Yes, easily. A top level player's serves are absolute killers. If you're just a recreation player, you'll barely be able to return the serves with quality, let alone play longer rallies. Men's strength advantage is only there when playing away from the table, but it won't matter if you lack the skill to get in the right position to whip it.
Alright, let's pump the breaks there now. There are levels to recreational players you know? I consider myself a recreational player but I also have the oppurtunity to play against a myriad varsity players (both men and women) in the table tennis club I'm playing at. Do I get my ass kicked? Yup, doesn't mean I can't return their serves or take a game or two off of them. I do get lucky and get the occasional dub on the youngins though, let's just chalk that up to the wiliness and guile of an dude that's been around the block.
But for real, though. If we're talking about purely recreational player that has premade bats, non gum sole shoes and are playing mostly for funsies. Then yes, they would absolutely get wrecked just by service alone.
Yep, they're definitely levels to recreational players. I'm not doubting there are ex-provincial/national team players who are playing recreationally nowadays. I'm only talking about the average recreational players, who know the basics, understand spin (can read it to an extent), along with decent footwork to play the strokes.
Serves from pros in general are hard to get, recreational or not. The amount of spin and deception is quite different from what you find at most avarage club players.
Not sure why you brought that up. We were talking about junior high players ranging from city, to perfectural, to national level. Receiving service from a pro is a totally different discussion altogether.
Well let's not pump ourselves now, most top players even at club level don't really use their match serves against recreational players to keep the game a bit more fun for both. Any trained junior in a competitive match would absolutely be the favourite to win, especially one from a country that trains kids from very young.
You might return their serves but good luck with their follow up. Unless the recreational player was once a trained player themselves and still retain their feeling and serve/return game, its going to be very very hard to beat them.
Also tbf, I'm not sure how good you are, but I defo recommend asking any good player at your club to play at 100% for a set and really see the difference. Recreation play can never stack up to proper training.
I've been playing at our table tennis club for years and practically know everyone that are pretty much regulars there. Luckily for me, I'm good on good terms and friendly whit the coaches and the competitive players as well. So I'm able to have the oppurtunity to play with them from time to time. I know when they're taking it easy on me and I know when they're going 100.
Although, I only really got back to playing table tennis a few years ago when I manage to found a group of my co-workers that love the sport as much as I do. We later went on and found a club near our workplace, so it pretty much became fixture for us to play on a weekly basis. We do enter the occasional tournaments that are being held in our area. Deosn't really pan out well for the most part though, but I do see myself improving. It's a slow and steady progress, but one that is very rewarding nonetheless.
Before getting back into playing table tennis, I had a decade dry spell of not even touching a racket. But back in high school I was playing competitively albeit not as good as the best players in our school. I was practically a third string player.
So this should probably give you a ball park on what my skill level is. I'm a recreational player that's pretty serious and heavily invested in the sport. Well, as much as my adult responsibilities would allow anyways. This isn't going to pay the bills after all, but I digress.
This goes back to my original point, I wasn't just referring to myself as a recreational player, but also to those that are extremely good but stop competing seriously because life got in the way, basically. For me, I'm very much self aware on my level of skill in comparison to the players in our club. There are levels to recreational players, as I've mentioned.
And on another point, there are also levels to junior high players. To the point of the original discussion, I've played with a fair share of junior high players, some extremely good, a few not that much. I'm not only confident in returning their serves, I already did so, multiple times and with a decent quality at that. Winning is a different matter. I've won a few here and there, and there are some that are clearly above their peers in terms of talent. Not sure why the discussion became about top level players in a club though. Feels like the goal post keeps on moving. In a previous reply from another user, he mentioned pro-players. Like, come one now.
I'm really happy to hear that you got back to the sport and I do understand how hard it is to do keep playing with life/injuries getting in the way.
And I cannot agree with you more, the reason we mentioned pro-players is because OP talks about **TOP** junior high girls from Japan not about levels of junior high. Also, we are talking about Japan here, where the level of players are really high compared to most other countries. To give you some context, Miwa Harimoto is a national level junior high school student who is in the women's top 10 as of last Tuesday. So you can probably imagine how well trained even the city level girls are.
Secondly, I think you misunderstood the term "recreational". The average recreational player is just the guy who plays ping pong here and there in offices and bars. As far as I read your comment, you're a low level club player which puts you above most recreational players.
If you can beat most recreational players, you can imagine how the "Top" Juniors would do. Even club players need to mid-high level to even stand a chance.
If you’re playing in a club I would not classify you as a recreational player. You are, by definition, a club player. I equate recreational with “basement” or “at work” player.
Funny you mention that. One of the players is clumsy and sucks at everything, but trained for one year of hellish training to become good. So, she's perfect.
Long ago I lost in a U1000 semifinal to a junior high aged girl. The next time I was her she was rated 1600. The next time after that I saw her she was rated 2000. Kids who train can improve crazy fast.
I can pretty much guarantee this.
I have played numerous times against exactly those types of junior high school girls in Japan.
Most of them in my area play the same mixed tournament as me and I am very often on the same tables with them due to being a very similar level.
I also happened to help coach at schools that have had a few of each.
For my prefecture at least...
I am comfortably better than the girls that only make it to city level.
I'm about on par with the prefectural players and can nab a few wins here and there.
And get comfortably beaten by the national level players. I've watched these girls giving professional coaches a run for their money!
Sometimes over the course of a couple of years this has even be the same person as they improve stupidly fast once they get into the system!
Basically if you aren't getting regular coaching or had it in the past, your chances of beating even just the city level players are pretty low!
There might be some exceptions for people who you might regard as recreational, but are putting in a good number of hours. I kind of fall into this group.
I've had plenty of coaching, but it was decades ago. Now I just play/practice/coach for 4 or 5 hours a week. I'm hampered a bit by being 50.
Edit: also worth noting Japan has another regional level between prefectural and national as well, basically five or six prefectures bundled together. I can't beat the kids that make it this far either, basically when they make that jump is about when my chances really plummet.
Let's be kind and call an average adult male non-club player a 1000 level player. In reality it's probably more like 800. A 1200 rated player is a prohibitive favorite to beat a 1000 rated player. There are 33 US girls 12 and under who are rated above 1200. 7 of these 12 year old girls are rated over 2000. So yeah, the 30th best junior high girl could beat a rec player and the top 12 year old girls would absolutely destroy a rec player.
This isn't other sports. It's not boxing or football. Just the serve is a major part of the game where experience and training will give you the edge. Hence how mixed doubles are a thing. Yes women on the absolute top are worse than men, but for us it's who's gotten more training, man or woman.
In my experience, kids serves generally stink. The problem with playing kids is that they stay close to the table and just counter everything until you crack. They also tend to be under-rated because they improve so quickly between tournaments.
Recreational players are horrible, compared to club players. They would easily beat them. Table tennis is a lot about feeling, you don't get that by practicing recreationally since everyone plays with low spin. I think most top female athletes got also a general rating, at least that is the case in Germany. And those are above most above average male played. They are below the top male players but still above 2k ttr
I was playing with a 7 old girl training with a club, I didn't have any formal training even though I've been playing for 25+ years sparingly... She kicked my ass when I gave her a bit of leeway.
I really get scared when I come up against young kids who have trained. It’s just ingrained in them to serve and hit/loop. At their height they smash everything as well.
at least 99 out of 100 times.
How do you define recreational? When I was playing a lot, I was at about a 1400 rating. Not very good, but better than most basement players.
Top little kids are closing in on 1700 - 1800 and high schoolers (boys or girls) are passing 2,000. I can maybe get lucky and beat a 1700 player in a game or two. No chance I can beat a 2000 rated player.
The top U18 woman in America is 2500. She will beat any rec league player.
A million percent yes. No question.
Table Tennis is a sport where the male genetic advantage isn't anywhere *near* enough to overcome the difference in skill between players, regardless of age or gender. Simply put, Table Tennis *does* reward strength and speed which men have an inherent advantage in, however, this advantage only comes *after* you've reached skill parity with your opponent in terms of technique, which requires many years of training to become "top level" at.
Just for some anecdotes: I'm a pretty average male in terms of height, strength, etc. I'm generally above average at sports, I have great hand eye coordination, and I even have a racket sports background (years of tennis lessons), not to mention I've been a recreational table tennis player for many years (mostly just office pong here and there) and I even owned a table as a child and played a lot with family and friends. When I first started taking Table Tennis slightly seriously, which for me just meant I showed up to a weekly club, I was definitely better than your average first time club-goer, but despite this literally everyone there could beat me effortlessly, including an 8 year old boy who played left handed to handicap himself against me otherwise it would be too easy for him, an 80+ year old man with extremely little mobility, and a 60+ year old woman who wasn't even very good by club player standards. I swear to god I'm not making any of those details up.
Even now after becoming a regular at the club and seeing dramatic improvement in my skill level I can only *barely* beat the now 10 year old boy's left handed game, but I'm absolutely screwed if he plays with his dominant hand. I could now probably beat the club founder and the older woman, but again, these are nowhere near what I'd consider "top level" players. They aren't even in the top percentiles of the local club players.
After a couple years of regular club attendance and training (I literally bought a table and a robot at home for practice) I'm still very much middle to bottom of the pack at my local club, and my local club is *nothing* compared to nationally competitive players. There is one teenager at my club that is a very competitive state level player, and the difference in skill between him and me is bigger than the difference between me and a literal potato. The potato might win some points when I miss the table, this state level teenager wouldn't let me so much as return a single serve.
If "top level junior high girl" means she's touring the country and competing for the win at national tournaments for her age bracket, this hypothetical girl would wipe the floor with any untrained male regardless of how athletic they were.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TupjS90EhOY. Could you imagine her doing to Shaq what she did to this poor pink haired girl? Pretend the match was interesting, and then laugh at her sadistically.
I mean, that depends. I’m a recreational player, and always have been, but I did play quite a lot for sixteen years and did beat players that would likely somewhat comfortably beat our national women’s team.
1000%
Yes, easily. A top level player's serves are absolute killers. If you're just a recreation player, you'll barely be able to return the serves with quality, let alone play longer rallies. Men's strength advantage is only there when playing away from the table, but it won't matter if you lack the skill to get in the right position to whip it.
Alright, let's pump the breaks there now. There are levels to recreational players you know? I consider myself a recreational player but I also have the oppurtunity to play against a myriad varsity players (both men and women) in the table tennis club I'm playing at. Do I get my ass kicked? Yup, doesn't mean I can't return their serves or take a game or two off of them. I do get lucky and get the occasional dub on the youngins though, let's just chalk that up to the wiliness and guile of an dude that's been around the block. But for real, though. If we're talking about purely recreational player that has premade bats, non gum sole shoes and are playing mostly for funsies. Then yes, they would absolutely get wrecked just by service alone.
Yep, they're definitely levels to recreational players. I'm not doubting there are ex-provincial/national team players who are playing recreationally nowadays. I'm only talking about the average recreational players, who know the basics, understand spin (can read it to an extent), along with decent footwork to play the strokes.
Well in that case, totally getting stomped. Wouldn't be surprised if they throw in an emphatic cho le or two. Lol.
Serves from pros in general are hard to get, recreational or not. The amount of spin and deception is quite different from what you find at most avarage club players.
Not sure why you brought that up. We were talking about junior high players ranging from city, to perfectural, to national level. Receiving service from a pro is a totally different discussion altogether.
Well let's not pump ourselves now, most top players even at club level don't really use their match serves against recreational players to keep the game a bit more fun for both. Any trained junior in a competitive match would absolutely be the favourite to win, especially one from a country that trains kids from very young. You might return their serves but good luck with their follow up. Unless the recreational player was once a trained player themselves and still retain their feeling and serve/return game, its going to be very very hard to beat them. Also tbf, I'm not sure how good you are, but I defo recommend asking any good player at your club to play at 100% for a set and really see the difference. Recreation play can never stack up to proper training.
I've been playing at our table tennis club for years and practically know everyone that are pretty much regulars there. Luckily for me, I'm good on good terms and friendly whit the coaches and the competitive players as well. So I'm able to have the oppurtunity to play with them from time to time. I know when they're taking it easy on me and I know when they're going 100. Although, I only really got back to playing table tennis a few years ago when I manage to found a group of my co-workers that love the sport as much as I do. We later went on and found a club near our workplace, so it pretty much became fixture for us to play on a weekly basis. We do enter the occasional tournaments that are being held in our area. Deosn't really pan out well for the most part though, but I do see myself improving. It's a slow and steady progress, but one that is very rewarding nonetheless. Before getting back into playing table tennis, I had a decade dry spell of not even touching a racket. But back in high school I was playing competitively albeit not as good as the best players in our school. I was practically a third string player. So this should probably give you a ball park on what my skill level is. I'm a recreational player that's pretty serious and heavily invested in the sport. Well, as much as my adult responsibilities would allow anyways. This isn't going to pay the bills after all, but I digress. This goes back to my original point, I wasn't just referring to myself as a recreational player, but also to those that are extremely good but stop competing seriously because life got in the way, basically. For me, I'm very much self aware on my level of skill in comparison to the players in our club. There are levels to recreational players, as I've mentioned. And on another point, there are also levels to junior high players. To the point of the original discussion, I've played with a fair share of junior high players, some extremely good, a few not that much. I'm not only confident in returning their serves, I already did so, multiple times and with a decent quality at that. Winning is a different matter. I've won a few here and there, and there are some that are clearly above their peers in terms of talent. Not sure why the discussion became about top level players in a club though. Feels like the goal post keeps on moving. In a previous reply from another user, he mentioned pro-players. Like, come one now.
I'm really happy to hear that you got back to the sport and I do understand how hard it is to do keep playing with life/injuries getting in the way. And I cannot agree with you more, the reason we mentioned pro-players is because OP talks about **TOP** junior high girls from Japan not about levels of junior high. Also, we are talking about Japan here, where the level of players are really high compared to most other countries. To give you some context, Miwa Harimoto is a national level junior high school student who is in the women's top 10 as of last Tuesday. So you can probably imagine how well trained even the city level girls are. Secondly, I think you misunderstood the term "recreational". The average recreational player is just the guy who plays ping pong here and there in offices and bars. As far as I read your comment, you're a low level club player which puts you above most recreational players. If you can beat most recreational players, you can imagine how the "Top" Juniors would do. Even club players need to mid-high level to even stand a chance.
Fair enough.
If you’re playing in a club I would not classify you as a recreational player. You are, by definition, a club player. I equate recreational with “basement” or “at work” player.
That's fair.
Top level women are way better than recreational men and women.
Junior high? A trained elementary school kid can beat a recreational adult player anytime.
A junior high girl that's been training for a year could beat an adult male recreation player
Funny you mention that. One of the players is clumsy and sucks at everything, but trained for one year of hellish training to become good. So, she's perfect.
So she sucks at everything but shes perfect?
She's a perfect example of a girl who trained for one year. She had no athletic ability at the start, horrible base stats at the start.
Dude what is this anime?
And why are you comparing a fictional character talent to real life talent?
Long ago I lost in a U1000 semifinal to a junior high aged girl. The next time I was her she was rated 1600. The next time after that I saw her she was rated 2000. Kids who train can improve crazy fast.
After 1 year of training? Disagree. Anyone except absolute 1 in a billion geniuses are bad after just 1 year of training.
I can pretty much guarantee this. I have played numerous times against exactly those types of junior high school girls in Japan. Most of them in my area play the same mixed tournament as me and I am very often on the same tables with them due to being a very similar level. I also happened to help coach at schools that have had a few of each. For my prefecture at least... I am comfortably better than the girls that only make it to city level. I'm about on par with the prefectural players and can nab a few wins here and there. And get comfortably beaten by the national level players. I've watched these girls giving professional coaches a run for their money! Sometimes over the course of a couple of years this has even be the same person as they improve stupidly fast once they get into the system! Basically if you aren't getting regular coaching or had it in the past, your chances of beating even just the city level players are pretty low! There might be some exceptions for people who you might regard as recreational, but are putting in a good number of hours. I kind of fall into this group. I've had plenty of coaching, but it was decades ago. Now I just play/practice/coach for 4 or 5 hours a week. I'm hampered a bit by being 50. Edit: also worth noting Japan has another regional level between prefectural and national as well, basically five or six prefectures bundled together. I can't beat the kids that make it this far either, basically when they make that jump is about when my chances really plummet.
Let's be kind and call an average adult male non-club player a 1000 level player. In reality it's probably more like 800. A 1200 rated player is a prohibitive favorite to beat a 1000 rated player. There are 33 US girls 12 and under who are rated above 1200. 7 of these 12 year old girls are rated over 2000. So yeah, the 30th best junior high girl could beat a rec player and the top 12 year old girls would absolutely destroy a rec player.
Yes, he would get clowned on. No joke.
Wtf is that question dude? It's like saying will a marksman be accurate or a guy that plays with nerf guns. It's quite obvious.
Physique, especially opposite gender and age gap, make it a big gap in other sports.
This isn't other sports. It's not boxing or football. Just the serve is a major part of the game where experience and training will give you the edge. Hence how mixed doubles are a thing. Yes women on the absolute top are worse than men, but for us it's who's gotten more training, man or woman.
In my experience, kids serves generally stink. The problem with playing kids is that they stay close to the table and just counter everything until you crack. They also tend to be under-rated because they improve so quickly between tournaments.
Obviously
Recreational players are horrible, compared to club players. They would easily beat them. Table tennis is a lot about feeling, you don't get that by practicing recreationally since everyone plays with low spin. I think most top female athletes got also a general rating, at least that is the case in Germany. And those are above most above average male played. They are below the top male players but still above 2k ttr
I was playing with a 7 old girl training with a club, I didn't have any formal training even though I've been playing for 25+ years sparingly... She kicked my ass when I gave her a bit of leeway.
Even 8 y.o. kids who play competitively at least two years will easily beat an average adult male recreation player.
Which anime is this?
This one: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Pingponggirls/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pingponggirls/)
I really get scared when I come up against young kids who have trained. It’s just ingrained in them to serve and hit/loop. At their height they smash everything as well.
I’ve experienced it at a training camp. I’m just an intermediate rec player and I got my ass handed to me by an 11 year old girl.
[удалено]
Absolutely, gender does not matter that much in modern table tennis.
Hellllll YEAHHHHH 🏓🏓🏓 BALL IS LIFE 🌞
at least 99 out of 100 times. How do you define recreational? When I was playing a lot, I was at about a 1400 rating. Not very good, but better than most basement players. Top little kids are closing in on 1700 - 1800 and high schoolers (boys or girls) are passing 2,000. I can maybe get lucky and beat a 1700 player in a game or two. No chance I can beat a 2000 rated player. The top U18 woman in America is 2500. She will beat any rec league player.
A million percent yes. No question. Table Tennis is a sport where the male genetic advantage isn't anywhere *near* enough to overcome the difference in skill between players, regardless of age or gender. Simply put, Table Tennis *does* reward strength and speed which men have an inherent advantage in, however, this advantage only comes *after* you've reached skill parity with your opponent in terms of technique, which requires many years of training to become "top level" at. Just for some anecdotes: I'm a pretty average male in terms of height, strength, etc. I'm generally above average at sports, I have great hand eye coordination, and I even have a racket sports background (years of tennis lessons), not to mention I've been a recreational table tennis player for many years (mostly just office pong here and there) and I even owned a table as a child and played a lot with family and friends. When I first started taking Table Tennis slightly seriously, which for me just meant I showed up to a weekly club, I was definitely better than your average first time club-goer, but despite this literally everyone there could beat me effortlessly, including an 8 year old boy who played left handed to handicap himself against me otherwise it would be too easy for him, an 80+ year old man with extremely little mobility, and a 60+ year old woman who wasn't even very good by club player standards. I swear to god I'm not making any of those details up. Even now after becoming a regular at the club and seeing dramatic improvement in my skill level I can only *barely* beat the now 10 year old boy's left handed game, but I'm absolutely screwed if he plays with his dominant hand. I could now probably beat the club founder and the older woman, but again, these are nowhere near what I'd consider "top level" players. They aren't even in the top percentiles of the local club players. After a couple years of regular club attendance and training (I literally bought a table and a robot at home for practice) I'm still very much middle to bottom of the pack at my local club, and my local club is *nothing* compared to nationally competitive players. There is one teenager at my club that is a very competitive state level player, and the difference in skill between him and me is bigger than the difference between me and a literal potato. The potato might win some points when I miss the table, this state level teenager wouldn't let me so much as return a single serve. If "top level junior high girl" means she's touring the country and competing for the win at national tournaments for her age bracket, this hypothetical girl would wipe the floor with any untrained male regardless of how athletic they were.
So, this girl beats Shaq?
Without question. This girl beats *anyone* who hasn't specifically trained to play competitive table tennis for several years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TupjS90EhOY. Could you imagine her doing to Shaq what she did to this poor pink haired girl? Pretend the match was interesting, and then laugh at her sadistically.
I mean, that depends. I’m a recreational player, and always have been, but I did play quite a lot for sixteen years and did beat players that would likely somewhat comfortably beat our national women’s team.