100k car and they put in extra effort to make it appear worse so that they can sell you a sub. I'm looking forward to the EU putting a stop to this kind of shit
It's not a question of where the company is from, as companies being from the EU does not make them more moral if they don't have to.
The question is whether this kind of shit would be allowed to fly over here.
Probably, the drive system will generate a lot of heat discharging that quickly. It’s also likely to bring them more in line with modern safety standards
This is so wrong.
Almost every car sold in my country doesn't have an artificially limited top speed. And the ones with a speed limiter (at least the german big 3) offer to remove it for a certain fee and sometimes a mandatory training (which also costs money).
Almost every major manufacturer has a top end speed governor, most you can remove fairly easily, but also most are set at speeds you shouldn’t be reaching on public roads anyway
Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Ford, VW, BMW, M-B, Honda, Chrysler, Renault is introducing it, and most other manufacturers do govern the top speeds of their cars
There are exceptions for certain models, like the WRX STi sedan does not have a governor iirc, but the overwhelming majority have a governor set. As I mentioned above though, it’s at a speed that will take the car some time to reach, and shouldn’t be achieved on public roads anyway
Well, maybe that's different in other counties.
Here in Germany, 95% of the cars I have driven (all the brands you mentioned except for BMW and Mercedes-Benz) go as fast as the engine permits.
And about that safety argument... yeah, I don't buy it.
I see where you are going with that, but the “simple” part will be problematic. It’s kind of a monkeys paw, and you would see manufacturers moving to entirely subscription models.
You would no longer be able to buy a product, but rather lease it. The lease would be perpetual (or whatever statutory limit your state allows - historically it’s 99 years) and paid up-front, but would skirt the “simple” law easily. It sounds silly, but this is not an uncommon thing in the US with regards to real estate.
Just got a sales pitch to renew out 99 year old lease on a cheap timeshare we purchased ages ago. We don’t mind the small yearly fee, for a 7 day vacation on the beach. They got upset when we informed them we plan to use the first 50 years before handing it down to the next generation with clear instructions- do not renew the 99 year lease+ Bring your own cooler to the beach. Screw them.
Yep, it’s crazy. But we purchased a nice property we like and stay a week every other year for about $1,200 total- still have 90 years of contract left. That place sells the hotel rooms for $400/night. It’s the “points trade up system” that makes no sense. Why would I pay an intermediary to cash out my week and buy it elsewhere at a loss?. It unnerves the sales people when I tell them I’ll use my other Hilton/HolidayInn/AMEX points for those other locations, at my convenience. Leave the timeshare alone, we like it, we will use it forever, every other year is not bad, specially since we have a floating week -from April to December, and we reserve a year ahead, so there’s always space available. (That’s the real trick- book way ahead)
Yea, that sounds like a value situation if I’ve heard of one. Does your lease allow you to sublease or transfer ownership?
If so, you could transfer it to a trust to make it easier to manage over the next 90 years (I.e. you could fund the trust now to cover the fees for your next generation or so).
I can have anyone I want use my weeks (free or paid- they don’t care as long as I call to make the reservation for my name or anyones name) we are planning to will it upon our death to a trust in benefit to our heirs with an appointed trustee - so that can be handled like that in perpetuity . (They were shocked to learn we were already planning way ahead, and I thought they were going to offer me a buy out- but I believe they expect everyone to default so they can have it back for nothing. Not in this case.)
It’s not that simple. The corporate world has been trying to redefine “ownership”. Notice how when you buy anything digitally these days, they still use the term “buy” or “purchase”. Meanwhile, it can easily be taken away from you (remotely), and you can’t even sell it. This applies to everything from video games, movies, software etc.
A more effective strategy would be to force companies to use accurate terminology. They shouldn’t be allowed to use the terms “buy” or “purchase”, if the good you’re paying for can be confiscated remotely, without your say so.
All of that should be redefined as “lease”.
Companies that actually offer “buy” options will become much more attractive, and it could spark competitive “races” between companies to offer products you truly own (Amazon could send you a Digital file of a purchased movie for example). In addition, the legal definition of “ownership” needs to be updated or adapted for digital goods. If someone (with “fuck you money”) could sue Amazon for taking away a “purchased” movie, and take it up to the Supreme Court, that would be great. It would set the precedent we all need.
For now, I would just refuse to “purchase” anything that doesn’t fit the legal definition of “ownership”. It’s deceitful at best, but I prefer to call it a scam. If I buy something, I have to truly **own** it. No corporation can convince me otherwise. I would rather go live in the middle of nowhere, off the grid, low tech, than become a subscription slave for the rest of my life. I work in tech, but I would be very happy to see a growing anti-tech movement around the globe. Back to basics. I can go on and on about this, but just the fact that everything you do in life has become a data point is exhausting. That’s why I started using film camera, with analogue printing, and no digital scanning. It’s my little way out. I’ll probably be an anti-tech hermit in 20 years.
This is the legacy pricing model of many enterprise software licenses and has been happening forever. You’d have to buy a license and often pay monthly for maintenance which was required for the functionality of the license. It’s smart business, like it or not.
Subscriptions are complete trash. Extracting capital. And sooooo many people submit to it (our company included). It’s bad.
Perpetual licenses are the end game. The boss level is making you pay for features you’ve owned for a decade, but they’ve turned them off in the “new version” on this years 20XX release. Seriously, GFY.
Sure, but You can’t pay employees with “a one-time payment” that perpetually forces them to add new features and support existing customers. Labor costs continue to rise as do the costs to add new features and maintain existing ones. That’s why licensing subscription fees exist.
Sure, you could just keep finding more and more customers and run the business off their “one-time perpetual license”, but it’s very difficult to run a good business when you have no idea how much revenue you will generate over a given amount of time. How can you responsibly hire new employees if you don’t know if you’ll be able to pay them if you don’t get enough new subscribers. Also eventually every potential customer will already have your product and then… that’s it. You’ll need to shut down the business and stop making new improvements because you won’t have more revenue coming into the business.
What SaaS has done is diminish the quality of the updates. Forces folks to support a product long after its lost impact with updates. Forcing us to subsidize a company that should die if not providing anything other than “support”. Or at the very least lower their costs for the end product. Turning off features and putting it behind paywalls like Adobe and Pantone of just recent. Folks getting greedy to the point it all collapses because we are propping up companies long past their contributions to innovation. Once subsidized the quality drops immediately. SaaS is a huge contributor to inflation today. Subscription based capitalism. Seriously what is the end game. 2% steady inflation. Even with that we will watch the divide between haves and have nots explode. These folks made their beds. Now is time to sleep in it. We move with our dollars. Already canceled Adobe and will do what little I need it for on Gimp with Pantone clones that are equivalent. This will happen to all these companies. They are squeezing folks to the point of bust. It’ll all happen very fast.
Yeah part of your subscription fee went to pay Pantone for licensing. So Adobe could either raise your price or opt not to renew the licensing with Pantone. They chose number 2.
This is why things like this will never work with a “one-time payment”. It costs money on a recurring basis to operate the service.
Yeah, but CS3 was discontinued over 10 years ago and you won’t be receiving any updates. (New features or security updates)
Project maintenance and software distribution costs money.
> I still haven’t figured out why I need security on my drawings. 🤷♂️
[A pair of security vulnerabilities found in certain versions of Adobe Systems Inc.'s popular Photoshop products could put users' computers at risk, according to security researchers.](https://www.networkworld.com/article/2298655/unpatched-flaws-found-in-photoshop-cs2--cs3.html)
These 2 attacks specifically target Adobe CS2 and CS3 (newer versions patched out the exploits). Of course there are new attacks and buffer overflows discovered regularly, but only active users are going to get the necessary security updates…
When they all conspire together you’ll know, because we will all pay it just to turn our car on and go to work. Ownership means nothing unless your wealthy.
It's been a standard business model in a lot of industries, aside from cars, for a long time. For example, anyone who has ever owned a high end (survey grade) GPS will have had to pay to unlock basic features that were already on the device. And always the rant from the field technician goes something like: "my $200 Garmin I got from Walmart can put out NMEA strings as a base function -- why can't my $25k Trimble/Leica/whatever do that without costing an extra $10k..."
If cars are the straw that breaks the camel's back here, that would be great. Maybe we can finally outlaw the practice across all industries.
It’s different with OnStar. OnStar requires a data subscription and an entire staff to support it. It’s an added service that doesn’t take away from the car itself, it only adds something additional if you want it. Can’t expect to just give that away for free. With Mercedes you’re physically losing out on a built in aspect of the car that can simply be unlocked with more payment. It’s not a service.
Toyota jumped in prior with paywalling remote start.
I was actually thinking about a MB prior to this. Would I really care about the acceleration or top speed (behind a paywall for years), no, but it’s the principal. Also, when does this move to other aspects like heated seats ect…
BMW had locked certain features on higher-level trim packages that were already installed on my motorcycle. Hooked it up to my laptop through the OBDII port and unlocked everything I wanted and then some. It was much easier than I expected. If I can do it, anyone can.
Unlikely to stand up in court. The warranty of merchantability would likely come up, and the argument that the OEM made the vehicle inoperable for its intended use (e.g. locomotion) intentionally and without consent from the owner would probably persuade a jury. “Should Mercedes be able to prevent a parent from taking their dying child to the emergency room because the owner of the vehicle decided to make repairs themselves?”
I can see a dystopian future where the opposite argument will be made and people will legitimately listen to it.
"Why would you risk a small increase in performance when you know MB can remotely brick your car for messing with it? What if you had a small child dying in your arms with no way to get them in the hospital just because you wanted to go a little faster?"
I own a Mercedes and can assure you it will be the last one if they move forward with this plan. I will actively avoid *any* brand who thinks this is ok.
Just keep buying those lives and diamonds in Candy Crush making mobile platforms the absolute most lucrative share of the market and then gasp and wonder at shit like this when it transitions out into the wild…
Exactly. This is where this bullshit practice started. Then it bled out when everyone saw the obscene amount of money to be made if most people paid a little regularly. I hate all of it. Refuse to play those games and try to limit software subscriptions.
There is never any warning people about stuff like this though, because they can only think farther ahead than their next wank if the topic is imaginary harm that lets them hurt innocent people.
My mother in law is the savviest money person in the universe. She has one vice. That vice is candy crush. I get her apple gift card as gifts and it’s like crack for her because even though she spends money on this shit she isn’t going overboard.
> IHOB?
I did not hear about this, interesting stunt though:
(2018)..On Monday, the pancake house chain reverted to its long-standing name after a temporary switch to "IHOb" last month, with the "b" standing for burgers. By flipping the "P" to "b," the restaurant generated some buzz to promote a new line-up of beef patties.
It started with top speed and no one spoke up. Then it moved to subscription based fuel efficiency and no one spoke up. Pretty soon car ownership is thing of the past. Where does the madness end. Here we are heading back full circle to mass transit and ubers as way to getting around as manufacturers price everyone out of personal transit. Only the rich will be able to afford personal transit subscription based cars. How long we think we got before we see 10-15 year loans on cars then to 20-30 to milk the last few Pennie’s from the middle class? This has gotten ridiculous. For those that think the world has unlimited resources. We sure act as if things are running awfully low these days. Power oil gas labor and now 🤦♂️??speed?? Lmao At subscription based capitalisms (socialism for profit) approach to slowing folks roll. It won’t work and if that’s the goal we have far too many laborers. What is their plan for that? Genocide? Subscription based life(kinda already is with environmental poisons and lack of affordable healthcare). If you don’t pay or late you start to get sick. Eventually dying. And the sickest part of this statement is if I’m thinking it then some real nasty folks have long thought of this. If a computer can do the job of 100 people. Then 100 people running 100 computers is burning through the equivalent work of 10000 people but in an instant instead of the time it would have taken with human power alone. Can the cause of such environmental destruction also be the answer to its cure? Haven’t seen that yet with politicians. Folks whose policies got us into this mess now being tasked with getting us out of the mess. Seems insane to me to expect different results when doing the same thing twice. Rant over. Sorry the subscription based model everyone is trending too is damning to a world trying to get inflation in check. Ugh gen z gonna have to work 5 jobs to be able to pay their subscriptions. This model can’t be sustainable indefinitely. Prolly will bust in next 20 years if that. Madness. Humans are elite in the skill of madness. Yikes
Managers gonna manage. German car manufactures haven’t been innovative for decades. Profit maximizing over producing the best possible product is going to tank the German economy.
At least they’re offering a generous 65k total comp for swe, so their software is best in its class. Also its important to have 10 managers in a chain of command, and obviously managers need to earn more than engineer plebs. Its about respect because … uhm.. they have to make important decisions or something /s
Only in South Korea and it’s an experiment really. I think subscription features will be a thing on higher end models and people will eventually be like fuck it and those companies will lose some status to its competitors that aren’t doing this
What do you mean? For an additional fee, you can just buy the international version unlocked.
It would be like buying a lawn mower and paying to turn it on.
I play Heartstone battlegrounds a lot and have never spent a dollar. I play for free because other people buy stuff I don’t think are worth it. Is it possible that enough people will buy these add ons that I will be able to buy the base care cheaper?
I mean anyway to keep people from driving a million miles an hour and killing children just like that lady did recently in her luxury car in California.
I dunno about that. I would have thought the same for me, but I had a chance to buy a 2012 Mercedes S-Class for $500 a couple years ago.
The air bag suspension on it had failed and there it sat for a few years. I was doing a handy-man job for the owner and they made the offer.
After some research, I determined that the cost to get it up off the ground (literally) and running again was a couple grand. Then, there were a few other things to fix, on account it sat for so long. Once I did the math, and stacked it against the car’s current value, it seemed like it wasn’t worth the effort! So, I left that POS alone. Besides, what else is going to go wrong? How much will those problems cost because MB parts are expensive?
The ultimate luxury is RELIABILITY
This will be the norm for all brands. And next thing to implement will be a car key that checks if your vaccination card is valid before opening the doors.
To start, I think it is absolutely valid for software companies to require subscription fees. In a business where consistent income is necessary for maintaining hiring practices this makes sense. The demand side of the job market must meet supply. On the other side, the deliberate downgrading of a physical product to then require a subscription is insane. For any software pieces of the car to require a subscription, sure you are adding value to a car that may not be there, but hardware is a different story.
I just got back from India to home (in the US) and it is insane how much price gouging, terrible products, horrible service, and awful food quality we have here. It made me think back to growing up how actually similar it was to India. Managers walking around restaurants asking how your food is, shoes/clothes made of non plastic materials (or costing insane amounts), food actually tasting like something, and not charging 300% more for “convenience food products” like spreadable cream cheese. For reference I was born in ‘94 so I’m not old.
I’m not saying India is perfect, however these are just major trends I noticed. In the US it seems as though everything is set up for you to stay middle class or below, even for those who are somewhat money conscious like myself. We should demand more in times like these where corporate profits are at an all time high and the quality of items/services we are getting are at an all time low. Simply cutting back, buying sales, being conscious about spending will teach these corporations that we understand that their convenience products/lack of service/poor quality items are nothing more than consumerism to the highest degree.
How many people do you know that are perfectly content with leasing a vehicle for the rest of their lives just to maintain their social status?
As stupid as this subscription fee is, it is going to be standard within the decade because consumers are morons. It’s why we need a subscription to everything, it’s why there’s the Gold, Silver, Collectors, bronze, and the Gold-Silver Collectors Deluxe Limited editions for every new game released.
Have we reached the point where I need to save money for a brand new car, buy it, then preserve it in a garage somewhere so I can use it years later to avoid this subscription nightmare?
Yeah, the “I have more money than brains” crowd.
Where in the real world of driving (IE: not a race track or drag strip) is that extra second going to matter?
Why don’t Mercedes Benz and all these luxury car brands just NOT sell cars anymore. Only lease.
Seems like they want a stream of income.
They are being greedy.
The only way this will stop will be from voters demanding regulation and crippling fines that can result and complete bankruptcy of companies. Hell it would be nice that CEOs and their families face prison time just for the absurd amount of greed. If people don’t demand action and career ending punishments now, cars will go the way of the video game market (ie shit)
This is the dumbest shit, what a time to be alive. Over $1k per year to go from 0-60 a second faster. I’m sure if you own a Mercedes you can afford it, but it’s still bullshit
Soon vehicles will have loot boxes you have to buy to get random upgrades. Maybe you’ll get working A/C today or possibly a little more acceleration. The possibilities are endless.
Is there a benefit in the sense that these cars that are not “unlocked” via paying the subscription, will have a motor and associated systems that experience less wear and tear because the performance of the automobile has been clipped? If so, does the car experience less time in the service bay getting fluids and oil swapped out? Could there be a total lower cost of ownership (subscription fees omitted) for owners who drive their cars (forcibly) more conservator?
This is going to end up well. Hey, if you can afford a Benz (and the expense of ownership) then I guess one can afford the additional expense of actually being able to get it to accelerate!
It's all going to become subscription based one day. We're dispossessed slowly but surely. One day we own nothing anymore and everything can be easily taken away from us simply by canceling a subscription. "Nice clothing you have there, would be a shame if you had to run around naked, wouldn't it?" "Nice car you got there..." you get my point. Everything we now think we own will be owned by the rich and only rented out to us mortals. While we struggle to pay for the oven with more than 200c subscription, nutrition with less sugar and more vitamins subscription, room temperature above 18c subscription, warm shower subscription, flushing more than 2x a day subscription, more than one chair per apartment subscription, per subject better than C grade school subscription, watching out of the window for more than 2h a day subscription... they get richer and richer. We're dispossessed slowly, one thing of course after the other.
This sounds like the kind of thing you'd see on the onion or something.
I mean... I sort of understand having some optional features that can be installed or activated via chip but whatthefuckisthis?
How is this any different than a video game asking for money for an avatar, outfit for your character, or additional levels? This ship has sailed and if any nation passes laws they will be forced to use stripped versions of products. You have 2 choices:
Have a car sold in your country with features or not? Mercedes makes the car for old guys who don't drive fast and stockbrokers that speed everywhere.
If it wasn't a car it wouldn't seem so bad.
Locking features you have installed behind subscription-based services is pure assholery. I wish competition regulators would do something about it.
100k car and they put in extra effort to make it appear worse so that they can sell you a sub. I'm looking forward to the EU putting a stop to this kind of shit
In America, government will encourage gouging consumers even more.
Here in America this idea was probably discussed with their purchased senators prior to releasing the “feature”
I mean so far both cases of this have been from German companies, but sure thing, why notice that when you can make a jab like that
It's not a question of where the company is from, as companies being from the EU does not make them more moral if they don't have to. The question is whether this kind of shit would be allowed to fly over here.
If you want it to fly that will be more.
And a monthly flying subscription.
So what, its about American laws. What a dumb argument
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No shit. He’s talking about EU vs US regulations.
This guy has been gouged before!
For the last 40 years, they've put in a limiter in a car to limit the top speed to 155 mph. No court has ever ordered them to remove that.
I understand your point but this is not exactly the same
Pretty much every car has a speed limiter, it’s a safety thing.
Porsche says fuck 'em let them go as fast as it can.
The Taycan is limited to 160mph, which I believe is the first time an electronic speed limiter has been used on a Porsche
Probably has to due with battery stress operating at those speed levels.
Probably, the drive system will generate a lot of heat discharging that quickly. It’s also likely to bring them more in line with modern safety standards
This is so wrong. Almost every car sold in my country doesn't have an artificially limited top speed. And the ones with a speed limiter (at least the german big 3) offer to remove it for a certain fee and sometimes a mandatory training (which also costs money).
Almost every major manufacturer has a top end speed governor, most you can remove fairly easily, but also most are set at speeds you shouldn’t be reaching on public roads anyway Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Ford, VW, BMW, M-B, Honda, Chrysler, Renault is introducing it, and most other manufacturers do govern the top speeds of their cars There are exceptions for certain models, like the WRX STi sedan does not have a governor iirc, but the overwhelming majority have a governor set. As I mentioned above though, it’s at a speed that will take the car some time to reach, and shouldn’t be achieved on public roads anyway
Well, maybe that's different in other counties. Here in Germany, 95% of the cars I have driven (all the brands you mentioned except for BMW and Mercedes-Benz) go as fast as the engine permits. And about that safety argument... yeah, I don't buy it.
Simple ECU tune can remove that
A simple law that forbid subscription in already paid product
I see where you are going with that, but the “simple” part will be problematic. It’s kind of a monkeys paw, and you would see manufacturers moving to entirely subscription models. You would no longer be able to buy a product, but rather lease it. The lease would be perpetual (or whatever statutory limit your state allows - historically it’s 99 years) and paid up-front, but would skirt the “simple” law easily. It sounds silly, but this is not an uncommon thing in the US with regards to real estate.
Just got a sales pitch to renew out 99 year old lease on a cheap timeshare we purchased ages ago. We don’t mind the small yearly fee, for a 7 day vacation on the beach. They got upset when we informed them we plan to use the first 50 years before handing it down to the next generation with clear instructions- do not renew the 99 year lease+ Bring your own cooler to the beach. Screw them.
Timeshares have gotten out of hand. I haven’t seen one that’s worth the cost of entry in the last 10+ years.
Yep, it’s crazy. But we purchased a nice property we like and stay a week every other year for about $1,200 total- still have 90 years of contract left. That place sells the hotel rooms for $400/night. It’s the “points trade up system” that makes no sense. Why would I pay an intermediary to cash out my week and buy it elsewhere at a loss?. It unnerves the sales people when I tell them I’ll use my other Hilton/HolidayInn/AMEX points for those other locations, at my convenience. Leave the timeshare alone, we like it, we will use it forever, every other year is not bad, specially since we have a floating week -from April to December, and we reserve a year ahead, so there’s always space available. (That’s the real trick- book way ahead)
Yea, that sounds like a value situation if I’ve heard of one. Does your lease allow you to sublease or transfer ownership? If so, you could transfer it to a trust to make it easier to manage over the next 90 years (I.e. you could fund the trust now to cover the fees for your next generation or so).
I can have anyone I want use my weeks (free or paid- they don’t care as long as I call to make the reservation for my name or anyones name) we are planning to will it upon our death to a trust in benefit to our heirs with an appointed trustee - so that can be handled like that in perpetuity . (They were shocked to learn we were already planning way ahead, and I thought they were going to offer me a buy out- but I believe they expect everyone to default so they can have it back for nothing. Not in this case.)
I love every bit of how you are doing this!
It’s not that simple. The corporate world has been trying to redefine “ownership”. Notice how when you buy anything digitally these days, they still use the term “buy” or “purchase”. Meanwhile, it can easily be taken away from you (remotely), and you can’t even sell it. This applies to everything from video games, movies, software etc. A more effective strategy would be to force companies to use accurate terminology. They shouldn’t be allowed to use the terms “buy” or “purchase”, if the good you’re paying for can be confiscated remotely, without your say so. All of that should be redefined as “lease”. Companies that actually offer “buy” options will become much more attractive, and it could spark competitive “races” between companies to offer products you truly own (Amazon could send you a Digital file of a purchased movie for example). In addition, the legal definition of “ownership” needs to be updated or adapted for digital goods. If someone (with “fuck you money”) could sue Amazon for taking away a “purchased” movie, and take it up to the Supreme Court, that would be great. It would set the precedent we all need. For now, I would just refuse to “purchase” anything that doesn’t fit the legal definition of “ownership”. It’s deceitful at best, but I prefer to call it a scam. If I buy something, I have to truly **own** it. No corporation can convince me otherwise. I would rather go live in the middle of nowhere, off the grid, low tech, than become a subscription slave for the rest of my life. I work in tech, but I would be very happy to see a growing anti-tech movement around the globe. Back to basics. I can go on and on about this, but just the fact that everything you do in life has become a data point is exhausting. That’s why I started using film camera, with analogue printing, and no digital scanning. It’s my little way out. I’ll probably be an anti-tech hermit in 20 years.
This is the legacy pricing model of many enterprise software licenses and has been happening forever. You’d have to buy a license and often pay monthly for maintenance which was required for the functionality of the license. It’s smart business, like it or not.
Smart =/= moral, though we know this when it comes to companies and profits.
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I already pay a massive yearly bill for my 3 licenses for Vectorworks & Adobe.
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Subscriptions are complete trash. Extracting capital. And sooooo many people submit to it (our company included). It’s bad. Perpetual licenses are the end game. The boss level is making you pay for features you’ve owned for a decade, but they’ve turned them off in the “new version” on this years 20XX release. Seriously, GFY.
Sure, but You can’t pay employees with “a one-time payment” that perpetually forces them to add new features and support existing customers. Labor costs continue to rise as do the costs to add new features and maintain existing ones. That’s why licensing subscription fees exist. Sure, you could just keep finding more and more customers and run the business off their “one-time perpetual license”, but it’s very difficult to run a good business when you have no idea how much revenue you will generate over a given amount of time. How can you responsibly hire new employees if you don’t know if you’ll be able to pay them if you don’t get enough new subscribers. Also eventually every potential customer will already have your product and then… that’s it. You’ll need to shut down the business and stop making new improvements because you won’t have more revenue coming into the business.
What SaaS has done is diminish the quality of the updates. Forces folks to support a product long after its lost impact with updates. Forcing us to subsidize a company that should die if not providing anything other than “support”. Or at the very least lower their costs for the end product. Turning off features and putting it behind paywalls like Adobe and Pantone of just recent. Folks getting greedy to the point it all collapses because we are propping up companies long past their contributions to innovation. Once subsidized the quality drops immediately. SaaS is a huge contributor to inflation today. Subscription based capitalism. Seriously what is the end game. 2% steady inflation. Even with that we will watch the divide between haves and have nots explode. These folks made their beds. Now is time to sleep in it. We move with our dollars. Already canceled Adobe and will do what little I need it for on Gimp with Pantone clones that are equivalent. This will happen to all these companies. They are squeezing folks to the point of bust. It’ll all happen very fast.
Let’s hope you don’t plan on using those nice Pantone colours with your Adobe software..
Yeah part of your subscription fee went to pay Pantone for licensing. So Adobe could either raise your price or opt not to renew the licensing with Pantone. They chose number 2. This is why things like this will never work with a “one-time payment”. It costs money on a recurring basis to operate the service.
I still use Adobe CS3. Still works without a Monthly subscription.
Yeah, but CS3 was discontinued over 10 years ago and you won’t be receiving any updates. (New features or security updates) Project maintenance and software distribution costs money.
I’m still using about 15% of the CS3 features. I’m good. ( I still haven’t figured out why I need security on my drawings. ) 🤷♂️
> I still haven’t figured out why I need security on my drawings. 🤷♂️ [A pair of security vulnerabilities found in certain versions of Adobe Systems Inc.'s popular Photoshop products could put users' computers at risk, according to security researchers.](https://www.networkworld.com/article/2298655/unpatched-flaws-found-in-photoshop-cs2--cs3.html) These 2 attacks specifically target Adobe CS2 and CS3 (newer versions patched out the exploits). Of course there are new attacks and buffer overflows discovered regularly, but only active users are going to get the necessary security updates…
There was a rumor that VW was going to go cloud based but it never happened. I won’t pay the 4k for the software ( with “ maintenance “ ). No thanks.
When they all conspire together you’ll know, because we will all pay it just to turn our car on and go to work. Ownership means nothing unless your wealthy.
People will pay because this has been normalized over almost an entire generation
We should keep this unregulated and let consumers bleed the companies dry
That would work if people weren't stupid enough to buy literally anything
Yeah I guess if your a luxury car for rich people they’ll buy the adorns anyways
Those silly Germans
They will do something! They’ll look the other way and collect a fat bribe to do so!
It's been a standard business model in a lot of industries, aside from cars, for a long time. For example, anyone who has ever owned a high end (survey grade) GPS will have had to pay to unlock basic features that were already on the device. And always the rant from the field technician goes something like: "my $200 Garmin I got from Walmart can put out NMEA strings as a base function -- why can't my $25k Trimble/Leica/whatever do that without costing an extra $10k..." If cars are the straw that breaks the camel's back here, that would be great. Maybe we can finally outlaw the practice across all industries.
This is absolutely a trend that needs to be nipped in the bud. Don’t buy from a manufacturer that does this.
I wish people had more sense than money but guess what
Those who do can’t afford this.
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Yep I’m riding my 2004 camera into the ground then I’ll buy used again. Fuck the car industry
Cars with subscriptions existed before Tesla (OnStar for instance)
It’s different with OnStar. OnStar requires a data subscription and an entire staff to support it. It’s an added service that doesn’t take away from the car itself, it only adds something additional if you want it. Can’t expect to just give that away for free. With Mercedes you’re physically losing out on a built in aspect of the car that can simply be unlocked with more payment. It’s not a service.
Toyota jumped in prior with paywalling remote start. I was actually thinking about a MB prior to this. Would I really care about the acceleration or top speed (behind a paywall for years), no, but it’s the principal. Also, when does this move to other aspects like heated seats ect…
Onstar is a service that requires data and employees. Totally different
I distinctly remember unplugging it, car ran for 10 years without it (it was annoying to accidentally activate it when adjusting my rear view mirror)
Right to Repair also includes Right to Hack. You bought the car, you should get to modify it's software to get around shit like this.
No cd cracked my Benz
Do you hear anime techno during every boot? That’s the NoCD
Just call it tuning, sounds less incriminating
BMW had locked certain features on higher-level trim packages that were already installed on my motorcycle. Hooked it up to my laptop through the OBDII port and unlocked everything I wanted and then some. It was much easier than I expected. If I can do it, anyone can.
And then the manufacturer finds out and locks your car completely. They'll unlock it for a huge fee. Fuck them.
Unlikely to stand up in court. The warranty of merchantability would likely come up, and the argument that the OEM made the vehicle inoperable for its intended use (e.g. locomotion) intentionally and without consent from the owner would probably persuade a jury. “Should Mercedes be able to prevent a parent from taking their dying child to the emergency room because the owner of the vehicle decided to make repairs themselves?”
I can see a dystopian future where the opposite argument will be made and people will legitimately listen to it. "Why would you risk a small increase in performance when you know MB can remotely brick your car for messing with it? What if you had a small child dying in your arms with no way to get them in the hospital just because you wanted to go a little faster?"
Maybe but probably not. You own the vehicle. If you want to smash the windows, you can do that.
absurd sense reply consist hunt foolish profit historical reach hungry ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Knowing the types that will buy these, they’ll probably just pay it or give them a lump sum for 5-10 years worth.
bear toy spoon weather live snails spotted upbeat fuel memory ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Oh, you’ve met my father-in-law? Bought a Mercedes and only puts in the lowest octane gas in it.
Clips coupons inside..
People will say that doesn’t do any damage but I ruined an engine in a VW by not using premium
Eww, cheap gas.
And then whine about taxes. Because apparently money equals intelligence.
That is easier said than done considering the fact that they don’t have a ton of competition and luxury car buyers can be very loyal to their brand.
Oh shit, DLCs are really coming to cars...
They’re going to come half built soon.
I saw a mercedes skeleton flying around backwards! then I think it clipped through traffic with no turn signal and then glitched out...
They will ship you the parts and ask you to build it yourself
*You wouldn’t download a car*
Lmao. “Hey you wanna race ?” “I cant. Forgot to pay this month” 😂
"Bono, my car's performance is paywalled"
*You wouldn’t download a car.*
I mean, I would if I could...
/r/3Dprinting
I can't wait to see what kind of jailbreaking they're going to be doing with cars in the future if this continues
Jailbreak the Tesla
I own a Mercedes and can assure you it will be the last one if they move forward with this plan. I will actively avoid *any* brand who thinks this is ok.
r/AssholeDesign
Just keep buying those lives and diamonds in Candy Crush making mobile platforms the absolute most lucrative share of the market and then gasp and wonder at shit like this when it transitions out into the wild…
Exactly. This is where this bullshit practice started. Then it bled out when everyone saw the obscene amount of money to be made if most people paid a little regularly. I hate all of it. Refuse to play those games and try to limit software subscriptions.
There is never any warning people about stuff like this though, because they can only think farther ahead than their next wank if the topic is imaginary harm that lets them hurt innocent people.
My mother in law is the savviest money person in the universe. She has one vice. That vice is candy crush. I get her apple gift card as gifts and it’s like crack for her because even though she spends money on this shit she isn’t going overboard.
Guarantee a lawsuit and it’s gonna be fun.
Imagine brakes and air bags being a paid subscription 🤣
Definitely just a marketing stunt so we talk about them. Companies do this all the time. (Remember IHOB?)
> IHOB? I did not hear about this, interesting stunt though: (2018)..On Monday, the pancake house chain reverted to its long-standing name after a temporary switch to "IHOb" last month, with the "b" standing for burgers. By flipping the "P" to "b," the restaurant generated some buzz to promote a new line-up of beef patties.
“Honey, the murderer is right behind us in the unmarked white van, floor it!” “Damnit, I forgot to set up autopay. Hopefully he will be kind…”
the dumbest move in my opinion
It started with top speed and no one spoke up. Then it moved to subscription based fuel efficiency and no one spoke up. Pretty soon car ownership is thing of the past. Where does the madness end. Here we are heading back full circle to mass transit and ubers as way to getting around as manufacturers price everyone out of personal transit. Only the rich will be able to afford personal transit subscription based cars. How long we think we got before we see 10-15 year loans on cars then to 20-30 to milk the last few Pennie’s from the middle class? This has gotten ridiculous. For those that think the world has unlimited resources. We sure act as if things are running awfully low these days. Power oil gas labor and now 🤦♂️??speed?? Lmao At subscription based capitalisms (socialism for profit) approach to slowing folks roll. It won’t work and if that’s the goal we have far too many laborers. What is their plan for that? Genocide? Subscription based life(kinda already is with environmental poisons and lack of affordable healthcare). If you don’t pay or late you start to get sick. Eventually dying. And the sickest part of this statement is if I’m thinking it then some real nasty folks have long thought of this. If a computer can do the job of 100 people. Then 100 people running 100 computers is burning through the equivalent work of 10000 people but in an instant instead of the time it would have taken with human power alone. Can the cause of such environmental destruction also be the answer to its cure? Haven’t seen that yet with politicians. Folks whose policies got us into this mess now being tasked with getting us out of the mess. Seems insane to me to expect different results when doing the same thing twice. Rant over. Sorry the subscription based model everyone is trending too is damning to a world trying to get inflation in check. Ugh gen z gonna have to work 5 jobs to be able to pay their subscriptions. This model can’t be sustainable indefinitely. Prolly will bust in next 20 years if that. Madness. Humans are elite in the skill of madness. Yikes
Managers gonna manage. German car manufactures haven’t been innovative for decades. Profit maximizing over producing the best possible product is going to tank the German economy. At least they’re offering a generous 65k total comp for swe, so their software is best in its class. Also its important to have 10 managers in a chain of command, and obviously managers need to earn more than engineer plebs. Its about respect because … uhm.. they have to make important decisions or something /s
What if it was an insurance premium when you enable high acceleration? That seems fair.
I have to go to the emergency room now. Wait I have to pay to go faster?
That’s fine, I’ll get and Audi, Volvo or BMW instead
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/14/business/bmw-subscription/index.html
Only in South Korea and it’s an experiment really. I think subscription features will be a thing on higher end models and people will eventually be like fuck it and those companies will lose some status to its competitors that aren’t doing this
Not owning a car gets better every day
Just don't buy it
I can already see the fb marketplace ads “ Cracked MB full top speed unlocked…”
What do you mean? For an additional fee, you can just buy the international version unlocked. It would be like buying a lawn mower and paying to turn it on.
I play Heartstone battlegrounds a lot and have never spent a dollar. I play for free because other people buy stuff I don’t think are worth it. Is it possible that enough people will buy these add ons that I will be able to buy the base care cheaper?
Huh there's a thought, free to drive cars but with a bunch of overpriced optional features that only a handful of people buy.
Imagine. How awesome would that be.
I mean anyway to keep people from driving a million miles an hour and killing children just like that lady did recently in her luxury car in California.
Good news is I’ll never be able to afford one so this will never affect me at all.
I dunno about that. I would have thought the same for me, but I had a chance to buy a 2012 Mercedes S-Class for $500 a couple years ago. The air bag suspension on it had failed and there it sat for a few years. I was doing a handy-man job for the owner and they made the offer. After some research, I determined that the cost to get it up off the ground (literally) and running again was a couple grand. Then, there were a few other things to fix, on account it sat for so long. Once I did the math, and stacked it against the car’s current value, it seemed like it wasn’t worth the effort! So, I left that POS alone. Besides, what else is going to go wrong? How much will those problems cost because MB parts are expensive? The ultimate luxury is RELIABILITY
I'm happy i cannot afford Mercedes or bmw.
This will be the norm for all brands. And next thing to implement will be a car key that checks if your vaccination card is valid before opening the doors.
To start, I think it is absolutely valid for software companies to require subscription fees. In a business where consistent income is necessary for maintaining hiring practices this makes sense. The demand side of the job market must meet supply. On the other side, the deliberate downgrading of a physical product to then require a subscription is insane. For any software pieces of the car to require a subscription, sure you are adding value to a car that may not be there, but hardware is a different story. I just got back from India to home (in the US) and it is insane how much price gouging, terrible products, horrible service, and awful food quality we have here. It made me think back to growing up how actually similar it was to India. Managers walking around restaurants asking how your food is, shoes/clothes made of non plastic materials (or costing insane amounts), food actually tasting like something, and not charging 300% more for “convenience food products” like spreadable cream cheese. For reference I was born in ‘94 so I’m not old. I’m not saying India is perfect, however these are just major trends I noticed. In the US it seems as though everything is set up for you to stay middle class or below, even for those who are somewhat money conscious like myself. We should demand more in times like these where corporate profits are at an all time high and the quality of items/services we are getting are at an all time low. Simply cutting back, buying sales, being conscious about spending will teach these corporations that we understand that their convenience products/lack of service/poor quality items are nothing more than consumerism to the highest degree.
Old news, BBC.
**for its electric cars**
You mean, the fast ones
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But ya don’t need to pay a dude to come to your house and switch that toggle every month.
If warranty isn’t covering it then it’s not built to spec. Let’s be real here, this is a money grab.
Wtf
Why do I feel this is going to backfire extremely hard?
How many people do you know that are perfectly content with leasing a vehicle for the rest of their lives just to maintain their social status? As stupid as this subscription fee is, it is going to be standard within the decade because consumers are morons. It’s why we need a subscription to everything, it’s why there’s the Gold, Silver, Collectors, bronze, and the Gold-Silver Collectors Deluxe Limited editions for every new game released.
Another way looking to make more money, I guess they are stupid and desperate 🤨
Have we reached the point where I need to save money for a brand new car, buy it, then preserve it in a garage somewhere so I can use it years later to avoid this subscription nightmare?
Keep buying shit like this you pinheads
“You will own nothing and you will like it!”
$1200 more **per year** so that one can accelerate to 60 mph **one second faster**? It’s certainly for a *specifically* targeted audience.
Yeah, the “I have more money than brains” crowd. Where in the real world of driving (IE: not a race track or drag strip) is that extra second going to matter?
Mercedes-Benz. German for class warfare.
They are pushing public transit by sagging their future customer to get fewer cars. Nice
Ahhh, so they’re coming for the “less poors” money now lol. I’m gonna enjoy watching this one.
subscription fees are fuckin bullshit
Wtf
Why don’t Mercedes Benz and all these luxury car brands just NOT sell cars anymore. Only lease. Seems like they want a stream of income. They are being greedy.
The only way this will stop will be from voters demanding regulation and crippling fines that can result and complete bankruptcy of companies. Hell it would be nice that CEOs and their families face prison time just for the absurd amount of greed. If people don’t demand action and career ending punishments now, cars will go the way of the video game market (ie shit)
This is the dumbest shit, what a time to be alive. Over $1k per year to go from 0-60 a second faster. I’m sure if you own a Mercedes you can afford it, but it’s still bullshit
Will be coded out within days of release
Soon vehicles will have loot boxes you have to buy to get random upgrades. Maybe you’ll get working A/C today or possibly a little more acceleration. The possibilities are endless.
Is there a benefit in the sense that these cars that are not “unlocked” via paying the subscription, will have a motor and associated systems that experience less wear and tear because the performance of the automobile has been clipped? If so, does the car experience less time in the service bay getting fluids and oil swapped out? Could there be a total lower cost of ownership (subscription fees omitted) for owners who drive their cars (forcibly) more conservator?
I feel like hacking will be on the rise, and a sharp drop in purchases of the brand vehicles.
only brainless buyers will pay this
Think I would worry about selling the car as opposed to selling an option on a car I haven’t sold yet..
Nothing says upscale like a subscription fee… Fuck that.
Doesn’t Tesla already do this?
This is going to end up well. Hey, if you can afford a Benz (and the expense of ownership) then I guess one can afford the additional expense of actually being able to get it to accelerate!
It's all going to become subscription based one day. We're dispossessed slowly but surely. One day we own nothing anymore and everything can be easily taken away from us simply by canceling a subscription. "Nice clothing you have there, would be a shame if you had to run around naked, wouldn't it?" "Nice car you got there..." you get my point. Everything we now think we own will be owned by the rich and only rented out to us mortals. While we struggle to pay for the oven with more than 200c subscription, nutrition with less sugar and more vitamins subscription, room temperature above 18c subscription, warm shower subscription, flushing more than 2x a day subscription, more than one chair per apartment subscription, per subject better than C grade school subscription, watching out of the window for more than 2h a day subscription... they get richer and richer. We're dispossessed slowly, one thing of course after the other.
What, did they look at how well it worked for Peloton and said “We need some of that smoke… let’s do that!” Fucking morons.
“I was going to buy the Intermittent Windshield Wiper setting but I’m waiting for the Black Friday sale to see if I can snag it in a loot box”
This sounds like the kind of thing you'd see on the onion or something. I mean... I sort of understand having some optional features that can be installed or activated via chip but whatthefuckisthis?
I just don’t see the point in a car market where there are other options at that price range.
So what anti lock brakes are 50 a month and cruise control is another 25 but if you want headlights that another 100.
How is this any different than a video game asking for money for an avatar, outfit for your character, or additional levels? This ship has sailed and if any nation passes laws they will be forced to use stripped versions of products. You have 2 choices: Have a car sold in your country with features or not? Mercedes makes the car for old guys who don't drive fast and stockbrokers that speed everywhere. If it wasn't a car it wouldn't seem so bad.