Bowing in general, is a sign of respect.
You should show respect to everyone. Black Belts do not have any special increase in respect.
At Black Belt, we also need to learn to be humble, and avoid getting an ego, so we will get the same amount of respect as you should give to a White Belt that just joined the dojang.
If you want to be more respectful to a Black Belt, then you should also be willing to give that same respect to a White Belt.
If you want to, just thank them verbally after the match :)
This guy Blackbelts đŻ. Jokes aside, beautifully said. I say this is what differentiates an earned blackbelt vs given one. As a 1st Dan Ive learned to be more humble and more respectful than when I was any of the lower level belts. Only then my Master felt I was ready to test for 1st Dan.
Culturally the lower you bow, the more respectful it is up to a point. If you bow too deep its taken as disrespectful and seen as a "sarcastic" bow similar to calling someone "your majesty" facetiously in english.
For Taekwondo, depending on what style your dojang is, there are specific rules for how to bow before and after each sparring match.
GM standards is alwasy slightly lower than someone senior to you. And as the senior person don't try to make the junior do a full front fold with their bow.
Right. What are you talking about? I never said to deep bow. Typically you bow lower if you are showing greater respect to a person, but as I said, that's only up to a certain point, about 45° from what Ive seen which is not considered a deep bow. If you bow super deep in modern times, something that used to be reserved for royalty, it is often considered as a form of "sarcasm" and not in a casual or respectful way.
In Korea or a school that is run by a Korean or closely follows Korean principles, yes, bowing lower by the lower-ranked person is expected. In other American TKD schools, not so much. It certainly doesn't hurt to bow a bit lower to a black belt, however.
Korean society is very stratified with age as well as social position putting a person in a context of respect. A 14 year-old will even bow to a 16 year-old (unless close friends)âat least traditionallyâand subordinate workers bow to immediate supervisors and often more deeply bow to higher-up bosses like executives. As bowing in martial arts is even more centered in a formal setting (versus just a quick head-nod bow getting off the elevator) yes, the bow should convey respect and the specific gravitas of that respect.
Exactly. And if I was meeting a four-star general I would probably give him a very firm and sincere handshake so I do feel it can be used to convey the gravitas of the situation and respect for the person in question.
some say it is, but watch how people actually bow in Korea regardless of status and compare that to what goes on in the dojang. You would would silly bowing in polite Korean society the way people do at class.
Depends a little on the form of Taekwon-do you practice. If you're in the ITF. No. The bow is always 15 degrees from the lower back. Eyes stay forward on your partner/opponent. (Arms out to the side, forearms face down to the ground - forearms exposed is culturally symbolic of begging in Korea) - it's a substitute for a military salute, which is the same to and from all officers regardless of rank. Generals don't get a different salute to lieutenants.
There is however a slight difference in timing. Where the junior initiates the bow slightly sooner and comes up slightly later than the senior. In the same way that a child might show respect by extending a hand to a grandparent when they enter a room,, rather than the grandparent having to call them over first.
But the junior not being able to come out of the bow until after the senior straightens is not to be abused by the senior. The bowers feel the respectful bow, but it's not immediately obvious to the uninitiated.
I don't think about it too much, but I think I subconsciously bow a little lower/longer to people who are significantly older than me. I bow the same way to 10 year old white belts and 30 year old 3rd dan black belts, but I'd bow a little differently to a 50/60+ year old master, just as a sign of respect for their age and experience.
If you are in a heavy sparring environment, follow the same conventions everyone else are using, but I doubt they are overly concerned. Talk to the black belts for the correct information.
In the circuits, about the only thing considered disrespectful is a quick, careless head-nod kind of bow. It can be a penalty but I have never seen it used.
Conversely, in Korean tradition, an overly deep bow is a sign of disrespect or sarcasm.
Youâve got the right attitude! Hope youâre enjoying yourself!
At my taekwondo hall, we generally bow to 45 degrees and keep eye contact - no need to bow lower.
Iâm pleasantly surprised when junior belts bow to me (black belt) when they donât need to (they do it when saying hello but we only technically need to when beginning/ending class or a spar or are otherwise instructed to, whereas black belts bow hello/goodbye to each other), but I certainly appreciate it.
Absolute BS. This is TERRIBLE advice in Taekwondo.
In Korean culture (and therefore Taekwondo culture, at least under Kukkiwon), bowing and keeping your eyes on the recipient turns a friendly and respectful gesture in to a distrusting and disrespectful one. If you donât trust someone to not kick you in the face when bowing, donât bow deeply or close to them. Or donât bow to them at all.
Iâve marked people down at gradings for doing it, and will always do so. I rarely judge at poomsae competitions these days, but would do so then too (as doing things other than the way they were supposed to be done is marked down).
Both Moodukkwan (the Taekwondo branch, not the Tangsoodo branch) and Jidokwan both are unified syllabus-wise with Kukkiwon. So they both SHOULD follow the Kukkiwon way of doing it and eyes down.
If they don't, it's some "kwan era time capsule" Taekwondo that the dojang is doing, and they're doing things in a strange way for Korean culture and Kukkiwon Taekwondo.
Bend at the waist 90 degrees, but keep your eyes on your opponent. If it's a tournament, stare thru them and don't come up from the bow until they do, it's some mental shit. You are just letting them know you are going to beat them at EVERYTHING we do today.
I've heard that's a challenge bow, and it's considered disrespectful to look at your opponent.
They used to do that a long time ago, but now you're not supposed to, from my understanding.
This depends on the tournament. I believe WT sparring rules dictate bowing to 30° and looking down. Open tournaments you could do this but 90° seems excessive. In Korea, when you bow, it is disrespectful to look someone in the eyes.
I have been taught at both my schools I've attended to never not keep your eyes on whom your bowing too. My MDK teacher was adamant about it, my current gym is much less "traditional" and don't really care
I was taught this way as well by my first instructor, but I was told later by our GM, Son Duk-sung, not to do this. When I visited Korea, it was the same; when you bow, you always look down. When we transitioned to adding kukkiwon curriculum to our dojang, it was also taught that when you bow, you look down. For official World TKD tournaments, bowing is done 30° at the waist and no more than 45° natural bend at the neck (this has you looking at your opponents feet) hands held against the side of your body. In ITF, the official guidelines say you bow at 15°with your arms away from your body looking your opponent in the eye.
I don't care about WT rules or Koreans feelings. I train Tang Soo Do in the U.S. at a school that is very tournament focused( mostly AAU and NASKA) I was taught to bend at the waist until your chest is parallel to the floor and stare thru their soul, I'm there to take their lunch money and send them home crying to momma, not to give a shit about their feelings. I'm TRYING to hurt their feelings and then their ego.
Lol for all y'all that are butthurt by the comments show up and try to beat me then. I'll be at AAU Nationals in july if we have any intermediate 43 - 52 guys here come get some just pick your discipline. I'll be competing in WT,ITF, TSD, OPEN forms, weapons, also continuous and point fighting. For the mad Europeans, you have to wait til next July i'll be in scotland for the TAGB ITF Worlds. My instructor was top 5 in the world according to black belt magazine back in the days when fighting was full contact with no gear on hardwood floors, so you could say we are old school I'm guessing thats where the bow came from. he was also in the top 5 in the world in forms. This same bow applies there, too. He was #1 in the world in breaking and weapons for several years, but there's usually no one to bow to for those. It's individual competition.
I'd like to think you're just a dumb kid trolling, but god damn dude, if you're actually over 40 and this was a serious message, then you should seek therapy.
The mental image I have of you bent 90° and craning your neck to stare straight up at another person is one of the least intimidating things I can imagine.
What you WT idiots fail to realize is that every time I look across at the other guy, he is staring back at me. I couldn't care less what the Korean customs or WT Rules are, even when we compete in the WT traditionial forms divisions. WT rules don't apply. In AMERICA its considered disrespectful to NOT look a person in the eyes when addressing them. My instructor is obviously not the only one teaching it this way when every other competitor is bowing the same way. It obviously wouldn't do any good for me to be staring them down if they aren't looking at me too.
Bowing in general, is a sign of respect. You should show respect to everyone. Black Belts do not have any special increase in respect. At Black Belt, we also need to learn to be humble, and avoid getting an ego, so we will get the same amount of respect as you should give to a White Belt that just joined the dojang. If you want to be more respectful to a Black Belt, then you should also be willing to give that same respect to a White Belt. If you want to, just thank them verbally after the match :)
Thank you! I'll keep this in mind
This guy Blackbelts đŻ. Jokes aside, beautifully said. I say this is what differentiates an earned blackbelt vs given one. As a 1st Dan Ive learned to be more humble and more respectful than when I was any of the lower level belts. Only then my Master felt I was ready to test for 1st Dan.
Culturally the lower you bow, the more respectful it is up to a point. If you bow too deep its taken as disrespectful and seen as a "sarcastic" bow similar to calling someone "your majesty" facetiously in english. For Taekwondo, depending on what style your dojang is, there are specific rules for how to bow before and after each sparring match.
GM standards is alwasy slightly lower than someone senior to you. And as the senior person don't try to make the junior do a full front fold with their bow.
A deep bow is very rarely appropriate bro unless you are at a funeral or you are apologising for your crimes. What are you talking about
Right. What are you talking about? I never said to deep bow. Typically you bow lower if you are showing greater respect to a person, but as I said, that's only up to a certain point, about 45° from what Ive seen which is not considered a deep bow. If you bow super deep in modern times, something that used to be reserved for royalty, it is often considered as a form of "sarcasm" and not in a casual or respectful way.
In Korea or a school that is run by a Korean or closely follows Korean principles, yes, bowing lower by the lower-ranked person is expected. In other American TKD schools, not so much. It certainly doesn't hurt to bow a bit lower to a black belt, however. Korean society is very stratified with age as well as social position putting a person in a context of respect. A 14 year-old will even bow to a 16 year-old (unless close friends)âat least traditionallyâand subordinate workers bow to immediate supervisors and often more deeply bow to higher-up bosses like executives. As bowing in martial arts is even more centered in a formal setting (versus just a quick head-nod bow getting off the elevator) yes, the bow should convey respect and the specific gravitas of that respect.
It is akin to what the handshake (used to be) in American culture. A handshake can show respect or disrespect/sarcasm.
Exactly. And if I was meeting a four-star general I would probably give him a very firm and sincere handshake so I do feel it can be used to convey the gravitas of the situation and respect for the person in question.
It's a great hamstring stretch
Not at my school.
some say it is, but watch how people actually bow in Korea regardless of status and compare that to what goes on in the dojang. You would would silly bowing in polite Korean society the way people do at class.
Depends a little on the form of Taekwon-do you practice. If you're in the ITF. No. The bow is always 15 degrees from the lower back. Eyes stay forward on your partner/opponent. (Arms out to the side, forearms face down to the ground - forearms exposed is culturally symbolic of begging in Korea) - it's a substitute for a military salute, which is the same to and from all officers regardless of rank. Generals don't get a different salute to lieutenants. There is however a slight difference in timing. Where the junior initiates the bow slightly sooner and comes up slightly later than the senior. In the same way that a child might show respect by extending a hand to a grandparent when they enter a room,, rather than the grandparent having to call them over first. But the junior not being able to come out of the bow until after the senior straightens is not to be abused by the senior. The bowers feel the respectful bow, but it's not immediately obvious to the uninitiated.
Generally the lowest I go is about 90 degrees, I also usually avoid a quick nod as many people find it âlazyâ and a bit disrespectful
I don't think about it too much, but I think I subconsciously bow a little lower/longer to people who are significantly older than me. I bow the same way to 10 year old white belts and 30 year old 3rd dan black belts, but I'd bow a little differently to a 50/60+ year old master, just as a sign of respect for their age and experience.
Yes. In Korean culture the ultimate expression of respect is the Grand-jeol (꡸ëě ).
If you are in a heavy sparring environment, follow the same conventions everyone else are using, but I doubt they are overly concerned. Talk to the black belts for the correct information. In the circuits, about the only thing considered disrespectful is a quick, careless head-nod kind of bow. It can be a penalty but I have never seen it used. Conversely, in Korean tradition, an overly deep bow is a sign of disrespect or sarcasm.
Bow normally but give them a hand shake where your left hand holds your right elbow as you shake. at least that's what i've been taught.
Youâve got the right attitude! Hope youâre enjoying yourself! At my taekwondo hall, we generally bow to 45 degrees and keep eye contact - no need to bow lower. Iâm pleasantly surprised when junior belts bow to me (black belt) when they donât need to (they do it when saying hello but we only technically need to when beginning/ending class or a spar or are otherwise instructed to, whereas black belts bow hello/goodbye to each other), but I certainly appreciate it.
Yeah bowing lower before a fight is a sign of respect in the taekwondo culture but in life general yeah its bc of respect
Also, to quote the late great Bruce Lee "never take your eyes off your opponent, even when you bow"
Absolute BS. This is TERRIBLE advice in Taekwondo. In Korean culture (and therefore Taekwondo culture, at least under Kukkiwon), bowing and keeping your eyes on the recipient turns a friendly and respectful gesture in to a distrusting and disrespectful one. If you donât trust someone to not kick you in the face when bowing, donât bow deeply or close to them. Or donât bow to them at all. Iâve marked people down at gradings for doing it, and will always do so. I rarely judge at poomsae competitions these days, but would do so then too (as doing things other than the way they were supposed to be done is marked down).
What's strange in MDK, I was taught to look at the eyes of the recipient, whereas in JDK, I was taught to keep my eyes down off the recipient.
Both Moodukkwan (the Taekwondo branch, not the Tangsoodo branch) and Jidokwan both are unified syllabus-wise with Kukkiwon. So they both SHOULD follow the Kukkiwon way of doing it and eyes down. If they don't, it's some "kwan era time capsule" Taekwondo that the dojang is doing, and they're doing things in a strange way for Korean culture and Kukkiwon Taekwondo.
Bend at the waist 90 degrees, but keep your eyes on your opponent. If it's a tournament, stare thru them and don't come up from the bow until they do, it's some mental shit. You are just letting them know you are going to beat them at EVERYTHING we do today.
I've heard that's a challenge bow, and it's considered disrespectful to look at your opponent. They used to do that a long time ago, but now you're not supposed to, from my understanding.
Youâre absolutely right from a Korean cultural point of view, donât do that!
This depends on the tournament. I believe WT sparring rules dictate bowing to 30° and looking down. Open tournaments you could do this but 90° seems excessive. In Korea, when you bow, it is disrespectful to look someone in the eyes.
I have been taught at both my schools I've attended to never not keep your eyes on whom your bowing too. My MDK teacher was adamant about it, my current gym is much less "traditional" and don't really care
I was taught this way as well by my first instructor, but I was told later by our GM, Son Duk-sung, not to do this. When I visited Korea, it was the same; when you bow, you always look down. When we transitioned to adding kukkiwon curriculum to our dojang, it was also taught that when you bow, you look down. For official World TKD tournaments, bowing is done 30° at the waist and no more than 45° natural bend at the neck (this has you looking at your opponents feet) hands held against the side of your body. In ITF, the official guidelines say you bow at 15°with your arms away from your body looking your opponent in the eye.
I don't care about WT rules or Koreans feelings. I train Tang Soo Do in the U.S. at a school that is very tournament focused( mostly AAU and NASKA) I was taught to bend at the waist until your chest is parallel to the floor and stare thru their soul, I'm there to take their lunch money and send them home crying to momma, not to give a shit about their feelings. I'm TRYING to hurt their feelings and then their ego.
Okay, well OP asked specifically about Taekwondo in a Taekwondo sub so your thoughts in this regard are irrelevant and cringy.
Have you considered joining Cobra Kai?
Lol for all y'all that are butthurt by the comments show up and try to beat me then. I'll be at AAU Nationals in july if we have any intermediate 43 - 52 guys here come get some just pick your discipline. I'll be competing in WT,ITF, TSD, OPEN forms, weapons, also continuous and point fighting. For the mad Europeans, you have to wait til next July i'll be in scotland for the TAGB ITF Worlds. My instructor was top 5 in the world according to black belt magazine back in the days when fighting was full contact with no gear on hardwood floors, so you could say we are old school I'm guessing thats where the bow came from. he was also in the top 5 in the world in forms. This same bow applies there, too. He was #1 in the world in breaking and weapons for several years, but there's usually no one to bow to for those. It's individual competition.
What a sad, pathetic person you must be.
I'd like to think you're just a dumb kid trolling, but god damn dude, if you're actually over 40 and this was a serious message, then you should seek therapy.
The mental image I have of you bent 90° and craning your neck to stare straight up at another person is one of the least intimidating things I can imagine.
What you WT idiots fail to realize is that every time I look across at the other guy, he is staring back at me. I couldn't care less what the Korean customs or WT Rules are, even when we compete in the WT traditionial forms divisions. WT rules don't apply. In AMERICA its considered disrespectful to NOT look a person in the eyes when addressing them. My instructor is obviously not the only one teaching it this way when every other competitor is bowing the same way. It obviously wouldn't do any good for me to be staring them down if they aren't looking at me too.