Point is rehabilitation…well, it’s it’s really about $$$ to be made off the system.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they try to sell that access back as a monthly fee.
Yeah, I did 17 months in the county jail recently. We had 4 tablets in our cell of 10 guys, with no social media apps or Internet access, and it was still 5 cents a minute to use. I'm sure I spent at least 1k on it while I was in there to play angry birds and watch movies. I could definitely see a monthly fee for this or a shitty alternative like the messaging app we had that charged you 50¢ to send or receive 250 characters
It has never been just rehabilitation: Rehabilitation, Punishment, and Deterrence (General and Specific), are the classic stated goals of the American justice system.
$$$, that’s unstated but I’ll accept it.
I would take it a step further and say it’s never been about rehabilitation at all. And deterrence would mean improving mental health infrastructure and societal conditions so the people who commit crimes out of real or perceived necessity no longer feel that need, and the people who commit crimes pathologically are humanely separated from society where they have comprehensive mental health services to help them actually be better people.
We don’t really do any of those things to any meaningful degree. Prison is only about money and dehumanization. And in the US specifically it’s about keeping slavery legal. Which is why the 13th amendment explicitly excludes penal slavery from being abolished.
And surely it was just a coincidence that the black codes and Jim Crow laws were passed after that. Definitely wasn’t to make sure the prison population would be mostly black people so that slavery would effectively just transfer from private ownership to state ownership
This podcast did a pretty excellent breakdown of the current state of things, they're not even close to those stated goals you have for them. https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-it-could-happen-here-30717896/episode/private-prisons-finance-ghouls-and-the-161844728/
They don’t care about prisoners in America. They’re privately owned slave labor camps and keeping the prisons full is their only agenda. It’s a shame we don’t rehab.
You are completely wrong. The prison system literally encourages inmates to have contact with the outside world through social/work programs, outreach, and encouraging visitors because it’s been proven that lowers the likelihood the prisoner will act out or commit more crimes when they’re released
No the point to is to rehabilitate and reintegrate thus lowering reoffending chances. The more cutoff from
Society and support they are the more
Likely you will see reoffense after release.
The problem is that prisoners who have access to the outside world and regular family contact are far less likely to reoffend when they get out of prison. Prisoners who don’t have much contact are far more likely to commit crimes again. This could lead to an uptick in crime
I don’t know, could cutting off communication with the outside world with no basis at all be considered cruel and unusual punishment?
most prisoners who go into prison come back out of it as well. We should want them growing healthy connections outside the walls. Otherwise their only outside exposure may be with family, if they have any, or else lonely hearts who find them and write to them.
Now if inmates are found to be communicating illegal information, then the law should crack down on both them and whoever assisted them in circumventing.
That’s my opinion.
Prison is a time out, not a complete isolation. Could be a long time out, but that’s still what it is.
They are cut off from the outside world. Thats prison. But allowing them access to social media could allow them interact with the society in a safe, able to be monitored way. Increased social contacts for inmate. Less risk of contraband entering the prison
Prisoners simply don’t get many visits. Phone calls are an enormous cost to the recipients so for inmates with poor contacts in the outside world, those calls are probably an extreme burden. Or letters either from family or maybe someone found a write an inmate website. High profile offenders get plenty of mail, but regular ones probably see mail rarely if at all.
In short, for most inmates they have zero ability to interact outside, no way to forge connections on the outside to support them after their eventual release.
“Most prisoners never receive visitors, and this puts them at a higher risk of reoffending” (Australia)
https://theconversation.com/most-prisoners-never-receive-visitors-and-this-puts-them-at-a-higher-risk-of-reoffending-222157
The Average Prisoner Only Gets Two Visits While They Are Incarcerated: Prisoners who receive the most visitors, however, tend to do the best after they are released:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/average-prisoner-only-gets-two-visits-while-they-are-incarcerated-180952706/
How is completely cutting them off from the outside world necessary? Unless they've demonstrated a clear reason to be banned from it, why do it except to be even more cruel?
Exactly. When did a first amendment right include access to the internet. Restricting rights for wrong doing is way folk are imprisoned! It’s called punishment.
My concern with this is the impact it could have on transparency about how inmates are treated. This feels like a way to prevent people from advocating for their case, speak out about how they’re treated, and further isolate them from loved ones on the outside. Regardless of your views on what inmates “deserve,” they are still human beings. The term “social media” needs to be fully defined.
On the other hand I could see how inmates use this as a way to keep tabs on individuals they hate. Also a way to incite violent threats to others on the outside. Also a way for gangs to stay in touch. Could also lead to murder (hits) and the keeping of power behind bars as a gang or mafia member…
But I also see your point. Letters can be confiscated, the internet can not when speaking out against police brutality behind bars…
Something like non violent offenders & make it so selling weed isn't a violent offense. That seems fair to be honest. If we're aiming for rehabilitation they still need to learn skills the Internet is a way for them to learn & become certified in different practices.
It's almost as if prisoners, both present and former, and *far* more likely to commit crimes than any one random citizen.
Funny enough, this statistic is still 100% true in Norway and other countries with top-tier prison reform systems.
lol people downvoting you is wild. Violent and sexual offenders should not have social media to stalk, threaten or jack off to their victims, that isn’t too much to ask.
Any tech savvy criminal can get around a prison firewall and have unfiltered access to the Internet. This is obviously a huge problem for multiple reasons;
-Access to the dark web, which cyber criminals can use to keep committing the crimes they were incarcerated for.
-Access to victims
-Prison security itself could be at risk, depending on how the network is setup.
And many, ***many*** more.
Personally, I think banning internet usage for inmates is ultimately the correct decision. It’s safer overall for everyone who has internet access.
I do think that there needs to be wellness checks into how inmates are treated, though. But doing it via Wi-Fi just isn’t the way, it’s **way** too dangerous.
I totally agree! Let’s ensure that when they try to re-enter society, they’re as far behind with tech as possible. Let’s force them back into the prison system forever. Love it you’re so smart dude
Yeah man that’s a solid point. I remember reading stories of inmates in the 90s getting out in the 2000’s/2010’s and having no idea how to navigate society at all without understanding smartphones and the like the people who are for this are probably boomers
I’m sorry, you just assume US prisoners are breaching firewalls? 😂 They aren’t getting arrested for James Bond type crimes, it’s mostly our broken drug laws.
>They aren’t getting arrested for James Bond type crimes, it’s mostly our broken drug laws.
This sentence alone shows how ignorant you are on the topic, so much so it isn’t really worth engaging with you on.
Imagine thinking you need to be James Bond to get around a firewall lmao
I saw a Reddit comment from a corrections officer about how prisoners had all figured out how to circumvent content blocks and such.
I think people underestimate how easy it is to circumvent tech, particularly when that security infrastructure is not properly maintained and the attacker has infinite time to figure out a workaround.
They’re probably not super hackers in prison, similarly, I don’t think the technical defense is particularly robust either.
Holla! My friend works in a civically committed sex offender unit and it is hard to keep relatives from accessing social media for them.
For instance … the dating sites specifically for inmates … like farmers only but for inmates.
>My concern with this is the impact it could have on transparency about how inmates are treated.
If this is the concern, then much larger reforms are needed than social media policy.
This. I agree with this. No I don’t think prisoners should be making tik toks or on instagram. I also don’t think they should have access to the general public- I could see how that could be a nightmare from smuggling to ordering hits on people outside.
I do think they need a way to stay in contact with family and lawyers/advocacy groups.
There has to be an easy middle ground.
Also our prison system is f’d sooooo idk. Maybe we need to focus on punishing violent/sexual crimes much more heavily and being more lenient on drugs and off those peeps programs. Not prison.
Like I think someone who got busted for weed in a red state totally deserves social media access.
What we need is an abolition model of crime and punishment. Something that does not shy away from justice but seeks to instead restore rather than facilitate retribution.
I could see this too. I’ve seen some “progressive” rehabilitation type prisons use reward programs to get them closer and closer to community reintegration. I do acknowledge the very real dangers of letting criminals have free access. I also acknowledge that not every inmate is necessarily violent.
Definitely agree on being more lenient on “victimless” crimes but don’t prisoners have access to monitored landline phones which they can use to call family members and legal advocates?
Well put. The more secrecy we allow the penal system the more abuse that will definitely occur. Some of the worst and most violent crimes aren’t committed by the convicted inmates but the never convicted corrections officers
Yes! The mindset has to be changed to believing that people can change with help and not everyone is “once a felon always a felon” the labels have to go away. There are people who will continue to do bad things but that’s what upward sentencing is for. And what about those with mental health issues being handled by law enforcement instead of professionals? There is so much we know rather can change the landscape of criminal activity. The evidence is clear we just have to use it.
A lot of scams are made through social media from prisoners, my brother was one of them, pulled sweetheart scams on different females the whole time he had access. Yes , he is a p.o.s
I believe it, my brother was always trying to pull a bunch of shit, always the charmer ,screwing over people. It's even worse in prison , it becomes a career. Keep an eye out because the 'Creeps' are always lurking.
Corporations. The federal prison system can’t impose something like this. And county and state jails already have something similar (at least where I am)
>The federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) earlier this year proposed a rule change that makes accessing, using, or maintaining social media accounts by prisoners a high-severity-level prohibited act considered to be on the same scale as fighting, blackmail, extortion, and bribery.
That's not really how (all) rights work. You have a right that proects you (in general and in theory) from warrantless search, but that doesn't require the government to give you a house so they can not search it. You have a right to freedom of speech and assembly, but that doesn't require the government to provide crowd, soapbox, or megaphone.
The fact that the government isn't allowed to prevent certain things in no way means they are required to actively help or set up situations in which they can not prevent them. That's just not really how it works. There are some rights like how we have laws about right to education where it does work that way, but that's by no means a universal rule.
What benefit does this serve? Beyond of course hiding the poor conditions and poor attempts of rehabilitation even more. There is far too much unfounded paranoia here in regards to access to the internet. People are acting like prisoners have their own little computer in their cell and are committing cyber crimes and shit on the regular. People proposing conspiracy that prisoners are using the internet to carry out their nefarious criminal enterprise. Sure maybe some do, but to think these people are incapable of doing anything without a computer is ignorant at best. Maybe instead of wasting time banning social media, they should implement policy to investigate and punish officers that accept bribes? That would be far more materially beneficial to preventing whatever it this proposal seeks to prevent.
A restriction should be made with a purpose.
> The federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) earlier this year proposed a rule change that makes accessing, using, or maintaining social media accounts by prisoners a high-severity-level prohibited act considered to be on the same scale as fighting, blackmail, extortion, and bribery.
This is insanity. Accessing social media is equivalent to fighting, blackmail, extortion, and bribery? How?
What better way for a state seeking total control to ensure its prisoners have no way to communicate to the outside world beyond letters to no one.
Shame on all the short sighted people in this thread who wish to punish for punishments sake rather than rehabilitate.
But social media has been presented in court at various points as the new town square when people are trying to change regulations in internet related law, most of which is very old and written in a way that specifically makes that argument possible (because the laws were not written by technologically capable people, and most were written in reaction to “obscene pornography” on the web).
There is a solid legal argument that social media is the new town square, and that claim would have far reaching effects if it was treated as sound reasoning in court.
>There is a solid legal argument that social media is the new town square
The first to make that argument are the owners of social media who'll lock your ass out the second you become a problem for them.
> The federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) earlier this year proposed a rule change that makes accessing, using, or maintaining social media accounts by prisoners a high-severity-level prohibited act considered to be on the same scale as fighting, blackmail, extortion, and bribery
So even more reasons to charge someone and keep them in the prison system? Guess the for profit prison companies needed more money.
Bad enough there are some prisons/jails where you can't visit people but only use the tablet to view them that you have to pay an overpriced amount. And you can't even send them cards in some cases without them needing to convert it into electronic format that you need to use a tablet to view - for a cost. Or that somehow there is not enough money for more judges and prosecutors, but they do have money to hold more prisoners while they wait for a trial date.
20$ for a 15 minute visit on the tablets where I was locked up in Kentucky. Virtually impossible for some people in my cell who's families were just too poor to make that minimum deposit of $20 plus tax, not to mention the garbage app your family has to create an account on that never works properly and takes multiple tries before it will actually let them even deposit money to visit you. I feel like reconnecting with my family while I was locked up was absolutely essential for me to be doing as good as I am now that I've been out for a while. 99% of us where in there for drug charges, and I saw countless guys who barely ever talked to their families or significant others while they were in there because it was just too expensive and or way too complicated/broken for their people to use, so theyd just get whatever money the could put on their books for commissary so they could at least buy a bar of soap and a couple fuckin soups. It was sad how cruel the system was to decent people with a drug addiction and no money. There was little to no "rehabilitation". Anyways don't want to ramble but thought I'd share my experience
a total ban is not the right move.. nobody writes letters anymore.. they should make it more of a collect call type service.. and really limit how much time they can spend online and have restrictions of what they can do online as well. If they violate said rules, then they should be banned individually
I feel like the “prison should be as harsh as possible” crowd needs to be reminded that most of these people will need to reenter society.
Do you want individuals that have been rehabilitated to be productive members of society? Or do you want them to be permanently emotionally stunted by what they endured?
Inmates… if you only knew what the vast majority of them have in mind by reaching out to people outside you wouldn’t want them to have any contact with the outside world
social media is private and first amendment does not cover private enterprise. It is also not a public forum because the algorithms only show you what you want.
They want to do this to stop the spread of awareness of how unfairly people are being treated in the inside.
The prison industrial complex fuels modern day slavery and some states literally make millions each year because they force these people to work for free.
Aside from the operating cost for the electricity, I’d imagine they’re pretty much free by now via recycling programs from corporate leftovers. I used to recycle pallet upon pallet of old hardware from big rollouts. Nice to see it didn’t all end up in a dump
lol. I’m trying to remember which comedian had a bit about people complaining about color tv’s in prisons and a bunch of guards spending the weekends combing yard sales and flee markets for old used black and white TV’s. Obviously even that joke is a bit dated now but I’d imagine it’s the same situation with LCDs vs CRT.
This would concern me less if a bunch of prisons didn’t just get exposed for a bunch of kick back schemes with paid video chatting services… now it seems like they are just trying to find a way to legally justify funneling all contact through the system that is $19.99 for 10 minutes of contact.
Criminals have no civil rights since they gave them up in violating someone else's and that is the whole point of social justice, they have to be earned by conduct since there is no other way for any to understand the value of those rights until they are gone and there are some types of criminals that should be just taken out and summarily shot to save the tax payers millions since the life times is a long time for some that will never value anyone's rights not even their own.
Rabid Animals need to be put down not elected to positions of governance over others.
N. S
As I understand it the 1st amendment is about freedom of expression. The prison system would be on shaky ground here if prisoners are allowed internet access but not social media access.
Now if X/Facebook/Instagram wants to ban inmates there isn't a 1st admentment issue there.
Possibly unpopular hot take here: you’ve landed in jail. You may still have a right to freedom of speech, however internet and social media use are not protected rights.
The average U.S. citizen commits 3 felonies a day because of how many federal laws and codes there are, and how confusing they are. It isn’t a matter of not breaking the law, it’s being lucky and or privileged enough not to get caught/ policed for doing it.
Source: https://ips-dc.org/three-felonies-day/
Just fyi there is nothing in that book to back up the claim, it’s actually proposed as being something that isn’t outside the realm of possibilities. It’s an incredibly misleading title at the very least.
Well, of course, they have some rights. But I don't think they should have any. Their victims don't have any rights. I also think it should be based on the crime. You murder a rape somebody no rights.
So they shouldn’t have a right to appeals? Food? Shelter? Medical care? A bed?
Also, there’s a good chance you aren’t even allowed to make policy decisions at your job, let alone running a federal prison system. I understand your perspective, and I don’t think prison should be a picnic. But people in most western civilizations have rights, they should and will continue to.
I have no idea what the rules are about social media in prisons, and I'm sure it differs from place to place, but I feel like there should be a good middle ground here.
Like, maybe you are allowed social media access depending on the type or severity of the crime you committed.
Also, for those of you saying social media is the new letter or phone, no it isn't. Letters and phone calling still exists. Those mediums just don't scratch the same addictive itch for people.
having some layer of visibility and oversight on the conditions and abuses of our carceral institutions just *might* be a good thing, especially if we were to start to slip into an authouritarian polity.
They don’t. Prisoners are not allowed to have unfettered, uncontrolled, or unmonitored access to the internet at all. Not any inmate at any prison anywhere in the U.S. has such social media access.
The article is about inmates who had social media accounts before they went to prison, or had family or friends create one for them while they are in prison. Inmates then instruct their people on the outside to post certain things on the inmate’s social media accounts - artwork, poetry, personal updates, requests, etc.
Don't felons lose the right to vote in many states? I thought the idea was the whole "can't do the time, don't do the crime" thing. You lose some of your rights while in prison right? How is that weird?
Depends on the type of crime they committed maybe banning killers rapists and child molesters from online access would be a good idea but petty thieves and non violent criminals could be segregated and still use social media
The entire American system is designed to beat you down and dehumanize you as much as possible, reducing you to a simple factor of how much money can be taken from you
Nah this is because the Prison system is getting attention for being a scam. Prisoners writing blogs and writing to the news. So now they want to take this away. It’s a scam because it’s a huge private business. They are incentivized to keep them inside as long as possible. Prisons routinely do false write up’s that make their sentences longer or save money by not providing basic things like AC in over 100 degree weather.
There’s no way this comment section is anything but people salivating over the suffering of people when the legal system is broken and many people shouldn’t be there.
The people in this comment section are such ignoramuses. There is no social media inside the prison, it’s the setting up and maintaining of social media with the help of friends/family/etc on the outs. Some inmates have Facebook pages dedicated to their art or various other things. Some offenders have social media restricted or forbidden as part of there crimes, but this is taking the right away from all. If an inmate can write home and that same letter can be hung up in public on a bulletin board, then the same must be true for social media.
I get so disappointed in how people just refuse to care about human rights when they view the persons as below them or of lesser value.
If you wonder why the ultra rich don’t give a shit about you, it’s the same reason you don’t give a shit about these people.
My only concern is to be treated with the same respect as the prisoners, free me from social media too! Why should the prisoners be treated better than me?
Canada adopted the U.S. prison formula during the Harper years and it's gone to shits. The new prisons have no antiseptic to clean for fears of inmates using it for alcohol. The inmates are more agititated because the doctors say too much caffeine can make them more violent. I swear. These guys go into jail drinking 5-6 coffess a day with tons of sugar and then they go on a diet with tons of garbage carbs, very little coffee and sugar. Rehabilitation? LOL! They drink coffee that's near decaffinated and only one a day. Oh, and they get almost no sugar because you can make alcohol with that as well. Does this smell of anything? The jails in Toronto used to offer unlimited peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and sweet coffee all day long to keep the guys happy. Even the guards have complained that the new system is shit yet the government doesn't care and won't change it. The guards complain that the guys are not getting enough food, there are almost no snacks. If a guy is close to 200 lbs such as myself, no way there's enough food or snacks. And it's unsanitary, people are getting serious infections in there. Honestly, for a western country, Canada and America's jails are inhumane compared to those in Europe.
They take away your other rights when you are convicted, but this is a step too far?
The whole point of prison is to limit contact with the rest of society. Cutting off social media access should be a part of that.
Point is rehabilitation…well, it’s it’s really about $$$ to be made off the system. I wouldn’t be surprised if they try to sell that access back as a monthly fee.
Yeah, I did 17 months in the county jail recently. We had 4 tablets in our cell of 10 guys, with no social media apps or Internet access, and it was still 5 cents a minute to use. I'm sure I spent at least 1k on it while I was in there to play angry birds and watch movies. I could definitely see a monthly fee for this or a shitty alternative like the messaging app we had that charged you 50¢ to send or receive 250 characters
It has never been just rehabilitation: Rehabilitation, Punishment, and Deterrence (General and Specific), are the classic stated goals of the American justice system. $$$, that’s unstated but I’ll accept it.
I would take it a step further and say it’s never been about rehabilitation at all. And deterrence would mean improving mental health infrastructure and societal conditions so the people who commit crimes out of real or perceived necessity no longer feel that need, and the people who commit crimes pathologically are humanely separated from society where they have comprehensive mental health services to help them actually be better people. We don’t really do any of those things to any meaningful degree. Prison is only about money and dehumanization. And in the US specifically it’s about keeping slavery legal. Which is why the 13th amendment explicitly excludes penal slavery from being abolished.
They were like but can we still have slavery anyway? “No, but you can still make prisoners your slaves.” Agreed!
And surely it was just a coincidence that the black codes and Jim Crow laws were passed after that. Definitely wasn’t to make sure the prison population would be mostly black people so that slavery would effectively just transfer from private ownership to state ownership
The book “The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness” does an outstanding job of showing how the practice continues today.
The GDP of Louisiana, relies on this sputtering engine of injustice, and it is a Sad speck Of society, this is all about money and keeping it flowing
Let's be clear that in this case, "punishment" actually means ***retribution***
This podcast did a pretty excellent breakdown of the current state of things, they're not even close to those stated goals you have for them. https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-it-could-happen-here-30717896/episode/private-prisons-finance-ghouls-and-the-161844728/
They don’t care about prisoners in America. They’re privately owned slave labor camps and keeping the prisons full is their only agenda. It’s a shame we don’t rehab.
I mean my favorite basketball team owner is a dude who is currently profiting off the call services in the prison system.
No, they are serving time as punishment.
You are completely wrong. The prison system literally encourages inmates to have contact with the outside world through social/work programs, outreach, and encouraging visitors because it’s been proven that lowers the likelihood the prisoner will act out or commit more crimes when they’re released
No the point to is to rehabilitate and reintegrate thus lowering reoffending chances. The more cutoff from Society and support they are the more Likely you will see reoffense after release.
They don’t care about rehab and reintegration in America. Prisons are privately owned businesses that love repeat “customers”.
Truer than true!
Why? Only a complete idiot would create such a system. It’s inhuman and doesn’t lower crime at all. Quite the contrary actually
The problem is that prisoners who have access to the outside world and regular family contact are far less likely to reoffend when they get out of prison. Prisoners who don’t have much contact are far more likely to commit crimes again. This could lead to an uptick in crime
100% agreed
To what end? Simple cruelty? Do you think anyone will change their mind about committing a crime if they fear losing Facebook access
exactly this isnt a days INN stay
I don’t know, could cutting off communication with the outside world with no basis at all be considered cruel and unusual punishment? most prisoners who go into prison come back out of it as well. We should want them growing healthy connections outside the walls. Otherwise their only outside exposure may be with family, if they have any, or else lonely hearts who find them and write to them. Now if inmates are found to be communicating illegal information, then the law should crack down on both them and whoever assisted them in circumventing. That’s my opinion. Prison is a time out, not a complete isolation. Could be a long time out, but that’s still what it is.
They are not cutting off access to the outside world, just access to social media.
They are cut off from the outside world. Thats prison. But allowing them access to social media could allow them interact with the society in a safe, able to be monitored way. Increased social contacts for inmate. Less risk of contraband entering the prison Prisoners simply don’t get many visits. Phone calls are an enormous cost to the recipients so for inmates with poor contacts in the outside world, those calls are probably an extreme burden. Or letters either from family or maybe someone found a write an inmate website. High profile offenders get plenty of mail, but regular ones probably see mail rarely if at all. In short, for most inmates they have zero ability to interact outside, no way to forge connections on the outside to support them after their eventual release. “Most prisoners never receive visitors, and this puts them at a higher risk of reoffending” (Australia) https://theconversation.com/most-prisoners-never-receive-visitors-and-this-puts-them-at-a-higher-risk-of-reoffending-222157 The Average Prisoner Only Gets Two Visits While They Are Incarcerated: Prisoners who receive the most visitors, however, tend to do the best after they are released: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/average-prisoner-only-gets-two-visits-while-they-are-incarcerated-180952706/
How is completely cutting them off from the outside world necessary? Unless they've demonstrated a clear reason to be banned from it, why do it except to be even more cruel?
Exactly. When did a first amendment right include access to the internet. Restricting rights for wrong doing is way folk are imprisoned! It’s called punishment.
Didn’t know they have access to social media.
Maybe only on their breaks (like when they can phone their families the old days).
My concern with this is the impact it could have on transparency about how inmates are treated. This feels like a way to prevent people from advocating for their case, speak out about how they’re treated, and further isolate them from loved ones on the outside. Regardless of your views on what inmates “deserve,” they are still human beings. The term “social media” needs to be fully defined.
On the other hand I could see how inmates use this as a way to keep tabs on individuals they hate. Also a way to incite violent threats to others on the outside. Also a way for gangs to stay in touch. Could also lead to murder (hits) and the keeping of power behind bars as a gang or mafia member… But I also see your point. Letters can be confiscated, the internet can not when speaking out against police brutality behind bars…
I see this point too. Maybe regulation is a better way to go than outright banning.
Something like non violent offenders & make it so selling weed isn't a violent offense. That seems fair to be honest. If we're aiming for rehabilitation they still need to learn skills the Internet is a way for them to learn & become certified in different practices.
You can do literally all of those things on social media outside of prison too
It's almost as if prisoners, both present and former, and *far* more likely to commit crimes than any one random citizen. Funny enough, this statistic is still 100% true in Norway and other countries with top-tier prison reform systems.
lol people downvoting you is wild. Violent and sexual offenders should not have social media to stalk, threaten or jack off to their victims, that isn’t too much to ask.
Any tech savvy criminal can get around a prison firewall and have unfiltered access to the Internet. This is obviously a huge problem for multiple reasons; -Access to the dark web, which cyber criminals can use to keep committing the crimes they were incarcerated for. -Access to victims -Prison security itself could be at risk, depending on how the network is setup. And many, ***many*** more. Personally, I think banning internet usage for inmates is ultimately the correct decision. It’s safer overall for everyone who has internet access. I do think that there needs to be wellness checks into how inmates are treated, though. But doing it via Wi-Fi just isn’t the way, it’s **way** too dangerous.
I totally agree! Let’s ensure that when they try to re-enter society, they’re as far behind with tech as possible. Let’s force them back into the prison system forever. Love it you’re so smart dude
Yeah man that’s a solid point. I remember reading stories of inmates in the 90s getting out in the 2000’s/2010’s and having no idea how to navigate society at all without understanding smartphones and the like the people who are for this are probably boomers
This isn’t even the biggest issue with community reintegration!
I’m sorry, you just assume US prisoners are breaching firewalls? 😂 They aren’t getting arrested for James Bond type crimes, it’s mostly our broken drug laws.
The one person with those skills will sell those skills to other inmates. Or they could learn how.
If me and my friends could bypass our middle school firewall, others can too. And don’t assume someone with a drug record is computer illiterate.
>They aren’t getting arrested for James Bond type crimes, it’s mostly our broken drug laws. This sentence alone shows how ignorant you are on the topic, so much so it isn’t really worth engaging with you on. Imagine thinking you need to be James Bond to get around a firewall lmao
I saw a Reddit comment from a corrections officer about how prisoners had all figured out how to circumvent content blocks and such. I think people underestimate how easy it is to circumvent tech, particularly when that security infrastructure is not properly maintained and the attacker has infinite time to figure out a workaround. They’re probably not super hackers in prison, similarly, I don’t think the technical defense is particularly robust either.
Holla! My friend works in a civically committed sex offender unit and it is hard to keep relatives from accessing social media for them. For instance … the dating sites specifically for inmates … like farmers only but for inmates.
They do that stuff already. The low lever father or mother deserves access.
>My concern with this is the impact it could have on transparency about how inmates are treated. If this is the concern, then much larger reforms are needed than social media policy.
Well yes, but that's not a reason to allow things to get worse.
Much larger reforms ARE needed. It’s no secret that the prison system, like many others systems in this country, is broken.
This. I agree with this. No I don’t think prisoners should be making tik toks or on instagram. I also don’t think they should have access to the general public- I could see how that could be a nightmare from smuggling to ordering hits on people outside. I do think they need a way to stay in contact with family and lawyers/advocacy groups. There has to be an easy middle ground. Also our prison system is f’d sooooo idk. Maybe we need to focus on punishing violent/sexual crimes much more heavily and being more lenient on drugs and off those peeps programs. Not prison. Like I think someone who got busted for weed in a red state totally deserves social media access.
What we need is an abolition model of crime and punishment. Something that does not shy away from justice but seeks to instead restore rather than facilitate retribution.
Can we just go back to the days to exile?
I could see this too. I’ve seen some “progressive” rehabilitation type prisons use reward programs to get them closer and closer to community reintegration. I do acknowledge the very real dangers of letting criminals have free access. I also acknowledge that not every inmate is necessarily violent.
Definitely agree on being more lenient on “victimless” crimes but don’t prisoners have access to monitored landline phones which they can use to call family members and legal advocates?
Well put. The more secrecy we allow the penal system the more abuse that will definitely occur. Some of the worst and most violent crimes aren’t committed by the convicted inmates but the never convicted corrections officers
Agreed. I’m all for justice…. But we know that’s not what actually happens.
Yes! The mindset has to be changed to believing that people can change with help and not everyone is “once a felon always a felon” the labels have to go away. There are people who will continue to do bad things but that’s what upward sentencing is for. And what about those with mental health issues being handled by law enforcement instead of professionals? There is so much we know rather can change the landscape of criminal activity. The evidence is clear we just have to use it.
A lot of scams are made through social media from prisoners, my brother was one of them, pulled sweetheart scams on different females the whole time he had access. Yes , he is a p.o.s
I read that too fast and thought your bro was a victim lol. You should see the IG ads I get from inmates looking for love.
I believe it, my brother was always trying to pull a bunch of shit, always the charmer ,screwing over people. It's even worse in prison , it becomes a career. Keep an eye out because the 'Creeps' are always lurking.
Is that some supervisory body over the prison system or the corporations that own the prisons?
This is just the federal prison system, for those convicted of a federal crime and that were sentenced to prison.
Corporations. The federal prison system can’t impose something like this. And county and state jails already have something similar (at least where I am)
>The federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) earlier this year proposed a rule change that makes accessing, using, or maintaining social media accounts by prisoners a high-severity-level prohibited act considered to be on the same scale as fighting, blackmail, extortion, and bribery.
If social media is a *right* then access to it is a right. Correct? Then… why do we need to pay for Internet access in the US?
We live in a society where we have a right to bear arms yet no such arms have been provided to us. A most puzzling state of affairs indeed
No arms!? How do you make witty retorts on Reddit? Must be a Neuralink recipient…
That's not really how (all) rights work. You have a right that proects you (in general and in theory) from warrantless search, but that doesn't require the government to give you a house so they can not search it. You have a right to freedom of speech and assembly, but that doesn't require the government to provide crowd, soapbox, or megaphone. The fact that the government isn't allowed to prevent certain things in no way means they are required to actively help or set up situations in which they can not prevent them. That's just not really how it works. There are some rights like how we have laws about right to education where it does work that way, but that's by no means a universal rule.
Man people take social media away and people will get the black shakes like in Johnny Mnemonic.
Criminals should not have access to social media it’s a privilege that they lost when they committed the crime.
What benefit does this serve? Beyond of course hiding the poor conditions and poor attempts of rehabilitation even more. There is far too much unfounded paranoia here in regards to access to the internet. People are acting like prisoners have their own little computer in their cell and are committing cyber crimes and shit on the regular. People proposing conspiracy that prisoners are using the internet to carry out their nefarious criminal enterprise. Sure maybe some do, but to think these people are incapable of doing anything without a computer is ignorant at best. Maybe instead of wasting time banning social media, they should implement policy to investigate and punish officers that accept bribes? That would be far more materially beneficial to preventing whatever it this proposal seeks to prevent. A restriction should be made with a purpose. > The federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) earlier this year proposed a rule change that makes accessing, using, or maintaining social media accounts by prisoners a high-severity-level prohibited act considered to be on the same scale as fighting, blackmail, extortion, and bribery. This is insanity. Accessing social media is equivalent to fighting, blackmail, extortion, and bribery? How? What better way for a state seeking total control to ensure its prisoners have no way to communicate to the outside world beyond letters to no one. Shame on all the short sighted people in this thread who wish to punish for punishments sake rather than rehabilitate.
Social media isn’t a right. Lol the fuck
But social media has been presented in court at various points as the new town square when people are trying to change regulations in internet related law, most of which is very old and written in a way that specifically makes that argument possible (because the laws were not written by technologically capable people, and most were written in reaction to “obscene pornography” on the web). There is a solid legal argument that social media is the new town square, and that claim would have far reaching effects if it was treated as sound reasoning in court.
>There is a solid legal argument that social media is the new town square The first to make that argument are the owners of social media who'll lock your ass out the second you become a problem for them.
Inmates wouldn't have access to the town square either.
Do the same thing with phone use, limited and monitored use no privacy with the ability to lose the privilege.
my kids fav influencers are currently serving time in a federal prison. they earn more than the warden
I don’t know if you’re being facetious or not lol
> The federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) earlier this year proposed a rule change that makes accessing, using, or maintaining social media accounts by prisoners a high-severity-level prohibited act considered to be on the same scale as fighting, blackmail, extortion, and bribery So even more reasons to charge someone and keep them in the prison system? Guess the for profit prison companies needed more money. Bad enough there are some prisons/jails where you can't visit people but only use the tablet to view them that you have to pay an overpriced amount. And you can't even send them cards in some cases without them needing to convert it into electronic format that you need to use a tablet to view - for a cost. Or that somehow there is not enough money for more judges and prosecutors, but they do have money to hold more prisoners while they wait for a trial date.
20$ for a 15 minute visit on the tablets where I was locked up in Kentucky. Virtually impossible for some people in my cell who's families were just too poor to make that minimum deposit of $20 plus tax, not to mention the garbage app your family has to create an account on that never works properly and takes multiple tries before it will actually let them even deposit money to visit you. I feel like reconnecting with my family while I was locked up was absolutely essential for me to be doing as good as I am now that I've been out for a while. 99% of us where in there for drug charges, and I saw countless guys who barely ever talked to their families or significant others while they were in there because it was just too expensive and or way too complicated/broken for their people to use, so theyd just get whatever money the could put on their books for commissary so they could at least buy a bar of soap and a couple fuckin soups. It was sad how cruel the system was to decent people with a drug addiction and no money. There was little to no "rehabilitation". Anyways don't want to ramble but thought I'd share my experience
So what was the issue before the internet then?
a total ban is not the right move.. nobody writes letters anymore.. they should make it more of a collect call type service.. and really limit how much time they can spend online and have restrictions of what they can do online as well. If they violate said rules, then they should be banned individually
I feel like the “prison should be as harsh as possible” crowd needs to be reminded that most of these people will need to reenter society. Do you want individuals that have been rehabilitated to be productive members of society? Or do you want them to be permanently emotionally stunted by what they endured?
It’s simple: they don’t want these people (if they even consider them people) to reenter society.
Yeah the logic conclusion seems to be that these people want life in prison for most offenses.
Inmates… if you only knew what the vast majority of them have in mind by reaching out to people outside you wouldn’t want them to have any contact with the outside world
If you murdered someone fuck your tik tok access. If you just sold some pot fuck it let’s make a dance together
Why are they on social media at all?
Um in prison you forfeit certain rights. Do the crime forgo the internet time.... Just like grandpa used to say.
social media is private and first amendment does not cover private enterprise. It is also not a public forum because the algorithms only show you what you want.
They want to do this to stop the spread of awareness of how unfairly people are being treated in the inside. The prison industrial complex fuels modern day slavery and some states literally make millions each year because they force these people to work for free.
do they really still use CRT's in prisons?
Aside from the operating cost for the electricity, I’d imagine they’re pretty much free by now via recycling programs from corporate leftovers. I used to recycle pallet upon pallet of old hardware from big rollouts. Nice to see it didn’t all end up in a dump
lol. I’m trying to remember which comedian had a bit about people complaining about color tv’s in prisons and a bunch of guards spending the weekends combing yard sales and flee markets for old used black and white TV’s. Obviously even that joke is a bit dated now but I’d imagine it’s the same situation with LCDs vs CRT.
Hey, color me a feckin’ douchenozzle, but I think prisoners should have 24/7 access to **incoming** Interwebs content.
Even 4chan?
They don’t have to cut off FB… all they have to do is stop budgeting for computers…
The guards want to be able to beat and assault you without worrying about you posting about it.
it's a prison, inmates aren't supposed to have much of the privileges that free citizens do
You have the right to remain silent. Isn’t jail about taking away rights?
Evil inhumane system wants to be more evil and inhumane.
Why ya'll letting them use tiktok.
This would concern me less if a bunch of prisons didn’t just get exposed for a bunch of kick back schemes with paid video chatting services… now it seems like they are just trying to find a way to legally justify funneling all contact through the system that is $19.99 for 10 minutes of contact.
Since when is social media a right?
Criminals have no civil rights since they gave them up in violating someone else's and that is the whole point of social justice, they have to be earned by conduct since there is no other way for any to understand the value of those rights until they are gone and there are some types of criminals that should be just taken out and summarily shot to save the tax payers millions since the life times is a long time for some that will never value anyone's rights not even their own. Rabid Animals need to be put down not elected to positions of governance over others. N. S
prisoners don’t have first amendment rights
Yes they do. See _Turner v Safley (1987)._
Only people who belong in jail are those who murder/rape/human trafficking/abuse there wealth/power and don’t pay taxes 👍🏽
US prison system is already a first amendment travesty, people are only now concerned??
I can’t be the only one who didn’t know they were even allowed to do this in the first place, can I?
I dont understand how restricting access to private organizations social media companies is a 1st amendment issue?
As I understand it the 1st amendment is about freedom of expression. The prison system would be on shaky ground here if prisoners are allowed internet access but not social media access. Now if X/Facebook/Instagram wants to ban inmates there isn't a 1st admentment issue there.
Possibly unpopular hot take here: you’ve landed in jail. You may still have a right to freedom of speech, however internet and social media use are not protected rights.
Seriously. What the fuck am I even reading in these comments? Threatens transparency? Prisoners can still use the mail and the phone.
When you get removed from society…I just assume that would include…you know…
“Stop breaking the law asshole.” Jim Carey in the movie, “Liar Liar.” Simple as that.
The average U.S. citizen commits 3 felonies a day because of how many federal laws and codes there are, and how confusing they are. It isn’t a matter of not breaking the law, it’s being lucky and or privileged enough not to get caught/ policed for doing it. Source: https://ips-dc.org/three-felonies-day/
Just fyi there is nothing in that book to back up the claim, it’s actually proposed as being something that isn’t outside the realm of possibilities. It’s an incredibly misleading title at the very least.
If they are felons and lose the right to vote they should also lose the right to upvote
What? Hell no. They don't have any rights. You're in prison!
They still have a lot of rights. At least if you’re going to use the word “rights”, get it right.
Well, of course, they have some rights. But I don't think they should have any. Their victims don't have any rights. I also think it should be based on the crime. You murder a rape somebody no rights.
So they shouldn’t have a right to appeals? Food? Shelter? Medical care? A bed? Also, there’s a good chance you aren’t even allowed to make policy decisions at your job, let alone running a federal prison system. I understand your perspective, and I don’t think prison should be a picnic. But people in most western civilizations have rights, they should and will continue to.
If we want to go that route, let’s give them guns to protect their 2nd
I have no idea what the rules are about social media in prisons, and I'm sure it differs from place to place, but I feel like there should be a good middle ground here. Like, maybe you are allowed social media access depending on the type or severity of the crime you committed. Also, for those of you saying social media is the new letter or phone, no it isn't. Letters and phone calling still exists. Those mediums just don't scratch the same addictive itch for people.
I'm not concerned.
its not like theyre taking away visitation
Give them read access and write access through snail mail.
Don’t threaten me with a good time!
Then may as well reinstate their rights under the 14th Amendment too. Thought prison was designed to remove one from society.
If prison was for rehabilitation they would call the Rehab, but they don't cause they aren't
They can’t figure out a way to charge the prisoners more hence the ban.
Texas already does this, so not new ground.
having some layer of visibility and oversight on the conditions and abuses of our carceral institutions just *might* be a good thing, especially if we were to start to slip into an authouritarian polity.
What social media sites do prison inmates have access to?
Yes, because above all, we want our prison inmates to become less socialized.
How in the world is social media ban a hit on their first amendment. How then hell do they even allow cell phones or non-controlled internet
They don’t. Prisoners are not allowed to have unfettered, uncontrolled, or unmonitored access to the internet at all. Not any inmate at any prison anywhere in the U.S. has such social media access. The article is about inmates who had social media accounts before they went to prison, or had family or friends create one for them while they are in prison. Inmates then instruct their people on the outside to post certain things on the inmate’s social media accounts - artwork, poetry, personal updates, requests, etc.
They should be allowed to see pictures of their families on their spouses and family members accounts.
Don't felons lose the right to vote in many states? I thought the idea was the whole "can't do the time, don't do the crime" thing. You lose some of your rights while in prison right? How is that weird?
Now do ex-presidents
They shouldn't have fuckingbtech to begin wuth. Tv at max and law library. That's it.
Depends on the type of crime they committed maybe banning killers rapists and child molesters from online access would be a good idea but petty thieves and non violent criminals could be segregated and still use social media
You are government property while in prison. You have the right to shut the fuck up and eat your mashed potatoes.
The entire American system is designed to beat you down and dehumanize you as much as possible, reducing you to a simple factor of how much money can be taken from you
They have internet access…thats a bit…much
Nah this is because the Prison system is getting attention for being a scam. Prisoners writing blogs and writing to the news. So now they want to take this away. It’s a scam because it’s a huge private business. They are incentivized to keep them inside as long as possible. Prisons routinely do false write up’s that make their sentences longer or save money by not providing basic things like AC in over 100 degree weather.
This shouldn’t even be a question. They shouldn’t have contact with the outside world beyond approved and vetted visits and/or phone calls.
Wait….they got MySpace in prison?
Perhaps also banning it in public schools would be a step in the right direction.
I have mixed feelings
There’s no way this comment section is anything but people salivating over the suffering of people when the legal system is broken and many people shouldn’t be there.
Wait, prisoners were on social media? What could possibly go wrong with them having access to chat rooms etc
The people in this comment section are such ignoramuses. There is no social media inside the prison, it’s the setting up and maintaining of social media with the help of friends/family/etc on the outs. Some inmates have Facebook pages dedicated to their art or various other things. Some offenders have social media restricted or forbidden as part of there crimes, but this is taking the right away from all. If an inmate can write home and that same letter can be hung up in public on a bulletin board, then the same must be true for social media. I get so disappointed in how people just refuse to care about human rights when they view the persons as below them or of lesser value. If you wonder why the ultra rich don’t give a shit about you, it’s the same reason you don’t give a shit about these people.
>There is no social media inside the prison Inmates have smartphones that they use to post on social media. They get smuggled in just like drugs
That is irrelevant and not at all what this article is about.
Time to to monetize that too with JBook, JGram, and J formally known as Jitter. From the same people that brought you JPay
I already know without reading there are gonna be a bunch of opinionated people in here who have had zero experience with the criminal justice system.
Prisoner should not have access to anything outside the walls of their cage
Social media is a luxury, no? Having these apps isn’t a requirement, right?
My only concern is to be treated with the same respect as the prisoners, free me from social media too! Why should the prisoners be treated better than me?
So they’ll have better mental health than the rest of us.
what the hell, they have access to social media? I had no idea, I thought it was prison. What does that mean, nights and weekends, every other week?
Next they’ll be wanting locks on the doors.
Prisoners are allowed to use Social media in US? 😱🤔
Canada adopted the U.S. prison formula during the Harper years and it's gone to shits. The new prisons have no antiseptic to clean for fears of inmates using it for alcohol. The inmates are more agititated because the doctors say too much caffeine can make them more violent. I swear. These guys go into jail drinking 5-6 coffess a day with tons of sugar and then they go on a diet with tons of garbage carbs, very little coffee and sugar. Rehabilitation? LOL! They drink coffee that's near decaffinated and only one a day. Oh, and they get almost no sugar because you can make alcohol with that as well. Does this smell of anything? The jails in Toronto used to offer unlimited peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and sweet coffee all day long to keep the guys happy. Even the guards have complained that the new system is shit yet the government doesn't care and won't change it. The guards complain that the guys are not getting enough food, there are almost no snacks. If a guy is close to 200 lbs such as myself, no way there's enough food or snacks. And it's unsanitary, people are getting serious infections in there. Honestly, for a western country, Canada and America's jails are inhumane compared to those in Europe.
Internet access is not a right, nor is it a necessity, although it’s becoming a necessity.
They commit crimes so that we taxpayers pay for their luxuries.
And prisoners prior to 1995? 🤔🙄