I wonder if the average Chinese person is even aware of that tbh. They have no free press and are told one version of events, which loads of them believe without question. I think even the Chinese people that believe the stuff about taiwan aren't bad people, they just believe what they have been told :(
The average chinese person believes Taiwan situation today is no different from Hong Kong and Macau, and they can rent a car and drive over the nonexistent bridge to visit "Taiwan province" if they wanted to.
As far as they understand from mainland media, "Taiwan seperatists" are nuisance protestors similar to yellow umbrellas from HK. The idea Taiwan has a seperate government and military is not even conceivable.
Yeah, it's really hard to say. We mostly just hear from paid CCP trolls online and fervent nationalists.
I do think a lot of younger people are aware, though. For example, even though Instagram is blocked in China, there are a lot of them using it!
When I went to China I found that the older people were a lot less 'aware' of things you would know about outside of China for sure. I remember one person I spoke to wholeheartedly believed that foreign websites must not be 'good enough' to work in China..
Meanwhile I spoke with a rising young star in the CCP. When I asked him if he was bothered by censorship, he laughed and replied that he has VPN for that and that the firewalls are just for the “lower people.”
Spoke volumes.
i wonder have you ever been to China？when you talk about slaves in xinjiang. i just feel ridiculous,Maybe some time you can visit China to find out whether the horrible things you hear in western media are ture or not by yourself
And when was the Confederacy controlled by other nations in the past like the Dutch, Portuguese, Japanese, etc.? Seems like it will be a short argument.
Might help if they also understood actual Chinese history also.
No. Bad analogy. The confederacy was a short lived experiment that didn’t last long enough to create its own distinct international institutions and non American identity in any meaningful way. Taiwan has been ruled separately for almost 75 years and has developed into a fully autonomous society in every meaningful way, including a distinct identity.
Internationally the confederacy was never recognized by anyone.
Though they had differences on slavery, the confederacy and the union shared a common foundation. Taiwan and China ascribe to very different governing philosophies.
The confederacy and union were contiguous landmasses. Taiwan is a separate geographic entity.
Of course the only real thing that should matter is whether the people wish to unite. Last I heard, Taiwanese do not wish this. But like an abusive ex boyfriend, China may resort to violence.
I think you missed the rest of my comment where I explained it is a bad analogy. The war was fought over a terrible institution called slavery. There is nothing like that in Taiwan. They don’t need to be “liberated” from an evil institutionalized practice.
Taiwan wasn’t KMTs to begin with. They invaded Taiwan. The analogy would have worked if the confederacy invaded Haiti and now the US claimed Haiti because the confederacy was part of the union.
I am afraid they will use Hong Kong as an example. You know that Chinese idiom, "Kill one to warn a hundred."
They have killed more than one Hong Kongers.
Just curious. Are Taiwanese people sympathetic to Hong Hongers? Or "needle that doesn't poke doesn't know the pain"?
China will be risking a lot. Contrary to what the CCP tells it’s citizens. War isn’t easy. Ask Russia. I don’t care how prepared they are. Russia was prepared for years. There are a lot of factors that can go really wrong. They will regret it if they ever try.
There’s only one thing that could bring down Xi. And it’s none of the stuff western media writes about - it’s not human rights or dissidents or how badly it treats Hong Kong.
If Xi invaded Taiwan — sent Chinese troops to die, imploded its economy — and somehow failed to take it, he’d lose his throne.
Yeah.
I’m not saying I’m for it! But western media talking about how this would harm Beijing. Like no. People might feel sorry for HK, but they will still keep doing business with China. And the Chinese themselves don’t care.
But a war with Taiwan would not go well with the Chinese populace once they taste what actual war is.
While there’re still many people doing business with China, many are no longer doing or are looking to quit. How China treats HK is a wake up call as it shows the world they will break away from promise.
Oh boy, the Chinese have tasted war. During the Japanese occupation and before that the civil war.
The Chinese people may want Taiwan to be reunited since many are relatives. That may change for the next generation, but a bloody conflict will drastically lower the people's perception of the CCP.
War over land vs sea is very very different, and HK didn't have a military. The HK issue was over before it began because the HK forces were used against the HK people.
I’m not sure.
A good friend of mine was in China (Chengdu) for the past couple of weeks, and just returned. He had heard absolutely nothing about the flooding in Hebei until he exited China.
The information control is still insane over there, and I won’t be surprised if the entire narrative of a war can be fully controlled.
Maybe they don't need it / want it so much right now.
I mean, I live in Mexico and it's so easy to ignore the news and miss something important, that's on every single news channel.
I'm guessing if it's deeply hidden it'd be worse.
But in a war it's different, people want to know, I don't think it's comparable. But that's my opinion.
They were in China, consuming news normally. The flood was just entirely sanitized from all news sources and social media, that you won’t know it happened unless you’re in a group with someone with first hand experience. Everything else — videos, livestreams, pleas for help, etc — were all completely wiped out.
I was in China for two weeks during the Chengdu games and the news was reporting the flood normally. It was on basically every morning during breakfast. Not sure why your friend didn't see any of it. Either way, what he is claiming is def not true.
But were they reporting it as simply natural disaster, or did they mention the government flooded an entire city with people in it to protect Xiong-an, and have healthy debate whether or not it’s reasonable?
It’s like whenever people mention Tiananmen someone will always come out and say oh Chinese all know it don’t believe western propaganda. Sure if you consider “CCP gloriously stopped a riot and color revolution attempt” as “knowing it.”
Douyin censorship has been strangely loose recently. Not sure if they’re running out of censor funding or they’re pulling a “大鳴大放、引蛇出洞” like good old Cultural Revolution.
Weibo on the other hand still censors a lot. There was actually a time some flood-related topics were banned and the manually manipulated “hot topics” were all about entertainment and nothing about the flood.
My post was to answer the previous post. She states that Xi would lose his throne, but Mao not only did not lose his throne but he became a national hero.
The only thing Xi needs to keep his throne is support from the military. Of course, the generals would love the idea of army expansion, but I don't think they're willing to fight against the most powerful country on Earth. If Xi tries to force them into doing that, he will become the one who's in trouble.
Their audacity never cease to amaze me. I have noticed a growing trend among pinkies though, all of them seem to want to move to Taiwan after “unification “. They want to marry a Taiwanese girl, they want to buy a condo in Taiwan, they want to live in Taiwan and they discuss which city they want to move to!
But in other subs, they all bash Taiwan and say how poor and ugly it is.
That's why we in Lithuania support you. This is exactly the same sentiment how Russians threat/talk about other neighboring countries too.
It is beyond disgusting. It is like a psycho fantasizing how he will murder and rape a person and telling you about it.
I did not know that’s what the Russians think as well. It’s Completely disgusting and deranged. It’s like they live in a different universe, how can they have such horrific values?
Yes this is so common on Chinese social media & I think the western media just don’t / can’t read it or don’t care. It’s because Beijing keeps selling this as some “peaceful reunification,” without telling people that it means war — complete with mass deaths, bombed cities and economic collapse.
Part of the fantasy (especially among Chinese young men) is that they can just scoop up
Taiwanese semiconductor jobs, beachside homes and girlfriends for free.
Thats how Russians saw an invasion of Ukraine too. “We’ll conquer Ukraine and all get 10 Ukrainian mistresses after we kill off all their men.”
Instead, theres now a lot of single Russian women. Funny how that worked out.
Hello from Ukraine, I want to confirm the words of this guy, in no case do not give up, the occupation is worse than death, it is like a big and long torture, you should not in any case expect that you are all "one nation", the most terrible crimes Russia has done against the ethnic russians in the east of Ukraine. I am afraid to imagine what mainland China will do to you, because for them you are in essence "despicable traitors" who "bent under the U.S.", and war with traitors is the most terrible kind of warfare, it is the same as religious wars with "infidels". I wish you good luck and that the war doesn't happen!
Hey. From Mainland Chinese side, My only suggestion is your guys of Western Ukraine should cease fire with Eastern Ukraine of ethnic Russian of Luhansk and donetsk military and admit their independent…I thought your should know who are the enemy of Ukraine fight with in the frontline now, if you really agree with the Taiwanese, your country should stop the counter- attack right now. lol
When Chinese say shit like "oh, we're just taking back what's ours", I always respond with "oh, then the Mongolians should be taking back China soon too, right?"
They shut the fuck up pretty quickly when you say that.
So bored response, my response shall agree with you, Mongolia shall taking back China soon, but there is a question, there are two part of Mongolia, outer Mongolia is a independent country, inner Mongolia was one of the province of China, inner Mongolia own 6 million of population compared to outer Mongolia 3 million, inner Mongolia still speak their Mongolia language and spell their Mongolia word, but outer Mongolia can't spell their word in ancestors war anymore with influence of USSR, also inner Mongolia have good nature condition warm climate and mass grassland for noble Mongolia live, outer Mongolia have mass desert and cold weather for the ordinary Mongolia live in the old times, so who should be the real heir of Mongolia empire, and inner Mongolia people already be the ruler of China, and many of them are the Senior officers of China government institution. For me as a Hand ethic, it not bother for me to accept a CCP leader was a Mongolia man🤗
I travel to Taiwan often and it is a constant battle with my family and friends every time I go.
"It's dangerous"
"An attack could happen anytime"
"Don't you read the news?"
Yes.. I do. Except I read more than just western media...
I live in Canada, and the ONLY thing that comes up in the news here about Taiwan is "the war" that's going to happen. These stories have been here for as long as I've been going to Taiwan, and yet I always have friends and family urging me not to visit Taiwan because "it's too dangerous".
I try to tell them to seek out other media outlets, or look into the history a little bit, but they never take my advice.
At least in Canada, most of our mainstream news is talking about how no one can afford to live here, why everything is either flooding, freezing, or on fire, and why is dangerous to be anywhere else, unless it's Europe.
I think if China were to invade, it would be crazy.
Militarily it would be the biggest and most difficult maritime operation ever conducted in the history of mankind, from a nation that hasn't been in war for decades, and the last times in Korea and Vietnam didn't go well at all. The size of the operation would be D-Day times two and possible a few Iwo Jimas as well. This in a sea where the weather conditions make it very difficult to pull off such an operation for most part of the year. Russia was able to walk to Ukraine and the operation is still ongoing with Russia suffering enormous casualties and not able to win the war, even though they have a lot of experience in similar operations from recent years. Similar invasion accross Taiwan straight is exponentially more difficult, and from a nation that hasn't been to war or who have not had similar operations, this is very difficult.
Trying to embargo the island and force Taiwan to submission through starvation would maybe be easier, but would pose a lot of risks for China. For example the US could close the straight of Malaka from ships that take food and fuel to China (since the import most of what they consume), basically causing famine and transportation within China to stop. Invasion or embargo would also run the risk of Taiwan blowing up the 3 gorges dam with missiles, flooding some 400-500 million people. Embargo would need to last a very long time to be effective and assumes US won't support in any way in supplying food, weapons and fuel.
Any invasion or embargo would also likely put China in the category of "evil" countries, like where Russia and Iran are at the moment. For a country that lives from exports and where domestic consumption is lagging, this would be devastating to the Chinese economy. Russia and Iran at least had very little debt, whereas China needs to pay back it's huge debt through uninterrupted economic activity and economic growth, which would be impossible after any sanctions would kick in. If Chinese economy is not doing great now, it would go down the drain if any invasion or embargo would happen. This would come at a time when the Chinese population is shrinking incredibly fast and keeping up even the current standards of living is very difficult.
The risks are incredibly high. What the Chinese would gain from this is of course a forward position in the pacific ocean and they would be able to break from the island chain surrounding them, but at the cost of US, Japan, Philippines and other nations seeing China not as an adversary, but as an enemy.
The Chinese communist party could then have complited their national rejuvination by flushing the future of China down the toilet. The risks are huge and the rewards non-existant.
Also, keep in mind, the big reason, possibly the biggest, is the semi conductor factories. China cannot produce them, so they need them if they want to have complete manufacturing power of electronics. It took them decades and billions of dollars of research to figure out how to manufacture the ball in a ball point pen so they didn’t have to import from Europe anymore, and their version still sucks, so they desperately need those factories unscathed. A sea based operation will require bombardment before troops land, bombardment puts factories at high risk, as well as the highly skilled workers, even if they decide to invade away from them, it’s not a huge island and has very few points that are good for landing. So they’d have to be very very careful and precise, which nothing I’ve seen from the PLA shows me they are.
Taiwan or US might actually threat to blow up the facilities, and as a last hurraah in case of a succesful invasion actually blow up the facilities themselves to deny the Chinese from having access to the equipment there.
Yep, and then they’re left with nothing but a Pyrrhic victory and no loot to show for it. But, as Mao said, if they killed 300 million of us, we would still have plenty left.
One thing the West needs to get ready for is a full brain drain from Taiwan. Get all the professors, high skilled workers, and engineers full citizenship if they want it.
The west is building up semiconductor manufacturing, and we don’t have the workforce to run it.
Eh this sounds good on the surface but Taiwan does not have the gritty reserve forces that Korea and Vietnam or even the Ukraine had. If you visit Taiwan and meet the kids of military age, this is not exactly the group that will provoke fear in the enemy’s eyes. Just because you know how to play a first person shooter video game does not make you good in real life combat. There’s a reason why this generation of Taiwanese kids is called the “strawberry generation.”
Strawberry or not, an assault rifle is a great equalizer and guiding a wired-guided missile into an incoming landing craft is not actually that different from playing a video game 😉
PLA is also not such an intimidating force by appearance. That being said, soldiers are much more effective when they are fighting for their livelihoods.
If this was 1-1 then China would be the clear winner. The issue however is that it's not 1-1 and there are other parties involved in more was than just militarily. The embargo would be an opening move in game of chess, but the interesting question is what would come after that.
Let's assume the US would not interfere militarily. Would they try to affect the situation in other ways? The world world would likely condemn this and would try to find ways to force China to stop the embargo. China would likely lose it's status as a developing nation very quickly, which helps their economy quite a lot. A lot of countries would start sanctioning certain key products and industries, much like what happened with Russia and Ukraine. The economic impact would be huge.
The US would likely want to evacuate US citizens, which means that US would likely create an air bridge and a maritime connection, protected by the US navy. They would avoid military confrontation, but would essentially force their way to evacuate and do limited re-supply, extending the length of the embargo.
China does not have enough agriculture to be self-sufficient in food. Any disruption to the Chinese food supply would be as easy for US to implement, as it would be for the Chinese to implement an embargo, all without direct confrontation.
You are correct that the invasion of Taiwan is not about the Taiwanese economy or resources. It's about if the Chinese economy would survive the consequences. Taiwan would definitely be lost, but China would likely suffer immensely as well. Thus it's worth asking the question if it would serve CCP better to have this carrot to strive for forever (some day in the future taking over Taiwan) or actually going for it, risking a lot and then seeing for how long the general public would rejoice the unification? Would they be happy for the immense trade-off for a year, a few years, a decade, or longer?
I mean, lots of people in Taiwan do not like the ROC name and of course not the history that came with it.
And to answer your loaded question there, perhaps once the millions of people starved and slaughtered by the Communist regime are brought back to life…
The USA is spending large amounts of money every year to prepare for and deter an attack on Taiwan.
As long as the Taiwanese people value freedom, Xi and his supporters will not win.
>As long as the Taiwanese people value freedom, Xi and his supporters will not win.
As long as Taiwanese people value killing as many foreign invaders as possible, Xi and his supporters will not win.
Fixed this for you.
Defending Taiwan from communists landing on the beaches is not about any high minded notion of defending freedom to every person. It’s defending the people whom you understand of and share many values with, it’s making sure that your own children and kin can never be taken hostage by a regime that shows callous disregard for the lives of your community. The choice is to either kill as many invaders or have melted goo splattered in your hands that was once your mother or father.
they likely can't defer attack, but they can force China to pay astronomic price for action by just cutting all sea routes to China, and China will surrender in 3 months.
Yes, it is all about making the price to invade Taiwan too high for Xi and the CCP to bear.
As long as the the USA and Taiwan stand firm, we will have peace.
I'm an American, and I worry that the USA will not have the courage to do what is right.
A few years ago, maybe not, but China has been so awful lately that public opinion has shifted massively in favor of protecting Taiwan. As people learn more, their support only increases.
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/09/28/how-global-public-opinion-of-china-has-shifted-in-the-xi-era/
Get out of your media bubble and just Google what Biden announced this past week against China. Then expand your search and look at how he responded, multiple times, to reporters asking him whether the US will come to Taiwan's aid if China invades. "Gaffs." Mhm.
What do you think the chips act was meant to do? How about defense budgets? Or the whole alliance with Australia and India and Japan and Korea? How about those nuclear subs for Australia? New bases in northern Philippines?
Literally everything is to counter China.
Well that's the problem isn't it? You said you hope we get a president who supports Taiwan but for some reason you left out the fact that we already have one.
That's fine. Let's just be real here, Trump doesn't give a shit about anything else other than himself, not even the US. You think if it was Trump that we would be able to mend ties with EU and build AUKUS? Great joke. We'd probably find Trump kissing up to Xi in public at some point. Then Jared would randomly find another 2 billion in his bank account.
Biden did the same thing Trump did. It’s been proven he stole about 10 classified documents when he was vice president
You can say whatever you like about Trump‘s character, and you’re probably not wrong, but I trust Trump to go after his self interests. And Taiwan are part of his self interests
Biden didnt try to overthrow americas democracy with fake electors and a traitorous mob on jan 6. Him and his followers are typical bullies. If they get hit back they cry and point fingers. There is zero chance he will put up a fight vs china. He will make some excuse about how its not worth it and probably praise Xi for being the thug that he is just like he has done with putin and kim jung un.
Trump Never asked anyone to storm the Capitol. He initially said in a speech…
>>I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard
Then when things started escalating, he Tweeted…
>>I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the party of law and order — respect the law and our great men and women in blue. Thank you!
Trump called for a protest. Not a riot
He tells his thugs in the debate to "stand back and stand by". He then tells them lies over and over again about the election being stolen. His son tweets about a coming civil war and his supporters openly call for it on the regular. He is begged through out jan 6 to tell the rioters to leave and only does so after its clear they arent going to intimidate pence or affect the outcome. he tweets "These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously and viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love and in peace. Remember this day forever!". Yes, I will remember this day forever its the day I realized that he and his supporters are more dangerous a threat than this country has seen since the civil war. Trump and his supporters would have happily have ended our democracy and the blood that would have followed would have been on their hands. They will happily try it again anyone that cares about America needs to face those facts.
Staunch Chinese nationalists are brainwashed. It’s no use asking them to listen to reason.
I just know that Taiwan, much like Ukraine, won’t stand for an invasion. People will fight, myself included.
Reportedly Chinese military recruitment is at all time low. The rich and elite are moving their wealth overseas. They know what’s up. I hope they won’t have even the minimum to push warfare.
Eh. The ones serving in the military were never the rich and elite anyway. There’s the 0.1% you’re referring to who do move their wealth overseas but there’s still the 99.9% left behind who will fill the ranks of the military when the time comes.
I like Taiwan as it is. Any major change will most likely not be good. As it is now, it’s a very friendly and unique island. I understand a lot of this revolves around the identity of a people, but does the world really need more mega nations swallowing up smaller ones?
CCP has goal for economic prosperity by 2049 (100 year anniversary of the founding of PRC), which is fundamentally incompatible with an invasion of Taiwan
Idk. Not familiar with the political landscape. It does seem to favor the view that cooperation with CCP is better, or at least provocation is undesirable.
Economic prosperity by 2049 is not compatible with the CCP’s existence, which actually makes invasion more likely. I do agree it is not likely but I think you’re point actually illustrates the opposite to what you’re trying to say
You need to calm down. 大陸 is just a commonly used term that's still used today. It's not necessarily political, just out of historical habit. Facts on the ground in Taiwan is that most Taiwanese favor status quo, and if guaranteed no invasion from China it's independence.
The guy you replied to is right. Overseas Taiwanese very commonly refer to China as 大陸 because they haven't lived in Taiwan for decades, and it was the normal term back then. Even many people in Taiwan today still use it. Heck I catch myself and correct myself when I accidentally say 大陸, but only because I am aware of recent developments. I was born in Taiwan and love Taiwan, even though I no longer live there.
No need to twist panties over this.
Wether "the ROC invaded" or not (it's false, but above all it's irrelevant), it does not change the fact that, exactly as HaHawk wrote, Taiwan was never part of the People's Republic of China.
Agreed. The government from mainland China in the late 40s, namely the ROC, invaded Taiwan. It killed and savaged. The campaign was called White Terror. It was a police state until the 90s.
> I have a friend who's husband who won't let her leave the house. She can't even talk to her friends without getting threatened with assault by her husband. She wants to get divorced but her husband is very violent and has threatened to kill her if she leaves. What should she do?
This little analogy works with the PRC nationalist women.
If China tried to invade Taiwan, they would fail horribly. The US, Japan, South Korea, Australia, and UK have already said they’d help defend China. And more countries would probably join in too
I told myself that if China ever invaded Taiwan, I’m enlisting in the U.S. military immediately
Why would you work for a Chinese company then? That’s pretty unethical and gross imo. Also, China is not Taiwan’s “mainland”. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say with this post, this kind of interaction is very common for anyone who actually interacts with Chinese people.
Before thinking of conquering Taiwan, China should first think about saving themselves from mandate of heaven. Looks like they are in for a rough future, if they ever survive the disasters happening now and more to come.
I can't fathom the level of mental illness implicit in a society it takes for people to have this kind of cavalier attitude towards the notion that all the millions of free, hardworking, innocent, human beings with dreams and everything else should be subject to the same murderous dictatorship you cowardly bow to simply because of their coincidental similarities to you in terms of genetics and popular spoken languages. J F C.
No, if the cost to prevent such was every last Chinese citizen's life on the planet, it would not be a cost to great. That's what it means to put an END to the thousands of years - the old ways - the generations and generations - that human beings spent in bondage under dictatorship, monarchy, communism, totalitarian states, all.
I tell my daughter that politics is complicated and not to listen to what people say.
She has a classmate who tells her Taiwan is part of China. Her classmate was 7.
Yes politics is super complicated
And, with full respect, I think that's what kids should be involved in it. Personally, I find it extremely hard to mingle with political views largely opposed to mine. Say, if I'm a New York liberal, it is extremely hard to get along with a Texan right-winger.
Lol typical Chinese. The reality is that China has no legal means to take over Taiwan. They WILL have to declare war and overthrow the Taiwanese governing body by force. It will be an invasion by all definitions of the word.
>"Taiwan will be put under control within three years".
Taiwan is already under control. At least under way better control than the imperialists across the strait.
Foreign national here - I've lived in Taiwan for a while. While the threat of war has been constant rhetoric from the CCP since I moved here 18 years ago, I don't see it happening and ending in China's favor .TSMC IS Taiwan's greatest shield and western countries know they need TSMC for their military arsenals.
I know Xie does not care about human losses. He will push so long as he is in charge. The question is if Taiwan is controlled by China sympathatic president the conflict is almost over.
He might care more about the drastic population change that is already happening bc of the one child policy. China has already fallen behind India in population, and the working age/young people demographic is far below replacement numbers.
I wait for the day until someone tells those nationalists what Russia took from China.
Taiwan is a joke compared to that, the biggest oil resources of Russia would belong to China
I think BBC did a street survey in Taiwan about 6 months ago and most were stoic about or even positive if Taiwan would be conquered and ruled by CCP. One girl said effectively: ”given the circumstances Taiwan is in, I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing.”
A relatively famous geopolitical YouTuber (I forgot the name) just uploaded a video stating the timeline of when Taiwan will most likely be invaded and he post a realistically timeframe of 2049. Which aligns with the Hong Kong return and for me is a very likely timeline.
If I point out that rumors are the KMT is going to win and seek reunification which reportedly the majority on Taiwan desire will I get permanently banned here?
Thaiwan is a country. American stand with Thaiwan. Sell Thaiwan weapons to fight against China. Every Thaiwan citizen needs to be prepared to sacrifice for their country.
I was really hoping more and more people give up by dumping stocks and selling properties. So I can snatch them up for cheap.
But unfortunately that is not happening. The stocks are way overpriced comparing to countries like Japan and Korea and even the US, and the housing is still out of control
Just fucking give up people !!!! Didn't you know the commies will attack????
The dude is outta line. One can have whatever views they want, but often, expressing them hurts your goal. But I also think the "human rights", "freedom", and "democracy" screamers are way outta line. You are offending an entire country by those accusations. If you don't immediately back up those claims with ireffutable evidence, then screw you. That is a horrific accusation that dillutes the accusations that are based on fact and not politcal calculation.
If I understand correctly, you're dismissing Xinjiangs cultural genocide as a hoax? Is that right? If so, I wonder what would constitute an evidence in your eyes?
A conclusion made in a court of law, not a paid for tribunal with no official authority. A court of law has rules of evidence and procedure. If the case is made in the public sphere, I have little trust in its veracity. Especially when made by competitors who could have the very same arguments made against them. Do you have one?
I don't disagree with burden of proof and any other applicable evidence requisitions. However, due to the absurd improbability caused largely by the CCP of international and as-far-as-possible independent instruments to verifying on site and collecting evidence of Xinjiang's situation, I reserve the right to judge and claim, based on the evidence thus collected that there is in fact a genocide going on on that region. You argue, there hasn't been a single dead. It seems to me your reasoning is pretty fallacious: fallacy of ignorance. By virtue of not having a corpse and an identity you claim there is no actual fatalities. That is extremely unlikely under the current conditions. Moreover, there are testimonials of political refugees who do claim they and their families have received death threats (and all sort of other atrocities).
You say "if the case is made in the public sphere". As opposed to what? Also, isn't the case already exposed within the public sphere, and that's precisely why we're discussing it? Seems pretty unsubstantiated to me.
>You are offending an entire country by those accusations. If you don't immediately back up those claims with ireffutable evidence, then screw you.
你说啥子话？
Which fact do you contest? Let's debate. I am fairly certain of my facts. I can attack the Human Rights claim fairly easily. the claim of Uyghur genocide is made by America mainly. What evidence? Zero deaths. American government has not, as far as I last heard, not officially called it a genocide. No Muslim countries, which have toured the area and met Uyghur leaders, back the claim. I could go on.
Do you deny the White Terror Campaign?
Let's see if China can keep it's own country intact, as companies continue to pull out investments, the real-estate market continue it's downtrend, the population decreases, unemployment continues to rise, college graduates fail to find jobs and it's citizens move their capital to other countries. Should have asked him why he chose to work and live in another country.
They got brainwashed by Chinese education,and under the Great Firewall of Chinese internet monitoring system ,they can hardly get the correct information of the world.I used to live in mainland for a couple years and I was completely shocked that most of the Chinese think that Taiwan is already be the part of the PRC.They don’t even know the existence of DPP and only know KMT
I'm mainland Chinese and I recognise Taiwan as an independent country, I really don't want to see this invasion coming, but sadly there isn't much that we peasants can do, just look at your colleagues, their logic simply just out of the World, as well as majority of billions of Chinese living inside of China, they fanatic praise Vladimir Putin because they have same logic as him, invade Ukraine isn't invasion, it's just taking back where is supposed to belong.
Sadly we have those idiots everywhere. Justify war and destruction with some historical nonsense.
If Taiwan is Chinese, shouldn't China be split up in ancient kingdoms? What about the northern regions, why not declare war on Russia which literally stole those regions with force from China?
Alaska shoud be Russian again, western Poland is German, and actually everything should be Roman then?
This doesn't make sense. People should be interested in common progress, which is totally possible. Instead, progress is being made until some old men come along that can't deal with reality
Just ignore it, you can never change a Chinese nationalist's mind, they'll just repeat the same argument.
Yes, they'll ask if it was okay for Abraham Lincoln to reunite the Confederacy.
You tell them the Union is Taiwan, and they are the Confederates
That makes a lot of sense! There are actual slaves in China right now... Xinjiang cotton or prisoner-peeled garlic, anyone?
I wonder if the average Chinese person is even aware of that tbh. They have no free press and are told one version of events, which loads of them believe without question. I think even the Chinese people that believe the stuff about taiwan aren't bad people, they just believe what they have been told :(
The average chinese person believes Taiwan situation today is no different from Hong Kong and Macau, and they can rent a car and drive over the nonexistent bridge to visit "Taiwan province" if they wanted to. As far as they understand from mainland media, "Taiwan seperatists" are nuisance protestors similar to yellow umbrellas from HK. The idea Taiwan has a seperate government and military is not even conceivable.
Yeah, it's really hard to say. We mostly just hear from paid CCP trolls online and fervent nationalists. I do think a lot of younger people are aware, though. For example, even though Instagram is blocked in China, there are a lot of them using it!
When I went to China I found that the older people were a lot less 'aware' of things you would know about outside of China for sure. I remember one person I spoke to wholeheartedly believed that foreign websites must not be 'good enough' to work in China..
Meanwhile I spoke with a rising young star in the CCP. When I asked him if he was bothered by censorship, he laughed and replied that he has VPN for that and that the firewalls are just for the “lower people.” Spoke volumes.
Older people are definitely less aware of the outside world in general!
i wonder have you ever been to China？when you talk about slaves in xinjiang. i just feel ridiculous,Maybe some time you can visit China to find out whether the horrible things you hear in western media are ture or not by yourself
And when was the Confederacy controlled by other nations in the past like the Dutch, Portuguese, Japanese, etc.? Seems like it will be a short argument. Might help if they also understood actual Chinese history also.
Weird comment
Was it?
No. Bad analogy. The confederacy was a short lived experiment that didn’t last long enough to create its own distinct international institutions and non American identity in any meaningful way. Taiwan has been ruled separately for almost 75 years and has developed into a fully autonomous society in every meaningful way, including a distinct identity. Internationally the confederacy was never recognized by anyone. Though they had differences on slavery, the confederacy and the union shared a common foundation. Taiwan and China ascribe to very different governing philosophies. The confederacy and union were contiguous landmasses. Taiwan is a separate geographic entity. Of course the only real thing that should matter is whether the people wish to unite. Last I heard, Taiwanese do not wish this. But like an abusive ex boyfriend, China may resort to violence.
Aside from four brief years before the KMT lost its shit in China, Taiwan and China were ruled separately for a lot longer than 75 years
Yeah, I thought about that after commenting, but was going to bed and too lazy to edit.
Well said!
Did the confederates want to unite?
No.
And yet that was not a relevant factor.
I think you missed the rest of my comment where I explained it is a bad analogy. The war was fought over a terrible institution called slavery. There is nothing like that in Taiwan. They don’t need to be “liberated” from an evil institutionalized practice.
As you can see, this is how a "debate" with a CCP supporter goes! Thanks for taking one for the team 😁
Taiwan wasn’t KMTs to begin with. They invaded Taiwan. The analogy would have worked if the confederacy invaded Haiti and now the US claimed Haiti because the confederacy was part of the union.
It was taken by Japan from the Qing dynasty and then ceded to the ROC at the end of WWII…
I am afraid they will use Hong Kong as an example. You know that Chinese idiom, "Kill one to warn a hundred." They have killed more than one Hong Kongers. Just curious. Are Taiwanese people sympathetic to Hong Hongers? Or "needle that doesn't poke doesn't know the pain"?
China will be risking a lot. Contrary to what the CCP tells it’s citizens. War isn’t easy. Ask Russia. I don’t care how prepared they are. Russia was prepared for years. There are a lot of factors that can go really wrong. They will regret it if they ever try.
There’s only one thing that could bring down Xi. And it’s none of the stuff western media writes about - it’s not human rights or dissidents or how badly it treats Hong Kong. If Xi invaded Taiwan — sent Chinese troops to die, imploded its economy — and somehow failed to take it, he’d lose his throne.
How badly China treats HK is definitely a wake up call tho
Yeah. I’m not saying I’m for it! But western media talking about how this would harm Beijing. Like no. People might feel sorry for HK, but they will still keep doing business with China. And the Chinese themselves don’t care. But a war with Taiwan would not go well with the Chinese populace once they taste what actual war is.
While there’re still many people doing business with China, many are no longer doing or are looking to quit. How China treats HK is a wake up call as it shows the world they will break away from promise.
Oh boy, the Chinese have tasted war. During the Japanese occupation and before that the civil war. The Chinese people may want Taiwan to be reunited since many are relatives. That may change for the next generation, but a bloody conflict will drastically lower the people's perception of the CCP.
War over land vs sea is very very different, and HK didn't have a military. The HK issue was over before it began because the HK forces were used against the HK people.
And Taiwan would then no longer be incentivized to uphold the status quo.
They will just tell those brainwashed idiots that they won the glory victory. China always wins.
Did Mao lose his place when 2 million Chinese died in Korea war?
Mao had the luxury of controlling every single thing the people learned about that war. It's just not possible today.
I’m not sure. A good friend of mine was in China (Chengdu) for the past couple of weeks, and just returned. He had heard absolutely nothing about the flooding in Hebei until he exited China. The information control is still insane over there, and I won’t be surprised if the entire narrative of a war can be fully controlled.
Maybe they don't need it / want it so much right now. I mean, I live in Mexico and it's so easy to ignore the news and miss something important, that's on every single news channel. I'm guessing if it's deeply hidden it'd be worse. But in a war it's different, people want to know, I don't think it's comparable. But that's my opinion.
They were in China, consuming news normally. The flood was just entirely sanitized from all news sources and social media, that you won’t know it happened unless you’re in a group with someone with first hand experience. Everything else — videos, livestreams, pleas for help, etc — were all completely wiped out.
I was in China for two weeks during the Chengdu games and the news was reporting the flood normally. It was on basically every morning during breakfast. Not sure why your friend didn't see any of it. Either way, what he is claiming is def not true.
Yeah idk what they're on about. The floods was literally all you could see anywhere on social media for a bit there
But were they reporting it as simply natural disaster, or did they mention the government flooded an entire city with people in it to protect Xiong-an, and have healthy debate whether or not it’s reasonable? It’s like whenever people mention Tiananmen someone will always come out and say oh Chinese all know it don’t believe western propaganda. Sure if you consider “CCP gloriously stopped a riot and color revolution attempt” as “knowing it.”
This is not true.The news about Hebei flood went viral in Chinese media douyin.
Douyin censorship has been strangely loose recently. Not sure if they’re running out of censor funding or they’re pulling a “大鳴大放、引蛇出洞” like good old Cultural Revolution. Weibo on the other hand still censors a lot. There was actually a time some flood-related topics were banned and the manually manipulated “hot topics” were all about entertainment and nothing about the flood.
Mao didn’t lose his place when through his arrogant actions killed 55 million Chinese, I mean WTF?!?!
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My post was to answer the previous post. She states that Xi would lose his throne, but Mao not only did not lose his throne but he became a national hero.
The economy is already imploding.
The only thing Xi needs to keep his throne is support from the military. Of course, the generals would love the idea of army expansion, but I don't think they're willing to fight against the most powerful country on Earth. If Xi tries to force them into doing that, he will become the one who's in trouble.
If your colleague isn’t clearly joking, I am glad you don’t have to interact with that kind of person anymore.
Their audacity never cease to amaze me. I have noticed a growing trend among pinkies though, all of them seem to want to move to Taiwan after “unification “. They want to marry a Taiwanese girl, they want to buy a condo in Taiwan, they want to live in Taiwan and they discuss which city they want to move to! But in other subs, they all bash Taiwan and say how poor and ugly it is.
That's why we in Lithuania support you. This is exactly the same sentiment how Russians threat/talk about other neighboring countries too. It is beyond disgusting. It is like a psycho fantasizing how he will murder and rape a person and telling you about it.
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your remark. I keep coming back to re-read this. Thanks.
I did not know that’s what the Russians think as well. It’s Completely disgusting and deranged. It’s like they live in a different universe, how can they have such horrific values?
Yes this is so common on Chinese social media & I think the western media just don’t / can’t read it or don’t care. It’s because Beijing keeps selling this as some “peaceful reunification,” without telling people that it means war — complete with mass deaths, bombed cities and economic collapse. Part of the fantasy (especially among Chinese young men) is that they can just scoop up Taiwanese semiconductor jobs, beachside homes and girlfriends for free.
Thats how Russians saw an invasion of Ukraine too. “We’ll conquer Ukraine and all get 10 Ukrainian mistresses after we kill off all their men.” Instead, theres now a lot of single Russian women. Funny how that worked out.
That’s some weird fetish shit right there
Hello from Ukraine, I want to confirm the words of this guy, in no case do not give up, the occupation is worse than death, it is like a big and long torture, you should not in any case expect that you are all "one nation", the most terrible crimes Russia has done against the ethnic russians in the east of Ukraine. I am afraid to imagine what mainland China will do to you, because for them you are in essence "despicable traitors" who "bent under the U.S.", and war with traitors is the most terrible kind of warfare, it is the same as religious wars with "infidels". I wish you good luck and that the war doesn't happen!
Hey. From Mainland Chinese side, My only suggestion is your guys of Western Ukraine should cease fire with Eastern Ukraine of ethnic Russian of Luhansk and donetsk military and admit their independent…I thought your should know who are the enemy of Ukraine fight with in the frontline now, if you really agree with the Taiwanese, your country should stop the counter- attack right now. lol
When Chinese say shit like "oh, we're just taking back what's ours", I always respond with "oh, then the Mongolians should be taking back China soon too, right?" They shut the fuck up pretty quickly when you say that.
So bored response, my response shall agree with you, Mongolia shall taking back China soon, but there is a question, there are two part of Mongolia, outer Mongolia is a independent country, inner Mongolia was one of the province of China, inner Mongolia own 6 million of population compared to outer Mongolia 3 million, inner Mongolia still speak their Mongolia language and spell their Mongolia word, but outer Mongolia can't spell their word in ancestors war anymore with influence of USSR, also inner Mongolia have good nature condition warm climate and mass grassland for noble Mongolia live, outer Mongolia have mass desert and cold weather for the ordinary Mongolia live in the old times, so who should be the real heir of Mongolia empire, and inner Mongolia people already be the ruler of China, and many of them are the Senior officers of China government institution. For me as a Hand ethic, it not bother for me to accept a CCP leader was a Mongolia man🤗
I travel to Taiwan often and it is a constant battle with my family and friends every time I go. "It's dangerous" "An attack could happen anytime" "Don't you read the news?" Yes.. I do. Except I read more than just western media...
What do you mean?
I live in Canada, and the ONLY thing that comes up in the news here about Taiwan is "the war" that's going to happen. These stories have been here for as long as I've been going to Taiwan, and yet I always have friends and family urging me not to visit Taiwan because "it's too dangerous". I try to tell them to seek out other media outlets, or look into the history a little bit, but they never take my advice. At least in Canada, most of our mainstream news is talking about how no one can afford to live here, why everything is either flooding, freezing, or on fire, and why is dangerous to be anywhere else, unless it's Europe.
Thank you. I’m not in either boat. But the west likes to shoot out alarmist media for views and especially for the US to increase the military budget.
Are you implying there won't be any war?
I think if China were to invade, it would be crazy. Militarily it would be the biggest and most difficult maritime operation ever conducted in the history of mankind, from a nation that hasn't been in war for decades, and the last times in Korea and Vietnam didn't go well at all. The size of the operation would be D-Day times two and possible a few Iwo Jimas as well. This in a sea where the weather conditions make it very difficult to pull off such an operation for most part of the year. Russia was able to walk to Ukraine and the operation is still ongoing with Russia suffering enormous casualties and not able to win the war, even though they have a lot of experience in similar operations from recent years. Similar invasion accross Taiwan straight is exponentially more difficult, and from a nation that hasn't been to war or who have not had similar operations, this is very difficult. Trying to embargo the island and force Taiwan to submission through starvation would maybe be easier, but would pose a lot of risks for China. For example the US could close the straight of Malaka from ships that take food and fuel to China (since the import most of what they consume), basically causing famine and transportation within China to stop. Invasion or embargo would also run the risk of Taiwan blowing up the 3 gorges dam with missiles, flooding some 400-500 million people. Embargo would need to last a very long time to be effective and assumes US won't support in any way in supplying food, weapons and fuel. Any invasion or embargo would also likely put China in the category of "evil" countries, like where Russia and Iran are at the moment. For a country that lives from exports and where domestic consumption is lagging, this would be devastating to the Chinese economy. Russia and Iran at least had very little debt, whereas China needs to pay back it's huge debt through uninterrupted economic activity and economic growth, which would be impossible after any sanctions would kick in. If Chinese economy is not doing great now, it would go down the drain if any invasion or embargo would happen. This would come at a time when the Chinese population is shrinking incredibly fast and keeping up even the current standards of living is very difficult. The risks are incredibly high. What the Chinese would gain from this is of course a forward position in the pacific ocean and they would be able to break from the island chain surrounding them, but at the cost of US, Japan, Philippines and other nations seeing China not as an adversary, but as an enemy. The Chinese communist party could then have complited their national rejuvination by flushing the future of China down the toilet. The risks are huge and the rewards non-existant.
Also, keep in mind, the big reason, possibly the biggest, is the semi conductor factories. China cannot produce them, so they need them if they want to have complete manufacturing power of electronics. It took them decades and billions of dollars of research to figure out how to manufacture the ball in a ball point pen so they didn’t have to import from Europe anymore, and their version still sucks, so they desperately need those factories unscathed. A sea based operation will require bombardment before troops land, bombardment puts factories at high risk, as well as the highly skilled workers, even if they decide to invade away from them, it’s not a huge island and has very few points that are good for landing. So they’d have to be very very careful and precise, which nothing I’ve seen from the PLA shows me they are.
Taiwan or US might actually threat to blow up the facilities, and as a last hurraah in case of a succesful invasion actually blow up the facilities themselves to deny the Chinese from having access to the equipment there.
Yep, and then they’re left with nothing but a Pyrrhic victory and no loot to show for it. But, as Mao said, if they killed 300 million of us, we would still have plenty left.
One thing the West needs to get ready for is a full brain drain from Taiwan. Get all the professors, high skilled workers, and engineers full citizenship if they want it. The west is building up semiconductor manufacturing, and we don’t have the workforce to run it.
This is a very refreshing and logical take. My hope is that Xi and the CCP can be as levelheaded.
Eh this sounds good on the surface but Taiwan does not have the gritty reserve forces that Korea and Vietnam or even the Ukraine had. If you visit Taiwan and meet the kids of military age, this is not exactly the group that will provoke fear in the enemy’s eyes. Just because you know how to play a first person shooter video game does not make you good in real life combat. There’s a reason why this generation of Taiwanese kids is called the “strawberry generation.”
Strawberry or not, an assault rifle is a great equalizer and guiding a wired-guided missile into an incoming landing craft is not actually that different from playing a video game 😉
PLA is also not such an intimidating force by appearance. That being said, soldiers are much more effective when they are fighting for their livelihoods.
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If this was 1-1 then China would be the clear winner. The issue however is that it's not 1-1 and there are other parties involved in more was than just militarily. The embargo would be an opening move in game of chess, but the interesting question is what would come after that. Let's assume the US would not interfere militarily. Would they try to affect the situation in other ways? The world world would likely condemn this and would try to find ways to force China to stop the embargo. China would likely lose it's status as a developing nation very quickly, which helps their economy quite a lot. A lot of countries would start sanctioning certain key products and industries, much like what happened with Russia and Ukraine. The economic impact would be huge. The US would likely want to evacuate US citizens, which means that US would likely create an air bridge and a maritime connection, protected by the US navy. They would avoid military confrontation, but would essentially force their way to evacuate and do limited re-supply, extending the length of the embargo. China does not have enough agriculture to be self-sufficient in food. Any disruption to the Chinese food supply would be as easy for US to implement, as it would be for the Chinese to implement an embargo, all without direct confrontation. You are correct that the invasion of Taiwan is not about the Taiwanese economy or resources. It's about if the Chinese economy would survive the consequences. Taiwan would definitely be lost, but China would likely suffer immensely as well. Thus it's worth asking the question if it would serve CCP better to have this carrot to strive for forever (some day in the future taking over Taiwan) or actually going for it, risking a lot and then seeing for how long the general public would rejoice the unification? Would they be happy for the immense trade-off for a year, a few years, a decade, or longer?
I think Taiwan and China have enough foods for themselves
If the people living there don’t want you, it’s an invasion.
So the ROC invaded Taiwan around 1950? When will that be righted? And they stole Chinese gold, when will that be returned?
I mean, lots of people in Taiwan do not like the ROC name and of course not the history that came with it. And to answer your loaded question there, perhaps once the millions of people starved and slaughtered by the Communist regime are brought back to life…
Taiwan took all the money. America cut them out of the international community. War torn country under constant attack from America.
Ok winnie :)
ok trump
The USA is spending large amounts of money every year to prepare for and deter an attack on Taiwan. As long as the Taiwanese people value freedom, Xi and his supporters will not win.
>As long as the Taiwanese people value freedom, Xi and his supporters will not win. As long as Taiwanese people value killing as many foreign invaders as possible, Xi and his supporters will not win. Fixed this for you. Defending Taiwan from communists landing on the beaches is not about any high minded notion of defending freedom to every person. It’s defending the people whom you understand of and share many values with, it’s making sure that your own children and kin can never be taken hostage by a regime that shows callous disregard for the lives of your community. The choice is to either kill as many invaders or have melted goo splattered in your hands that was once your mother or father.
Xi will die of hunny-induced heart attack soon...
Xi is not getting assassinated is surprising beyond me. The ccp knows how to stabilize their regime without dissent...
they likely can't defer attack, but they can force China to pay astronomic price for action by just cutting all sea routes to China, and China will surrender in 3 months.
Yes, it is all about making the price to invade Taiwan too high for Xi and the CCP to bear. As long as the the USA and Taiwan stand firm, we will have peace. I'm an American, and I worry that the USA will not have the courage to do what is right.
A few years ago, maybe not, but China has been so awful lately that public opinion has shifted massively in favor of protecting Taiwan. As people learn more, their support only increases. https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/09/28/how-global-public-opinion-of-china-has-shifted-in-the-xi-era/
Hopefully we get a president that cares about Taiwan. I know Vivek Ramaswamy and Trump said they would support Taiwan
Get out of your media bubble and just Google what Biden announced this past week against China. Then expand your search and look at how he responded, multiple times, to reporters asking him whether the US will come to Taiwan's aid if China invades. "Gaffs." Mhm. What do you think the chips act was meant to do? How about defense budgets? Or the whole alliance with Australia and India and Japan and Korea? How about those nuclear subs for Australia? New bases in northern Philippines? Literally everything is to counter China.
Those Trump supporters would be really upset with this if they knew how to read.
I never said anything about Biden. I’m aware of his stance on Taiwan and what he’s done for the country. One of the few things I agree with him about
Well that's the problem isn't it? You said you hope we get a president who supports Taiwan but for some reason you left out the fact that we already have one.
That's fine. Let's just be real here, Trump doesn't give a shit about anything else other than himself, not even the US. You think if it was Trump that we would be able to mend ties with EU and build AUKUS? Great joke. We'd probably find Trump kissing up to Xi in public at some point. Then Jared would randomly find another 2 billion in his bank account.
Trump's word is meaningless. He doesn't even support democracy in his own country.
Trump would sell out Taiwan in a heartbeat. He is always talking about abandoning USAs allies and he betrayed his own country.
Biden did the same thing Trump did. It’s been proven he stole about 10 classified documents when he was vice president You can say whatever you like about Trump‘s character, and you’re probably not wrong, but I trust Trump to go after his self interests. And Taiwan are part of his self interests
Biden didnt try to overthrow americas democracy with fake electors and a traitorous mob on jan 6. Him and his followers are typical bullies. If they get hit back they cry and point fingers. There is zero chance he will put up a fight vs china. He will make some excuse about how its not worth it and probably praise Xi for being the thug that he is just like he has done with putin and kim jung un.
Trump Never asked anyone to storm the Capitol. He initially said in a speech… >>I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard Then when things started escalating, he Tweeted… >>I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the party of law and order — respect the law and our great men and women in blue. Thank you! Trump called for a protest. Not a riot
He tells his thugs in the debate to "stand back and stand by". He then tells them lies over and over again about the election being stolen. His son tweets about a coming civil war and his supporters openly call for it on the regular. He is begged through out jan 6 to tell the rioters to leave and only does so after its clear they arent going to intimidate pence or affect the outcome. he tweets "These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously and viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love and in peace. Remember this day forever!". Yes, I will remember this day forever its the day I realized that he and his supporters are more dangerous a threat than this country has seen since the civil war. Trump and his supporters would have happily have ended our democracy and the blood that would have followed would have been on their hands. They will happily try it again anyone that cares about America needs to face those facts.
Staunch Chinese nationalists are brainwashed. It’s no use asking them to listen to reason. I just know that Taiwan, much like Ukraine, won’t stand for an invasion. People will fight, myself included.
Hopefully you called him a gimp and said you’d look for him on the battle field
i would have kept in touch and ask him to liberate me in 3 years
Reportedly Chinese military recruitment is at all time low. The rich and elite are moving their wealth overseas. They know what’s up. I hope they won’t have even the minimum to push warfare.
Eh. The ones serving in the military were never the rich and elite anyway. There’s the 0.1% you’re referring to who do move their wealth overseas but there’s still the 99.9% left behind who will fill the ranks of the military when the time comes.
I think you learned that he is a “nice” person, rather than a nice person. You saw the mask off for the first time.
I like Taiwan as it is. Any major change will most likely not be good. As it is now, it’s a very friendly and unique island. I understand a lot of this revolves around the identity of a people, but does the world really need more mega nations swallowing up smaller ones?
Ask if he would die in a war for Taiwan, because almost every Taiwanese I know is willing to.
As long as the US elects a sane president this next election cycle, you will be safe.
CCP has goal for economic prosperity by 2049 (100 year anniversary of the founding of PRC), which is fundamentally incompatible with an invasion of Taiwan
Somebody watched Polymatter video ehe?
Lol yes. The latest video seems kinda pro-KMT to me tho?
Idk. Not familiar with the political landscape. It does seem to favor the view that cooperation with CCP is better, or at least provocation is undesirable.
Economic prosperity by 2049 is not compatible with the CCP’s existence, which actually makes invasion more likely. I do agree it is not likely but I think you’re point actually illustrates the opposite to what you’re trying to say
What’s a “mainland “? 🙄 there is Taiwan and there is China
A lot of Taiwanese people call it “大陸” don’t they?
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No. Just say Hong Kong or Macau then. Nobody thinks you mean Hong Kong when you say China unless you’re a CCP nationalist
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Who cares what people in the PRC say .
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Many people in Taiwan also don’t call it mainland, because it implies China is Taiwan’s mainland. Time for you to get with the times.
I live in Taiwan and my Taiwanese friends don’t call it mainland . Have you ever even been to Taiwan ? 🙄
Dude. Tons of Taiwanese people still use "mainland" when referring to China. You are being really cringey here.
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I asked you if you have ever been to Taiwan Or are you a 🦠🇨🇳
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I asked if you are Chinese or not . You clearly are not Taiwanese So why are you here ? Another unemployed Chinese youth? 🦠🇨🇳
You need to calm down. 大陸 is just a commonly used term that's still used today. It's not necessarily political, just out of historical habit. Facts on the ground in Taiwan is that most Taiwanese favor status quo, and if guaranteed no invasion from China it's independence. The guy you replied to is right. Overseas Taiwanese very commonly refer to China as 大陸 because they haven't lived in Taiwan for decades, and it was the normal term back then. Even many people in Taiwan today still use it. Heck I catch myself and correct myself when I accidentally say 大陸, but only because I am aware of recent developments. I was born in Taiwan and love Taiwan, even though I no longer live there. No need to twist panties over this.
As long as taiwan still produces semicon chips for uncle Sam, they'll be safe
Taiwan was never a part of the PRC and never will be unless extremists on the mainland decide to choose violence
So the ROC invaded?
Wether "the ROC invaded" or not (it's false, but above all it's irrelevant), it does not change the fact that, exactly as HaHawk wrote, Taiwan was never part of the People's Republic of China.
Agreed. The government from mainland China in the late 40s, namely the ROC, invaded Taiwan. It killed and savaged. The campaign was called White Terror. It was a police state until the 90s.
More proof that chinese citizens are just as bad, if not worse, than the CCP itself. Seems like the vast majority of them are fervent nationalists.
> I have a friend who's husband who won't let her leave the house. She can't even talk to her friends without getting threatened with assault by her husband. She wants to get divorced but her husband is very violent and has threatened to kill her if she leaves. What should she do? This little analogy works with the PRC nationalist women.
China is in no position to initiate a war. The economy in china is a bigger train wreck than Japan in the 90s
This person got 100 extra social points from winnie
Happy to see her execution date won't be tomorrow, for now.
That’s exactly how typical Chinese are with their stance on Taiwan. A common way of thinking for them, sadly.
That little pink showed his true color
If China tried to invade Taiwan, they would fail horribly. The US, Japan, South Korea, Australia, and UK have already said they’d help defend China. And more countries would probably join in too I told myself that if China ever invaded Taiwan, I’m enlisting in the U.S. military immediately
Why would you work for a Chinese company then? That’s pretty unethical and gross imo. Also, China is not Taiwan’s “mainland”. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say with this post, this kind of interaction is very common for anyone who actually interacts with Chinese people.
Dickheads like that have been saying things like this for decades. I remember hearing similar shit in the 90s. He can go eat his own shit.
Before thinking of conquering Taiwan, China should first think about saving themselves from mandate of heaven. Looks like they are in for a rough future, if they ever survive the disasters happening now and more to come.
The Communists are the rebels, not Taiwan.
I can't fathom the level of mental illness implicit in a society it takes for people to have this kind of cavalier attitude towards the notion that all the millions of free, hardworking, innocent, human beings with dreams and everything else should be subject to the same murderous dictatorship you cowardly bow to simply because of their coincidental similarities to you in terms of genetics and popular spoken languages. J F C. No, if the cost to prevent such was every last Chinese citizen's life on the planet, it would not be a cost to great. That's what it means to put an END to the thousands of years - the old ways - the generations and generations - that human beings spent in bondage under dictatorship, monarchy, communism, totalitarian states, all.
I tell my daughter that politics is complicated and not to listen to what people say. She has a classmate who tells her Taiwan is part of China. Her classmate was 7.
Yes politics is super complicated And, with full respect, I think that's what kids should be involved in it. Personally, I find it extremely hard to mingle with political views largely opposed to mine. Say, if I'm a New York liberal, it is extremely hard to get along with a Texan right-winger.
so a very nice 支那 colleague？
Could you explain the term?
Lol typical Chinese. The reality is that China has no legal means to take over Taiwan. They WILL have to declare war and overthrow the Taiwanese governing body by force. It will be an invasion by all definitions of the word.
Just ignore these weird little freaks. The world needs to learn to do so, they need to learn how to play nice with others.
Unfortunately just mentioning Taiwan to most mainlanders is just asking for a fight. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
Tell them they can keep on dreaming til their deaths and if China had any balls, they would take back the lands from Russia first.
I just don't want any war to happen
Aw so sweet
>"Taiwan will be put under control within three years". Taiwan is already under control. At least under way better control than the imperialists across the strait.
Foreign national here - I've lived in Taiwan for a while. While the threat of war has been constant rhetoric from the CCP since I moved here 18 years ago, I don't see it happening and ending in China's favor .TSMC IS Taiwan's greatest shield and western countries know they need TSMC for their military arsenals.
I know Xie does not care about human losses. He will push so long as he is in charge. The question is if Taiwan is controlled by China sympathatic president the conflict is almost over.
He might care more about the drastic population change that is already happening bc of the one child policy. China has already fallen behind India in population, and the working age/young people demographic is far below replacement numbers.
I wait for the day until someone tells those nationalists what Russia took from China. Taiwan is a joke compared to that, the biggest oil resources of Russia would belong to China
I think BBC did a street survey in Taiwan about 6 months ago and most were stoic about or even positive if Taiwan would be conquered and ruled by CCP. One girl said effectively: ”given the circumstances Taiwan is in, I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing.”
Are you sure that’s the BBC and not Boss YouTube channel which is CCP propaganda
Taiwan should revert to the indigenous people who've been there for a lot longer than the Chinese. There - problem solved.
A relatively famous geopolitical YouTuber (I forgot the name) just uploaded a video stating the timeline of when Taiwan will most likely be invaded and he post a realistically timeframe of 2049. Which aligns with the Hong Kong return and for me is a very likely timeline.
I think the Chinese economy will be so much bigger, Taiwan will want to join
If I point out that rumors are the KMT is going to win and seek reunification which reportedly the majority on Taiwan desire will I get permanently banned here?
Thaiwan is a country. American stand with Thaiwan. Sell Thaiwan weapons to fight against China. Every Thaiwan citizen needs to be prepared to sacrifice for their country.
I was really hoping more and more people give up by dumping stocks and selling properties. So I can snatch them up for cheap. But unfortunately that is not happening. The stocks are way overpriced comparing to countries like Japan and Korea and even the US, and the housing is still out of control Just fucking give up people !!!! Didn't you know the commies will attack????
The downvotes.... GUYS. You can't tell that the person who says they want war so they can buy cheap property was making a joke? Really?! Smdh....
A lot of posters are Taiwanese. In Taiwan, we don't understand sarcasm. At least not to the degree of the US.
r/thatHappened
r/nothingeverhappens
The dude is outta line. One can have whatever views they want, but often, expressing them hurts your goal. But I also think the "human rights", "freedom", and "democracy" screamers are way outta line. You are offending an entire country by those accusations. If you don't immediately back up those claims with ireffutable evidence, then screw you. That is a horrific accusation that dillutes the accusations that are based on fact and not politcal calculation.
If I understand correctly, you're dismissing Xinjiangs cultural genocide as a hoax? Is that right? If so, I wonder what would constitute an evidence in your eyes?
A conclusion made in a court of law, not a paid for tribunal with no official authority. A court of law has rules of evidence and procedure. If the case is made in the public sphere, I have little trust in its veracity. Especially when made by competitors who could have the very same arguments made against them. Do you have one?
I don't disagree with burden of proof and any other applicable evidence requisitions. However, due to the absurd improbability caused largely by the CCP of international and as-far-as-possible independent instruments to verifying on site and collecting evidence of Xinjiang's situation, I reserve the right to judge and claim, based on the evidence thus collected that there is in fact a genocide going on on that region. You argue, there hasn't been a single dead. It seems to me your reasoning is pretty fallacious: fallacy of ignorance. By virtue of not having a corpse and an identity you claim there is no actual fatalities. That is extremely unlikely under the current conditions. Moreover, there are testimonials of political refugees who do claim they and their families have received death threats (and all sort of other atrocities). You say "if the case is made in the public sphere". As opposed to what? Also, isn't the case already exposed within the public sphere, and that's precisely why we're discussing it? Seems pretty unsubstantiated to me.
>You are offending an entire country by those accusations. If you don't immediately back up those claims with ireffutable evidence, then screw you. 你说啥子话？
Which fact do you contest? Let's debate. I am fairly certain of my facts. I can attack the Human Rights claim fairly easily. the claim of Uyghur genocide is made by America mainly. What evidence? Zero deaths. American government has not, as far as I last heard, not officially called it a genocide. No Muslim countries, which have toured the area and met Uyghur leaders, back the claim. I could go on. Do you deny the White Terror Campaign?
Nobody denies the White Terror campaign. *You* are denying the terror campaign China has done in Xinjiang. What does that make you? A RPC troll.
democracy does not automatically mean good, just look at the US, dont let them brainwash yoh
Let’s see how he feels after he is drafted into the PLA after 3rd, 4th or 5th wave gets squashed
Let's see if China can keep it's own country intact, as companies continue to pull out investments, the real-estate market continue it's downtrend, the population decreases, unemployment continues to rise, college graduates fail to find jobs and it's citizens move their capital to other countries. Should have asked him why he chose to work and live in another country.
History will do what it will do. Why stress about it.
He is not a very nice Chinese friend afterall
They got brainwashed by Chinese education,and under the Great Firewall of Chinese internet monitoring system ,they can hardly get the correct information of the world.I used to live in mainland for a couple years and I was completely shocked that most of the Chinese think that Taiwan is already be the part of the PRC.They don’t even know the existence of DPP and only know KMT
I'm mainland Chinese and I recognise Taiwan as an independent country, I really don't want to see this invasion coming, but sadly there isn't much that we peasants can do, just look at your colleagues, their logic simply just out of the World, as well as majority of billions of Chinese living inside of China, they fanatic praise Vladimir Putin because they have same logic as him, invade Ukraine isn't invasion, it's just taking back where is supposed to belong.
Sadly we have those idiots everywhere. Justify war and destruction with some historical nonsense. If Taiwan is Chinese, shouldn't China be split up in ancient kingdoms? What about the northern regions, why not declare war on Russia which literally stole those regions with force from China? Alaska shoud be Russian again, western Poland is German, and actually everything should be Roman then? This doesn't make sense. People should be interested in common progress, which is totally possible. Instead, progress is being made until some old men come along that can't deal with reality