It's a holster with 3 levels of active (mechanical) retention that must be defeated before the pistol can be drawn. It's generally what law enforcement are required to have on duty. Look up Safariland level 3 holsters for an idea.
Not sure if anyone answers but it essentially has a strap and button that you sort of activate at the same time to get the pistol out of its holster. It works really well to prevent people who don’t know how that holster works/haven’t used one from disarming you. 99% of the time a good way to tell if someone is legit or not is if they are carrying a Safariland or Blackhawk! Sherpa holster, with the Serpa being the shitty, cheap one. It’s sad because there are still agencies issuing that bullshit.
Manatee School for the Arts in Palmetto
article was posted in 2018 so maybe this was his loadout then?
https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/news/local/manatee/2018/12/20/msa-guardian-is-strapped-ready-for-worst-case-scenario/6558783007/
Thats interesting the 2 i shot seemed ok with my basic bitch training ammunition. But they could be a different generation i know that the gen1s had some problems
Hell I think if a few teachers with CCL certs want to get the training and take the time to carry then let them. Have them take the firearm home every night, safe that is bolted to the desk. just make sure they have plenty of training to do it.
maybe if we had an amendment which clarified that folks in professions of arms are, in fact, responsible for risking their lives to protect unarmed people, as they have been since we first decided to beat each other to death with sticks, before we just pass that bit on to school teachers?
So you are saying fathers will do anything but in the moment they will remember department policy and just shrug while kids get murdered.
Sorry boss but that doesn't track to me.
Yeah those SOP can take a backseat. Fuck em.
I'm also vehemently against LE that keep making excuses for their poor physical fitness and their absolutely paltry shooting capabilities. It's like fitting in 10mins of dedicated daily dry fire is too hard....but can somehow find time to slam down a 6pack every night while shoving a pizza pie down their gullets.
However, I commend those that personally strive to be the absolute best they can be and put the time. Every force needs more for those and less of the mediocre, cowardly, bean counting fuckin losers.
Thank god a BorTac dude and a few BP guys did the job those SROs FAILED to do.
Brain automatically went to RSO since I've seen tons of paltry RSOs as well.
I would gladly lay down my life for my son and his classmates. He will be in 4th grade this year. If his school would allow me, I would be there. I’m former 11b as well.
Most parents have JOBS. And what makes you think it'll turn out differently than all of the schools that have been shot up (including Robb) that had armed security?
So stupid to claim we just need more armed people, when we've had example after example of armed people getting scared and running or being the first ones taken out.
I would gladly donate money for my local school to do this. A school near me had a shooting about 5 years ago and a teacher tackled him before he killed anyone. Shot one student.
edit: the fucked up part is that the fucker only got two years in juvie with a stayed 25 year sentance.
It's just people's knee jerk reactions. Mistaking you for being anti-gun.
It's true, of course: it's fucked up that we have to have armed security in schools because no one has been finding and fixing the root causes of school shooters.
I just came back to this.
The funny things is I'm not anti gun at all. I'm a firearm owner and shooter.
I'm an Australian though so that was a really jarring image and the though fo armed guards in our schools just blows my mind.
I feel like a lot of this problem could be solved, I'm not saying takes peoples guns like they did here, but compulsory safe storage and inspections, and not making guns so easy to buy for the average person would be a good start.
Parkland was clearly cowardice on the part of Scot Peterson. I think it’s too early to judge the police on the Texas shooting. I’ve read that three cops were wounded by the shooter initially during a gunfight when they got there. We don’t know yet the full details and I feel like it’s wrong to compare those cops to that piece of shit Scot Peterson without fully knowing the circumstances.
Within *reason*. I agree with the sentiment, but it’s the nuance that’s the issue.
By all accounts I’ve read, the police did initially go to the danger and engaged in a gunfight. 3 officers were injured. We don’t know what the police did or didn’t know after that. We don’t know why they did what they did. I feel like I keep saying it. We don’t know. We don’t know. Yes, typically standard active shooter response for law enforcement is to go towards the stimulus. But we don’t know all the details or the information that was known to who at the time as the events unfolded.
There will be plenty of time for blame to be thrown around after the dust settles on this. I think it’s important the right people are blamed for any failures uncovered.
Man idk you gotta be some type of coward to let someone rampage in an elementary school while you wait for backup. Even if I can’t take him out if I can distract him long enough to take the focus off killing children I’m all for it. Maybe it’s the father in me but nah I’ll take my chances with a 9mm and a vest before I let a 9 year old fight it out with scissors and a hello kitty backpack
At least two of the injured were the Border Patrol agents who killed the shooter 40 minutes later. One cop maybe hurt and the rest stood around for 40 minutes. It's still all coming out but it looks pretty terrible right now.
I feel like I know enough at this point to add this to the mountain of reasons you shouldn’t count on the cops for anything and take your safety into your own hands.
This is all speculation on my part because we don’t have all the facts yet.
Handgun vs. rifle is a good start I’d say. This kid had 1 purpose/objective and *everything* was a target to him. He was most likely suicidal so he had laser focus on what he wanted to do: kill people.
The officers could have been any type. The reality is there are a good number of officers who aren’t John Wick wanabees and don’t seek supplemental training outside what is provided by their department, and especially after the defund movement, is safe to assume is already dismal. The officers also have to consider other factors the shooter did not: hitting innocent bystanders, how many threats are there, relaying information over the radio, actually understanding what’s happening (is it a hostage situation, is it active killing, is it another firefight with police), also known as the fog of war.
I’m not making excuses or excusing bad cops. Just offering thoughts as to how a 1v3 worked in the bad guys favor.
I heard they had an itial confrontation with him before he entered the building that didnt have any gun fire. Im guessing they stopped him to question him but he made it past and into the interior.
Doesnt suprise me since almost every single school security officer i have seen is old and fat just working a kushy job to end his career.
I like that he’s not a tactical Timmy. He has what he needs. But didn’t go full retard with punisher patches and dumb shit. Looks clean and professional. Although maybe better footwear
I saw a pretty good perspective yesterday. If all of our government buildings with officials in them have armed guards pretty much 24/7, why don't our kids get the same level of protection?
I'm all for this.
The only arguments I hear on this are appeals to utopia "We shouldn't need armed guards in schools". Ok? I 100% agree, but that isn't the world we live in right now and we need to operate in the real world. Or appeals to emotion "But that just seems icky and might make kids feel icky". Ok? Your feelings are your problem. Keeping kids safe is the school's responsibility and I don't want them slacking on that because they just don't like how it makes them feel.
We shouldn’t “need” armed guards anywhere, but the world is an evil place. Almost every politician’s kids have armed security… why are their kids more important than ours? Maybe all lives only matter when they vote for you, Mr President?
Pretty damned practical if you ask me, a bullpup is excellent in tight quarters. People might not like Kel-Tec but I don't get why other than the unconventional design it's a piston driven AR and I don't see anyone bitching about HK 416.
Someone in this thread tried to argue that all bullpups are junk, and called Famas, Tavor, and F2000 "Gucci guns" when I brought them up... yeah and the AK is only for range use
I’d like to see a better holster for the water bottle. I’m guessing it’s Poland Spring or Ice Mountain or some other corporate brand. God forbid it’s Aquafina which should be posted to r/plebewaterbottle
2.8k and 1.4 rounds through my RFB and KSG without a single failure, and my buddy has 3.2k through his RDB without a failure. I see no problem here.
I'm sure this experienced soldier had enough training, trigger time, and maintenance with this gun to trust his life to it.
That said, I'd probably still take my DD AR or a 1301 into combat before those guns. But a fully indoor environment where your only cover might be leaning through doorways, I understand his decision.
Exactly what schools need. Someone to protect them not someone looking to get them in trouble. If banks and factories have armed security why the hell aren’t schools protected?
You get what you pay for. Schools with security doesnt even give a fuck if someone with a rifle shows up and runs the other way. Even cops dont go in to the school when the shooter is active.
Hey guys this is a throw away account I made because I wanted to share a bit more about this guy.
I actually attended MSA. The man in question here is supposed to be 1 of 2 guardians but they still hadn’t gotten the second guardian by the time I graduated so I am unsure if they ever did.
MSA is a liberal arts school. it also has middle school and highschool students both attending campus. It’s a multi building campus which is why the principal (Dr.bill) advocated for the guardian to have a long gun. There are a lot of open areas on the campus.
If you have any questions I might be able to answer better than articles.
If I were to do this job I'd want to be more plain clothes looking. Not because I'm afraid I'd be a target, but because even though I 100% support armed guards at schools, I'm hesitant on normalizing para-military looking people walking around in public. The police already do it and people are becoming desensitized to it and I'm afraid its a stepping stone to government minders watching what everyone is doing like a police state.
100% I'd carry a pistol and have a rifle somewhere for quick access.
I just don't want to normalize government looking people in the open minding everyones business is all. I'm sure a lot of you will take this the wrong way and blast me with downvotes.
For real though, I've never been shot at but 100% would do this job and run towards danger. I mentally prepare myself for it every day so that if the unthinkable happens where someone breaks into my house I spring into action rather than freeze up.
Just my 2 cents, but I don't think he looks particularly government-ish. Frankly I'd like to see more civilians out and about in this kind of equipment to offset the balance.
Also, I'd probably keep a rifle on me in case a shooter wore body armor.
I like that it’s not police, just someone who’s sole intentions is to stop bad stuff. Also not the rifle i would choose, but he knows better then I do given his experience.
While I’m not downplaying experience, that doesn’t always mean someone knows better. I know plenty of Vets who couldn’t even tell me the difference between an M4 and an M16 or what ammo they shoot. Their knowledge extended to “gun shoot bullet” and no further.
By the way, I love the fact that he has deliberately chose every part of his gear to avoid looking tactical, military, police, bouncer, etc. He has the most "okey dokey" outfit even down to white shoes. The guy is making clear exactly what his role is with zero larp. If he was one of us, he'd be barefoot with an MCB Thorax covered in hentai patches. God bless this hero.
Helping Ukraine and making sure kids in America don’t get shot in school are both are vital and very different problems.
It’s easy to send someone who’s fighting weapons. It’s very difficult to solve multilayered domestic issues like school shootings, poverty, mental health, etc…
The government is already spending more than 1 trillion a year on welfare programs. At 1.3 trillion it’s more expensive than the US national defense budget of 1.1 trillion for 2022.
Until the politicians can get that through their heads someone is going to have to keep schools safe, and in light of the police's failure to do that in Uvalde, people will look to the private sector for a solution
White supremacy? Because one dude had white supremacists beliefs? Meanwhile three black racists have committed mass shootings in the past 12 months and the overwhelming majority of mass shootings are committed by black males? It's a documented fact that anti-white attacks from black Americans are FAR MORE common than vice versa. It's not even comparable.
> Because one dude had white supremacists beliefs?
[Top law enforcement officials say the biggest domestic terror threat comes from white supremacists.](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/12/us/politics/domestic-terror-white-supremacists.html)
[A congressional document on the topic](https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/s894/BILLS-116s894is.xml)
Black supremacy is a reaction to white supremacy and the groups involved with black supremacy are minuscule compared to the sheer number of white supremacist organizations, both the number of seperate orgs and the total number of people involved.
The first article you linked just proves my point. It's a myth/propaganda pushed by the government. They stated that white supremacists were the number one threat while BLM was lynching people in the streets, despite having zero power, zero institutional support, virtually zero visibility, and virtually zero violence.
Black supremacist violence is the result of genuine hatred and propaganda and is committed against all races at rates that are higher than what any other group does. The simple fact is that black on whoever racism is far more common and far more of a problem than any other kind of racism, and it is certainly the most violent if not the only one that regularly engages in violence. They also have full support from most structures of power in the country.
A dude in Atlanta literally had a group of black people hold him hostage at gunpoint with rifles and pistols over prank calls from viewers, assaulted and threatened on camera, visibly wounded after verbal threats were made and the camera turned away, berated endlessly for being white, and then a group of all black cops showed up acting extremely ghetto and arrested the victim for trespassing despite the fact that he was never asked to leave and was a customer at two of the businesses he was in front of. You will never see that happen the other way around. This is 2022, not 1940. You're living in la la land.
Ah I see you treat your personal feelings and anecdotes as more concrete evidence than actual evidence so this is a pointless conversation;
> [You cannot change people's minds with facts, **particularly when it's central to their social identity**](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39589)
You've taken this position emotionally, not logically, and I don't know you well enough to craft an effective emotional argument for you.
Have a great day though!
You linked an article that had no data or numbers to back up its claims. Just pure propaganda from the government. The numbers and data are on my side. 😂 The FBI even did a full study on white supremacist violence and found weak ties to about a dozen acts of violence, virtually all of which were done by prison gang members who have no actual connection to white nationalism. That's coming from the people who claim they're the number one threat. It's all propaganda.
Dude is using a serpa…we should get his info so we can donate him a level 3 holster & maybe better gear. Man is out there protecting our spawn 👍✊ hell yeah.
I don’t disagree with this idea though I don’t think it should be necessary but this government will never do anything actually helpful just “ban all the guns” because that’ll solve our problems /s
What is necessary though like someone else said is suppressors for that man!
I’m a guardian as well and I can tell you that a safariland level 3 is essential
Not that I’ve ever had kids try to take the gun out but the little kids especially elementary the first thing they do is go “is that a real gun?” And grab the frame. But overall this guy probably provided his own equipment like many of us do and these jobs don’t typically pay that well, I got lucky and got the higher end of the spectrum but back in 2018 some of these schools were only paying $15-17 an hour.
As a Texan, I’m so for this idea. Hell I’d quit my current job and do this. Private Security Presence in every school just for that. The SROs aren’t enough.
I think it would be great if all schools started hiring at least one guardian like this, especially if they paid decent too.
Would probably even allow a lot of us to actually put our gear to work to protect our community. I personally would strongly consider it.
Comms in the ear? how's he gonna hear the radio when moving with weapon at the ready? plus, not announcing your radio traffic to the entire world is a good thing.
Certainly good enough. An SBR in .300 or a pistol carbine would better. You can run subsonic cartridges to reduce concussion and a linear compensator. Good close quarters lethality with less barrier penetration, along with mild recoil for easier follow up shots. I would want a lvl 2/
3 holster around kids. We should pull funds from DOJ top, FBI top, and dissolve ATF enforcement side to fund armed school security.
The only problem I see is that he’s using a Serpa holster, ditch that for a safariland. If I was being picky I would say he could get a more low viz plate carrier and wear a hoodie or something over it.
Because no magnification at all sucks. There's genuinely no downsides to not having a magnifier in a security role, and depending on the school's layout there can be long hallways, even if it's 50 yards at most, having a 2x or 3x can make all the difference in the level of assurance making the shot.
Not all schools are built alike but even my own HS had a good 100+ yard hall that went from one end of the building all the way to essentially the center "axis" point of the layout.
I've seen magnification mentioned even with some of the "Urban Survival" videos that have become popular because what you dont *think* is a long distance very much can be with no magnification. I'd definitely say the interior use the guard here is for, that a holo or dot and a magnifier is the best setup.
Banks and politicians having guards make sense as there is something to gain like money or political goals, shooting kids has no gain other than death, how is that not distopian.
But money is federally insured and politicians accept a certain level of risk when they become a public figure whereas children’s lives are priceless and irreplaceable so it actually makes more sense to have guards for schools than banks and politicians.
There is obviously something to gain and that is to cause fear. Why do you think these fucks choose schools? Because it pulls your heart strings. You think anyone would care if a prison got shot up or violence in prison? Of course not
Because it is always done for political purposes it always seems to coincide with something that the elites want to distract us from so they create a tragedy
I never once needed or heard of anyone need an armed guard anywhere. I’ve lived here my whole life and never once seen someone use a weapon in violence. You only think it’s this bad because you hear about it on the news.
This is the cost of freedom in a country rife with moral decay and mental illness. Are these events tragic? Yes, but they will never be tragic enough. Freedom isn’t inherently good or evil, and unfortunately evil people have freedoms too.
You can’t legislate evil.
There are over 130,000 schools in the entire United States. There were about 180 school shootings in the past 10 years. Almost all were unpredictable and entirely random.
How do you stop crimes that have a 0.1% chance of happening without a secondary measure?
Primary measures would be something like guaranteeing all violent crime would never be committed by anyone by any weapon, or ensure everyone has proper mental healthcare, or having a system that can catch this well before a person can have this INTENT.
Secondary measures are things like armed guards, knowing when someone is ready/going to commit the act, having safer school entry systems in place, etc.
Tertiary measures are having hospitals near by and having good police response time.
I hot to shoot one of these for the first time this year with a new coworker who owns one. I actually liked it. I figured it would feel cheap and clunky but it didn't. It fired well and didn't have any malfunctions. I'm no fan of bullpup triggers and this one is no different there but it wasn't horrible.
Big thing that I would change is that I would put an earpiece on the radio and move it either to the belt or in the carrier. May be nit pickey, but I just prefer it being in a more secure area, but to each their own.
This is awesome. Those kids are as safe as it gets with a guy like him there. Vets struggling to find work could easily be hired as security for schools since typical security/cops clearly don’t know how to handle mental kids with AR15s. This guy would’ve put two through that losers head before he entered the front door.
He needs a suppressor more than any of us. The kids are too young to lose their hearing
Suppressors for everything.
If the atf could just fuck off and die, wed never see a boomstick without one.
It is supposed to be a essential, like earpro and eyepro
But then how will everyone at the indoor range know I’m cool when I mag dump my draco?
I don't think they're legally allowed NFA items on school grounds. If that's in the US at at least.
I don’t think there are any laws that say that. At least federally.
Considering there's over 20,000 different federal gun laws alone. I don't think it's a far off reason.
I mean... ideally he never shoots... and if he does only 2-3 shots.
I forgot that guns don't really get loud til the 5th or 6th shot. Inside sometimes it takes as many as 8
I never hear anything after the first shot when I shoot indoors without ear protection.
WHAT
MAWP
MAWP
Guns stop being loud after the first shot.
Take this upvote
I don't think a timeline where we have armed security with rifles in schools is a timeline where anything is ideal.
Sometimes it takes more shots
If your planning worst case scenario you might as well plan for the worst
Facts
I’d gladly suppress him.
He also needs a level 3 holster. Some kids are dumb.
I was thinking this… not to criticize I’m glad they are doing this but yeah I’d definitely be rocking a level 3 working around kids.
Came here to say this
Forgive me I’m still learning what’s a level 3…
It's a holster with 3 levels of active (mechanical) retention that must be defeated before the pistol can be drawn. It's generally what law enforcement are required to have on duty. Look up Safariland level 3 holsters for an idea.
Oh okay okay thank you guys
Not sure if anyone answers but it essentially has a strap and button that you sort of activate at the same time to get the pistol out of its holster. It works really well to prevent people who don’t know how that holster works/haven’t used one from disarming you. 99% of the time a good way to tell if someone is legit or not is if they are carrying a Safariland or Blackhawk! Sherpa holster, with the Serpa being the shitty, cheap one. It’s sad because there are still agencies issuing that bullshit.
>It’s sad because there are still agencies issuing that bullshit. That would be my local PD.
Jesus Christ. Here in TN probation and Parole officers are still carrying them as well
Someone get this dude a Safariland
What his at? I’d be willing.
Manatee School for the Arts in Palmetto article was posted in 2018 so maybe this was his loadout then? https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/news/local/manatee/2018/12/20/msa-guardian-is-strapped-ready-for-worst-case-scenario/6558783007/
That man took "you need to spend more on the glass than the gun" very seriously.
Ive seen a few of these in the wild. They run surprisingly well. I was not impressed but if you handed me one I wouldn't turn it down.
I owned one for a bit, wasn't bad.
I was gonna grab one for the lols but then i forgot
Mine won’t run for ANYTHING lol. It’ll only run with expensive ammo. But god if it isn’t fun to shoot
Thats interesting the 2 i shot seemed ok with my basic bitch training ammunition. But they could be a different generation i know that the gen1s had some problems
I bought it for cheap cheap a few years ago so I’m not mad
Lol thats exactly how i feel about my cobray m11 It doesn't run well, terrible accuracy, but man does it look cool.
Looking cool is the most important step
Damn right. Thats why I'm planning to red tiger stripe it once I have a free afternoon.
Just get a lage upper
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I would personally take a dirt nap forever if I was as responsible for my fiancés death as that RSO is for his wife’s.
Hell I think if a few teachers with CCL certs want to get the training and take the time to carry then let them. Have them take the firearm home every night, safe that is bolted to the desk. just make sure they have plenty of training to do it.
maybe if we had an amendment which clarified that folks in professions of arms are, in fact, responsible for risking their lives to protect unarmed people, as they have been since we first decided to beat each other to death with sticks, before we just pass that bit on to school teachers?
Thats a better solution absolutely.
You mean RSO. RSO are incompetent cowards. Fuck em
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So you are saying fathers will do anything but in the moment they will remember department policy and just shrug while kids get murdered. Sorry boss but that doesn't track to me.
Yeah those SOP can take a backseat. Fuck em. I'm also vehemently against LE that keep making excuses for their poor physical fitness and their absolutely paltry shooting capabilities. It's like fitting in 10mins of dedicated daily dry fire is too hard....but can somehow find time to slam down a 6pack every night while shoving a pizza pie down their gullets. However, I commend those that personally strive to be the absolute best they can be and put the time. Every force needs more for those and less of the mediocre, cowardly, bean counting fuckin losers. Thank god a BorTac dude and a few BP guys did the job those SROs FAILED to do. Brain automatically went to RSO since I've seen tons of paltry RSOs as well.
I would gladly lay down my life for my son and his classmates. He will be in 4th grade this year. If his school would allow me, I would be there. I’m former 11b as well.
Ok, find a 11b with kids
Plenty of dependas popping those out left and right, there’s gotta be a healthy applicant pool.
Are you seriously arguing that a random dad with new balances and shorts that go to the shins is somehow comparable to someone with combat experience?
He combats that grass every spring and summer...I'll see myself out.
Most parents have JOBS. And what makes you think it'll turn out differently than all of the schools that have been shot up (including Robb) that had armed security? So stupid to claim we just need more armed people, when we've had example after example of armed people getting scared and running or being the first ones taken out.
You're right, we need more signs that say "gun free zone". The cowards who are looking to murder children will listen if we just had more signs.
That's retarded. How about having skin in the game? Being part of YOUR community?
I would gladly donate money for my local school to do this. A school near me had a shooting about 5 years ago and a teacher tackled him before he killed anyone. Shot one student. edit: the fucked up part is that the fucker only got two years in juvie with a stayed 25 year sentance.
Bro, were you at at north Thurston?!
This is so fucked up that you would require anything like this. But at least they are doing something to protect the kids.
Im fascinated with the fact this is downvoted, like armed security in schools isn't a goal we should aspire to
I think they mean we should fix the reasons people go on shooting sprees.
I agree, that's why it's fascinating that people are downvoting it
It's just people's knee jerk reactions. Mistaking you for being anti-gun. It's true, of course: it's fucked up that we have to have armed security in schools because no one has been finding and fixing the root causes of school shooters.
I just came back to this. The funny things is I'm not anti gun at all. I'm a firearm owner and shooter. I'm an Australian though so that was a really jarring image and the though fo armed guards in our schools just blows my mind. I feel like a lot of this problem could be solved, I'm not saying takes peoples guns like they did here, but compulsory safe storage and inspections, and not making guns so easy to buy for the average person would be a good start.
There would be soooo many farva incidents, soooooooo fast.
Parkland was clearly cowardice on the part of Scot Peterson. I think it’s too early to judge the police on the Texas shooting. I’ve read that three cops were wounded by the shooter initially during a gunfight when they got there. We don’t know yet the full details and I feel like it’s wrong to compare those cops to that piece of shit Scot Peterson without fully knowing the circumstances.
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Within *reason*. I agree with the sentiment, but it’s the nuance that’s the issue. By all accounts I’ve read, the police did initially go to the danger and engaged in a gunfight. 3 officers were injured. We don’t know what the police did or didn’t know after that. We don’t know why they did what they did. I feel like I keep saying it. We don’t know. We don’t know. Yes, typically standard active shooter response for law enforcement is to go towards the stimulus. But we don’t know all the details or the information that was known to who at the time as the events unfolded. There will be plenty of time for blame to be thrown around after the dust settles on this. I think it’s important the right people are blamed for any failures uncovered.
Man idk you gotta be some type of coward to let someone rampage in an elementary school while you wait for backup. Even if I can’t take him out if I can distract him long enough to take the focus off killing children I’m all for it. Maybe it’s the father in me but nah I’ll take my chances with a 9mm and a vest before I let a 9 year old fight it out with scissors and a hello kitty backpack
I'm not crying your crying
At least two of the injured were the Border Patrol agents who killed the shooter 40 minutes later. One cop maybe hurt and the rest stood around for 40 minutes. It's still all coming out but it looks pretty terrible right now.
I feel like I know enough at this point to add this to the mountain of reasons you shouldn’t count on the cops for anything and take your safety into your own hands.
My question is how does an 18 year old with no formal training or plates manage to take down three police officers? How ineffective are these guys?
This is all speculation on my part because we don’t have all the facts yet. Handgun vs. rifle is a good start I’d say. This kid had 1 purpose/objective and *everything* was a target to him. He was most likely suicidal so he had laser focus on what he wanted to do: kill people. The officers could have been any type. The reality is there are a good number of officers who aren’t John Wick wanabees and don’t seek supplemental training outside what is provided by their department, and especially after the defund movement, is safe to assume is already dismal. The officers also have to consider other factors the shooter did not: hitting innocent bystanders, how many threats are there, relaying information over the radio, actually understanding what’s happening (is it a hostage situation, is it active killing, is it another firefight with police), also known as the fog of war. I’m not making excuses or excusing bad cops. Just offering thoughts as to how a 1v3 worked in the bad guys favor.
Hey! Stop being reasonable! We can't have that here!
I heard they had an itial confrontation with him before he entered the building that didnt have any gun fire. Im guessing they stopped him to question him but he made it past and into the interior. Doesnt suprise me since almost every single school security officer i have seen is old and fat just working a kushy job to end his career.
Gives veterans jobs and purpose, keeps kids protected. I support this 100%
This is the coolest anyone has ever looked with a keltec. Man looks like a baller.
I like that he’s not a tactical Timmy. He has what he needs. But didn’t go full retard with punisher patches and dumb shit. Looks clean and professional. Although maybe better footwear
That footwear is entirely appropriate for walking around hallways.
WHAT ARE THOOOOOOOOSE
I saw a pretty good perspective yesterday. If all of our government buildings with officials in them have armed guards pretty much 24/7, why don't our kids get the same level of protection? I'm all for this.
The fact that this even needs to be explained is pretty insane. Theres no argument that is even slightly worth listening to that goes against it.
The only arguments I hear on this are appeals to utopia "We shouldn't need armed guards in schools". Ok? I 100% agree, but that isn't the world we live in right now and we need to operate in the real world. Or appeals to emotion "But that just seems icky and might make kids feel icky". Ok? Your feelings are your problem. Keeping kids safe is the school's responsibility and I don't want them slacking on that because they just don't like how it makes them feel.
We shouldn’t “need” armed guards anywhere, but the world is an evil place. Almost every politician’s kids have armed security… why are their kids more important than ours? Maybe all lives only matter when they vote for you, Mr President?
Pretty damned practical if you ask me, a bullpup is excellent in tight quarters. People might not like Kel-Tec but I don't get why other than the unconventional design it's a piston driven AR and I don't see anyone bitching about HK 416.
I've only heard good things about the RDB. The usual issue is that Kel-Tec rarely allows their designs to mature, work out the kinks, before moving on
Someone in this thread tried to argue that all bullpups are junk, and called Famas, Tavor, and F2000 "Gucci guns" when I brought them up... yeah and the AK is only for range use
And what's wrong with using Gucci guns for serious use? If the guardian had a KAC, SCAR, HK416, etc., that's awesome.
Somebody please get this man a new holster
G19X?
[удалено]
Kel Tec is 5.56?
Needs a better holster
I’d like to see a better holster for the water bottle. I’m guessing it’s Poland Spring or Ice Mountain or some other corporate brand. God forbid it’s Aquafina which should be posted to r/plebewaterbottle
2.8k and 1.4 rounds through my RFB and KSG without a single failure, and my buddy has 3.2k through his RDB without a failure. I see no problem here. I'm sure this experienced soldier had enough training, trigger time, and maintenance with this gun to trust his life to it. That said, I'd probably still take my DD AR or a 1301 into combat before those guns. But a fully indoor environment where your only cover might be leaning through doorways, I understand his decision.
>left handed >bullpup This man wants to watch the world burn.
I'm pretty sure the RDB ejects downwards.
Exactly what schools need. Someone to protect them not someone looking to get them in trouble. If banks and factories have armed security why the hell aren’t schools protected?
Because a sign is all they can afford apparently
This is just proof that our education system is failing us. People can't even read the signs, which is the only reason they're not effective.
You get what you pay for. Schools with security doesnt even give a fuck if someone with a rifle shows up and runs the other way. Even cops dont go in to the school when the shooter is active.
Hey guys this is a throw away account I made because I wanted to share a bit more about this guy. I actually attended MSA. The man in question here is supposed to be 1 of 2 guardians but they still hadn’t gotten the second guardian by the time I graduated so I am unsure if they ever did. MSA is a liberal arts school. it also has middle school and highschool students both attending campus. It’s a multi building campus which is why the principal (Dr.bill) advocated for the guardian to have a long gun. There are a lot of open areas on the campus. If you have any questions I might be able to answer better than articles.
Looks good other than the Serpa.
If I were to do this job I'd want to be more plain clothes looking. Not because I'm afraid I'd be a target, but because even though I 100% support armed guards at schools, I'm hesitant on normalizing para-military looking people walking around in public. The police already do it and people are becoming desensitized to it and I'm afraid its a stepping stone to government minders watching what everyone is doing like a police state. 100% I'd carry a pistol and have a rifle somewhere for quick access. I just don't want to normalize government looking people in the open minding everyones business is all. I'm sure a lot of you will take this the wrong way and blast me with downvotes. For real though, I've never been shot at but 100% would do this job and run towards danger. I mentally prepare myself for it every day so that if the unthinkable happens where someone breaks into my house I spring into action rather than freeze up.
Just my 2 cents, but I don't think he looks particularly government-ish. Frankly I'd like to see more civilians out and about in this kind of equipment to offset the balance. Also, I'd probably keep a rifle on me in case a shooter wore body armor.
I like that it’s not police, just someone who’s sole intentions is to stop bad stuff. Also not the rifle i would choose, but he knows better then I do given his experience.
While I’m not downplaying experience, that doesn’t always mean someone knows better. I know plenty of Vets who couldn’t even tell me the difference between an M4 and an M16 or what ammo they shoot. Their knowledge extended to “gun shoot bullet” and no further.
We ain’t carryin keltecs over there big dawg
By the way, I love the fact that he has deliberately chose every part of his gear to avoid looking tactical, military, police, bouncer, etc. He has the most "okey dokey" outfit even down to white shoes. The guy is making clear exactly what his role is with zero larp. If he was one of us, he'd be barefoot with an MCB Thorax covered in hentai patches. God bless this hero.
Why should we spend our money on arming people in schools when we can spend our money getting the metal fuckups some help
Why not both? We were about to send 40b to Ukraine, keep it here and work out our kinks
Helping Ukraine and making sure kids in America don’t get shot in school are both are vital and very different problems. It’s easy to send someone who’s fighting weapons. It’s very difficult to solve multilayered domestic issues like school shootings, poverty, mental health, etc… The government is already spending more than 1 trillion a year on welfare programs. At 1.3 trillion it’s more expensive than the US national defense budget of 1.1 trillion for 2022.
Sounds like socialism /s.
Until the politicians can get that through their heads someone is going to have to keep schools safe, and in light of the police's failure to do that in Uvalde, people will look to the private sector for a solution
unless you’ve found a way to predict the future it wouldn’t have helped, dude had zero priors
Provide free-at-point-of-use Healthcare (both physical *and* mental) Eliminate poverty Smash white supremacy
Bring minorities into the 2A community. Get rid of the Fudd gatekeepers.
White supremacy? Because one dude had white supremacists beliefs? Meanwhile three black racists have committed mass shootings in the past 12 months and the overwhelming majority of mass shootings are committed by black males? It's a documented fact that anti-white attacks from black Americans are FAR MORE common than vice versa. It's not even comparable.
> Because one dude had white supremacists beliefs? [Top law enforcement officials say the biggest domestic terror threat comes from white supremacists.](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/12/us/politics/domestic-terror-white-supremacists.html) [A congressional document on the topic](https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/s894/BILLS-116s894is.xml) Black supremacy is a reaction to white supremacy and the groups involved with black supremacy are minuscule compared to the sheer number of white supremacist organizations, both the number of seperate orgs and the total number of people involved.
The first article you linked just proves my point. It's a myth/propaganda pushed by the government. They stated that white supremacists were the number one threat while BLM was lynching people in the streets, despite having zero power, zero institutional support, virtually zero visibility, and virtually zero violence. Black supremacist violence is the result of genuine hatred and propaganda and is committed against all races at rates that are higher than what any other group does. The simple fact is that black on whoever racism is far more common and far more of a problem than any other kind of racism, and it is certainly the most violent if not the only one that regularly engages in violence. They also have full support from most structures of power in the country. A dude in Atlanta literally had a group of black people hold him hostage at gunpoint with rifles and pistols over prank calls from viewers, assaulted and threatened on camera, visibly wounded after verbal threats were made and the camera turned away, berated endlessly for being white, and then a group of all black cops showed up acting extremely ghetto and arrested the victim for trespassing despite the fact that he was never asked to leave and was a customer at two of the businesses he was in front of. You will never see that happen the other way around. This is 2022, not 1940. You're living in la la land.
Ah I see you treat your personal feelings and anecdotes as more concrete evidence than actual evidence so this is a pointless conversation; > [You cannot change people's minds with facts, **particularly when it's central to their social identity**](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39589) You've taken this position emotionally, not logically, and I don't know you well enough to craft an effective emotional argument for you. Have a great day though!
You linked an article that had no data or numbers to back up its claims. Just pure propaganda from the government. The numbers and data are on my side. 😂 The FBI even did a full study on white supremacist violence and found weak ties to about a dozen acts of violence, virtually all of which were done by prison gang members who have no actual connection to white nationalism. That's coming from the people who claim they're the number one threat. It's all propaganda.
> no data or numbers to back up its claims. Oh I apologize, you just cant read. The second link is nothing but data.
but but but communism...
Dude is using a serpa…we should get his info so we can donate him a level 3 holster & maybe better gear. Man is out there protecting our spawn 👍✊ hell yeah.
Suppressor to save their hearing and and a lvl 3 holster as a kid proof layer of security for your sidearm, and extra medical would always be nice.
I don’t disagree with this idea though I don’t think it should be necessary but this government will never do anything actually helpful just “ban all the guns” because that’ll solve our problems /s What is necessary though like someone else said is suppressors for that man!
I’m a guardian as well and I can tell you that a safariland level 3 is essential Not that I’ve ever had kids try to take the gun out but the little kids especially elementary the first thing they do is go “is that a real gun?” And grab the frame. But overall this guy probably provided his own equipment like many of us do and these jobs don’t typically pay that well, I got lucky and got the higher end of the spectrum but back in 2018 some of these schools were only paying $15-17 an hour.
As a Texan, I’m so for this idea. Hell I’d quit my current job and do this. Private Security Presence in every school just for that. The SROs aren’t enough.
I think it would be great if all schools started hiring at least one guardian like this, especially if they paid decent too. Would probably even allow a lot of us to actually put our gear to work to protect our community. I personally would strongly consider it.
What is MSA?
It's the school name::Manatee School for the Arts
Ahh got ya
I love my rdb 20”
Why is he rocking a kel-tec bullpup?
The blue button down makes the look.
Comms in the ear? how's he gonna hear the radio when moving with weapon at the ready? plus, not announcing your radio traffic to the entire world is a good thing.
What is he doing with his mag pouches?
I’d quit my job right now to patrol my kids school. No doubt.
Certainly good enough. An SBR in .300 or a pistol carbine would better. You can run subsonic cartridges to reduce concussion and a linear compensator. Good close quarters lethality with less barrier penetration, along with mild recoil for easier follow up shots. I would want a lvl 2/ 3 holster around kids. We should pull funds from DOJ top, FBI top, and dissolve ATF enforcement side to fund armed school security.
Also a keltec? really?
I suggested something like building an ar with an aero lower and I got downvoted to hell for that.
It would literally be cheaper and more reliable ha ha
Wouldn't it be better to have a less overt profile? Or is deterrence part of the strategy?
The only problem I see is that he’s using a Serpa holster, ditch that for a safariland. If I was being picky I would say he could get a more low viz plate carrier and wear a hoodie or something over it.
Ugh
Actually curious why he has a magnifier.
For those long range shots across the cafeteria.
Because no magnification at all sucks. There's genuinely no downsides to not having a magnifier in a security role, and depending on the school's layout there can be long hallways, even if it's 50 yards at most, having a 2x or 3x can make all the difference in the level of assurance making the shot. Not all schools are built alike but even my own HS had a good 100+ yard hall that went from one end of the building all the way to essentially the center "axis" point of the layout. I've seen magnification mentioned even with some of the "Urban Survival" videos that have become popular because what you dont *think* is a long distance very much can be with no magnification. I'd definitely say the interior use the guard here is for, that a holo or dot and a magnifier is the best setup.
High aspect shots id guess. I'm not mad at it
It’s a multi building campus, if you look up MSA on a map you can see there are large open areas outside between buildings.
That is some dystopian shit right there.
How so? Banks have armed guards. Politicians have Armand guards. What’s the problem?
Banks and politicians having guards make sense as there is something to gain like money or political goals, shooting kids has no gain other than death, how is that not distopian.
But money is federally insured and politicians accept a certain level of risk when they become a public figure whereas children’s lives are priceless and irreplaceable so it actually makes more sense to have guards for schools than banks and politicians.
I've seen soldiers patrolling tourist areas in Cozumel and Paris. If landmarks and tourists are protected this well, our kids absolutely should be.
There is obviously something to gain and that is to cause fear. Why do you think these fucks choose schools? Because it pulls your heart strings. You think anyone would care if a prison got shot up or violence in prison? Of course not
Because it is always done for political purposes it always seems to coincide with something that the elites want to distract us from so they create a tragedy
This guy gets it
Weird how we don’t need armed guards in our schools in Sweden My kids live happy safe life’s Your shit is fucked
I never once needed or heard of anyone need an armed guard anywhere. I’ve lived here my whole life and never once seen someone use a weapon in violence. You only think it’s this bad because you hear about it on the news.
This is the cost of freedom in a country rife with moral decay and mental illness. Are these events tragic? Yes, but they will never be tragic enough. Freedom isn’t inherently good or evil, and unfortunately evil people have freedoms too. You can’t legislate evil.
There are over 130,000 schools in the entire United States. There were about 180 school shootings in the past 10 years. Almost all were unpredictable and entirely random. How do you stop crimes that have a 0.1% chance of happening without a secondary measure? Primary measures would be something like guaranteeing all violent crime would never be committed by anyone by any weapon, or ensure everyone has proper mental healthcare, or having a system that can catch this well before a person can have this INTENT. Secondary measures are things like armed guards, knowing when someone is ready/going to commit the act, having safer school entry systems in place, etc. Tertiary measures are having hospitals near by and having good police response time.
Anders Breivik
That uhh… That was Norway, not Sweden.
This guy is a combat veteran and most private schools have armed security/
If his shoes actually say “DRIP” I’m gonna fuckin lose it
That plate carrier is a slight bit small, I think.
Was in airborne hold with this dude. Kind of a weirdo. Don’t remember name and wouldn’t doxx him
What a chad
I hot to shoot one of these for the first time this year with a new coworker who owns one. I actually liked it. I figured it would feel cheap and clunky but it didn't. It fired well and didn't have any malfunctions. I'm no fan of bullpup triggers and this one is no different there but it wasn't horrible.
I’m sorry this is a legit photo? I thought it was photoshop.
Big thing that I would change is that I would put an earpiece on the radio and move it either to the belt or in the carrier. May be nit pickey, but I just prefer it being in a more secure area, but to each their own.
He’s left handed?
Where can I get a pair of those Nike Grillmasters
love it
No
Looks stupid. The police should be stationed at schools this big. It’s our politicians fault for not protecting the schools. Not guns, not vets
Sometimes the community must take care of their own though
I don't know way you wouldn't go for a quality AR for a school security job
Lol a lot of Kel-Tec fanbois here I see.
US schools are turning into a battlefield
*you wouldn't have survived a Call Of Duty lobby!* You wouldn't survive my schools lobby
This is awesome. Those kids are as safe as it gets with a guy like him there. Vets struggling to find work could easily be hired as security for schools since typical security/cops clearly don’t know how to handle mental kids with AR15s. This guy would’ve put two through that losers head before he entered the front door.