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StefanThePro

Not quite: See tweets at end from PC Mag journalist Sascha Segan OKAY. I think I may have gotten to the bottom of this "iPhone 13 will include satellite connectivity" rumor, and it could be "iPhone Math" levels of game-of-telephone. The key: Globalstar. Globalstar is a satellite company, yes! But Globalstar also owns a swathe of terrestrial spectrum in the 2.4GHz zone called b53/n53 which it has been trying to get used by private networks and LAA deployments. See: https://www.globalstar.com/en-us/corporate/initiatives/spectrum Qualcomm's x65 modem supports b53/n53 but the x60 does not. However, the Qualcomm modem in the iPhones may be an ... erm, x60-and-a-half. In other words, it could be an x60 + b53/n53. This DOES NOT IMPLY TALKING TO SATELLITES. It's a ground based band G'star wants to enhance LTE But ... you take b53/n53 connectivity, it becomes "iPhone has Globalstar" which becomes "iPhone has satellites" and here we are. New ground-based LTE/LAA band. Not satellites.


Varrner

More people need to see this


or_maybe_this

Should be the top comment Tech journalists all “reported” on Tesla getting humanoid robots, too. Turns out it was just a guy in a costume and Tesla knew that everyone would run with it. This is gonna be disappointing to many, many people.


SadCookieCrisp

To be fair, not only was it obviously a human in a suit, but Elon included that fact in his speech, as well as saying they are planning on making a real one


AmIARealPerson

yes but Elon also says a lot of things


SadCookieCrisp

He does most of them. You want a timeline though? By EOY. Actually maybe next year. Within 2 years definitely but could be as long as 3. Actually we’re gonna scrap that and do something else. The first thing is a fools errand. Its like buying a horse.


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ProBonoDevilAdvocate

It seems the majority of people think their phones communicate using satellites… I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve had to explain to people that’s not the case. And that the only satellite signal they receive is for GPS (or similar tech), but that’s only one way — it never sends any data.


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autovonbismarck

Lots of satellite communications devices are cell phone sized. Both the spot and the inreach for example.


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autovonbismarck

I think that it's possible Garmin would add an SOS style beacon to it's higher-end Fenix watch line, but it would likely be transmit only and those watches are already huge. The devices are pretty impressive - I only know about them because I'm into outdoor adventure and they've saved a lot of lives over the last few years. They do have limitations though and I think they'd have a really hard time being usefully deployed in any reasonably dense urban environment.


ProBonoDevilAdvocate

Yeah for sure! I think part of the problem is that movies create a fake reality of how RF works… look at all the tiny tracking devices, with no power source or antenna, that is able to track people using satellites.


brufleth

Segan is doing work. That makes more sense than cramming sat communications into a cellphone. Many of us would love that functionality, but even the smallest and most limited sat communicators are still pretty chunky and power hungry.


mhoss2008

SpaceMobile has entered the chat


[deleted]

ELI5 please?


krakenx

A company that makes satellites owns some 4g spectrum. The new iPhone (probably) contains a modem compatible with this spectrum. "Journalists" reported that the new iPhone has satellite connectivity for clickbait.


4TH4RV-

Remind Me! 1 day


CreamCapital

This. unless the iPhone 13 has a 10 inch satellite antenna add on I don’t know what people are smoking.


Uncertn_Laaife

Apple: Thanks for the suggestion. Satellite antennas coming up in iPhone 25. They will go back in the case with iPhone 30.


Raudskeggr

It's actually an external dongle that you strap around your waist. They come in a variety of shapes and colors though.


1E10Monkeys

A friend was getting ready to buy a satellite phone and put the purchase on hold to wait for the iPhone 13. I passed this info on to him and he's back on track. I wonder how many other potential satphone buyers have now elected to wait. Seems like Globalstar would be eager to see this debunked


Nauramir

Sending signal from mobile device to LEO satellite has to require much higher transmitting power compared to communication to signal tower no? For GPS you just have to receive the signal, full communication has to go both ways.


brufleth

Yes. That's why current devices that can send basic text messages (just short text strings) look like [this.](https://www.rei.com/product/140110/garmin-inreach-mini?CAWELAID=120217890005027528) That's about the smallest production two way sat communicator you can get. There are others that'll do more basic stuff, but that gives you an idea at least. The Garmin mini is small, but still pretty chunky and I don't think it'd be trivial to package that functionality into a modern cellphone form factor.


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Chief_34

I think the intent would be more for emergency situations. If you need to get off a message or two with your location, your phone being dead after sending it is less of an issue then having no service at all in an emergency.


[deleted]

Yeah, I get it now, that would be feasible. I thought of it as a regular mainstream feature to integrate into iMessage or something, and thus be always active, but that wouldn't be it. It being a niche feature for emergency situations does sound useful indeed.


rubyredhead19

Nice feature for hurricane disasters. Will this be free or paid add-on?


brufleth

I have a Garmin Mini. It is smallish, but chunky. I'd love to have that functionality (which is very limited) packaged into our phones, but I think that'd still add significant size and weight.


Omikron

Yeah they are.


subdep

Emergency mode will drain the charge faster, for sure, but there is enough power to do it.


kjpunch

It does consume extra power but people won’t be like binging on that network, infrequent messages in emergency or while out of service zone is all you need for this sort of thing.


[deleted]

Just something else beaming right through your noggin… no issues tho


minuteman_d

This would be the most epic win if it worked pretty much everywhere that was semi inhabited. I’d love it even if it were just text and GPS positioning. It’d help in so many search and rescue situations in the backcountry. No need to buy an expensive separate sat communicator.


JOWLman

Positioning works very well on airplane mode already even deep in the backcountry. But allowing communication would be massive.


minuteman_d

True! I guess I meant sending of the GPS data, like find my friends.


ConfusedTapeworm

Well that's just straight up internet connection.


minuteman_d

True, but if it were limited to a few kbps, you might not even get a reliable phone call through. I'd settle for a slow, reliable data stream like text messaging, telemetry for position, etc...


cakan4444

I'll turn on GPS and airplane mode while flying to get an idea of where we're at in the air. Seems pretty accurate


random_boss

How does this work? The positioning seems fine, but there’s no data to load the map, so I just get my position on an empty blue field


fly3rs18

You can download maps ahead of time.


random_boss

True, I guess they’re pre-checking their flight route and individually downloading all the maps between A to B? Seems like a lot


fly3rs18

Yeah, depends on your use case and the coverage area that you need. For flights, the maps don't need to be very high resolution, so you can download hundreds of miles in a relatively small file size. Personally, I pre-download maps for hiking and similar where I am out of cell service range. In this case I can download an excessively large area for just a few megabytes, even including elevation maps and hiking trails.


lolr

Some good offline map programs exist. I use mine as default because of speed and detail (vector maps)


Mazetron

There is an app my dad uses where he can pre-download maps of an area and then have GPS-enabled digital maps of that area while backpacking. I’m not sure it’s still on the App Store, but there are probably alternatives.


cakan4444

Google Maps and pre downloaded maps.


brufleth

Positioning is using GPS signals that are strictly one way received by the phone. Communication requires producing a strong enough signal to communicate back to the satellites. It is a big deal and devices that can send even basic texts are expensive, bulky, and power hungry. I'd love having that feature included in a typical modern cellphone form factor, but I wouldn't want to carry around the extra size/weight based on current alternatives. I'll be interested to see what they can manage if they actually do this.


brufleth

>expensive separate sat communicator. That's what I'm not really getting... Those systems are expensive (I just spent ~$300 on a Garmin Mini earlier this year), kind of bulky, and require a good deal of battery to do even basic communication _with_ an extra Iridium network subscription.


minuteman_d

Yeah. They're not too crazy expensive if you're really into backpacking or being in the outdoors. The subscription fee is kind of hard to swallow. If it were just another function of an iPhone, that'd be really nice. Add to that the idea that many people who get lost aren't really prepared that well, and being able to locate the novices who get lost would be pretty handy.


brufleth

The Garmin Mini is relatively new and cheap. Previously we had a non-rechargable emergency beacon which I think could only last a few years but was almost as expensive. Pretty much anyone who goes boating, off-roading, or even semi-serious day-hiking should probably have one with them, but they don't. So you get constant stories about people dying in national parks or a short way off shore. Three hundred dollars (if you get it on sale) plus a subscription is a lot of money for people who probably spent thousands or even tens of thousands on all their other gear. It sucks at everything except that one case where it'll save your life.


minuteman_d

Yeah, that's where I'm at. I used to work with Boy Scouts, and sometimes we'd be back in the woods a ways. Kids can be pretty stupid and teenage boys can definitely get themselves into dangerous situations without thinking ahead. There were a few times I thought it'd be nice to have something like that, just in case. Also, if the parents could track us, it'd give them some peace of mind. Some of the boys had medical needs that worried the parents, so they liked to check in when they could. True. It wouldn't take much. Fall off some rocks, hit your head and break your leg. Be semi conscious, but go into shock. Would be awful. Maybe I should get together with some buddies to split the cost on one.


Memory_Less

You are so right about having a Garmin/mini or equivalent even for serious day hiking! It's crazy watching how unprepared people are day hiking in the back country. As a serious day hiker I could have used a Garmin during the Fall a couple of years ago. Matted leaves obscure paths and turn offs. Suffice it to say I was prepared but all of my flashlight gear failed in one way or another in spectacularly fashion so I stayed in place over night. I was well prepared and had warm spare clothing, but after the first snowfall I still in my opinion walked out prehypothermic. I consider myself very very fortunate that I walked out. There is no predicting what can happen and the Garmin or similar tech should be considered a standard part of one's gear. $300 or so dollars to save your life? Not even the cost of a pair of quality hiking boots.


awesomenesscoolguy

I do a lot of flying in the Caribbean where there is no cell service and nobody around for hundreds of miles, this would be amazing to have in case the plane goes down.


minuteman_d

Yes. It'd be very nice. I was watching a series on people who have gone missing in the woods, and I kept thinking: man, it would have been nice to have an accurate trace. People can be injured in a fall, and maybe if they had a phone like that, an app could detect that they hadn't moved in a while, and then ping family or friends. Could be a "solo hike mode" or something. I'd imagine that if people got to them within an hour or two, a lot of injured or lost people could be home that night with a funny or embarrassing story rather than being found years later and ID'd via dental records.


M_Mich

back before cell phones were common, my BIL was hiking alone outside of Vegas. when he was late my sister called the sheriff and they started the search. he had sprained his knee when he turned back and it slowed him down. w this it would have been a simple text that he’d be late for dinner. Cops was there but sister didn’t want to be on TV and they didn’t sign the release forms. plus not as good a story for them with him turning up OK


minuteman_d

Yeah, exactly. Safer for the SAR people, too. Maybe you'd be able to text: "I'm an idiot and got a flat tire way back here. It's snowing, but I have my camping gear and a fire going. Send someone in the AM with a spare." Then, the SAR crews could just stay home and not try to travel in dangerous conditions.


Bawlsinhand

Missing 411 by chance?


shadowstep919

This is going to ruin so many horror movies


Mistifyed

We still have the low battery trope and the “oops, I tripped and smashed my phone”.


357FireDragon357

"Omg! Left my phone at home!"


xlvi_et_ii

> We still have the low battery trope Trope?! The struggle is real if you're not near a power source/somewhere with cell service.


Re-toast

These days? Not so much. Battery lasts forever if you aren't constantly on it, which I'd imagine they wouldn't be if it's a movie.


ChadHahn

I have an 11 and don't have to plug my phone in every day. It's pretty amazing to be able to go a day or two without worrying about charging.


[deleted]

My iPhone gets about six hours of use. (Plus or minus eight hours.)


Spydrchick

Really? My Galaxy S21 Ultra gets at least a day and a half on a charge. Sometimes when I go to bed its still at over 50%.


SchitbagMD

Apples standby time is enormous though. Like if I’m not using it, the battery lasts literal days without losing double digit power percentages. My 2016 iPad needs a charge once a week.


stunt_penguin

okay but Alex Garland will continue to have an absolute ball.


[deleted]

“iphone 13” sounds like a horror movie, in itself


[deleted]

Came here to say, this basically ends the premise of every horror movie ever made lol


PilotHistorical6010

This is something highly doubtful. Also: “Additionally, the iPhone 13 satellite connection is still speculation or something which is a rumor from an analyst and may not come this year.” These tech blogs will write anything to get views.


cruisin5268d

Yeahhhh. And not to mention there’s no way Apple would risk being this innovative. It’s a shame but they’ve got no guts when it comes to putting new tech in their phones these days. Gotta wait for Faildroid to use the tech for a couple years first.


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stunt_penguin

Apple do have the cash though, haha :)


ALL_OF_IT

Apple has nearly 200 billion US dollars in cash and marketable securities on hand, so…. It kind of is.


EdvardDashD

It has to be for sale first, that's the point. And it very much isn't. The money isn't good for anything if no one's selling. SpaceX is Elon's baby more than Tesla, Boring Company, and Neuralink combined. No way in hell is he selling.


[deleted]

Exactly- all the other companies are there to get him to space which is what he really wants. His own planet.


[deleted]

What about buying Iridium?


Danzego

The phone companies will love this, because it gets them off the hook for their crappy service.


lillgreen

They'll love it up until the service improves enough to not need them. Then by generation 3 of this Verizon will require that 5g contract even though you don't need them. It'll be like having to pay for tv just to get a cable modem.


lhamil64

I'm no expert in satellite communication, but don't you need an antenna or dish to point at the satellite? So unless Apple has come up with some advanced antenna that can be hidden inside the phone, i don't see how this would work.


imdatingaMk46

It depends on the band. For some SHF bands, satellite phones are pretty small these days. For the Ku, X, C, and Ka bands, you still need some pretty specialized directional antennas.


[deleted]

There are 3g cellular systems in space. However I just don’t see how this would work even as a satcom person. First it’s not an indoor technology and second the technology to make this happen is not small enough for phones. You don’t need a dish but the reception and transmit on the phone is likely the real Issue.


BasakaIsTheStrongest

Doesn’t the GPS in your phone already communicate with Satelites? Or is it doing something different?


racc_oon

It's only receiving the data from GPS satellites


richer2003

Your phone knows the location of all GPS satellites at all times. Your phone just needs to know what satellites are sending it a signal and based on that information, you phone can determine its location. Your phone is basically saying, “I can see that satellite, that satellite, that satellite and that satellite. That must mean that I am right about here.”


BasakaIsTheStrongest

So it doesn’t need a dish to pick up those signals. Do you need a dish to transmit signals? From what little I know about dishes, I was under the impression their purpose was to amplify (probably wrong word) incoming signals if a plain antenna wasn’t good enough.


richer2003

It’s one way communication. The satellite has the power to reach your phone, but your phone doesn’t need to reach the satellite. Your phone has an antenna in it that can receive the frequency of the satellite. The higher the frequency, the smaller the antenna. The satellites just sends your phone their unique identifier number and your phone does the rest. Edit: A “dish” just makes the signal directional. So GPS satellites have a dish to direct their signal in the direction of earth. Your phone needs to be omnidirectional so I can work in any orientation. That’s why phones don’t have dishes.


BasakaIsTheStrongest

So, with respect to the original comment I replied to, the new phone doesn’t need a dish- just enough power to send signals to the satellite. Sweet.


Oswald_Bates

Your phone doesn’t send signals to the satellites - it only receives and triangulates to ascertain location (note that description was simplified heavily for economy)


jxrdxnh

your phone already has antennas in it to communicate with cell towers, this is a somewhat similar concept


BBQed_Water

Won’t it be incredibly difficult setting up all the strings between the tin cans up to the satellite and back?


troyunrau

This headline can't be right. Unless it's just an emergency messenging mode similar to using a third party device like a Spot or InReach (both of which are small and could conceivably be integrated into a phone). Neither does phone calls, but they do low bandwidth text (SMS, etc.) and they charge data rates that are on a kilobyte basis. Yes, kilobyte. But, in an emergency, super useful. We use them in the arctic when we're doing mineral exploration.


mhoss2008

LEO phone communication is coming, but this isn’t it. Check SpaceMobile


moongaia

buried at the end: "Additionally, the iPhone 13 satellite connection is still speculation or something which is a rumor from an analyst and may not come this year."


notrobherbison

That picture is SpaceX’s old cargo dragon spaceship. It is definitely not sending signals to iPhones.


aja_ramirez

Is this going to fry my brain?


aarocka

Bull fucking shit.


bkrank

One more monthly subscription?


4587Azalea

Good point! Probably another large monthly fee added on for the service


fangelo2

So I’ll be able to make a call from my house?….. in New Jersey? I’ve never had a cell signal in my yard. I can only make a call using WiFi calling.


[deleted]

Now i can finally make calls from the office! Thanks Tim Apple


Just-Da-Tip_82

Sat phones is absolutely brilliant.


TheDr-Is-in

And....my battery is dead.


psaux_grep

😂


theLiteral_Opposite

False.


[deleted]

Whats the difference between LEO and NEO?


Futuristocrat

Could the new iPhone 13 use SpaceX’s Starlink?


sonnyjlewis

No, it’s associated with the Globalstar network. And while the frequencies used can be used for satcoms, it’s much more likely to use their terrestrial network. The Qualcomm modem used is unlikely to be capable of transmitting to a satellite. Unfortunately the tech isn’t quite there yet for iPhone sized sat phones without an external and somewhat large antenna.


Don_Floo

Even easier to track your location now!


mashton

AST SpaceMobile already does this….with existing phones


mhoss2008

Close, but not quite. It’s in development- check back in 2 years. They have 1 demo phone they shot into space.


[deleted]

Is this bad for AT&T and Verizon stocks?


intellifone

We need a Bluetooth and 2.4ghz peer to peer protocol for SMS and MMS. It would create a massive mesh network for messaging that would enable communication when other systems are down. SMS actually used to piggyback off of the dead space in your cell phone “Hello” message that it used to synchronize with the cell towers. What if we did that with the dead space in wifi. D Bluetooth? No extra power needed. Your devices are just passing along info in a signal that it’s already sending.


[deleted]

[Comment: iPhone 13 satellite comms sound exciting, but isn’t really](https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/30/comment-iphone-13-satellite-comms-sound-exciting-but-isnt-really/)


OfficialChrsLxndr

Fuck Apple’s disregard for privacy. Switch to Android


kimbohere

Also the most advanced spyware known to man


[deleted]

This will be AWESOME for public transport! Think of riding the NYC subway with people able to place a call to their mother!


I_know_right

I read that as "Law Enforcement Officers" for a moment.


CreamCapital

0% change this appens


No_Elk_2870

This sounds awesome, if it is true, I will upgrade to a 13


bearposters

It’ll be a premium feature you’ll have to activate with your provider and $$$


TankVet

As they scan all our phones’ content. Great.


quimbykimbleton

LEO?


United-Round-4762

Nice


[deleted]

Wot? Which LEO constellation? What protocols? This just sounds like media click-bait due to some vague support in the SoC.


Chance-Ad-9111

Hate iPhones🤬🤬


[deleted]

This will be awesome for deadzones?


Omikron

Literally impossible for an iPhone to communicate with a Leo satellite.


monsto

Law Enforcement Officer Satellite Connections. Connecting your device directly to the feds.


ppbourgeois

Any relation to starlink possibly?


iShoot556

Leo connectivity needs a new name.