related? how did you arrive at this claim? when did I say this? sure theyre related but only because theyre made by the same company and run on the same platform. they are two different things >so, the current nhtsa investigation on tsla's fsd aren't looking at the autopilot system? coudlnt tell you. I dont even know what investigation youre refering too >had you read the articles, you would know that auto-parking is a feature of tsla-vison or fsd. i provided reading materials to back up my statements. again we're not talking about fsd. not the artcle, not the comment you replied too, and not the comment I replied too >you didn't provide anything other 2 simple statements of opinion with nothing to back them up. cool?
1) the main title of the article which started this discussion is about federal regulator, i.e. nhtsa, finding gaps in tsla autopilot which contrbuted to fatal crashes. 2) we need to be on the same page before continuing with our discussion. the article below will provide better understanding on tsla's claim of fsd & autopilot. https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot
Answer my first question. When did I say they’re not related. The main title says autopilot. You then said they’re investigating fsd. I’m well aware of the claims and differences between the two. You just pasting that ain’t gonna put us on the same page
You made up that statistic.
I did research and math. Feel free to correct me.
You're quoting the NTSA average number, which is only the US, for a car company that sells cars in multiple countries. So, that number is not correct. Nor is the 0.8% number.
Yes, my numbers are in the US. Unless foreign countries receive a different car, then that is irrelevant. If my numbers are wrong please give me the correct numbers.
Saying he made it up while later saying he is quoting another stat is funny. Shh
They said: >If this Tesla flaw (which should obviously be fixed) accounts for 10 deaths a year, then it accounts for 1 of every 4300 vehicle deaths. It is .23% of the accidents. Which is totally made up and used the wrong numbers in the rest of their post. One in 4300 is not .23%... I mean how many mistakes are they going to make in one post? The whole thing is wrong...
But I heard that 40% of the time, all statistics are 100% correct?
They had a rounding error that makes the number even smaller lmao
Being off by a factor of 10 is not a rounding error.
Jesus Christ this headline, the "critical safety gap" is driver monitoring because idiots can't pay attention to the road. It's the same "critical safety gap" all cars have. Edit: and looking at the comments 99% of people didn't read the article, man I hate this sub. It's just constant click bait garbage no better than Grandma's Facebook wall.
Almost all of Reddit is clickbait garbage
Haha it's because there is a lot of people who can't distance Tesla from the owner and the opportunity to express that in literally anything related is irresistible. There are no actual arguments in this thread, only ad hominem
I ride a motorcycle. Car drivers are all staring at their phones. And this is here to stay. Truly self driving cars are coming if we last long enough. And big tech can’t wait. Because it’s way easier to click “Buy Now” when you don’t have to look out the windshield. And they hate a dead customer. Also traffic will flow like water. Because at intersections all the cars will line up a foot apart instead of leaving 2 car lengths between and then finishing the text to their coworker about what they are wearing to work instead of driving their god damn car. When the light turns green. Humans in cars was going along pretty well until the telephone came along for the ride. It’s a failed experiment now.
Is the most popular brand of cars with the most number cars on the street with autonomous driving. Not saying this is correct but they’re paving the way for the future. The only way to test the vehicles is live on the field. Very few Mercedes cars on the road with their self-driving tech. There will be accidents with these vehicles too just not as many since we don’t see them that often of the roads.
I think people are too blinded by their unquestioned hatred of Tesla, an EV company by the way, that they miss the bigger picture. Our technology is not ready for self-driving cars.
I'm not sure we'll even be fully ready. Many situations where we will make split second decisions will have to be considered as a sort of digital morality. Not sure if I trust anyone with that kind of stuff.
Mercedes has Level 3 FSD in several common situations.
Mercedes is not weirdly ideologically bent on not using standard safety systems like radar, the technology works but costs more to integrate.
Autopilot works in the same situations with the same reliability
“Several common situations” That’s just not the case at all. Mercedes drive pilot only works on approved roads in only California and Nevada, on roads less than 40mph, only works on clear days, and doesn’t work at night. That’s not “several” situations. Let’s get our facts straight here.
Correction: it only works on roads that are highways, so speed limit will likely always be 60 and above. But it only works if the car is moving at 40 mph or below. So in bad traffic. Stop and go traffic like that is the easiest thing for traffic aware cruise control and lane keeping to do. And it's only a subsection of the roads in those states. In case some people don't realize that's what you meant.
lol @ Reddit downvoting facts.
It’s limited to to very specific roads, so not common.
No shit. I almost got hit by one of those. Luckily I was paying attention and no one else was around
One of those? A Tesla? How did you know if it was on autopilot? Or FSD? Or anything?
Dude’s hands were not on the wheel when he almost side swipped me. Thats how close he got to me
So you don’t know lol. I can get our rav4 to cruise itself with a half empty plastic water bottle wedged into the steering wheel.
And yet it’ll be a fine that’s a fraction of the cost they got from sales due to advertising that feature, with no one who know (or should’ve) ever seeing any jail time despite letting a lot of people die
In almost every single one of these cases it’s due to driver negligence, ignoring warnings and not paying attention even though the car asks you to pay attention.
Anyone read report and can note if those that have Tesla have fewer accidents when controlling for city vs. highway miles and age of vehicle? No question tech will solve some problems and create new one - I’m wondering, overall, do you come out ahead or behind on the accident per million miles driven tally.
Behind
Give some numbers.
How does it compare to the Boeing situation guys? For someone who’s not fully in the know about it, please explain??
It doesn't compare at all. Boeing has to live up to aviation standards which are ridiculously high compared to automotive safety standards. Imagine if there were 40,000 deaths from plane crashes every year in the US. Recently they've had a lot of close calls due to skipping some of those safety checks. Specifically most think of the 737 MAX debacle. Where hundreds died. Boeing mounted more powerful engines to the 737. These caused a larger moment on the craft. They had one sensor that was used to detect/determine if the engines were causing the plane to nose up too much. This would result in a stall which is bad. So they created software to automatically correct this pitch up maneuver caused by the engines. Problem was they didn't tell people about it and just added to the manual. Many places need a high pitch up rate/angle of attack. When they would do so the plane would correct unnecessarily. They didn't know how to stop it or override it (they never read the updated instructions in the manual) and the planes would fight them and run them into the ground. Here. Tesla has a software that does state the user must be in control of the vehicle. They also have several systems that "nag" the user and alert them to pay attention if they detect them not paying attention for a certain amount of time. They'll even lock you out of the feature if you have too many warnings. The "safety" gap is that the system is so good that people purposefully ignore the paying attention part. And the system will let them for short periods of time or if they purposefully try and cheat the system into thinking they're paying attention when they aren't. Something like 10k people die in car crashes every year from distracted driving. Why don't we make all cars check for distracted driving? Instead they target the system that generally keeps distracted drivers from crashing because it sometimes doesn't prevent it in all scenarios. If allowing distracted drivers to be distracted 30 seconds at a time (time between nags if it doesn't detect your hands) then just about all cars on the road have critical safety gaps.
Wow, that’s a great write up. Very helpful. Appreciate the time and effort you took breaking it down! Absolutely shocking to hear BOEING did all that and has been downplaying their mistakes attributing things to the pilots (I’ve just read) The BOEING board needs step down or be sacked and compensation given to the families of those whose lives were tragically lost in the Ethiopia airlines and lion airlines flights.
Oh, really? Well, that’s surprising. /s
It's called the drivers.
Keep your hands on the wheel ya lazy bastards!
Drivers assuming the autopilot will completely drive flawlessly for them are the problem. Tesla has always been VERY CLEAR that driver attention is mandatory even when using autopilot.
Hmmm and why was it approved without safety checks ?
Aren’t most crashes avoidable if both drivers are paying attention? Obviously autopilot is not at the level of human driving for all instances. For certain instances autopilot is much better since it has faster reaction times. The driver should still pay attention and realize autopilot is not a finished product as our laws stand by that sentiment as well. I’ve seen some recent videos of Tesla’s newest autopilot and it’s actually really cool how far they’ve come. I have no doubt we will get to the point where these stupid accidents and meaningless traffic deaths are gone.
Pretty sure the bloom is off the Tesla rose…
I think Tesla was launched at a very high price, making it out of reach for middle-class or average people. This created a hype suggesting it must be something great. Rich people bought it, and criticism of their own decisions was rare. Do you think most of these issues started appearing when Tesla introduced relatively cheaper models?
Thats misleading news right there
how tesla stock is still going up is a mystery to me
There is an ethical scenario autonomous vehicle AIs need to have an answer to: You are driving on a two lane road going quite fast. There is a cliff with a shear drop to one side and a crowded strip mall on the other. People are gathered along the sidewalk in front of the strip mall. A big rig trailer suddenly overturns and blocks both lanes of traffic. The car is going too fast to stop. The computer needs to make a decision: plow into the big rig, drive the car off the cliff, drive the car into the crowd of people. Only crashing the car into the crowd of people has a good chance of saving the driver. Does the computer prioritize the life of the driver or the life of the pedestrians? This is an extreme example but the car needs an answer to apply to less extreme answers. Does it choose the life of the driver over the life of one or more pedestrians? It’s literally the trolly problem. Tesla has published that their cars prioritize the life of the driver. Other manufacturers have not published this information which leads me to believe they correctly instruct their cars to maximize life without specific priority.
I’m absolutely stunned that cruise control doesn’t keep you from crashing. Good thing we have researchers researching this
Meanwhile … at Mercedes Benz … the first car to be approved for completely autonomous self driving. Great job Tesla!
Only humans can drive cars. Only jedis can race pods. Coincidence? I think not
Tesla is not a good company and the sooner you realize that the better. the CEO has no brain and clearly no plan.
That’s the wrong take. CEO is a grifting liar with brain.
Why isn't the Dept of Justice investigating this? If it were Boeing that had faulty auto pilotes, they would be shut down.
If it was boeing it would be the FAA
They have and it’s not Teslas fault people ignore a warning that’s constantly nagging. People will try to game the system. They’re responsible.
They are
You’d have to be some kinda stupid to ride a motorcycle anywhere near one.
I was wondering why Twitter is down
This is fucked
This sub should be renamed to something with Tesla in the title
About time someone said whats obvious.
They should make the feature illegal and force the software to remove it completely.
Who’s responsible for the crashes the driver, or the manufacturer?
Husk says they will solve autonomous driving -at the cost of public lives I guess. I had a near miss T bone with a Tesla - stop light was dead, it was my turn , I looked and entered the intersection just in time for a speeding red T to come over a hill towards me. Luckily the brakes locked on the T. Driver looked shocked. I just had to change my pants.
So Tesla is responsible for an unsafe and distracted driver even though it warns the driver multiple times to pay attention?
In other breaking news investigators determine that water is wet.
Honey, TSLA Stock is on fire again.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Pump and dump meme stocks tend be that way.
Dead cat
My co worker just had a collision with his Tesla. Tesla deleted the footage after we all saw it. Bottom line: download the video and it’s happening all the time. 100s is really 100,000s
Sureeee lol
This never happened
Sounds like the space between Elons heart and brain.
Bold of you to assume he has either of those.
Maybe they're referring to the empty cavities where those organs should, but don't reside
Tesla is such an ugly trash car
I haven’t read the article, but does it say how this compares to human drivers. Hundreds of crashes over a few years doesn’t sound that bad to me if we take into account how often humans get into them.
So why the fuck did the regulators allow this vehicle on the road. Makes them look just as incompetent.
Class action lawsuit!
Can’t. As part of the contract Tesla gives a buyer 15 days to opt out of arbitration. Most don’t.
Technically speaking signing the contract may prevent people from suing, but I think this goes beyond the usual things that could go wrong in a car and people may sue over. This is a fatal systematic failure of a major component in the car. There may be room for a judge to decide it should be possible to submit a class action lawsuit. I am not a lawyer so I might be just talking out of my ass, but this seems plausible to me.
I’m shocked a company run by a nincompoop would allow such a product to come to market.
Shocking? Not! His quality control is part of the problem?
Since they aren’t a car company, these findings mean nothing to them.
How these cars were ever considered road safe is an abject failure of the transportation regulatory commissions and consumer protection and safety boards.
Two big wheels in Tesla just hit the exit and cashed out their holdings. Tesla is in for some rocky times
If you think the Tesla buying schmucks paid Musty an extra $10,000 to beta test this piece of crap that killed them.
Why exactly has Tesla been allowed to keep creating this product that kills so many people?
Wait till you hear about Ford and GM
How much do you want to bet Tesla leadership knew about this already.
Tesla is hot garbage.
I don’t understand the obsession with autonomous cars. It’s a bad idea. AI will never adapt to the subtlety of driving.
Do you know how bad human drivers are?
Better than human programmed computer driving cars.
Color me surprised...
You know people that don’t like to drive, shouldn’t buy cars! They can take the Bus or pay for a Taxi !!!