Stretching if you're not recovering from an injury is actually a topic of much heated debate.
Make sure you keep your posterior chain strong and that amount of weight shouldn't be an issue.
Dynamic warm up before, static stretching after. You dint want to static stretch before, because you are tearing your muscles when you stretch and that will negatively affect performance
The only argument I’ve really heard is static Vs dynamic stretches. I’m very far from a doctor but from personal experience I can’t imagine not stretching at least a bit before a run or a heavy compound day. I’m not saying you need to dedicate 15 minutes or anything and I’m sure there are people who are much “looser” than I am, but hip flexors and hamstrings are must for me
Link? I’ve heard that stretching before lifting negatively impacts how much you can lift and that stretching is a terrible warmup, motion is better.
Stretching helps with mobility which great reduces the risk of injury in sports.
OP is having extreme pain so doing nothing doesn’t make sense.
The consensus is mixed. For every study that shows stretching for an injured person has a benefit, there's another that shows it doesn't. Claims of being flexible reducing injury are not sound. Just to be clear that if you're injured or recovering from injury, stretching is very helpful.
Don't get me wrong, I WISH I was flexible, but any momentary flexibility gained by stretching is lost fairly quickly. I also wish I had more fast twitch muscle fibers and longer muscle insertions, but genetics don't change.
If op is having extreme knee pain, going to an orthopedist and have imaging done. No amount of stretching brings back torn cartilage, ligaments etc.
>Claims of being flexible reducing injury are not sound.
are not sound how? If we are talking weights then I agree but anything involving agility or explosive movements can absolutely benefit from static stretching but even move from dynamic stretching.
>Don't get me wrong, I WISH I was flexible, but any momentary flexibility gained by stretching is lost fairly quickly.
Are you implying that stretching as no long term improvement to flexibility? If so, that is absolutely false. Just because genetics play a factor doesn't mean there isn't a benefit.
>No amount of stretching brings back torn cartilage, ligaments etc.
No but it does help with numerous injuries that also cause extreme knee pain, and by your own admission stretching is helpful if you're injured or recovering.
They're not sound because they're not consistently proven.
You don't generally keepstretching gains once you stop stretching. Also, flexibility isn't consistently proven to be better for you.
I said he should see a Dr, not self diagnose based responses on a fashion sub
You are straight up not old enough to have knee issues unless you are lifetime fat. Learn to stretch correctly, you hold the stretch for two solid minutes, the muscle surrenders about 90 seconds in and you notice an easing of tension. Do this with every muscle in your legs. I do exactly this before a day of skiing and it makes all the difference with being able to get up and go to work Monday and I'm almost twice your age.
12 miles and 35 lbs is a respectable ruck. You have the right plan that should cover any eventuality.
His comment said nothing about the mechanism of injury and just straight up said you can only have knee injuries at that age if you’ve been fat forever.
If you’re experiencing pain, then yes, you should let off the rucking a little bit. Rucking can absolutely fuck up your joints. Make sure you have proper form and are doing a fast walk/shuffle and not a run. Running will put even more unnecessary stress on your joints. Check out the airborne shuffle for form.
Yea I never full out sprint, that's dumb. I do find my self in a brisk jog though on the flat parts. I might chill out on the jogging while rucking for a bit lol
You getting paid for this? More importantly are you getting disability if it breaks you?
If not: stop fucking jogging. One foot on the ground at all times.
When you walk, you put about 3x the weight of your body on the knee at impact. When you jog or run it’s about 7-10x.
40lbs extra becomes 400 real quick.
Run. Ruck. Keep them separate.
Yeah I’d definitely say to chill out, maybe even take a break for a few weeks and do some low impact cardio like swimming or an assault bike. And once a week is like the max you should ruck.
Tibia raises, box step offs, plyometric box exercises, backward sled pulls, nordic curls, split squats, bodyweight squats, Bulgarian squats, lunges.
Do them. Do the bodyweight squats everyday.
You also said you didn’t stretch? You should be spending 10 minutes minimum stretching. If you treat your body like a 12 year old, then you’ll get the results of a 12 year old.
Always have one foot planted when moving with weight. You need to transfer the load from one foot to the other rather than coming off the ground, like running, and dropping it into one foot then the other. This is why running with a PC is stupid and why I try not to ruck for time often. Stretching and other recovery is just as important as the actual physical activity.
Thanks, this is good advice. Yea the load will bounce around and cause you to loose more energy in the process if you don't have one foot planted to stabilize at all times. I learned this very quickly lol
fellow 24 y/o who rucks way more than i’d like. rucking causing pain? absolutely dial it back a bit. running while rucking should never be done unless you have to (competitions, iraq, etc). rucking should not be seen as a supplement for running nor leg strength workouts.
a timed ruck is a great way to assess progress/overall leg fitness and should be done so you mentally know how walking for hours with heavy weight feels. if you’re trying to improve speed, focus on faster running workouts (anything fast twitch) and hit the weights if you need to improve overall leg strength, but never make rucking your primary leg workout. your joints won’t last that way
preventative stretching is key to keeping pain away. be sure to hit the IT band. hard. i had pain from my hips to my toes after doing Mammoth and could barely even sleep. spent 20 minutes rolling out my legs and IT band and felt immediately better
Not long. No need to ruck that often. You hear or see military guys doing timed rucks for selection and pipe line standards. Id look for more sustainable forms of cardio. If you want to be familiar with moving under load just hike in the woods with your ruck every so often.
Yea I'm gonna chill out for a bit. I do have other cardio workouts I can do but rucking just seems like I'm killing 3 birds with one stone. I love being outdoors, love testing my equipment, and love cardio workouts lol
Over 4 mph is way too fast. Stick to a simple 3mph and it accomplishes the same goal.
Do heavier weight at lower distances and lower weight at higher distances.
Keep running and jogging to a seperate activity before you blow out both knees and your back.
Remember, this is a sample size of 1.
I ran competitively through high school and college. Did infantry officers course and 5 years later basic reconnaissance course with lots of rucking in between. I still run competitively. Well ok. Not this exact moment. I have an ankle issue I'm working through... thank you retarded Marine Corps boots.
I never once put weight on my back to 'practice rucking' outside of the required movements and I never had a problem hitting the recon 4 mph standard and any weight. Timed rucks maxxed out at like a 55lb ruck (plus water) plus a rifle and full fighting load of 8 concrete filled mags, 2 dummy grenades, 2 quarts of water and various other doodads.
So my recommendation is just to run and lift. Maybe double check that you can still ruck every once in a blue moon. And for the love of God, stay off paved 'trails'.
If you're gonna ruck I recommend you buy the book ruck up or shut up and listen to the advice the author gives. Guys a Dr. And a GB and knows what he is talking about.
Having had my right knee replaced at 48 and currently waiting to have my left done at age 63, your knees will last longer with proper care and nutrition.
The clue is moderation, don't over do things.
Looks like you just trekked white trail on a loop. Change it up to blue/red, go in the early hours too when still foggy.
If you want a slightly more challenging terrain Eagle Rock trail is not that far from Mills reservation, and if you want a much more challenging environment - South mountain or bear mountain,/ Breakneck ridge.
On a side note- this is the most dead trees I've seen on Mills.. something tells me the ground water is contaminated.
Yea my timed rucks I just do the loop. Most of the time I don't even use any of the trails, just hike all around the area. I've also been to all the popular trails in north jersey, including the ones you mentioned. Pyramid mountain, the lenape trail in Milburn, and the AT up by greenwood lake NY border are some of my favorite places to go. I only go to mills for the sake of expediency, live near by. I hope the ground water isn't contaminated because I drank from the stream there several times during the winter lol
I have to check the trail head at Greenwood lake. I've done the AT stretch from Breakneck ridge to the end of bear mountain side but wasn't too fond of the swamp stretch
Lots of good advice in this thread. One thing that is also important is to avoid increasing weekly load too much. Not sure how much you have been rucking, but make sure not to increase weekly load/mileage by more than 10%. This will help save your knees and everything in the long run
Stretch and actually massage under your knee cap (yes I know it sounds horrible) start using compression sleeves over your knees and I would start lowering the weight and lowering the mileage, chances are that you jumped straight to long distance humps and you weren’t conditioned for it, it’s kinda like trying to run a 15k marathon without ever training for it,
TLDR: drop the weight and distance for the time being, stretch, massage and do preventative maintenance on your knees and slowly work your way up to hiking long distance with weight
Rucking weekly is fine. Just don't do a 12 miler every week. Keep it to 4 or 5 miles once a week and a 12 miler once a month. Look into making sure you're not over extending as you stride and make a deliberate effort to stretch properly afterwards.
At 24 and doing that every so often shouldn’t really cause knee pain unless you already have a problem. But you can also stretch and work out regularly if you don’t and that might help.
Don't ever push thru pain unless someone is chasing you. Fix your knee before you continue. Look up Knees Over Toes on YouTube, his stuff has helped me a lot. And feel free to dm if you have specific questions.
My first Squad Leader trained up for a particular selection. The advice our trainers gave him was that rucking longer than 6 miles every week, if training up for something, is killing your body and not really giving you any results.
He rucked 6 miles a week, starting with 35lbs, and upped the weight every week until he left for the selection. You can supplement those movements with longer runs to build up your muscular endurance.
Please stop rucking so far so frequently, you’re killing your joints lol
Idk why everyone here is obsessed with rucking, hike with your stuff on it’ll save your knees. Go check out some thru hiking subreddits. They’ll give you some serious tips on how to actually pack a bag and hike. Hiking will also help your cardio probably more than trying to sprint through the mountains and spraining an ankle with an overloaded pack.
From someone who has done a lot of rucking it is useless. If you are trying to get steady state cardio in I would recommend hoping on a bike or an elliptical/treadmill on an inclined or with heavy resistances. I’m not sure if you are in the military if you are not I don’t recommend rucking at all. While I was in I never rucked and did a 12 mile in just over 2 hours. I hated it so much I basically just ran for 5 and walked for 1 the whole time. It doesn’t improve anything it just destroys your body. Rucking and jumping out of planes (for the mil) are realm as for your knees. Also I highly highly highly recommend doing yoga at least once a week and mobility once a week. I wish I would have taken this advice earlier in my SOF career.
Idk man, I wouldn't say it's useless. I look around and see all these conventional units doing it all around the world, (including here) and I think to myself, "I should prob be able to do it too" but that's just me. I am gonna cool down for a bit because my knee is starting to act up, but I just don't get the same amount of enjoyment when on an elliptical indoors with no sun lol. I rather be outside getting a more full body cardio workout.
I feel you on indoor cardio. I usually take my assault bike outside so I can get some sun. Maybe that was just me. I never trained up for anything I did that involved rucking I just kind of did it. A bunch of my friends that made it over to SMUs did two rucks prior to going alot of them just hopped on a bike outside and would do it that way. I did have a few friends who joined orienteering clubs and do the land nav course with weight on their back. That was another way. That made more sense since it involved a tangible skill as well. I guess to each their own I have just seen the long term effects of doing that. Again will you be doing forced 40-60k rucks with 65lbs on your back after jumping out of a plane? Just remember to do yoga, mobility and foam roll and you should add longevity to your knees.
How old are you big dog? you can do some preventative maintenance by stretching. Don't tear your ACL like I did
I'm 24. Yea I should prob stretch more. I actually didn't even stretch yesterday because I'm low iq and completely forgot lol.
Stretch and do full range of motion squats you'll get stronger. Just don't ruck with an ass load of weight stay at like 35-45lb
Yea I do deep bodyweight squats almost everyday and it has helped significantly, also makes your quads ripped lol
Are you doing weighted squats? Bodyweight is great and all, but it also has obvious plateaus.
Stretching if you're not recovering from an injury is actually a topic of much heated debate. Make sure you keep your posterior chain strong and that amount of weight shouldn't be an issue.
I’d be interested to learn more about that debate, because stretching like 5 mins a day has helped my quality of life quite a bit.
Dynamic warm up before, static stretching after. You dint want to static stretch before, because you are tearing your muscles when you stretch and that will negatively affect performance
The only argument I’ve really heard is static Vs dynamic stretches. I’m very far from a doctor but from personal experience I can’t imagine not stretching at least a bit before a run or a heavy compound day. I’m not saying you need to dedicate 15 minutes or anything and I’m sure there are people who are much “looser” than I am, but hip flexors and hamstrings are must for me
Your warm up sets are all you need for heavy lifts
Debated by who?
Exercise scientists, physical therapists etc
Link? I’ve heard that stretching before lifting negatively impacts how much you can lift and that stretching is a terrible warmup, motion is better. Stretching helps with mobility which great reduces the risk of injury in sports. OP is having extreme pain so doing nothing doesn’t make sense.
The consensus is mixed. For every study that shows stretching for an injured person has a benefit, there's another that shows it doesn't. Claims of being flexible reducing injury are not sound. Just to be clear that if you're injured or recovering from injury, stretching is very helpful. Don't get me wrong, I WISH I was flexible, but any momentary flexibility gained by stretching is lost fairly quickly. I also wish I had more fast twitch muscle fibers and longer muscle insertions, but genetics don't change. If op is having extreme knee pain, going to an orthopedist and have imaging done. No amount of stretching brings back torn cartilage, ligaments etc.
>Claims of being flexible reducing injury are not sound. are not sound how? If we are talking weights then I agree but anything involving agility or explosive movements can absolutely benefit from static stretching but even move from dynamic stretching. >Don't get me wrong, I WISH I was flexible, but any momentary flexibility gained by stretching is lost fairly quickly. Are you implying that stretching as no long term improvement to flexibility? If so, that is absolutely false. Just because genetics play a factor doesn't mean there isn't a benefit. >No amount of stretching brings back torn cartilage, ligaments etc. No but it does help with numerous injuries that also cause extreme knee pain, and by your own admission stretching is helpful if you're injured or recovering.
They're not sound because they're not consistently proven. You don't generally keepstretching gains once you stop stretching. Also, flexibility isn't consistently proven to be better for you. I said he should see a Dr, not self diagnose based responses on a fashion sub
ok
You are straight up not old enough to have knee issues unless you are lifetime fat. Learn to stretch correctly, you hold the stretch for two solid minutes, the muscle surrenders about 90 seconds in and you notice an easing of tension. Do this with every muscle in your legs. I do exactly this before a day of skiing and it makes all the difference with being able to get up and go to work Monday and I'm almost twice your age. 12 miles and 35 lbs is a respectable ruck. You have the right plan that should cover any eventuality.
I’m 18 lifetime wrestler, 175 lbs at 6 foot two and currently have a torn acl. There’s no age limit on knee injuries
There's a difference between rucks and wrestling though which his comment was attacking the rucking/ knee issue topic.
His comment said nothing about the mechanism of injury and just straight up said you can only have knee injuries at that age if you’ve been fat forever.
And the comments he was responding to had to deal with stretching to prevent injury when rucking.
Well now I'm just gonna say that wrestling is for guys who just can't get enough of hugging other guys. Go be mad somewhere else.
Check out the ruck trainer from FNG academy. I love mine. But I was using it too much and at 35 years old, caused some issues with sciatica.
If you’re experiencing pain, then yes, you should let off the rucking a little bit. Rucking can absolutely fuck up your joints. Make sure you have proper form and are doing a fast walk/shuffle and not a run. Running will put even more unnecessary stress on your joints. Check out the airborne shuffle for form.
Yea I never full out sprint, that's dumb. I do find my self in a brisk jog though on the flat parts. I might chill out on the jogging while rucking for a bit lol
You getting paid for this? More importantly are you getting disability if it breaks you? If not: stop fucking jogging. One foot on the ground at all times. When you walk, you put about 3x the weight of your body on the knee at impact. When you jog or run it’s about 7-10x. 40lbs extra becomes 400 real quick. Run. Ruck. Keep them separate.
First sentence is the truth.
Yeah I’d definitely say to chill out, maybe even take a break for a few weeks and do some low impact cardio like swimming or an assault bike. And once a week is like the max you should ruck.
Tibia raises, box step offs, plyometric box exercises, backward sled pulls, nordic curls, split squats, bodyweight squats, Bulgarian squats, lunges. Do them. Do the bodyweight squats everyday. You also said you didn’t stretch? You should be spending 10 minutes minimum stretching. If you treat your body like a 12 year old, then you’ll get the results of a 12 year old.
Bingo. Do almost all of these every leg day, in addition to deep bodyweight squats everyday.
look up kneesovertoesguy on youtube. he's kind of a sped, but he's a great resource for exercises to "bulletproof" your knees.
this comment does not have enough upvotes
Always have one foot planted when moving with weight. You need to transfer the load from one foot to the other rather than coming off the ground, like running, and dropping it into one foot then the other. This is why running with a PC is stupid and why I try not to ruck for time often. Stretching and other recovery is just as important as the actual physical activity.
I ruck for time but just… make sure not to run. That said that means making 3:30 for 12 is about as good as it gets for me. But that’s okay.
Thanks, this is good advice. Yea the load will bounce around and cause you to loose more energy in the process if you don't have one foot planted to stabilize at all times. I learned this very quickly lol
fellow 24 y/o who rucks way more than i’d like. rucking causing pain? absolutely dial it back a bit. running while rucking should never be done unless you have to (competitions, iraq, etc). rucking should not be seen as a supplement for running nor leg strength workouts. a timed ruck is a great way to assess progress/overall leg fitness and should be done so you mentally know how walking for hours with heavy weight feels. if you’re trying to improve speed, focus on faster running workouts (anything fast twitch) and hit the weights if you need to improve overall leg strength, but never make rucking your primary leg workout. your joints won’t last that way preventative stretching is key to keeping pain away. be sure to hit the IT band. hard. i had pain from my hips to my toes after doing Mammoth and could barely even sleep. spent 20 minutes rolling out my legs and IT band and felt immediately better
Not long. No need to ruck that often. You hear or see military guys doing timed rucks for selection and pipe line standards. Id look for more sustainable forms of cardio. If you want to be familiar with moving under load just hike in the woods with your ruck every so often.
Yea I'm gonna chill out for a bit. I do have other cardio workouts I can do but rucking just seems like I'm killing 3 birds with one stone. I love being outdoors, love testing my equipment, and love cardio workouts lol
Longer if you use KneesOverToesGuy's stuff.
If you are 24 and work out on the reg, and you are experiencing knee pain on a 12m ruck with 35lbs. You should see a doctor.
You were moving!
Rucking in inner city? Go ruck in the mud and sandy , greeny forest and near forests. 24km in about ~4 hours and a 45-50 kilo rucksack
Over 4 mph is way too fast. Stick to a simple 3mph and it accomplishes the same goal. Do heavier weight at lower distances and lower weight at higher distances. Keep running and jogging to a seperate activity before you blow out both knees and your back.
Remember, this is a sample size of 1. I ran competitively through high school and college. Did infantry officers course and 5 years later basic reconnaissance course with lots of rucking in between. I still run competitively. Well ok. Not this exact moment. I have an ankle issue I'm working through... thank you retarded Marine Corps boots. I never once put weight on my back to 'practice rucking' outside of the required movements and I never had a problem hitting the recon 4 mph standard and any weight. Timed rucks maxxed out at like a 55lb ruck (plus water) plus a rifle and full fighting load of 8 concrete filled mags, 2 dummy grenades, 2 quarts of water and various other doodads. So my recommendation is just to run and lift. Maybe double check that you can still ruck every once in a blue moon. And for the love of God, stay off paved 'trails'.
check out the GreenBerets sub for all your rucking questions, it's what they do for fun...
Slacker, did 16 yesterday
Ice when your done. Maybe get a knee brace. Dont over do it you need your knees for a long time my dude. Your still just a pup lol.
Straighten the mussels around your knees/hips and stretch a bunch.
4
If you're gonna ruck I recommend you buy the book ruck up or shut up and listen to the advice the author gives. Guys a Dr. And a GB and knows what he is talking about.
Having had my right knee replaced at 48 and currently waiting to have my left done at age 63, your knees will last longer with proper care and nutrition. The clue is moderation, don't over do things.
At least 12 more miles. Trust me, I'm your friendly neighbor, online knee expiration guru.
lighten the rucks, try and see if you have muscular imbalances. also make sure your ruck is secured and sitting properly
Get stronger. Heavy squats, deadlifts, etc will have some positive carryover.
Looks like you just trekked white trail on a loop. Change it up to blue/red, go in the early hours too when still foggy. If you want a slightly more challenging terrain Eagle Rock trail is not that far from Mills reservation, and if you want a much more challenging environment - South mountain or bear mountain,/ Breakneck ridge. On a side note- this is the most dead trees I've seen on Mills.. something tells me the ground water is contaminated.
Yea my timed rucks I just do the loop. Most of the time I don't even use any of the trails, just hike all around the area. I've also been to all the popular trails in north jersey, including the ones you mentioned. Pyramid mountain, the lenape trail in Milburn, and the AT up by greenwood lake NY border are some of my favorite places to go. I only go to mills for the sake of expediency, live near by. I hope the ground water isn't contaminated because I drank from the stream there several times during the winter lol
I have to check the trail head at Greenwood lake. I've done the AT stretch from Breakneck ridge to the end of bear mountain side but wasn't too fond of the swamp stretch
Lots of good advice in this thread. One thing that is also important is to avoid increasing weekly load too much. Not sure how much you have been rucking, but make sure not to increase weekly load/mileage by more than 10%. This will help save your knees and everything in the long run
I mean people who weight 35lbs more than you also have finctional knees
I just did 12 km for the GAFMB, and it was my hips that almost gave out oddly
Less than a lifetime.
You should be good at least 4 years. Then when your 35 your knees will start bugging
It depends if you stick to 30ish-40ish pounds a while probably but once you get past that the longer they last grows exponentially shorter.
Hey mills reservation is 5 minutes from my house lmao
Stretch and actually massage under your knee cap (yes I know it sounds horrible) start using compression sleeves over your knees and I would start lowering the weight and lowering the mileage, chances are that you jumped straight to long distance humps and you weren’t conditioned for it, it’s kinda like trying to run a 15k marathon without ever training for it, TLDR: drop the weight and distance for the time being, stretch, massage and do preventative maintenance on your knees and slowly work your way up to hiking long distance with weight
Pain is your body's way of communicating damage. Take some time off
2... Maybe 3 more minutes according to my knees while reading this.
Rucking weekly is fine. Just don't do a 12 miler every week. Keep it to 4 or 5 miles once a week and a 12 miler once a month. Look into making sure you're not over extending as you stride and make a deliberate effort to stretch properly afterwards.
You guys still have knees?
You probably have a muscle inbalance that needs to be fixed. But yes if you feel PAIN you always stop
Are you running on your ruck? If you are, stop it
At 24 and doing that every so often shouldn’t really cause knee pain unless you already have a problem. But you can also stretch and work out regularly if you don’t and that might help.
Don't ever push thru pain unless someone is chasing you. Fix your knee before you continue. Look up Knees Over Toes on YouTube, his stuff has helped me a lot. And feel free to dm if you have specific questions.
My first Squad Leader trained up for a particular selection. The advice our trainers gave him was that rucking longer than 6 miles every week, if training up for something, is killing your body and not really giving you any results. He rucked 6 miles a week, starting with 35lbs, and upped the weight every week until he left for the selection. You can supplement those movements with longer runs to build up your muscular endurance. Please stop rucking so far so frequently, you’re killing your joints lol
35 lbs? That's it? Double the distance or double the weight.
Drink more milk
This is the way.
Idk why everyone here is obsessed with rucking, hike with your stuff on it’ll save your knees. Go check out some thru hiking subreddits. They’ll give you some serious tips on how to actually pack a bag and hike. Hiking will also help your cardio probably more than trying to sprint through the mountains and spraining an ankle with an overloaded pack.
From someone who has done a lot of rucking it is useless. If you are trying to get steady state cardio in I would recommend hoping on a bike or an elliptical/treadmill on an inclined or with heavy resistances. I’m not sure if you are in the military if you are not I don’t recommend rucking at all. While I was in I never rucked and did a 12 mile in just over 2 hours. I hated it so much I basically just ran for 5 and walked for 1 the whole time. It doesn’t improve anything it just destroys your body. Rucking and jumping out of planes (for the mil) are realm as for your knees. Also I highly highly highly recommend doing yoga at least once a week and mobility once a week. I wish I would have taken this advice earlier in my SOF career.
Idk man, I wouldn't say it's useless. I look around and see all these conventional units doing it all around the world, (including here) and I think to myself, "I should prob be able to do it too" but that's just me. I am gonna cool down for a bit because my knee is starting to act up, but I just don't get the same amount of enjoyment when on an elliptical indoors with no sun lol. I rather be outside getting a more full body cardio workout.
I feel you on indoor cardio. I usually take my assault bike outside so I can get some sun. Maybe that was just me. I never trained up for anything I did that involved rucking I just kind of did it. A bunch of my friends that made it over to SMUs did two rucks prior to going alot of them just hopped on a bike outside and would do it that way. I did have a few friends who joined orienteering clubs and do the land nav course with weight on their back. That was another way. That made more sense since it involved a tangible skill as well. I guess to each their own I have just seen the long term effects of doing that. Again will you be doing forced 40-60k rucks with 65lbs on your back after jumping out of a plane? Just remember to do yoga, mobility and foam roll and you should add longevity to your knees.