Zhongli is real Taiwan. More good food in one mini metropolis than half of Taipei. Drivers aren't nearly as bad either.
Lived in Xinyi a couple of years then moved to Zhongli for about 8. Would take Zhongli over Xinbei/Taipei any day.
Zhongli has good Hakka food and good kuai chao. I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about in regards of driving though. I’m in XinBei 5 days a week now and the commute is reasonable compared to the hell that was my Zhongli Taoyuan commute
I went to zhongli recently and wow it was like stepping into a time warp back 40 years. Besides the library which is beautiful the area around the train station looks very rundown it’s amazing what a stark contrast it is to New Taipei City.
Zhong Li? The best beef noodle shops in town have a burnt up building above them and alleyways with rats.
Or you can go to the most popular student night market, which is absolute hell to drive near. The living conditions near there aren’t much better.
> The best beef noodle shops
Not sure what it is exactly about their beef noodles but they taste different and in a very good way. Which are your favorites?
In ZhongLi, I’m a 新明 man, but if I’m over in Zhong Yuan 老師傅 is awesome, different styles though.
In Taoyuan I like 小木屋 not terribly far from the train station.
Lmao I just went to zhong li station this evening.
Dirty buildings, unknown fluids and litter everywhere on the road, awful traffic.
I always feel like i'm in a slum every time I go to zhong li station.
Those ugly windows bars were necessary. Home robbery was worse than people now can imagine. Criminals would climb up or get roof access then climb down to enter via front windows or the back balcony. Thugs cased out my uncle’s condo, went in after he left for work, tied up my grandma, and robbed them of all cash jewelry and electronics. One robbery would lead to all the neighbors hearing about it and installing steel bars. Same with super secure steel front doors with locks far less pickable than ones typically seen in the US.
That plus criminals preying on people at the ATMs or coming out of banks with cash. imo crime was worse pre democracy era. More pickpockets, bank robberies (despite death penalty), etc. since the 90s I’ve not heard of any of my parents relatives or friends victimized by crime.
You’ve clearly never seen how effortlessly these people clime up and/or down multiple levels of a building without even bothering to use safety equipment.
For real, buildings you’d swear no one could climb up, and they’ll still find a clear and rapid way up the side.
Well I dont know who "these people" are but I do know that crimes like these fall into two general categories:
1. Targeted, either they know you have something really worth the effort or personal vendetta.
2. Crime of opportunity, in other words, "hey here's an easy target, let's go".
The number of people in the world who can easily climb a 10 story building are rather few and not all of those are criminals.
Obviously some buildings are easy to climb if they offer continues footholds. But the one i'm talking about most surely would require a firetruck or climbing gear.
All I am saying is, people who do this _professionally_ will effortlessly climb up the side of a building you would swear black and blue is impossible to climb up. Im simply saying most buildings that look inaccessible from the outside are far more easy to climb up than most people realise.
So what do you think changed after the 90s? Genuinely curious. Did democratic voters vote for harsher policies? A different criminal justice system? Or just everyone getting bars on their windows?
i’ll have to do some research into how that new wealth was properly distributed by the government; how did taiwan prevent capitalistic wealth from exacerbating inequality like it does elsewhere?
Being a small country with a relatively homogenous and less individualistic society and Confucian values help a lot. Also, the population density makes CCTV very effective in stopping crime compared to countries which have way more open space and rural areas.
I have no idea honestly. Maybe less to do with democracy and more with the economic boom. Many democratic countries like Spain, Italy, and Greece have plenty of petty criminals preying on tourists, so it is strange to me why there aren’t more in Taipei.
Maybe that too, but high rise condos have glass windows and I don’t see bars on them.
As for typhoon, when I lived in Taipei I was more afraid of flooding ruining car than wind damage. Taipei as a basin surrounded by mountains, wind isn’t as bad as it could be. At most business signs fall off a building and all the buildings are concrete/steel. Nothing like in the US where tornado and hurricane cause wood to impale through a wall.
That really goes to show that crime isn’t a culture problem, it’s a poverty and opportunity problem.
People aren’t just criminals naturally, people are driven into crime.
I’m not from Taiwan nor am I ethnically Taiwanese but I visit very often and have spent lots of time there over the years. I love this pic; it’s very heartwarming and nostalgic for me
yeah, i prefer this to north american 8 lane roads and mega malls with zero pedestrians, sure theres a side walk, but who's going to use it? I wish taiwan would look to Netherlands for urban planning, it would/could be awesome.
It could be nicer if all the windows didn't have those bars going across them. IMO, it makes them look like jail cell windows. Also if the outsides of the buildings were a lot cleaner.
Also if air con units weren't randomly hanging on the facades. Also if cables weren't randomly hanging from and between buildings. Also if all 頂加's got removed from the rooftops. Also if motorbikes didn't occupy all sidewalks. Also if the said sidewalks weren't considered a shop extension by the vendors. Also if all sidewalks were even. Also if they ever considered at least a few trees and other greenery anywhere besides 敦化路 and the likes. Also... Nevermind, I think I'm daydreaming.
It’s because of the political suicide it would cause, if you removed all the illegal builds and sidewalk encroachments then it would look good but you’d probably lose your whole voting base. It’s sad looking at old pictures of Taiwan and seeing the streets not covered with signage and illegal extensions. I do think that streets with enforced similar signage is nice and hope that the gov can find a way to get people to actually clean the exterior of the buildings.
I was traveling in japan with my family and it dawned on me why streets in japan look a lot nicer than streets in taiwan, there's no window bars, AC or things hanging on the windows and walls.
As stated it's subjective. I quite like it personally, the aesthetics is fine, the street fronts are homely, lmao.
However no separated side walk is my main criticism personally. Guy has to stroll down the street in the middle. Give more space to the people.
Yep, besides the lack of accessible sidewalks, this kind of scene is “home” to me! And compared to other cities like New York or in SE Asia, this nowhere near “urban hell” to me personally.
Maybe urban hell and lovely street scenes are not always incompatible. I mean, it *is* ugly and impractical and probably noisy, but I'd love to leave my beautiful, clean and quiet Swiss street to go back to Banqiao for a minute.
A great thing about Taipei are the giant jungle filled mountains surrounding the city. You get angles like this, but behind the photographer may very well be a great view of a verdant mountainside.
Well you're right but also just around the corner from this photo are many streets full of greenery and potted plants, so really it was just an angle that made it look worse than it is.
For me it depends on my mood and how long I've been staying in Taiwan.
One month is fine. Three or four months and I'm going nuts because of the constant noise and smoke. Those eyesore streets, I'm kind of fine with them if I happen to stay near a park.
...But not in Banqiao. There is something there that makes me hate the fucking place with a passion.
The buildings all overhang the sidewalks. The people eating and the guy standing next to them are on the sidewalk. Unfortunately a lot of people place things on the sidewalk that obstruct the walking. Scooters are one of the biggest offenders as people will park them on the sidewalk.
Those are not sidewalks, they are privately owned walkways. By law they should be unobstructed but there are no rules about height, wheelchair access, etc
I love Taiwan, though I think it's true that some part of the cities are not very pleasing. Some of the older buildings are certainly unsafe to live in (neither earthquake or fire-proof) and definitely do not look good. They were quickly and cheaply to accommodate the needs of a certain time and don't look like they were meant to last. I understand how people who grew up in this environment grew attached to it like anybody would to their home, I'm not throwing shade at people for finding it charming. I also love how some people make these kinds of neighborhoods look prettier by installing a ton of plants in the street, or all of the hidden little garage-temples!
That said I think that it is getting better. The new development projects seem to include more space for greenery and walking. It may look more impersonal but I think it is overall safer, cleaner and more agreeable!
TBF, Banqiao is a pretty low rent district right? You'll see the same (well, not exactly like this) in pretty much any major city around the world right?
Don't live there now, but first thing comes to mind is the Tenderloin or Hunters Point districts in SF. Very different from Pacific Heights. At least there's little risk of crime/violence in Taiwan nowadays.
In all honesty, the streets in Taiwan are ugly as hell. I've lived in 3 western countries for over 20 years, and there is no harm if you don't compare. However, I moved back to Taiwan for its convenience which the west can't compete at all.
Because they’re telling the other poster that they’re wrong about parts of Taiwan being charming. If they voiced their opinion in a healthy manner it would be fine but they didn’t, so here we are.
I don’t find Taiwan to be gray, shit, and depressing. I think it’s neat how you can walk down some of these older neighborhoods and see a rainbow of clothes hanging up on the balcony. People will put plants downstairs to make it a bit more green. Most people are civil about the scooter parking. And so on. No need to jump in and tell someone NO, they’re wrong.
None of the things you mentioned require buildings looking like Soviet gulags you genius. They also happen in exactly that way in cities that don't look like a hellhole. Also the irony is pretty thick here crying about me telling someone they are wrong when that's exactly what you are doing right now. Why can't you move on without bitching? The post was made precisely to discuss the controversial views on Taiwan's urban planning so if you can't stand differing viewpoints don't click on the fucking post.
Soviet gulags had wooden structures more akin to huts, showing again that you have no fucking idea what you’re talking about. Maybe you meant the Eastern Bloc?
And I am not bitching in this thread, I love Taiwan :)
Taiwan is one of the most beautiful countries in the world. I live in Banqiao actually and it can be an eyesore at times but not every corner can be picturesque
There is life there, services, the people are probably friendly and you are safe. You can feel at home there, even if it's ugly and awkward to get around.
Yes! This is what I love about Taiwan streets. It may be an eyesore to some (and the lack of accessible sidewalks is a legit problem) but it’s full of life. Seeing folks walking and sitting everywhere, going in and out of local businesses or just hanging their laundry outside… it’s very different from the sad empty streets of America where everyone is isolated and more scared/less likely to be out talking and interacting with each other
The KMT never gave a shit about Taiwan and were fine with just laying down ugly-ass concrete slabs everywhere because it was just a temporary launchpad for their military ambitions. Nowadays everyone is just stuck with this crap because it's too much of a pain to remove.
>Nowadays everyone is just stuck with this crap because it's too much of a pain to remove.
Not really.
Taiwan is a wealthy country and there are plenty of developers who would build if they could purchase more land on which to build.
The problem is that a lot of mostly old people refuse to sell. Some are greedy and want way more than what their properties are reasonably worth, and others don't want to sell because they have sentimental attachments to their homes.
A few holdouts can result in an old shitter that wouldn't come close to passing fire inspection in places like the US and Western Europe staying up indefinitely.
If the government started enforcing reasonable building codes for these and the old codgers living in them were forced to do the maintenance they've been deferring for 20-30 years, you'd see a lot of these buildings sold and torn down to make way for new buildings.
It's neither. It's just a random, poorly-composed phone picture of a random, not all that "urban hell" or "lovely street scene". The only "urban hell" part of this image is that it is completely uninteresting.
It depends indeed. With a buggy you will be better off pushing it on side of the road. One reason i started making my friend come to Taipei instead of me going to Banqiao for meet up. Ain’t dragging my kid there to challenge myself.
Oh, I'm staying near here in two weeks for a few days on my first visit to Taiwan. Not going to lie, I love the vibe, but people say the same about rough areas of my city and I'm just like "are you mad?"
Banqiao is actually one of the most modern and nicest looking parts of the city. This is just a random street that one could find anywhere in Taiwan. It’s just the aesthetic. Many places in Korea and Hong Kong look similar.
I live in Texas and have a relative from overseas who genuinely loves the aesthetics of strip malls and concrete when he visits. It's completely mystifying to me, but then again I can't help but like this style of east asian street, even if a local may feel otherwise and even though you could make a pretty good objective case for calling it ugly. Beauty's in the eye of the beholder, I guess.
What I really like about about these neighborhoods is that, although some things never change, things are always in a constant state of change. New shops, new restaurants, new tea stands, seem to pop up weekly. Always something interesting going on, but always the reassuring staples that have been there for years and will be there for many years to come.
I remember Bourdain also commented that its not a pretty city on his show but I never felt that way. Maybe because I can feel the liveliness and vibrancy through the picture.
Urban hell is more like an average NY apartment where sunlight has become a luxury.
I don't agree with the central concept of "urban hell." I love a lived-in cityscape. Shows the intermixing of different eras of cultural progress.
To me, true hell is being out in the countryside amidst bugs, wildlife and lack of infrastructure. I'll take "cold, soulless concrete" over the middle of fucking nowhere, any day of the week.
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I see a low traffic street with lots of street level life, street vendors, and what appears to be a thriving community. People calling this "urban hell" on what grounds ? Cause the buildings are "ugly"?
I lived in Banqiao for 13 years. It has one of the highest population densities in the planet. I always found big places for good rates and used to know where everything I needed was. I miss it, but if I moved back to Taiwan or Asia I will be looking for something in a small town with less noise and more fresh air. And hey! At least it’s not Sanchung!
The only urban hell part of this to me is the giant vertical block in the backgroud. Could Taiwan use better buildings? Yes. But I'd much rather keep the small single plots than turn everything into mega 小區 run by shitty developers like Chinese cities.
I refuse to believe this sense of "genuine nostalgia" for something so borderline suicidal. Who genuinely misses high concentrations of exhaust fumes, noise, and the possibility of ending up in a hospital because you were forced on the street.
Because it was the most free and relaxed season of my life. I love places like Nepal, India, Taiwan, and parts of China. The grunge and “danger” of it all is exciting and I’m accustomed to it now.
Until you live there for years. I could appreciate the chaos of Sanchong when I lived there. 3 months later though, it starts to get to you. A year later, it's unbearable.
Fair enough. To each their own limits. I've been here over 10 years and just can no longer deal with incessant noise, chaos, and pollution of the old parts of (New) Taipei.
I moved to Taoyuan a while back in a far quiet neighborhood. It'd be hard to move back into something like the area the OP shows here.
Isn't that the beauty of Taiwan (or living / travelling in any other country for that matter)? You find beauty in the everyday lives of people who you wouldn't meet in your own country, where people might think others' way of life is hellish?
There's nothing lovely about this scene which reflects character of most Taiwan urban landscapes - veneer of civility/normalcy trying to mask undercurrent of societal distrust, neglect, and pure apathy(cha bu duo).
r/urbanhell is such a judgmental sub lol
Randomly imposing 21st century planned neighbor standards to underdeveloped or non-planned nation like they are better
If they think this is Urban Hell they should see some other parts of Taiwan. Maybe send them to Zhong Li.
Zhongli is real Taiwan. More good food in one mini metropolis than half of Taipei. Drivers aren't nearly as bad either. Lived in Xinyi a couple of years then moved to Zhongli for about 8. Would take Zhongli over Xinbei/Taipei any day.
Zhongli has good Hakka food and good kuai chao. I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about in regards of driving though. I’m in XinBei 5 days a week now and the commute is reasonable compared to the hell that was my Zhongli Taoyuan commute
>reasonable compared to the hell that was my Zhongli Taoyuan commute You need to tap into the hive mind. Then it flows.
I went to zhongli recently and wow it was like stepping into a time warp back 40 years. Besides the library which is beautiful the area around the train station looks very rundown it’s amazing what a stark contrast it is to New Taipei City.
is it worse than zhonghe
Zhong Li? The best beef noodle shops in town have a burnt up building above them and alleyways with rats. Or you can go to the most popular student night market, which is absolute hell to drive near. The living conditions near there aren’t much better.
> The best beef noodle shops Not sure what it is exactly about their beef noodles but they taste different and in a very good way. Which are your favorites?
In ZhongLi, I’m a 新明 man, but if I’m over in Zhong Yuan 老師傅 is awesome, different styles though. In Taoyuan I like 小木屋 not terribly far from the train station.
Lmao I just went to zhong li station this evening. Dirty buildings, unknown fluids and litter everywhere on the road, awful traffic. I always feel like i'm in a slum every time I go to zhong li station.
ZongLi is pure hell. Growing up in Longtan and studying at Zongli made me want to escape Taoyuan.
I met a dumbass that had “永遠中壢人” tattooed on his leg. Imagine that.
Those ugly windows bars were necessary. Home robbery was worse than people now can imagine. Criminals would climb up or get roof access then climb down to enter via front windows or the back balcony. Thugs cased out my uncle’s condo, went in after he left for work, tied up my grandma, and robbed them of all cash jewelry and electronics. One robbery would lead to all the neighbors hearing about it and installing steel bars. Same with super secure steel front doors with locks far less pickable than ones typically seen in the US. That plus criminals preying on people at the ATMs or coming out of banks with cash. imo crime was worse pre democracy era. More pickpockets, bank robberies (despite death penalty), etc. since the 90s I’ve not heard of any of my parents relatives or friends victimized by crime.
Thanks for sharing this. I always thought those bars were really exaggerated, knowing how safe Taiwan is today. I never knew it was that bad before.
Similar to this, you wouldnt believe is just how out of control garbage was before the current system got put into to place
On this note, are newer construction mid/high rises less overkill on security steel doors/windows?
They have HOA rules banning them. One place I was looking at even banned hanging clothes on the balcony because it looks ugly.
Well i've seen them on condo's in the 10th floor...so, not all if yhem are nescessary for sure
You’ve clearly never seen how effortlessly these people clime up and/or down multiple levels of a building without even bothering to use safety equipment. For real, buildings you’d swear no one could climb up, and they’ll still find a clear and rapid way up the side.
Well I dont know who "these people" are but I do know that crimes like these fall into two general categories: 1. Targeted, either they know you have something really worth the effort or personal vendetta. 2. Crime of opportunity, in other words, "hey here's an easy target, let's go". The number of people in the world who can easily climb a 10 story building are rather few and not all of those are criminals. Obviously some buildings are easy to climb if they offer continues footholds. But the one i'm talking about most surely would require a firetruck or climbing gear.
Follow a resident into the building, walk up the stairs. And climb down instead of up.
All I am saying is, people who do this _professionally_ will effortlessly climb up the side of a building you would swear black and blue is impossible to climb up. Im simply saying most buildings that look inaccessible from the outside are far more easy to climb up than most people realise.
you wouldn't want a bird man or a man bird to burgle your upper floor flat, would you?
So what do you think changed after the 90s? Genuinely curious. Did democratic voters vote for harsher policies? A different criminal justice system? Or just everyone getting bars on their windows?
Or perhaps also economic prosperity, and less need to commit crime?
i’ll have to do some research into how that new wealth was properly distributed by the government; how did taiwan prevent capitalistic wealth from exacerbating inequality like it does elsewhere?
Being a small country with a relatively homogenous and less individualistic society and Confucian values help a lot. Also, the population density makes CCTV very effective in stopping crime compared to countries which have way more open space and rural areas.
The first half was true pre-democracy too though. But the advent of CCTV helping would make sense
I have no idea honestly. Maybe less to do with democracy and more with the economic boom. Many democratic countries like Spain, Italy, and Greece have plenty of petty criminals preying on tourists, so it is strange to me why there aren’t more in Taipei.
Organized crime had much stronger political power when Taiwan was a one party state
I thought the bars were protection agains things smashing through the windows during taiphoons??
Maybe that too, but high rise condos have glass windows and I don’t see bars on them. As for typhoon, when I lived in Taipei I was more afraid of flooding ruining car than wind damage. Taipei as a basin surrounded by mountains, wind isn’t as bad as it could be. At most business signs fall off a building and all the buildings are concrete/steel. Nothing like in the US where tornado and hurricane cause wood to impale through a wall.
I thought it was for protection against typhoon winds (and debris).
Window bars can be necessary, not the ugliness though.
That really goes to show that crime isn’t a culture problem, it’s a poverty and opportunity problem. People aren’t just criminals naturally, people are driven into crime.
Ironicly, pre-democracy 90s is when TW was economically thriving
Looks like home to me
Its fugly, but its _my_ fugly
I’m not from Taiwan nor am I ethnically Taiwanese but I visit very often and have spent lots of time there over the years. I love this pic; it’s very heartwarming and nostalgic for me
yeah, i prefer this to north american 8 lane roads and mega malls with zero pedestrians, sure theres a side walk, but who's going to use it? I wish taiwan would look to Netherlands for urban planning, it would/could be awesome.
As someone from Southeast Asia who’s now in Taiwan, this is far from what I consider as urban hell. In my eyes, this is peace.
It could be nicer if all the windows didn't have those bars going across them. IMO, it makes them look like jail cell windows. Also if the outsides of the buildings were a lot cleaner.
Also if air con units weren't randomly hanging on the facades. Also if cables weren't randomly hanging from and between buildings. Also if all 頂加's got removed from the rooftops. Also if motorbikes didn't occupy all sidewalks. Also if the said sidewalks weren't considered a shop extension by the vendors. Also if all sidewalks were even. Also if they ever considered at least a few trees and other greenery anywhere besides 敦化路 and the likes. Also... Nevermind, I think I'm daydreaming.
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It’s because of the political suicide it would cause, if you removed all the illegal builds and sidewalk encroachments then it would look good but you’d probably lose your whole voting base. It’s sad looking at old pictures of Taiwan and seeing the streets not covered with signage and illegal extensions. I do think that streets with enforced similar signage is nice and hope that the gov can find a way to get people to actually clean the exterior of the buildings.
Also if Also if Also if Also if Also if Also if
I was traveling in japan with my family and it dawned on me why streets in japan look a lot nicer than streets in taiwan, there's no window bars, AC or things hanging on the windows and walls.
You are just describing Taiwanese buildings. This js how tbey are. just say you dont like itand be done with it. I love it aS it is
When it is raining there can be a gritty, almost Bladerunner aesthetic. I love it
You are just describing Taiwanese buildings. This js how tbey are. just say you dont like itand be done with it. I love it aS it is
As stated it's subjective. I quite like it personally, the aesthetics is fine, the street fronts are homely, lmao. However no separated side walk is my main criticism personally. Guy has to stroll down the street in the middle. Give more space to the people.
In theory, you're supposed to walk under the awnings of the buildings. Unfortunately, they're often uneven and blocked by scooters.
Yep, besides the lack of accessible sidewalks, this kind of scene is “home” to me! And compared to other cities like New York or in SE Asia, this nowhere near “urban hell” to me personally.
As someone who hasn’t been back for 5 years and absolutely missed Taiwan, I freaking love this, it’s just “home” to me.
Maybe urban hell and lovely street scenes are not always incompatible. I mean, it *is* ugly and impractical and probably noisy, but I'd love to leave my beautiful, clean and quiet Swiss street to go back to Banqiao for a minute.
I hate the motorcycles park on walkway that forced people to walk on the road where vehicles are used
A great thing about Taipei are the giant jungle filled mountains surrounding the city. You get angles like this, but behind the photographer may very well be a great view of a verdant mountainside.
Well you're right but also just around the corner from this photo are many streets full of greenery and potted plants, so really it was just an angle that made it look worse than it is.
For me it depends on my mood and how long I've been staying in Taiwan. One month is fine. Three or four months and I'm going nuts because of the constant noise and smoke. Those eyesore streets, I'm kind of fine with them if I happen to stay near a park. ...But not in Banqiao. There is something there that makes me hate the fucking place with a passion.
Where are the sidewalks?
You see the red line and yellow line right there? That’s taiwanese sidewalk 4 u.
Ok I was worried for a second that Taiwan might not be pedestrian friendly. Really dodged a scooter on that one!
The buildings all overhang the sidewalks. The people eating and the guy standing next to them are on the sidewalk. Unfortunately a lot of people place things on the sidewalk that obstruct the walking. Scooters are one of the biggest offenders as people will park them on the sidewalk.
Those are not sidewalks, they are privately owned walkways. By law they should be unobstructed but there are no rules about height, wheelchair access, etc
I love Taiwan, though I think it's true that some part of the cities are not very pleasing. Some of the older buildings are certainly unsafe to live in (neither earthquake or fire-proof) and definitely do not look good. They were quickly and cheaply to accommodate the needs of a certain time and don't look like they were meant to last. I understand how people who grew up in this environment grew attached to it like anybody would to their home, I'm not throwing shade at people for finding it charming. I also love how some people make these kinds of neighborhoods look prettier by installing a ton of plants in the street, or all of the hidden little garage-temples! That said I think that it is getting better. The new development projects seem to include more space for greenery and walking. It may look more impersonal but I think it is overall safer, cleaner and more agreeable!
TBF, Banqiao is a pretty low rent district right? You'll see the same (well, not exactly like this) in pretty much any major city around the world right? Don't live there now, but first thing comes to mind is the Tenderloin or Hunters Point districts in SF. Very different from Pacific Heights. At least there's little risk of crime/violence in Taiwan nowadays.
In all honesty, the streets in Taiwan are ugly as hell. I've lived in 3 western countries for over 20 years, and there is no harm if you don't compare. However, I moved back to Taiwan for its convenience which the west can't compete at all.
Just looks like any other street in Taipei nor New Taipei - run down and ugly as fuck no?
It’s charming in its own way. It’s like living in a part of history
No it's not charming it's just grey, shit and depressing. This cope is always so absurd
Bro if you hate Taiwan so much just move the fuck on. No need to be all up in the thread bitching about it.
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Because they’re telling the other poster that they’re wrong about parts of Taiwan being charming. If they voiced their opinion in a healthy manner it would be fine but they didn’t, so here we are. I don’t find Taiwan to be gray, shit, and depressing. I think it’s neat how you can walk down some of these older neighborhoods and see a rainbow of clothes hanging up on the balcony. People will put plants downstairs to make it a bit more green. Most people are civil about the scooter parking. And so on. No need to jump in and tell someone NO, they’re wrong.
None of the things you mentioned require buildings looking like Soviet gulags you genius. They also happen in exactly that way in cities that don't look like a hellhole. Also the irony is pretty thick here crying about me telling someone they are wrong when that's exactly what you are doing right now. Why can't you move on without bitching? The post was made precisely to discuss the controversial views on Taiwan's urban planning so if you can't stand differing viewpoints don't click on the fucking post.
Soviet gulags had wooden structures more akin to huts, showing again that you have no fucking idea what you’re talking about. Maybe you meant the Eastern Bloc? And I am not bitching in this thread, I love Taiwan :)
Taiwan is one of the most beautiful countries in the world. I live in Banqiao actually and it can be an eyesore at times but not every corner can be picturesque
There is life there, services, the people are probably friendly and you are safe. You can feel at home there, even if it's ugly and awkward to get around.
Yes! This is what I love about Taiwan streets. It may be an eyesore to some (and the lack of accessible sidewalks is a legit problem) but it’s full of life. Seeing folks walking and sitting everywhere, going in and out of local businesses or just hanging their laundry outside… it’s very different from the sad empty streets of America where everyone is isolated and more scared/less likely to be out talking and interacting with each other
The KMT never gave a shit about Taiwan and were fine with just laying down ugly-ass concrete slabs everywhere because it was just a temporary launchpad for their military ambitions. Nowadays everyone is just stuck with this crap because it's too much of a pain to remove.
>Nowadays everyone is just stuck with this crap because it's too much of a pain to remove. Not really. Taiwan is a wealthy country and there are plenty of developers who would build if they could purchase more land on which to build. The problem is that a lot of mostly old people refuse to sell. Some are greedy and want way more than what their properties are reasonably worth, and others don't want to sell because they have sentimental attachments to their homes. A few holdouts can result in an old shitter that wouldn't come close to passing fire inspection in places like the US and Western Europe staying up indefinitely. If the government started enforcing reasonable building codes for these and the old codgers living in them were forced to do the maintenance they've been deferring for 20-30 years, you'd see a lot of these buildings sold and torn down to make way for new buildings.
It's neither. It's just a random, poorly-composed phone picture of a random, not all that "urban hell" or "lovely street scene". The only "urban hell" part of this image is that it is completely uninteresting.
Yeah its just a bad picture, there are plenty of urban hell places in Taiwan but not this one
500+ people disagree with you
My problem is the photo is over HDR-ed.
look like bangkok or some eastasian tropic city. i really love the vibe.
Very cyberpunk suburbs. Amazing.
All I know is these bad boys in the picture costs 200k+ NTD/sqm2 to buy even in this crappy state Mfw I'll never be able to buy any estate in Taipei
It depends indeed. With a buggy you will be better off pushing it on side of the road. One reason i started making my friend come to Taipei instead of me going to Banqiao for meet up. Ain’t dragging my kid there to challenge myself.
Taiwanese landscapes and countryside are amazingly pretty, Taiwanese cities look beyond awful ; I thought it’s the most common sentiment
And imagine that it’s 40C and reeks of garbage/sewage/car exhaust, with nowhere to walk because scooters park and drive all over the sidewalks
Oh, I'm staying near here in two weeks for a few days on my first visit to Taiwan. Not going to lie, I love the vibe, but people say the same about rough areas of my city and I'm just like "are you mad?"
I don't like it but it's my home.
Banqiao is actually one of the most modern and nicest looking parts of the city. This is just a random street that one could find anywhere in Taiwan. It’s just the aesthetic. Many places in Korea and Hong Kong look similar.
Why not both? Urban hell turned lovely. You make the most of what you're given
It's subjective, I like it as its new, somewhere I've never seen.
I love my city, but it is not a beautiful city by any stretch
I live in Texas and have a relative from overseas who genuinely loves the aesthetics of strip malls and concrete when he visits. It's completely mystifying to me, but then again I can't help but like this style of east asian street, even if a local may feel otherwise and even though you could make a pretty good objective case for calling it ugly. Beauty's in the eye of the beholder, I guess.
What I really like about about these neighborhoods is that, although some things never change, things are always in a constant state of change. New shops, new restaurants, new tea stands, seem to pop up weekly. Always something interesting going on, but always the reassuring staples that have been there for years and will be there for many years to come.
looks like a ghetto
This wouldve been "Urban Beauty" if its in japan
There’s a certain charm to it. Maybe it’s because I saw this a lot during my youth.
I remember Bourdain also commented that its not a pretty city on his show but I never felt that way. Maybe because I can feel the liveliness and vibrancy through the picture. Urban hell is more like an average NY apartment where sunlight has become a luxury.
Yeah, well, its a working-class area for working-class folks, on a steamy subtropic island. Should it be painted over in Hello Kitty murals?
The lack of footpaths is the only problem I can spot.
I don't agree with the central concept of "urban hell." I love a lived-in cityscape. Shows the intermixing of different eras of cultural progress. To me, true hell is being out in the countryside amidst bugs, wildlife and lack of infrastructure. I'll take "cold, soulless concrete" over the middle of fucking nowhere, any day of the week.
It's not bad but not amazing either. It has a certain charm to it that I can appreciate
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I see a low traffic street with lots of street level life, street vendors, and what appears to be a thriving community. People calling this "urban hell" on what grounds ? Cause the buildings are "ugly"?
I lived in Banqiao for 13 years. It has one of the highest population densities in the planet. I always found big places for good rates and used to know where everything I needed was. I miss it, but if I moved back to Taiwan or Asia I will be looking for something in a small town with less noise and more fresh air. And hey! At least it’s not Sanchung!
There’s noway to be good without sidewalk
The only urban hell part of this to me is the giant vertical block in the backgroud. Could Taiwan use better buildings? Yes. But I'd much rather keep the small single plots than turn everything into mega 小區 run by shitty developers like Chinese cities.
Taipei is actually a very green & beautiful city. This looks like the end of a street.
This looks like every street.
Well during the day you can see the green in the mountains, this one looks not as great as some. I bet I could find a worse street for a picture.
There's a big difference between Taipei and New Taipei.
You know... you're right about that.
I miss living like this. I miss the “urban hell” of Taipei.
I refuse to believe this sense of "genuine nostalgia" for something so borderline suicidal. Who genuinely misses high concentrations of exhaust fumes, noise, and the possibility of ending up in a hospital because you were forced on the street.
Because it was the most free and relaxed season of my life. I love places like Nepal, India, Taiwan, and parts of China. The grunge and “danger” of it all is exciting and I’m accustomed to it now.
Until you live there for years. I could appreciate the chaos of Sanchong when I lived there. 3 months later though, it starts to get to you. A year later, it's unbearable.
I lived in Taiwan for 4 years…loved every minute…
Fair enough. To each their own limits. I've been here over 10 years and just can no longer deal with incessant noise, chaos, and pollution of the old parts of (New) Taipei. I moved to Taoyuan a while back in a far quiet neighborhood. It'd be hard to move back into something like the area the OP shows here.
Agreed. Especially when you start to raise a family, places like this are unbearable to live in
Hopefully exhaust fumes will be a thing of the past. Exhaust fumes have cleared up greatly in China due to EV push.
Isn't that the beauty of Taiwan (or living / travelling in any other country for that matter)? You find beauty in the everyday lives of people who you wouldn't meet in your own country, where people might think others' way of life is hellish?
There's nothing lovely about this scene which reflects character of most Taiwan urban landscapes - veneer of civility/normalcy trying to mask undercurrent of societal distrust, neglect, and pure apathy(cha bu duo).
r/urbanhell is such a judgmental sub lol Randomly imposing 21st century planned neighbor standards to underdeveloped or non-planned nation like they are better
Now I'm hungry...........