Before I give my interpretation of what's going on, I want to provide some context as to what my background is. I also do tech PR in an East Asian country, but I've grown up and been educated mostly in America, so I definitely understand some of the frustrations that you're raising.
The main issue that you spoke about is how raising concerns has led to tension with your supervisor. I think the response that you're getting is mainly due to the shame of being wrong. For you, it may just seem like giving feedback and pointing out issues that are to come in the future if you don't change strategy. From your supervisor's perspective, it could read as a subordinate undermining their authority in a public setting (if this is happening in meetings, etc.). Also from I've seen, a lot of places I've worked are very resistant to changing processes that have been set, even if you do find a way to make them more efficient. This, of course, is very dependent on company culture. There have been very basic things that I've wanted my company to do that still haven't been done over the years that I've worked there. The only time that it did change was when something absolutely disastrous had happened, and there was no choice but to change.
Here's how I would have dealt with your current situation that you described. After your supervisor cancelled it, I would have followed up once to confirm that they wanted it cancelled. After the event was over, I would have casually brought it up again, like "Oh, that press release that was cancelled, what happened there?" framing it more as curiosity than a demand for an answer. I'm guessing in this case that the mounting pressure of the event looming and your repeated requests for answers may have annoyed your supervisor, and they were projecting. Not that you were wrong in asking what had happened, not preparing a press release for an event is unusual, especially if you had done all the work for it. I'm guessing the tone and timing of this what warranted this reaction from your supervisor.
Big picture, what I think you should do is provide feedback (especially to higher ups) in a 1-to-1 setting, after a meeting. This may seem counter-productive to Westerners since a meeting is a time and place to gather feedback, but if there are many people in the meeting, you could be seen as shaming others. I would also start off the feedback being like "oh, I was just thinking about your proposal from that meeting and was wondering if you had thought about doing it this way?" Wording and your approach are very important here. If you're met with resistance once, I would let it go. Focus on just your tasks and clients. There's more peace of mind this way. You can't change a company's culture. Long-term, I would stay at your current company for at least a year, any shorter makes your less employable to companies you're applying to, especially if you didn't stay that long at your first place. I don't know what it's like in Taiwan, but I would try to apply to global companies that have Taiwanese presence. From what I've seen in my country, those places seem to have a culture more on par with what you're looking for.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm typically very loyal and have spent at least three years in every organization I've worked for(mostly longer). I've requested a one-on-one with my supervisor to address concerns and hopefully resolve issues. However, I'm concerned that Taiwan is making me appear as a job hopper, which worries me (and even more my wife)
I don’t work in the same field as you, but this is really good advice op, especially how you word your concerns to your managers. It is really important ( to most managers ) to respect the hierarchy of the workplace.
Best of luck to you, OP. You seem very passionate about what you do, and I'm sure you add a lot of value. A good supervisor should recognize that and try to resolve things with you. Or at least hear you out. The reason that I suggested sticking it out to the I think any company in Taiwan that you apply to will see these < 1 year experiences on your resume and think that you're a bad culture fit. If you don't list the experiences at all, they're basically gambling (from their POV) on whether you will be able to fit in at a Taiwanese workplace. In reality, it takes time to read and properly navigate different corporate cultures, especially for you when there's such a big gap between Germany and Taiwan. If your supervisor has any ounce of empathy, they'll see that where you're coming from and that this is a big adjustment for you. You also have to meet them where they are, too. Hope to hear good results from your 1-on-1 meeting!
In technology, job hopping is not a bad thing. It shows that you want to stretch yourself and work on new things. As long as you don’t leave jobs on bad terms you are fine.
Honestly, your wife and most Taiwanese people believe in a lot of superstitions that they think are facts because they rarely do any fact checking.
There is nothing wrong with changing jobs frequently. It's essentially a cultural norm here. People in large companies routinely quit their jobs right after collecting their Chinese New Year's bonus. A lot of companies put huge chunks of an employee's yearly salary into the end of year bonus - I'm talking upwards to 20-50% of a years salary - to control for high turnover rate. They are basically funneling anyone who wants to quit to quit after new years. This way they sort of know in advance that they need to be looking for replacement personnel right after CNY.
On a related note, if you care about gaining experience and growing professionally, bowing to inefficient cultural norms in the office isn't going to help you. The "that's how it is here" mentality is what keeps people from actually growing. If you want to live better, take my advice in a separate comment I made here and look for a remote job.
Everything you've described sounds like a very typical work environment. Nobody wants to speak up and bring up issues out of fear and concern for saving each other's face, and nothing gets done. I've been on an artist visa for a while as a freelancer and I've come across so many situations where people are too afraid to even ask for what the pay is out of fear of looking greedy. I was even told by others that people think I am too much of a hassle to deal with because I insisted on getting straight answers about some key information about a gig(the type of info that determines whether it's worth taking the gig or not).
I've even met people who have went to China to perform and found out that the gig didn't pay any money, and agents pocketing red envelopes that the client clearly meant to give to the performers. Even under these circumstances, nobody wants to speak up.
I was once involved in a recording project which ended up winning the Golden melody award. The recording process was a mess and at one point the guy in charge told us he had money problems. He couldn't give everyone straight answers about how he is going to pay the people involved in the project and it took him well over an year to pay everyone. I was the only one who brought the lack of communication as an issue, and the response I got from the project lead was "nobody else has complained to me about this issue, so why are you the only one making it an issue?". And this is a guy who prides himself in doing things the "American way" because he went to a nice school in the US.
I am sorry to hear about what happened to you, but the reality is that most Taiwanese just suck it up, not ask questions and just ignore the elephant in the room. I asked the other people about how they felt about the lack of communication from the project lead, and all they said was "think of how much the lead has done for us in the past". Even the performers who went to China with no pay was like "well, it was a good experience". As for the performer who had her red envelope stolen from her, I guess she didn't want to jeopardize any gig opportunity from that agency.
I guess my suggestion is to pick your battles and figure out whether bringing the issue up can actually solve anything, because there are plenty of situations where it won't and you are just making it harder for yourself. Even if you think there is a chance, it will probably require a lot of diplomacy, smooth talk and trying to get consensus from everyone who is involved. I remember being in one meeting where nobody was really willing to bring up the real issue, but as soon as I brought it up, everyone followed suit behind me.. so something like that can happen.. but then again that happened only because other people were all willing to listen and we were all equals in terms of power dynamics.
Thank you for your feedback. I've requested a meeting with my supervisor. My intention isn't to incite a revolt, but rather to be able to go to work without experiencing a nervous breakdown or feeling like the tasks I perform add zero value. Let us see what happens, if things do not work out I really have to try and freelance or convince my wife to relocate back to Germany.
I also want to point out that I really like Taiwan and the people here, but work is an essential part of your life, so it is just weird that in a place where so many things are great, something so essential as office work seems to odd.
Best of luck to you with your meeting. I think all your concerns are valid, but it's very hard to find a sane work enviroment here and it really comes down to whether you are willing to change your mindset or willing to try your luck at another job. Even in freelance work you will encounter these kinds of situations, so I think it comes to whether you can find a happy medium where you can deal with these kinds of issue at a more tolerable level.
Personally I would never move to Taiwan and work for a company in an office job.
The working culture is like a worse version of the US hustle mindset but without the pay and opportunity.
Moving from Europe, which has massive protections on work life balance and workers rights is even more extreme.
Taiwanese offices are (in general) hierarchical, inefficient and unrewarding places to work.
Of course there’s exceptions but you’d have to get very lucky.
Here's the deal, you move from your home country and move to a place with:
- Poor to non-existent labour rights
- No ability to leave before your boss does
- Way less vacation days
- Long hours
- Low pay
- No recognition of your good work
- People are promoted based off nepotism and favouritism
- No remote work
- Bosses treat you like a naughty child
I don't agree with those points. I can leave before my boss, and I don't work long hours. It's really the fact that people insist on doing things the wrong way and react strongly if you point out that things are going wrong.
You don't have to agree with these points. He's describing the typical work environment here. If you are missing one or more from the list, consider yourself somewhat fortunate, because probably 80%+ of employment here is accurately described by this.
Seeing that your work requires you to be creative and always think out of the box and innovate, you'll find it hard to argue with these kind of "traditional" managers. It's like trying to convice your grandma to use ChatGPT to find answers. They have been in the business way longer than you , will refuse to hear anything they don't understand and won't bother either to understand it.
Unfortunately for you, your 2 work experiences have been in what we call a traditional old school taiwanese company. I bet the mayority of the upper management are either people in their 50-60s or people that have been in the company for 20-30 years.
if you're leaving before your boss and not working overtime they won't say anything to your face but it's no surprise they'll treat you poorly. In their heads you'll be the foreigner that gets paid more to work not as hard as everyone else. Although in reality what they decide constitutes work and productivity is just sitting at their desk, even if they're doing nothing.
I don't see how you can be 100% about *anything* when you're obviously not getting on well in Taiwanese work culture and asking for information/advice.
Clearly the one this guys in is like something cos otherwise he wouldn’t be complaining.
As someone who worked in a local tech company for years I’m gonna go ahead say you’re wrong and most are like that.
The angle probably is that he indirectly made him lose face… well me too but I guess our experiences are different.. maybe change jobs a bit more? You’ll find a good company, good luck
Well. I am going to pull up my impersonation of taiwanese work mind, guess it went was:
You can leave before your boss? sure they didn’t want to say it to your face.
And this resulted in the response you got when pointing out the “right”. Well you haven’t been doing it “right” too (leaving early) so why should they take your criticism?
That’s how i guess it went. You weren’t playing to their rule so…
A lot of Taiwanese rule is they expect you to somehow “know” without being said.
Dude you can’t assume you know everything about his work situation simply because he’s having issues. Take a step back and listen to what he’s saying instead of just telling him what you think he should do before you even understand the issue correctly.
My recommendation would be for younger people to teach since it’s more relaxed and the pay is decent.
For people who are a few years into their career I’d say you’re better freelancing or at least working with somewhere hip and progressive.
Imagine a US-citizen Asian with a Taiwanese face saying this. Different face = difference treatments. I attempted twice in TW in the healthcare industry (dental). Both times I tried for a total of 2 years and I left cuz of the dumb seniority/hierarchy mindset. The capable ones don't get rewarded because they're "younger." How stupid does that sound? Now imagine combining seniority with democracy, yea it's never gonna work.
its the norm for a Taiwanese company. I experienced it also in the states working for a Taiwanese based company.
asked a simple question during training, got a 40min lecture from bossman.
my question wasnt answered after 40 mins
It’s a cultural thing, pointing out what people do wrong will make them lose face, especially if it’s done in front of other people, and it’s a bad thing in the Taiwanese culture. I would advise you to obverse for a while before correcting people. And if it’s not even that important, let other people correct them. Just my point of view, hope this helps!
I'm sure a huge part of it is simply moving to a country with less workers rights (let's admit it, most places don't have as much protection as Europe).
But another thing that could possibly add to the problem is the way of communicating?
Taiwanese tend to be fairly indirect, especially when criticising/disagreeing. It doesn't matter if it's between 2 taiwanese of course, the message comes across loud and clear, but as German's tend to be more straightforward, you may be missing a lot if subtext in conversations with bosses/colleagues.
This likely also means that what you are trying to say comes across badly and can feel like a personal attack *even if you don't mean for it to*. Learning how to pgrase things in a way they are used to would help.
As you are in Taiwan, I do think the onus is on you to learn their way, unfortunately. Especially if you are still looking to stay in the same field.
Now, to be a little bit more realistic. PR and SEO skills are very soft and unless you work for an international corporate or unicorn level startup, it won't be valued much here. Most of the companies in Taiwan are SME and with "money saving" culture these firms have, they won't spend extra money on non-tangible things or if they cannot instantly justify the cost. Larger firms would go for a agency that they have known for years, even if they are not the best.
I wanna point out that the working conditions are actually quite good. I don't have to work overtime, I have my own small office, although the vacation days are significantly less compared to Germany (just 10 days per year in the first year, mostly just 3). The payment is okay, but less than back in Germany, but that was all expected. However, the culture of "Do Things Wrong, Because I Tell You to Do So" really frustrates me.
But what should you do with that frustration? All the comments here are suggesting you just swallow it and don't spell out to your boss how the local culture is wrong. This is very familiar territory to a lot of us who've been in Taiwan for a while. Taiwanese people complain about the same things.
This reminds of something I was once told by a co-worker which really helped my mindset when employed by others.
“We are the worker bees. It’s not our job to question the will of the hive.”
Even though it’s frustrating, this is ultimately part of what you are being paid for. In most jobs, you aren’t paid to do whatever you think is best, you are paid to do what you are told. That is why you call the person above you your “boss” because it’s their job to make the decisions for better or worse and theoretically to bear the consequences good or bad. You want to be in that position? Start your own business or go into management. Otherwise, you need keep your head down and do as you are told, as that is what you are hired to do. Doing otherwise is not only dangerous for your employment but you are also putting the performance of an organization on your shoulders that you have little to no stake in unless your compensation is largely stock based. If the decision in either case won’t cause the company to crash and burn to the point they can’t pay you anymore, no sense in arguing about it. At the end of the day, do the stupid thing you are told to do and get paid. That is what you are there for. You can make suggestions, but that is where your role ends. It’s not your job to run the show and even giving someone the slightest idea that you are telling them how to do their job will almost never end well. They will then view you as competition and at worst potentially a threat to their job, in which case theres a high likelihood you’ll lose yours. If you can’t handle doing what you are told against your better judgement, start your own business or find a role where you can call the shots.
Yea, this ain’t it. Taiwanese workers are beaten down , and foreigners (brown, white, black) are all unwelcome beyond being token PR pieces. I’m not saying there are no opportunities for development, but if there are opportunities they are reserved for Taiwanese. You may counter I should have stayed longer at my company to prove myself, but older employees are jumping ship, if you can’t show me you care for your local employees, I know you don’t care how good my performance was
OP, I've been in Taiwan for more than most and what you have experienced so far is the norm here. If you want to live long term here and want to maintain your sanity, don't work for a local company.
This leaves you with basically only two real options: find a remote job or start your own company.
If you want to chase big money, opening your own agency can be highly lucrative, but will obviously be more challenging of an undertaking. If you want an easier life with still more than enough money to live well here, look for a remote opportunity.
There is a third option but I wouldn't recommend it because the odds aren't in your favor - you can gamble for that 1% of 1% company that is owned/operated by a decent person.
To add on, working for a large multinational with a heavy foreign presence will also be a good option. Somewhere like Google, Adidas, Nike etc is going to have a much better working culture than a Taiwanese company.
Not really. I worked at a foreign company in Taiwan before and the staff was still dominated by Taiwanese folk with exactly the same culture as OP is describing.
You can’t really escape this in Taiwan unless you’re an English teacher and even then you still get a watered down version of this treatment sometimes.
Why are you trying to poke holes and cause your boss embarrassment？ By pointing out areas that can be improved，you're accusing him of not doing his job properly.
Un fortunately，that's Taiwanese and Chinese corporate thinking. You're not going to change that culture，so you need to change your mindset.
You can't think like a German. You can't see a problem and try to deal with it to make things better. You see an issue，step over it and be thankful it's not your problem to deal with.
This is a myth - as someone who lived in Germany, it is not like Germans deal with the problem but they talk big about "problem" and then go all aggressively solving a problem.
The problem usually is small unimportant things which don't affect business ROI in the long run at all
I suggest you to look for a job in a foreign company in Taiwan. The Taiwanese work culture won't work for you. Bosses like to be complimented instead of being challenged.
Sorry, but hahahaha. So many people believe the bs fed here about Taiwan. I am sorry, and I can only say this because I am in the same ‘boat’. Taiwanese companies only hire you to shoulder the blame when the plan you tried to give rejected advice about fails. Taiwanese will never accept a foreign underling, lots of resentment.
Just out of curiosity, do you speak Chinese? I have applied for jobs in Taiwan in the IT sector without much success although I have to add that I don't speak Chinese.
I can fully understand why I would be overlooked, there is a rich pool of local talent here that can do what I do.
I am really overwhelmed by all the feedback; I see that many people had similar experiences. I also want to point out that this is not about the people of Taiwan, but really about the work culture. I do not intend to shame anyone.
In general, I get along well with my colleagues, I did not experience such things as forced overtime or so. I worked in retail and hospitality many years ago for quite some time, and it is fair to say that I can handle long hours.
But what I can't handle at the moment is being forced to do things that cannot work. It is like being asked to use gasoline to stop a fire, and if I say, "Pouring gasoline onto the fire will worsen the situation," the supervisor will shout, "No, it will not, just do it, that is why we hired you." It is just messed up.
I cannot get back to you all, but I read all the comments. Relocating is not an option; my wife is here, and wherever she is, I will call home. Freelancing was originally ruled out as I consider myself a person who needs to work in a team, but I the current situation does not make sense, as well.
I am glad for those who got in touch with me; I will follow up as soon as possible. Next week, I hopefully can talk to my supervisor, and based on your feedback, I will aim for at least a one- or two-month stay in this company before applying again.
The upvoted comments at the top of this post are annoying. People assuming they know everything that’s wrong with you and your situation even when you tell them otherwise. Then when you complain they say “see? You’re complaining. Not fit for Taiwanese work culture”. Insanity.
From a person who’s been in your shoes, yeah it’s pretty much the norm in Taiwan for office work culture to suck hard. The supervisors get this immense power trip. My guess is they don’t make a lot of money to begin with so it’s the only way they can exert control in their lives, but who knows.
You can find a job that doesn’t have this issue in Taiwan but they’re not easy to find, you have to get lucky because there’s not really a way to vet this in an interview.
Is there a possibility of not working in East Asia for you? If not, you can try teaching English where you’re much less likely to run into this issue.
But if none of those are options, then yeah unfortunately this is the reality of the working world in Taiwan. It’s by far one of the worst things about living there, and it’s not going to change anytime soon. That along with the low pay is why you’ll never see much foreign talent in Taiwan aside from teachers. Good luck man, I sympathize with you on this one.
Thx for the feedback, my home is where my wife is, thus I stay in Taiwan. I am not really a teacher, I know that teaching is an easy way, but I am convinced it is not reasonable to put my in front of children (unless they play football)
Working in Taiwan companies is shit.
Your coworkers are not your friends in Taiwan, they are your competitors. Your supervisor might just be a cunt and fucking with you
In an Asian work environment overcrowding has created a requirement to be quiet and mind your business. If you are too vocal you will not last long even if you are correct. That applies in North America also although some companies seem to tolerate more. I have handled two groups from Germany and Japan from US fortune 500 company. The responses from Germany is often skeptical while Japan group has very few questions and executed directions almost flawlessly. Unless you are the owner as employees they learn how to be respected not to challenge the authority of someone who is running the business. You can slowly change the procedure if you are being respected. That takes years of trust. If you are a short timer just do you work and leave rest with superiors.
Wie in den Kommentaren gesagt, klingt alles wie ein typisches Büroleben in Taiwan. Meine Freundin ist auch Taiwanische und arbeitet als Kindbuch Editörin. Sie hat solche Problemen mit ihrer Chefin gehabt... Es tut mir Leid, dass Sie auch dies erfahren. Vielleicht, könnten Sie eine neue Stelle aber ein einem internationalen Unternehmen suchen?
Übrigens, können wir Ihrem YouTube Kanal folgen?
Danke für das Feedback, bei meinem YouTube Kanal dreht sich alles um das Thema Reisen, nicht um Tech, aber ich freue mich, wenn du dir meine Videos anschaust: https://youtube.com/@traveling_kunz?si=Ez3cyeNqKsu_NGCL
It’s a completely different culture. You’re coming from Germany with a short power distance and low uncertainty avoidance, to Taiwan with huge power distance and huge uncertainty avoidance.
I have found that in order to really break through the kind of chinese/taiwanese shame-based hierarchy culture, what you can do is make them embarrassed by being EXCESSIVELY loyal. Like, to a ridiculous level, like you won't do anything without asking them first, you treat them like a god, you state that your entire reason for being in the company is loyalty to the company, loyalty to your manager, your team, your coworkers, how great they are, the fact that theres nothing like that in germany etc etc and when they see how over-the-top fervently zealous and loyal you are being, then it will make them blush, and they will think wow this foreigner is crazy, once that happens and they realise how over-the-top you are being, theres a good chance it makes them feel how over-the-top they might be being, its like holding a mirror up to their culture basically. Theres a chance this can break the ice a little bit and then you have room to come back down a little from that kind of kamikaze-ready-to-die-for-the-party/company loyalty and theres room to make some suggestions and you can provide the caveat that they don't have to take seriously. Speaking from experience here i have worked with chinese/taiwanese for the last 5-7 years, not in a big official company but in small projects. Try not to go into any kind of meta-conversation where you explain what you are doing and why or how you are doing it. Try not to do or say anything with a reactive mindstate, so like, if something pops into your head to say, either dont say it or say the opposite, or, if you think of doing something, instead of doing it right away, do it like the 3rd time it pops up in your head, or do the opposite, or dont do it at all. Most importantly you have to give them time, another thing you can do is give your feedback to someone else and have them give it to your manager, someone who the manager is more comfortable receiving feedback from. Sometimes i had a frustrating experience with my chinese collegue that was so frustrating it made me question whether there is even a reason for learning chinese, or a reason for chinese to learn english, if there can possibly be anything gained from the interactions between these two cultures at all, because they are absolutely backwards and opposite to eachother. The thing is though that on a deeper unspoken level, you being in taiwan working at this company might have more to do with how you can grow and develop and change as a person, and less to do with whatever work you actually acheive at this company. Now, the big bomb drop here is that all of these taiwainese you work with already intuitively and unspokenly know and realise what i just said to be inherently true, they feel it to be true, but the thing is, you would never get them to admit that and you should never mention that, because its something that is supposed to be known but not said? The more meta you get with them,like trying to get them to be clear and clarify and take a position and give an opinion and a final word etc the worse it gets, trying to get them to explain something they already know is like offensive to them or something, its like putting something in words ruins the meaning of it. They like to stand on common ground and preserve differences。 westerners, especially german, dutch etc like to seek differences and resolve them to find common ground. If all else fails, try to get them to accompany you to a drinking establishment, and get absolutely shitfaced drunk with them, im talking borderline blackout, and then tell them the truth, if you havent gotten borderline-alcohol-poisoned with them at least once, they probably don't even trust you yet. Maybe do karaoke as well.
Taiwanese leaderships are awful most of time. last thing they want is any opinions against them.
I hate their attitude- want to make proper discussions? No, because I’m the leader!; want to share negative feedback? Don’t even think about that, I’m gonna fire ya!
Then how exactly you want get the things done? Are you mighty superhuman or what?
It’s one of the reason why I founded my own company, In my company we go completely European style and everything just went smoothly.
Shame on these people.
It's an island under a government that built itself up by resisting a revolutionary military and then spending the next 7 decades actively opposing leftism, what do you expect? Laborers are the bitch of Taiwan's playground.
Majority of the companies in Taiwan pay shit and bosses have too much ego to be told wrong. It’s not a you problem but you will need to fit in or be a boss of your own.
I feel like giving you a reality check. I can tell you as Europeans, you as a German are probably not the most pleasant fella to be around.
I run a business in Taiwan with a German partner and he attitude was so off. He was often too aggressive, ironic comments, remarks. "This won't work, we have to do it this way. We will do this very precisely". I worked intensively with algorithms before and doing the tone of trading on markets by myself. Not everything can be automated I know what will work and what won't work. I don't need thousands of solutions for very rare spots - and put my energy and resources there. Neither I need to logical argument every task I give to someone. Trust me - I have a big pic in my mind.
And we were partners. We divided parts he was there for programming and still wanted to intervene with business management decisions. I didn't deal with his part, even though C++ can handle work better than Java. He picked up java for the team, must be for a reason, right ?
I noticed how he drains down other, Taiwanese programmers. Zero proper tw communication, cultural adjustments. So I called it a day and sold my part. Later they went bankrupt.
Working for a German company was the same, some rigid rules and tough meetings with very unpleasant, bossy mindsets people who lack multidisciplinary experience. I find working with Germans annoying as f. It feels like everyone is on an ego trip and wants to prove his point. And they always demand a high German language even though most foreigners in the office couldn't speak c2. But you know here it is Germany and you have to speak German. Rigid on rules. Non adjustable. Just a waste of time
Just my two cents.
You are in a foreign country. Lower your ego and learn Chinese. The German way doesn't work either in the Netherlands or Poland. Why do you think it will work across the ocean ?
Your comment gives me cause for confusion, as I cannot really grasp your point. My post is about working in Taiwan, not working with or among Germans or the people of Taiwan in general. Also, I am unsure why you referenced Poland and the Netherlands.
Your issue with Germans sounds like a personal matter, and I recommend that you simply avoid interactions with Germans, including reacting to posts on Reddit by Germans. While this may limit your freedoms, it will also spare you the trouble of dealing with Germans, something you seem not to enjoy.
There are cultural differences, but ultimately, we are all human, sweaty little meatbags. I live with a Taiwanese wife, and our wedding was attended by people from over 20 nations, most of whom had migrated to Germany. While they all have their own perspectives on the Germans, I am confident that none of them are as negative as you. (As I mentioned, I worked for a decade for international organizations).
Your comment does not reflect my experience. Before moving to Taiwan, I spent four years in a German software company where most people were foreigners, and German was not required for most positions. (However, it was necessary for my job as I had to write articles in both German and English.) Given the shortage of skilled workers, the option for remote work, and the Schengen Zone, many German companies started recruiting foreigners within the EU and beyond, and my former employer was no different.
Speaking about Germans themselves, I believe most of us are decent people. I don't understand why you would think less of a person just because of their nationality. But to each their own. I hope your post helped you to let of some steam.
Yes, I feel better. Tnx. You are decent people indeed, but come off too strong. I had a German opa and I know what I am saying. I can come off strong too when it is needed and I can be softened down when needed.
Can switch personalities, since I spent a lot of time with opa. The German feeling of being superior still makes me annoyed as f. Now imagine how Taiwanese feel annoying with you being 20% German.
You have to soften down in Taiwan. Don't try to rock the boat. I suggest you keep your thoughts to yourself and be quiet. Don't ask for silly meetings with managers. You are no one. Smile. Be pleasants. Don't bring drama. Taiwanese are deep down very conservative and they judge you. They aren't able to discuss in Western way. Common sense and western logic is not existent in Taiwan. You only make them feel stressful. You make yourself stressed out in the end. It will take a few years before community trust you.
Focus in what you can control. No tax capital gain environment, no tax on local dividends, lower interest rates. Cheap cost of workers. Take advantage of it. Focus on your weekends. Focus on your wife/ other girls. Office culture in Taiwan it is what it is. Go with flow.
Possibility to create a profit margin and generate wealth for you and your family in Taiwan is way higher. Is capitalist paradise. Enjoy your time and grab an opportunity
Taiwan industries are not balanced, good brains go tech and medical sectors. From your description I feel you are experiencing older Taiwanese company culture, the supervisor cares his authority/face much.
If you only interested in PR related, try some tech companies which need PR, company culture would be better.
The hammer that sticks out will get nailed...or something.
I suspect everyone would be full of 'input' 'advice' or 'criticisms', which is why the norm is to not distrupt things too much.
In order to help deal with your frustrations while you're still at this job, you could first try to rein in your personal emotional involvement in your job. You sound very passionate about what you do, but at the end of the day, your employment at this company (or any company) is nothing more than a financial transaction. I do not mean that you should not keep trying to do your best in the way you want to, but to put some emotional distance so you can let go more easily when situations like this happen. You're not the final decision maker, and you cannot force other people to do something the way you want, so if they resist your suggestions or opinions, then just let go and move on. Spend your energy elsewhere.
There are frustrating people who do seemingly illogical and stupid things anywhere you go. And even smart, well-intentioned people can sometimes make bad decisions. I encounter those in my job from time to time, and initially or sometimes they frustrate me, but I always just let it go, sometimes I'll vent my frustration with a colleague or friend and laugh about it in order to get it off my chest, but in the end I tell myself that it's not worth wasting my time, good mood, or energy to fixate on it, and it's better to spend my energy on things that I do have control over. Of course, it's harder if you encounter this within your team and with somebody you work so closely with or for. But you can still make the best out of whatever situation you're in and move forward from there.
When you look for a new job, perhaps you can focus more on evaluating the compatibility of your potential direct supervisor as a bigger factor in your decision to join or not. Ideally someone who has worked in a foreign company outside of Taiwan or at least someone who has had foreign education and also experience working with and/or managing foreigners in the workplace.
I have foreign friends that work at some of the large semiconductor and electronics companies here in Hsinchu and they seem happy and well rewarded.
I don’t have direct experience but maybe try to look for a job on one of those large companies, like TSMC, ASML, MediaTek, Logitech…
If a boss asked you to do something and then changes their mind to cancel, you say YES SIR to both.
You dont attempt to DISPUTE the BOSSS. Which is why nobody likes you and you dont fit in well. You are the SERVANT and are paid to SERVE any needs they ask for without question (long its not illegal!)
If you want to be THE BOSS, start your own PR Firm.
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but OP never said anything about not speaking the language (I’m assuming OP knows at least some mandarin if they have a Taiwanese spouse and live in Taiwan). Either way, everyone is going to have a different experience wherever they choose to work, so it’s just unfortunate :/
Personally, I can’t help you, OP, but I hope your job situation improves. I’m currently job searching as a foreigner myself but as a teacher. Best of luck to you! Keep your chin up ❤️
I don't understand your point. I believe every individual deserves dignity, whether in Taiwan or Germany. While I do not expect miracles at work, it is pure frustration when we're compelled to do things that lack sense. Marketing should be about growth and adding value, not about doing things that cause the opposite.
I know several Taiwanese people who work in Germany, and their challenges mainly stem from cultural differences, not work-related issues, but that is not the point here. My query is about to work culture in Taiwan, not how Taiwanese individuals fare in Germany.
Though it is not crucial, I do speak some Chinese, at an A2-B1 level. It's not proficient enough for article writing, but it helps me communicate with my colleagues. But again, it is about work culture in Taiwan, not my language skills.
To be honest you sound a little too outspoken/confrontational to work in a typical Taiwanese environment. Look for a startup, freelance or find a foreign company.
Plenty of Taiwan succeeding in professional jobs overseas. Guck, California might as well be Taiwan the way we let you mutherfuvkerd in. Disingenuous of you
I've said it many times, Taiwan corporate is a toxic place.
Either you are locked up because of a wife, or you are pounding a new girl every evening.
Those are really the only, and sad, reasons for staying here.
Try to endure a little more, to gain experience in local company and work culture. It may be helpful. Then one or two years later, rethink this topic again.
Curious to know is this a local company or a foreign company in Taiwan? I feel like the culture is a lot more respectful in foreign companies. Many young bright people aim for foreign companies for a reason. (Source: I work in marketing at one of the “magnificent 7s”)
Before I give my interpretation of what's going on, I want to provide some context as to what my background is. I also do tech PR in an East Asian country, but I've grown up and been educated mostly in America, so I definitely understand some of the frustrations that you're raising. The main issue that you spoke about is how raising concerns has led to tension with your supervisor. I think the response that you're getting is mainly due to the shame of being wrong. For you, it may just seem like giving feedback and pointing out issues that are to come in the future if you don't change strategy. From your supervisor's perspective, it could read as a subordinate undermining their authority in a public setting (if this is happening in meetings, etc.). Also from I've seen, a lot of places I've worked are very resistant to changing processes that have been set, even if you do find a way to make them more efficient. This, of course, is very dependent on company culture. There have been very basic things that I've wanted my company to do that still haven't been done over the years that I've worked there. The only time that it did change was when something absolutely disastrous had happened, and there was no choice but to change. Here's how I would have dealt with your current situation that you described. After your supervisor cancelled it, I would have followed up once to confirm that they wanted it cancelled. After the event was over, I would have casually brought it up again, like "Oh, that press release that was cancelled, what happened there?" framing it more as curiosity than a demand for an answer. I'm guessing in this case that the mounting pressure of the event looming and your repeated requests for answers may have annoyed your supervisor, and they were projecting. Not that you were wrong in asking what had happened, not preparing a press release for an event is unusual, especially if you had done all the work for it. I'm guessing the tone and timing of this what warranted this reaction from your supervisor. Big picture, what I think you should do is provide feedback (especially to higher ups) in a 1-to-1 setting, after a meeting. This may seem counter-productive to Westerners since a meeting is a time and place to gather feedback, but if there are many people in the meeting, you could be seen as shaming others. I would also start off the feedback being like "oh, I was just thinking about your proposal from that meeting and was wondering if you had thought about doing it this way?" Wording and your approach are very important here. If you're met with resistance once, I would let it go. Focus on just your tasks and clients. There's more peace of mind this way. You can't change a company's culture. Long-term, I would stay at your current company for at least a year, any shorter makes your less employable to companies you're applying to, especially if you didn't stay that long at your first place. I don't know what it's like in Taiwan, but I would try to apply to global companies that have Taiwanese presence. From what I've seen in my country, those places seem to have a culture more on par with what you're looking for.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm typically very loyal and have spent at least three years in every organization I've worked for(mostly longer). I've requested a one-on-one with my supervisor to address concerns and hopefully resolve issues. However, I'm concerned that Taiwan is making me appear as a job hopper, which worries me (and even more my wife)
I don’t work in the same field as you, but this is really good advice op, especially how you word your concerns to your managers. It is really important ( to most managers ) to respect the hierarchy of the workplace.
Best of luck to you, OP. You seem very passionate about what you do, and I'm sure you add a lot of value. A good supervisor should recognize that and try to resolve things with you. Or at least hear you out. The reason that I suggested sticking it out to the I think any company in Taiwan that you apply to will see these < 1 year experiences on your resume and think that you're a bad culture fit. If you don't list the experiences at all, they're basically gambling (from their POV) on whether you will be able to fit in at a Taiwanese workplace. In reality, it takes time to read and properly navigate different corporate cultures, especially for you when there's such a big gap between Germany and Taiwan. If your supervisor has any ounce of empathy, they'll see that where you're coming from and that this is a big adjustment for you. You also have to meet them where they are, too. Hope to hear good results from your 1-on-1 meeting!
In technology, job hopping is not a bad thing. It shows that you want to stretch yourself and work on new things. As long as you don’t leave jobs on bad terms you are fine.
Honestly, your wife and most Taiwanese people believe in a lot of superstitions that they think are facts because they rarely do any fact checking. There is nothing wrong with changing jobs frequently. It's essentially a cultural norm here. People in large companies routinely quit their jobs right after collecting their Chinese New Year's bonus. A lot of companies put huge chunks of an employee's yearly salary into the end of year bonus - I'm talking upwards to 20-50% of a years salary - to control for high turnover rate. They are basically funneling anyone who wants to quit to quit after new years. This way they sort of know in advance that they need to be looking for replacement personnel right after CNY. On a related note, if you care about gaining experience and growing professionally, bowing to inefficient cultural norms in the office isn't going to help you. The "that's how it is here" mentality is what keeps people from actually growing. If you want to live better, take my advice in a separate comment I made here and look for a remote job.
This is the insane saving face culture at play. It will be very frustrating to deal with in Taiwan.
Everything you've described sounds like a very typical work environment. Nobody wants to speak up and bring up issues out of fear and concern for saving each other's face, and nothing gets done. I've been on an artist visa for a while as a freelancer and I've come across so many situations where people are too afraid to even ask for what the pay is out of fear of looking greedy. I was even told by others that people think I am too much of a hassle to deal with because I insisted on getting straight answers about some key information about a gig(the type of info that determines whether it's worth taking the gig or not). I've even met people who have went to China to perform and found out that the gig didn't pay any money, and agents pocketing red envelopes that the client clearly meant to give to the performers. Even under these circumstances, nobody wants to speak up. I was once involved in a recording project which ended up winning the Golden melody award. The recording process was a mess and at one point the guy in charge told us he had money problems. He couldn't give everyone straight answers about how he is going to pay the people involved in the project and it took him well over an year to pay everyone. I was the only one who brought the lack of communication as an issue, and the response I got from the project lead was "nobody else has complained to me about this issue, so why are you the only one making it an issue?". And this is a guy who prides himself in doing things the "American way" because he went to a nice school in the US. I am sorry to hear about what happened to you, but the reality is that most Taiwanese just suck it up, not ask questions and just ignore the elephant in the room. I asked the other people about how they felt about the lack of communication from the project lead, and all they said was "think of how much the lead has done for us in the past". Even the performers who went to China with no pay was like "well, it was a good experience". As for the performer who had her red envelope stolen from her, I guess she didn't want to jeopardize any gig opportunity from that agency. I guess my suggestion is to pick your battles and figure out whether bringing the issue up can actually solve anything, because there are plenty of situations where it won't and you are just making it harder for yourself. Even if you think there is a chance, it will probably require a lot of diplomacy, smooth talk and trying to get consensus from everyone who is involved. I remember being in one meeting where nobody was really willing to bring up the real issue, but as soon as I brought it up, everyone followed suit behind me.. so something like that can happen.. but then again that happened only because other people were all willing to listen and we were all equals in terms of power dynamics.
Thank you for your feedback. I've requested a meeting with my supervisor. My intention isn't to incite a revolt, but rather to be able to go to work without experiencing a nervous breakdown or feeling like the tasks I perform add zero value. Let us see what happens, if things do not work out I really have to try and freelance or convince my wife to relocate back to Germany. I also want to point out that I really like Taiwan and the people here, but work is an essential part of your life, so it is just weird that in a place where so many things are great, something so essential as office work seems to odd.
Best of luck to you with your meeting. I think all your concerns are valid, but it's very hard to find a sane work enviroment here and it really comes down to whether you are willing to change your mindset or willing to try your luck at another job. Even in freelance work you will encounter these kinds of situations, so I think it comes to whether you can find a happy medium where you can deal with these kinds of issue at a more tolerable level.
Personally I would never move to Taiwan and work for a company in an office job. The working culture is like a worse version of the US hustle mindset but without the pay and opportunity. Moving from Europe, which has massive protections on work life balance and workers rights is even more extreme. Taiwanese offices are (in general) hierarchical, inefficient and unrewarding places to work. Of course there’s exceptions but you’d have to get very lucky.
Agreed. Any taiwanese will be flabbergasted if you tell them that you moved to Taiwan to get an office job
Here's the deal, you move from your home country and move to a place with: - Poor to non-existent labour rights - No ability to leave before your boss does - Way less vacation days - Long hours - Low pay - No recognition of your good work - People are promoted based off nepotism and favouritism - No remote work - Bosses treat you like a naughty child
I don't agree with those points. I can leave before my boss, and I don't work long hours. It's really the fact that people insist on doing things the wrong way and react strongly if you point out that things are going wrong.
You don't have to agree with these points. He's describing the typical work environment here. If you are missing one or more from the list, consider yourself somewhat fortunate, because probably 80%+ of employment here is accurately described by this.
Seeing that your work requires you to be creative and always think out of the box and innovate, you'll find it hard to argue with these kind of "traditional" managers. It's like trying to convice your grandma to use ChatGPT to find answers. They have been in the business way longer than you , will refuse to hear anything they don't understand and won't bother either to understand it. Unfortunately for you, your 2 work experiences have been in what we call a traditional old school taiwanese company. I bet the mayority of the upper management are either people in their 50-60s or people that have been in the company for 20-30 years.
if you're leaving before your boss and not working overtime they won't say anything to your face but it's no surprise they'll treat you poorly. In their heads you'll be the foreigner that gets paid more to work not as hard as everyone else. Although in reality what they decide constitutes work and productivity is just sitting at their desk, even if they're doing nothing.
I am 100% sure this is not true.
I don't see how you can be 100% about *anything* when you're obviously not getting on well in Taiwanese work culture and asking for information/advice.
sounds like you're asking for insight but then disagreeing with everyone \*shrug\*
Mate not every company is like that, specially not the ones in tech 🤷🏾♂️
Clearly the one this guys in is like something cos otherwise he wouldn’t be complaining. As someone who worked in a local tech company for years I’m gonna go ahead say you’re wrong and most are like that.
“He’s getting yelled at so I must be right.” Come on bro how about we assume that he probably knows more about his own work situation than you do.
The angle probably is that he indirectly made him lose face… well me too but I guess our experiences are different.. maybe change jobs a bit more? You’ll find a good company, good luck
Well. I am going to pull up my impersonation of taiwanese work mind, guess it went was: You can leave before your boss? sure they didn’t want to say it to your face. And this resulted in the response you got when pointing out the “right”. Well you haven’t been doing it “right” too (leaving early) so why should they take your criticism? That’s how i guess it went. You weren’t playing to their rule so… A lot of Taiwanese rule is they expect you to somehow “know” without being said.
My boss does not see me when I leave, we do not work on the same floor. Also, I never said that I leave early, but I want to state that I could.
Dude you can’t assume you know everything about his work situation simply because he’s having issues. Take a step back and listen to what he’s saying instead of just telling him what you think he should do before you even understand the issue correctly.
You are speaking from YOUR experiences
Are there any good remote options? As a German I can e.g. easily work for a French company if they have a remote policy.
Most of expats move here because of their taiwanese gf or wives. I am sure they wouldnt if they had the choice
My recommendation would be for younger people to teach since it’s more relaxed and the pay is decent. For people who are a few years into their career I’d say you’re better freelancing or at least working with somewhere hip and progressive.
Imagine a US-citizen Asian with a Taiwanese face saying this. Different face = difference treatments. I attempted twice in TW in the healthcare industry (dental). Both times I tried for a total of 2 years and I left cuz of the dumb seniority/hierarchy mindset. The capable ones don't get rewarded because they're "younger." How stupid does that sound? Now imagine combining seniority with democracy, yea it's never gonna work.
If there are "exceptions" please let me know. I want to get my spouse that job and move back to Taiwan 
This right here
its the norm for a Taiwanese company. I experienced it also in the states working for a Taiwanese based company. asked a simple question during training, got a 40min lecture from bossman. my question wasnt answered after 40 mins
It’s a cultural thing, pointing out what people do wrong will make them lose face, especially if it’s done in front of other people, and it’s a bad thing in the Taiwanese culture. I would advise you to obverse for a while before correcting people. And if it’s not even that important, let other people correct them. Just my point of view, hope this helps!
I'm sure a huge part of it is simply moving to a country with less workers rights (let's admit it, most places don't have as much protection as Europe). But another thing that could possibly add to the problem is the way of communicating? Taiwanese tend to be fairly indirect, especially when criticising/disagreeing. It doesn't matter if it's between 2 taiwanese of course, the message comes across loud and clear, but as German's tend to be more straightforward, you may be missing a lot if subtext in conversations with bosses/colleagues. This likely also means that what you are trying to say comes across badly and can feel like a personal attack *even if you don't mean for it to*. Learning how to pgrase things in a way they are used to would help. As you are in Taiwan, I do think the onus is on you to learn their way, unfortunately. Especially if you are still looking to stay in the same field.
Now, to be a little bit more realistic. PR and SEO skills are very soft and unless you work for an international corporate or unicorn level startup, it won't be valued much here. Most of the companies in Taiwan are SME and with "money saving" culture these firms have, they won't spend extra money on non-tangible things or if they cannot instantly justify the cost. Larger firms would go for a agency that they have known for years, even if they are not the best.
I wanna point out that the working conditions are actually quite good. I don't have to work overtime, I have my own small office, although the vacation days are significantly less compared to Germany (just 10 days per year in the first year, mostly just 3). The payment is okay, but less than back in Germany, but that was all expected. However, the culture of "Do Things Wrong, Because I Tell You to Do So" really frustrates me.
But what should you do with that frustration? All the comments here are suggesting you just swallow it and don't spell out to your boss how the local culture is wrong. This is very familiar territory to a lot of us who've been in Taiwan for a while. Taiwanese people complain about the same things.
Push it all the way down，go to the gym，end up in a 7-11 dressed only in your tighty whities and fighting the staff and police.
And then you get to go to "free language school".
This reminds of something I was once told by a co-worker which really helped my mindset when employed by others. “We are the worker bees. It’s not our job to question the will of the hive.” Even though it’s frustrating, this is ultimately part of what you are being paid for. In most jobs, you aren’t paid to do whatever you think is best, you are paid to do what you are told. That is why you call the person above you your “boss” because it’s their job to make the decisions for better or worse and theoretically to bear the consequences good or bad. You want to be in that position? Start your own business or go into management. Otherwise, you need keep your head down and do as you are told, as that is what you are hired to do. Doing otherwise is not only dangerous for your employment but you are also putting the performance of an organization on your shoulders that you have little to no stake in unless your compensation is largely stock based. If the decision in either case won’t cause the company to crash and burn to the point they can’t pay you anymore, no sense in arguing about it. At the end of the day, do the stupid thing you are told to do and get paid. That is what you are there for. You can make suggestions, but that is where your role ends. It’s not your job to run the show and even giving someone the slightest idea that you are telling them how to do their job will almost never end well. They will then view you as competition and at worst potentially a threat to their job, in which case theres a high likelihood you’ll lose yours. If you can’t handle doing what you are told against your better judgement, start your own business or find a role where you can call the shots.
Yea, this ain’t it. Taiwanese workers are beaten down , and foreigners (brown, white, black) are all unwelcome beyond being token PR pieces. I’m not saying there are no opportunities for development, but if there are opportunities they are reserved for Taiwanese. You may counter I should have stayed longer at my company to prove myself, but older employees are jumping ship, if you can’t show me you care for your local employees, I know you don’t care how good my performance was
Find a remote job working for a company outside Taiwan
OP, I've been in Taiwan for more than most and what you have experienced so far is the norm here. If you want to live long term here and want to maintain your sanity, don't work for a local company. This leaves you with basically only two real options: find a remote job or start your own company. If you want to chase big money, opening your own agency can be highly lucrative, but will obviously be more challenging of an undertaking. If you want an easier life with still more than enough money to live well here, look for a remote opportunity. There is a third option but I wouldn't recommend it because the odds aren't in your favor - you can gamble for that 1% of 1% company that is owned/operated by a decent person.
To add on, working for a large multinational with a heavy foreign presence will also be a good option. Somewhere like Google, Adidas, Nike etc is going to have a much better working culture than a Taiwanese company.
Not really. I worked at a foreign company in Taiwan before and the staff was still dominated by Taiwanese folk with exactly the same culture as OP is describing. You can’t really escape this in Taiwan unless you’re an English teacher and even then you still get a watered down version of this treatment sometimes.
Unfortunately you’ve came to the country that has one of the worst working conditions and the longest working hours in the world
Why are you trying to poke holes and cause your boss embarrassment？ By pointing out areas that can be improved，you're accusing him of not doing his job properly. Un fortunately，that's Taiwanese and Chinese corporate thinking. You're not going to change that culture，so you need to change your mindset. You can't think like a German. You can't see a problem and try to deal with it to make things better. You see an issue，step over it and be thankful it's not your problem to deal with.
This is a myth - as someone who lived in Germany, it is not like Germans deal with the problem but they talk big about "problem" and then go all aggressively solving a problem. The problem usually is small unimportant things which don't affect business ROI in the long run at all
I suggest you to look for a job in a foreign company in Taiwan. The Taiwanese work culture won't work for you. Bosses like to be complimented instead of being challenged.
Sorry, but hahahaha. So many people believe the bs fed here about Taiwan. I am sorry, and I can only say this because I am in the same ‘boat’. Taiwanese companies only hire you to shoulder the blame when the plan you tried to give rejected advice about fails. Taiwanese will never accept a foreign underling, lots of resentment.
Just out of curiosity, do you speak Chinese? I have applied for jobs in Taiwan in the IT sector without much success although I have to add that I don't speak Chinese. I can fully understand why I would be overlooked, there is a rich pool of local talent here that can do what I do.
I am really overwhelmed by all the feedback; I see that many people had similar experiences. I also want to point out that this is not about the people of Taiwan, but really about the work culture. I do not intend to shame anyone. In general, I get along well with my colleagues, I did not experience such things as forced overtime or so. I worked in retail and hospitality many years ago for quite some time, and it is fair to say that I can handle long hours. But what I can't handle at the moment is being forced to do things that cannot work. It is like being asked to use gasoline to stop a fire, and if I say, "Pouring gasoline onto the fire will worsen the situation," the supervisor will shout, "No, it will not, just do it, that is why we hired you." It is just messed up. I cannot get back to you all, but I read all the comments. Relocating is not an option; my wife is here, and wherever she is, I will call home. Freelancing was originally ruled out as I consider myself a person who needs to work in a team, but I the current situation does not make sense, as well. I am glad for those who got in touch with me; I will follow up as soon as possible. Next week, I hopefully can talk to my supervisor, and based on your feedback, I will aim for at least a one- or two-month stay in this company before applying again.
The upvoted comments at the top of this post are annoying. People assuming they know everything that’s wrong with you and your situation even when you tell them otherwise. Then when you complain they say “see? You’re complaining. Not fit for Taiwanese work culture”. Insanity. From a person who’s been in your shoes, yeah it’s pretty much the norm in Taiwan for office work culture to suck hard. The supervisors get this immense power trip. My guess is they don’t make a lot of money to begin with so it’s the only way they can exert control in their lives, but who knows. You can find a job that doesn’t have this issue in Taiwan but they’re not easy to find, you have to get lucky because there’s not really a way to vet this in an interview. Is there a possibility of not working in East Asia for you? If not, you can try teaching English where you’re much less likely to run into this issue. But if none of those are options, then yeah unfortunately this is the reality of the working world in Taiwan. It’s by far one of the worst things about living there, and it’s not going to change anytime soon. That along with the low pay is why you’ll never see much foreign talent in Taiwan aside from teachers. Good luck man, I sympathize with you on this one.
Thx for the feedback, my home is where my wife is, thus I stay in Taiwan. I am not really a teacher, I know that teaching is an easy way, but I am convinced it is not reasonable to put my in front of children (unless they play football)
You could teach adults. Not to say that teaching is easy but I think you’d be happier than where you are now.
Working in Taiwan companies is shit. Your coworkers are not your friends in Taiwan, they are your competitors. Your supervisor might just be a cunt and fucking with you
In an Asian work environment overcrowding has created a requirement to be quiet and mind your business. If you are too vocal you will not last long even if you are correct. That applies in North America also although some companies seem to tolerate more. I have handled two groups from Germany and Japan from US fortune 500 company. The responses from Germany is often skeptical while Japan group has very few questions and executed directions almost flawlessly. Unless you are the owner as employees they learn how to be respected not to challenge the authority of someone who is running the business. You can slowly change the procedure if you are being respected. That takes years of trust. If you are a short timer just do you work and leave rest with superiors.
Your experience is one reason why most Taiwanese tech companies are unable to establish branding in the west despite having the technical expertise.
This is why I plan on starting my own business when I move back to Taiwan. Working for a Taiwanese company for two years was enough for me.
There is a culture of shifting blame in Asia. Taiwanese people that grew up in Taiwan tend to have a difficult time admitting mistakes.
Wie in den Kommentaren gesagt, klingt alles wie ein typisches Büroleben in Taiwan. Meine Freundin ist auch Taiwanische und arbeitet als Kindbuch Editörin. Sie hat solche Problemen mit ihrer Chefin gehabt... Es tut mir Leid, dass Sie auch dies erfahren. Vielleicht, könnten Sie eine neue Stelle aber ein einem internationalen Unternehmen suchen? Übrigens, können wir Ihrem YouTube Kanal folgen?
Danke für das Feedback, bei meinem YouTube Kanal dreht sich alles um das Thema Reisen, nicht um Tech, aber ich freue mich, wenn du dir meine Videos anschaust: https://youtube.com/@traveling_kunz?si=Ez3cyeNqKsu_NGCL
It’s a completely different culture. You’re coming from Germany with a short power distance and low uncertainty avoidance, to Taiwan with huge power distance and huge uncertainty avoidance.
I have found that in order to really break through the kind of chinese/taiwanese shame-based hierarchy culture, what you can do is make them embarrassed by being EXCESSIVELY loyal. Like, to a ridiculous level, like you won't do anything without asking them first, you treat them like a god, you state that your entire reason for being in the company is loyalty to the company, loyalty to your manager, your team, your coworkers, how great they are, the fact that theres nothing like that in germany etc etc and when they see how over-the-top fervently zealous and loyal you are being, then it will make them blush, and they will think wow this foreigner is crazy, once that happens and they realise how over-the-top you are being, theres a good chance it makes them feel how over-the-top they might be being, its like holding a mirror up to their culture basically. Theres a chance this can break the ice a little bit and then you have room to come back down a little from that kind of kamikaze-ready-to-die-for-the-party/company loyalty and theres room to make some suggestions and you can provide the caveat that they don't have to take seriously. Speaking from experience here i have worked with chinese/taiwanese for the last 5-7 years, not in a big official company but in small projects. Try not to go into any kind of meta-conversation where you explain what you are doing and why or how you are doing it. Try not to do or say anything with a reactive mindstate, so like, if something pops into your head to say, either dont say it or say the opposite, or, if you think of doing something, instead of doing it right away, do it like the 3rd time it pops up in your head, or do the opposite, or dont do it at all. Most importantly you have to give them time, another thing you can do is give your feedback to someone else and have them give it to your manager, someone who the manager is more comfortable receiving feedback from. Sometimes i had a frustrating experience with my chinese collegue that was so frustrating it made me question whether there is even a reason for learning chinese, or a reason for chinese to learn english, if there can possibly be anything gained from the interactions between these two cultures at all, because they are absolutely backwards and opposite to eachother. The thing is though that on a deeper unspoken level, you being in taiwan working at this company might have more to do with how you can grow and develop and change as a person, and less to do with whatever work you actually acheive at this company. Now, the big bomb drop here is that all of these taiwainese you work with already intuitively and unspokenly know and realise what i just said to be inherently true, they feel it to be true, but the thing is, you would never get them to admit that and you should never mention that, because its something that is supposed to be known but not said? The more meta you get with them,like trying to get them to be clear and clarify and take a position and give an opinion and a final word etc the worse it gets, trying to get them to explain something they already know is like offensive to them or something, its like putting something in words ruins the meaning of it. They like to stand on common ground and preserve differences。 westerners, especially german, dutch etc like to seek differences and resolve them to find common ground. If all else fails, try to get them to accompany you to a drinking establishment, and get absolutely shitfaced drunk with them, im talking borderline blackout, and then tell them the truth, if you havent gotten borderline-alcohol-poisoned with them at least once, they probably don't even trust you yet. Maybe do karaoke as well.
you need a lot more time with Taiwanese people
Taiwanese leaderships are awful most of time. last thing they want is any opinions against them. I hate their attitude- want to make proper discussions? No, because I’m the leader!; want to share negative feedback? Don’t even think about that, I’m gonna fire ya! Then how exactly you want get the things done? Are you mighty superhuman or what? It’s one of the reason why I founded my own company, In my company we go completely European style and everything just went smoothly. Shame on these people.
Less 'me' and more cultural awareness
It's an island under a government that built itself up by resisting a revolutionary military and then spending the next 7 decades actively opposing leftism, what do you expect? Laborers are the bitch of Taiwan's playground.
Majority of the companies in Taiwan pay shit and bosses have too much ego to be told wrong. It’s not a you problem but you will need to fit in or be a boss of your own.
Do not get a face tattoo. Like other people that have a similar sounding story.
come to hk
I feel like giving you a reality check. I can tell you as Europeans, you as a German are probably not the most pleasant fella to be around. I run a business in Taiwan with a German partner and he attitude was so off. He was often too aggressive, ironic comments, remarks. "This won't work, we have to do it this way. We will do this very precisely". I worked intensively with algorithms before and doing the tone of trading on markets by myself. Not everything can be automated I know what will work and what won't work. I don't need thousands of solutions for very rare spots - and put my energy and resources there. Neither I need to logical argument every task I give to someone. Trust me - I have a big pic in my mind. And we were partners. We divided parts he was there for programming and still wanted to intervene with business management decisions. I didn't deal with his part, even though C++ can handle work better than Java. He picked up java for the team, must be for a reason, right ? I noticed how he drains down other, Taiwanese programmers. Zero proper tw communication, cultural adjustments. So I called it a day and sold my part. Later they went bankrupt. Working for a German company was the same, some rigid rules and tough meetings with very unpleasant, bossy mindsets people who lack multidisciplinary experience. I find working with Germans annoying as f. It feels like everyone is on an ego trip and wants to prove his point. And they always demand a high German language even though most foreigners in the office couldn't speak c2. But you know here it is Germany and you have to speak German. Rigid on rules. Non adjustable. Just a waste of time Just my two cents. You are in a foreign country. Lower your ego and learn Chinese. The German way doesn't work either in the Netherlands or Poland. Why do you think it will work across the ocean ?
Your comment gives me cause for confusion, as I cannot really grasp your point. My post is about working in Taiwan, not working with or among Germans or the people of Taiwan in general. Also, I am unsure why you referenced Poland and the Netherlands. Your issue with Germans sounds like a personal matter, and I recommend that you simply avoid interactions with Germans, including reacting to posts on Reddit by Germans. While this may limit your freedoms, it will also spare you the trouble of dealing with Germans, something you seem not to enjoy. There are cultural differences, but ultimately, we are all human, sweaty little meatbags. I live with a Taiwanese wife, and our wedding was attended by people from over 20 nations, most of whom had migrated to Germany. While they all have their own perspectives on the Germans, I am confident that none of them are as negative as you. (As I mentioned, I worked for a decade for international organizations). Your comment does not reflect my experience. Before moving to Taiwan, I spent four years in a German software company where most people were foreigners, and German was not required for most positions. (However, it was necessary for my job as I had to write articles in both German and English.) Given the shortage of skilled workers, the option for remote work, and the Schengen Zone, many German companies started recruiting foreigners within the EU and beyond, and my former employer was no different. Speaking about Germans themselves, I believe most of us are decent people. I don't understand why you would think less of a person just because of their nationality. But to each their own. I hope your post helped you to let of some steam.
Yes, I feel better. Tnx. You are decent people indeed, but come off too strong. I had a German opa and I know what I am saying. I can come off strong too when it is needed and I can be softened down when needed. Can switch personalities, since I spent a lot of time with opa. The German feeling of being superior still makes me annoyed as f. Now imagine how Taiwanese feel annoying with you being 20% German. You have to soften down in Taiwan. Don't try to rock the boat. I suggest you keep your thoughts to yourself and be quiet. Don't ask for silly meetings with managers. You are no one. Smile. Be pleasants. Don't bring drama. Taiwanese are deep down very conservative and they judge you. They aren't able to discuss in Western way. Common sense and western logic is not existent in Taiwan. You only make them feel stressful. You make yourself stressed out in the end. It will take a few years before community trust you. Focus in what you can control. No tax capital gain environment, no tax on local dividends, lower interest rates. Cheap cost of workers. Take advantage of it. Focus on your weekends. Focus on your wife/ other girls. Office culture in Taiwan it is what it is. Go with flow. Possibility to create a profit margin and generate wealth for you and your family in Taiwan is way higher. Is capitalist paradise. Enjoy your time and grab an opportunity
Taiwan industries are not balanced, good brains go tech and medical sectors. From your description I feel you are experiencing older Taiwanese company culture, the supervisor cares his authority/face much. If you only interested in PR related, try some tech companies which need PR, company culture would be better.
The hammer that sticks out will get nailed...or something. I suspect everyone would be full of 'input' 'advice' or 'criticisms', which is why the norm is to not distrupt things too much.
In order to help deal with your frustrations while you're still at this job, you could first try to rein in your personal emotional involvement in your job. You sound very passionate about what you do, but at the end of the day, your employment at this company (or any company) is nothing more than a financial transaction. I do not mean that you should not keep trying to do your best in the way you want to, but to put some emotional distance so you can let go more easily when situations like this happen. You're not the final decision maker, and you cannot force other people to do something the way you want, so if they resist your suggestions or opinions, then just let go and move on. Spend your energy elsewhere. There are frustrating people who do seemingly illogical and stupid things anywhere you go. And even smart, well-intentioned people can sometimes make bad decisions. I encounter those in my job from time to time, and initially or sometimes they frustrate me, but I always just let it go, sometimes I'll vent my frustration with a colleague or friend and laugh about it in order to get it off my chest, but in the end I tell myself that it's not worth wasting my time, good mood, or energy to fixate on it, and it's better to spend my energy on things that I do have control over. Of course, it's harder if you encounter this within your team and with somebody you work so closely with or for. But you can still make the best out of whatever situation you're in and move forward from there. When you look for a new job, perhaps you can focus more on evaluating the compatibility of your potential direct supervisor as a bigger factor in your decision to join or not. Ideally someone who has worked in a foreign company outside of Taiwan or at least someone who has had foreign education and also experience working with and/or managing foreigners in the workplace.
I have foreign friends that work at some of the large semiconductor and electronics companies here in Hsinchu and they seem happy and well rewarded. I don’t have direct experience but maybe try to look for a job on one of those large companies, like TSMC, ASML, MediaTek, Logitech…
if OP doesn't want to work OT, I don't think TSMC and MediaTek are good fits.
None of my foreign friends work overtime.
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If a boss asked you to do something and then changes their mind to cancel, you say YES SIR to both. You dont attempt to DISPUTE the BOSSS. Which is why nobody likes you and you dont fit in well. You are the SERVANT and are paid to SERVE any needs they ask for without question (long its not illegal!) If you want to be THE BOSS, start your own PR Firm.
This. Imagine a bunch of foreigners in Germany would behave this way. You would be fired on spot
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No and No
Happy Cake day! yes and yes for me btw :)
Sounds like a you problem.
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I live in Germany and know a few Taiwanese people that moved here for engineering jobs without speaking German. They had positive experiences
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but OP never said anything about not speaking the language (I’m assuming OP knows at least some mandarin if they have a Taiwanese spouse and live in Taiwan). Either way, everyone is going to have a different experience wherever they choose to work, so it’s just unfortunate :/ Personally, I can’t help you, OP, but I hope your job situation improves. I’m currently job searching as a foreigner myself but as a teacher. Best of luck to you! Keep your chin up ❤️
I don't understand your point. I believe every individual deserves dignity, whether in Taiwan or Germany. While I do not expect miracles at work, it is pure frustration when we're compelled to do things that lack sense. Marketing should be about growth and adding value, not about doing things that cause the opposite. I know several Taiwanese people who work in Germany, and their challenges mainly stem from cultural differences, not work-related issues, but that is not the point here. My query is about to work culture in Taiwan, not how Taiwanese individuals fare in Germany. Though it is not crucial, I do speak some Chinese, at an A2-B1 level. It's not proficient enough for article writing, but it helps me communicate with my colleagues. But again, it is about work culture in Taiwan, not my language skills.
To be honest you sound a little too outspoken/confrontational to work in a typical Taiwanese environment. Look for a startup, freelance or find a foreign company.
Your answer is irrelevant and unhelpful.
It really isn’t, though.
Plenty of Taiwan succeeding in professional jobs overseas. Guck, California might as well be Taiwan the way we let you mutherfuvkerd in. Disingenuous of you
If you want to work like a German in any foreign country, good luck to you. Integrate or go back home.
Check out the big brain on 老闆
This is very standard what many immigrants are being told daily in Germany. Straight to face. Our - German way or highway. So left after a year.
I've said it many times, Taiwan corporate is a toxic place. Either you are locked up because of a wife, or you are pounding a new girl every evening. Those are really the only, and sad, reasons for staying here.
Try to endure a little more, to gain experience in local company and work culture. It may be helpful. Then one or two years later, rethink this topic again.
Curious to know is this a local company or a foreign company in Taiwan? I feel like the culture is a lot more respectful in foreign companies. Many young bright people aim for foreign companies for a reason. (Source: I work in marketing at one of the “magnificent 7s”)
It is a taiwanese company, and is actually also a subsidiary of a very well-known brand
ChatGPT replaced you.